Author Topic: The things people say...that irk you  (Read 110768 times)

Cougar

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #450 on: February 14, 2016, 12:57:23 PM »

"offen", there's actually a T in "often".

and "way". way is a word used for direction, the lost word of much is generally what they should be using.

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #451 on: February 14, 2016, 04:01:40 PM »

"offen", there's actually a T in "often".

and "way". way is a word used for direction, the lost word of much is generally what they should be using.

Do you mean "offen" in written text or spoken? Because you know the t is silent right?

NoraLenderbee

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #452 on: February 15, 2016, 11:07:41 AM »
There's a T in "listen," too, but I've never heard anyone say "lis-ten." The T is silent, as in "often."

cerat0n1a

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #453 on: February 15, 2016, 02:50:57 PM »
There's a T in "listen," too, but I've never heard anyone say "lis-ten." The T is silent, as in "often."

Interesting, I've never noticed anyone miss the T in "often", other than upper-class people in old newsreels, who say "awfen." I must listen more carefully. Presumably you pronounce soften and softener similarly, without a T.  A lot of consonant clusters lost their middle consonant in 17th century English - raspberry is an example.

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #454 on: February 15, 2016, 05:00:20 PM »
There's a T in "listen," too, but I've never heard anyone say "lis-ten." The T is silent, as in "often."

Interesting, I've never noticed anyone miss the T in "often", other than upper-class people in old newsreels, who say "awfen." I must listen more carefully. Presumably you pronounce soften and softener similarly, without a T.  A lot of consonant clusters lost their middle consonant in 17th century English - raspberry is an example.

Maybe that's a UK thing. I can't recall the last time I've heard that in the US.

Furthermore if I Google for pronunciation of often, I get auditory clips with a silent t.

Gin1984

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #455 on: February 15, 2016, 05:11:56 PM »
There's a T in "listen," too, but I've never heard anyone say "lis-ten." The T is silent, as in "often."

Interesting, I've never noticed anyone miss the T in "often", other than upper-class people in old newsreels, who say "awfen." I must listen more carefully. Presumably you pronounce soften and softener similarly, without a T.  A lot of consonant clusters lost their middle consonant in 17th century English - raspberry is an example.

Maybe that's a UK thing. I can't recall the last time I've heard that in the US.

Furthermore if I Google for pronunciation of often, I get auditory clips with a silent t.
I'm from California and live in NY and I rarely hear the silent t, I mostly hear of-ten.

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #456 on: February 15, 2016, 07:52:31 PM »
There's a T in "listen," too, but I've never heard anyone say "lis-ten." The T is silent, as in "often."

Interesting, I've never noticed anyone miss the T in "often", other than upper-class people in old newsreels, who say "awfen." I must listen more carefully. Presumably you pronounce soften and softener similarly, without a T.  A lot of consonant clusters lost their middle consonant in 17th century English - raspberry is an example.

Maybe that's a UK thing. I can't recall the last time I've heard that in the US.

Furthermore if I Google for pronunciation of often, I get auditory clips with a silent t.
I'm from California and live in NY and I rarely hear the silent t, I mostly hear of-ten.

I'm a California native & currently in California.  I say & generally hear others say "offen" "sofen" and "lissen". I would not bat an eye if somebody pronounced the T in often, but soften/softener might make me do a double-take.  However, pronouncing the T in listen would just be weird.
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AvisJinx

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #457 on: February 16, 2016, 10:13:53 AM »
A few comments in this thread remind me of an old dialect quiz I came across on the NY Times website: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=1&

The question "Could you do me a favor?" before the actual favor is revealed irks me to no end. Tell me what you want first, then I'll tell you if I can or I'm willing to do said favor.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 10:17:03 AM by AvisJinx »

dogboyslim

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #458 on: February 16, 2016, 10:28:22 AM »
"that's a mute point"

My blood boils with rage!

ruthiegirl

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #459 on: February 16, 2016, 10:42:08 AM »
May be a local thing, but I hear 'needs cleaned' a lot. 

'This grill needs cleaned.'  'The bathroom needs cleaned.' 

My teeth clench every time. 

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #460 on: February 16, 2016, 03:54:27 PM »
Silent t - I grew up English in Quebec, soften and softener are soffen and soffener, often is offen. Often with a t sounds odd, soften with a t sounds odder. 
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LeRainDrop

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #461 on: February 16, 2016, 08:25:19 PM »
A few comments in this thread remind me of an old dialect quiz I came across on the NY Times website: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/12/20/sunday-review/dialect-quiz-map.html?_r=1&

Aw, that quiz nailed where I grew up!

