Author Topic: The most immoral thing you have seen/heard someone do to get/make money.  (Read 49293 times)

trailrated

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I heard about this back in college. A few guys were around for the summer and got a stripper from craigslist for one of their birthdays. Ended up being more than a stripper, and one of the guys took the money they paid her out of her purse while she was doing something in another room with one of the other guys there.

One of the most fucked up things I have ever heard.

forummm

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Pretty much any murder for money is pretty immoral. I've heard about a lot of those. Some people murdered millions pretty viciously for money/power. This is going to be a long list.

justajane

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I don't know if this qualifies as immoral or just incredibly skeevy, but I was pretty appalled by Trump's phony university that "mentored" businessmen to the tune of up to 35K a piece.

I have a pretty low opinion of for-profit schools in general, but IMO his took the cake.

Thankfully I am not exposed to the lowest forms of money-making like murder for hire or pimping or child exploitation, at least I don't think so.

kathrynd

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Women selling their eggs, and men selling their sperm

Eric

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Oh kathrynd, LOL.

Eric

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I once bought some fake Psilocybin mushrooms.  I thought that was pretty low.

forummm

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Women selling their eggs, and men selling their sperm

Wow. How is that on par with mass murder?

trailrated

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I once bought some fake Psilocybin mushrooms.  I thought that was pretty low.

Sorry but this made me laugh. I am just imagining sitting...waiting....waiting... has it hit you yet? How long till you realized the guy was an asshole?

NorCal

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In Iraq, it was fairly common for our local business vendors (we bought locally when possible) to be alive at the beginning of an RFP process and not alive at the end of it.

There wasn't much we could do about this.  But the surviving vendors were very well paid and very well armed.

Annamal

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I tend to think the worst things are the ones that happen very far away from the consequences.

For example not implementing proper safety measures at a workplace costs people their health and lives but it's at such a remove and the people who sign off on the cost cutting will never be held responsible or have to face down the relatives of the people they have killed.


sol

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.

Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.

But you know, I guess sperm/egg donation to infertile couples is pretty bad too?

Annamal

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.

Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.

But you know, I guess sperm/egg donation to infertile couples is pretty bad too?

Wow!

agreed 100%

southern granny

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Our church has a soup kitchen and food pantry.  One of the regulars wanted to become a volunteer, so he was.  Eventually found out he was stealing everything he could get his hands on.  Whole cans of coffee, whole hams, etc...   How low is that to steal from a church that was helping you.

Eric

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I once bought some fake Psilocybin mushrooms.  I thought that was pretty low.

Sorry but this made me laugh. I am just imagining sitting...waiting....waiting... has it hit you yet? How long till you realized the guy was an asshole?

It's cool, I can laugh about it now too.  After about an hour, we were wondering why it was taking so long, and by a half hour later we accepted our fate and were pretty pissed off.  For a while, I kept an eye out for the guy every time I went to a show or festival.  But after never finding him again, the memory has faded, and I doubt I'd be able to place him today.  Too bad.  He could've used a black eye.  Especially one 6 months or a year later out of the blue.

mm1970

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.

Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.

But you know, I guess sperm/egg donation to infertile couples is pretty bad too?
I know, right?  Wait, I've got a bunch of friends who are parents thanks to sperm and egg donation.  Some single, some gay, some hetero...

Josiecat

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I once had a guy I was dating tell me him and his buddies would 'dine and dash' when they were in college.  He laughed about it as he told me the stories.

I thought this was awful.  It really changed my opinion of him and I soon broke up with him.

forummm

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.

Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.

But you know, I guess sperm/egg donation to infertile couples is pretty bad too?
I may be wrong but I thought that the poster was stating that she/he felt that the sale of eggs and sperm was the problem not the donation of them.

I think donation and sale are used pretty interchangeably in that context. Occasionally you do get a non-compensated sperm donor that's a friend. But it's pretty rare to have a non-compensated egg donor.

kathrynd

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.

Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.

But you know, I guess sperm/egg donation to infertile couples is pretty bad too?
I may be wrong but I thought that the poster was stating that she/he felt that the sale of eggs and sperm was the problem not the donation of them.

yes, you are correct.

paddedhat

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I heard about this back in college. A few guys were around for the summer and got a stripper from craigslist for one of their birthdays. Ended up being more than a stripper, and one of the guys took the money they paid her out of her purse while she was doing something in another room with one of the other guys there.

One of the most fucked up things I have ever heard.

