Travel Types

[deborah]

Many on this forum want to travel in retirement or may travel extensively even before it.

I have struggled with how travel is defined and what people actually mean by travel. My parents live a day’s drive away. Does visiting them constitute travel, when, I’m sure that if they lived only an hour away it wouldn’t?

And when you talk to ARS, his travel plans seemed to be going to a place, staying there for several months and then go on - which may be viewed as serial moves rather than travel. I know someone who had an average of seven different addresses a year for several years. Did they travel?

Then there are the people who I know who spend their weekends visiting nearby towns - they are finding and photographing every war memorial in the region, and have found many that the veterans association didn’t know about. Others explore the hiking trails in their local area. Are these people indulging in travel?

Or is travel something you only do to international destinations?

These are important. If you want to travel when you retire, you need to define the itch you are satisfying, because it may be that itch ican be satisfied with more frugal, more environmentally friendly, more Mustachian things. For instance, if your type of travel is to walk interesting trails, have you already explored the trails that are within easy reach? If your type of travel is to get into an RV and spend a few days at every small town or national park in your country, credit card Travel Hacking probably doesn’t make sense.

In fact there are different ways to make each type of travel more frugal and more interesting.

So what type of travel do you intend to indulge in, and let’s see how mustachian we can make them.

[Laura33]

My plan is to start off like ARS for at least a year, living a month-ish (minimum) at any number of places I've always wanted to go or can't wait to return to, renting a real apartment in a part of town where real people live, shopping in regular grocery stores, and just exploring the area.  I think that kind of approach inherently keeps your expenses under control, because it feels like real life vs. "OMG I have only one week to do and try and eat everything I've always wanted."  Many of those places will be international, but some will likely be carefully-selected-and-timed US destinations (e.g., Taos for ski season, Oregon coast for part of a summer).  The key to keeping the costs down is going to be planning the timing and travel efficiently (not going to Italy then Taos then France, for ex.).

I assume that at some point, I am not going to be interested in/able to travel permanently.  At that point, I will probably just take one big trip like that a year, for maybe 1-3 mos. at a time, and then return home.

[Re3iRtH]

Many on this forum want to travel in retirement or may travel extensively even before it.

I have struggled with how travel is defined and what people actually mean by travel. My parents live a day’s drive away. Does visiting them constitute travel, when, I’m sure that if they lived only an hour away it wouldn’t?

And when you talk to ARS, his travel plans seemed to be going to a place, staying there for several months and then go on - which may be viewed as serial moves rather than travel. I know someone who had an average of seven different addresses a year for several years. Did they travel?

Then there are the people who I know who spend their weekends visiting nearby towns - they are finding and photographing every war memorial in the region, and have found many that the veterans association didn’t know about. Others explore the hiking trails in their local area. Are these people indulging in travel?

Or is travel something you only do to international destinations?

These are important. If you want to travel when you retire, you need to define the itch you are satisfying, because it may be that itch ican be satisfied with more frugal, more environmentally friendly, more Mustachian things. For instance, if your type of travel is to walk interesting trails, have you already explored the trails that are within easy reach? If your type of travel is to get into an RV and spend a few days at every small town or national park in your country, credit card Travel Hacking probably doesn’t make sense.

In fact there are different ways to make each type of travel more frugal and more interesting.

So what type of travel do you intend to indulge in, and let’s see how mustachian we can make them.

I have traveled quite a bit, while working full time. It is one of my passions. However I have not traveled the way I ultimately want to yet, which is to live in one country for 3-12 months, then move to the next one to live in 3 to 12 months, and so on. Not sure If this would work out for those with kids..

[ketchup]

Personally, GF and I have what I'd classify as "visits," "business trips," "working vacations," and "vacations."

A visit is targeting someone in particular (or a group of people).  I flew across the country to go to my cousin's wedding last weekend.  That was a visit.

GF is in Texas right now solely for her business.  Business trip.

If we went to Hawaii and went hiking in the morning and GF did work in the afternoon, I'd call that a working vacation.

A trip somewhere, regardless of distance or time, away from anyone we know, for the sole purpose of recreation? That's a vacation.