Quote
The question "Could you do me a favor?" before the actual favor is revealed irks me to no end. Tell me what you want first, then I'll tell you if I can or I'm willing to do said favor.

"Can I ask you a question?"

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #462 on: February 16, 2016, 08:52:28 PM »
"Anythink"

"Nothink"

"Somethink."

There is no k, there is a g.

Drives me crazy. May just be an Australian thing, but it really irritates me.

JLee

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #463 on: February 17, 2016, 08:05:17 AM »
"Anythink"

"Nothink"

"Somethink."

There is no k, there is a g.

Drives me crazy. May just be an Australian thing, but it really irritates me.

I don't think I've ever heard that before. I'm curious if I'll notice if/when I visit Australia.

pbkmaine

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #464 on: February 17, 2016, 08:21:44 AM »
I have a neighbor with horrible grammar and diction. But she's such a dear person and so smart in so many other ways that It does not bother me. Knowing her has made me more tolerant of the verbal foibles of others.

MandalayVA

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #465 on: February 17, 2016, 08:27:03 AM »
I have a neighbor with horrible grammar and diction. But she's such a dear person and so smart in so many other ways that It does not bother me. Knowing her has made me more tolerant of the verbal foibles of others.

The ones that really drive me crazy are the ones with horrible grammar and diction ... and college degrees.
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pbkmaine

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The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #466 on: February 17, 2016, 08:37:04 AM »
English is a tough language. It is amazing to me that it has become a lingua franca. Instead of adapting foreign words to its own structure, it brings them in whole, giving us many ways to spell a sound. If you are not a visual learner, that causes problems. There are constant mixups with "they're", "their", and "there", for example. German has its own problems - "Geschwindigkeitsbegrenzung" for "speed limit", anyone? - but if you understand a few basic rules, at least you can SPELL it.

Slowdown

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #467 on: February 17, 2016, 09:03:57 AM »
Silent t - I grew up English in Quebec, soften and softener are soffen and soffener, often is offen. Often with a t sounds odd, soften with a t sounds odder.
I learned English in school in Germany. We had to say "offen" because that was the correct British pronunciation, according to our teachers. So I pronounced it "often" because American seemed to be so much cooler than British English.

Slowdown

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #468 on: February 17, 2016, 09:27:10 AM »
German has its own problems - "Geschwindigkeitsbegrenzung" for "speed limit", anyone?

Geschwindigkeitsbegrenzung? Zulässige Höchstgeschwindigkeit? Most people just call it "Tempolimit".

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #469 on: February 17, 2016, 12:29:16 PM »
Adding an "r" on a word that ends in a vowel.  "Idea" is "idear", "Oreo" is "Oreor," etc.  I think this is a Virginia thing because I've never heard it anywhere else.  Alas, Mr. Mandalay is guilty of this.  "I have an idear--I mean, an IDEA," said while giving me an apologetic glance.  :D
^^
This.  Aargh.

The Brits do this as well.  How is it that so many people do this?  It's baffling.

I think "The Brits" do it to separate words when one ends in a vowel and the next begins with a vowel.  I'm not saying it's correct, but it is what it is ;)

TheBuddha

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #470 on: February 17, 2016, 11:31:53 PM »
Adding an "r" on a word that ends in a vowel.  "Idea" is "idear", "Oreo" is "Oreor," etc.  I think this is a Virginia thing because I've never heard it anywhere else.  Alas, Mr. Mandalay is guilty of this.  "I have an idear--I mean, an IDEA," said while giving me an apologetic glance.  :D
^^
This.  Aargh.

The Brits do this as well.  How is it that so many people do this?  It's baffling.

I think "The Brits" do it to separate words when one ends in a vowel and the next begins with a vowel.  I'm not saying it's correct, but it is what it is ;)

Not only do they add an "r" where there isn't one, they also neglect to pronounce it when it's actually there ("Mother" -> "Mutha"). Madness!
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Dollar Slice

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #471 on: February 17, 2016, 11:45:50 PM »
Not only do they add an "r" where there isn't one, they also neglect to pronounce it when it's actually there ("Mother" -> "Mutha"). Madness!

