Things You Value that you'll pay for*

[Le0]

A discussion about cleaning services over in the 'overheard at work' thread got me thinking. The largest hurdle I have to jump when trying to convince friends and family that they shouldn't spend money when they don't have to is 'value'. They tell me "I value living 30mins from work - because I like the country" or "I value going out for dinner each month".

In the case of the cleaning services, there are times where the value outweighs the cost. So the question is what things do Readers of MMM value more than money in this way. Maybe its a Sunday Drive, or ice cream each Friday. Or maybe its more expensive like the yearly vacation or new cars always!

My next questions are why do you attach value to that thing? Could you live without it? How does it effect the net worth or bottom line in your financial life?

Looking forward to the answers.

[arebelspy]

Quick clarification requested.

The title seems to be asking one question - what do you value more than money - and I'd expect some answers like "love, family, freedom, autonomy, health, etc. etc."

The post seems to be asking a different question - what do you value enough to pay for it, though others might not?  (Your examples, like "A Sunday Drive" aren't necessarily valued more than money, but valued enough to spend the money on.  This could include things "an iPad" or "traveling X times per year" or "donating large amounts of money" or whatever.)

Is it the latter you mean (which sounds more interesting, frankly, as the former tends to lead to cliches), or the former?

[shamelessHedon]

I value controlling my own schedule. This costs, in a sense, because I don't have a normal 9-5.

I value travel. (Travel writing is one of my hustles, so some costs are deductible or comped.) 

I value my spouse's happiness,  which means spending on a few thing I don't care for, like cable during sports season.

[BPA]

I find the closer I get to retirement (freedom), the less I want to spend money on things I used to.

So, I used to value using a grocery delivery service and think it was worth the money during the winter, but lately I've taken to calculating how much more that service was costing me and think, "Not worth it."  Yesterday I spent 43% of what I would have by shopping at the discount grocery store instead of using the grocery service.  That was impressive to me.  I'd feel that way about cleaning services too where I would spend no money at all and just a bit of time (since my house is fairly small and doesn't take much to clean). 

About now the only thing I spend money on where I could save and retire earlier is city bus fare.  When the weather is terrible (ie freezing rain) and I can't bear the thought of cycling or walking, I take the bus.

[Le0]

Quick clarification requested.

The title seems to be asking one question - what do you value more than money - and I'd expect some answers like "love, family, freedom, autonomy, health, etc. etc."

The post seems to be asking a different question - what do you value enough to pay for it, though others might not?  (Your examples, like "A Sunday Drive" aren't necessarily valued more than money, but valued enough to spend the money on.  This could include things "an iPad" or "traveling X times per year" or "donating large amounts of money" or whatever.)

Is it the latter you mean (which sounds more interesting, frankly, as the former tends to lead to cliches), or the former?

The latter

[ace1224]

living close to my family, i earn far less than i could if i lived in a bigger city or in another state.

i value convenience, so sometimes i'll pay more for something because it's easier, faster, closer, means i don't have to do it, etc.  whatever the thing is, whether it be a cleaning service or take out, or paying someone to do something for me, its worth it when i feel stretched out and just don't have the time or inclination to do it.

and my glasses.  i like to buy fun glasses that are sometimes a little spendy. 

obviously i could live without all of those things.  the one that matters the most to me is living close to my mom and dad.  there isn't an amount of money that can make me move away from them unless i HAD to due to job loss or something.  and even then i would take a job i was over qualified for to stay close.  this means i'll have to work longer but i don't care about RE i really only care about FI so its not that big of a deal. 

[secondcor521]

For me the only thing really is paying for my kids' college educations.  I know the typical advice is save for retirement first and then for your kids' college if you want to.  In my case, because my parents paid for my college education, I feel I would somehow be taking advantage of things if I elected to retire even earlier and not pay that forward.

I guess the other thing I also did when I realized I was on track to be FI around age 45 (which I consider "early enough" for me) was to take each of my kids on a "special trip" - anywhere in the world they wanted to go for about a week.  A little expensive, but worth it to me.

Now that both of those items are done and/or paid for, the only things I really spend money on now are legally required things like taxes and child support, and the basic necessities of life (food, water, shelter, clothes, transportation, insurance).

