Author Topic: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen  (Read 5930 times)

Valhalla

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the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« on: April 05, 2017, 01:36:07 AM »
I love Mr. Money Mustache, but I think MMM will never win in the general public.  Most of the people are just too stupid, to follow MMM for their own good.  I've seen some horrendous examples of reverse-Badassity that just blows my mind.

Here is a recent example:  A friend of a friend is into K-pop (Korean pop) - let's call him Bob.  Bob loves most of the bands, bands like BTS, BAP, etc. (I'm not Korean, so I know very little about this).  This friend makes around $70k per year, decided they wanted to see some K-pop concerts in the US.  The face value of the tickets, including front-row, are around $200 per seat, pretty steep.  However, scalpers / brokers already bought up the best tickets during the first few minutes of the sale.  Ordinary people have zero chance to fight professional brokers who use a myriad of techniques to get those seats.

So this person decides to look on Stubhub for seats.  Bob finds a seat near the front for $1,000, in a venue out of town, halfway across the country. Bob decides he has to have it, and buys the ticket for $1k, books travel (air, hotel, etc) for another $1k, just to see this 2 hour concert.

Total cost to Bob is $2k, or 2.8% of his annual salary, before taxes.  Bob makes $35 per hour, this means the concert will take 57 hours of Bob's work to save $2k (before taxes), or around 75 hours after taxes.   In other words, to enjoy a 2 hour concert, Bob has to work 60 - 75 hours to save for it.

This is just insane.  Call me crazy or lazy, but I'd rather just do nothing for 60-75 hours, rather than attend a 2 hour concert.  Or maybe get super high on drugs (being sarcastic here but not really - wouldn't getting high for hours / days on end be better than blowing it stupidly on a 2 hour concert? - I don't do drugs btw), or go buy a new washer / dryer, or buy a new fridge, or buy a 3 week cruise, or a home entertainment set, or 2 years of gas, or a night with a high end escort, etc.  You get the idea.  In no way I can imagine that a 2 hour concert is worth this amount of money.

Now multiply Bob by thousands of people, because these K-pop concerts are generally sold out, and a lot of people over-pay for the concerts by buying the tickets from brokers / scalpers.  It boggles the mind what kind of money is being spent.  Worst of all, the money is not even going to the bands these people enjoy...it mostly goes to the middle man, the broker / scalper.

I dropped a friend off at a K-pop concert recently.  The people attending were mostly younger people, the "hip" generation who love these bands. So the people who overpay for these events are not even wealth, rich people who don't even blink an eye at spending the crazy money for these tickets.   And, at the concert venues, they are buying over-priced shirts, stupid glow-wands at $60 each... I really think those people are insane.

Coming back full circle, these are some of the worst value propositions for your money I can think of.  For $2k, I can imagine a hell of a better time than standing in a crowd watching a band perform for a couple of hours.  Logic it does not make.

I have a reservoir full of anti-Badassity stories like this.  It boggles my mind the kind of stupid shit people do to blow money on.  It's like they don't value their own time or money.  This really convinces me that most people are dumb as rocks.  It's astounding that people actually resonate with MMM and have some sanity in this world.  I truly think we are the exception, not the rule.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 01:41:37 AM by Valhalla »

Khan

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 01:52:26 AM »
Quote
Call me crazy or lazy, but I'd rather just do nothing for 60-75 hours, rather than attend a 2 hour concert.

You're not crazy. He could download every concert video of every kpop and jpop group he could ever want on torrent sites, take a week off, and watch it to his heart's content. 2k for only 2 effective hours of entertainment, +1 hour of crowd bullshit minimum(plus the TSA bullshit to fly to and from the city) before and afterwards is absolutely not worth it, ever.

I mean, maybe if it was a once in a lifetime thing, like the Tragically Hip's farewell tour, but just a rando concert? He could, and should, book a flight to Korea, or somewhere in the asian countries and spend some time over there, see a concert or twenty over there, rather than this craziness.

Valhalla

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 02:08:55 AM »
Quote
Call me crazy or lazy, but I'd rather just do nothing for 60-75 hours, rather than attend a 2 hour concert.

You're not crazy. He could download every concert video of every kpop and jpop group he could ever want on torrent sites, take a week off, and watch it to his heart's content. 2k for only 2 effective hours of entertainment, +1 hour of crowd bullshit minimum(plus the TSA bullshit to fly to and from the city) before and afterwards is absolutely not worth it, ever.

