Author Topic: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?  (Read 11190 times)

FI-42

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Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« on: April 17, 2016, 06:07:14 AM »
Hi All,

I've been headhunted for a new position as work and I have accepted it, but when the salary negotiations came round basically they said it will be the same pay.  I know that I'm paid less than a lot of my peers, and that our company generally makes us work much harder whilst paying less than the market rates.  Excepting for that, it's actually a really great place to work, but years of below inflation pay rises and this recent job that I've been head hunted for along with the salary negotiations has left really pissed off.  So much that I might hand my notice in tomorrow.  We have enough cash to last a year or so assuming my SO keeps working.

I have a few opportunities that I've been investigating.  One is less pay but more satisfying work, and has the potential to lead onto better and more interesting things, on top of that they will offer to pay to study my masters.  The other is a similar role to what I am currently doing, but with a 20% increase in basic pay.

What should I do?  Like I said, I'm thinking of handing in my notice, just to see the reaction, and then carry it through if they don't give me what I want.  Should I sit it out and wait for some firm offers before I 'go nuclear.'

frugal_c

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2016, 06:43:13 AM »
I would get another job first.   With another job in hand you could see if your current employer will give you a counter offer.   It is generally harder to find jobs if you don't already have a job so stay where you are for the time being.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2016, 08:19:41 AM »
Find another job first, at a different company. You need to be prepared to follow through with a threat to quit. If you're unemployed, your offers at external companies likely won't be as high, and hiring managers can be suspicious about someone who's not currently working.

What sort of negotiating did you do for this new position? It sounds like they offered the same pay, and you angrily accepted it. It's harder to negotiate for internal changes, but not impossible.

FI-42

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2016, 09:36:15 AM »
I'm afraid I went about the negotiations very poorly, because I've never really asked for a pay rise.  I didn't angrily accept it but, but I was very surprised to be told that there was no room for movement on pay.  On reflection it made me angry because they've cherry picked me from within the business - this is after the job went out and an interview process after which they didn't find the right candidate.  I think it's quite political internally for managers to get pay rises for their staff, but my current boss (not new one) said he would get me the pay rise that I was after about 2 months ago - I wasn't even asking for a lot, just enough to bring me back to what I was earning in real terms 4 years ago.  This experience has pretty much destroyed my motivation.

You guys are right - I need to have some firm offers in hand before I go back to them.

Vilgan

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2016, 10:08:20 AM »
People will frequently match/exceed offers you have in hand and try to keep you. If you are leaving w/o a firm offer elsewhere, that's something they won't understand and will probably just shrug and let you go. Similarly, when applying elsewhere: having a job you are happy w/ is leverage for you. Having given up a job and being currently unemployed is leverage for them and will make it harder to negotiate.

Go job hunt while still employed and get an offer in hand. If you want some time off because you can afford it, just have a gap between the two. Most companies will be happy to wait a bit.

MonkeyJenga

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2016, 10:22:12 AM »
I'm afraid I went about the negotiations very poorly, because I've never really asked for a pay rise.  I didn't angrily accept it but, but I was very surprised to be told that there was no room for movement on pay.  On reflection it made me angry because they've cherry picked me from within the business - this is after the job went out and an interview process after which they didn't find the right candidate.  I think it's quite political internally for managers to get pay rises for their staff, but my current boss (not new one) said he would get me the pay rise that I was after about 2 months ago - I wasn't even asking for a lot, just enough to bring me back to what I was earning in real terms 4 years ago.  This experience has pretty much destroyed my motivation.

It sounds like you were in the perfect spot to squeeze them for more money. You were their only viable candidate! They came after you! Was this a lateral move? I can't imagine a promotion would result in no raise at all. If lateral, why did you take it? Have you made the switch yet? There may still be an opportunity to negotiate some sort of time-bound raise. Even if you end up leaving, you can use that promise of a raise as leverage against external offers.

Don't get mad at the company, though. It's not personal, and it does you no good to react emotionally to something like this. Learn from it. You now know that you should never accept the first offer, that it's easier to get a raise if you switch companies, and that you should brush up on your negotiating skills. Good luck!

