Author Topic: The most immoral thing you have seen/heard someone do to get/make money.  (Read 49275 times)

Erica/NWEdible

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On a lighter note...

People going around to several different library branches, registering their children for summer reading programs under several different aliases, in an effort to collect extra prices.
That's nothing. Did you know that libraries are supported by TAXES? *clutch pearls, faint*
This is one of the reasons why, despite a fairly libertarian personal philosophy, I don't begrudge paying my property tax bill at all. Here in Washington, there is no state income tax, so much of the state and local revenue comes from property taxes. So I looked at my property taxes. Almost all of what we pay goes to our local library system and our local school system. These are both things that I not only benefit from, I'd want them around even if I didn't personally benefit just to make the community a good place to live.
/thread hijak

forummm

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On a lighter note...

People going around to several different library branches, registering their children for summer reading programs under several different aliases, in an effort to collect extra prices.
That's nothing. Did you know that libraries are supported by TAXES? *clutch pearls, faint*
This is one of the reasons why, despite a fairly libertarian personal philosophy, I don't begrudge paying my property tax bill at all. Here in Washington, there is no state income tax, so much of the state and local revenue comes from property taxes. So I looked at my property taxes. Almost all of what we pay goes to our local library system and our local school system. These are both things that I not only benefit from, I'd want them around even if I didn't personally benefit just to make the community a good place to live.
/thread hijak

What? Are you telling me that the jack-booted thugs haven't belayed in via black helicopters and shot you and your family at night while you slept in your beds because you didn't pay taxes (AKA SLAVERY!!!!!) on the vegetables you grew in your garden? I mean they have to know about it right, because you put it on the Internet...

Erica/NWEdible

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What? Are you telling me that the jack-booted thugs haven't belayed in via black helicopters and shot you and your family at night while you slept in your beds because you didn't pay taxes (AKA SLAVERY!!!!!) on the vegetables you grew in your garden? I mean they have to know about it right, because you put it on the Internet...

They can't. They're too busy invading hostiles in the Southwest. Do you even Jade Helm, bro?



Note: total sarcasm.

grantmeaname

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You may be sarcastic but that map is pretty nice which means it can only have been made by the Washington St. army brass, and we both know they never joke around when it comes to enemy combatants.

BlueHouse

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A certain presidential candidate/golf course owner cut down all the trees on the potomac river along the banks of his golf course.  After he did it, he was fined and gladly paid the fines.  Clearly, he knew that if he had asked he wouldn't be granted permission, and this way, he's just buying what he wants. 
2 years later, he did the same thing in the same neighborhood to put up a tennis enclosure.  Money clearly buys his way out of trouble and he definitely believes he is above the law -- and so far, he has been.  I find it infuriating.  I think he's a bad man.

fartface

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This argument is very irritating and childish. If you want property rights, a national defense, a judicial system, law enforcement, an educated populace to promote economic growth and general welfare, clean water, clean air, roads, etc--all the stuff that makes your life possible, you pay in--in dollars created by the government. You are not required to pay. You are free to leave and go wherever else in the world you want to and not pay there. There's plenty of ocean or open land (Antarctica has quite a bit) or states like Somalia that don't have so many laws. The fact that you haven't done this indicates that the alternative to no taxes is worse.

Or were you looking for a government handout? Where the government does all this stuff on your behalf that you have already benefitted from, but you don't pay your share?

+1,000,000.....LOVE THIS. Well said. Bravo.

RetiredAt63

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This has been an interesting, although depressing, thread.

Not sure these are the most immoral, but they are up there:
Past - The West African people who sold their tribe mates and captured people from other tribes into slavery.  Slavers generally bought the slaves, they didn't have to go and find them.  More economical and efficient that way, don't you know?
Present - People who oppose all sorts of birth control and abortion (and education re same), but do nothing to help the women who have to have babies they don't want, including those of rape.  You want her to have that baby?  Fine, adopt it once it is born (generic "you" there). Henry Morgentaler was a hero.

