Traveling vs Saving, balancing the two aspects?

[ananddrox]

Hi,

I am 27 years old now. I try to save but do spend on some things (camera gear, travel, etc) which might be luxurious to the mustachian way of things. Not sure if there is a name for such a person who tries to be in the middle of both worlds, or inclined towards mustachian way but splurges for certain stuff. Now, my problem.

When summer comes, I am excited towards what experiences that traveling and going somewhere will bring me. Plus it might be better to do some things (say skydiving, scuba diving, hiking a mountain) at this phase of my life when I can actually have the energy, money and adventurous spirit. No, I am not saying people lose the energy, money or the adventurous spirit when they get older, I just fear that I might lose them when I get older especially when I think about a family, children, and commitments. Also health might be a factor. The travel and amazing trips are good for experience, but bad for the bank accounts, MONEY drains. So, I am torn when I think like a mustachian. I also want to save more at this stage of my life so that I could move faster towards FIRE. But that also means the experience and enjoyment is going to be different and definitely at a later phase of life when I personally would be older than my younger self now.

How does this community balance between these two aspects? Traveling in your early days vs saving in your early days to travel at a later phase of life? Some of both?

[Zikoris]

It seems to me like if you make at least average income and otherwise have low expenses, you should be able to do pretty much as much travel as you want/is feasible given other limitations(work policy, etc) and still save a huge amount of money, no "balance" required. Let's say, average income = 60% savings rate + 1 total money pit hobby, maybe 2 if you're doing everything else perfectly. If you make average income and can't afford to both save 60% and also travel as much as you want, you've got another money pit somewhere, so get rid of that and you'll be fine.

We've only ever made average income or less, and have never had difficulty both saving 65-70% and also travelling to five or six countries a year, for many years now.

I feel like most questions people post here really come down to "post your income and spending and the solution will be obvious".

[dodojojo]

I'm in my mid-40's and I regret not traveling as much as I could in my 20's and 30's.  You can't buy time.  I just returned from hiking the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu and while I'm glad I finally did it--I think it was a trip that would have suited me better 15-20 years ago.

Live frugally in daily life and travel on a budget (but don't be so cheap as to make it miserable) when you can.  I don't 'vacation' travel much because I live far away from my family so most of my time off work is spent visiting them.  But I'm going to make more of effort to be selfish and do more vacation traveling.  I want to do the active traveling I like while I'm still in the physical shape to enjoy it.

[mtnmills]

Once you get a little passive income and/or find a way to make money online, I highly recommend leaving the country.  When you go places where people live on $300 a month, it is easy not to spend. Plus, all the activities you have listed are much less expensive to do. 

Our family has been traveling around Mexico for the past 5 months and it has been life changing.  However, we were in the position to do so. We built our own house, which we rented out and saved for 13 years while living in Tahoe where we enjoyed skiing, mtn biking, climbing, etc.  We bought equipment at garage sales. we saved as much as we could until our passive income allowed us to stop working.  We could rent out our house on Air B&B while we flew to cheaper places like Thailand for a month and actually made a few bucks once the trip was over.  So its possible to have fun and travel in your 30s while saving.  Now that we are 39 and 42, we get to travel the world full time with our dog and 12 year old and dog.   

Here are a couple of examples of friends that also made it to FI.

A 23 year old guy at work got his start by buying a 3 bedroom house and renting out some of the rooms.  At one point he basically camped in the shed while all 3 rooms were rented out. He still did all the outdoor stuff, but had no rent to com home to. Now he owns multiple houses in many places.  Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

I have another friend who bought houses in Reno for $40k-$80k during the downturn.  Took 9% hard money loans to buy houses at auction, then immediately converted the loans to low interest 30 year loans.  Mind you these are normally $100,000 houses that needed a little work but now bring in $1,300 a month. Now he can hire a property manager or sell them for full price to move into an investment with less work involved.  This all happened in 8 years and from starting with nothing but a good idea an other people's money.  Was it easy?  Nope, but he did it.  Now he plans on joining us on the road with his family.

Once we left the US you don't have "vanlife" it.  The perfect situation is a midsize truck with camper.  You can camp in the beach or lakes for free or a couple of bucks, or pay $200-$500 a month for a nice apartment or house.  Food here is cheap.  Medical here is good and also inexpensive.  I don't see us ever returning to the states except to visit family.

[LifeHappens]

Travel doesn't have to be expensive. If you are in the US, there are many opportunities to travel hack through the strategic use of credit cards and miles and points programs. The Travel Miles 101 course is often recommended as a way to get started.

