Author Topic: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?  (Read 5827 times)

the_fixer

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Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« on: May 11, 2017, 02:50:47 PM »
The wife's mountain bike is in need of new tires and a few friends / bike shops have mentioned she should go with a tubeless setup.

Her friends are spendy pants and the bike shops are out to sell something so I do not trust either 100%

The bike is a specialized stumpjumper 29er with tubless ready rims so my understanding is that she would only need to buy the tubeless tires and the liquid stuff to go into them. She is a bike nut and rides it everyday and puts lots of miles on it MTB trails only.

Most of the benefits that people proclaim on the MTB sites would not really apply since she rides pretty easy trails but getting less flats would be a really nice upside as she get a few flats a month.

I am concerned about the effort / maintenance. I do not mind spending a little extra to get less flats but not if it is going to be messy and a hassle.

Would appreciate the opinion of the MMM crowd if they are worth it

big_slacker

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 06:01:11 PM »
Wait, they still make tubes for MTB?

Yes, she should convert to tubeless. Less pinch flats, lower PSI (bigger contact patch) and self sealing small punctures. You can still bring a tube in case of a sidewall tear or MASSIVE puncture.

Only downside would be seating the bead. Compressor works best. You CAN seat with a hand pump but be prepared for a battle.

This being MMM someone will be along shortly to disagree with me, but they're wrong. ;)

FWIW she rides easy but gets a few flats a MONTH? Sounds like she's either riding through bramble patches or running too low a PSI in her tubes? Even tubed that's a LOT of flats.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 06:05:23 PM by big_slacker »

iseemoneey

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 09:23:41 PM »
I highly recommend tubeless for mountain bikes. Look up "ghetto tubeless" or "split tube method".  It'll cost about $10 a tire and it takes some work getting set up initially but you get a VERY puncture resistant tire. I bike commute to work full time and haven't received a puncture in the 7 months I've been riding tubeless.  Do a search of your tire model in Google ie "schwalbe big Apple tubeless" to see out other people have done it successfully. Some tires have issues with the sidewall leaking, making it very difficult to hold pressure.

GhostSaver

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 09:36:35 PM »
On a tubeless-ready wheel, you only need the valves and the sealant. The vast majority of modern tires will be tubeless-ready. The valves are a bit over-priced, but only need to be purchased once for the wheels. The sealant is definitely over-priced. Some enthusiasts make their own home brew sealant with latex and glitter, but that only makes sense to me if you're going through several sets of tires per year. Otherwise, it's $5-10 in commercial sealant per year (it dries out eventually). You're almost certainly coming out ahead in both money and convenience if she is going through so many tubes.

It's not impossible to flat with a proper tubeless setup, but it generally requires flogging the bike near its performance limit to do so.

BiggerFishToFI

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 10:09:35 PM »
Definitely worth it. Lower rotational weight and I have only had 1-2 flats in the past 4 years since switching.

the_fixer

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 10:49:09 PM »
Not experiencing pinch flats or anything like that and she does not air down for the trails she is riding at this point. We do get stickers in the area and that is the reason for most flats and I am sure the tires having little tread on them is a contributing factor.

By easy trails I meant that they are not that technical, no big drops, baby head sections or stuff like that but they can be long and steep. 

This one is right out our back door and a typical morning ride prior to going to work.
https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/255931

Weekends are typically something more like this
https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/2083426

Guess I am just a little gun shy based on experiences we had with her road bikes, her fancy carbon fiber Orbea eats expensive parts like crazy and her aluminium Cannondale R500 is rock solid and rarely needs parts even after 16 years and ~80k miles   

Great feedback so far I really appreciate it!

Blatant

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 12:08:40 AM »
Yes, tubeless. I didn't know anyone still used tubes except in an emergency.

Ocelot

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 06:34:15 AM »
You don't need to be a hardcore rider to get the benefits of tubeless, and you already have all the expensive stuff already, your bike should have come with the valves even. It works out a similar price to replacing a couple of tubes a year, pretty cost effective. As already stated, seating the first time is much easier with a compressor and some tyres won't seat at all without one, but otherwise it's dead easy.
Are you getting new tyres or converting her already used ones? I ask because a tyre that has already been used with tubes with generally seat more easily, but sometimes will have picked up small holes in the casing that will make the initial seal more difficult. No big deal though, worst case scenario if it doesn't hold you can just throw a tube back in until it's new tyre time. (Edit: Just saw you were looking at new tyres)
Be aware also that generally tubeless setups lose air more quickly, ie you will definitely want to be checking pressure before each ride. Again, not a big deal, and there's no way I would go back to tubes. Probably the biggest advancement in mountainbike tech in the last 15 years an it's such a simple thing!

