Those of you with $200k+ income, what’s your typical monthly spending like?

[FireHiker]

I suppose on paper I fit in the category that someone said "should leave and go to Bogleheads" or whatever nonsense. Personally, even though I am nowhere near as frugal as much of the MMM community, I vastly prefer it here. I have learned so much here, and even if I have some trouble getting traction within my own home, I would rather spend my time here learning how other people cut spending/side hustle. I'm not really all that interested in investment talk; we max out our 401ks and try to save beyond that but I'd rather spend my time reading about a sub $200/mo grocery bill than reading about investments. My target FIRE budget is about 60k/yr. We will save enough to fund 100k/yr though, my husband's target number is 2.5M and he is definitely more Boglehead than MMM.

Even though we have a LONG way to go to really be as frugal as I'd like, and our travel spending will always be high (though we try to mitigate with points cards), we have made some changes since finding MMM that I never would have expected: cut cable, cheaper cell plan, let cleaning lady go and now clean our own house, buy nothing group first before buying something used before buying something new, tracking all of our spending to get a handle on where we can improve. We have a 2 mile commute which we had already, and that's fantastic. We should walk or bike ride, but with kids and activities we usually drive.

I think, even if a person doesn't entirely "fit" all the averages here, there is useful information for nearly anyone. A person on a lower income may not be able to FIRE by 30, but that doesn't mean there isn't useful information here that can improve their quality of life. I'd rather encourage outliers to be a part of the community as opposed to suggesting they leave if they aren't perfectly "mustachian", but that's just my opinion.

[mizzourah2006]

I wish people would rethink the notion that they have to live in a HCOLA to make a high income. I saw this idea convince many of my friends in college to blindly move to Boston or the SF Bay Area without actually looking at what salaries they could make in more affordable places. I'm able to make well above the threshold for this thread living in Tucson, Arizona.

Agree with this. It's definitely possible to make a great income in a lower cost of living area. Usually when recruiters reach out to me for positions in the Bay area or DC the highest they will go is 20-25% more than what I'm currently at. Couple that with the fact that my wife would have to quit her job it would be a loss in actual HH income and a huge loss in purchasing power.

[the_fixer]

Some of these people spending 100K+ may actually be much bigger social rebels in their worlds than some people living on under 25K. Who knows.

For me, the central theme of Mustachianism is critical thinking. It’s a willingness to look at what we are doing and an openness to see where we may be fooling ourselves.
I come here to have my thinking challenged.

Both of these. If someone hasn't lived in a HCOL area, in a job where others around them are making $200K+ (and therefore people around you know/assume correctly about your income), then they don't realize how difficult it is to cut against the grain. I've personally had conversations where people think I am an idiot for having an older/used car, condo with kids, etc. There isn't an easy conversational 'out' like "money is tight right now" like there is if you are in an area where most people are earning the median/below the median income of $60K in the US. When people around you know you can afford to buy "better" (newer, bigger, faster, more often, etc) it becomes more challenging to go against the grain.

Malkynn's point about critical thinking is spot on. Another way our fearless leader has said the same thing is 'mindful spending'.

I actually take great enjoyment in going against the grain in that situation :)

My BIL - you should by a big diesel truck so you can get a big camper like us instead of that tiny camper.

Me - nah I want to retire in X amount of months and you will still be working when you are 65 to pay for that 50k dollar truck you just purchased.

Most of the time people just assume we are broke or having trouble making ends meet and I am happy to let them think that.

Intentionality vs trying to fit makes all of the difference



Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[mm1970]

Someone making $300k and spending $100k will still FIRE faster than someone making 50k and spending 30k. Not to mention, many people with high incomes have higher costs associated with supporting their income. Especially childcare and schooling costs. My wife doesn’t work so we won’t have childcare costs, but if she did, to further our income, that would be an added cost. Many parents with higher incomes find value in sending their kids to more expensive daycare/schooling.

Plus, a lot of these higher incomes are associated with HCOL areas. They might pay 1 mil for a house in SF that might be $150k in Indiana. Many people make the high incomes simply because they also live in HCOL areas.

This forum and the general FIRE mentality is mostly reserved for higher income earners spending very modestly.

I guess I don't view spending 100k "modest" by any stretch of an imagination. There have been some awesome articles about tech employees living in RVs to save money. Even some of my co-workers have done that. It's a nice way to go to keep costs really low, since you are working all the time. I myself have rented out a BED, not a room but a BED, for $250/month to save costs in high COL areas. That was in Crystal City (Washington DC).

If you want to live the good life that is your choice and you have the money, I would never argue otherwise and in fact encourage it becuse it keeps the economy going, but that isn't really the premise of this site.