I mean, maybe if it was a once in a lifetime thing, like the Tragically Hip's farewell tour, but just a rando concert? He could, and should, book a flight to Korea, or somewhere in the asian countries and spend some time over there, see a concert or twenty over there, rather than this craziness.
This is so spot on it's crazy... I still can't fathom what kind of mental disease it takes for Bob to make this kind of decision.  What's sad is this is so pervasive. You see people paying outrageous sums of money for sporting events, concerts, and other kinds of popular shows.  I could barely be persuaded to pay face value of tickets to go, to put up with the madness, never mind paying many times over the face value of a ticket.

I just don't know... Bob will be working for the rest of life making stupid financial decisions like this.  Me... I could tell my boss I'm quitting today, and not bat an eyelash at the loss of future income.  I find my personal financial situation so much more satisfying than Bob, and all it took was not to fuck up making stupid decisions like this.

2Cent

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 02:17:06 AM »
I see this all the time. These people don't think about value for money. They think: I see this for sale. I want it. Can I buy it? They are the reason advertisement works so well. Money is like a hot stone in their hands. As soon as they have it, they feel like spending it.

My worst example is someone with almost no income using a one time small windfall to buy the latest smartphone. "Because I want to feel rich too sometimes"

Khan

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 02:21:38 AM »
Try and talk to him about efficiency? What's more efficient and a greater use of the dollars, spending 2k on a single concert in a city he probably doesn't give two shits about, or spending 2k on a weekend(maybe even a week) in South Korea itself, and probably seeing a couple concerts?

If he's still on the young side or isn't entirely wasteful, maybe mention hostels.

South Korea was a tad on the cheaper side, especially compared to Japan from my memory. Pretty sure that disparity becomes greater as soon as you step outside of Seoul/Busan.

tnevy4

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 03:25:43 AM »
Try and talk to him about efficiency? What's more efficient and a greater use of the dollars, spending 2k on a single concert in a city he probably doesn't give two shits about, or spending 2k on a weekend(maybe even a week) in South Korea itself, and probably seeing a couple concerts?

If he's still on the young side or isn't entirely wasteful, maybe mention hostels.

South Korea was a tad on the cheaper side, especially compared to Japan from my memory. Pretty sure that disparity becomes greater as soon as you step outside of Seoul/Busan.

Busan was pretty cheap especially the train compared to Japan, but I found it much harder to navigate. I ended up so far away from where I wanted to be in Korea. People were making kimchi on the sidewalk. I also had the most terrifying taxi ride in my life. In regards to the anti-Badassity examples I've seen a few sailors buy cars at shady buy here pay here lots with interest rates nearing 20% on 7000 dollar loans for cars that shouldn't be on the road. (His brakes didn't work except for the emergency brake and the lug nuts were welded on)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 03:34:15 AM by tnevy4 »

MrMathMustache

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2017, 03:56:28 AM »

This is just insane.  Call me crazy or lazy, but I'd rather just do nothing for 60-75 hours, rather than attend a 2 hour concert.  Or maybe get super high on drugs (being sarcastic here but not really - wouldn't getting high for hours / days on end be better than blowing it stupidly on a 2 hour concert? - I don't do drugs btw), or go buy a new washer / dryer, or buy a new fridge, or buy a 3 week cruise, or a home entertainment set, or 2 years of gas, or a night with a high end escort, etc.  You get the idea.  In no way I can imagine that a 2 hour concert is worth this amount of money.


So is your problem really the money being spent, or the fact that it's being used for a concert?  Personally, I rather enjoy spending my leisure money seeing my favorite bands live and would never go on some nonsense cruise, or get a new appliance unless it was a needed replacement.  Different strokes and all.  Of course, my savings rate is MMM-level, so it's not like I'm living paycheck to paycheck or anything.

Mezzie

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2017, 07:17:11 AM »
Live music and theater is one of the greatest pleasures in my life. I've traveled across the country to see bands and shows I like before (of course, I used miles, stayed in hostels, and made an entire vacation of it, but still...). I think whether or not it's worth it depends on how much enjoyment Bob got from the experience. I know every one of my trips was worth much more than I ended up paying.

Watching torrents doesn't compare at all.

I will say, buying scalped tickets sucks on multiple levels.

I do have my limits -- I haven't bought tickets to Hamilton (yet) -- but I do think one of the benefits of being even remotely financially secure is to enjoy this life. I was born into a performing family, so a lot of my idea of fun is watching performances; it's basically bred into me. I also like simple things like having a picnic and gardening; I think it all can balance out.