[Rural]

I'll second the pets, though our dogs at least do add value (they're hunting dogs, after all), so even as we feed them, they help to feed us. They also scare the bejesus out of the local methheads. The cats, though, are just pets, though one is a stellar mouser.

Land. Worth more than money, and even worth more than the time it takes to earn the money, and time is a finite resource. For us the land need to be wooded mountains.

I'd say building in a way that's both sturdy and green, but I think that's a money-maker for us in the long term, not an expense.

[needmyfi]

decent beer
good coffee and half and half-always at home though-no Starbucks
eating out 2-3 times a month

If we needed to we could (and do on occasion) cut out the above

The following however are non mustachian but pretty much non negotiable.  Many people on this board would consider these luxuries-to me they are in the same category as food and shelter
heat-never below 72 degrees in the house  we don't have ac though and live in  the south so summer time  it gets in the 80's and even 90's inside
pool membership-swimming is my year round workout
1 dog, 1cat

Finally-the third category-things that wee know will delay re that we are willing to work longer  for:  we could cut out but have made a conscious decision to work longer to keep
occasional vacations
5 acres and rural living
reliable vehicles required  for rural living  we always had a $1000 beater in the city but have much better cars now

[ashley]

I sometimes spend upwards of $10/week driving back and forth from work to eat lunch at home. I could very easily pack my lunch and eat it at my desk (and I often do), but then I feel trapped all day. Plus, coming home in the middle of the day just feels like such a luxury. Worth it.

[limeandpepper]

This seems more like a "General Discussion" topic rather than a "Gauntlet" one.

Anyway, for me, I value:

- Living close to work and other places that make life convenient, e.g. markets, shops, banks, post offices
- Fancy ingredients for cooking; eating out occasionally
- Travel

I value these things because they make me happy, obviously they're not required for basic survival. I'm fine with the extra expenditure that comes with them.

[wtjbatman]

Probably a "powerful" computer. I don't need a cutting edge computer that retails for $3,000... but I don't just do homework and surf the web. I love to game. As in, computer games that make any computer more than a few years old start smoking out the back. It is something that I've always done, and something I see no reason to stop doing as I enjoy it far too much.

A mustachian (sort of?) way to deal with it though is that when I was a young teenager I learned to build my own computers. Aside from my kind-of-a-mistake gaming laptop, I have built all of my own computers and done all of my own tech support on them, no doubt saving me thousands of dollars over the years.

[arebelspy]

This seems more like a "General Discussion" topic rather than a "Gauntlet" one.

Good point.  Moved.

Also thanks to the OP for editing the title to make it clearer!  Interesting question.

[MoneyCat]

There are a couple Anti-Mustachian things that I value:

1.)  I value my season ticket for Major League Soccer.  Compared to other Major League Sports, it's really inexpensive and soccer fans aren't like other fans, because they sing, chant, and make elaborate "tifo" displays at games that makes the experience a lot more fun than many other sporting events.  I also love the camaraderie I have with other fans and the time spent talking about the sport and our team.  It's well worth the cost to me.

2.)  I also value my cats, because they share unconditional love with us.  Yes, the cost of food and veterinary care can sometimes be expensive, but it's a lot less expensive than having children and I never need to worry about child care/daycare costs, education costs, clothing, child hobbies, etc., so it's well worthwhile.

[rachael talcott]

Friends.  This usually takes the form of lunch/coffee out or having people over for dinner. 

[Jamesqf]

Living in a semi-rural area with lots of land for gardens, in the 'oasis' strip at the foot of the mountains.

Being within a fairly short drive of a variety of hike/bike/ski/etc places.

The dogs & horse.

[Russ]

everything you currently own / pay for

/thread

[arebelspy]

everything you currently own / pay for

/thread

Indeed. And which of those things are, perhaps, surprising for a Mustachian?

I myself pay for unlimited data on an iPhone on one of the big 4 (not mvno), and find that it's money well spent.

[Daleth]

Living in a place and neighborhood that meets my needs

Safety (e.g., the car with better safety ratings even if it is less fuel efficient and/or more expensive)

Quality (I would much rather spend $100 on something well made that will stand the test of time than spend $50 or $30 or whatever on some Chinese-import junk)

[RootofGood]

Comfort.  Time.  Convenience.  Pleasure.