Man, I've got 2 kids.  No way in fucking hell I'm living in an RV with 2 kids. 

I have coworkers who have lived in a converted bus that was parked on a nearby lot for $200/month.  I have a coworker who used to live in a 5th wheel.  I have a coworker who lives in a toy hauler converted to a bed, basically (he showers at work and microwaves food), to save money. 

I also know that there is a lot of unwanted homelessness in this HCOL town.  My husband has seen families of 4 sleeping in their car in the early morning - and handing blankies out the window to put in the trunk before school.  Approximately 20% of the students in our school are considered homeless.

Having an actual roof over your head, running water, electricity - since when is that the good life??  You've got a pretty low bar man.

Fun fact: I used to live in Crystal City.

[mm1970]

Some of these people spending 100K+ may actually be much bigger social rebels in their worlds than some people living on under 25K. Who knows.

For me, the central theme of Mustachianism is critical thinking. It’s a willingness to look at what we are doing and an openness to see where we may be fooling ourselves.
I come here to have my thinking challenged.

Both of these. If someone hasn't lived in a HCOL area, in a job where others around them are making $200K+ (and therefore people around you know/assume correctly about your income), then they don't realize how difficult it is to cut against the grain. I've personally had conversations where people think I am an idiot for having an older/used car, condo with kids, etc. There isn't an easy conversational 'out' like "money is tight right now" like there is if you are in an area where most people are earning the median/below the median income of $60K in the US. When people around you know you can afford to buy "better" (newer, bigger, faster, more often, etc) it becomes more challenging to go against the grain.

Malkynn's point about critical thinking is spot on. Another way our fearless leader has said the same thing is 'mindful spending'.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been told to replace my 12 year old car, buy a bigger house, eat out more often, go on nice vacations, go SHOPPING!

At least being in Southern California, it helps that I can hide a bit behind being "crunchy" or "having 2 college educations to pay for some day".

[PiobStache]

Anyone that doesn't want to acknowledge going against social norms is not the easiest thing in the world is either lying or just one of those people that are not the typical social animal mankind has evolved to be.  I think the main point is LBYM no matter how much money one makes.  Granted, that's going to look different for someone making 400k a year in a moderate cost of living location vs. someone making 100k in a HCOL area but the principle is the same.  Let people LBYM their own way without being judgey I say.  Save that for the folks who do not have their finances under control.

[Roboturner]

It always bugs me when people include taxes as an expenditure, it's not, it's negative income. You never really had that money to begin with - you have to kick up to Uncle Sam - no choice in the matter.

[FireLane]

Our pretax household income has been about $300K, although it'll be lower this year because DW and I both went part-time in July.

Our spending is around $5000-$6000 a month. That doesn't include income taxes, I don't count that as spending, but it does include property taxes. No mortgage, it was paid off earlier this year.

Some of our major spending categories are:
* property taxes, condo maintenance and utilities (about $800 a month all told)
* charity ($600-$800 a month, some of which comes from a donor-advised fund we're building up)
* groceries ($500-600 a month, two adults and a toddler)
* commuting ($300 a month on train passes and commuter lot parking)
* dining out ($300-400 a month on average)
* travel & vacations (we've had a few weekend getaways this year and are planning one or two more, another $400 on average)

Daycare would have been on that list a few months ago, but we're doing our own childcare now that we're both working part-time. Other, smaller categories are home and personal care needs, car insurance, cell phone and internet, gym membership, medical copays, clothing, books, coffee, booze...

I don't think we live an extravagant life. Some of this is just the realities of living in an HCOL area, and we save a lot more than we spend. But I admit $6000 a month is higher than I'd like, and I'm trying to find ways to reduce it before we RE, especially because we'll have to pay for our own health insurance once we're no longer employed.

Obviously we won't have commuting expenses after retirement, and travel, charitable donations and restaurants we could reduce at will. Other things we could optimize are cable TV (going to cut the cord when our promo rate runs out, Netflix/Amazon Prime is basically all we watch), wireless service/phones (should probably switch to an MVNO), gym membership (should cancel and work out at home), coffee shops (facepunch!)... Really, we just have to be more vigilant about not letting little things slip through the net. None is excessive by itself, but together they add up.

[ATLAtty]

I make $200 in base and another $70-90 in variable comp, both gross.  I spend around $50 annually - around $36k is rent and utilities, and the rest is a mix of food/entertainment, travel, and other frivolities, in that order. I don’t budget anymore, but I do save around half my usual paycheck and all of my bonus. Could I live more cheaply? Sure. But I’m actually experimenting now,with spending more and trying to explore what more I might spend money on that would make me happier.

