To Retire or not to retire?

[financepatriot@gmail.com]

I have done the math and modeled an early retirement on an excel spreadsheet.  Without going into great detail, we have above $1M in total invested assets.  I feel this is enough to live off the income, produced by this, forever.   So why am I so hesitant to pull the trigger?

I earn about 128k at my day job, but I neither love nor hate it. 

Any advice or encouragement is appreciated.  FYI, about 80% is in tax deferred accounts, and 20% is in taxable accounts, but I have a strategy for the tax deferred accounts so as to minimize post retirement taxes (Roth laddering, etc)

Thanks

[TheAnonOne]

Take a little time and let the fact that you can fire SINK IN.

It's one thing to reach the number over years of running at it and another to fall into it with little perception.

If this isn't you, apologies.

Next, take some time and think about what you're going to do. Where do you want to travel?

Lastly, run over the preFIRE checklist here on the forums (I can't get the link on my phone)

That will reinforce some logic to your plan. I would be scared I missed something too! This list really helps make this easier.

Also.. CONGRATULATIONS

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[prognastat]

I mean if the math works worst case scenario you quit and suddenly the market has a significantly long downturn in the upcoming few years and you end up having to do some part-time or consulting work to cover the gap until the market swings back up.

How large is the gap between your minimum expenses and the amount of $ generated by your investments? The larger this is the larger your flexibility is to reduce expenses in case of a downturn.

If you are really worried maybe give it a year to see how your investments did in a year without touching it and see if it did as well as you hoped.

If it is because feelings of insecurity are there ways for you to reduce your necessary expenses? Like paying off a mortgage or other improvements that can be made to reduce necessary expenses?

Also if you FIRE now and in 10 years you have to do some part time work if things go wrong to make up the difference will it truly be some kind of failure if you had 10 years of freedom then and once things turn around again you will have many more?

[financepatriot@gmail.com]

I am just a bit insecure in general when it comes to money because I grew up with low income, low asset parents.  The only example I have ever seen is mismanagement leading to disaster. 

Ironically, these insecure feelings are the exact same reason why I was always so motivated to save and invest.  I plan on keeping our mortgage into retirement, it's a 2.89% 5 year ARM with great and cheap relock options, so that's not a concern of ours. 

[prognastat]

I am just a bit insecure in general when it comes to money because I grew up with low income, low asset parents.  The only example I have ever seen is mismanagement leading to disaster. 

Ironically, these insecure feelings are the exact same reason why I was always so motivated to save and invest.  I plan on keeping our mortgage into retirement, it's a 2.89% 5 year ARM with great and cheap relock options, so that's not a concern of ours.

Yeah the mortgage is not a financial thing more of a confidence thing. I would say if you can avoid it don't pay it off, but for some people it's the thing holding them back from FIREing due to their worries.

[goateeman]

Congrats OP, you're at where I'm pretty much at:  http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/life-long-saver-possibly-forced-to-fire/

We could both pull the trigger and retire now.  I'm weighing the option to take a sabbatical and figure out if I want it to last forever or a short amount of time.  Feeling awesome!

[financepatriot@gmail.com]

Congrats to you too.  If a layoff is right around the corner, and not a year away, my vote is stick it out.  Severance package and unemployment is an IDEAL way to start an early retirement.  However, if it takes too long, my vote is Brexit your work place. 

[SachaFiscal]

I'm currently on a sabbatical trying to figure out if I want to retire too. Each day I seem to feel differently about it. My DH is totally supportive but I worry about what others (friends and family) will think. Also my coworkers (DH still will be working at same company). I'm trying to work through these strong inhibitions and not care so much about others opinions.  I've broached the subject with my sister who feels like I should go back to work and see if I can stick it out for a few years. My Mom said I should work until 50 (I'm 41 now). One of my friends is totally supportive and another is jealous and has pulled away.  I'm afraid to mention it to my in-laws who still have to work and might see me as lazy.  But then I think.... I really don't know how much life I have left. I keep thinking about my Dad who died at age 60 at his desk with a week left before retirement.  And then I think I need to live my life as I want to and need to and just ignore any negativity I receive from others.  I'm completely confident in the financials. I also think I would be able
to find work in the future if necessary.  It really feels deep in my gut that it is time to move on from my career and get started on my bucket list items that I've been putting off.