Specifically, driving a car when I could easily walk.  I'm thinking short 0.5 to 1.0 mile trips, like running to the neighborhood pizza place last night to grab last minute dinner for the family.  It was the first time we have had any restaurant food in December, and also worth the $11 for convenience and as a treat since it was the kids last day of school. 

We also use A/C and heat to keep the house between 70 and 76 year round.  It costs around $1000 per year, but we get value from it (enjoyment of our $150,000 house and year round comfort). 

We don't buy the cheapest food possible, but instead spend up a bit to try different things or eat foods we like. 

[annaraven]

The first thing that comes to mind is: chicken feed. I *could* buy cheapo feed or cheapo eggs at the grocery. But I value having organic free range eggs from my backyard. They cost money to feed (I refurbed an old garden shed for their coop), but I get way better quality eggs. (If I compare to comparable quality eggs, I'm saving money - free range eggs at the farmers market run $8 a dozen!) Plus, the hens are funny and provide hours of entertainment.

One from last year - I asked for and got a new range for my birthday. We had a "high-quality" range that still "worked" but whenever I shoved a pot over to make room for another, the grates(?whatever you call the metal things above the burners that you set the pots on) would separate and I nearly dropped boiling water on myself more than once. So I got a good range. Not a Viking or anything, but a good-quality GE (I did wait and buy it on sale). I love it. It makes my life so much better. In addition to not coming apart on me when I move a pot, it has a better layout for the knobs so I don't have to guess or think about which burner I'm turning on (or turning the wrong one up by accident and burning something), and indicator lights on the burners so if I leave one on after cooking, I can see it as soon as I turn the kitchen lights off. Note - I do a LOT of cooking and canning and food prep. Also, I donated the old range and got a tax receipt. Totally worthwhile expense for us as it allows me to cook great food at home.

Pets. As everyone else explained. The joy they've given us is worth far more than any money I've spent.

Good quality shoes. I justify these as a health issue - without the right support, I end up with foot pain, knee pain, hip pain, etc., and I walk less. So I buy good walking/running shoes - I pay around $100-150 for a pair that actually fit (I have weird shaped feet). But I don't waste money on high heels etc and pretty much wear these from the time I get up to when I go to bed. For me, value worth paying for.

Travel. My husband's family is back in Italy (where he's from), including our new grandson. My daughter lives in another state. And we both love to experience new places. We often combine it with conferences where my husband or I are speaking so that we can get at least the airfare (and often the hotel) covered. We also look for less expensive options for lodging, for example, my daughter came with us to Italy last year and we rented an apartment. That allowed us to cook many of our meals, rather than eating out all the time. The less expensive lodging often are in the less "touristy" places and have more "local color" so it's a win all around. We would rather enjoy travel now, while we're still in good health and mobile enough to walk around all those old villages perched on the hillside.

[ShortInSeattle]

Things I value that I pay (extra?) for:

A nice condo in a walkable city. - Having a world of interesting stuff outside our doorsteps is awesome, not to mention access to public transit, parks, events, and the waterfront.

High quality food. - Humanely raised, organic, and local.

Coffee (at home and out) - I love our "coffee culture" in Seattle.  I love the different drinks, the atmosphere of different cafes, and doing work/reading/chatting at our local coffee shops.

Most of the other "stuff" is negotiable, or worth optimizing for faster FI. :)

[jdoolin]

Coffee - I'm a home roaster and will not compromise on a cup of good coffee.  On the other hand, I still pay only about $0.10-$0.15 per cup.

Good Beer - I do intend to get back into homebrewing once we're moved into our new place, but in the meantime I'm still getting craft beers, just not all that often.

Scotch - I don't go crazy with this one.  Maybe a $50 bottle per year.

Video games - again, not crazy here.  Gran Turismo, Street Fighter (and a few other racers and fighters) and a few handheld games.  That said, I still spend maybe a few hours per week playing them.  It's my way of enjoying cars for very cheap and playing a fun, competitive game with friends (Street Fighter).

I can't think of much else, but those are the items that I could certainly live without but still spend money on.  However, I've done what I can to minimize the cost.  All together they probably cost me about $400 per year or less.

[frugalamber]

This topic got me thinking as our yearly budget is much higher that many people in this forum. And I seriously felt scared to post the numbers. Anyway, things we value as family:
1. As an immigrant, we value visiting family or them travelling to visit us for 3-6 months. We do spent $5000 or so each year on this.
2. Even though I don't like spending on kids birthday party personally, I do it for social reasons
3. Keeping the house warm (75F) in Canadian winter. 

[goodlife]

One thing that eats a lot of my money is rent. I know I could live further from work and/or in a less nice neighborhood and save quite some money. But I absolutely hate commuting and could never imagine actually having to drive to work (I have never owned a car in my life). So anything that is more than 20min by public transport or walking from work is totally unimaginable for me. And I really value living in a nice neighborhood where I can go out for a run even in the evening or early morning when it is dark. I did look into living more cheaply when I first moved to my current city, but after visiting the types of apartments and the neighborhoods where they were located, I just decided that I would rather spend the money and live in a nicer place.

[basd]

- Living in the central part of the Netherlands rather than somewhere more remote (which is very relative over here, of course). Since I work at different clients throughout the year, this saves me a lot of travelling time, however, housing is more expensive here.

- Good running shoes. Running is my way to physical and mental health, and good shoes make all the difference. I typically go through 2-3 pairs per year, at around 100 euros per pair.

[eyePod]

Hm, I think as you have more time you can value some of the services less and less.  Granted, we have all decided that it's not worth it to work an extra hour to get a delivery service for groceries that costs about an extra hour of work.  I'd rather go shop myself for that hour instead of working!

[Seppie]

Last night we had an unexpected houseguest. She just needed a place to crash on her way through town, and the house where she normally stays has a dog with fleas, so she didn't want to bring her dog there. I let her know that my husband and I would be on a date, but that the kids could let her (and her dog) in and she could make herself at home. She was in bed when we got back from our date, and left before we woke up this morning, so I never actually saw her, but she messaged me that my kids were amazingly polite and welcoming and that she loved staying at our house, that it was like being at a beautiful bed and breakfast. 

While that story seems unrelated to this thread, it encompasses two of the things that I value enough to spend time/money on:
Hospitality and doing things for others
Creating a lovely home that is comfortable, aesthetically pleasing, and feels warm and welcoming to everyone who walks in the door

I can think of three more:
Activities that my family members and I enjoy, both together and separately
Traveling with my kids
High quality food

As I reflect on our budget/expenditures, these are areas where some of you would be appalled at how much we spend, but that spending truly does reflect what I value.

(And my home spending is actually pretty mustachian - it looks like we've spent a lot, but we have 4 kids and 2 dogs, so it would be dumb if we really had - I'm just a craigslist ninja with artistic inclinations.)

[ichangedmyname]

My cable/internet/phone. I really value my entertainment and I know I should read more or be more outdoorsy but I'm just not. Nothing relaxes me more than catching up on the TV shows I love or watching movies at home.

[Anatidae V]

Our health. As in, not dropping expenses on appointments/groceries/shelter/wellness until we can find a substitute we're comfortable with. Unfortunately, these are probably our biggest expenses! We are at $800/month on groceries, $200/month on psychologist/physio and recently dietician appointments, $210/month on health insurance, $1900/month on our rental place and just made the unwise decision to purchase a brand new car, as I have been commuting in our old, slowly dying one and it has made my drive to work, my work time and the length of my "decompression" time after work even more unpleasant than it could be.

That's not the same as saying "these categories are off limits"; we're just more cautious in checking the non-financial aspects of our decisions on us.

[grantmeaname]

Good beer, wine, bourbon, coffee, food, and kitchen equipment. I keep the budget reasonably trimmed in those categories but if a $25 bottle of whiskey is going to be a pleasant end to a night or two a week for months it's $25 well spent.

I have a nice laptop too. For how much time people spend on computers, and how little money computers cost in the grand scheme of things, it seems silly not to own a premium laptop that does everything exceptionally well. I got it on craigslist for $400, but I would totally pay MSRP for a new one if necessary.

[lentilman]

Craft beer.

Good schools for my son - either buying in an area with blue-ribbon schools or paying for a private school. 

Cable TV (for DW).

Super cushy-soft toilet paper.

[JanMN]

High quality winter boots and choppers/mittens.