If I moved to a cheaper area, I’d be FI, but I’m pretty happy working for now.

[ixtap]

Most of those earning 200K+ will be in HCOL areas. What would make sense is a survey for just the non essential expenses (rent, home owner expenses, preschool or child care expenses and any others that depend on location). I would be interested in knowing how much you spend for entertainment, eating out, vacations, grocery, buying stuff etc...

We live in a HCOL. Last year we spent 48k.

-28k housing (marina fees + maintenance and upgrades)
-5k on the cars (gas, insurance, maintenance...)
-6k on groceries
-2k on health

That leaves about 8k for the fun stuff, including a yacht club, travelling on the boat (pretty cheap once the maintenance is down), clothes, phones, etc.

[ETBen]

Also surprised at the survey results. My monthly is 3700-4000 for me and 2 kids. We live in a HCOL but no car payment, public school, no childcare except summer camps. And no spouse so that income only needs to support 1 adult lol. I could do it with less mortgage too but we are tied to our location.

[obstinate]

Rent alone is more than 7k. That's having a walking commute and a guest room in NYC for ya. If we weren't both taking advantage of the commute and the really good school district, we'd live further out, but it's still not likely that we'd spend less than $5k on rent, so with after school care, groceries, insurance, communications, etc., it's not likely we'd ever get under $7k per month in this city. Spending basically looks like this:

Rent	30%
Child-care/Education	9%
Travel	3%
Food	2%
Everything Else (insurance, legal, general merchandise, etc.)	8%
Savings	46%

One important note is that for now, we've intentionally chosen to rent. I could definitely make these numbers sing a different tune by using my 'stache to buy a place here. That would cut my rent category to ~10% of my take-home (property taxes and maintenance), and so would boost our apparent savings rate. Except that now I'd have a lot less money in the stock market. So depending on what you think the housing market and the stock market are going to do, that could be a bad trade. This year would have been a fine year to own a house, considering we are only up 3% or so. Last year would not have been a good year to own.

[dude]

We are right at $30k per year spend, $2500 per month for a family of 4 including property taxes.  Last year's income was $230k.  In a good month we spend less than $2500, but I answered in the lowest bracket of the poll because there was no other choice.  Our two biggest monthly spends are food (around $700, but trying to get it lower) and utilities (around $400 all in, trying to get it down).

I didn't expect to be so . . . unusual?  on this forum . . . I'm surprised at the levels of spending listed here. Although obviously two huge game changers are whether you have a mortgage (we don't) and the cost of living where you live.  We are in a low-to-medium cost of living area, I would say.   High property values, low-ish taxes, medium cost on everything else.

We check both boxes (HCOL + mortgage), but we also travel a lot -- 3-5 international trips/year, plus 3-6 domestic (usually me solo heading west to climb and snowboard). I've never really kept an accurate record of what we spend annually on travel, but I figure it's got to be $12k-$15k. And worth every penny.

[DS]

It always bugs me when people include taxes as an expenditure, it's not, it's negative income. You never really had that money to begin with - you have to kick up to Uncle Sam - no choice in the matter.

Meta-accounting?

[dude]

We make a lot and spend a lot and save a lot.

This community is a much better fit for me than Bogleheads.  My introduction to FI came from "Your Money or Your Life" and I have an interest in simple, intentional living.  I find much more of that here than on other forums, although I realize that is not the forum's main focus.

Plus we are living well outside the norm of high income earners, even if our expenses are not cut to the bone.  I live in a 2 br condo with 2 kids, I drive a used Honda Fit, I pack my lunch for work every day and tote a reusable water bottle instead of buying drinks outside the home.

At some point, depending on where you live, the life tradeoff aspects of Mustachianism end up in direct conflict with the "spend as little as humanly possible" aspects of Mustachianism.  For example, we pay more to have shorter commutes because we live in the city.  I wouldn't trade that for a longer commute and a lower cost of living, because as dual income earners, our time with our family is at a premium.  And dual careers make it very hard to relocate outside of major U.S. cities, although we've considered it for the right set of circumstances.