On a lesser scale - parents who listen to people who diss vaccinations for no valid reason, don't get their children vaccinated, and increase the danger of those diseases to people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.  (Not to mention they are idiots, I remember how thrilled my parents were when the Salk and Sabine oral vaccinations came out).
People who move and leave their pet(s) behind, or get a kitten at the (rented) summer cottage, and leave it behind when they go home in the fall.  It can be days before the abandoned pet is found.  I just hope their children remember how disposable those who are "loved" can be.
People who abandon a sick cat at a gas station/fast food restaurant (been there, found the super friendly cat, took it to the vet, cursed the owners).


grantmeaname

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Present - People who oppose all sorts of birth control and abortion (and education re same), but do nothing to help the women who have to have babies they don't want, including those of rape.  You want her to have that baby?  Fine, adopt it once it is born (generic "you" there). Henry Morgentaler was a hero.

On a lesser scale - parents who listen to people who diss vaccinations for no valid reason, don't get their children vaccinated, and increase the danger of those diseases to people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.  (Not to mention they are idiots, I remember how thrilled my parents were when the Salk and Sabine oral vaccinations came out).
People who move and leave their pet(s) behind, or get a kitten at the (rented) summer cottage, and leave it behind when they go home in the fall.  It can be days before the abandoned pet is found.  I just hope their children remember how disposable those who are "loved" can be.
People who abandon a sick cat at a gas station/fast food restaurant (been there, found the super friendly cat, took it to the vet, cursed the owners).
All of those are bad, but I don't think any of them have a profit motive.

AlanStache

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Present - People who oppose all sorts of birth control and abortion (and education re same), but do nothing to help the women who have to have babies they don't want, including those of rape.  You want her to have that baby?  Fine, adopt it once it is born (generic "you" there). Henry Morgentaler was a hero.

On a lesser scale - parents who listen to people who diss vaccinations for no valid reason, don't get their children vaccinated, and increase the danger of those diseases to people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.  (Not to mention they are idiots, I remember how thrilled my parents were when the Salk and Sabine oral vaccinations came out).
People who move and leave their pet(s) behind, or get a kitten at the (rented) summer cottage, and leave it behind when they go home in the fall.  It can be days before the abandoned pet is found.  I just hope their children remember how disposable those who are "loved" can be.
People who abandon a sick cat at a gas station/fast food restaurant (been there, found the super friendly cat, took it to the vet, cursed the owners).
All of those are bad, but I don't think any of them have a profit motive.

In a stretch I could see applying the first one to people trying to get elected, but yeah. 

I work in the military industrial complex (sort of).... Sorry not a very good confession bear.

iris lily

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I don't understand the pile-on of kathryn. If the correct answer to the question of most immoral thing is murder for money and power,then GameOver. No more discussion necessary, end the thread.

But I thought this was a discussion board and a variety of opinions might be solicited.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 07:26:10 PM by iris lily »

grantmeaname

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I don't understand the pile-on of kathryn. If the correct answer to the question of most immoral thing is murder for money and power,then GameOver. No more discussion necessary, end the thread.

But I thought this was a discussion board and a variety of opinions might be solicited.
I don't think anybody said anything super far down towards the bottom of that Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement the forum is supposed to stay at the top of. The predominant reaction wasn't "you can't say that here", more "I disagree, and here's why". And that's the way a discussion board is supposed to work.

EDIT: Rereading, things started not good. But I think they ended up better.

fishnfool

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Car for sale ad, "must sell due to death in.family", nobody died! :(

Annamal

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On a lesser scale - parents who listen to people who diss vaccinations for no valid reason, don't get their children vaccinated, and increase the danger of those diseases to people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.  (Not to mention they are idiots, I remember how thrilled my parents were when the Salk and Sabine oral vaccinations came out).
.
All of those are bad, but I don't think any of them have a profit motive.

I would say that the people who are trying to convince parents not to vaccinate *sometimes* have a partial profit motive in that I believe that the guy who originally tried to link to autism to vaccinations made a lot  of money out of it.

Come to think of it any scientist willing to compromise their ethics in favour of income is pretty immoral.

BlueHouse

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Frackers -- I mean, they know that pumping chemicals into the ground can't be good, right? 

StartingEarly

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Dick Cheney causing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to make money through Halliburton.

GuitarStv

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If the correct answer to the question of most immoral thing is murder for money and power,then GameOver. No more discussion necessary, end the thread.

Child sex trafficking for money ranks as worse than murder in my books.  I think the net suffering inflicted is higher.

grantmeaname

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Frackers Farmers -- I mean, they know that pumping chemicals into the ground can't be good, right?
FTFY

Nannooskeeska

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Frackers -- I mean, they know that pumping chemicals into the ground can't be good, right?

