Author Topic: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'  (Read 59444 times)

OldPro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 167
The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« on: April 15, 2015, 11:12:48 AM »
Hi, as a new poster I have just read a post on retiring to a tropical paradise with 67 comments and thought I would use that as a jumping-off point to start a new thread and introduce myself.

I retired at age 43, in 1989.  I think that makes my screen name somewhat appropriate.  During my time since then, I have lived in several countries including an 'island paradise'.  I post on various forums including some on retirement and some on travel.  The topic of living in another country in retirement often comes up and always seems to generate interest.  But I've noticed that most comments, including those on the thread here that I just mentioned above, are by people who have not tried it.  So I thought a thread on the subject by someone who has experienced it might be of interest.

After I retired, I spent considerable time travelling and eventually ended up on the Greek island of Rhodes.  I arrived thinking I would spend a week or so seeing the island before moving on.  I stayed for 7 years.  That is part of the freedom of FIRE.  The freedom to do what you want, when you want and where you want and for as long as you want.

During my time there I would sometimes meet tourists who when they discovered I had been there for some years, would ask, 'what made you decide to stay?'  I would honestly answer that I had never decided to stay, I just hadn't decided to leave yet.

While living there, I observed various things that I think are applicable regardless of where your 'tropical paradise' might be.  These are not based on any statistical data that I can provide a link to, they are just my own personal observations.  But I think they are pretty accurate and universal.

Of every 10 people I saw arrive on the island with their rose coloured glasses, 5 were gone within 2 years and only 1-2 were still there after 5 years.  The biggest single factor determining whether someone would 'stick' or not was the ability or inability to adapt to 'different'.  Not good or bad, right or wrong, just different.  There is no way to know beforehand whether any given individual will 'stick' or not.  It's simply a case of try it and see what happens.

Because of that, the first advice I would give anyone thinking of trying it is that you should never, never, never, invest money in a house or a business until you have been there at least 1 and preferrably 2 years.  You have to get past the 'honeymoon period' before you can expect to really get a feel for whether you will stick or not.  I never saw anyone leave the island with more money than they arrived with and I saw quite a few who left with considerably less than they arrived with.

Next would be never to listen to someone who has been somewhere for a year or two.  They're still in the honeymoon phase.  It's like asking someone what they think of the new car they bought.  No one wants to admit they bought a lemon IF they've figured that out yet and they haven't owned it long enought to know if it is or not.   If you want to find out what it is really like to live somewhere, find people who have been there 5 years or more and listen to them.  They're past having to justify their own decision and are comfortable with what they are doing.

People contemplating a move to another country in retirement usually are attracted to a place for the better weather and second is often the lower cost of living.   However, places with a lower cost of living have a lower cost for a reason.  People usually are smart enough to wonder about healthcare but that is sometimes only the tip of the iceberg that a lower cost of living also means.  Most of the differences are negative.

For example, infrastructure is often not what you are used to.  Power 'brown outs'; corruption in government at all levels; poor drinking water; nightmare bureaucracy; high crime, squatters move into your home if you leave to visit family or travel, etc. etc.  These are all part of the 'different' that you have to be able to adapt to.  I'd say the higher the standard of living and related cost of living, the better your chances of sticking.

Now don't get me wrong, I am all in favour of trying living in a new place.  I loved living on Rhodes and might still be there if I hadn't met the woman who is now my wife and moved to her home country to be with her.  Everywhere has its good and bad points.  The problem is when people concentrate on the good like better weather and are not realistic about the bad that they will also have to deal with.  That's why I think only 1-2 in 10 'stick'.  Their expectations are simply not realistic.

Living in a 'tropical paradise' may sound wonderful and it may well be for any given individual but it is not for everyone.  If you go into it with that in mind, don't burn all your bridges, don't 'bet the bank' on it and don't beat yourself up if it doesn't work out for you, then it can be a rewarding part of FIRE.

For what it is worth, my personal experience of living in various countries is that they all have their pros and cons and I've pretty much concluded that it really doesn't matter where I live.  As it happens, for various reasons which are mostly practical, I have ended up back in Canada where I started from 26 years ago.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 11:20:01 AM by OldPro »

frugledoc

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 743
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2015, 11:56:56 AM »
Hi Oldpro,

Thanks for posting this.

I'm 37, married with a 1 year old daughter in the UK.  My dream would be to retire to NZ where we lived for a year before married.  Your post resonates with me because I know deep down you are right that having lived there for 1 year and loving it I only have memories of the honeymoon phase.

Reminding myself of that makes the UK seem more bearable!



Retired To Win

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1493
  • Age: 76
  • Location: Virginia
  • making the most of my time and my money
    • Retired To Win
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2015, 12:00:02 PM »
Great stuff, OldPro.  I'm going to make a checklist off your original post.

dcheesi

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1309
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2015, 12:48:49 PM »
Everything you said sounds totally in line with what my brother experienced.

Unfortunately he made the exact mistake you warn against, and wound up stuck with a house that he literally could not sell for a while due to local politics/red-tape. Luckily he sort of fell into a good-paying job that he could pursue back on the mainland, so he was able to eat the sunk costs until he found a local who could take the place off his hands.

2ndTimer

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4607
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2015, 01:08:15 PM »
Absolutely, saw this a lot when we lived in Mexico.  The ability to float on a tide of "different" is exactly what is needed when retiring to another country.

Davids

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
  • Location: Somewhere in the USA.
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2015, 01:49:55 PM »
Great post. I am not sure what DW and I will do when the time comes but Belize seems like a great place to retire and sonething I will do more research on and of course visit when the time comes

Schaefer Light

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1328
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2015, 02:33:09 PM »
Excellent post.  I was one of the posters who replied to the earlier thread.  This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that a lot of the Caribbean islands just aren't American enough for me.  I've noticed that in the short time I've spent visiting them on vacations.  I'm not good at adjusting to "different".  My honeymoon phase in a new location seems to last about 1-2 hours ;).  Then I start bitching about how they don't do things as well as we do them in America.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 02:38:23 PM by Schaefer Light »

OldPro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 167
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2015, 02:45:37 PM »
Obviously there are a  lot of other factors to consider when looking at something like this.

Do you maintain a home back 'home' and have this as a second home for example.  That changes things vs. an actual move intended to be more or less be permanent.

What about exchange rates?  If your income is in one currency and you are living somewhere with another currency, that can have a big affect.  People don't always realize just how much currency can fluctuate.  For example the UK Pound to the EURO caught a lot of Brit expats living in Spain and elsewhere.  Suddenly, they could no longer afford to live in their 'villa with a pool' anymore.