Amen. Part of what enables a higher spend on our part is my defined benefit pension -- I simply don't have to save as much as the guy who has only a defined contribution plan (401k or the like), and yet I max out mine to the tune of $24,500/year (max + catch-ups; $32k+ with match), and wife maxes out hers as well ($18.5k). And we save a lot in other accounts (Roth and taxable), and we donate regularly and pretty generously to charity. But having that golden parachute at the end of the tunnel relieves me of the burden of having to save roughly an additional $2mil. That is huge. And yet we currently have north of $1.2million saved and invested. So we are not spending like drunken sailors on payday and living beyond our means. Far from it. I've learned a LOT from this website and forum, and cut a shit ton of wasteful spending as a result (my cell phone plan is $25/mo.!). But it just so happens we have a lot of money left over and I've got to work until age 54 to collect on that pension (a mere 8 months away, and oh by the way, I didn't start my career until I was 32), so we spend it on stuff that makes us happy, chief among them travel. We may not live up to The Savior's (!) example, but we're MILES ahead of the vast majority of people in this country when it comes to living within our means and FIRE'ing early.

[Bruin]

We make $240K and spend $35K living in a LCOL area for a household of three. No mortgage or car payment. Yes property tax and health/home/auto insurance

[MayDay]

Here are our actual numbers:

Total salary (2 working adults): 220, split pretty evenly
Monthly expenses:
Mortgage plus bills: 2000
Repairs to house: 400 (old houses = fairly regular multi thousand dollar expenses)
Food: 800 grocery, 100-200 restaurant (2 tweens plus 2 adults)
Childcare: 1800 in the summer including sleep away camp that is clearly a luxury. Would be about 1200 a month if we did babysitter and daycare split. 500 in the school year.
Kids activities, clothes, etc: 200
Gym: 100
Adult fun money: 200
Cars: 200-300 for gas, repairs, and insurance
Healthcare: 500+ a month plus the deduction for the premium,so more like 800 a month
Travel: 1000, split between vacation and H work travel (due to his moving away from job for my job, he pays for a trip every month).

That gives you 7000 a month. We save a similar amount.

I used to stay home and our income was half. We traveled less and had no childcare costs. Housing was less in a LCOL area, as was food. Me working about doubled our expenses,maybe not quite. Meh, it's worth it. We live in a great place,I enjoy my job, and we save more.

[EnjoyIt]

It always bugs me when people include taxes as an expenditure, it's not, it's negative income. You never really had that money to begin with - you have to kick up to Uncle Sam - no choice in the matter.

Meta-accounting?

Hold on there.  There are more ways to attempt to decrease taxes above the basic $18.5k 401k, HSA, and backdoor Roth.  This is especially true for those who are self employed.  Prior to all my tax deferred savings I was paying over $150k in taxes.  Now that number barely hits $100k.  Saving an extra $50k is a big deal.  Plus once FIRED taxes decrease significantly. 

[EnjoyIt]

I am so glad this thread was started.  I was one of the first ones who posted and embarrassingly confused to spending $25k on travel.  Now that this thread is out and people have posted some real figures I will admit to spending about $12k per month which includes mortgage, very low interest rate school loans and does not include taxes. 

What I find amazing is that we spend more on taxes every year than we do on ourselves.

[Dancin'Dog]

Although I don't fit into many of the MMM categories I come here to learn and really enjoy the group.


This thread has been particularly interesting and I appreciate everyone for taking the time to share their income & spending information.  We all choose different paths in life and it's great to hear others unique perspectives. 


It would be interesting to read a thread of the FI > $200K income folks about their annual spending.  Most of the folks that I know that reach that level can't seem to retire, because their spending habits scare them.  ;)

[redhead84]

Mid 30s, married, no kids, MCOL. Gross income will be approximately $220-$225K for 2018. Our spend averages about $3,800/mo (with a lot of fat in the budget).

Mortgage P&I - $0
Property Taxes - $450
Auto - $300
Food - $1,000
Travel - $500
Entertainment - $300
Gym - $80
Utilities - $250
Charity/Gifts - $100
Everything Else - $820

From a net perspective we have the following breakout -
22% Tax (we are two CPA's so this is as optimized as possible)
21% Spend
57% Save

[EnjoyIt]

Although I don't fit into many of the MMM categories I come here to learn and really enjoy the group.


This thread has been particularly interesting and I appreciate everyone for taking the time to share their income & spending information.  We all choose different paths in life and it's great to hear others unique perspectives. 


It would be interesting to read a thread of the FI > $200K income folks about their annual spending.  Most of the folks that I know that reach that level can't seem to retire, because their spending habits scare them.  ;)

Nice comment.  I will agree that the golden handcuffs are very real.  This becomes even more so when your net worth is hitting the multi million range.  Every one more year adds signifiant wealth and increased spending capabilities but at some point one must decide is working more worth the increased spending?  Looks like many on this thread are spending $80k-$100k per year.  If we consider that a high income professional is saving $80k/yr a $2 million portfolio at 5% return will be $3 million in just 5 years or $4.3 million in 10 years.  Without the insight this forum brings about happiness and spending it is very easy to fall in that trap and just keep plowing away to make more money. 