When I was in college, I drove a delivery van for a newspaper co. We spent lots of time in really rough 'hoods, dropping papers off, in the middle of the night. At the end of one shift, as the sun was rising, another young driver was bragging about how he shagged a hooker, and tossed her out of his delivery van when he was done, without exchanging payment for services.  The next night, the hooker's employer beat the driver so bad that he ended up in the ER, about 7/8ths dead, and unemployed.   I would imagine that emptying a stripper's purse could result in the same unhappy ending.

trailrated

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I heard about this back in college. A few guys were around for the summer and got a stripper from craigslist for one of their birthdays. Ended up being more than a stripper, and one of the guys took the money they paid her out of her purse while she was doing something in another room with one of the other guys there.

One of the most fucked up things I have ever heard.

When I was in college, I drove a delivery van for a newspaper co. We spent lots of time in really rough 'hoods, dropping papers off, in the middle of the night. At the end of one shift, as the sun was rising, another young driver was bragging about how he shagged a hooker, and tossed her out of his delivery van when he was done, without exchanging payment for services.  The next night, the hooker's employer beat the driver so bad that he ended up in the ER, about 7/8ths dead, and unemployed.   I would imagine that emptying a stripper's purse could result in the same unhappy ending.
Fortunately for them that did not happen, but I think it would have been more than justified.

paddedhat

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I tend to think the worst things are the ones that happen very far away from the consequences.

For example not implementing proper safety measures at a workplace costs people their health and lives but it's at such a remove and the people who sign off on the cost cutting will never be held responsible or have to face down the relatives of the people they have killed.

Take a minute to Google how the Koch Brothers murdered two teens, who burned to death in the daddy's truck, as dad watched, because it was too costly to legitimately maintain and repair a gas pipeline they owned. Hopefully there is a special place in hell for these two guys, and they can't get there fast enough.

Frankies Girl

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.

Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.

But you know, I guess sperm/egg donation to infertile couples is pretty bad too?
I may be wrong but I thought that the poster was stating that she/he felt that the sale of eggs and sperm was the problem not the donation of them.

yes, you are correct.

Because the rigorous testing procedures, 2+ months of daily hormone shots, oral meds, constant checkups (every other day up until the last two weeks and then daily), and then a surgical procedure to retrieve the eggs, several weeks of discomfort/pain/bloating, to say nothing of the crazy hormone induced crying/screaming fits that can happen throughout the entire process is worth being compensated for?

Granted, guys have it much easier on the collection process... but any case of sperm/egg donation, they absolutely should be compensated for something.

If there wasn't a financial incentive in doing so, the young people that are the most wanted in terms of egg and sperm quality would most likely never donate in the quantities that are needed for infertiles. And infertiles already got the shit end of the stick anyway, so why make it even harder on them? Everybody wins this way.


 

forummm

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I heard about this back in college. A few guys were around for the summer and got a stripper from craigslist for one of their birthdays. Ended up being more than a stripper, and one of the guys took the money they paid her out of her purse while she was doing something in another room with one of the other guys there.

One of the most fucked up things I have ever heard.

When I was in college, I drove a delivery van for a newspaper co. We spent lots of time in really rough 'hoods, dropping papers off, in the middle of the night. At the end of one shift, as the sun was rising, another young driver was bragging about how he shagged a hooker, and tossed her out of his delivery van when he was done, without exchanging payment for services.  The next night, the hooker's employer beat the driver so bad that he ended up in the ER, about 7/8ths dead, and unemployed.   I would imagine that emptying a stripper's purse could result in the same unhappy ending.

Prostitution should be legal in part so that people aren't put in these dangerous situations or being prone to theft. Also for public health reasons.

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I don't think there's a simple answer to the prostitution question.   A lot of prostitutes are just sex slaves for their pimps.   How is legalization going to change this?

Kris

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I don't think there's a simple answer to the prostitution question.   A lot of prostitutes are just sex slaves for their pimps.   How is legalization going to change this?

Well, they could set up their own business and advertise. If it was legal, it would be less dangerous, and likely prostitutes would be able to come up with new models where they would be able to ensure safety from violence or disease.  No pimps needed.

Many would argue that small businesses do better/thrive more when government stands back and gives them room to succeed.  Generally speaking, I find that argument a bit specious, but in this case I can see their point.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 09:03:50 PM by Kris »

bdonney

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Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.
While true, and that's what I think when I see the confederate flag, many people that brandish that shit will say it's about state rights and small government and nothing about slavery. Some of them will argue that slavery had nothing to do with the civil war. Kind of sad.

sol

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many people that brandish that shit will say it's about state rights and small government and nothing about slavery. Some of them will argue that slavery had nothing to do with the civil war. Kind of sad.