My wife has income from the UK and in the 9 years we have now been in Canada, the exchange has gone from $2.00 down to as low as $1.50 and is now back up around $1.80.  Up to a 25% fluctuation!

When people plan based on current exchange rates and then live on 100% of their income, a fluctuation of 25% can be a disaster.

Frugledoc, I was born in the UK, grew up in Canada from age 7 and more recently, lived in the UK again from 99 to 2006.  My wife lived all her life in the UK until we moved to Canada in 06.  Having seen what I have seen, I was a little nervous about how she would take to the move.  Would she 'stick' or not?  Well as it turned out, she took to Canada like a duck to water and now says even if I die before her, she has no intention of moving back to the UK. 

I kept telling her, 'if you don't like it, that's OK, just let me know and we will move somewhere else.  It doesn't matter to me where I live.'  I don't think she could understand why I kept saying she had an out if she wanted it.  My concern was how people perceive things psychologically.  I think a lot of people who try and don't take to it, then start beating themselves up as if they had 'failed' at something.  I don't see it that way at all and so wanted to make sure she did not do that if the 'different' was just too different for her.  As I wrote, it isn't good or bad, right or wrong. 

I'd say if you wanted to try NZ, then when the time comes go ahead and try it.  But don't set yourself up for failure.  If you say, 'we are moving to NZ to live in retirement', that can be setting yourself up for failure.  Your family and friends give you a 'goodbye' party, etc. and off you move, only to come back 2 years later with your tails between your legs and also having probably stayed longer trying to 'make it work' than you were really happy doing.

Instead, retire, pack up and tell everyone, we are off to NZ for a while.  It might be 6 months it might be 6 years, who knows, we're free to do as we please now and that's what we will do.  You can't 'fail' at that.  Don't paint yourself into a corner.

I like to think of myself in retirement as a sojourner.  That is, someone who lives temporarily in places.  I know where I am living today and where I lived in the past but have no idea where I will live in the future.  Like my time on Rhodes, I'm here now and just haven't decided to leave yet.

Dcheesi, I mentioned I never saw anyone leave with more money than they arrived with.  Your Brother sounds like a perfect example.  When I see TV shows like 'Househunters International' I think they are really irresponsible.  They show people who may not have even vacationed somewhere for a week going to some island and in a week, seeing some properties and buying one with the intention of living there. 

To me that is so wrong.  If you watch some shows like that, you will often see them being shown homes that are obviously lived in by an expat.  You can tell sometimes.  The seller's best hope is some new expat with rose coloured glasses who will buy the 'dream'.  The locals usually know that an expat looking to sell just wants out and so the local buyer will rarely offered to buy at anywhere near the price the disallusioned seller wants for it.  So they sell at a loss, just to get out.

Davids, again, nothing wrong with trying.  But rent, rent, rent for 1 or 2 years at least.  In fact, I rented for my entire time in Greece.  Sometimes tying up money in a house is not the best investment to make.  I could have bought a house but Greek government bonds at the time were paying 21% tax free.  It didn't take me long to figure out where I was better parking my money.

Schaeffer Light.  Like I said, it isn't for everyone and at least you know that it probably isn't for you.  I used to meet people on vacation who on day 4 were missing their dog and couldn't wait to get home.  Everyone is different and that's OK.

My favourite and true story of a tourist not liking a place goes like this.  An acquaintance of mine who worked as a Tour Company Rep during the season, had a womam come to her after 3 days saying that she wanted to go home on the next available flight and could the Rep arrange for that?  She was on a 2 week package tour, so the Rep asked what the problem was.  Did she not like the hotel?  Was someone bothering her as a single woman?  etc. etc.  The woman just kept saying, no nothing like that, I just want to go home, I don't like it here.

Finally, the woman came out with it and it went something like this.  'I didn't realize there would be so many foreigners here.  The hotel staff hardly even speak any English and the restaurants serve food I have never even heard of.It's just not like home at all.'

Some people really would be far better off visiting more of their own country.  LOL

lifejoy

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3928
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Canada, eh
  • Lovin' the Mustachian life!
    • Not Buying This
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2015, 02:46:19 PM »
Great post, old pro. And welcome back to Canada, eh :) You've reminded me of how good I've got it here. Frankly I don't adapt quickly, and I'd rather live in Canada in a yurt than deal with the culture shock of living elsewhere! But that's just me.

lise

  • Guest
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2015, 02:54:59 PM »
Great post.

I do intend to retire in NZ (wouldn't call it tropical but to me it's paradise) - but hey I grew up there and still have many ties to home.   Having said that, I have tried once before to settle back there in my 30s and I lasted 3 years so my retirement there might not stick either ;-)

Lian

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 141
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2015, 02:58:19 PM »
Great post! My long term goal is to retire outside of the US – maybe in a tropical paradise – maybe moving around to different countries.  I want to be flexible. I’ve read quite a bit online by people who already live in these areas, and so have learned that at least at first, I will want to rent rather than buy. I also plan on selling my stuff and living simply with relatively few things (I'm heading to simple living anyway even I don't leave the US), so there won’t be much to lose if it comes to that. I like to think I’m adaptable and adventurous enough that living in a new country will be good for me, but I won’t know until I try. I look forward to learning more from this thread. I like the idea of being a sojourner.

Cookie78

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Location: Canada
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2015, 03:07:51 PM »
Great post! My long term goal is to retire outside of the US – maybe in a tropical paradise – maybe moving around to different countries.  I want to be flexible. I’ve read quite a bit online by people who already live in these areas, and so have learned that at least at first, I will want to rent rather than buy. I also plan on selling my stuff and living simply with relatively few things (I'm heading to simple living anyway even I don't leave the US), so there won’t be much to lose if it comes to that. I like to think I’m adaptable and adventurous enough that living in a new country will be good for me, but I won’t know until I try. I look forward to learning more from this thread. I like the idea of being a sojourner.

This is how I feel too. I can't imagine buying a house anywhere foreign because I want to go see so many places. Maybe that will change some day, but only after I've been in the same place a long time and decide I don't want to leave. Already working on decluttering and selling all the crap I've accumulated.

Thanks for starting the thread, great advice all around. I get excited at the thought of learning about and adapting to differences in places, so I'm glad to hear that's a key point for success. :)

YK-Phil

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1173
  • Location: Nayarit (Mexico)
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2015, 03:32:37 PM »
This is exactly how I've understood life, ever since I heard the story of Mr. Séguin's little goat when I was a small boy. Yes, the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.

okits

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 13063
  • Location: Canada
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2015, 09:56:44 PM »
Really great insights, OldPro.  Thank you for sharing!