Laura33

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2017, 07:35:40 AM »
The only real question here is whether Bob values the concert more than the 70 hrs he needs to work to appreciate it, and if he's living beyond his means to finance it.  If he comes back Monday bitching about his job and complaining about how he has no savings and his credit cards are maxed, and he's driving a new jacked-up truck that he traded in his 2-year old-car for even though he was upside down, then yeah, he's a dumb-ass.  And, frankly, I suspect most people who run around and spend their money on All The Things fall into this category.  But if he's decided that he gets so much enjoyment out of K-Pop that he'd rather work for 40 years than cut back to retire earlier, and if he's otherwise living within his means in order to afford these splurges, well, more power to him.

There is a pretty common human mindset that what works for me is "right," and that people who make different choices are wrong or stupid or [insert epithet here].  And beyond that, there is a particular mindset here the certain splurges are ok and others are not.  Tell someone here that your dream is to hike the Appalachian trail and so you need to minimize your expenses to save up to be able to take 6 months off work, and you will get 300 people telling you how awesome you are.  OTOH, tell someone here that your favorite thing in the world is driving cars around the racetrack, and that you're looking at dropping 5% of your savings on a used Porsche to follow your hobby, and you're willing to work two years longer to cover the cost,* and at best many people will roll their eyes at you.  But the things that make me happy likely don't make others happy, and the things that annoy others may not annoy me.  Trying to live someone else's dream would make me completely miserable, because it's not mine.

Personally, I would not be happy living MMM's life.  He takes tremendous pleasure out of doing for himself; me, I grew up poor and had to do for myself out of necessity, not choice, and if I never have to clean my own damn house again for the rest of my life, I will be a very, very happy person.  So my budget includes housecleaners.  I also don't mind my job nearly as much as he did, so it's not really a hardship to work a little longer to be able to afford that in perpetuity -- that tradeoff is 100% worth it to me.  OTOH, we still save about half our salary, cook our own food, and don't buy even a fraction of the crap we could, because spending money on all of that stuff doesn't make me happy.  Yeah, it's not someone else's version of a perfect Mustachian life.  Sosume. 

*Yes, I will admit that this is my dream.  I just haven't been able to bring myself to pull the trigger on the car, because, damn, that's a ridiculous amount of money.

Tl;dr:  To me, paying upwards of $2K to sit through a K-Pop concert would be hell on earth.  But the question is whether it's worth it to Bob, or if he's just unthinkingly throwing money at All The Things.

Chris22

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2017, 08:09:20 AM »
There is a pretty common human mindset that what works for me is "right," and that people who make different choices are wrong or stupid or [insert epithet here].  And beyond that, there is a particular mindset here the certain splurges are ok and others are not.  Tell someone here that your dream is to hike the Appalachian trail and so you need to minimize your expenses to save up to be able to take 6 months off work, and you will get 300 people telling you how awesome you are.  OTOH, tell someone here that your favorite thing in the world is driving cars around the racetrack, and that you're looking at dropping 5% of your savings on a used Porsche to follow your hobby, and you're willing to work two years longer to cover the cost,* and at best many people will roll their eyes at you.  But the things that make me happy likely don't make others happy, and the things that annoy others may not annoy me.  Trying to live someone else's dream would make me completely miserable, because it's not mine.

Yup.  There's definitely a hivemind of what is "acceptable" to enjoy as a hobby and what is not here. 


Want to know my honest opinion?  There is all this talk of "badassity" and stoicness, but then there are tons of threads about people who are looking to quit their job over the tiniest perceived slight, over having to interact with people, over relatively minor issues with management, etc.  That seems like a huge disconnect to me.  "Stoic" is taking a cold shower instead of hot to save a nickel on your electric bill, but quitting your lucrative job because sometimes Sally in accounting makes fun of your brown bag lunch or because Steve in marketing asked you to kick in $5 for someone's birthday gift and that's not in your budget?  Seems like maybe some people need some more stoicness...

TheAnonOne

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2017, 08:14:42 AM »

This is just insane.  Call me crazy or lazy, but I'd rather just do nothing for 60-75 hours, rather than attend a 2 hour concert.  Or maybe get super high on drugs (being sarcastic here but not really - wouldn't getting high for hours / days on end be better than blowing it stupidly on a 2 hour concert? - I don't do drugs btw), or go buy a new washer / dryer, or buy a new fridge, or buy a 3 week cruise, or a home entertainment set, or 2 years of gas, or a night with a high end escort, etc.  You get the idea.  In no way I can imagine that a 2 hour concert is worth this amount of money.


So is your problem really the money being spent, or the fact that it's being used for a concert?  Personally, I rather enjoy spending my leisure money seeing my favorite bands live and would never go on some nonsense cruise, or get a new appliance unless it was a needed replacement.  Different strokes and all.  Of course, my savings rate is MMM-level, so it's not like I'm living paycheck to paycheck or anything.
Yea, WHAT you spend money on is a little inconsequential, though this person isn't maintaining a high savings rate either. He already blew 3% on one singular 2 hour event.

I've been on a week long cruise, flew down to port, did a few fun excursions and our bill was around 900 bucks. So, the value proposition for certain activities is clearly higher.

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Chris22

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2017, 08:19:37 AM »

This is just insane.  Call me crazy or lazy, but I'd rather just do nothing for 60-75 hours, rather than attend a 2 hour concert.  Or maybe get super high on drugs (being sarcastic here but not really - wouldn't getting high for hours / days on end be better than blowing it stupidly on a 2 hour concert? - I don't do drugs btw), or go buy a new washer / dryer, or buy a new fridge, or buy a 3 week cruise, or a home entertainment set, or 2 years of gas, or a night with a high end escort, etc.  You get the idea.  In no way I can imagine that a 2 hour concert is worth this amount of money.


So is your problem really the money being spent, or the fact that it's being used for a concert?  Personally, I rather enjoy spending my leisure money seeing my favorite bands live and would never go on some nonsense cruise, or get a new appliance unless it was a needed replacement.  Different strokes and all.  Of course, my savings rate is MMM-level, so it's not like I'm living paycheck to paycheck or anything.
Yea, WHAT you spend money on is a little inconsequential, though this person isn't maintaining a high savings rate either. He already blew 3% on one singular 2 hour event.

I've been on a week long cruise, flew down to port, did a few fun excursions and our bill was around 900 bucks. So, the value proposition for certain activities is clearly higher.

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I've been on several cruises and frankly I wouldn't pay $9 to go on another one, no matter what the value proposition is.

Laura33

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2017, 08:54:44 AM »
I've been on a week long cruise, flew down to port, did a few fun excursions and our bill was around 900 bucks. So, the value proposition for certain activities is clearly higher for me.

FTFY.

tnevy4

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2017, 08:59:15 AM »
The only real question here is whether Bob values the concert more than the 70 hrs he needs to work to appreciate it, and if he's living beyond his means to finance it.  If he comes back Monday bitching about his job and complaining about how he has no savings and his credit cards are maxed, and he's driving a new jacked-up truck that he traded in his 2-year old-car for even though he was upside down, then yeah, he's a dumb-ass.  And, frankly, I suspect most people who run around and spend their money on All The Things fall into this category.  But if he's decided that he gets so much enjoyment out of K-Pop that he'd rather work for 40 years than cut back to retire earlier, and if he's otherwise living within his means in order to afford these splurges, well, more power to him.

There is a pretty common human mindset that what works for me is "right," and that people who make different choices are wrong or stupid or [insert epithet here].  And beyond that, there is a particular mindset here the certain splurges are ok and others are not.  Tell someone here that your dream is to hike the Appalachian trail and so you need to minimize your expenses to save up to be able to take 6 months off work, and you will get 300 people telling you how awesome you are.  OTOH, tell someone here that your favorite thing in the world is driving cars around the racetrack, and that you're looking at dropping 5% of your savings on a used Porsche to follow your hobby, and you're willing to work two years longer to cover the cost,* and at best many people will roll their eyes at you.  But the things that make me happy likely don't make others happy, and the things that annoy others may not annoy me.  Trying to live someone else's dream would make me completely miserable, because it's not mine.

Personally, I would not be happy living MMM's life.  He takes tremendous pleasure out of doing for himself; me, I grew up poor and had to do for myself out of necessity, not choice, and if I never have to clean my own damn house again for the rest of my life, I will be a very, very happy person.  So my budget includes housecleaners.  I also don't mind my job nearly as much as he did, so it's not really a hardship to work a little longer to be able to afford that in perpetuity -- that tradeoff is 100% worth it to me.  OTOH, we still save about half our salary, cook our own food, and don't buy even a fraction of the crap we could, because spending money on all of that stuff doesn't make me happy.  Yeah, it's not someone else's version of a perfect Mustachian life.  Sosume. 

