Author Topic: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?  (Read 25609 times)

druth

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Assume you lost your job today, how long would you be able to manage?

I have about two years, assuming I cut back on some frivilous spending, and kept my side job (1/6 of my total income), and continued to collect rent from my roommate, but you should calculate it however is most relevant to you.

I thought it was pretty neat how long I could go, even without being FI.  Makes me even more chill about my current job than I already was.

Vilgan

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2016, 09:47:29 AM »
Indefinitely, since we can live off my wife's income. If we both lost our jobs, it'd be nice to find something within 5 years.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2016, 09:50:26 AM »
Emptying retirement accounts or not? If we lost my job, I could go indefinitely. If we lost DH's, but kept mine, we could go indefinitely only if we eliminated all savings and above the minimum debt repayment. If we lost both, and would empty all accounts, I suppose we could go about 2.24 years at current spending rate.

Wow, that actually is pretty crazy. I'm glad you posted- I thought our answer would be like 6 months!

Edit to add: I did no calculations involving tax penalties or anything. But there would be those. So... less? If we had to pilfer retirement. Double job loss, non-retirement pilfering with no changes would be 10 months.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 10:13:09 AM by Bracken_Joy »

MillenialMustache

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2016, 09:51:01 AM »
Theoretically, if myself or my DH lost our job, we would be perfectly fine, as we live off less than half our income and could live off the other's salary. However, it would slow down the second spouse being able to stop working, probably by several years. If I get really technical, if our side incomes keep going the way they are going, neither of us ever need to work again, but I don't feel that I can completely depend on those yet.

fattest_foot

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2016, 09:53:39 AM »
If we liquidated our savings, probably about 4 years.

That said, in this scenario we'd absolutely pare back our spend rate and could probably stretch that out to 5-6 years. It'd mean selling the house and moving in with family, etc. But in this hypothetical where we're unemployed that long, that would be necessary.

FIRE47

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2016, 09:55:08 AM »
Indefinitely on 1 income as part of a 2 income household as I'm sure is the case for almost anyone on this site.

I actually do this calc for fun a couple times a year and I include unemployment benefits to be as realistic as possible - and liquidating my portfolio for a safe 2% return just to add some investment income for realism.

I don't change any expense not even entertainment or vehicle just to be conservative.

We are at around 7.5 years at this point this is a full liquidation and draw to $0.

zephyr911

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2016, 10:04:03 AM »
DW's job alone would pay our bills.

My side jobs alone would pay our bills.

So, not FI technically, but a long time. Like, forever. lol

Zikoris

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2016, 10:07:16 AM »
10 years of current spending minus international travel, longer if we made even minor lifestyle changes. Indefinitely if we moved to Thailand or something.

Of course, that's assuming we both lost our jobs - if just one of us did, we could theoretically continue on exactly as we do forever since we save over half our income (and earn similar amounts).

Cromacster

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2016, 10:10:56 AM »
Assuming the wife and I both lost our jobs...5-6 years if we kept our spending at current levels.  If we adjusted appropriately we could probably stretch it to 10 years.

Parizade

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2016, 10:14:28 AM »
I could retire now, I just wouldn't be living at the level of luxury I desire. I wouldn't be able to go south for the winter or take international trips. I wouldn't go out with friends as often.

RelaxedGal

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2016, 10:28:26 AM »
Emptying retirement accounts or not? If we lost my job, I could go indefinitely. If we lost DH's, but kept mine, we could go indefinitely only if we eliminated all savings and above the minimum debt repayment. If we lost both, and would empty all accounts, I suppose we could go about 2.24 years at current spending rate.

Ditto, but 3.25 years and assuming no unemployment benefits, no dividend checks, no change in spending, and only touching our taxable accounts because they are earmarked for early retirement.

It's nice to have FU money.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 06:45:30 AM by RelaxedGal »

TheAnonOne

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2016, 10:30:12 AM »
My wife and I could survive for a while..

me- 160k to 200k
her- 40k

bills 50-60k

So, if I lost my job, we could go for a pretty long time before even touching investments. Many months on our emergency fund alone.

If she lost her job, it wouldn't really change our lifestyle that much, other than her 401k would stop getting contributed to, and every two weeks we get to put less in the other pile (taxable).

caracarn

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2016, 10:36:07 AM »
I feel in really poor shape considering other answers, but we also are less along on our savings than others, but if we used all our retirement savings etc. we could go perhaps 2 years, but just on the liquid cash, just 3-4 months at this point.  As I said we are looking to see how we free up more cash for investing in the next year or so and then as kids move out that should lower costs, but for right now that's where we stand.  Sad but true.

bobechs

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2016, 10:42:41 AM »
As a single person I do not have the dodge that I could then live off of the spouse's share of family income alone, with no draw on accumulated savings --however they were previously designated for an alternative future.