I've even seen a British person use the silent R when describing how to pronounce something that had no R in it. I can't remember what the name was, but it was something along the lines of saying that "Xena" is pronounced "Zee-nur." That struck me as particularly strange.
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cerat0n1a

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #472 on: February 18, 2016, 06:20:05 AM »
I think "The Brits" do it to separate words when one ends in a vowel and the next begins with a vowel.  I'm not saying it's correct, but it is what it is ;)

You'll irk a lot of people by equating English and British ;-) The Scots (and some English people, eg rural/older speakers from North Lancashire, or Devon/Cornwall) definitely do pronounce Rs in the "correct" places.

How many of you pronounce the middle-r in governor or surprise? Seems to me that at least some North American speakers will at least drop that one. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #473 on: February 18, 2016, 06:27:26 AM »
Dialects for the win.  I do say r in governor and surprise.  I checked with DD and she says the t in often.

The Ottawa Valley has its own bits and pieces.   I know someone who is reasonably well educated and definitely bright, and she says "youse" for you - and no-one blinks.  I gather it is common around here, if your family has been here a few generations.
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Hank Sinatra

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #474 on: February 18, 2016, 07:15:20 AM »
I need to chime in on this one .  I come from Pennsylvania. Philly to be exact. There we say (or at least when I was growing up and learned to talk) "often" as awffen and omit the "t". Some old people however would pronounce the "t". Dialect shift? However not to many miles away in Pennsylvania there are people who say the "t" all the time.

I grew up also saying Wednesday  as "Wenz-day". But in that same area of Pa. that says Off-ten" they clearly say "Wed'ns-day" or sometimes "wed'nsdee". The way you'd say "didn't."  When I first heard it I thought the guy was just doing a jokey little riff on English spelling they way we all do. Through, threw. "Bow" can be rhyme with "cow" or rhyme with "Joe" etc

RetiredAt63

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #475 on: February 18, 2016, 07:47:42 AM »
Well, "bow" changes depending on meaning.   Bow as Joe is something you tie with ribbon, or pull the string of to shoot an arrow, bow as cow means bending at the waist.

Wednesday - how lazy am I feeling?  Lazy ="Wenz-day". Paying attention to enunciation =  "Wed'ns-day

I need to chime in on this one .  I come from Pennsylvania. Philly to be exact. There we say (or at least when I was growing up and learned to talk) "often" as awffen and omit the "t". Some old people however would pronounce the "t". Dialect shift? However not to many miles away in Pennsylvania there are people who say the "t" all the time.

I grew up also saying Wednesday  as "Wenz-day". But in that same area of Pa. that says Off-ten" they clearly say "Wed'ns-day" or sometimes "wed'nsdee". The way you'd say "didn't."  When I first heard it I thought the guy was just doing a jokey little riff on English spelling they way we all do. Through, threw. "Bow" can be rhyme with "cow" or rhyme with "Joe" etc
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mak1277

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #476 on: February 18, 2016, 08:17:47 AM »
Haven't read the entire thread, so apologize for repeats:

I know this one's been mentioned, but it's so bad I have to +1 it: "could care less"....grrr...

The other one that bothers me a lot is the use of "ask" as a noun (e.g., My ask of you is...). 

cerat0n1a

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #477 on: February 18, 2016, 10:00:38 AM »
The other one that bothers me a lot is the use of "ask" as a noun (e.g., My ask of you is...).

It appears as a noun in 10th century Anglo-Saxon law books, in pretty much exactly the modern sense (i.e. a request, or thing being asked). (And before anyone starts on the "aks" vs "ask" thing, the verb 'ax' meaning "ask" is there in Beowulf, the oldest surviving poem in "English"...)

I think you can pin this on the Aussies though. "A big ask" seemed to be a common Australian phrase used in sports commentaries & interviews way back in the 1980s.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 10:04:48 AM by ceratonia »

Hank Sinatra

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #478 on: February 18, 2016, 10:11:36 AM »
Quote
Well, "bow" changes depending on meaning.   Bow as Joe is something you tie with ribbon, or pull the string of to shoot an arrow, bow as cow means bending at the waist.


Yes we know. But nobody was talking about that.

Quote
Wednesday - how lazy am I feeling?  Lazy ="Wenz-day". Paying attention to enunciation =  "Wed'ns-day

Incorrect due to a lack of knowledge of regional speech patterns. But we'll let you slide. But now you know.