[honeybbq]

I want to hike the PCT. And maybe the AT. We'll see.

I want to slow travel - not 3 months at a time to a place but maybe 3 weeks here, 3 weeks there. Get to be absorbed in the cultures. Travel by boat, train, bus - however the locals travel. When I travel now, everything is so squished due to short vacation times and having to "get back" to work. I want to make plans as I see fit. If the weather is bad one day, I'll just stay put and go out the next because I can.

Some travel will require giant airfare (e.g. to get to new zealand).

I'd like to visit more national parks. Possibly by camper/camper van or maybe by tent.

[jlcnuke]

trav·el
ˈtravəl/Submit
verb
1. make a journey, typically of some length or abroad.

To me, the "of some length or abroad" is the key to the definition when talking about this kind of travel.

I'd say the other necessary component (to me, not in the definition itself) is "while staying in temporary lodging". If I'm there long enough to rent/buy a place, I've moved there and established a residence there instead of traveling there.

[Irishtache]

We do a lot of what might be classed as 'vacations' and I think it is symptomatic of our discontent with our current jobs, my wife more so than I. We spend an unhealthy amount on trips. At the moment we have 4 booked for next year, totalling 5 weeks. I seek out bargains and justify it that way! We expect to retire in Oct/Nov of 2018 and I expect that we will alter the way we vacation, i.e. we will rent in Spain or France for 2-3 months at a time and remain at home the rest of the year. We may even rent a place for 6 months and travel to and from it as we wish, it makes financial sense as opposed to short term rentals. We will not sell up as we like where we live and there is family about. Also, my wife wants to have a place where the 3 grown up kids can return to, hopefully with their kiddies, when they want. The nomadic lifestyle, while attractive to me and I continually watch Youtube on camper vanning and conversions, is probably not practical for us. I expect the impetus to travel so much will ease when we have left the jobs. IT

[StetsTerhune]

One of the things I loved about college was taking intro courses and learning (and being forced to learn) the vocabulary and terminology of a subject. In real life we use such fuzzy language. When a film professor talks about a "scene" they mean something very specific and an informed listener knows exactly what that specific thing is. I wish real life was more like that.

I've been traveling full time for about 3 years now, but that has meant a wide variety of different things. The great thing about this life is that it doesn't have to be one thing and I have no commitments long term. I've found for me that variety is key. I tend to alternate active travel with rest periods. Get a rental for a month somewhere nice and relax, then spend the next month going to 6 or 7 places, then relax in a hotel for a few weeks, etc.

Generally planning ahead is necessary to do this cheaply (not true everywhere in the world), so there are still times when I am not doing exactly what I want, but I've gotten much better at anticipating my future needs and making it sustainable long term. The longer I've done this the slower I travel, but I do still travel quite actively compared to a lot of "long--term travelers." Getting the pace and activity level right is the trickiest thing about this life, but also the biggest advantage of it.

[Lmoot]

 Well I think it is a good idea to evaluate what types of travel you are more likely to do, in my case at least it's pointless to define it. For me traveling can be anywhere from driving to the next state over, to flying overseas. I intended seeing more of the United States, and traveling more extensively abroad.

If you were going somewhere to visit someone, and only to visit, whether it be for A funeral or wedding, I wouldn't classify that as "travel". As someone mentioned above, I would classify travel as going somewhere specifically for recreational purposes.  Now, if you're visiting a sister who works in Hong Kong, most likely you plan on also making it a recreational visit, so I would still classify that as travel. No reason why they cannot be combined. But if you're traveling six states over to visit your parents for the 10th time, have dinner in the house, maybe go see a show and do some shopping. That would be a visit by my definition.

 So I guess, for me it's leaving the state or area you are in, for the sole purpose of experiencing a different area. If the sole purpose is going to another area just to see a person… Maybe you're not interested in that area, or you've been there a whole bunch of times before...I would classify that as a visit.

[itchyfeet]

The reality is that 99.9% of people will need to find cheaper, more frugal or more moustachian ways to travel.