If you really feel that the bike shop is "just out to sell you something" you need a better bike shop. I've worked in shops for 20 years and although there definitely is that attitude in many shops, particularly the larger high-volume places, good shops will not tolerate a salesperson like that and they get weeded out very quickly as our reputation is on the line. You might pay a little bit more at a good place - because we don't shift the sheer number of units that the huge shops do - but the genuine advice we can offer is well worth it. I won't try and sell you a $500 part without letting you know about the $50 option too, and if the $50 part is actually a better choice for you I'll recommend it over the $500 one.

I get very frustrated when I see customers ignore my advice because they inherently mistrust anyone in a shop, and then it goes on to cost them more money or hassle/problems they could have avoided. It happens a lot, and it doesn't need to.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 06:54:28 AM by Ocelot »

spokey doke

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 09:55:54 AM »
another one for going tubeless...with tubeless ready tires (they seat better and so easier to air up).

But do carry an appropriate tube in your kit.

Depending on where you live and the temp and humidity...the liquid sealant can dry up pretty quickly, so you have to add more...eventually it can and big globs, which can get big enough to feel (as if your wheel is out of round).  Not a big deal, just unseat a bead and pull it out...or take the tire off and generally peel off the boogers, mount it and add sealant and air up.

I also sometimes bring a small rag in my repair kit, just to deal with the mess that sealant can create...again, no big harm, but something to get used to.

The White Coat Investor

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 11:21:27 PM »
I'm running tubeless.

Still trying to decide if it is worth it for me. The more you ride the more it is worth it. If you only ride once a month, you're going to be replacing sealant every 3rd or 4th ride. If you ride every day, it's a no brainer.

the_fixer

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 08:19:22 AM »
She rides 6 - 7 days a week in the spring, summer and fall but in the winter there are weeks and possibly an entire month where the bike is hanging on the wall due to snow and trail closures.

Air in the tires and shocks is checked and adjusted prior to each ride so that is not a big deal.

Adding sealant often would be a concern or having to take the tire off frequently to maintain stuff would also be a hassle.




 

Financial Ascensionist

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2017, 05:59:26 PM »
I think it really depends what kind of flat you are getting.  If it's mostly pinch flats, tubeless is probably the best option, but if it's thorns and glass shards, a set of Mr Tuffy tire liners is probably all what you need.

Blissful Biker

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 06:30:34 PM »
I have ridden tubeless for about 10 years.  I take good care of the wheels and have never had a flat.  Never, in 10 years.  I still  carry an extra tube and pump, but as I type this I am questioning why. 

Go tubeless.  You wont regret it.

triangle

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2017, 05:16:18 AM »
I cannot contribute to this mountain bike tire thread directly, except to note that the overall discussion sounds much like the tubes vs no-tubes discussion regarding automobile tires decades ago. As far as I know nearly all modern vehicles use tubeless tires to avoid problems with tubes as pointed out in this thread. I remember as a child traveling in my uncles old truck which got a flat tire due to the tube getting pinched while driving with a heavy load across the face of a hillside. Apparently tubeless tire designs allow for a tighter rim-to-tire-bead contact which helps keep everything sealed and inflated under load.

powskier

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2017, 12:42:20 AM »
Tubeless is great.
A few things to note:
 I have used "non tubeless ready" tires and installed them just fine on tubeless ready rims, it takes a little finesse and a few tricks( time and experience, may be frustrating otherwise) but can be done. So you may be able to go tubeless without buying new tires.

I have ridden well over 5000 miles of trails and gravel in the past year with zero flats. when I switch to my studded tires for winter I can see where i would have had a flat but it was sealed up by the sealant.

Some people are making their own sealant to save money, personally I don't think it's worth it but depending on your mustache you may want to.

You will need to add sealant maybe once a year or every 6 months depending on the climate you live in and amount of protection you need.

For tire/trail interface and hassle free factor once set up it is a game changer.

BlueMR2

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Re: Tubeless MTB tires worth the expense / effort?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2017, 05:26:50 PM »
Personally, I'd just go with whatever is cheaper.  Tubeless sounds good, and I do fine with tubeless car tires.  :-)  However, my MTB is still running tubes and that works fine too...  I've never had a flat on my MTB and it's been through some pretty serious abuse over the 31 years I've owned it.