MMMaybe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 390
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2015, 12:14:25 AM »
This is a very necessary post. I do feel that many people are wearing rose coloured glasses as you suggest, OldPro.

I am not retired but have lived in many of these places as an expat. I would suggest that while it does make a difference whether or not you can accept the "different"...it can also get to a point where you just don't want to deal with it at all.

I can definitely see the pros in retiring somewhere developing but there are significant cons too. I am really thinking about moving to a developed country next so that I can enjoy some convenience. A lot of basic stuff is just plain hard to get done here and its best not to underestimate the impact of cultural differences. If island time or slow paced living drive you mad, just think about dealing with it for every aspect of your life, every day. It wears you down and many expats need to get off the rock regularly for a mental health break...

Some days, I feel like I have fought a war and I just needed to get something rather basic and mundane done...

dude

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2369
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2015, 07:34:28 AM »
Great advice. I've never considered living outside the U.S. full-time; rather, I really look forward to spending 2-3 months abroad, renting out a condo or villa in locations where I've first visited for a week or two and gotten a feel for.  I wouldn't ever consider buying property in a foreign country.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8186
  • Location: United States
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2015, 07:46:57 AM »
When I see TV shows like 'Househunters International' I think they are really irresponsible.  They show people who may not have even vacationed somewhere for a week going to some island and in a week, seeing some properties and buying one with the intention of living there. 


Those shows are fake though. The people "house-hunting" have often lived in the country for years, and are frequently looking at houses not even for sale.

OldPro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 167
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2015, 10:14:28 AM »
Umm, that's interesting iowajes.  But even if true, it doesn't change the fact that it encourages viewers to think it is OK to fly to some 'island paradise' they think they would like to retire to and in a week, buy a house.  That's what is irresponsible.

Dude, your plan makes complete sense.  It maintains your freedom to chose.

MMMaybe, obviously you have the experience to know what you are talking about.  I think that if someone wants to retire in another country for weather or whatever, that's fine but I also think that they have a better chance of 'sticking', the more like home the new country is.  In other words, for all the reasons you recognize, the more developed that country is the better.  Underdeveloped countries with lower cost of living are as I wrote, lower cost for a reason and those reasons are generally negative.

Ykphil, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence when you look at it through rose coloured glasses.  LOL

Cookie78, when I FIREd, I put some possessions into a storage locker, packed a shoulder bag and left.  After a year on the road I called my Brother back home and told him the rent on the locker was coming up (I'd prepaid a year) and I wanted him to go with my Son and empty the locker out.  Keep what they wanted, sell anything worth selling and throw the rest away.  I figured anything I hadn't missed in a year was not anything I needed. 

Lian, I can't emphasize enough the importance of people not painting themselves into a corner by telling family and friends they are 'going to live somewhere'.  Saying you are just 'going and will see what happens' is a far better approach.  Saying you plan to try sojourning is even better.  Although you may find some will look at you like you are crazy.  For some people the idea of not having a fixed 'base' or 'home' is simply not imaginable.

I know what the term 'homesickness' means in theory but I have no personal experience of it.  Home for me is literally where I am today.  Whether I stay somewhere a week, a month or a year, it's all the same.  I remember the first time a tourist asked me why I decided to stay on Rhodes and I answered as I have said, I never decided to stay, I just hadn't decided to leave yet.  That for me was a bit of an ephiphany.  I realized then that 'home' was just a state of mind, not a place. 


OldPro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 167
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2015, 10:26:40 AM »
Time for a couple of fun stories of the reality of retiring to 'paradise'.

Most people have heard of 'island time' in one place or another.  In fact, it is common to many places and simply indicates that life is lived at a different pace.

In Greece, 'time' is a very vague thing.  For example, in Greek the word for 'tomorrow' is 'avrio.'  Now when someone like a plumber says to you that he will come to fix your toilet 'avrio'.  What that really means is some time within the next week or so.  It's flexible.

Another term you learn to understand is 'meta avrio' which means 'after tomorrow'.  When the plumber says he will come 'avrio' you learn to ask him 'avrio eh meta avrio?', 'tomorrow or after tomorrow?'  That's because 'meta avrio' means only the gods know when and if he will come.

You arrange to meet someone for coffee at your local kafenion (coffee shop/bar) at say 1pm.  He arrives at 3pm and doesn't even mention the time.  No need to apologize, 1pm just means some time after 1pm.

One time I was expecting to receive a relatively important letter in the mail.  I checked the mail box every day for a week and no letter.  Then I noticed that no mail was arriving at all and asked my landlord if the mailmen were on strike or something perhaps.  I was looking for a logical reason.

My landlord said, 'the mailman takes his vacation in August'.  End of answer as if that should be all he had to tell me for me to understand.  That encompasses not only the laid back attitude to time but also Greek logic which is a truly amazing thing.  You see, if the mailman is on vacation then logically, he cannot be delivering the mail.  You gotta love Greek logic or guess what, you probably won't 'stick'.

My favourite Greek joke goes like this.  What does a Greek man do when he gets the urge to do some real work.  I mean real physical down and dirty hard work?  Answer.  He lies down until the urge goes away.

Rika Non

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 144
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2015, 10:51:30 AM »
OldPro:

I just wanted to say that I am reading your posts and find them very interesting.  I am a traveler that in many locations has had the thought of "it would be nice to stay", but I know with my other half that will never happen.

Your writing is very appreciated, I hope you keep up the posts.

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2015, 11:51:44 AM »
Interesting thread. I'm currently living in my second foreign country as an expat. Still far from being ready to retire, but when I do the most likely destination is back to where I came from. I'm reasonably adaptable now in my 30-ties, but I suspect it well be less of a case when I become older. I'd prefer to speak my native language when I'm old.

About buying property abroad on the spot: I would never do, but I know an older couple from Belgium who did that on their vacation to Corsica few years ago. They are still there, but I haven't heard if they still love it. It probably helps that the move is not that "exotic" albeit Corsicans are sometimes not that fond of outsiders who stay long.

MonkeyJenga

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8894
  • Location: the woods
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2015, 03:05:32 PM »
Thanks for writing about your experience. I've had the "live on a beach somewhere, own almost nothing" dream, and it's nice to combat that with the occasional reality check. One plus for me is that I'm currently fighting my own internal "island time" clock, so I'd probably do better than most with that. One other positive is that my concept of housing costs has been so skewed by NYC that I could just move to a coastal state, cut my expenses in half, and not worry about all the other negatives.

OldPro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 167
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2015, 03:11:09 PM »
Albert, my wife and I are big fans of Switzerland.  I've probably spent a total of a year there over the last 3 decades or so.  Hiking has always been something I have loved and of course nowhere can beat the Alps for that or Switzerland for the trail system.