GreenSheep

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #479 on: February 18, 2016, 11:49:19 AM »
Misuse of the word "mortified." It does not mean "scared" or "terrified," yet I hear people say things like, "I'm mortified of spiders" all the time. Classic case of attempting to look smart by using a word you're not smart enough to use and therefore broadcasting your stupidity. Kind of like attempting to look rich by driving a car you can't afford.

mak1277

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #480 on: February 18, 2016, 11:56:25 AM »
The other one that bothers me a lot is the use of "ask" as a noun (e.g., My ask of you is...).

It appears as a noun in 10th century Anglo-Saxon law books, in pretty much exactly the modern sense (i.e. a request, or thing being asked). (And before anyone starts on the "aks" vs "ask" thing, the verb 'ax' meaning "ask" is there in Beowulf, the oldest surviving poem in "English"...)

I think you can pin this on the Aussies though. "A big ask" seemed to be a common Australian phrase used in sports commentaries & interviews way back in the 1980s.

Whether it's correct grammar or not is not relevant...the use of "ask" as a noun just bugs me. :-)

cerat0n1a

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #481 on: February 18, 2016, 01:15:25 PM »
Whether it's correct grammar or not is not relevant...the use of "ask" as a noun just bugs me. :-)

I had a meeting at work today where the phrase "my ask of you" was used at least 10 times...

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #482 on: February 18, 2016, 01:35:06 PM »
I think "The Brits" do it to separate words when one ends in a vowel and the next begins with a vowel.  I'm not saying it's correct, but it is what it is ;)

You'll irk a lot of people by equating English and British ;-) The Scots (and some English people, eg rural/older speakers from North Lancashire, or Devon/Cornwall) definitely do pronounce Rs in the "correct" places.

How many of you pronounce the middle-r in governor or surprise? Seems to me that at least some North American speakers will at least drop that one.

That's why I put quotation marks around "The Brits".  I was using the term from the post I quoted and am thus attempting to distance myself from the offending party.  Cheers.

synonym

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #483 on: February 18, 2016, 02:43:53 PM »
This thread always makes me think of the concept of a Shibboleth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth, the use of pronunciations and dialects as markers of belonging or otherness, with historically some pretty unpleasant effects

RetiredAt63

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #484 on: February 18, 2016, 06:38:49 PM »
Sorry, I don't understand why you say we weren't talking about bow's two pronunciations?  You brought it up.  Are there people who use the pronunciations and meanings in a different way?
And Wednesday - I hear both in the same region.  My region is not your region.  Only linguists have a chance of knowing and recognizing regional dialects.  Where is Henry Higgins when we need him?

Of course, if I hear someone say "Close the light, I'm going to the dep by BMW and will be back toute suite, ciao" I know exactly where I am.


Quote
Well, "bow" changes depending on meaning.   Bow as Joe is something you tie with ribbon, or pull the string of to shoot an arrow, bow as cow means bending at the waist.


Yes we know. But nobody was talking about that.

Quote
Wednesday - how lazy am I feeling?  Lazy ="Wenz-day". Paying attention to enunciation =  "Wed'ns-day

Incorrect due to a lack of knowledge of regional speech patterns. But we'll let you slide. But now you know.
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LeRainDrop

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #485 on: February 18, 2016, 08:53:08 PM »
"between you and I" => *cringe*

cerat0n1a

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #486 on: February 19, 2016, 01:25:56 AM »
"between you and I" => *cringe*

It's probably grammatically wrong, sure, but OTOH, Shakespeare uses it in the The Merchant of Venice.

shelivesthedream

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #487 on: February 19, 2016, 01:53:32 AM »
"between you and I" => *cringe*

It's probably grammatically wrong, sure, but OTOH, Shakespeare uses it in the The Merchant of Venice.

Is it a dramatic device to make the character who says it sound like a pompous fool?

cerat0n1a

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #488 on: February 19, 2016, 04:14:04 AM »
Is it a dramatic device to make the character who says it sound like a pompous fool?

People have been debating it for hundreds of years - I see that it even has a Wikipedia entry. According to wikipedia, Charles Dickens, Graham Greene, Mark Twain, Samuel Pepys all would've been in LeRainDrop's bad books too :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Between_you_and_I


cheddarpie

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #489 on: February 19, 2016, 02:41:25 PM »
The one that always gets me this time of year is the difference between "tax return" and "tax refund." The "return" is the document you file with the IRS; the "refund" is the money you get back. So many people talking about getting a big "tax return" drives me kookoo!


johnny847

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #490 on: February 19, 2016, 03:17:33 PM »
The one that always gets me this time of year is the difference between "tax return" and "tax refund." The "return" is the document you file with the IRS; the "refund" is the money you get back. So many people talking about getting a big "tax return" drives me kookoo!