Travel is one of things that cost an almost unlimited amount. If you were to fly business or first class to developed countries on the other side of the globe, stay in 4 or 5 star hotels, rent a comfortable car wherever you went to explore, and dined at all the enticing restaurants you came across you could burn through a massive wad of cash rather quickly. I'd say everyone's travel budget will require some compromise in some way.

We currently live as expats, which has satisfied the itch to see the world quite well whilst allowing us to continue to save. Thanks to our experiences, we will now be happier exploring closer to home more often than what we would have been had we not lived abroad for the past 3 years.

Still, when we FIRE we know we want to have a healthy budget for flights, hotels, car rentals etc.

We are thinking around $15K USD per annum. This won't allow for business class flights from our home in Australia to Europe every year, and we will def have to think carefully how to get the most bang for our buck, but we think that $15K USD per year will be enough to give us plenty of options.

[itchyfeet]

^I don't think 99.9% of the people on this forum travel in the way you mention - first class all the way. So adjusting the travel budget downwards probably won't be needed by many. I think there are more budget minded travellers here and they will probably continue that once FIRE. Especially once they have time for longer trips that can often be much cheaper than multiple short trips. And the nomadic types who's living expenses are their travel expenses will likely see a huge savings.

ETA my travel budget is much higher in FIRE then it was while working. But then I've reduced expenses in other areas (like no longer commuting or saving) so its pretty much a wash. Plus I do travel for much longer now then the 2 or 3 weeks vacations I took whike working - so per week of travel I spend much less but get to go much longer. But I never did those more expensive types of trips anyways so didn't need to change or reduce my travel style or budget.

I think you misunderstood me. What I said is that 99.9% of people will need to control their travel spending and will face some limits to what they can do. This is a fact. I wasn’t comparing pre v post FIRE.

 I agree with you that most people on this forum will choose to spend their travel budget in the most efficient way (for them) and will find a way to get a lot of travel per dollar spent.

[Zikoris]

I count pretty much everything that involves going outside of the Vancouver area for more than a day to be travel, whether it's a camping trip in Garibaldi or a vacation to Europe. I'd use "visit" or "activity" for a day trip, depending whether I was going to see someone or going to do something.

We only spend about four weeks a year traveling now, due to the reality of jobs, but definitely plan to increase it post-retirement and do more of the whole "rent an apartment for a month somewhere interesting" thing. Right now our trips tend to be very action-packed, which works out great for a two week trip, but would be downright exhausting over the long term.

So I guess for us, we like pretty much every type of travel there is. We've definitely been making more of an effort to visit more local places over the last few years, which has been a blast.

[dreams_and_discoveries]

I think you misunderstood me. What I said is that 99.9% of people will need to control their travel spending and will face some limits to what they can do. This is a fact. I wasn’t comparing pre v post FIRE.

 I agree with you that most people on this forum will choose to spend their travel budget in the most efficient way (for them) and will find a way to get a lot of travel per dollar spent.

I think a lot of people here will be in that 0.1%. I know I like bus travel, and actually enjoy 'roughing' it with local transportation. Luxury doesn't really appeal to me, and I'll have as good a time in a hostel as in a luxury resort.

[use2betrix]

I personally don’t really consider going to nearby cities (a few hrs) for a weekend as “real travel.” We do a lot of that which just kind of comes with the territory.

In the last 12 months we’ve done 7 weeks in 5 countries in Asia, a 3000 mile motorcycle trip through Baja (3 weeks), and an 8000 mile US/Canada road trip camping for about 2 months.

That’s our travel. We’re a ways from FIRE but honestly, since I do short contract projects we decided to start our travel while we’re young. We still save, but as opposed to working 50 weeks a year and saving a ton, I’m fine with 35ish weeks at most a year and traveling more. I’m fine with extending FIRE for this.

[Cassie]

WE take 2 cruises/year and then also do shorter trips in our RV. We are never gone for more then 2 weeks be3caue we have 3 dogs that my son moves in to care for.  When we take the RV we take the dogs. The longest trip we took in that was a month.  WE also like to go to Europe occasionally and then don't cruise that year.  Once we are down to one 5lb dog we are thinking about taking the dog and going to Poland and living there for 4 months.  My DIL"s parents live there and when in their town we have a free place to stay.