I usually do what I call 'crediti card camping' in Switzerland.  A change of clothes, a rainjacket and a toiletry bag in a day pack with enough room left over for a picnic lunch and off we go for a however long.  All we have to do each evening is find a place where we can rent a bed for the night with a credit card (OK sometimes I use cash).  Voila, 'credit card camping'.

I've walked from Basel to Geneva, Basel to Ascona, each in one go and numerous smaller day or overnight routes as well.

But much as we both love it there, we would not live there.  Cultural differences would be the issue.  I just can't get past that you can't cut the grass on Sunday without your neighbour phoning the police and reporting you.  LOL

MonkeyJenga, re expenses.  During my time in Greece I lived on zero of my income for over 4 years.  I helped my landlord around the property with maintenance and minor construction in return for free rent.  I was single and my live-in girlfriend who was 19 years my junior bought the groceries.  I spent evenings in the tourist season at a friend's bar playing pool with the tourists in return for which my drinks were free and I was paid pocket money.  Net outgoing from my pocket per month, zero.

kib

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 195
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2015, 03:29:54 PM »
Considering the fact that I am ERE and generally purchase-averse, I think it's funny that what eventually pulled the plug for me on a quiet, pleasant and cheap small town in the middle of Mexico was the lack of shopping.  No, not for fancy clothes or a new car, for things like hose washers and a  pillow, fresh produce and sunscreen. Even if a place is friendly and safe, if it is very low cost it may not have the standard goods one relies on.  Until I lived in a place that didn't stock the necessities of my life, and really understood that Fedex isn't an option everywhere, I never realized the non-mustachian element of being so isolated.  Three hours drive on a terrible road for caulk and a copy of my front door key?  Nope. I can only imagine how much harder that might be on a small island - paradise only until you run out of bug spray.  It was a good kick in the pants about how spoiled even the least spoiled first-worlders actually are, though.  I could manage a certain degree of 'different', but eventually the determination to make do with rotting garden hose and a fan that only worked on Low and if you tilted it to the right got the better of me.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 03:43:35 PM by frufrau »

BlueHouse

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4142
  • Location: WDC
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2015, 07:52:28 PM »
Interesting perspective. Thanks! 
I spent a few months in the bush and was fine until I had to interact with some local beauracracy. My meltdown sent me to a 4 star hotel where all I wanted was hot water, a tub, and some clean towels.
After three days I was ready for more time in the bush, but you're right that it was the culture clash of civilization that sent me over the edge. I could live with nothing for a long time by myself, but strangers and strange customs are more taxing for me.
Great post old pro!

MMMaybe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 390
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2015, 12:32:52 AM »
The frustration gets compounded by the fact that you absolutely cannot lose your temper or make a scene. It is counter-productive in the extreme, even if you are completely in the right.

If you embarass someone or make them lose face, you will get what you want on a cold day in hell or it will happen at a snail's pace. I am super pleasant and fake patience all the time but sometimes my inner voice is a little murderous. I don't know if you've ever heard the saying, "Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey..." but it is extremely applicable in countries like here. Its a saying from the British Raj, where locals tried to teach Brits how to catch monkeys for pets by using patience and stealth...

Those of you with a propensity to stomach ulcers may have to weigh that up!

The bonus is when I get back to the West, I will probably be the world's best customer :)

OldPro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 167
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2015, 09:56:28 AM »
It's good to see some others adding their own examples of the reality of llving in another country and the differences you encounter.  Some of the smallest things can become real irritants.

Frufrau, your examples are good ones.  Try this on for size.  The first trip I had to make to a hardware store in Greece was for a lightbulb for my bebside lamp.  No big deal, I didn't have your problem of distance to contend wtih.  I could walk to a hardware store.  So I bought a 60 watt lightbulb went home and .... it was the wrong kind.  In N. America we are used to normal screw in bulbs but in Europe they also have bayonet types which you push in and turn to lock in.  So I had bought a screw type and the lamp took bayonet type.  Back to the hardware store.

Now comes the fun.  In N. America, we are used to returning a product if it is not suitable.  Often you can get a refund or exchange it but pretty always you can at least exchanage it.  Not in Greece.  You bought it, you own it.  When I explained it was the wrong type, the hardware merchant just shrugged his shoulders and said, 'son now you need to buy the right one'.  No exchange, you keep the one that is useless to you and you buy a new one.

Bluehouse, people in all countries no doubt complain about bureaucracy and the hoops they make you jump through to get anything done.  I certainly did, growing up in Canada.  But I had no idea of just how far it could be taken until I lived in Greece.  Bureaucrats in Greece practice it as an art form.  There is nothing you can do in 1 visit to a government office of any kind that they cannot make a 10 visit job.

Eventually when dealing with them I adopted the expectation of never getting anything resolved in any visit.  That way when after 7 or 8 visits they finally told me, 'ok, that's it done', I got a pleasant surprise.

MMMaybe, I knew an English guy who wanted to open a bar on Rhodes.  During my own 2-4th years there, I owned a bar along with a Greek partner.  This guy was trying to get his bar up and running at the same time as we were.  My partner told me, here's how it works.  We pay a guy $1000 and he arranges(read spreads the money around) for us to get a license, etc. and open in 8 weeks.  Or we try to do it ourselves and it takes maybe 6-9 months.  We paid and opened for the beginning of the tourist season, no problem. 

Well, the English guy decided he could do it himself.  So he started making the rounds of the appropriate city offices to get his license, fire department clearance, etc.  He missed the beginning of the season and of course while all this is going on, he is paying rent for the building.  By mid-season (about 6 months since he started the process) he was going crazy and one day, he blew his top.  He made a scene (putting it mildly) in City Hall, demanded to see the Mayor, started quoting European Union law and how Greece must comply, etc. etc. 

Here's what then happened.   His car was impounded for driving over 6 months on foreign registration.  He never saw that car again.  He refused to give up on 'principle' and they took him around and around in circles for 2 YEARS.  He left to visit the UK about a year in to it and on his return he was refused entry at the island airport and sent back to the UK.  He had to go to the Greek Embassy in London, plead his case and get permission to return to Greece.  He returned and carried on trying to get his license.  He was afraid to leave again in case they denied him on return again.  Finally after 2 years he got the license and opened the bar.  On his first night at 12.01am the police came in the door and fined him for playing music after midnight (you can be open but music must be turned off). 

Finally, he realized that he was not going to be allowed to do anything on the island, ever.  He left, left the bar sitting all done up, got on a plane and went back to England.  Lesson finally learned.  Two weeks later, the owner of the building opened the bar.