Hey man, maybe they work for the IRS and receive long ass tax returns ;)

But yes lots of people aren't aware of the distinction.


Here's another distinction most people aren't aware of. Direct vs non-stop flights. They are NOT the same thing. A non-stop flight is exactly what you think it means - it gets from A to B without any stops. A direct flight means it goes from A to B, but makes a stop (or several) at C, without a plane change (so you don't get off the plane).
Southwest does this, but I don't think this is a common occurrence for most other domestic airlines.

LeRainDrop

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #491 on: February 19, 2016, 05:26:54 PM »
Is it a dramatic device to make the character who says it sound like a pompous fool?

People have been debating it for hundreds of years - I see that it even has a Wikipedia entry. According to wikipedia, Charles Dickens, Graham Greene, Mark Twain, Samuel Pepys all would've been in LeRainDrop's bad books too :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Between_you_and_I

Yup, if folks started talking like Shakespeare or Chaucer or whatever in regular conversion, that would irk me, too!  :-)

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #492 on: February 22, 2016, 01:53:51 PM »
I really hate the term disposable income. 

Why can't people either call it savings or discretionary spending? 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #493 on: February 22, 2016, 01:55:19 PM »
"Anythink"
"Nothink"
"Somethink."

There is no k, there is a g.

Drives me crazy. May just be an Australian thing, but it really irritates me.

"Hungred" (Hundred)
"Sangwich" (Sandwich)
When did it become so difficult to pronounce a "d"? 
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand

GreenSheep

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #494 on: February 22, 2016, 02:30:49 PM »
"Anythink"
"Nothink"
"Somethink."

There is no k, there is a g.

Drives me crazy. May just be an Australian thing, but it really irritates me.

"Hungred" (Hundred)
"Sangwich" (Sandwich)
When did it become so difficult to pronounce a "d"?

Along the same lines (laziness)...
Sandwich --> sando
Conversation --> convo
Vacation --> vacay

These drive me insane. It's not a big deal to pronounce (or write) the entire word.

cerat0n1a

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #495 on: February 22, 2016, 04:13:16 PM »
Along the same lines (laziness)...
Sandwich --> sando
Conversation --> convo
Vacation --> vacay

These drive me insane. It's not a big deal to pronounce (or write) the entire word.

Best steer clear of Australia then... They have "arvo" (afternoon), "garbo" (the man who collects bins from outside your house), "footy" (football) and many more in daily use.

Widget

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #496 on: February 22, 2016, 10:24:58 PM »
"At least"
(not in a numerical context).

I'm trying to get myself to stop saying this.  When someone is going through a hard time, or even just complaining about something that truly isn't that bad, I have a tendency to say "Well, at least ______" and fill in the blank with a scenario that could be worse.  It's just a lack of empathy, so I'm trying to find a better way to relate and show that I understand their position.  As a naturally non-empathetic person, it's a challenge, but one way I'm working to improve myself.

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #497 on: February 23, 2016, 08:51:56 AM »
I really hate the term disposable income. 

Why can't people either call it savings or discretionary spending?

Because if people called it something other than disposable income, they might get confused and think that they can do something with it other than just throw it away.  [end sarcasm]

NoraLenderbee

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #498 on: February 23, 2016, 01:27:38 PM »
People who drop entire syllables because they can’t handle R’s in the middle of words.

Tare-ism (terrorism)
Deteriyate (deteriorate)
Woyers (Warriors—pronounced to rhyme with “lawyers”) There’s a California basketball team called the Warriors and I cannot stand to listen to sportscasters talk about them.

BlueHouse

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Re: The things people say...that irk you
« Reply #499 on: February 23, 2016, 06:51:21 PM »
People who drop entire syllables because they can’t handle R’s in the middle of words.

Tare-ism (terrorism)
Deteriyate (deteriorate)
Woyers (Warriors—pronounced to rhyme with “lawyers”) There’s a California basketball team called the Warriors and I cannot stand to listen to sportscasters talk about them.
Is this a regional thing?  I've heard this before, but can't remember where. 

I hear a lot of the Maryland accent around here, and it's just turble (Terrible)
Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand