Author Topic: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming  (Read 12420 times)

SunshineGirl

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The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« on: September 28, 2013, 05:46:40 PM »
Say you owned or were going to buy a property that would be in your family for at least 100 years, and any improvements or purchases you made, you would want to do with that in mind.

This might include things like solar, water harvesting, insulation, windows, landscaping, quality of materials, layout, remodeling, etc. The goal is quality and longevity and a beautiful place to live. The purpose of the exercise isn't to save money in the moment, but to build over time a "homestead" of sorts (while in an urban setting), with low ongoing expenses.

What would you do, to your property or another property?

For example, I would want this property to be in a walkable, safe neighborhood, close to grocery/park/library. I would want two living units, ideally, for visitors or extended family or income to pay utilities/taxes.

What would you want?

SunshineGirl

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2013, 05:51:09 PM »
The most awesome shade tree ever. 

A screen porch.

gecko10x

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2013, 05:55:13 PM »
Substantial building materials- not this 2x4 twig crap that is used mostly today. Passive and/or active solar design.

Along the same lines as multi-unit, I'd probably go with all rooms have their own bath instead.

Daleth

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 07:02:47 PM »
In addition to what y'all said, I would want space for a large workshop, an art studio, a music studio and a library. My family is chock full of bookish, crafty/engineer-y, artistic and/or musical people.

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 07:43:21 PM »
I've actually thought about this a good bit.
If I were at all able to, I'd build. Honestly, I don't trust anything made in the last 50 years to stand up under a multi-generational timeframe without it turning into the Ship of Theseus. I certainly wouldn't build with sticks, either-- what's bouncing around in my head right now is a timber-framed ferrocement construction. You don't, strictly speaking, need timber framing, or much of any framing, if you do ferrocement the right way, but it's a suspenders-and-belt thing. And I love timber framing. (For the look: think Tudor or traditional German/Swiss style, only instead of stuccoed brick/wattle-and-daub in that lovely timber framing, the wattle is steel and the daub is latex-concrete: ferrocement.)
I'd build it south-facing, with lots of glazing-- I'm in the northern hemisphere and consider solar heat a must, unless you give me a big enough woodlot. Even then, I'd rather solar: there are better uses for a woodlot than firewood. (Sugar bush, nut and fruit orchard, food forest? Go nuts!) Actually, I'd really like that woodlot.
* If urban, at least a double-lot for an Urban Farm style homestead. If by-laws are onerous, the front yard is an orchard, and they can suck it: apple blossoms are beautifully ornamental. The back yard is my business in just about any city I've heard of, fortunately.
*Rainwater harvesting off the roof, because city water will fail after a day or two without pump power, and storms happen.  Besides, why pay a bigger water bill than necessary?
* A full workshop; carpentry and blacksmithing/metalwork, because those are awesome hobbies that can bring in cash for taxes. I'm sure my descendants would agree.
* A library/study. It might not be confined to one room. My apartment is practically this; there's barely a wall without a bookshelf, and I love it. Public libraries are all well and good, but! If I'm in this for the long haul, my town might get taken over by libertarians, or just go broke-- I don't want them going book-less a couple generations down the line.
* A full kitchen, pantry, root cellar. You said homestead, didn't you?

Ironically enough, I'll have no descendants to enjoy passing on this well-thought-out demesne. I'd have leave it to a collateral branch, alas.

brewer12345

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2013, 07:47:21 PM »
I've actually thought about this a good bit.
If I were at all able to, I'd build. Honestly, I don't trust anything made in the last 50 years to stand up under a multi-generational timeframe without it turning into the Ship of Theseus. I certainly wouldn't build with sticks, either-- what's bouncing around in my head right now is a timber-framed ferrocement construction. You don't, strictly speaking, need timber framing, or much of any framing, if you do ferrocement the right way, but it's a suspenders-and-belt thing. And I love timber framing. (For the look: think Tudor or traditional German/Swiss style, only instead of stuccoed brick/wattle-and-daub in that lovely timber framing, the wattle is steel and the daub is latex-concrete: ferrocement.)
I'd build it south-facing, with lots of glazing-- I'm in the northern hemisphere and consider solar heat a must, unless you give me a big enough woodlot. Even then, I'd rather solar: there are better uses for a woodlot than firewood. (Sugar bush, nut and fruit orchard, food forest? Go nuts!) Actually, I'd really like that woodlot.
* If urban, at least a double-lot for an Urban Farm style homestead. If by-laws are onerous, the front yard is an orchard, and they can suck it: apple blossoms are beautifully ornamental. The back yard is my business in just about any city I've heard of, fortunately.
*Rainwater harvesting off the roof, because city water will fail after a day or two without pump power, and storms happen.  Besides, why pay a bigger water bill than necessary?
* A full workshop; carpentry and blacksmithing/metalwork, because those are awesome hobbies that can bring in cash for taxes. I'm sure my descendants would agree.
* A library/study. It might not be confined to one room. My apartment is practically this; there's barely a wall without a bookshelf, and I love it. Public libraries are all well and good, but! If I'm in this for the long haul, my town might get taken over by libertarians, or just go broke-- I don't want them going book-less a couple generations down the line.
* A full kitchen, pantry, root cellar. You said homestead, didn't you?