Another guy I knew got offered a job on a dive boat as the 'engineer'.  Commercial vessels of a certain size and carrying a certain number of paying passengers must have an 'engineer' as well as a skipper.  So an English guy who owned the dive company offered this guy a job as he had the necessary qualifications.  ie. paper certifications.

The harbourmaster has to approve the qualifications however and when he took his papers to the Harbourmaster and asked to be approved, he was refused.  First story, 'they're in English, they must be in Greek or accompanied by a certified Greek translation.'  Sounds reasonable.  But that was just the start.  Round and round he went, first he needs to have this and then he needs to have that.  This went on for a couple of months.

One day he was telling me about it and I said to him, 'It sounds to me like they don't want you to have the job.  I don't know but my guess is they have somebody else in mind for the job regardless of who the business owner wants to offer the job to.  I don't think you're ever going to get approval.  You're wasting your time.  Find something else.'  Eventually, he gave up and did find something else as a welder.  No problem getting his papers approved.  The 'engineer' job?  That went to the Harbourmaster's nephew.

Sometimes though, the differences can work for you.  For example, if I got a parking ticket I took it to a Greek friend of mine who owned an Italian Restaurant.  Huh?  His Brother-in-law was the police sargeant at our local village police station.  The ticket disappeared.

You can only drive a foreign registered car for 6 months and then you must register it in Greece and put Greek plates on it.  If not, the car can be impounded (as per bar guy above).  I drove a 1983 red MGB convertible for 4 years with UK registration plates on it.  It's pretty hard to not notice a car like that on a little island.  Never got stopped once.  Why?  Because I was known and had 'face' on the island. 

I got stopped on my Vespa scooter one day at a spot check and when asked to produce my insurance papers, I did, only to discover the insurance had expired.  Unlike elsewhere, they don't send you out a notice that renewal time is approaching.  You're expected to pay attention and go to them if you want to renew.  So the cop says to me, 'your insurance is expired'.  I thought, 'oh shit, now I'm in trouble.'  He said, 'I know you, you have been here several years, you are from Canada.  What would the police do in Canada?'  I said, 'They would fine me and not let me drive till I had insurance.'  He smiled and then said, 'See how much better it is that you live on Rodos.  Ride right now to the insurance office and pay your insurance.'

Not all differences are bad ones. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 10:02:54 AM by OldPro »

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2015, 10:26:34 AM »
Albert, my wife and I are big fans of Switzerland.  I've probably spent a total of a year there over the last 3 decades or so.  Hiking has always been something I have loved and of course nowhere can beat the Alps for that or Switzerland for the trail system.

I usually do what I call 'crediti card camping' in Switzerland.  A change of clothes, a rainjacket and a toiletry bag in a day pack with enough room left over for a picnic lunch and off we go for a however long.  All we have to do each evening is find a place where we can rent a bed for the night with a credit card (OK sometimes I use cash).  Voila, 'credit card camping'.

I've walked from Basel to Geneva, Basel to Ascona, each in one go and numerous smaller day or overnight routes as well.


I love hiking as well albeit usually just a day or two at a time. One of the best parts about living in Switzerland.

But much as we both love it there, we would not live there.  Cultural differences would be the issue.  I just can't get past that you can't cut the grass on Sunday without your neighbour phoning the police and reporting you.  LOL

Yeah, there is that. I'm here for a job and besides money there are many pluses on living here, but I don't see it as an ideal retirement location either and not because of cost.

Mississippi Mudstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2173
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Danielsville, GA
    • A Riving Home - Ramblings of a Recusant Woodworker
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2015, 10:44:29 AM »
I enjoy your stories and perspective, OldPro. Your description of the bureaucracy in Rodos reminds me of my experience in Brazil. I was there for 3 months in college. I'll admit that I found it difficult to adapt to the culture. Really, though, the biggest barrier was language. I feel like I could have integrated into the society much better if I spoke Portuguese more fluently. A couple years after my travels to Brazil, my sister and her husband moved there for 2 1/2 years while he headed up an engineering project with his company. After six months, they were quite fluent and they ended up loving it down there. I went to visit them for two weeks, and it amazed me how comfortable they were.

My brother-in-law told me a story about getting his first speeding ticket in Brazil. The police will not pull you over down there. I don't even think it's legal for them to. So, basically, everyone drives like a maniac, until they come to these gigantic "speed humps" at the edge of every town, or until they come to the speeding cameras. The speeding cameras are well-marked, so everyone just slams on their brakes right before they get to them. Well, my brother-in-law didn't understand that even a single MPH over the limit will trigger a ticket, and when he received the ticket in the mail, it didn't include a picture or anything - just a bill for something like $180 (can't remember if it was US$ or reais). He wanted to dispute the ticket, since there was apparently no evidence that he was the driver, but he was told in no uncertain terms that he was to pay the ticket and that was that. There was no appeals process. So, he paid up and made sure to slow down in the future.

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2015, 10:54:58 AM »
And since OldPro wrote so much about Greece let's not forget that all this petty corruption and just general inefficiency has landed them in a not very happy place. Maybe a bit less so in the islands because tourists are still coming, but on the mainland for sure. They'll have to change something…

golden1

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1541
  • Location: MA
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2015, 12:16:48 PM »
This is fascinating because it compares so closely to what I learned from my parents adventures with attempted island retirement....


When I graduated college, my parents tried to semi-retire to a Caribbean island, and they made pretty much every mistake you listed.

1) They decided to move there after visiting the island (Tortola in BVI) precisely once based on a vacation experience.

2) They bought a house that was at the highest point on the island, with huge glass windows.  Maybe you see where this is going.....

3) They didn't have enough money to fully retire so they decided to go into the boat chartering business, which they had zero experience doing.

4) They had almost no knowledge of the culture, or people or any other relevant information that would be helpful.

So they move down, and brought down the two boats they owned.  Then they found out they needed this permit, and that permit etc.... They refused to "expedite"  anything and so they were basically blocked at every turn.  My step father was a high powered type A attorney and tried to muscle and bully his way through everything, which went over like a ton of bricks.  He finally clued into the fact that he would need a partner with island connections to get anything done, so he picked a guy who was an owner of a local hotel.  The idea was that he would offer day chartering and diving experiences to people who stayed in the hotel.  So the partner asks my stepfather if he could take the boat out himself occasionally.  As a gesture of good faith, my step father agrees.  To be continued....