*Yes, I will admit that this is my dream.  I just haven't been able to bring myself to pull the trigger on the car, because, damn, that's a ridiculous amount of money.

Tl;dr:  To me, paying upwards of $2K to sit through a K-Pop concert would be hell on earth.  But the question is whether it's worth it to Bob, or if he's just unthinkingly throwing money at All The Things.
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TheAnonOne

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2017, 08:59:29 AM »
I've been on a week long cruise, flew down to port, did a few fun excursions and our bill was around 900 bucks. So, the value proposition for certain activities is clearly higher for me.

FTFY.
Heh, sure. Point is, some activities offer more enjoyment for the money or at least more time?

FYI, I never said the cruise was amazing. I wouldn't be opposed to going on another in the future but, I have many other things to do/see/visit first. Going to Tokyo in a month!



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surfhb

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2017, 09:03:28 AM »
Spending $1k on a week long cruise?      Now that's what I call perverse!   :).   

Can't think of anything I'd like to do less than spend a week with a bunch of fat, white mid westerners on a boat.


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Chris22

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2017, 09:10:19 AM »
The only real question here is whether Bob values the concert more than the 70 hrs he needs to work to appreciate it, and if he's living beyond his means to finance it.  If he comes back Monday bitching about his job and complaining about how he has no savings and his credit cards are maxed, and he's driving a new jacked-up truck that he traded in his 2-year old-car for even though he was upside down, then yeah, he's a dumb-ass.  And, frankly, I suspect most people who run around and spend their money on All The Things fall into this category.  But if he's decided that he gets so much enjoyment out of K-Pop that he'd rather work for 40 years than cut back to retire earlier, and if he's otherwise living within his means in order to afford these splurges, well, more power to him.

There is a pretty common human mindset that what works for me is "right," and that people who make different choices are wrong or stupid or [insert epithet here].  And beyond that, there is a particular mindset here the certain splurges are ok and others are not.  Tell someone here that your dream is to hike the Appalachian trail and so you need to minimize your expenses to save up to be able to take 6 months off work, and you will get 300 people telling you how awesome you are.  OTOH, tell someone here that your favorite thing in the world is driving cars around the racetrack, and that you're looking at dropping 5% of your savings on a used Porsche to follow your hobby, and you're willing to work two years longer to cover the cost,* and at best many people will roll their eyes at you.  But the things that make me happy likely don't make others happy, and the things that annoy others may not annoy me.  Trying to live someone else's dream would make me completely miserable, because it's not mine.

Personally, I would not be happy living MMM's life.  He takes tremendous pleasure out of doing for himself; me, I grew up poor and had to do for myself out of necessity, not choice, and if I never have to clean my own damn house again for the rest of my life, I will be a very, very happy person.  So my budget includes housecleaners.  I also don't mind my job nearly as much as he did, so it's not really a hardship to work a little longer to be able to afford that in perpetuity -- that tradeoff is 100% worth it to me.  OTOH, we still save about half our salary, cook our own food, and don't buy even a fraction of the crap we could, because spending money on all of that stuff doesn't make me happy.  Yeah, it's not someone else's version of a perfect Mustachian life.  Sosume. 

*Yes, I will admit that this is my dream.  I just haven't been able to bring myself to pull the trigger on the car, because, damn, that's a ridiculous amount of money.

Tl;dr:  To me, paying upwards of $2K to sit through a K-Pop concert would be hell on earth.  But the question is whether it's worth it to Bob, or if he's just unthinkingly throwing money at All The Things.
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Chris22

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2017, 09:13:53 AM »
I've been on a week long cruise, flew down to port, did a few fun excursions and our bill was around 900 bucks. So, the value proposition for certain activities is clearly higher for me.

FTFY.
Heh, sure. Point is, some activities offer more enjoyment for the money

I think the single biggest failing of the mentality of MMM and often this board is that MMM and the board members purport to know what provides other people happiness. 

acroy

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2017, 09:14:32 AM »
yeesh, embarrassing amount of hubris in this thread by some posters, lets be better than that. Many of us have gone through our own growth curve, we've not always been so badass ourselves.

Miata is indeed a great answer to most questions!!

Khan

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2017, 09:21:39 AM »
Oh, I don't fault Bob for his love of Kpop, concerts, or spending money in ways that bring him joy.

I fault him for his choice of how he spent it.