Ironically enough, I'll have no descendants to enjoy passing on this well-thought-out demesne. I'd have leave it to a collateral branch, alas.

What, no underground bunker, machine gun turret, etc.?

bogart

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2013, 08:05:55 PM »
My timeline's half yours (50 years) and I plan to work with the house we already own, but I'm working on it.

My focus is somewhat different from the issues you ask about, but I'm pretty much a half-assed Mustachian.  My main goals are to get the entire first floor (currently only floor) of the house accessible and to add a second floor that can serve both as an apartment/separate living unit or as a master suite.  I figure that way we can live in the house as a house, rent out the upstairs (or downstairs) to generate income, move in an aging parent (to the downstairs) while having/allowing some privacy for all involved by living upstairs, and move a (paid) caretaker in ourselves if we need one.  Or  accommodate distant family for extended visits. 

At the risk of stating the obvious (given the described goals and projected duration of ownership), we like the neighborhood and find it and the town family (and senior) friendly.  It's near good hospitals (etc.) and for its size, the town has good public transport (and particularly for the elderly/impaired, at least for now), and is reasonably walk-/ bikable and in a moderate climate.

Rural

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 10:17:19 PM »
I've actually thought about this a good bit.
If I were at all able to, I'd build. Honestly, I don't trust anything made in the last 50 years to stand up under a multi-generational timeframe without it turning into the Ship of Theseus. I certainly wouldn't build with sticks, either-- what's bouncing around in my head right now is a timber-framed ferrocement construction. You don't, strictly speaking, need timber framing, or much of any framing, if you do ferrocement the right way, but it's a suspenders-and-belt thing. And I love timber framing. (For the look: think Tudor or traditional German/Swiss style, only instead of stuccoed brick/wattle-and-daub in that lovely timber framing, the wattle is steel and the daub is latex-concrete: ferrocement.)
I'd build it south-facing, with lots of glazing-- I'm in the northern hemisphere and consider solar heat a must, unless you give me a big enough woodlot. Even then, I'd rather solar: there are better uses for a woodlot than firewood. (Sugar bush, nut and fruit orchard, food forest? Go nuts!) Actually, I'd really like that woodlot.
* If urban, at least a double-lot for an Urban Farm style homestead. If by-laws are onerous, the front yard is an orchard, and they can suck it: apple blossoms are beautifully ornamental. The back yard is my business in just about any city I've heard of, fortunately.
*Rainwater harvesting off the roof, because city water will fail after a day or two without pump power, and storms happen.  Besides, why pay a bigger water bill than necessary?
* A full workshop; carpentry and blacksmithing/metalwork, because those are awesome hobbies that can bring in cash for taxes. I'm sure my descendants would agree.
* A library/study. It might not be confined to one room. My apartment is practically this; there's barely a wall without a bookshelf, and I love it. Public libraries are all well and good, but! If I'm in this for the long haul, my town might get taken over by libertarians, or just go broke-- I don't want them going book-less a couple generations down the line.
* A full kitchen, pantry, root cellar. You said homestead, didn't you?

Ironically enough, I'll have no descendants to enjoy passing on this well-thought-out demesne. I'd have leave it to a collateral branch, alas.

What, no underground bunker, machine gun turret, etc.?

We just finished building ours, and it's all of this, plus it is underground with the exception of the south side which is almost entirely glazing. Ten inch poured concrete walls on three sides, 2x6 framing on the south with all treated lumber to help with the termite problem, designed for solar heat, but we do have a nearly twenty acre wood lot and woodstove in addition.