[prognastat]

I'm currently on a sabbatical trying to figure out if I want to retire too. Each day I seem to feel differently about it. My DH is totally supportive but I worry about what others (friends and family) will think. Also my coworkers (DH still will be working at same company). I'm trying to work through these strong inhibitions and not care so much about others opinions.  I've broached the subject with my sister who feels like I should go back to work and see if I can stick it out for a few years. My Mom said I should work until 50 (I'm 41 now). One of my friends is totally supportive and another is jealous and has pulled away.  I'm afraid to mention it to my in-laws who still have to work and might see me as lazy.  But then I think.... I really don't know how much life I have left. I keep thinking about my Dad who died at age 60 at his desk with a week left before retirement.  And then I think I need to live my life as I want to and need to and just ignore any negativity I receive from others.  I'm completely confident in the financials. I also think I would be able
to find work in the future if necessary.  It really feels deep in my gut that it is time to move on from my career and get started on my bucket list items that I've been putting off.

The friend that has pulled away wasn't a real friend. It's sad , but unfortunately sometimes people aren't truly interested in your wellbeing.

The best thing you can do is live the life you yourself want to have and the people that support you are the ones you should keep near.

[pbkmaine]

This is how you know who your friends really are. It's quite useful. Years ago, I moved away from Philadelphia, where I was born and raised and lived in the early part of my first marriage. I was worried about losing my strong network there, but a much-relocated friend told me that my real friends would keep in touch, no matter what. And they would not necessarily be ones I'd expect. It's been true.

[BTDretire]

I have done the math and modeled an early retirement on an excel spreadsheet.  Without going into great detail, we have above $1M in total invested assets.  I feel this is enough to live off the income, produced by this, forever.   So why am I so hesitant to pull the trigger?

I earn about 128k at my day job, but I neither love nor hate it. 

Thanks

  Above $1M, let's say $1.1M, x 4% =$44,000. Have you limited your spending to $44,000?
If you haven't, do that for a couple of years and see how you like it, then decide if you want to pull the trigger.
If you need pull out some work related expenses OK, but you might want to add back in some fun related expenses. :-)

[HenryDavid]

We're in a similar boat.
We tracked spending carefully for 2 years (!) to show that we were in fact already living on a conservative projection of FIRE income.
So I switched to part-time work in 2015, and will retire in 2018.
My suggestion is: road-test the spending level, and take a sabbatical/leave etc. to test out how you feel about the free time. Some people don't like it! But most . . . really like it.

[rantk81]

Take a little time and let the fact that you can fire SINK IN.

It's one thing to reach the number over years of running at it and another to fall into it with little perception.

If this isn't you, apologies.

Next, take some time and think about what you're going to do. Where do you want to travel?

Lastly, run over the preFIRE checklist here on the forums (I can't get the link on my phone)

That will reinforce some logic to your plan. I would be scared I missed something too! This list really helps make this easier.

Also.. CONGRATULATIONS

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

I'd be interested in this pre FIRE checklist to see if there are any things that I am overlooking

[Accidental Fire]

I am just a bit insecure in general when it comes to money because I grew up with low income, low asset parents.  The only example I have ever seen is mismanagement leading to disaster. 

Ironically, these insecure feelings are the exact same reason why I was always so motivated to save and invest.  I plan on keeping our mortgage into retirement, it's a 2.89% 5 year ARM with great and cheap relock options, so that's not a concern of ours.

I'm in the exact same boat. Grew up lower-middle class, always worried about money, that led me to frugality. I know I'm pretty set to FIRE now - my case is here

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/case-studies/case-study-update-from-last-year-and-thanks!/msg1415735/#msg1415735

But like others I'm having trouble with the "finality" of it. So my plan is to try to negotiate a part-time schedule with my job. I brought it up to my boss last week, but I work for the government so nothing moves fast. I hope part-time will let my mind and emotions figure out if I want to go full-monty, stay part time, or go back.

Two blogs besides MMM that I found helpful for the "brain" side of things (vice financial) are Living A Fi - https://livingafi.com/   (he doesn't write much anymore since he FIREd but read his archive, he's a great writer)

Our Next Life - https://ournextlife.com/  Quite a few great posts about the personal side and they will FIRE this year

I've been finding the posts on those two blogs very helpful to try to get my mind in the right place

[TheAnonOne]

Take a little time and let the fact that you can fire SINK IN.

It's one thing to reach the number over years of running at it and another to fall into it with little perception.

If this isn't you, apologies.