Going to a concert? Enjoy. Spending $200 or more on it? Have at.
Getting scalped at 5x the price? Don't feed the sharks. Like I said, I'm pretty sure this is just a random concert, and considering that Girls Generation(the first mega-kpop group) lost a member already(retired), I'm pretty sure this is just a random concert.
Flying to a city that he probably has no intention of enjoying, staying in a hotel, all to get scalped for probably a single concert event highlight?...

Like I said, book a flight to Korea, or Japan, or wait till the next round of concerts are announced. I think I spent 2 grand on almost 2 weeks in Japan in 2009...

Also
Quote
The answer is always Miata
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 09:36:31 AM by Khanjar »

tnevy4

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2017, 09:25:18 AM »
I've totally made terrible monetary decisions that is how I ended up here. Cars are definitely a big weak spot for me. I keep trying for the whole practical thing but it is way hard for me. Speeding tickets made my wife grumpy. I bought a big dumb truck for no reason when she said I had to get rid of the fun car.

jtraggie99

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2017, 09:26:30 AM »
I love Mr. Money Mustache, but I think MMM will never win in the general public.  Most of the people are just too stupid, to follow MMM for their own good.  I've seen some horrendous examples of reverse-Badassity that just blows my mind.

Here is a recent example:  A friend of a friend is into K-pop (Korean pop) - let's call him Bob.  Bob loves most of the bands, bands like BTS, BAP, etc. (I'm not Korean, so I know very little about this).  This friend makes around $70k per year, decided they wanted to see some K-pop concerts in the US.  The face value of the tickets, including front-row, are around $200 per seat, pretty steep.  However, scalpers / brokers already bought up the best tickets during the first few minutes of the sale.  Ordinary people have zero chance to fight professional brokers who use a myriad of techniques to get those seats.

So this person decides to look on Stubhub for seats.  Bob finds a seat near the front for $1,000, in a venue out of town, halfway across the country. Bob decides he has to have it, and buys the ticket for $1k, books travel (air, hotel, etc) for another $1k, just to see this 2 hour concert.

Total cost to Bob is $2k, or 2.8% of his annual salary, before taxes.  Bob makes $35 per hour, this means the concert will take 57 hours of Bob's work to save $2k (before taxes), or around 75 hours after taxes.   In other words, to enjoy a 2 hour concert, Bob has to work 60 - 75 hours to save for it.

This is just insane.  Call me crazy or lazy, but I'd rather just do nothing for 60-75 hours, rather than attend a 2 hour concert.  Or maybe get super high on drugs (being sarcastic here but not really - wouldn't getting high for hours / days on end be better than blowing it stupidly on a 2 hour concert? - I don't do drugs btw), or go buy a new washer / dryer, or buy a new fridge, or buy a 3 week cruise, or a home entertainment set, or 2 years of gas, or a night with a high end escort, etc.  You get the idea.  In no way I can imagine that a 2 hour concert is worth this amount of money.

Now multiply Bob by thousands of people, because these K-pop concerts are generally sold out, and a lot of people over-pay for the concerts by buying the tickets from brokers / scalpers.  It boggles the mind what kind of money is being spent.  Worst of all, the money is not even going to the bands these people enjoy...it mostly goes to the middle man, the broker / scalper.

I dropped a friend off at a K-pop concert recently.  The people attending were mostly younger people, the "hip" generation who love these bands. So the people who overpay for these events are not even wealth, rich people who don't even blink an eye at spending the crazy money for these tickets.   And, at the concert venues, they are buying over-priced shirts, stupid glow-wands at $60 each... I really think those people are insane.

Coming back full circle, these are some of the worst value propositions for your money I can think of.  For $2k, I can imagine a hell of a better time than standing in a crowd watching a band perform for a couple of hours.  Logic it does not make.

I have a reservoir full of anti-Badassity stories like this.  It boggles my mind the kind of stupid shit people do to blow money on.  It's like they don't value their own time or money.  This really convinces me that most people are dumb as rocks.  It's astounding that people actually resonate with MMM and have some sanity in this world.  I truly think we are the exception, not the rule.


I see a lot of posts and sentiments like this around here.  I'm not knocking your choices, but to call people out as being stupid and dumb as rocks for not following some form of MMM approach to money and life is just a tad pretentious.  Look, we all have a life to lead.  We all have things we value and enjoy.  At the end of the day, money is just a means to an end.  That end, in theory, is to allow you to live the life you want to live.  For some, we would rather save for the future so we are not tied to a job (the sooner the better), and that may mean making choices to give up things, for now at least, that we would otherwise spend money on that we enjoy.  For others, they want to enjoy life now.  Is one way better than the other?  MMM and many here argue there is.  But as with most things in life, do what's right for now.