[Metta]

We classify as travel anything that requires us to spend one or more nights away from home. So when we had to go immediately to Georgia because my father was dying there and we had to stay there for a few weeks, we counted that as travel. Extremely miserable travel, but travel nonetheless.

If we need to visit our family for a major event or because we are needed, that is travel because they live in Denver. Again, we generally don't want to travel to Denver and we never have much fun when we do, but we count it as travel because that is what we are doing and that is how it affects our budget.

If we travel for work and someone else pays for it without requiring any up-front payment by us, we don't count that as travel because our budget never sees it.

If we go to Florida and take a hotel room so that my husband can run a marathon, we count that as travel.

If we drive to an event 3 hours away so that my husband can participate in a marathon and we plan to return without spending the night, that is not travel. That is insanity.

[undercover]

The reality is that 99.9% of people will need to find cheaper, more frugal or more moustachian ways to travel.

100% of people live life with limited resources, but I don't think anywhere near 100% feel like they can't travel in the way they want to which is what you are insinuating. You're assuming that everyone wants 5 star accommodation and first class plane travel. Some people wouldn't travel at all even if given unlimited resources.

Luxury is a state of mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KlNeiY4Rf4 (needed another excuse to share this)

[itchyfeet]

The reality is that 99.9% of people will need to find cheaper, more frugal or more moustachian ways to travel.

100% of people live life with limited resources, but I don't think anywhere near 100% feel like they can't travel in the way they want to which is what you are insinuating. You're assuming that everyone wants 5 star accommodation and first class plane travel. Some people wouldn't travel at all even if given unlimited resources.

Luxury is a state of mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KlNeiY4Rf4 (needed another excuse to share this)

Again, I am not at all insinuating that all people want 5 star travel.

Just an airline ticket from Australia to Europe for 2 people costs $4,000 AUD. Even if we stay in hostels the cost of travel adds up, and hence will need to be limited to less than what we might like to do.

You are probably right to say that many people would be content with a moderate amount of affordable travel. For us, we would do more if we could afford more, and I am not saying 5 star hotels. We are happy to air BnB, stay in hostels, camp or whatever.

But we do want to keep a home base, which also costs money while we are away.

 Of course I have read all the "travel the world on $10,000 a year blogs", but I reckon that most people travelling the world for a year would choose to spend more than that if they could.

I just know how much we have spent on travel whilst working. I can only imagine, budget permitting, we will spend even more post FIRE.

[itchyfeet]

Sounds like an awesome adventure. DW and I cycled across a chunk of Europe last summer...... but stayed in 4* hotels each night ☺️

[chouchouu]

I agree with the person who said that travel is anything that requires you sleep outside your house.

I'm in Australia so for me travelling overseas is the most economical since we aren't much into camping.  It's actually cheaper for us to travel overseas by my method than to stay in Australia. Last year I bought tickets to Europe for myself and my two kids, low cost airfares because I could choose when to travel, I think around 3500 for the three of us. We did a combo of hotels, air bnb but mostly with friends or at Dh country house in Poland that is family owned. Because Europe is low cost of living compared to Australia the difference in col covered the airfare compared to staying home in Sydney for three months.  In fact I would have made a profit had I rented out the kids room on air bnb. On our trip we stayed on an island in Thailand,  visited the ancient capital ayuthaya and lopburi, stayed in the Thai countryside at my cousins house and also with my brother in bkk. Went for basic accommodation when not with family. Then a week in Paris staying air bnb,  around 300 aussie for the studio. Went to Disney land Paris and explored all over the city. Then another week in Brussels staying with friends, ended up being more expensive than at a hotel because they lived in a posh neighbourhood and I bought groceries from the crazy expensive grocers and shouted a few posh dinners and brunch but worth it for the company with friends and I could have travelled to less expensive areas to shop but no biggie. It was a bit of a shock as a mustachian to realise the ice cream cake i bought costed $90 and the roast $50 but reminded me of my pre moustache days when i wouldn't blink at spending over a hundred on a home cooked meal. Then we took an overnight train to Warsaw from cologne. Stayed with friends in Warsaw then to Gdańsk to stay with family.  Two months in the countryside picking wildo blueberries, strawberries and mushrooms in the forest and generally living it up. Then a week in London with friends and another week in Thailand on the way home. While we generally took public transport and had free or basic accommodation I didn't skimp on good food and splurged on so much shopping I had a huge box full of clothes and toys from boutiques and department stores across Europe.  Still cheaper than three months in Sydney even though I shop at aldi and take public transport back home too. I guess spending the majority of time in Poland helped, our groceries were incredibly cheap there,  maybe 30 a week and apart from that we had no costs apart from the occasional contribution to petrol.