My hometown is a big fracking area and we're seeing a lot of people move because of it. The sand mines look like huge scars on the landscape, and it's really sad to drive around and see that happening.

However, I also know a lot of people who have benefited from the mines. For example, a couple of farmers in my area sold their land for millions of dollars to the mining companies. But depending on how you look at it, that could also be seen as immoral... And I also know other farmers who have refused to sell their land to them because of what they would do to it.

The whole mining issue is fascinating to me.

grantmeaname

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Threadception!
When my wife and I moved cross-country after college, a friend of South Asian descent helped us out by driving with us. We had dinner one night at a Waffle House in Chattanooga, and Dusty the waitress was clearly pretty bothered to have a brown man in her restaurant. For some reason what felt right was to give her a big tip to show how little we cared about what she thought. As we walked out we saw her jaw drop.

But I wouldn't do that with something as big as a car.

(A big tip at Waffle House in Chattanooga is $5.)
If I meet you I'll pretend to be all racist and stuff so that you can disdainfully throw money at me :D

MLKnits

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A certain presidential candidate/golf course owner cut down all the trees on the potomac river along the banks of his golf course.  After he did it, he was fined and gladly paid the fines.  Clearly, he knew that if he had asked he wouldn't be granted permission, and this way, he's just buying what he wants. 
2 years later, he did the same thing in the same neighborhood to put up a tennis enclosure.  Money clearly buys his way out of trouble and he definitely believes he is above the law -- and so far, he has been.  I find it infuriating.  I think he's a bad man.

This kind of thing is why I admire the countries that have started to move towards fines geared to income. Of course a $200 speeding ticket doesn't deter a high-income or high-wealth dangerous driver. To someone earning minimum wage, it's 15 or 20 hours of work, but to others it's a few seconds' worth. Disproportionate punishment just allows high earners to feel, and be, above many laws.

---------------

And my response to the OP: how about cops stealing* cash from citizens (and visitors) because of trumped-up "suspicion of crime" because they know it's so hard to get the money/belongings back that many people don't bother? That's not genocide-level, but it's up there.

*"Seizing," in their lingo

MLKnits

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Frackers -- I mean, they know that pumping chemicals into the ground can't be good, right?

Oof, and the Susan G. Komen Foundation, proudly taking money from them and from other cancer-causing industries, and then spending very, very little on research. That's pretty damned immoral, and for a non-profit, they sure seem to have a profit motive.

music lover

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Al Gore made a couple hundred million on climate change lies and carbon credits, and then to top it off, sold his TV channel to Al Jazeera.

GuitarStv

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What do you have against Al Jazeera?

Bob W

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Immoral is such a nebulous and subjective thingy --


Regarding slavery --- most US citizens are fully unaware that it is still very much alive and legal.   I imagine that most reading this forum did not live during the Vietnam era when my friends were conscripted, against their wills, to fight and die in a foreign country at the whim of the Government.   For me that was the most immoral tragedy in my lifetime.   

For those of you non libertarians who think taxes are just peachy keen and the government should just do whatever it wants --- or that really the government never really kills people --- you may want to reconsider your thinking paradigm.   Yes, the government did in fact kill 100s of thousands of people during the civil war which was more about taxation that slavery.  (all other governments ended slavery by simply paying slave owners to free the slaves)

And yes the Government still has the power to conscript you sons, daughters and maybe even yourself to go and die wherever they desire.  You in fact are not free but are a slave with autonomy.

Bottom line for me ---- sending my friends to die in Vietnam was immoral in my eyes. 


GuitarStv

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I agree with you that conscription is often immoral.  I missed the part where you explained what conscription has to do with taxation though.

As far as Lincoln buying slaves . . . he tried that in Delaware, remember?  The slave owners weren't amenable.

forummm

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I think the underlying immorality of the Vietnam War itself is more concerning than who we sent to fight it, and how we selected them.

sol

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I think the underlying immorality of the Vietnam War itself is more concerning than who we sent to fight it, and how we selected them.
 

I was also not a fan of a future president of the United States getting away with treason by sabotaging the peace talks for personal gain.  Thousands of US servicemen died because Nixon wanted to be president so badly that he told the south Vietnamese ambassador to back out of the cease fire they were signing until after the election.  The war lasted five more years.