Yes, blowing all your money, living paycheck to paycheck, running up huge amounts of debt, definitely seems foolish and stupid.  Is there a middle ground?  Sure. 

But what works for many people here and seems like the right thing, might not seem that way to many others.  Their values and priorities may be different.  That's ok.  That doesn't necessarily make them stupid.  Sometimes it seems there is an incessant need to call out others not falling in line to the MMM ways, in order to feel better about our on decisions. 

Laura33

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2017, 09:35:59 AM »
I've been on a week long cruise, flew down to port, did a few fun excursions and our bill was around 900 bucks. So, the value proposition for certain activities is clearly higher for me.

FTFY.
Heh, sure. Point is, some activities offer more enjoyment for the money or at least more time?

FYI, I never said the cruise was amazing. I wouldn't be opposed to going on another in the future but, I have many other things to do/see/visit first. Going to Tokyo in a month!

Now that I'm jealous about!  :-)

honeybbq

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2017, 09:50:56 AM »
I agree with most of the replied sentiment.

Is spending 2k on a concert something that *I* think is crazy and would never ever do? Yes.

But let's look at some of the foundations of the spending:

- It's an experience which is likely to retain a higher level of happiness than just buying a THING
- It's something the person seems to be able to afford - i.e. not going into debt to do.
- It might be a semi-reasonable expenditure and budgeted if it is their MAIN hobby.
- It's easy to judge how other people spend their money. I have hobbies and spending habits I'm sure some people here would choke on. But I really don't care - I'm living MY life, not theirs.


NoVa

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2017, 09:56:39 AM »
The good news is that you don't have to ask how the concert was. If they dropped $2k on it, it was awesome, regardless of outside perception.

Dora the Homebody

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2017, 10:22:10 AM »
I think sometimes people forget, that when you are saving pretty much EVERYTHING for retirement, you are gambling.  You are betting that you will live long enough to retire, that you will be healthy enough to enjoy it.

I'm hedging my bets by enjoying life as it comes along, as well as saving a lot to retire early.

My own personal most "anti-badassity example"?  A horse with a 5-figure price tag.  And when I couldn't find him suitable accommodations... I bought him his own farm.  And then I bought *him* a horse (4 figure price tag) to keep him company. 

Living the life I always dreamt of (but never thought I would actually get), is pretty amazing.  If I die tomorrow that would be ok.  I didn't waste any time and I didn't save everything for a "later".  Every day is a gift, let's not forget that.

mm1970

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2017, 10:27:41 AM »
Quote
Call me crazy or lazy, but I'd rather just do nothing for 60-75 hours, rather than attend a 2 hour concert.

You're not crazy. He could download every concert video of every kpop and jpop group he could ever want on torrent sites, take a week off, and watch it to his heart's content. 2k for only 2 effective hours of entertainment, +1 hour of crowd bullshit minimum(plus the TSA bullshit to fly to and from the city) before and afterwards is absolutely not worth it, ever.

I mean, maybe if it was a once in a lifetime thing, like the Tragically Hip's farewell tour, but just a rando concert? He could, and should, book a flight to Korea, or somewhere in the asian countries and spend some time over there, see a concert or twenty over there, rather than this craziness.
This is so spot on it's crazy... I still can't fathom what kind of mental disease it takes for Bob to make this kind of decision.  What's sad is this is so pervasive. You see people paying outrageous sums of money for sporting events, concerts, and other kinds of popular shows.  I could barely be persuaded to pay face value of tickets to go, to put up with the madness, never mind paying many times over the face value of a ticket.

I just don't know... Bob will be working for the rest of life making stupid financial decisions like this.  Me... I could tell my boss I'm quitting today, and not bat an eyelash at the loss of future income.  I find my personal financial situation so much more satisfying than Bob, and all it took was not to fuck up making stupid decisions like this.
It's really hard for me to understand too - I have several friends who REALLY love concerts.  Go to a ton of them, even travel for them.

I went to my first local concert last year.  Just this year, I noticed that Depeche Mode tickets were going on sale.  I thought "why not", and they were sold out in less than 5 minutes.  I expect it was the brokers and other local celebrity types - like people with box seats, and radio stations, that got them all.  Oh well, that's fine.  I mean, they are on my iPod.  I don't need to spend $200 a ticket to see them in person.