My thoughts are that when we retire we will travel similarly except I intend to buy a place in western Europe as well. Perhaps in Brussels or Paris or a place in the French countryside and use it as my base spending much of the year there. I have a friend who has a place in London which she uses similarly and otherwise it's open for friends and family to stay in. That's where we stayed when we were in London and similarly our place in Poland is open for friends. Generally we travel to stay in friends places and fortunately have many located around the globe. My friend recently bought a place in France and there was a house next door for 70k euros. I was thinking about buying that and my friend can rent it out on air bnb when his rooms are full, that should cover the basic costs and might give extra. I don't know if I want another country place though so might go for the city even though they cost much more. Either way I think retirement will be cheap for travel provided costs stay similar. Even just renting out an apartment in Sydney is enough to afford to travel nicely around the world.

[expatartist]

My plan eventually will be to have two 'home bases', one in Asia and another in Europe, and spend about half the year in each, taking occasional regional trips from them. Building a life in two places requires more planning and consistency: gaining residency, long-term visas, making local connections, etc.

For me, 'travel' usually means leaving the country, but since the Territory where I live is so tiny, the only flights out are international ;)

Since my job provides 11-12 weeks holiday/year, I use time off for occasional travel, but it's usually practical/related to my art career. In 2017-18, trips include:
* Summer in Europe to complete art installation project in Athens, lecture in Malta, and visit contemporary art shows that happen once a decade 
* Work trips to Shanghai with visits to the silk town of Suzhou for an art project
* Weekend in Dafen, China to meet painters
* Travel across the US by train, with weekend art shows/performances/talks
* 2 weeks in Thailand for annual check-up (ultrasounds, cancer screenings etc) and any dental work

OP, thanks for the reminder that it's good to clarify what we mean when we say "Travel".

[anadyne]

I think being a traveler, wanting to travel, etc as well as the way you like to think about travel is a really personal, multifaceted and completely engineerable thing. 

When I got my college degree and I was a young single mother I sold my car and most of my things and I moved to South Africa with my little kid. We lived and worked there for a couple of years, moved north in Africa and lived and worked in another country for a couple of years, then returned to the US so I could go to graduate school.

While we were in Africa, once the newness of our living situation wore off, we were constantly wandering to the next town for the day, or doing a weekend trip to a place 3 or 4 hours away, or crossing the border into the next country for a week for vacation. Those places were near to our home base, but they offered a change of scenery, so for sure that felt like traveling to me.

Once back in the US we did the same thing. We were in our native country but we still wandered to the next town for the day, weekend trips, crossed the border for a week's vacation. Still felt like travel to me. 

Nowadays I'm really into hammock camping. I have all my gear in the back of my car and I take off for weekends straight from my work parking lot, find a place a couple hours away and hang my hammock and chill out. It's not far geographically, but it's travel to me because of the way I think about it and use it for recreation and rest. It's "AWAY" - which for me is a kind of magical word. I'm going away, getting away, yeah it's just a couple of hours, but removing myself from my current view and seeing something new when I open my eyes. 

In the summer when my job is off, I take off to other countries again for the same reason. I like to be in places where I don't speak the language, so even my ears and brain get that AWAY sense. Okay, everything is unfamiliar, everything is new, ready to be discovered. Buying food is a challenge. Greeting someone very simply has to be learned. I feel like a child again in the best possible way, with all the agency and resources of an adult. It's fantastic. So that's travel for me, too. 

I have no idea how retirement will change any of this for me. It probably won't. I'll just be an older person having these experiences.