Well they're sort of right. It was totally about small government and states rights, specifically their right to keep slaves when the big bad federal government said they couldn't do that anymore because people were, you know, people.  Not things.

Mesmoiselle

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My mother worked a full time job doing kiosk setups and such. The company decided that people were getting too much overtime, and clamped down to about 20 hours per worker or something. My mother then applied and was granted something like team leader status. Then, using her children's social security numbers, did all of the 40+ hours of work under our names as well as her own, without asking our permission.

She would always help herself to a 24 pack of soda, the ones that sit outside the gas station in piles, then go inside to get a snack, and not pay for the soda. She did this for years, she probably still does.

She literally tried to blackmail me for money using an absurd story I didn't believe anyway. But because I wanted access to my younger sisters, I paid her the money anyway, and viewed it as a fee to see my siblings.

Mesmoiselle

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Oh yeah. Recently, my boyfriend's stepmother opened his bank statement. When she saw th e bank balance, she realized that he'd "been taking advantage of them", took his card and spent $1600. When confronted, she literally said she was entitled to the money. Only under the pressure of her husband did he get any of it back. And her only apology was about upsetting my boyfriend, with no verbal recognition that what she'd done was truly wrong.

Annamal

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I don't think there's a simple answer to the prostitution question.   A lot of prostitutes are just sex slaves for their pimps.   How is legalization going to change this?

Prostitution is legal in New Zealand and while it's definitely not perfect as a system,  it is now at the point where a few years ago a prostitute successfully  got her ex-boss fined for sexual harassment in the workplace(it wasn't a frivolous case, the dude was genuinely trying to intimidate his employees)

I believe it has also reduced the number of negative interactions between prostitutes and police (which helps when it comes to reporting assaults etc)

forummm

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Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.
While true, and that's what I think when I see the confederate flag, many people that brandish that shit will say it's about state rights and small government and nothing about slavery. Some of them will argue that slavery had nothing to do with the civil war. Kind of sad.

I often wonder if they have actually talked themselves into believing this.

Did you know that some of the rebirth of the Confederate Flag movements happened during the Civil Rights Movement? Alabama started flying the Confederate Flag above its capitol in 1963. Yes, 1963, and not sometime in the 1880s. I'm sure it was purely coincidence and had nothing to do with racial stuff.

forummm

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I don't think there's a simple answer to the prostitution question.   A lot of prostitutes are just sex slaves for their pimps.   How is legalization going to change this?

Why does a prostitute need a pimp? Protection. Why can't they get rid of a bad pimp? Lack of protection.

You can't get legitimate law enforcement to come and help you out with your business problems if your business is not legal.

If prostitution were legal, no prostitute would need a pimp. A brothel might hire some private security to be on the premises. But they would just need to call the cops to enforce order.

It would also be safer because prostitutes could work in brothels instead of hanging out on the streets, getting in cars with strangers, being vulnerable, etc.

Cougar

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 i have always kicked myself for not getting on the legalized pot selling train when it first appeared. i think i could've made a lot of money selling pot if i got in at the beginning.

i realize to some here that's not immoral, but i know according to documented cases and medical reports and studies that pot is very bad for you; so it would be immoral for me to sell it knowing contributing to the destruction of people's bodyies and minds.

DirtDiva

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This pales in comparison to slavery and despotism, but...

I know of a woman who basically makes a living running booster club concessions stands.  She skims off cash and product until the organization notices and takes measures to keep track of the cash flow, then moves on to the next unsuspecting organization before anything can be proved.  She may have her 2 teenage daughters and her husband in on the game.

partgypsy

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.

Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.

But you know, I guess sperm/egg donation to infertile couples is pretty bad too?

Wow!

agreed 100%

yeah let's keep things in perspective here. I don't see donating eggs and sperm as immoral at all.

partgypsy

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Some things off the top of my head. Dad worked in the 60's in Chicago in restaurants, when mafia was active. Some of the protection/extortion things they did to small businesses were pretty bad. But he was being paid so didn't hear or see anything. It is true about what they say about the Mafia supporting Sinatra's career. He owed them, so would do packed shows for Mafia owning businesses.

Dad knew businessmen who would buy low income rental properties in good areas, promise that he would keep them low rent, and then through various levels of illegality evict everyone, tear it down and build luxury buildings. 