Next, take some time and think about what you're going to do. Where do you want to travel?

Lastly, run over the preFIRE checklist here on the forums (I can't get the link on my phone)

That will reinforce some logic to your plan. I would be scared I missed something too! This list really helps make this easier.

Also.. CONGRATULATIONS

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

I'd be interested in this pre FIRE checklist to see if there are any things that I am overlooking

Came back and found it for ya!

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/pre-fire-checklist/

[financepatriot@gmail.com]

Thank you, I'll check it out. 

[Laura33]

I am just a bit insecure in general when it comes to money because I grew up with low income, low asset parents.  The only example I have ever seen is mismanagement leading to disaster. 

Ironically, these insecure feelings are the exact same reason why I was always so motivated to save and invest.  I plan on keeping our mortgage into retirement, it's a 2.89% 5 year ARM with great and cheap relock options, so that's not a concern of ours.

Hi, my apparently long-lost sibling!  I am struggling with this, too.  I get paid a relative lot of money for a job I don't hate.  And there is a big, huge sense of security that comes along with a big fat paycheck that is more than my expenses.

In short, I have spent the @45 years since I got my first allowance taking income and putting it into savings.  And now you want me to start taking it out?  I haven't quite wrapped my brain around that one yet.  ;-)

[Retire-Canada]

If I hit my retirement target $$ I'd pull the plug in a second. I'll probably retire before I get to 25x times spending and just cut back a bit early on so I can stop working sooner.

[VoteCthulu]

I'm still a couple years away from fire, but I was thinking about part time work once I hit 4% to ease into retirement. My work isn't very accommodating for part time hours or working at home, so I'll need to be ready to quit when I ask.

The great thing about being FI is that I won't need to worry about getting paid enough or messing up my career path, if I don't find something I like I can just work at the library or tutor for a while.

[Bateaux]

Unless you have some guaranteed benefits for life in the form of a government pension and health care. My answer is no.  It's not enough.   There is potential that we'll all be paying 20k or more in health-care costs soon.  That's half your stash working for just health care.  I make about as much as you.  It's real easy to get to 2M from where you are now.   

[TheAnonOne]

Unless you have some guaranteed benefits for life in the form of a government pension and health care. My answer is no.  It's not enough.   There is potential that we'll all be paying 20k or more in health-care costs soon.  That's half your stash working for just health care.  I make about as much as you.  It's real easy to get to 2M from where you are now.

...and the world is going to end and the market has peaked for all humanity and kids costs are going up, have you seen tuition?

I get it, look at HC costs, but to say someone needs to double their stash and go for a 2% SWR? Can anyone here FIRE? What forum is this?

[Bateaux]

Retiree from my company is paying 1,800 a month for health care right now.   Just had the conversation a few days ago.   Do the math.

[talltexan]

There's nothing wrong with part-time work during FIRE. Perhaps that can be used to secure those health benefits that seem to be such a sticking point.

[rantk81]

Unless you have some guaranteed benefits for life in the form of a government pension and health care. My answer is no.  It's not enough.   There is potential that we'll all be paying 20k or more in health-care costs soon.  That's half your stash working for just health care.  I make about as much as you.  It's real easy to get to 2M from where you are now.

...and the world is going to end and the market has peaked for all humanity and kids costs are going up, have you seen tuition?

I get it, look at HC costs, but to say someone needs to double their stash and go for a 2% SWR? Can anyone here FIRE? What forum is this?

Well, you could throw my name to the list of folks who would otherwise be FIRE'd already by now, if it weren't for the yuuge open question of ridiculous healthcare costs in the future.

[TheAnonOne]

Unless you have some guaranteed benefits for life in the form of a government pension and health care. My answer is no.  It's not enough.   There is potential that we'll all be paying 20k or more in health-care costs soon.  That's half your stash working for just health care.  I make about as much as you.  It's real easy to get to 2M from where you are now.

...and the world is going to end and the market has peaked for all humanity and kids costs are going up, have you seen tuition?

I get it, look at HC costs, but to say someone needs to double their stash and go for a 2% SWR? Can anyone here FIRE? What forum is this?

Well, you could throw my name to the list of folks who would otherwise be FIRE'd already by now, if it weren't for the yuuge open question of ridiculous healthcare costs in the future.