We are currently at 25x if you exclude our mortgage and school loans both of which are at a very very low rate and we have no desire to pay it off quickly.  We will be going part time at the end of this year because this community has taught us that spending any more than we do now will add very little value for us.  We still like our jobs and enjoy going to work but don't want work to be our entire lives.  This is our attempt of breaking free of the golden handcuffs and see what the other side is like.  Who knows, we may like it and FIRE completely in 2 years.

[IllusionNW]

We have very high incomes but live in a HCOL area as well.

Back in the day, when it was just me and DH, we were probably making about $250k gross.  And we were saving a ton.  Our main expense was (and is) about $3k/month for our mortgage/property tax/interest, etc.  Other than that we were pretty frugal and saved a lot of money and used it as a down payment on a five-plex in a HCOL area.

Fast forward a couple of years and guess what?  Kids totally mess up the equation.  We now spend about $4k/month on childcare.  That's more than our mortgage!  We save about the same amount in the end, since our income has gone up a bit, but it's still disheartening.  But on almost everything else, we're pretty frugal.

Our mortgage and childcare alone are $7k/month.  That seems pretty absurd, even to me.  But we live in a small 1600 square foot townhome style house.  And childcare in our city is super expensive.  That's just the reality of our lives right now.  We're on the path to FIRE and will fatFIRE in our early 40s.  And that's ok with us.  There's really no way we can decrease these fixed costs without making sacrifices that we've already decided aren't worth making based on our own values.

But I can't help but look back nostalgically at the time when we were DINKs and really socking away the savings.  I can't wait for the day when we aren't paying as much for childcare.

[EnjoyIt]

We have very high incomes but live in a HCOL area as well.

Back in the day, when it was just me and DH, we were probably making about $250k gross.  And we were saving a ton.  Our main expense was (and is) about $3k/month for our mortgage/property tax/interest, etc.  Other than that we were pretty frugal and saved a lot of money and used it as a down payment on a five-plex in a HCOL area.

Fast forward a couple of years and guess what?  Kids totally mess up the equation.  We now spend about $4k/month on childcare.  That's more than our mortgage!  We save about the same amount in the end, since our income has gone up a bit, but it's still disheartening.  But on almost everything else, we're pretty frugal.

Our mortgage and childcare alone are $7k/month.  That seems pretty absurd, even to me.  But we live in a small 1600 square foot townhome style house.  And childcare in our city is super expensive.  That's just the reality of our lives right now.  We're on the path to FIRE and will fatFIRE in our early 40s.  And that's ok with us.  There's really no way we can decrease these fixed costs without making sacrifices that we've already decided aren't worth making based on our own values.

But I can't help but look back nostalgically at the time when we were DINKs and really socking away the savings.  I can't wait for the day when we aren't paying as much for childcare.

@IllusionNW

If you don't mind sharing though, can you please let the community know where the $4k a month is going for child care.

[mizzourah2006]

Our mortgage and childcare alone are $7k/month.

yup, our PITI and childcare account for about 55% of our yearly expenses. It's gonna be a pretty big raise in 4-5 years when both are in elementary school :)

[BeanCounter]

Although I don't fit into many of the MMM categories I come here to learn and really enjoy the group.


This thread has been particularly interesting and I appreciate everyone for taking the time to share their income & spending information.  We all choose different paths in life and it's great to hear others unique perspectives. 


It would be interesting to read a thread of the FI > $200K income folks about their annual spending.  Most of the folks that I know that reach that level can't seem to retire, because their spending habits scare them.  ;)

+1 this is us. We are 40 and 41, married with two kids (ages 9 and 6). We make $225k together and are FI for our current basic monthly spending (without tuition and travel). What scares us is the kids expenses seem to keep increasing right now. We are currently paying for private school, martial arts, band, orthodontics, expensive camps and private tutors. And we love to travel with them. We don't buy them stuff, heck they share a room! But they are spoiled with experiences. I feel like we can work so we should do so and provide them these things. I will likely quit my job in the next year or two but DH will continue to make sure that health insurance, kids education and activities, and travel.
I've always had trouble reconciling myself with this as I don't think it's right for me to tell my kids they can't do band or sports because Dad and I decided to FIRE.

[MayDay]

If you have two kids in a center it will be 4k in most HCOL cities.

[onlykelsey]

If you have two kids in a center it will be 4k in most HCOL cities.

The quote from the brand name center for my one kid was 3,200 in Manhattan.  Say 6K if you have two kids in daycare (slightly cheaper as they get older).  We pay "only" 2200 and change for a family-style smaller one, but that's still our biggest line item.