[StarswirlTheMustached]

The most obvious valued/paid for luxury items for me me are premium, loose-leaf teas, and books.

Tea isn't that bad : even if I go all out on the fanciest teas I can get my hands on, it's still cheaper than Starbucks.

Books: yes, I buy books. New. Full price. Why? Two reasons : one is that sometimes the library doesn't have one I know I want to read. Two is that I want to support the author so they can get another book deal and/or pay rent. I've even bought books that sit in my local library, to show my support.

Plus, yes, we've a dog. Obviously we value that enough to pay for her continued existence.

[melalvai]

Super cushy-soft toilet paper.

Good choice!

[burly]

These are things where I value my time over actually performing the task at hand...

Dry Cleaning.... $1.50 per shirt that I can wear 3 times is sure worth it versus laundering and ironing which never holds up as well or looks as sharp! Maybe someday I'll have a job where I don't have to wear a suit!

Spring Dog Grooming... - No matter how long I take to bath and brush my dog, the groomers do it best to get rid of that winter coat... So we splurge on the annual professional dog grooming towards the end of spring.

[impaire]

The big ones:
- living near an ocean, no matter the cost in job opportunity and COL
- travel (both to visit family abroad and to visit new places)
- food and drinks (humane meat and meat products, European-type chocolate, butter and cheese, high-end alcohol--though at least I don't drink much of it--,occasional artisan loaf of bread not baked by me; the rest of our supplies is close to optimized).
- restaurants, though since finding MMM I've cut that budget dramatically (I've kept the occasional splurge and nixed all the convenience/comfort eating out)
- a career change that's financially laughable

Other unoptimized spending: pets, ready to pay for a walkable living location, some appearance spending (not much, but more than the absolute minimum).

[rubybeth]

I really value good work/life balance/boundaries between work and my real life. I have recently been demoted at work with my salary being frozen for the foreseeable future (probably at least 3 years). However, I have a flexible work schedule, a relatively great boss, and have negotiated excellent boundaries between work and my real life (I don't check work e-mail when I'm not there, etc.), and we live really close to my job (.7 miles) so I can walk or bike. So while I've seen job postings for more money and more opportunity to advance, I'd rather stick with this, at least while DH is in grad school for the next few years.

[NumberJohnny5]

Travel is the biggie for us. Love cruises, though I think we're going to gravitate away from that (we'll see!).

Next up for me would be gadgets. Just bought an IP phone, setup asterisk on an old netbook, took over a week to get everything working just the way I want (well, almost, there's still some tinkering I *could* do, but it's Christmas Eve). I think I'm doing pretty good by holding on to my laptop for over two years now, keeping at least one generation behind the newest smart phone (though I may, um, have more than one). Cheap router that needed a jtag to flash dd-wrt, and now serves as a print server in addition to its routing functions. Once upon a time I bought scratch-and-dent TiVos, fixed them up, upgraded the drives, and made a decent bit on ebay. Love technology.

Of course our kids. Number one really. We're spending more time in Australia because of the awesome school our son's in (and our daughter starts next year), wife's income was a bit higher in the US with a lower COL. Son's really into Halloween (like, year round), but it's not that big a deal in Australia. So we took him to Hong Kong Disneyland, he had a blast.

[KMMK]

Food is my number one big but adjustable expense. I happily spend a lot on food.

House heat - I hate being cold and unfortunately I'm not comfortable at normal room temperatures unless I'm exercising or something. Many people here would think how high we keep our house is crazy, but since we can afford it, and I have to wear long underwear to work at least 6 months of the year (office job), I refuse to also freeze at home, and am happy to pay for extra heating.

Car stuff. We don't do our own oil changes. We pay. Ideally, I wouldn't own a car at all, but some expenses are marriage related.

[RootofGood]

House heat - I hate being cold and unfortunately I'm not comfortable at normal room temperatures unless I'm exercising or something. Many people here would think how high we keep our house is crazy, but since we can afford it, and I have to wear long underwear to work at least 6 months of the year (office job), I refuse to also freeze at home, and am happy to pay for extra heating.