[GuitarStv]

Stop destroying the world with your travels, save yourself a ton of money, get into great shape, eat whatever you want.  Experience different places by bike touring from your front door.

[HBFIRE]

Reduce your expenses by credit card churning/selling tradelines and starting a side business where you can write off some of the expenses (perhaps a travel VLOG).  Travel can be quite inexpensive if you optimize it.

[Annie101]

We have been saving up for a one year travel sabbatical for years.  We don't plan to be extravagant but we do plan to go to many countries and will spend a chunk of cash.  I guess I'm not really mustachian.  I want to spend money intentionally and get living expenses low so that I have career options.  I also work 80% to have a better work life balance.  It's about maximizing my time/happiness both now and later. 

[CheapScholar]

Stop destroying the world with your travels, save yourself a ton of money, get into great shape, eat whatever you want.  Experience different places by bike touring from your front door.

I mostly agree with this.  Not saying all travel is bad and that you can’t splurge and take a trip to a different continent once in a while or trek across the country to see a place you really want to see.

27 is still pretty young.  See what you want to see and do what you want within reason.  Now that I’m 38 and have a child I’d rather not travel far every summer.  It can be such a hassle.  I don’t bike from my front door but I’m lucky to live near the MI west coast and have nice beaches and hiking (at least during the warm months) within a 40 minute drive.

My advice - as you get older, learn to love where you live.  If you can’t make yourself do that maybe move.

[Junco]

Just got back from a 10-day vacation so I was thinking about this too. The way I look at it, I'm working towards early retirement so I can essentially live like I'm on a vacation whenever I want, so why should I not be enjoying my scarce vacation days available to me now while working full time (and when I crave vacation more)? This may mean spending more than I normally do, but if I spend extra on 3 weeks of vacation a year and save a lot on 49 weeks a year, it won't slow down my savings too much, especially if I maximize credit card travel rewards and do cheaper travel/vacations (e.g., backpacking, going to Mexico instead of Europe, etc). I'm 31 now and spend several years off and on travelling in my 20's. I would be further along my FI journey if I got serious about it earlier on and stayed the course, but those travels were the best times of my life and I don't know who I would be without having done them.

[Metalcat]

Well, first, you need to learn that Mustachianism isn't about not spending, it's about not wasting money.
Money isn't anything in and of itself, it is merely a placeholder for time and energy, and only you can define for yourself the value of the trade offs between them.

Only you can decide what the value of travel is and how that compares to the time and energy you will have to commit to work in order to trade for those travel experiences.

What are your goals, what makes you happy, what kind of life do you want???

Spend some time here reading and you will very very quickly find that this is not at all a community of deprived, extremely low spend young people aiming to FIRE in their 30s.

We're mostly people looking to find balance and figuring out how to spend in a way that we're truly happy with by questioning every assumption about spending that we've ever had because those assumptions are based on social norms that are designed to promote abundant over spending.

Yep. Pretty much everything in your subconscious regarding your career and your spending is working against you. It's a bit freaky when you realize it.

For you, I would challenge your assumptions about travel. Have you thoroughly examined options for less expensive travel? Have you explored your own region? Have you looked into house/pet sitting options? Volunteering trips? Have you considered a major life change and instead of traveling, consider moving somewhere new for a time?

What do you even get from travel? Why is it rewarding to you? Have you ever questioned what is missing from your life that makes you crave travel so much, and is travel actually the best way to fulfill that unmet need?

Mustachianism isn't about spending as little as humanly possible. As you fall down the rabbit hole, you will realize that it's about deep, critical self reflection...at least it is if you want to get anything of real value out of it.

[MrThatsDifferent]

Travel! See the world, and expand your experiences of people and culture. You’re traveling won’t destroy the world, it will enhance who you are and open you up. I think it’s especially great to do while you’re young. You can still be mustachian and travel, it just means more planning, flexibility and not making it an Instagram focused adventure. There are so many places where you can stretch your money and you can stay in hostels or better yet, check out couchsurfing dot org. Eat like the locals, explore the beaten path, move outside your comfort zone. While you’re doing that, save money in other areas, have an investment plan that you stick with, give yourself a travel budget and stay within. The world is there to be explored, be unafraid.

[Rosy]

Wow, Malkynn you outdid yourself with your post:)

OP asked:

How does this community balance between these two aspects? Traveling in your early days vs saving in your early days to travel at a later phase of life? Some of both?

The answer is as individual as we all are. Balance is key, but there are many ways to balance your life goals and your passion for travel and adventure. The world is your oyster and leaning toward a MMM style of life does not preclude you from anything. It does require that you question everything, find creative or out of the box solutions, you will need to learn to optimize and examine your life and yourself. Then go for what you really want the most in your life,  which by the way will continue to change.

You mentioned skydiving and adventure ...
If you like sky diving you know that it is an expensive hobby but I've been told more than once that the rush is better than sex:)
All the men in our extended family took up sky diving for sport, (my DH learned parachuting out of a helicopter when he was a door gunner in Vietnam), but most quit once they married, since wives generally aren't crazy about their husbands jumping out of perfectly good airplanes especially when there is a baby on the way:).
One of the many ways my DH made his hobby profitable was by creating a team, calling themselves the Bronze Dragons who did exhibition jumps with colored smoke bombs and such at events in the area and across the US.

We have a good friend who is an IT guy for a big corp. One of his interests involved taking videography classes which slowly landed him boring but well-paid company gigs at work (meetings-conferences etc). They hired him as a freelancer and over the years he parlayed it into working the NFL games for the Atlanta Falcons and working gigs all over town, building a solid client base.

The last few years he's revved up his traveling, to Peru with amazing shamanistic experiences, then Cuba which he fell in love with and Lebanon. Now he is 57 and retiring at the end of the year.
He returned to Cuba several times and two weeks ago he set up a Pro photoshoot in the slums as he is experimenting more with Photography and actually selling some of his work. Yeah, well, I'm sure that is not everyone's cup of tea:). He paid $15 to each model which he was told is the going rate.
He's an ex-marine who easily made friends with several locals, always using the same cab driver, staying at the same B&B and getting to know the families and day-to-day life up close.

He is the sort of fellow who is generous if he sees a need but isn't interested in staying at the local tourist-trap. Not just because he is frugal by nature, but because he is genuinely interested in getting to know the land and the people.
He is also a foodie, so yeah the local food exploration is always on his list.
Curiosity and a desire to try new things are what drives him.

Malkynn made a good point about examining the reasons for your desire to travel. What is the most exciting, interesting, stimulating part of your travels for you?
Taking a class about medicinal herbs in a medieval castle in Germany was awesome - no skydiving for me:)
Trapsing up that hill like a mountain goat showed me just how out of shape I had become. Huffing and puffing the last few hundred meters, wishing I'd sprung for that cog railway instead:).

I traveled plenty in my youth. I doubt you'll ever hear anyone say, "I wish I hadn't traveled so much while I was young". What you will hear is, "I wish I hadn't been so frivolous and thoughtless with my money".
My two-month long bucket list trip to Europe last year was a fabulous experience, meeting up with my two old friends felt so good.

But, here is a wake-up call for you - at 69 I still had to make a decision between travel or saving. I chose travel:) and I'm happy I did.

Turns out I got lucky and will meet my last MMM inspired savings goal this year at age 70. Not going to elaborate, let's just say I've led a turbulent life:).  It feels strange to know that I have as much monthly income as if I had $1M in the bank pulling the famous 4%.
Thanks to MMM I sorted out my financial life. I now have a nice cash cushion, am debt-free plus I already had good health insurance guaranteed for life.
Life is good and I am blessed with having a Mr. R. in my life. I officially retired at 66, he plans to retire at 62 in a few more years. Who knows, he may even reach that often discussed $1M in his own investments by then.

So take heart - I'll say the most hated words in MMM land, if I can do it - you certainly can:).

You may not be able to do everything you want, really who can? If you don't have enough income to do both, travel and save, then all you have to do is find ways to travel anyway. If you really want something you make it happen. 
You received plenty of good tips in this thread.
BON VOAGE!
 

[Metalcat]

Wow, Malkynn you outdid yourself with your post:)

I get all philosophical when I'm having complicated days.

[FIREstache]

Stop destroying the world with your travels, save yourself a ton of money, get into great shape, eat whatever you want.  Experience different places by bike touring from your front door.

I mostly agree with this.  Not saying all travel is bad and that you can’t splurge and take a trip to a different continent once in a while or trek across the country to see a place you really want to see.

27 is still pretty young.  See what you want to see and do what you want within reason.  Now that I’m 38 and have a child I’d rather not travel far every summer.  It can be such a hassle.  I don’t bike from my front door but I’m lucky to live near the MI west coast and have nice beaches and hiking (at least during the warm months) within a 40 minute drive.

My advice - as you get older, learn to love where you live.  If you can’t make yourself do that maybe move.

Agreed.  I've always been one not to travel - never had much desire to, I'm always looking forward to get back home when I have to leave town, and I do a lot of biking and activities with a low environmental impact.  I don't need to travel for those things.