 No roof rainwater, though we may add that later (metal roof, which may actually be the weak point, since it's only warranteed for fifty years). Meanwhile there's a spring for backup water. We could an might someday drop a well, it it's a long way down from the house to water.

 No solar electric yet, but we designed it in and will add when we can.

We have a full workshop in our barn (built before the house to facilitate house building). No blacksmithing yet, but everything else up to and including welding.

Enough space for garden enough to feed us, plus enough knowledge of the local plants to feed us from forage, and enough woods that we can hunt.

We even have the library and the books.

If we were to lose power permanently, the place would be a lot less convenient, but we wouldn't get hot or cold or hungry.

I takes a lot of planning and a lot of work. We spent about seven years in the process, and we're not yet done, though we are already close enough for the building inspectors and we think we'll be close enough for the insurance company in another week. Plus we own it all outright; I think that's a necessity for a homestead. As long as we can pay taxes, which are extremely low here, we're set.

Editing to add that I forgot: we built all on one level with 42" hallways and doorways for eventual clearance for walkers or wheelchairs. One bath is a walk-in shower stall with a seat (which we got for $100 from a salvage place).
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 10:20:56 PM by Rural »

Khan

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2013, 11:14:58 PM »
Oh Rural, please provide some pics! I'm especially interested in a pic of the house from the outside.

Random

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2013, 11:46:21 PM »
Thinking about what the next hundred years might bring, I would strive for energy independence (maybe including some kind of co-gen system to deal with refuse), some ability for food production, water collection, and perhaps protection during civil disturbance.  Part of energy independence needs to be proximity to support systems, whether rural or urban in nature.  As far as construction, etc, goes, the structure should have a durable frame, with flexibility inside to refit every 20 years as technology improves.  There was an article in Fine Homebuilding a few years ago that described this sort of design flex concept.  And you should have a cool view, of course.

No Name Guy

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, 04:04:39 PM »
Standing seam copper on a moderately pitched roof.  With heavy enough copper, 100 year life is easy.

100% soldered, heavy gauge copper plumbing, on both the supply AND drain side.

Fireproof exterior - say brick or stone.  Subtle exterior provisioning of windows (brackets) to allow pre-made thermal shields / covers to be quickly installed in the event of wildfire.

Durable interior materials on wear surfaces.  Stone and THICK hardwood flooring.  Tile where appropriate. 

If rural - an extra large septic tank, with an over sized drain field.  Will allow for future expansion of the home.  Gravity fed only - no pumps required. 

Pre-planned expansion.  Build the size of home you want / need, but design it such that there's a "logical" place to add on extra space should that be required in the future.  Pre-provision the house systems (electrical, plumbing, septic as noted, etc) to accept expansion.

Random brings up a good point - design in features that would allow for retrofitting.  Say a "tall" crawl space (5-ish feet) underneath to allow for easy working under the house (plus providing space for a root cellar).  Tall attic space would also make running new systems up top easier in the future.  Extra capacity in the electrical panel for future circuitry.  Raceways / conduit in the walls to allow for snaking / pulling new wiring.  Detailed as built plans / pictures while it's a work in progress in hard copy form to assist with "where to cut" questions in the future.  Also design for maintenance - cleanout access, crawl space access, attic access,  shut off valves, easy access to major systems (hot water, furnace, etc).

Multi-fuel - one doesn't know what will be the preferred energy sources in the future.  Hedge the bets by having them all - natty gas and electricity.  Wire the house for 12 volt DC (e.g. small solar or wind or micro hydro + batteries for 12v LED lighting and other minor electrical loads or use inverter when on the grid).  Have a multi-hundred gallon propane tank that can be switched into to the house natural gas system with the turn of a couple valves - use propane when its cheaper, natural gas when that's cheaper.  Include wood fired boiler + hot water radiators in a rural setting with wood lot.  Take full advantage of passive solar heating AND cooling possibilities - on the latter, design in such that one space (with the ability to be selectively isolated from the rest of the house) is heated by the sun, hot air is exhausted out the top, creating a draw thru effect.  The inlet draws air from an underground race way at the far end of the house, so that the cool air is drawn through the house before entering the warm room at the bottom. 




SnackDog

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2013, 04:47:00 PM »
Start with the right piece of land, which should be large enough to allow the house to interact with the landscape a bit and sort out environmental factors like passive solar as well as provide insulation from neighbors so you aren't stuck too close to one you dont like for 99 years.  For longevity you want solid construction - probably stone, steel, concrete and glass.  Design for flexibility so your descendants can add on or change to suit.

galaxie

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2013, 07:21:50 AM »
My house is already almost 100 years old.  We bought it with the idea that we'd live in it "forever" and we'd want it to have value to our hypothetical future children. 