I understand.  I put the higher than I want heating bills in the "cost of marriage" category.  Mrs. RootofGood, growing up in the tropical jungle heat of Southeast Asia, wants the thermostat on 76 in the winter.  We compromise at 70, but I'm sure it feels more like 72 to her given all the fussing and whining about freezing that she does (without wearing a sweater or other 2nd layers of clothing). 

[Insanity]

--  Cleaning service.  It really does help the marriage.

--  Cable - I really want to change this, but I don't have a choice in the matter.  We tried HULU Plus and my wife didn't really like it as you still had to watch it with commercials and not all of the shows were available on all devices. She also likes the flip around and see what is on and not necessarily schedule something. And of course, the sports aspect to it.

-- Dog - we used to send him to doggie day camp when we were both working and not home as much.  He still goes occasionally, but only once every three or four weeks.

-- House - I don't have the skills yet, and the wife doesn't have the patience.  So, we compromise and hire someone to do things that need to get done quickly.

Edit:
Forgot -  Day care for our toddler.   It is worth it.  3 days of having quiet so I can work form home and my wife only has to deal with the baby.  Granted most days the M.I.L comes over to help out anyway. But still.

[CommonCents]

House heat - I hate being cold and unfortunately I'm not comfortable at normal room temperatures unless I'm exercising or something. Many people here would think how high we keep our house is crazy, but since we can afford it, and I have to wear long underwear to work at least 6 months of the year (office job), I refuse to also freeze at home, and am happy to pay for extra heating.

I understand.  I put the higher than I want heating bills in the "cost of marriage" category.  Mrs. RootofGood, growing up in the tropical jungle heat of Southeast Asia, wants the thermostat on 76 in the winter.  We compromise at 70, but I'm sure it feels more like 72 to her given all the fussing and whining about freezing that she does (without wearing a sweater or other 2nd layers of clothing).

DH has more body fat than I do.  Substantially.  I've offered before to put on more body fat, or he can turn up the heat.  He promptly turned up the heat.  :)

But I do wear sweaters, I just have really bad circulation, runs in my family, so having cold hands and feet always is rather frustrating.

[Jamesqf]

But I do wear sweaters, I just have really bad circulation, runs in my family, so having cold hands and feet always is rather frustrating.

Fuzzy hats.  I like the Turtle Fur brand myself.

[Peony]

A little bit of cashmere in my life makes me really happy ... I try to have my mother gift me a good-quality sweater every couple of years. Scottish if possible.

[Mlkmn]

Breathe Right nose strips.  I have just enough nasal inflammation that I can't nose breathe very well when I lie down.  These work wonders and cost around $4 per month if you buy them from Sams club or Costco and use them two times each. For the ability to breathe and not have to use a steroid they are totally worth it.  Get the advanced ones in bulk. The store brands are not near as good. 

[Eric]

Beer and toilet paper.  Everything else can be lower quality, but not these two.  And no, I could not live without either. (well, I could, but it would be no kind of life)

[swick]

Fuzzy socks! Not that i have to ever buy them, I get a big stack from my mom and sister every year, but I would buy them.

Also, the occasional book and board game because it is hard to find what I want new, our library doesn't have a good selection and I am happy to support the creative minds behind them.

If I find a free computer program that I get lots of use from, I will either donate to the creator or buy the upgraded version to support them. I figure it is good karma.

My education, formal or not - I take free opportunities to learn new things, but I also am more then happy to pay to learn about things i am interested in that will help me lead a fuller life, either career wise or personally.

[frpeebles]

My dirt bike. There isn't anything I'd rather be doing than riding through the desert with a friend. I'd even like to eventually run some desert races.

Oh, and I don't have a kid but I can't live without this.


[Mod Edit: Affiliate link removed.]

[OP Edit: What's an Affiliate link?]

[iris lily]

As an old fart I value things that are solidly made and free of "gotchas." I tire of new appliances now designed to last 7 years. The old ones last 17 years. The ones before that lasted 30 years. I hate all of the plastic parts and electronic features. Don't want that stuff.

Last night one of my old fart friends recounted a story of chasing down a new washing machine that didn't have the stupid automatic crap that they all have (some mandated by our Nanny federal government to keep us safe.) She ended up buying a Speed Queen that is all metal. It makes me want to go out and buy a Speed Queen washing machine and keep it stored in my basement for the inevitable day when I will need a new washing machine and will hate anything in the stores.