[honeybbq]

We have very high incomes but live in a HCOL area as well.

Back in the day, when it was just me and DH, we were probably making about $250k gross.  And we were saving a ton.  Our main expense was (and is) about $3k/month for our mortgage/property tax/interest, etc.  Other than that we were pretty frugal and saved a lot of money and used it as a down payment on a five-plex in a HCOL area.

Fast forward a couple of years and guess what?  Kids totally mess up the equation.  We now spend about $4k/month on childcare.  That's more than our mortgage!  We save about the same amount in the end, since our income has gone up a bit, but it's still disheartening.  But on almost everything else, we're pretty frugal.

Our mortgage and childcare alone are $7k/month.  That seems pretty absurd, even to me.  But we live in a small 1600 square foot townhome style house.  And childcare in our city is super expensive.  That's just the reality of our lives right now.  We're on the path to FIRE and will fatFIRE in our early 40s.  And that's ok with us.  There's really no way we can decrease these fixed costs without making sacrifices that we've already decided aren't worth making based on our own values.

But I can't help but look back nostalgically at the time when we were DINKs and really socking away the savings.  I can't wait for the day when we aren't paying as much for childcare.

@IllusionNW

If you don't mind sharing though, can you please let the community know where the $4k a month is going for child care.

In a daycare center in Seattle, a newborn is $2500/month. My 5 year old was $1600. So glad she started school. Now after care is "only" $500/month not counting the $100/day when there's no school, or the $300-500/week care during vacations and summer.

[Dancin'Dog]

Does Vanguard have a Daycare ETF?  ;)  Sounds like a damn good investment!

[IllusionNW]

We have very high incomes but live in a HCOL area as well.

Back in the day, when it was just me and DH, we were probably making about $250k gross.  And we were saving a ton.  Our main expense was (and is) about $3k/month for our mortgage/property tax/interest, etc.  Other than that we were pretty frugal and saved a lot of money and used it as a down payment on a five-plex in a HCOL area.

Fast forward a couple of years and guess what?  Kids totally mess up the equation.  We now spend about $4k/month on childcare.  That's more than our mortgage!  We save about the same amount in the end, since our income has gone up a bit, but it's still disheartening.  But on almost everything else, we're pretty frugal.

Our mortgage and childcare alone are $7k/month.  That seems pretty absurd, even to me.  But we live in a small 1600 square foot townhome style house.  And childcare in our city is super expensive.  That's just the reality of our lives right now.  We're on the path to FIRE and will fatFIRE in our early 40s.  And that's ok with us.  There's really no way we can decrease these fixed costs without making sacrifices that we've already decided aren't worth making based on our own values.

But I can't help but look back nostalgically at the time when we were DINKs and really socking away the savings.  I can't wait for the day when we aren't paying as much for childcare.

@IllusionNW

If you don't mind sharing though, can you please let the community know where the $4k a month is going for child care.

We have a full time nanny.  We live in an area where center based care would be about $2500/month per child.  Instead, we decided to hire a nanny who speaks my family's native language, so our kids will grow up to be bilingual.  The nanny also does our laundry (and actually folds it!), loads and unloads the dishwasher, and picks up every night before she leaves.  And we don't have to try and pack up our kiddos to take them to and from a child care center. 

I often say that the nanny is the other woman in my marriage.  I think I would separate from my husband before I separated from the nanny.  She's a real integral part of our family.

The $4k/month also includes our portion of employment taxes, since we pay her above the table.  So we pay Social Security, Medicare, unemployment taxes, etc. on her wages.

[Slow2FIRE]

Responding to this poll highlights how far from the mainstream MMM is from "normal" high earners.

We gross about $240k, spend $70k (including property tax and condo fees, but no mortgage), and save $140k each year.  If the people at my work knew how much we saved, they would fall over.  On this forum, it's the next-to-last radio button on the poll!

We do have a family of four, and pay an absurd amount in property tax (over $10k), but this is where our expenses settled after four years of MMM.  We got it down about $15k lower at one point, but it felt a little too restrictive for my wife.

Maybe you were just being very generous with rounding and such, but how do you only pay $30,000/yr in Fed income tax, local income tax, social security tax, and medicare tax?

Granted, we are dual income, so that means we are maxing social security taxes x2 and if your HH income is from only one earner that would mean 1/2 the social security taxes we pay, but still - it seems like you would be paying $30,000 minimum just in federal income taxes alone (we are at about $32,000 federal income tax per year with two maxed 401Ks and two maxed individual HSAs...and then you add on social security, medicare and state taxes).