After I FIRE, I plan to do a little traveling, but more of a slow paced travel and not flying out of the country.  I'm happy in the USA, and there's plenty to see here.

[undercover]

Stop destroying the world with your travels, save yourself a ton of money, get into great shape, eat whatever you want.  Experience different places by bike touring from your front door.

I mostly agree with this.  Not saying all travel is bad and that you can’t splurge and take a trip to a different continent once in a while or trek across the country to see a place you really want to see.

27 is still pretty young.  See what you want to see and do what you want within reason.  Now that I’m 38 and have a child I’d rather not travel far every summer.  It can be such a hassle.  I don’t bike from my front door but I’m lucky to live near the MI west coast and have nice beaches and hiking (at least during the warm months) within a 40 minute drive.

My advice - as you get older, learn to love where you live.  If you can’t make yourself do that maybe move.

Agreed.  I've always been one not to travel - never had much desire to, I'm always looking forward to get back home when I have to leave town, and I do a lot of biking and activities with a low environmental impact.  I don't need to travel for those things.

After I FIRE, I plan to do a little traveling, but more of a slow paced travel and not flying out of the country.  I'm happy in the USA, and there's plenty to see here.

I'm 29, have been able to be anywhere in the world basically for the past four years yet have mostly stayed at home. I've been on several domestic week long trips (probably ten) in that time, but other than that, nothing international. As much as I do enjoy new environments and seeing things I've never seen, it's ultimately a novelty for me. I always feel like I could be doing something more productive or dread the trip back when I'm out.

I regret nothing. I like being home. There's so much to do. Things are easier and more predictable. I will travel in when the time is right but do not feel like I've missed out in any way shape or form. Travel is something you will always enjoy when the time is right.

I guess one of my issues is that it's really hard to make meaningful connections with people if you're always bouncing around. There's something dreamy about the anonymity and ephemeral connections you do make, but it's (usually, not always) short lived.

Plus, finding where you're going to stay, arranging your items, then figuring out groceries or eating is fun at times but is mostly a hassle. It's nice knowing where everything is and having things how you like them.

I also do find that most travel involves, at least a little bit, running away from something and hoping to find something you feel you're lacking. Not saying all, but there's no denying people have the natural feeling to want to "get away".

I much prefer road trips within 3-4 hours if possible than flying or longer highway trips.

Also, this is worth a watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kETN114A4IE

[Laura33]

All you can do is recognize that it is a balance, make the best call that you can, and adjust as necessary.  Just don't fool yourself into justifying a series of "treats" or "experiences" to the point that you build your lifestyle around a level of spending that won't get you where you want to be financially.  Life is always an "or," not an "and"; if you want to travel more, you might need to spend less on other luxuries, like camera gear.

I recommend starting here:  https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement.  When do you want to FIRE?  How much do you need to save to make that deadline?  How does that mesh with your current lifestyle, with and without various luxuries and extras?  Not to mention:  how much do you like your job, and how likely is it that you will be able to hang onto that job through your target date?  Use all of that to set up a spending plan that balances your lifestyle today against your future freedom.  Live that for a while, review, and adjust.

The one thing I would suggest is to stop thinking of future you as some sort of different, less capable person.  Maybe you'll partner up, have kids, travel less, etc. -- but all of those are choices.  If you like to travel now, you will very likely probably like to travel then as well; having kids doesn't automatically turn you into a homebody, or make you less interested in exciting stuff like scuba and hiking and all that.  And if you choose not to do that for a while once you have kids, that's because your priorities will be different then; it's not that you're depriving yourself and putting everything you love on hold for 25 years, it's more that yeah, those things are fun, but you have other things that are more satisfying and important for the time being. 

I like travel.  Always have.  And when I had kids, that translated to wanting to give my kids that experience, too, so they could see what a huge world it is and how many different things there are to do and people to meet.  We took our first international trip when my oldest was 4, and they have both been skiing and hiking and such, and they just got certified to scuba.  But we are also FI, because we kept those splurges secondary to our higher priorities.  My tradeoff?  Both of us continued to work full-time or close-to-full-time, because we liked our work and were willing to work more and longer to be able to do that kind of stuff.  And we didn't spend a lot on other stuff, like clothes or lunches out or 800 kid lessons and activities.  YMMV, but it worked for us.

And it also doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg.  In my younger days, Europe meant hostels or cheap B&Bs/pensions.  Nowadays, that scuba certification?  Grand Cayman.  Super-expensive, right?  Except I got plane tix for all four of us on Southwest not only free, but for less than 60,000 points, by using their "low fare" calculator and working in a layover at the grandparents'.  We also alternate more expensive "bigger" trips with more low-key options, like beach trips or visits to family in pretty places.  If that is your priority, you can make it happen.