It's a two-family - I agree with the earlier comments about being able to rent out part of it when you don't need it, or have more family move in at some point.  It's in a light urban area with good public transportation access, walkability, schools, libraries, and other public services.  It has a giant shady tree in the back yard.  The rental market in our neighborhood is likely to stay good (major city, lots of colleges nearby), so even if the family moves out eventually it'll be an asset to own this house.

Things we might do in the future include...
  • Adding a green roof on top of the garage for garden space (the tree throws too much shade on the rest of the yard)
  • Moving the first-floor apartment's laundry from the basement into the apartment and making other modifications to make it easy for old people (perhaps our older selves) to live there
  • Improving the basement wiring to set up a solid work room/project space in there
  • Replacing the remaining original windows with more energy-efficient ones and potentially having insulation blown in
  • Whenever appliances need replacing, we try to get the most efficient and durable option we can afford

Franklin

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2013, 07:53:18 AM »
A multi-sport court in the backyard.  Basketball, tennis, street and ice hockey, pitching machine, and so on. 

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2013, 08:51:15 AM »
...

What, no underground bunker, machine gun turret, etc.?

Well, not that you'd know about. :P

Did that actually come off as prepperish? Just curious, because I don't see how you'd need the end of the world to get a payout off of any of that.

Rural:
I are jealous. That sounds like everything we're after.
I like the idea of earth-berming, but my better half thinks it'd be too much like living in a basement apartment.

Christiana

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2013, 09:45:44 AM »
Briefly, some of the things I'd be thinking about:

Trees, especially fruit and nut trees.

Soil and its suitability for gardening.

Demographics and development patterns in the neighborhood.  Whether or not I can live with the local government.

Low-maintenance durable and fireproof materials:  such as metal roof, stone or brick walls.  Prefer local materials.

For the things that you will need to maintain:  keep them simple and repairable.

Storage and utility spaces--it will be a working home, not a designer showroom.

Environmental factors:  house has to function well as a shelter in that particular place and climate.  Sun, wind, seasonal weather.

All the little things that make a house livable and lovable--see the book A Pattern Language.

brewer12345

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2013, 10:02:45 AM »
...

What, no underground bunker, machine gun turret, etc.?

Well, not that you'd know about. :P

Did that actually come off as prepperish? Just curious, because I don't see how you'd need the end of the world to get a payout off of any of that.

Rural:
I are jealous. That sounds like everything we're after.
I like the idea of earth-berming, but my better half thinks it'd be too much like living in a basement apartment.

Yeah, it came off prepper.

Personally, I don't think its possible to plan for the next hundred years.  I'd be happy with the next 5 or 10.  Better to remain agile, mobile and hostile to deal with things as they emerge.

Spork

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2013, 10:09:35 AM »
The most awesome shade tree ever. 


Best answer yet.


I like the idea of solar... but...  I am NEVER an early adopter.  If you're really planning on a 100 year house, any solar bought today will be a quaint chuckle of "get this awful, dangerous, expensive crap outta here."   We'll hit some flat line where solar gets to where it pays off without rebates/subsidies and we'll hit a point where it is "the norm".   For a 100 year house: I don't think we're there yet.


100% soldered, heavy gauge copper plumbing, on both the supply AND drain side.


I don't think you want copper on the drain side.... And even on the supply side you're likely to get pinhole leaks at about 50 years (depending on water chemistry).  It may very well be sturdier than today's PVC or PEX.  Time will tell.

I think cast iron is still the "big boy" on the drain side.  (And I can show you pictures of my cast iron from a previous 1970s house that had the bottom rusted out.  It comes complete with a Hogan's Heroes escape tunnel in the living room.)

stealmystapler

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2013, 11:00:34 AM »
This post jumped out at me immediately, and I've been mulling over it the past few days. Similar to galaxie, I suppose, I would choose a house that is already nearing a hundred years old.

A hundred-year-old house has already stood the test of time. It was built by skilled craftsmen, who used high-quality materials - in large part because those high quality materials still existed. Modern, farmed wood is pitiful and far less durable compared to the tight-grained, old-growth wood that old houses - and all of their parts, including windows - were built from. An older house is likely to be located in a walkable neighborhood, nearby parks, libraries, and stores. From an environmental perspective, older houses were not designed with modern systems in mind. They function as machines on their own - they are often aligned on their lots to take advantage of natural light, the warmth of the day, and have operable windows for ventilation.