Dad was involved in group, that was creating new strip mall, he invested a large sum of money, they didn't return calls nor build the mall then declared bankruptcy. He might not have been the only person taken by the group.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 08:31:54 AM by partgypsy »

forummm

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 i have always kicked myself for not getting on the legalized pot selling train when it first appeared. i think i could've made a lot of money selling pot if i got in at the beginning.

i realize to some here that's not immoral, but i know according to documented cases and medical reports and studies that pot is very bad for you; so it would be immoral for me to sell it knowing contributing to the destruction of people's bodyies and minds.

Yes, pot does some harm. It is less harmful under typical use than tobacco and alcohol under typical use. I think it's also less harmful than the way that sugar is typically used. I think that all of these substances (except tobacco) have beneficial uses and are also unnecessary. But one could also say it's immoral to deny people enjoyment of something. Discourage, even strongly, inappropriate use. Or even prohibit use that may harm others. But there is a balance to be had there.

nereo

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.

Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.

But you know, I guess sperm/egg donation to infertile couples is pretty bad too?
Wow!

agreed 100%
yeah let's keep things in perspective here. I don't see donating eggs and sperm as immoral at all.
Slavery was (and still is in many parts of the world) one of the most horrific, immoral things a human can to do another human. As a native Virginian I'm ashamed and embarrassed by that portion of my state's past.  But let's not fall victim to the white-washing of history by implying the only immorality occurred in the US South.  Slavery occurred in some form in all of the colonies and for most into statehood.  Maryland didn't end slavery until 1864 (the year before the civil war/war between the states). West Virginia split from Virginia in 1863 as a slave-free state but allowed current 'owners' to keep their existing slaves.  New York didn't start banning slavery until 1799, but put into place such gradual grandfathering laws that you could legally own a slave until well into the 1840s. 

Then there was the whole supply of the slave trade.  It's absolutely true that most of the slaves were sold to plantations in the Caribbean and the US South, but many of the most notorious slave ships were built and owned by New England sea merchants (or retrofitted and harbored there).  Even after the supposed US slave-ship ban in 1808 shipyards in the north continued to build ships who's sole purpose was to transport the maximum amount of human cargo while evading US and British naval patrols.  Finally, there was the active and legal extradition of escaped slaves back to their 'owners' right up until the start of the war.  Even though slavery had been abolished in many states by the 1860s, the courts, the law and private bounty hunters still shipped slaves back - in part because they didn't want to disrupt the trade of cheap food and textiles coming from the south.

It was horrible, and I blame the south for the lion's share of the atrocities committed against other humans.  But there is too much blood on everyone's hands, from simple complicity to active participation.  Except maybe from Rhode Island. Rhode Islanders, you did a pretty darn good job.

Duchess of Stratosphear

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This guy takes the cake for me (along with for profit detention centers): http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


forummm

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This guy takes the cake for me (along with for profit detention centers): http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

I hate that guy. All those ruined lives.

Lyssa

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I don't think there's a simple answer to the prostitution question.   A lot of prostitutes are just sex slaves for their pimps.   How is legalization going to change this?

It does not. At least not if not combined with strict enforcement of some ground rules. What we have more than ten years after complete legalization (prostitution as such was never illegal but it took place in a greyish legal area that allowed for frequent raids of brothels and prosecution of pimps for 'facilitating prostitution', even if no witnesses were willing to testify) is a few elite prostitutes doing better tben before and seeking publicity and the majority of dirt poor Eastern European or African prostitutes worse of than ever, with lower prices, caught in a triangle between their own status as 'entrepreneurs', semi legitimate brothel owners and the old school pimps who drive their 'free entrepreneurs' to the legitimate brothel each day and - oh so kindly - pick them up after work. Police has to watch because the ever-ready charge of 'facilitating prostitution' is no longer available.

partgypsy

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The entire economic structure of the American south prior to the civil war was predicated on the systemic kidnapping, sale, export, cultural suppression, forced labor, rape, and human bondage of people with dark skin by people with light skin.

Today some of those light skinned people are still trying to fly the symbolic flag of their forefather's sins in proud memory of those bygone times, as if they romanticized that particular brand of evil.