That's a little piece of US history that not many people know about.  This traitor was eulogized by Bill Clinton and memorialized in the national portrait gallery, instead of being consigned to obscurity for his crimes like Benedict Arnold.

Ghzbani

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...I go to a fast food restaurant and ask for a cup of water and instead fill it with a Diet Coke...

You monster!

MrsPete

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.
Of course, slavery wasn't invented by the American south.  It's been an institution across civilizations since before recorded history.  In all likelihood, some of those slaves were okay -- certainly robbed of dignity and freedom, but more like servants who just didn't have the option to leave and look for different jobs -- while others genuinely were raped, beaten, etc. 

If you want to look at JUST American history, I think our treatment of the American Indians was worse than our treatment of African slaves.  Remember the thing about giving the Indians blankets that were infected with smallpox?  I'd say handing over an item that YOU KNOW will cause another human being to die a painful death is worse than owning a slave and treating him humanely -- though expecting him to work without wages -- for his whole life. 
I think that pretending that the society and land you live in just exists with no input from you, taking and taking until you're in a relatively comfortable position in life, then complaining about taxes has got to be up there with slavery.
Yeah, I think we all owe it to society to "give back".  That isn't a universal truth on this website.
Quote
What about the way the native american indians were treated?
I think US society is more concerned about the treatment of blacks.   The confederate flag is viewed as a symbol of the past with all the negative connotations that go with it.   Perhaps a symbol that should be abandoned and left in the past, as is the national socialists swastika.

This is a good question. Both are bad. But I think the mistreatment of Native Americans is viewed as being long in the past.

I think the conquering of the lands that make up the US was viewed more as a one-time war. And war is viewed as a much more moral undertaking than slavery. And since that time there has been some formal recognition of the native tribes by the government. There are reservations for tribes, and tribes are given sovereignty. It's also much easier for a Native American to blend into white culture. Overall, the discrimination has been much, much less.

On the other hand, Africans were brought here for the explicit purpose of slavery. The slavery was incredibly brutal and dehumanizing. And it took place over the course of about 200 years. And then after the slavery, blacks have been continually discriminated against and taken an advantage of. So we're talking about ~350 years of mistreatment that continues today. After slavery there was sharecropping (like slavery but using economics and lack of education instead of whips and chains). Then Jim Crow. And now the criminal justice system. For about the last 300 years or so, segregation was legal and widespread. Now it's more of an economic and institutional racism that keeps blacks at a disadvantage. And it's not something they can escape easily by pretending to be white.
Both groups were badly mistreated, and neither has completely "rebounded":

Indian tribes have been given some rights that don't extend to other Americans.  They have the right to govern themselves on their reservations, for example.  They have rights over Indian children; a friend of mine adopted a child who was part Indian, and she couldn't finalize the adoption until X number of tribal chiefs approved it.  But their schools are horrible, which means their children aren't growing up and finding their ways into good jobs.  Their alcoholism rates are awful. 

On the other hand, blacks don't have anything resembling reservation /tribal rights -- probably because they were never "organized" into groups in the same way that Indians were.  What I see in high school is that black kids from middle/upper class families seem to achieve at rates similar to those of their white counterparts -- they make good grades, go on to college, they have great futures ahead of them ... but where I live that's maybe 25% of the total black population.  The black kids who don't have family support and who don't see the point in education tend to behave badly, and if they graduate it's with a GPA that won't get them into college.  They get chance after chance after chance -- but their background doesn't allow them to recognize that education is the key to their future.  At this point, you can't blame that on slavery; it's their families who hold them back. 

Kaspian

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I travelled 18 hours from Canada to meet my friend in Brussels.  Did a sweaty, exhausted walk from the train station to my hotel.   After check-in I grabbed a beer from the mini-fridge in my room (anti-Mustachian, I know), stepped out into the hall, flipped off the bottle cap while walking to my friend's room next to mine, took a giant, thirsty sip and spit it out....  It was fucking water!!!  Some previous guest had replaced the BEER with WATER and put the cap back on!!!    It was my first beer in Belgium too.  Fucking with beer that way is beyond immoral!  And who knows how long that water had been in there?  It could've been all brackish and stuff.  So, I turned around, went straight to the hotel desk, and explained (she could tell it wasn't my trick 'cause the bottle was really cold and I'd just arrived less than a minute ago).  The clerk apologized and sent me two complimentary bottles.  :)

So, it ended well, but if I ever hear of any of you replacing beer with fucking tap water in your hotel room so you don't have to pay the fridge tab, I'll break yer arms.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 12:49:21 PM by Kaspian »

forummm

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If you want to look at JUST American history, I think our treatment of the American Indians was worse than our treatment of African slaves.  Remember the thing about giving the Indians blankets that were infected with smallpox?  I'd say handing over an item that YOU KNOW will cause another human being to die a painful death is worse than owning a slave and treating him humanely -- though expecting him to work without wages -- for his whole life. 

They were both very wrong. But I don't think that treating slaves "humanely" was the standard. You probably meant a different word. Certainly some were treated better than others. I wouldn't even use the word "humanely" to describe any aspect of slavery.

trailrated

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I travelled 18 hours from Canada to meet my friend in Brussels.  Did a sweaty, exhausted walk from the train station to my hotel.   After check-in I grabbed a beer from the mini-fridge in my room (anti-Mustachian, I know), stepped out into the hall, flipped off the bottle cap while walking to my friend's room next to mine, took a giant, thirsty sip and spit it out....  It was fucking water!!!  Some previous guest had replaced the BEER with WATER and put the cap back on!!!    It was my first beer in Belgium too.  Fucking with beer that way is beyond immoral!  And who knows how long that water had been in there?  It could've been all brackish and stuff.  So, I turned around, went straight to the hotel desk, and explained (she could tell it wasn't my trick 'cause the bottle was really cold and I'd just arrived less than a minute ago).  The clerk apologized and sent me two complimentary bottles.  :)

So, it ended well, but if I ever hear of any of you replacing beer with fucking tap water in your hotel room so you don't have to pay the fridge tab, I'll break yer arms.

That is one of the most hilarious, fucked up, tragic experiences I have ever heard. I wish we could hunt that mofo down and ask them what the fuck is wrong with them?!?!?!?

2lazy2retire

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I hear there are places where people are forced to sit for up to 50 hours a week in confined spaces

forummm

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I hear there are places where people are forced to sit for up to 50 hours a week in confined spaces

Occasionally they herd these people into other confined spaces and perform various forms of torture on them, sometimes in excess of 60 minutes.

forummm

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I hear there are places where people are forced to sit for up to 50 hours a week in confined spaces

Occasionally they herd these people into other confined spaces and perform various forms of torture on them, sometimes in excess of 60 minutes.
Sometimes without coffee or donuts - Oh the Inhumanity!!!

Actually I thought this thread was suppose to be about things you personally witness (or knew of) that were immoral for money (like Kaspians beer-turned-to-water) not the historic evil deeds. But fun to read anyways.

I have personally witnessed these torture sessions. Even been repeatedly victimized by them. I have PTSD.

forummm

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I hear there are places where people are forced to sit for up to 50 hours a week in confined spaces

Occasionally they herd these people into other confined spaces and perform various forms of torture on them, sometimes in excess of 60 minutes.
Sometimes without coffee or donuts - Oh the Inhumanity!!!

Actually I thought this thread was suppose to be about things you personally witness (or knew of) that were immoral for money (like Kaspians beer-turned-to-water) not the historic evil deeds. But fun to read anyways.

I have personally witnessed these torture sessions. Even been repeatedly victimized by them. I have PTSD.
Does that mean we can expect you to go all Rambo when we show you a Dilbert Cartoon :-)!

http://onlinemoviequotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/rambo-first-blood-movie-quote-survive-war.jpg

Norrie

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My first job with my bachelor's degree was working at a non-profit HIV/AIDS organization. It was a fairly small place, but we had great community support in terms of tons and tons of donations to our food pantry and clothing/household items pantry.

The director of the agency and my immediate supervisors did a fair amount of their grocery shopping in our food pantry, and took many, many items (the biggest I remember being 5 king-sized down comforters each, all donated brand new from a major retailer) that were intended for our clients. Many of our clients were indigent, or lived with very little, so a down comforter could have meant a great deal to some of them. Unfortunately, they never had that opportunity.