But, as a single person I suppose that I could then seek out an income-earning  spouse to plug into that hole in my finances in a way that replicates the fallback scenario of most of the other posters here.

But, but... that would then resemble the job that I don't have, plus launching this new career at a bargaining disadvantage, not having a job.

gillstone

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2016, 10:43:55 AM »
Absolute worst-case scenario - we both lose our jobs at the same time and we don't qualify for unemployment, we could go roughly 4 years of very lean living. 

If I lost my job (higher pay and health insurance) we would just get by on DW salary without tapping savings or retirement (including paying for insurance from her job).  Of course we wouldn't be saving much of anything, but it would be better than starving.

Looking back to about 3 years ago I'm not sure we could have cleared six months let alone a full year. 





TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2016, 10:44:51 AM »
While I live with my partner we haven't combined finances (the condo we live in is owned by him, mine is rented). That being said, I could live at my current level (spending about 15K a year) for about 5 years. Bringing my spending down to the minimum (below 10K) would bump it up to 7-8 years (this is without touching one of my retirement accounts which is rather difficult to access). As soon as my condo sells, I'll have another 1 to 2 years of room.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2016, 10:48:37 AM »
If I kept spending down to what it was last year ($19,400 all inclusive) I have ~8 years of living expenses saved.

A part time job making $12/hr for 24 hours a week would cover about 60% of my expenses, I just don't see myself being unemployed for any meaningful period of time.

chesebert

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2016, 10:52:42 AM »
Indefinitely with some life style changes (e.g, moving into one of our rentals in a LCOL state).

I can always do the expat thing again if I can't find an equivalent paying job state side.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 10:55:40 AM by chesebert »

FrugalFan

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2016, 10:53:43 AM »
Indefinitely if just one of us lost a job. If we both lost our jobs, over 6 years at current spend levels, over 10 years if we didn't pay for daycare and moved into a paid off house using our current equity, and over 13 years if we cut back international travel, college savings, and a few other luxuries. Feels pretty good!

Northwestie

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2016, 10:58:16 AM »
Forever - even if we both lost our jobs.  We're there - but really enjoy or work -- so a couple more years before starting to cut back

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2016, 11:02:54 AM »
Maybe til the end of the month . . .

fishnfool

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2016, 11:05:13 AM »
The only thing keeping me working 4 to 5 more years is Healthcare costs.  We could retire now but the numbers look a lot better a few years out. So if we both lost our jobs now, we'd sell our primary home and pay off our retirement home, end of story!

NotJen

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2016, 11:07:26 AM »
Also single without a spouse's income to fall back on, which is why I keep a healthy emergency fund.

I have a year's worth of spending easily accessible in the EF, but I could probably go longer since I'd likely cut unnecessary expenses.  And I find it hard to believe that I would go longer than a few months without ANY kind of income.

BigHaus89

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2016, 11:27:51 AM »
I could probably live off my girlfriend's income in the case of job loss. I would have to up the rent for her and my tenant(they have a great deal currently) and it would not be very fun. I don't have much cushion because I have been extremely aggressive towards paying off debt and investing. I do have a very stable job, so I am not worried.

pachnik

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2016, 11:31:22 AM »
If I liquidated everything, I could keep going for about 12 or 13 years.

APowers

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2016, 11:40:11 AM »
We could last 3-4 years on the cash we have in the bank (~$32k), and another 7 years if we had to sell the (paid-off) house. That's assuming no gov't aid. If we decided to take food stamps, it'd bump us up another year-ish. We've optimized our expenses to the point where we can support our current lifestyle with a minimum-wage job, which would likely be easy enough for either of us to find.

Villanelle

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2016, 11:48:33 AM »
Since I had to quit my job to move overseas for DH's, we obviously aren't in as great a position WRT one job loss.  Still, if we are talking about tapping all our available resources (investment account, retirement contributions, etc.), probably ~5+ years assuming no hyper inflation or anything like that.  If we relocated, or even moved in with family, which would be options since there would be no jobs tying us down, it would probably be indefinitely.  We might even be able to pull that off on just 4%SWR, if we weren't paying rent to family (which we would probably do in a longer term situation).   

Also on the table would be relocating to a much lower COL area, which would extend everything. 

And that's without unemployment.  Also, DH's job (military) is freakishly stable, so it's unlikely. 

Albert

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2016, 11:49:11 AM »
After liquidating all investments, but not selling any property 4-5 years in Switzerland or ca 15 years back where my parents live. That's assuming neither of us use unemployment insurance for which we would be eligible up to 18 months. Also I assume we would cut back on most if not all luxuries (travel, eating out etc).

eudaimonia

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2016, 12:05:41 PM »
Assuming both of us lost our jobs and didn't receive any unemployment we could last about 12 years if we liquidated all assets.