You can always add new technology and additions - but to my mind, you gain the most benefit by starting with something that already exists.

kdms

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2013, 01:13:29 PM »

Better to remain agile, mobile and hostile to deal with things as they emerge.


This made me laugh.  I don't know you at all, but I'm married to someone with exactly the same attitude and choice of words.  :)

No Name Guy

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2013, 02:17:04 PM »

I don't think you want copper on the drain side.... And even on the supply side you're likely to get pinhole leaks at about 50 years (depending on water chemistry).  It may very well be sturdier than today's PVC or PEX.  Time will tell.

I think cast iron is still the "big boy" on the drain side.  (And I can show you pictures of my cast iron from a previous 1970s house that had the bottom rusted out.  It comes complete with a Hogan's Heroes escape tunnel in the living room.)
Hard to say....my place was built 50-ish years ago. 

Supply is all copper and doing great.  We have "clean" not very mineralized water here in the Pacific Northwest, so that probably helps.  Yes, though to the statement on time will tell on new materials.  However were I to have to choose today, I'd stick with the tried and true - I'll let others experiment with innovative new products like that LP siding that failed miserably 10 years ago.  Once PVC, PEX and the rest of the new materials prove themselves over extended times in real service, then I'd add them to the list.

Drain under the toilet is cast iron and the cast iron flange holding on the 'can' about toast.  Did a light "touch up" remodel including new sheet vinyl a couple years back and it was a bear to get the toilet to stay attached and leak free when it was re-set due to the deterioration.  I have a major bath remodel planned for a year or two and hope it holds out until then, when the drain plumbing get a major re-work and a complete replacement down to something solid. 

Copper drain line from the kitchen sink is still 100% solid as of the kitchen refresh from 10 years ago.

YMMV depending on local circumstances, of course.

In any event, were I designing a "100 year" house, as previously noted, having features to allow for heavy maintenance of major systems like plumbing would be a high priority.  A pin hole leak when the pipe is easily accessed in a spacious crawl space that has isolation valves on the line is a trivial matter to fix.  Having it buried behind walls on an upper floor where the leak destroys multiple rooms on the other hand......

Spork

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2013, 02:36:42 PM »

In any event, were I designing a "100 year" house, as previously noted, having features to allow for heavy maintenance of major systems like plumbing would be a high priority.  A pin hole leak when the pipe is easily accessed in a spacious crawl space that has isolation valves on the line is a trivial matter to fix.  Having it buried behind walls on an upper floor where the leak destroys multiple rooms on the other hand......

We just plumbed our house with Pex... and when I had them bid it out, I envisioned exactly what you say: a manifold for both the hot and the cold water supply with home runs back to it.  The plumbing was well under way before I realized that wasn't what I was getting.  My fault for not getting that worked out in advance.

The (tiny amount) of work I've done with Pex -- it's awesome to install.  Fittings can be crimped in 10 seconds and the stuff can be pulled through walls like Romex...  BUT... we'll see if it holds over time.

SunshineGirl

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2013, 04:11:19 PM »
This post jumped out at me immediately, and I've been mulling over it the past few days. Similar to galaxie, I suppose, I would choose a house that is already nearing a hundred years old.

A hundred-year-old house has already stood the test of time. It was built by skilled craftsmen, who used high-quality materials - in large part because those high quality materials still existed. Modern, farmed wood is pitiful and far less durable compared to the tight-grained, old-growth wood that old houses - and all of their parts, including windows - were built from. An older house is likely to be located in a walkable neighborhood, nearby parks, libraries, and stores. From an environmental perspective, older houses were not designed with modern systems in mind. They function as machines on their own - they are often aligned on their lots to take advantage of natural light, the warmth of the day, and have operable windows for ventilation.

You can always add new technology and additions - but to my mind, you gain the most benefit by starting with something that already exists.

You busted me. I live in a 90-year-old house that's held up well, but as we may remodel, I'm trying to think ahead to the next 100 years. A previous remodel opened the kitchen up to the dining room and living room, and while that worked well in some respects, the longer time goes on, the more I want a closed kitchen again - it makes the rest of the house quieter and more peaceful not to have to see appliances. Also, the present kitchen is "view-locked," in that it has no decent view, but a slight alteration could have a great view to the backyard.