RobFIRE

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2016, 01:04:24 AM »
Like I said, I'm thinking of handing in my notice, just to see the reaction

It's natural to feel angry and aggrieved if you feel that you're significantly underpaid, so to want some form of revenge. I don't think this is the smart move though. If I did this at my work my management would not like it  - you are trying to force them to do something - and would likely disagree with me anyway: you are effectively telling them that they are wrong as they have incorrectly valued your work. Few people like to be told they are wrong, few will admit it.

Should I sit it out and wait for some firm offers before I 'go nuclear.'

You don't say what form of salary negotiation there was for the new role. I would either politely resume the negotiations explaining that while you would like the new role it is additional responsibility so you would like the compensation to go with it. Or depending on your circumstances you can politely say/somewhat make up that your family is tight on money due to xxx reasonable things, so at the same time as the role change would like to discuss salary.

If softly softly doesn't work then it's clearly best to have another offer in hand before resigning. Why? Because then you have proof that another employer has offered you more (it's not just your opinion that you're worth more) and your current employer knows you#re not bluffing. Before that point decide on what conditions you will stay (you say the current workplace is a great place to work, so you may accept less than the full 20%).

Sibley

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2016, 11:31:11 AM »
It is quite common, and shortsighted, of companies to give small or no raises to their current employees. Why is it short sighted? Because they get offers for more money elsewhere, and leave. Then they have to hire someone at current market rates, and train them. So it's a lot more expensive for them than just paying you market rates!

AZDude

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2016, 11:37:00 AM »
Quote
I think it's quite political internally for managers to get pay rises for their staff, but my current boss (not new one) said he would get me the pay rise that I was after about 2 months ago - I wasn't even asking for a lot, just enough to bring me back to what I was earning in real terms 4 years ago.  This experience has pretty much destroyed my motivation.

I have heard this one before and took my supervisors word that I would get the pay raise. Long story short, I was later told it was not happening. I was very angry. I actually ended up getting a small raise about a year later.

Things to take away:
1) That promised raise may or may not materialize.
2) If your market value is higher than your current salary, go get another job.
3) Consider this a lesson in the larger scheme of the business world. You perform a service for an agreed upon rate of pay. You owe the company nothing other than an honest day of work and they owe you nothing other than the agreed upon pay and benefits. If a pay raise/benefit is not in writing, it might as well not exist.

mm1970

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2016, 12:50:17 PM »
Quote
I think it's quite political internally for managers to get pay rises for their staff, but my current boss (not new one) said he would get me the pay rise that I was after about 2 months ago - I wasn't even asking for a lot, just enough to bring me back to what I was earning in real terms 4 years ago.  This experience has pretty much destroyed my motivation.

I have heard this one before and took my supervisors word that I would get the pay raise. Long story short, I was later told it was not happening. I was very angry. I actually ended up getting a small raise about a year later.

Things to take away:
1) That promised raise may or may not materialize.
2) If your market value is higher than your current salary, go get another job.
3) Consider this a lesson in the larger scheme of the business world. You perform a service for an agreed upon rate of pay. You owe the company nothing other than an honest day of work and they owe you nothing other than the agreed upon pay and benefits. If a pay raise/benefit is not in writing, it might as well not exist.
Smart info here.

I'm not sure I fully understand the issue though.  You've been headhunted for a new position within your company?

If so, that makes more sense.  (I was trying to figure out how you were headhunted from outside the company but not given more money).

In any event, I've seen THAT happen more than once - to people who get promoted but don't get a salary increase, then the salary increase never comes.

If I were you, I'd decide which position you'd prefer.  If the new job at the old pay is going to be a hassle, then don't take it.

I wouldn't quit though.  I'd quietly do my job and look for a new one.  And then leave.  Don't use a new job just to get a raise - you have to actually be willing to go and to want the job.

FI-42

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2016, 02:50:23 PM »
Quote
I think it's quite political internally for managers to get pay rises for their staff, but my current boss (not new one) said he would get me the pay rise that I was after about 2 months ago - I wasn't even asking for a lot, just enough to bring me back to what I was earning in real terms 4 years ago.  This experience has pretty much destroyed my motivation.

I have heard this one before and took my supervisors word that I would get the pay raise. Long story short, I was later told it was not happening. I was very angry. I actually ended up getting a small raise about a year later.