RobFIRE

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2016, 12:07:05 PM »
I'm already FIRE at current spending levels (currently single sharing rent with partner; my FIRE target is for covering expenses for partner + kids in future plus maybe part time work for luxuries)

Enough

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2016, 01:31:12 PM »
5 years at current spending with retirement accounts.  6 mo with cash on hand.

JordanOfGilead

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2016, 02:05:48 PM »
Probably not more than a couple months if DW and I were to both suddenly become unemployed. Maybe a year if I lost my job and she kept hers. I have been throwing everything I've got at my debt emergency and, as a result, only have maybe two months worth of savings between my retirement accounts, and that's if I suddenly stop making debt payments too. We would have to go into full-on "fuck my credit, we need to survive" mode.
Fortunately, in about 3 years I will be able to start saving more rapidly once I start eliminating my debts

use2betrix

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2016, 02:16:43 PM »
About 3 years if I lost my job.

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2016, 02:39:51 PM »
10 years of current spending minus international travel, longer if we made even minor lifestyle changes. Indefinitely if we moved to Thailand or something.

Of course, that's assuming we both lost our jobs - if just one of us did, we could theoretically continue on exactly as we do forever since we save over half our income (and earn similar amounts).

+1

One cool thing I realized when I hit 10 years of expenses saved. Assuming money is fungible we effectively won't spend the money we earn today for 10 years. At a 7% ROI we effectively double the value our salary. It's a major counter argument to my desire to take 5 years off now...


mm1970

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2016, 02:51:16 PM »
Indefinitely, since we can live off my wife's income. If we both lost our jobs, it'd be nice to find something within 5 years.
This.

If we were willing to leave the area, we could probably go forever, but there would be no college fund.

sol

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2016, 02:56:54 PM »
Every single person with a positive net worth could survive indefinitely with no more income, if they were prepared to make the required lifestyle and spending adjustments.  The only reason we all work is because we want to spend more than that.

The relevant calculation isn't savings divided by current spending rate to find how long you could survive, it's savings times 4% to find your currently supportable spending rate.  If you could cut your spending down to that, in an emergency, then you could emergency retire today.

My family could do it, even if we both lost our jobs.   It would mean making some sacrifices, but we could keep our current home.  If we gave up all childcare expenses, youth sports, Netflix, eating out,  charitable donations, vacation and holiday spending, random shopping, and paid off our house, then our biggest expenses would be food and property taxes, and our minimum family budget fits neatly inside of 4% of our residual savings.  Moving would make it even easier.

That would mean a life of lots more biking and library books and free hobbies like gardening, cooking from scratch, family game nights, and more shopping at goodwill.  It doesn't really sound so bad, though I'm sure my kids would hate it.

SwordGuy

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2016, 03:05:48 PM »
As long as we want to.

And we'll be getting raises 1 year in and 4 to 11 years as our SS kicks in.   Ditto this year when our rental property #3 goes on the market.  Ditto as we sell our old house and redeploy that income into more rentals.

It's a good feeling!

We're waiting until that first raise kicks in a year from now.

Shamantha

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2016, 03:22:28 PM »
Two years of unemployment benefit, probably maxed out to 3 years with a severance payment. Would not have to touch my savings. After that, 4 or 5 years on savings, until zero.

Or: sell my house and relocate to something smaller/cheaper, in which case savings could last 10 years. I need 20 to official retirement age and social security, so a gap left of 10 years.

Or: rent out half my current house, and I could last on savings and rental income until social security kicks in at 69.

At this moment, every year I work I can save up for 3 years of retirement. Which means if I keep the current salary, after three or four years I could last indefinitely. Not in the house or at the comfort level I would choose, but still. Three or four more years after that, and I am home and vigorously toweling myself off :-)

rocketpj

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2016, 04:21:24 PM »
Well, if I lost my job and there was no hope of another I'd be pouring everything into my side hustle.  And I'd have about 2 years to make it work - more if it started to pay better.

If we both lost our jobs it would be different.  Assuming we don't sell the house (we would, probably quickly to downsize), we'd have about 1 year, 1.5 years if we radically pruned (which we would).  If the side hustle(s) started to pay off more then that would change, obviously.

Really the biggest issue would be the mortgage payments.  But we are in a relatively HCOL place for employment reasons, so if we removed the employment imperative we could move another 30 miles away from the Vancrazer real estate market and live mortgage free.  Perhaps we should do that now, but DW is unwilling to make the shift (she likes her job a lot) and since she makes more than me I can't really convince her (I'd quit my job in a hearbeat if something better came along).