But you know, I guess sperm/egg donation to infertile couples is pretty bad too?
Wow!

agreed 100%
yeah let's keep things in perspective here. I don't see donating eggs and sperm as immoral at all.
Slavery was (and still is in many parts of the world) one of the most horrific, immoral things a human can to do another human. As a native Virginian I'm ashamed and embarrassed by that portion of my state's past.  But let's not fall victim to the white-washing of history by implying the only immorality occurred in the US South.  Slavery occurred in some form in all of the colonies and for most into statehood.  Maryland didn't end slavery until 1864 (the year before the civil war/war between the states). West Virginia split from Virginia in 1863 as a slave-free state but allowed current 'owners' to keep their existing slaves.  New York didn't start banning slavery until 1799, but put into place such gradual grandfathering laws that you could legally own a slave until well into the 1840s. 

Then there was the whole supply of the slave trade.  It's absolutely true that most of the slaves were sold to plantations in the Caribbean and the US South, but many of the most notorious slave ships were built and owned by New England sea merchants (or retrofitted and harbored there).  Even after the supposed US slave-ship ban in 1808 shipyards in the north continued to build ships who's sole purpose was to transport the maximum amount of human cargo while evading US and British naval patrols.  Finally, there was the active and legal extradition of escaped slaves back to their 'owners' right up until the start of the war.  Even though slavery had been abolished in many states by the 1860s, the courts, the law and private bounty hunters still shipped slaves back - in part because they didn't want to disrupt the trade of cheap food and textiles coming from the south.

It was horrible, and I blame the south for the lion's share of the atrocities committed against other humans.  But there is too much blood on everyone's hands, from simple complicity to active participation.  Except maybe from Rhode Island. Rhode Islanders, you did a pretty darn good job.
Some of this stuff is really fascinating
http://www.lib.niu.edu/2003/ih090315.html
My earliest ancestors came to the US in the 1800's after slavery was abolished, but the more I learn about US history, the more I see that oppression of "others" is a near universal traits in history. 

Lyssa

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Worst thing I heard from a fellow law student and from a friend about a family member is coldcalling senior citizens to sell them shit they neither need nor can afford. I get that not everybody can get their dream job and still needs to make money but one needs to have some standards... I could never befriend and trust somebody who does this for a living.

nereo

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Some of this stuff is really fascinating
http://www.lib.niu.edu/2003/ih090315.html
My earliest ancestors came to the US in the 1800's after slavery was abolished, but the more I learn about US history, the more I see that oppression of "others" is a near universal traits in history.
I would say that oppression of "others" is a characteristic that's present in most (if not all) country's histories.  For example, since moving to Canada I've learned a lot more about their treatment (in living memory, no less) of native/first nation individuals.  There's a parallel history of treatment of the native Mayans in Mexico. the list goes on.

we're just a violent, oppressive species...

GetItRight

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I believe theft with the threat of violence would have to be the most immoral way to get money. The government is the biggest perpetrator of this type of immoral method of getting money.

Second I suppose would have to be fraud.

Erica/NWEdible

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    • Northwest Edible Life - life on garden time
I believe theft with the threat of violence would have to be the most immoral way to get money. The government is the biggest perpetrator of this type of immoral method of getting money.

Second I suppose would have to be fraud.
TSP listener?

GetItRight

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I believe theft with the threat of violence would have to be the most immoral way to get money. The government is the biggest perpetrator of this type of immoral method of getting money.

Second I suppose would have to be fraud.
TSP listener?

What is TSP? I doubt I am.

sol

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  • Age: 47
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
TSP listener?

You have to be careful about how you use that acronym around here.  This is ostensibly a retirement forum, after all, and the TSP is the federal equivalent of a 401k plan, not a nutty podcast.

Erica/NWEdible

  • Pencil Stache
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  • Posts: 881
    • Northwest Edible Life - life on garden time
I believe theft with the threat of violence would have to be the most immoral way to get money. The government is the biggest perpetrator of this type of immoral method of getting money.

Second I suppose would have to be fraud.
TSP listener?

What is TSP? I doubt I am.
The Survival Podcast. Jack Spirko, the host, consistently refers to taxation as "theft with the threat of violence at the point of a gun." Very libertarian/anarcho leaning politics, with a ton of really great homesteading/gardening information. I like the show - don't always agree with the host, but it's always entertaining and more often than not I learn something.

GetItRight

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Thanks. Never heard of it. Doesn't sound like my type of podcast. While I like to be reasonably prepared for emergencies I believe most survivalist types would laugh at me. The host is absolutely correct about taxation being theft at gunpoint. That's a simple fact, and if you doubt it's true just stop paying taxes. It may take a while but eventually men with guns will come to lock you in a cage and take your property, if you resist you will be killed.