While this is going on, they settle in the house.  Everything looks great until the first real hurricane comes through.  My parents call me during one to tell me goodbye because they are pretty sure they are going to die.  Apparently, being in an all glass house on the top of an island has it's downside.  They make it through okay, but several of the windows break and the house is pretty damaged, which they of course didn't budget for.

Like you said, island time is definitely a real thing.  Something would break on one of the boats, and my stepfather would call a repair guy who would promise to come on tuesday.  Tuesday rolls around and nothing.   He calls back and the guy says "Oh I didn't mean THIS tuesday." and hangs up.  Apparently everything was like this.  It drove my stepfather insane, and he would scream and yell and this just made everything worse.

So they struggling and running through cash like crazy, and they are calling me up asking me for loans, which I stupidly agreed to, not knowing what was really going on.  Then all of a sudden I get a call that they are pulling up stakes and coming home, NOW.  It took me years before I found out why, but apparently the partner, who was "borrowing" one of the boats, was running drugs with it.  He grounded the boat accidently and the authorities found it, and my stepfather decided to leave before he got somehow implicated.  My mother told me this years later after divorcing my stepfather, so I am not 100% clear on the details, but knowing what I know about the man, I believe it.

Granted this is an obscenely ridiculous worst case scenario, and not representative of anything typically experienced by overseas island retirees, but your stories of Greece reminded me of it.

HazelStone

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 118
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2015, 01:04:09 PM »
I just love the folks who say "I'll retire in Latin America and live like a king for $1200/month." Mainly the folks who never questioned their consumption habits and therefore have little to nothing saved for old age. The conversation usually goes like this:

(Have you ever spent serious time outside the country?) Does Canada or Cancun count?
(Okay, do you speak the language?) - No, or barely enough to order a beer.
(What kind of house are you thinking?) - Something similar to what I have, but waterfront!  Oh, and I'll have a maid and a gardener! They work real cheap down there!
(Yeah, the ones that don't speak English. No, seriously, how much are you planning to spend on a house down there, or on rent?) "I'll just search for some places on the Internet"
(Do you like the local cuisine?) - Screw that I'm eating at the American chains or ordering pizza. 
(Are you giving up your car?) - Are you nuts?!
(How's your health?) - I get regaled with a litany of medical issues suggesting mobility problems sooner or later. (Er, you realize that Medicare doesn't work down there, right?) *blank stare* (And there aren't laws requiring disability accommodations either...)

Retiring south of the border is cheap only to the extent that you live like the locals do. You want to live like an American? You'll pay American prices or worse. Waterfront property still costs an arm and a leg. Living in a tourist zone is still costly. Eating at American chains costs the same or sometimes more. Eating cheap means eating like the locals do, not like the average American does. Energy tends to be expensive, so don't crank up the AC too often (assuming you have any).

You can get decent, basic healthcare/dental care for cheap, sure...if you speak the local language. A doctor fluent in English or German is going to charge more.

You are no longer in American Suburbia, parking that car will be more difficult and you will still be expected to walk more...on streets that seem to have puked up their cobblestones. There are nice malls there, but generally more expensive than similar ones here.

Your housing will be cheap partly because the housing is smaller. If you want to downsize/go minimalist, that's fine. If you still want a McMansion, well, at least you still have the climate going for you.

Oh, and your pesky neighbors have the temerity to still speak in the local language around you, even if you have had a very bad day and a huge headache... :P Or, worse, the cops might not speak it at all :-O

And then the different view on time- I could go on, but the OP has already covered it. Bouncing around Mexico for 6 months when I was 20 was an adventure. Doing it at 70 would be a very different game. In The Shawshank Redemption, Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman's characters escape/flee to Zijuatanejo. A sweet ending, but what do you think their standard of living was really like?

(Also, have you SEEN how enormous the bugs and spiders get down there?!)

Letj

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 415
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2015, 05:44:05 PM »
This is fascinating because it compares so closely to what I learned from my parents adventures with attempted island retirement....


When I graduated college, my parents tried to semi-retire to a Caribbean island, and they made pretty much every mistake you listed.

1) They decided to move there after visiting the island (Tortola in BVI) precisely once based on a vacation experience.

2) They bought a house that was at the highest point on the island, with huge glass windows.  Maybe you see where this is going.....

3) They didn't have enough money to fully retire so they decided to go into the boat chartering business, which they had zero experience doing.

4) They had almost no knowledge of the culture, or people or any other relevant information that would be helpful.

So they move down, and brought down the two boats they owned.  Then they found out they needed this permit, and that permit etc.... They refused to "expedite"  anything and so they were basically blocked at every turn.  My step father was a high powered type A attorney and tried to muscle and bully his way through everything, which went over like a ton of bricks.  He finally clued into the fact that he would need a partner with island connections to get anything done, so he picked a guy who was an owner of a local hotel.  The idea was that he would offer day chartering and diving experiences to people who stayed in the hotel.  So the partner asks my stepfather if he could take the boat out himself occasionally.  As a gesture of good faith, my step father agrees.  To be continued....

While this is going on, they settle in the house.  Everything looks great until the first real hurricane comes through.  My parents call me during one to tell me goodbye because they are pretty sure they are going to die.  Apparently, being in an all glass house on the top of an island has it's downside.  They make it through okay, but several of the windows break and the house is pretty damaged, which they of course didn't budget for.

Like you said, island time is definitely a real thing.  Something would break on one of the boats, and my stepfather would call a repair guy who would promise to come on tuesday.  Tuesday rolls around and nothing.   He calls back and the guy says "Oh I didn't mean THIS tuesday." and hangs up.  Apparently everything was like this.  It drove my stepfather insane, and he would scream and yell and this just made everything worse.

So they struggling and running through cash like crazy, and they are calling me up asking me for loans, which I stupidly agreed to, not knowing what was really going on.  Then all of a sudden I get a call that they are pulling up stakes and coming home, NOW.  It took me years before I found out why, but apparently the partner, who was "borrowing" one of the boats, was running drugs with it.  He grounded the boat accidently and the authorities found it, and my stepfather decided to leave before he got somehow implicated.  My mother told me this years later after divorcing my stepfather, so I am not 100% clear on the details, but knowing what I know about the man, I believe it.

Granted this is an obscenely ridiculous worst case scenario, and not representative of anything typically experienced by overseas island retirees, but your stories of Greece reminded me of it.