There was a lot more hokey pokey going on in that place, but thankfully I was able to move on quickly once I figured it out. It was a great lesson for me in understanding that non-profits aren't all sunshine and roses, and to be really careful about the environments in which I work.

Annamal

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My first job with my bachelor's degree was working at a non-profit HIV/AIDS organization. It was a fairly small place, but we had great community support in terms of tons and tons of donations to our food pantry and clothing/household items pantry.

The director of the agency and my immediate supervisors did a fair amount of their grocery shopping in our food pantry, and took many, many items (the biggest I remember being 5 king-sized down comforters each, all donated brand new from a major retailer) that were intended for our clients. Many of our clients were indigent, or lived with very little, so a down comforter could have meant a great deal to some of them. Unfortunately, they never had that opportunity.

There was a lot more hokey pokey going on in that place, but thankfully I was able to move on quickly once I figured it out. It was a great lesson for me in understanding that non-profits aren't all sunshine and roses, and to be really careful about the environments in which I work.

Wow that's really terrible

cautiouspessimist

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My first job with my bachelor's degree was working at a non-profit HIV/AIDS organization. It was a fairly small place, but we had great community support in terms of tons and tons of donations to our food pantry and clothing/household items pantry.

The director of the agency and my immediate supervisors did a fair amount of their grocery shopping in our food pantry, and took many, many items (the biggest I remember being 5 king-sized down comforters each, all donated brand new from a major retailer) that were intended for our clients. Many of our clients were indigent, or lived with very little, so a down comforter could have meant a great deal to some of them. Unfortunately, they never had that opportunity.

There was a lot more hokey pokey going on in that place, but thankfully I was able to move on quickly once I figured it out. It was a great lesson for me in understanding that non-profits aren't all sunshine and roses, and to be really careful about the environments in which I work.

Wow that's really terrible

Yeah, this thread is making me sad.

forummm

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The "financial advisors" that prey on the ignorant and take half their sustainable withdrawal rate in fees in exchange for doing nothing of value. And then creating more fear in the client whenever the client tries to move to a lower cost investment. Many are literally taking around half of a retiree's income from savings, in addition to extracting fees during their working life as well.

forummm

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We're pretty used to this, but politicians that lie and corrupt public debate on important issues for their own political benefit. It's amazing all the money and other benefits that they take out of hundreds of millions of people's pockets by pursuing policies intended to enrich their political benefactors, or accomplish their ideological agenda, at the expense of the populace.

There is plenty of area for honest and legitimate debate over issues of disagreement. But the cynical politics that has infected our system is really hurting the country.

DoubleDown

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I'm conflicted over people getting a "good deal" sometimes. For example, I have a friend who knows a lot about classic cars, especially old Mustangs. In the past he has purchased cars from people who don't know their real worth. For example, I recall him once celebrating about buying a vintage Mustang from a proverbial elderly widow for just a few thousand dollars, when it was worth about 10x that amount. He had seen the car sitting in the driveway, knocked on the door and asked about it. He offered her the lowball amount and she accepted. Should he be praised for his drive, knowledge, and acumen? Or despised for taking advantage of an old lady who doesn't know its real value? What if he got it for half its value, then would it be okay? 80%? 90% What if the seller is not an elderly widow but just a random, middle aged guy like me? Should that matter?

OlyFish

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Doctors/ naturopaths/ chiropractors/ other medical providers who do procedures that have no scientific basis of proof, for a large amount of cash. This includes compounding random meds together into a cream and charging a shit-ton of money for them, or performing procedures that they can bill or charge for that are either unnecessary or just useless. (like using a machine to take a thermal image of someone's skin.  you can feel if someone's skin is hot with your hand, but you can't charge $500 for that).


AlanStache

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I'm conflicted over people getting a "good deal" sometimes. For example, I have a friend who knows a lot about classic cars, especially old Mustangs. In the past he has purchased cars from people who don't know their real worth. For example, I recall him once celebrating about buying a vintage Mustang from a proverbial elderly widow for just a few thousand dollars, when it was worth about 10x that amount. He had seen the car sitting in the driveway, knocked on the door and asked about it. He offered her the lowball amount and she accepted. Should he be praised for his drive, knowledge, and acumen? Or despised for taking advantage of an old lady who doesn't know its real value? What if he got it for half its value, then would it be okay? 80%? 90% What if the seller is not an elderly widow but just a random, middle aged guy like me? Should that matter?