MandalayVA

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2017, 11:02:17 AM »
I spent a small fortune on two tickets to the Harry Potter play in London last year, and thanks to the whole "I'm buying tickets for a show on a different continent" thing it was more of a hassle than I'd bargained for.  It didn't help that the show was on the day we arrived in London, and we barely had enough time to shower and find something to eat before having to get our jetlagged selves to the theatre. 

But it was worth it.  Every penny, every bit of hassle, and it was the start of a memorable trip to celebrate my fiftieth birthday.  So there.  :p

jtraggie99

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2017, 01:03:23 PM »
I think sometimes people forget, that when you are saving pretty much EVERYTHING for retirement, you are gambling.  You are betting that you will live long enough to retire, that you will be healthy enough to enjoy it.

I'm hedging my bets by enjoying life as it comes along, as well as saving a lot to retire early.

My own personal most "anti-badassity example"?  A horse with a 5-figure price tag.  And when I couldn't find him suitable accommodations... I bought him his own farm.  And then I bought *him* a horse (4 figure price tag) to keep him company. 

Living the life I always dreamt of (but never thought I would actually get), is pretty amazing.  If I die tomorrow that would be ok.  I didn't waste any time and I didn't save everything for a "later".  Every day is a gift, let's not forget that.

This.  A cousin of mine died almost 2 years ago.  He was 43 at the time.  Educated, great career in city management, and had made a lot of money.  He had never married nor had any kids, although he was engaged.  He always said he didn't want to get married until after he retired.  He was basically retired and starting on another career.  Now, I'm not going to say he never lived.  He had a lot of stuff and had done a lot of things, but he also saved a lot and invested carefully.  He was careful and frugal in a lot of ways.  But then, before his "retirement" had barely begun, he died of a heart attack.  Relatively good health supposedly and just out of the blue and it was over.  You never know when it's going to be your time.

alycks

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2017, 01:13:19 PM »
I was talking to an acquaintance who expressed she was having money problems. She's a resident physician and her husband is a car salesman. They have one daughter.

Her idea of cutting back to make ends meet was to cancel her $10/mo. Planet Fitness membership. She is obese (I later learned she is having bariatric surgery). I'm not trying to shame her for being overweight, but I just don't understand the rationale of a person whose household income is probably at least $80,000 resorting to cutting a $10/mo fitness membership to make ends meet. Oh yeah she has an Apple watch and drives an Audi too.

Chris22

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2017, 01:27:09 PM »
I was talking to an acquaintance who expressed she was having money problems. She's a resident physician and her husband is a car salesman. They have one daughter.

Her idea of cutting back to make ends meet was to cancel her $10/mo. Planet Fitness membership. She is obese (I later learned she is having bariatric surgery). I'm not trying to shame her for being overweight, but I just don't understand the rationale of a person whose household income is probably at least $80,000 resorting to cutting a $10/mo fitness membership to make ends meet. Oh yeah she has an Apple watch and drives an Audi too.

She is probably not in the position to cut anything else.  What's the resale value of an Apple watch, $100?  And the Audi is likely either leased or financed, and either way probably upside down, would take cash that she probably doesn't have to get rid of it.  Not defending either purchase, just saying there likely isn't a way to reverse her fortunes with either of those things in the short term.

VolcanicArts

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2017, 01:54:11 PM »
The high end escort while watching the concert and drinking beer sounds like a lot more fun and you could still have some of that 2 k left over.

PiobStache

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2017, 02:09:13 PM »
A couple of years ago, between second row, center stage tickets, luxury hotel suite, booze, etc. we spent about 2.5k seeing one of Rush's last shows.  I first saw them in 1981 at Cobo Hall.  I will carry this memory to my grave and view it as a well spent 2.5k.  Of course, I make way more than the concert goer in the OP, but 2.5k for an evening is still 2.5k for an evening and I think it was a valid decision.

RobFIRE

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Re: the most anti-Badassity examples you've ever seen
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2017, 02:33:20 PM »
It really depends on the context as to whether $2k for a concert is discretionary spending that you'll remember the experience from for life, or a ridiculous waste of money. If you have money saved, no consumer debt, emergency fund set up etc. and recognize that spending this amount of money is going to cost a week's wages or so, and seeing such a concert would really be something special to you, then $2k for a concert could be reasonable (of course what event/experience is worth $2k is going to be different for each person). If you're on the other end of that spectrum, in debt/no savings/haven't considered the opportunity cost of the money then $2k is $2k more than you can afford.