Tl;dr:  "FOMO" is overrated and over-utilized.  Usually it just means "I want it NOW but need some sort of rationalization to justify it."  Be smart now, keep Future You in mind, and you can have your fun now AND later.

[Hirondelle]

I see a few oddities in your post.

First of all, you talk about traveling but the activities you mention (scuba, hiking, skydiving) have little to do with travel. They're activities you can do anywhere, although scuba requires water and hiking requires mountains. So what is the thing that interests you really, the activities or the travel? For hiking, you could just go to any trails near your own place. Scuba diving can be pretty exciting in lakes if you're interested in the actual skill rather than just seeing fishes and corals. My mom went skydiving in a city an hour from my hometown, so not really a travel activity either.

The second is that travel has to be expensive. It's not, but it depends on how you do it. If you're in the US you have great opportunities for travel hacking which could drastically reduce the cost. Camping is another great option to travel cheaply. So is staying with friends that live in other places. If you can take a slightly longer trip you could sublet your house on AirBnb or in another way and earn back the rent. Lastly, slow travel is much cheaper than 'box checking' and IMO also much more rewarding. Rather take a month exploring one country than trying to see a whole continent in that time frame.

[sparkytheop]

I agree with others that it is very individual.  This is just my situation and how I have chosen to find a balance:

I love travel.  I didn't want to rent.  I have always dreamed of having a log cabin in the woods.  I want to retire by 52 (but will wait and accept my golden handcuffs if an early out does not present itself, and retire at my MRA of 57.  My current duties and schedule make my work life tolerable at worst, and pretty good for someone who "has" to work.)  I've also been a single mom since my ex left when the kiddo was 3 (he's now 21).

<Insert story of life here.>

I have a house.  I have a lot of land (that has come with some issues, but working with a lawyer to fix those now).  I have traveled.  I've set myself up to retire by 52 if I ever get that chance.

I save for retirement right off the top.  Then come my bills, including mortgage and property payment (property will be paid off soon).  Then I pad my vacation fund a little.  Then I make sure I cover some other "fun stuff" so life is not all work and drudgery (money for entertainment, hobbies, etc).  Then whatever is "extra" has been going to the property to pay if off faster (so I can get a house built on it, move, and be down to one "mortgage".)

Then I work overtime to pad my funds even more.  I have to show up to work more, but most of the shifts are pretty gravy, and I don't have other plans, so it's no big deal and it helps with my goals.

I put 50% of my OT money toward the property.  Then I add some to my vacation fund, make sure I have good padding on other stuff, and dump the rest to the property.  (Honestly, I should have waited to buy the property after all that has fallen through, but can't live in the past.  However, without it, I'd have a paid off house and feel absolutely rich!)

When I have a nice vacation fund built up, or I know there is lots of OT coming my way, I start to look for cheap flights.  Or I take a road trip.  Or we go camping.  Or we drive to Ashland to the Oregon Shakespeare Festival and spend a couple days there.  Or...

Point is, even though I have other big money items (retirement, property, have to replace a car, helping son with college), I am always setting aside something for vacation.  I have taken five overseas trips in the past 12 years (about 12 weeks total, 15 countries).  I'd love to have gone more, and for longer, but at 40 I hope I have a long time still to do more exploring.  I've done smaller things in my home state during the other times. 

I'm hoping that putting in the time and effort I have in the past, will result in a new house soon-ish, fewer expenses, and more time for travel.  At that point, the balance is going to be even better. 

[jaysee]

My approach was to first establish a career and then simply take time off during holidays or between jobs.

I had a Vietnamese friend offer to take me under his wing on a trip to Vietnam with his family and I took advantage of that once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, which I definitely don't regret.

I subsequently did a good deal of travelling to various countries and pursued various hobbies and interests, all outside of work hours or during holidays and breaks, while still pursuing my career.

Looking back, I'm glad I did it this way and kept my career going. My career has meant a lot to me. I don't have much to fall back on, so it's been tremendously advantageous to have a regular job, stable income and constantly increase my savings.

I'm at a point where I could retire now on a frugal budget, but I intend to keep working for at least 9 months out of every year and continue adding to my portfolio.

I'll probably stop if/when I reach $2M, enough to live off $60k per year. That should be enough to do pretty much everything I ever want to do for the rest of my life.

I aim to keep going to the gym 3-4 times a week and eating healthy, so I would expect and hope to be reasonably fit and active well into old age and do active things like hiking, etc.

[golfreak12]

Vietnam is a beautiful and unique country.