This is an awesome awesome thread. Please please keep the stories coming because my dream is to retire to an island in the caribbean and live there half the year. Oldpro, what great stories and life experience you've had.

mozar

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3503
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2015, 09:30:53 PM »
This thread is giving me ptsd flashbacks of living in Puerto Rico for six years as a kid, and Puerto Rico is an American territory. Regular brown outs. Regularly having the water shut off. I learned how to shower with one gallon of water. Try living somewhere with 100% humidity AND 100F. I would regularly get heat rashes and puss would ooze out. You can't leave the house without being trailed by a cloud of mosquitoes, which carry dengue fever btw. The government trucks would come by our street and spray deet everywhere. And this was considered a good thing. Forget about functioning government or infrastructure. Oh blessed infrastructure and hot, regular water. How I looove thee!
People used to ask me if I would ever move back. Hell no! I refuse to visit!
Re: HazelStone- I'm having the exact same conversation with my dad.
Dad: I'm going to live on the beach in Thailand with a maid and cheap health insurance!
Me: Do you speak the language?
Dad: No
I got him to order a book about tips for living overseas. Hopefully that will help.

Melchior

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Location: The End of Time
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2015, 12:09:10 AM »
I spent almost two years stationed on a small remote island in the Indian Ocean. It was an interesting experience. At first it may have felt like paradise but that quickly faded to feeling like a prison as I could not leave until my time was up. And yet, somehow, I long to go back to that time. I miss island time; after a while everything that feels important kind of fades into meaninglessness and when you have no choice but to stay at a place, time really stretches out and seems to last for ages.

It feels like a paradox. When on the island I wanted desperately to get off the island because I felt there was so much going on elsewhere and so much that I needed to be doing to contribute to that. And yet, now that I'm out and working hard at some of these things I imagined myself doing, I really want to get back to that safe, isolated time on the island. You can never go home =/

OldPro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 167
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2015, 09:07:40 AM »
SnackDog, what struck me on a return trip to visit family and friends was the pace at which people walk in the city.  I grew up in a a large city (Toronto) but never noticed just how much of a 'fast' society we live in in N. America.  I was walking downtown and people were passing me left and right, all apparently in a hurry to get somewhere. 

That led me to thinking about why 'fast food' was invented in N. America.  How long do you think the average city dweller spends on lunch?  Maybe 15 minutes, 20?  Time actually spent sitting down at lunch.

When I lived on Rhodes, I used to go to a local kafenion for a coffee.  I started out being there maybe 15-20 minutes.  After a couple of years, going for coffee took up 3 hours.  Lunch or dinner much the same.

Melchoir, I used to joke that living on a beach type island meant you had no where to go on vacation anymore.  When you live in sun, sand and babes with a laid back lifestyle, what would you go on vacation for?   LOL

Mozar, I've never heard anyone refer to somewhere as inducing PTSD before.  Good one.

Hazelstone, yes, all true to one degree or another.  Although not every wannabe expat is quite as bad as the picture you paint.

Golden1, groannnnnn.  Such a story is unfortunately far too common.  Why people seem to leave their common sense at home when they make a move, I don't understand.  Your story includes quite a few of the truly classic mistakes people make.

I happen to know the BVIs quite well.  I used to sail quite a bit and in fact have my USCG 'six pack' (qualified to skipper a boat with up to 6 paying passengers).  I've sailed in the BVIs half a dozen times.  It's one of the best places to sail in the world.

Unfortunately, you're wrong when you write, "Granted this is an obscenely ridiculous worst case scenario, and not representative of anything typically experienced by overseas island retirees."  It's all too common in one form or another.  I remember a German guy who opened a little German restaurant in the village where I lived on Rhodes. 

Now this village does see some tourists but it is off the 'beaten path' a bit as far as the major tourist areas.  So you have to figure that the majority of your customers are going to be locals.  How many locals do you think were interested in bratwurst and sauerkraut?  I was probably their best customer, regularly having lunch there once a week or so.  The couple and their 2 young daughters lasted 2 years before they finally had to give up and move back to Germany.  Like I said, I never saw anyone leave with more money than they came with and most left with a lot less including that couple.


takeahike

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 92
  • Location: Alberta
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2015, 01:05:55 PM »
I've watched so many house hunter shows, seems a lot are in the caribbean. My first thought is "why are you buying a house?" and "how many boat drivers does a little island need?" because they all seem to buy an over-budget house and become boat-driver people. This cannot be the formula for success. I wish they would do a follow-up show after 2 years.

LLCoolDave

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 103
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Vagabonding
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2015, 01:13:15 PM »
This looks like the International Living problem. "You have never lived outside the US but you are 50, not willing to work another 15 years. Find another location for $1200 per month." If you enjoy travel and are willing to rent for a couple of years to find a place you love the better you will be.. The younger the better. You will want to go home more as you get older.

Personally I have wanted to live abroad since my early 20's. Now in my 30's.

Albert

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1244
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2015, 01:32:56 PM »
Just to state the obvious, but it's a huge difference whether you move abroad for a job, for education or for retirement. So far I've only tried the first two…

I have an American co-worker, married to a French woman. One of my French co-worker said that he speaks the language so well that he can't hear the difference from a native speaker. Anyway his mother comes over from Midwest once a year for a week or two to visit and help with his young kids. The woman is scared to go farther than the courtyard alone or with kids. In Switzerland!!! So the ability to adapt is different for different people and older people are definitely less adaptable. Particularly those who have never traveled in their youth.

vern

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 592
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2015, 02:10:39 PM »
I lived in Greece for about two years back in the 80's.  I absolutely loved it there, but I guess I was still in the "honeymoon" phase when I left so what the hell do I know?

When I first arrived it was very difficult for me to adjust to the whole drinking coffee in a café for hours at a time.  I used to slam a cup down and get up to leave.  My Greek friends would say "Stop, wait, where are you going?"  After a while I really started to enjoy just sitting on the sidewalk chatting and people watching.   

Just wanted to chime in and say there is nothing that I can argue with in anything OldPro posted.  Great information!

Maybe I'll post some more avrio.

jzb11

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2015, 04:37:39 PM »
.Until I lived in a place that didn't stock the necessities of my life, and really understood that Fedex isn't an option everywhere, I never realized the non-mustachian element of being so isolated.  Three hours drive on a terrible road for caulk and a copy of my front door key?  Nope. I can only imagine how much harder that might be on a small island - paradise only until you run out of bug spray.  It was a good kick in the pants about how spoiled even the least spoiled first-worlders actually are, though.  I could manage a certain degree of 'different', but eventually the determination to make do with rotting garden hose and a fan that only worked on Low and if you tilted it to the right got the better of me.

This, this exactly.

The USA is not perfect by any means, but I don't think most Americans understand how well things function, and how much we have accessible, at our finger tips, at very low cost compared to other countries.

Living in Brazil has taught me that. Everything is expensive, you can't just run to a Walmart or giant 24/7 shopping center to find that inexpensive replacement item, the roads are bad, the dmv/state office are a mess, etc. homes are small, materials are inferior, sizes are smaller, etc.