Well if that guy is paying a financial adviser to pick loaded mutual funds then the universe has evened out some.


forummm

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Doctors/ naturopaths/ chiropractors/ other medical providers who do procedures that have no scientific basis of proof, for a large amount of cash. This includes compounding random meds together into a cream and charging a shit-ton of money for them, or performing procedures that they can bill or charge for that are either unnecessary or just useless. (like using a machine to take a thermal image of someone's skin.  you can feel if someone's skin is hot with your hand, but you can't charge $500 for that).

When I had some health problems in the past, a chiropractor friend of my mom's "tested" me for dietary deficiencies. He did this by having me lie down and then pushed on my arms and legs firmly (making them move easily). Then he would bring sealed bottles of different supplements next to my body and with some he would push like he did at first. And with others he would pretend like he was pushing, but my limbs would move less distance. So he said at the end that I was deficient in the supplements where he pushed less hard. By bringing them into my energy field (or something) my body was greatly strengthened and that's why he couldn't move my limbs as easily. And this happened while I was a minor and my parents were unemployed.

And of course he was a Christian and played that angle to get Christian patients who would take things on faith without asking questions.

MLKnits

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Doctors/ naturopaths/ chiropractors/ other medical providers who do procedures that have no scientific basis of proof, for a large amount of cash. This includes compounding random meds together into a cream and charging a shit-ton of money for them, or performing procedures that they can bill or charge for that are either unnecessary or just useless. (like using a machine to take a thermal image of someone's skin.  you can feel if someone's skin is hot with your hand, but you can't charge $500 for that).

YES, this. Homeopathy in particular, not in the way it's sometimes used to describe all "natural medicine" (there's nothing wrong with drinking willow bark tea instead of taking an aspirin; it's the same chemical) but in the actual "water has memory / the less of the active substance there is, the better it works!" complete con-artist sense.

Many homeopathic remedies are so (intentionally!) diluted that a drop of active ingredient in the OCEAN couldn't create the dilution they're claiming--so it's water. It's just water.

(Also, if water has memory, why doesn't it remember all the excrement that's been in it?--stole that from Penn Gillette)

Selling water-and-sugar pills to sick people or to people afraid of becoming sick is about as evil as I can think of. I suspect most of the people who do it are in deep denial about its complete ridiculousness, though--no one's the villain in their own story.

BlueHouse

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Definitely not he worst, but I don't like it when people extort small businesses by threatening to give them a bad review on yelp unless hey give them some absurd discount (after services have been rendered).

onehair

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My uncle threatening to commit suicide if my grandmother didn't give him money for his expenses.  He was playing on her guilt about not accepting him coming out right away plus a cousin had recently done so.


rocketpj

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Well, I think the obvious one would be 'use an unrelated terrorist assault  to justify the massive invasion and occupation of an oil rich country, to nobody's benefit but a few oil companies, an alternative gang of apparent thugs, and some very well connected contractor corporations.'  Somehow it's made even more immoral by the fact that most of the key decision makers were already stupendously wealthy.

But leaving that aside, on a personal level I saw a relative go into a frenzy of outrage that she might not get her 'fair share' of an inheritance from her still healthy and living grandmother because she didn't yet have kids.  Said elder is still alive, happy and kicking now, 15 years after her relative began scrapping over her bones. 

I find the apparent interest of some people in counting their inheritance and/or looking forward to it very distasteful.  I have friends who have lost their parents and consequently have more money than me, and it's the last thing I would want.  I hope to attend my parent's 100th birthday parties (and be fit and healthy myself when I do). Way more important than a nicer house or FIRE a bit earlier.

Bumbling Bee

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I'm not saying that this is as horrible as a a lot of things people have already mentioned, but I thought it was pretty skeezy when an tax professor mentioned it:

Congregant at a church told the pastor, "Hey, dealing with all the cash from the collection plates is a hassle. Why don't I just take the cash every week, which I can use in my small business, and write the church a check for the amount? A lot less hassle for everyone involved!" And then took the charitable deduction for everyone else's offering.

And this (and other cases like it) is apparently why you now need to get a statement from the church/charity/nonprofit for IRS purposes.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!