[Megs193]

I took this poll expecting to be in the minority and was pleasantly surprised when I wasn’t. We make just under 500k a year and we spend 10k-11k a month. Half of that is our mortgage which will be gone in 3-4 years.  I did a case study a month ago and a lot of people commented on how insane our spending was.  We still save over half of our income and live way below our means compares to our peers.  We make travel and experiences with our kids a priority and are happy to spend money on those things.  I sometimes feel like a fraud on this forum because of how much money we spend!

[mm1970]

If you have two kids in a center it will be 4k in most HCOL cities.

Even where I live, FT infant care is $1600-1800 a month, in a center.

If you can get a spot.

I think there are only 4 centers in the entire area (two cities, about 200,000 people) that do infant care.

There are home daycares, which is what we used.  But those aren't any cheaper.  $350-400 a week.

[india dark ale]

We have a joint income of between 800k and 900k. Our monthly expenses are around 15k.

[obstinate]

If you have two kids in a center it will be 4k in most HCOL cities.

The quote from the brand name center for my one kid was 3,200 in Manhattan.

There are very decent daycare centers in Manhattan that charge a good deal less than that. Preschool of America for example.

[LadyMaWhiskers]

Approximately....

$2000 for housing (taxes, HOA, utilities, cleaning, maintenance, repairs)
$2000 for childcare
$2000 for everything else

There’s next to no frugality in my budget. And all the rest of my income goes to taxes, pre-tax deductions, and mortgage paydown.

[big_slacker]

Wow... I'm blown away by how much people on this forum in this income bracket spend. 

I know I'm unusual for the general population, but I didn't expect to be unusual here.

I live in a HCOL area, but rent a modest apartment and do not own a car.  My annual spend last year was $23,500, so a bit under $2k/month. All (after tax) income in excess was saved and invested...

Well, you shouldn't be surprised. You're a single person that rents a (presumably) small apartment and doesn't own a car. Your total monthly is less than half my mortgage. And BTW, my house is considered affordable for the area. That's what I mean when I say HCOL area. ;)

All of that to say consider what these monthly expense numbers mean in proper context, don't assume they mean spending like a drunken sailor.

Also keep in mind that many of us who live in these areas and have these outrageous sounding salaries are using them to build big staches, big equity and plan on FIRE somewhere more reasonable when ready. In my case when the kids are off on their own.

[twe]

Income approx $250k for dual income house with 2 small children, 38/37 years old. After tax monthly income after maxing 401k and SEP IRA ~$12000.

Mortgage-$1200
Food-~$600
Charity-$1,000 (education, medicine, child welfare)
Vehicles-$600 (1 car payment, insurance, taxes, electricity for 2 PHEV's)
Health insurance / expenses-$260
Utilities (minus electricity for PHEV's) - $140, for natural gas, water, trash, remaining electricity
cell phones-$130
Misc: ~$1,000
Roughly $6-7k in taxable savings each month, not including 4 investment properties which are cash flow positive.
Our travel cut way back once we had little ones-it's just too disruptive on them, as travel inevitable disrupts schedules which = miserableness for them and thus us.

We've only been at something close to this income for 2 years, although my savings rate has always been >30% (not so for DW before marriage). Absolute longest term, I've got 10 more years but that's to buy the beach house and provide certainty around taking care of our parents. Spending will remain at roughly the same level, but will be >100% covered after 60/62 by pensions.

Our net worth today, depending on real estate valuation, is around $1.2M: Roughly 700k tax deferred, 150k taxable/cash, 350 real estate across 4 rentals and our residence (All 5 in LCOL areas).  We may inherit something eventually, but aren't counting on it (it would be only a fraction of our current NW) and hope we're a long way off from it.

[bryan995]

Family of 3, HCOL CA

188k+120k dual income ($308K).
Max 401k (18000x2), IRA (5500x2), DCFSA (5000), HSA (5000), ESPP (21000)

We don’t budget anymore, only track via mint and face punch at the end of every month.
Lot of fat in our current average monthly ‘budget’. Fighting the convenience inflation post baby.

We budget off base salaries and save all rsu/bonus/espp.

2/2 rental - $2700
Daycare - $1600
Food - $700
Household/Costco - $300
Restaurants - $250
Work lunch - $150
Gym/personal - $200
Amazon - $300
Gas - $75
Travel - $200
Insurance - $200
Utilities/phone/Internet - $400
———————————
$7,075/mo | $84,900/yr

Using the above as another facepunch to do some trimming.

[MrUpwardlyMobile]

It always bugs me when people include taxes as an expenditure, it's not, it's negative income. You never really had that money to begin with - you have to kick up to Uncle Sam - no choice in the matter.