Things to take away:
1) That promised raise may or may not materialize.
2) If your market value is higher than your current salary, go get another job.
3) Consider this a lesson in the larger scheme of the business world. You perform a service for an agreed upon rate of pay. You owe the company nothing other than an honest day of work and they owe you nothing other than the agreed upon pay and benefits. If a pay raise/benefit is not in writing, it might as well not exist.
Smart info here.

I'm not sure I fully understand the issue though.  You've been headhunted for a new position within your company?

If so, that makes more sense.  (I was trying to figure out how you were headhunted from outside the company but not given more money).

In any event, I've seen THAT happen more than once - to people who get promoted but don't get a salary increase, then the salary increase never comes.

If I were you, I'd decide which position you'd prefer.  If the new job at the old pay is going to be a hassle, then don't take it.

I wouldn't quit though.  I'd quietly do my job and look for a new one.  And then leave.  Don't use a new job just to get a raise - you have to actually be willing to go and to want the job.

Hi mm1970.  That's right, it's within the same company.  I've calmed down a bit now, and I have realized that all this is my fault for being so poor at negotiating.  I've managed to take a strong position and not do anything with it - more because I was expecting something good to happen rather than engineering it.  It's a powerful lesson on how not to go about business, and also goes to show that loyalty isn't what it's cracked up to be.  The opportunity itself is a good one, and is something I would like to do over my current role.

svndezafrohman

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2016, 04:43:11 PM »
If I were you I would hand them a resignation letter in tomorrow.

Since you said you have 2 options available, i see nothing to worry about. If you can buffer a year without having to work, then you have plenty of time to look for the job that suites you.

Just don't get cold footed when they try to keep you with a better offer.

FI-42

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 11:45:25 AM »
If I were you I would hand them a resignation letter in tomorrow.

Since you said you have 2 options available, i see nothing to worry about. If you can buffer a year without having to work, then you have plenty of time to look for the job that suites you.

Just don't get cold footed when they try to keep you with a better offer.

Notes taken.  I have an informal interview on Thursday, so let's see what becomes of that and then go back with some ammo.

I do have a few more questions though.

Should I go back to my employer once I have a firm offer and ask if they can make a better offer than what I currently have first?  Do I wait to sign a contract, or shall I just hand my notice in and see the reaction?  Many thanks all for your advice

BFGirl

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2016, 12:25:12 PM »
If you want to keep the current job you are in, then I would use an offer as a negotiating tool.  If you don't really care, then hand in your notice and be happy with however it plays out.

WSUCoug1994

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2016, 12:57:01 PM »
I am an Executive Recruiter for 20 years - here are my thoughts
- don't feel too bad - most people are not savvy negotiators especially for themselves.  If you don't have a strong plan you will likely fail to achieve the outcome you desire.
- if you plan to keep working - do not quit your job until you have another one.  It is much easier to get a job when you have one.
- IMO it is not a sound strategy to get another offer to use as a tool for negotiation.  Once you quit and accept a counter offer you will likely be working at a different company in six months (so says the data).  People don't like to be threatened and it usually has a profound impact on your relationships as well as your opportunities for growth at work.
- if you want to take time off - it will likely work against you in terms of making more money.  You have little leverage when you are unemployed to raise your income level.
- it was mentioned in an earlier comment but a promised raise in the future is the same as no raise.  If they aren't willing to do it now the are likely not willing to do it six months from now.


I will make one last comment here that many people will likely not agree with.  Unless you are in a unique situation where you are able to have an impact on the greater good the point of having a job is to make money.  Now this is complex topic because job satisfaction is important to your overall emotional health but the non-FIRE primary earning years are 45-55.  You want to maximize your return on your career investment so that you are earning the most amount of money for hours invested (in a perfect world).  20% is significant but at what cost?  hard to tell until you take the risk and try it out but in the effort of maximizing your ROI it is important to consider all options.  If you are underpaid in your current role you have no one to blame.  You have the tools and capabilities to change it if you want but it will require some risk taking.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 01:07:29 PM by WSUCoug1994 »

FI-42

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Re: Thinking of quitting - is it the right thing to do?
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2016, 02:07:20 PM »
WSUCoug1994 - that insight is absolutely golden.  Many thanks.  I currently generally work quite long hours, so I can't imagine a change would be much worse.

 

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