Granted I live 15 minutes from beautiful beaches, alcohol is plentiful and inexpensive, and the women are more beautiful and friendlier than anywhere I've experienced.

There are serious trade offs.  On one hand I live in an idyllic tropical paradise with cocktails, coconut trees, and beautiful bikini clad beach babes. On the other I live in a broke dysfunctional mess where nobody follows the rules, the government doesn't work, and I have to constantly watch out for my safety.

okonumiyaki

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 190
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2015, 06:02:28 AM »
Good post.  We will probably retire to Bali.  I would prefer Java, but my wife (who is Indonesian) prefers Bali.  I lived in Indonesia for five years, so know the problems.  Oddly enough, I cope much better than my wife, who has little or no patience with "jam karet" (Rubber Time)  Javanese even has a word for the art of doing nothing (nongkrong)  Government offices have TV's so that the civil servants have something to do (watch day time soaps)

But I do like the place.  Bali is over touristed, but has kept its culture, it is like France or NYC in that respect.  Health care will be the biggest issue, it is shockingly bad - all rich Indonesians go to Penang or Singapore.

I grew up as an expat brat in India, and have lived/ worked in Japan, UK, HK, Indonesia, nowhere is really home, so I've adopted my wife's.  We did look at Canada, but she didn't like the BC weather, and is too far from family

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20798
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2015, 07:50:19 AM »
This has been a very interesting thread.  ;-)

Really, you don't have to move to another country to encounter major cultural shifts.  I moved 30 Kms and had to adapt.  The Km were from Quebec to Ontario, and from exuburbia (rural but not agricultural) to rural (mainly agricultural).  The grocery stores (big ones) all close at 6 on Saturday?!?!? Canadian Tire at 5 on Saturday?!?!? Really?!?!?  I was used to 11 and 6 respectively.

10 years later, I am still adapting.  Seriously, I think I have things all figured out, and something else comes up.  So even those thinking of moving from a high COl to a low COl area in their own country and/or own state/province may find major adjustment necessary.

Plus landscape - I miss trees - how  I miss trees in large quantities (i.e. forest). And the wildlife that goes with them.  If I move that will be one of the main reasons.

Roland of Gilead

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2015, 07:51:47 AM »
We want to eventually  move our retirement to a sailboat and tour these tropical paradises.   A whole new set of problems there but I hope to work through them.   Did you encounter any sailors during your stay on the Greek isle?

lise

  • Guest
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2015, 07:58:40 AM »
I moved to the US 10 years ago and I still marvel at the efficiencies of commerce, but also at the INEFFICIENCY of government agencies like the post office, IRS, DMV, and USCIS (Immigration).   It's so bureaucratic here and you never know what form to fill out and when you ask for help you get a surly repy.  I've travelled extensively through out the third world and at least for a small "fee" things get done!

Roland of Gilead

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2015, 08:04:15 AM »
I moved to the US 10 years ago and I still marvel at the efficiencies of commerce, but also at the INEFFICIENCY of government agencies like the post office, IRS, DMV, and USCIS (Immigration).   It's so bureaucratic here and you never know what form to fill out and when you ask for help you get a surly repy.  I've travelled extensively through out the third world and at least for a small "fee" things get done!

This is done on purpose for job security.

OldPro

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 167
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2015, 08:53:56 AM »
Roland, as I wrote in #36, I have done a lot of sailing and sure I met some sailors including expat liveaboards in Greece.  As you say, it has its own unique issues but also shares many of the same issues as a land based retiree would encounter. 

In many ways, retiring on a boat is very similar to retiring and full-timing in an RV.  While it differs by individual obviously, there is a pattern that is often followed to some degree.

In an RV people start out with the intention of touring from place to place.  Most quickly discover that an RV isn't actually very tour friendly unless it is a trailer and you can detach the vehicle, or you haul a vehicle.  You need transportation away from the RV, the same applies to a boat.  You can't spend days touring around an island without wheels.

Touring being a pain to set up on arrival/pack up to leave and move on, often changes to a series of at least a week stays in places.  Then it goes to a season in a place with just a direct, no distractions drive from A to B and park it.  Then it goes to why drive this back and forth every year, park it full time and fly to/from it.  Next comes, if we don't really move, why are we still in an RV, buy a park model.  Finally, comes, why are we stuck having to go to our park model in Florida every year?  Time to rent for the season and that way we can go other places if we want to each year.

It's not 100% the same for boats but I think if you do some research you will find a similar pattern.  Living for months in a cramped boat with cockroaches and condensation tends to wear a bit thin eventually.  Finding competent crew to stand watches on a longer passage is a pain and so tends to discourage moving sometimes. 

Please do not plan to do some chartering.  It seems like half the people who plan to retire on a boat also plan to do some chartering to make a bit of extra money.  First, you need to have an actual qualification such as the USCG 'six pack' to take paying guests, commercial insurance, additional necessary equipment, a way to get people on to the boat (website, charter agency, etc.) and various other pains in the butt with the worst IMO being having to put up with asshole guests.  Then you discover all the other boats trying to do the same thing.  The effort just isn't worthwhile overall.  Either it is a full time business or forget it.

So my advice is always much the same.  Don't say, 'I plan to live on a boat for the rest of my life'.  Simply plan, 'to start out on a boat' and see how it goes.  That difference in intent will change many decisions etc. at every point along the way through your retirement.


Roland of Gilead

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2015, 09:36:44 AM »
We actually plan to do the RV thing first, for about 5 or 6 years, then transition to the sailboat and do that for 5 or 6 years.   End game retirement will probably be a small house in Florida when we are in our late 60s.

As far as transportation, we built our RV to hold two dual sport motorcycles and we plan to purchase a sailboat large enough to hold two dual sport motorcycles for extended land excursions.

MMMdude

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 322
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2015, 02:55:54 PM »
Good info

Part of our retirement plan will be spending several months a year somewhere down South.  Not sure where exactly, but it will 100% for sure be rentals.  We have no interest in owning a 2nd property and the inherent headaches as we have seen first hand with my parent's issues on a property they own in Mexico.


EscapeVelocity2020

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4826
  • Age: 50
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: The reality of retiring to a 'tropical paradise'
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2015, 12:35:15 PM »
Not much to add, other than I could see myself downsizing to a small home base (and US mailing address), then going wherever the good weather is :)  I get most excited about going back to the places I have been, but also realistic about how easy it is, once you're abroad, to hear about somewhere new and check it out...  I also seriously have to get out to some national parks.  Thanks for sharing your experience, OldPro.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!