I don't think it's bad to be cautious for a few weeks/months here. Though, years and years? Probably not.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[financepatriot@gmail.com]

I am just a bit insecure in general when it comes to money because I grew up with low income, low asset parents.  The only example I have ever seen is mismanagement leading to disaster. 

Ironically, these insecure feelings are the exact same reason why I was always so motivated to save and invest.  I plan on keeping our mortgage into retirement, it's a 2.89% 5 year ARM with great and cheap relock options, so that's not a concern of ours.

I'm in the exact same boat. Grew up lower-middle class, always worried about money, that led me to frugality. I know I'm pretty set to FIRE now - my case is here

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/case-studies/case-study-update-from-last-year-and-thanks!/msg1415735/#msg1415735

But like others I'm having trouble with the "finality" of it. So my plan is to try to negotiate a part-time schedule with my job. I brought it up to my boss last week, but I work for the government so nothing moves fast. I hope part-time will let my mind and emotions figure out if I want to go full-monty, stay part time, or go back.

Two blogs besides MMM that I found helpful for the "brain" side of things (vice financial) are Living A Fi - https://livingafi.com/   (he doesn't write much anymore since he FIREd but read his archive, he's a great writer)

Our Next Life - https://ournextlife.com/  Quite a few great posts about the personal side and they will FIRE this year

I've been finding the posts on those two blogs very helpful to try to get my mind in the right place

[financepatriot@gmail.com]

Retiree from my company is paying 1,800 a month for health care right now.   Just had the conversation a few days ago.   Do the math.

I have to wonder why they are doing that when there are so many other good options, Christian health sharing, self insurance and medical tourism are a few.  No need to go overseas though, there are plenty of places that will accept  you as a self pay patient, it all depends on the quotes you get. 

So my follow up question is, have they done the math? 

[spokey doke]

I'm currently on a sabbatical trying to figure out if I want to retire too. Each day I seem to feel differently about it. My DH is totally supportive but I worry about what others (friends and family) will think. Also my coworkers (DH still will be working at same company). I'm trying to work through these strong inhibitions and not care so much about others opinions.  I've broached the subject with my sister who feels like I should go back to work and see if I can stick it out for a few years. My Mom said I should work until 50 (I'm 41 now). One of my friends is totally supportive and another is jealous and has pulled away.  I'm afraid to mention it to my in-laws who still have to work and might see me as lazy.  But then I think.... I really don't know how much life I have left. I keep thinking about my Dad who died at age 60 at his desk with a week left before retirement.  And then I think I need to live my life as I want to and need to and just ignore any negativity I receive from others.  I'm completely confident in the financials. I also think I would be able
to find work in the future if necessary.  It really feels deep in my gut that it is time to move on from my career and get started on my bucket list items that I've been putting off.

Lot's of us in this same boat...and it never ceases to amaze me how powerful social norms are, not just in shaping other people's judgment ("you can't retire, you're too young!"  "of course you'll have children" etc.), but also shaping our judgments of ourselves...even when we have otherwise debunked the legitimacy of the norm!

So we tell ourselves "I can do this, no doubt" but then doubt whether we really can, and allow ourselves to be influence by the judgment of others.  But the latter is real and we don't have a ton of influence over that.  And it is often not just the would-be friend who is now alienated and jealous about your FI, but family members who might think you are being irresponsible, or selfish, or lazy, or all of those things, and who are not going away.  And again, while we can say to ourselves "they are wrong, but if the insist on judging me, let them", but that can still hurt or be very frustrating.

I started a side-gig in part just to provide a story that people could understand (and it is a real passion for me, so it is pretty engaging).

[Iplawyer]

Retiree from my company is paying 1,800 a month for health care right now.   Just had the conversation a few days ago.   Do the math.

I have to wonder why they are doing that when there are so many other good options, Christian health sharing, self insurance and medical tourism are a few.  No need to go overseas though, there are plenty of places that will accept  you as a self pay patient, it all depends on the quotes you get. 

So my follow up question is, have they done the math?

most places won't give you quotes.  Health shares do not take everyone.  Self-insurance is typically not viable since without insurance you pay way more than insurance pays for everything. And you cannot go overseas every time you need a $90K chemotherapy treatment.

[powskier]

A few questions:
What are your expenses?
How can you be comfortable with a 5 year Adjustable rate mortgage in a time of rising interest rates?  It is likely your rate will be going up and thus your expenses?
In another post you mentioned that 4% SWR was  a random number ( paraphrase), how are you determining what your SWR is?