The Fake Cheap

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2016, 07:27:58 PM »
This is a neat little exercise. 

If assume my wife and I both lost our jobs, received no employment insurance benefits and we kept roughly the same lifestyle, and depleted all invesments I would ballpark this at about 2 1/2 years.

If you want to take it to the next level and cut back everything to bare bones, sell the house and live in the cheapest apartment acceptable I would say we could probably stretch things out to about 6 years.  It would be even longer if you start calculating in things like government assistance and tax credits.

tobitonic

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2016, 07:34:02 PM »
Every single person with a positive net worth could survive indefinitely with no more income, if they were prepared to make the required lifestyle and spending adjustments.  The only reason we all work is because we want to spend more than that.

The relevant calculation isn't savings divided by current spending rate to find how long you could survive, it's savings times 4% to find your currently supportable spending rate.  If you could cut your spending down to that, in an emergency, then you could emergency retire today.


My family could do it, even if we both lost our jobs.   It would mean making some sacrifices, but we could keep our current home.  If we gave up all childcare expenses, youth sports, Netflix, eating out,  charitable donations, vacation and holiday spending, random shopping, and paid off our house, then our biggest expenses would be food and property taxes, and our minimum family budget fits neatly inside of 4% of our residual savings.  Moving would make it even easier.

That would mean a life of lots more biking and library books and free hobbies like gardening, cooking from scratch, family game nights, and more shopping at goodwill.  It doesn't really sound so bad, though I'm sure my kids would hate it.

As usual, sol brings the potency to the thread.

turketron

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2016, 07:45:22 PM »
At my current spending and without tapping any tax-advantaged retirement accounts I could go about 4 years. If tightened my belt a bit- moved into a shared place with roommates, never went out to eat or to bars, I imagine I could stretch it out much further than that.

mnsaver

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2016, 07:56:53 PM »
I'm single and assuming no severance/unemployment, 4-6 years depending on what health insurance costs. After looking up what I'd get for unemployment it is kind of nice to realize I can pay all my bills on that (not that I plan to need it but it is nice to know.) If I could come up with a part time job/temp work I'd be able to stretch it out even more.

startingsmall

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2016, 08:15:48 PM »
If we lost only my husband's job, we could go indefinitely and still keep putting money in savings. I'm the primary earner in our home.

If I lost my FT job but my side gig income remained constant and husband kept his job.... with just slight reductions to our expenses (cut back on eating out, pull our daughter out of preschool, stop or significantly reduce charitable contributions, etc, but not counting on being able to sell home/vehicles/etc), we could go on indefinitely but it'd be pretty close.

If I lost my FT job AND side gig, we only made mild changes as described above, and we burned through all of our accounts, we could go 10 years.

If we both lost all of our income at the same time, only made minimal changes, and burned through all accounts, we could go about 3 years before we'd run out of money.

bkmnky72

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2016, 09:55:59 PM »
I we don't both work, it will take us 3 years bare bones.

If SO doesn't work, we'll be okay with little savings.

If I don't work, we'll be okay with no savings.

golfreak12

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2016, 11:31:31 PM »
I wouldn't say we are FI but if I lost my job and only I work.we would have both houses paid and net about $2000 from the rentals. We then would move abroad and live comfortably on $2k a month.

steveo

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2016, 12:56:44 AM »
Every single person with a positive net worth could survive indefinitely with no more income, if they were prepared to make the required lifestyle and spending adjustments.  The only reason we all work is because we want to spend more than that.

I was about to state no and then I realised I live in a house worth a fortune and I have a decent amount in retirement funds (I can't access this though until 60).

As I (meaning the wife and kids) are not going to make the required lifestyle changes (which wouldn't really bother me) I think we could survive for about 5 years without downsizing the house with the assumption that we spend the base level amount. I expect in about 3 years time we could survive forever on base level spending.

This is a good thread to think about.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 01:03:28 AM by steveo »

MrMathMustache

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2016, 02:30:02 AM »
I was actually thinking about this very thing when updating my balance sheet last week.  Single here, but I could live off cash + non-retirement investments for about 7 years, assuming no change in value of said investments and no decrease in spending.  Fortunately, being a teacher means the likelihood of job loss is pretty low, but the downside of that is that income growth potential is also very low.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2016, 04:19:52 AM »
Well, at my current spending it would be about 3 years, however I could easily tighten my belt, take in lodgers and make that last at least double the time.


alsoknownasDean

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Re: Those that aren't FI, how long could you last if you lost your job?
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2016, 05:03:31 AM »
At present, living where I do, and not counting my super (I can't touch it until 60 anyway) or any payout of accrued annual leave/long service leave, about six months.

Of course I'd be able to get it to last longer if I moved.