There are a lot of legal ways to impact your tax burden.  I live outside two cities principally to avoid owing city income taxes.  We put tons more in dw’s Retirement account to reduce taxable income.  We immediately opened a 529 for our dd, which reduced state taxes.

[onlykelsey]

If you have two kids in a center it will be 4k in most HCOL cities.

The quote from the brand name center for my one kid was 3,200 in Manhattan.

There are very decent daycare centers in Manhattan that charge a good deal less than that. Preschool of America for example.

Thanks. looked them up but they seem to hide the actual tuition.  Someone from three years ago posted they paid 1100 for their four year old in Brooklyn... if the prices scale the same for a baby the age of mine, maybe it'd be 1800?  Something to look in to.

[MrUpwardlyMobile]

If you have two kids in a center it will be 4k in most HCOL cities.

The quote from the brand name center for my one kid was 3,200 in Manhattan.

There are very decent daycare centers in Manhattan that charge a good deal less than that. Preschool of America for example.

Thanks. looked them up but they seem to hide the actual tuition.  Someone from three years ago posted they paid 1100 for their four year old in Brooklyn... if the prices scale the same for a baby the age of mine, maybe it'd be 1800?  Something to look in to.

Daycare in nyc is basically $2600+ for a properly insured and licensed place.  It really only gets cheaper if you’re doing an out of an apartment daycare or dropping your kid off for 3 days a week or doing 9-3 type hours.

[Paul der Krake]

Silly question: does it matter whether your daycare is licensed? I understand not wanting to send your kids to a methhead, but how is that different from leaving them with an unlicensed family member?

[MayDay]

Silly question: does it matter whether your daycare is licensed? I understand not wanting to send your kids to a methhead, but how is that different from leaving them with an unlicensed family member?

There may be issues using the childcare reimbursement benefit through work if they aren't licensed (especially if they aren't reporting the income).

It just depends what you are comfortable with. If it is licensed someone is checking the house for fire exits, safe cribs, background checking people living in the house,etc. If you know the daycare person well enough to trust all that, then it doesn't matter.

[obstinate]

Daycare in nyc is basically $2600+ for a properly insured and licensed place.  It really only gets cheaper if you’re doing an out of an apartment daycare or dropping your kid off for 3 days a week or doing 9-3 type hours.

Preschool of America was $2100/mo over the previous school year for full day (8-6).

[CornF18]

$700k gross income.  Just the 2 of us (52, 48).  $235k taxes.  $125k expenses.  So about $340k savings.  LCOL area.  We aren't frugal, but certainly don't live up to our income.  Should be FI in 3 years and might RE.

[MrUpwardlyMobile]

Silly question: does it matter whether your daycare is licensed? I understand not wanting to send your kids to a methhead, but how is that different from leaving them with an unlicensed family member?

Unlicensed day care in New York can be shut down and then you have nothing and you’re stranded in a city where day cares slots are not easy to get and expensive and may take months to replace....  or you find out your kid is being kept in an asbestos ridden death trap or a place that has rats...

[randomstring]

If you have two kids in a center it will be 4k in most HCOL cities.

The quote from the brand name center for my one kid was 3,200 in Manhattan.

There are very decent daycare centers in Manhattan that charge a good deal less than that. Preschool of America for example.

Thanks. looked them up but they seem to hide the actual tuition.  Someone from three years ago posted they paid 1100 for their four year old in Brooklyn... if the prices scale the same for a baby the age of mine, maybe it'd be 1800?  Something to look in to.

Daycare in nyc is basically $2600+ for a properly insured and licensed place.  It really only gets cheaper if you’re doing an out of an apartment daycare or dropping your kid off for 3 days a week or doing 9-3 type hours.

We used TLE a few years back. About 1k cheaper for older kids. None of them list prices -- you need to call and ask. And then ask about discounts -- ours had silly discounts for early payment and for having multiple families from one employer enroll their kids. Had to bug hr to get latter activated.

[mak1277]

Wow... I'm blown away by how much people on this forum in this income bracket spend. 

I know I'm unusual for the general population, but I didn't expect to be unusual here.

I live in a HCOL area, but rent a modest apartment and do not own a car.  My annual spend last year was $23,500, so a bit under $2k/month. All (after tax) income in excess was saved and invested...

I'm blown away that more people in this forum in general, and this high income bracket specifically, don't give more money to charity.  I know this is going to come off braggy, but charity has been my highest annual expense for the last 4 years (more than you spend in total every year GP).  Quit being a miser and give some of that money away!