I agree with another poster that if each bedroom could have its own bath, that would be ideal. Also, while I have no need for a large master bedroom, ideally it is a little away from the other bedrooms and the other bedroom are of sufficient size that they don't feel cramped as a child grows. I would like three adult-sized bedrooms vs. a "master" and two smaller. I wonder whether bathtubs are even necessary anymore.

In-town privacy is an ideal to shoot for for me as well, without making the house appear as a fortress.

I am loving reading these replies. What else, what else?

Rural

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2013, 07:59:56 PM »
...

What, no underground bunker, machine gun turret, etc.?

Well, not that you'd know about. :P

Did that actually come off as prepperish? Just curious, because I don't see how you'd need the end of the world to get a payout off of any of that.

Rural:
I are jealous. That sounds like everything we're after.
I like the idea of earth-berming, but my better half thinks it'd be too much like living in a basement apartment.

The trick to earth beaming is windows on the south. Ours is all south windows, to the point that there's little enough south wall that we checked the engineering carefully to be sure we had load-bearing redundancy. The house is also long along the east-west axis, only two rooms deep back into the hill, and then there's an open courtyard one room deep in the middle to bring light into the back of the house. A bunker it's not, and machine guns would definitely ruin all that glass. :-)

The Great Danes do have the run of the front porch, though, so the only options for getting in are through them or through a solid concrete wall. Not because we're peppers but because rural areas in the South are infested with methamphetamine.

kendallf

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2013, 08:39:25 PM »
I'm almost done renovating a 65 year old house, and I think it should be good for another 50 without major rework.  The "bones" of the house were good; frame construction on a crawl space, hand framed rafters and 1x4 roof sheathing.  Diagonal 1x6 subfloor with 1" tongue and groove oak flooring throughout.  Walls are plaster over wire lath; minor settling cracks here and there but basically bulletproof.  All of that stuff is good to go for another 50, easily.

I put a metal roof on; it's warrantied for 50 years and with light maintenance (i.e., paint) should be good for 100+.  The exterior had previously had aluminum siding put on.  It's not fancy but it's durable and basically maintenance free.  The windows had been replaced with decent vinyl units, and it has awnings over all windows and doors so they don't really have any weather issues.  Newer HVAC and blown in attic insulation means it's more energy efficient than my 1974 block house on a slab.

I replaced all of the plumbing; the cast iron drains were well done originally but they were rusted, clogged and leaking at this point.  I put in PVC drains and CPVC supply lines.  My other house has 40 year old PVC drains that seem to be doing fine; I hope these will be the same. 

I do foresee eventually having to rewire the house; it was wired with two wire circuits and no grounds.  Everything works and the walls I did get into exhibited good condition wire sheathing right now so I left it alone. 

I don't know if we'll grow old(er) in this place, but it would certainly be a good candidate for our last house. 

teen persuasion

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2013, 09:53:39 AM »
This post jumped out at me immediately, and I've been mulling over it the past few days. Similar to galaxie, I suppose, I would choose a house that is already nearing a hundred years old.

A hundred-year-old house has already stood the test of time. It was built by skilled craftsmen, who used high-quality materials - in large part because those high quality materials still existed. Modern, farmed wood is pitiful and far less durable compared to the tight-grained, old-growth wood that old houses - and all of their parts, including windows - were built from. An older house is likely to be located in a walkable neighborhood, nearby parks, libraries, and stores. From an environmental perspective, older houses were not designed with modern systems in mind. They function as machines on their own - they are often aligned on their lots to take advantage of natural light, the warmth of the day, and have operable windows for ventilation.

You can always add new technology and additions - but to my mind, you gain the most benefit by starting with something that already exists.

When I saw the title of this thread, I was thinking in terms of a hundred year old house, not building new.  Of course, a hundred year old house is about the newest I'd ever consider buying (Victorians are balloon framed, but at least didn't have particle board); ours is probably 175 years old.  It has its pros (sturdy and overbuilt by modern standards) and cons (needs insulation).  We've been doing lots of unremuddling: removing layers and layers of fake paneling and drop ceilings, removing walls added to divide rooms into smaller ones or to hide things, reworking "modern" conveniences like plumbing and electric that were added ad hoc.

As much as I sometimes fantasize about starting over from scratch and doing things the "right" way, I agree with the above poster about the better quality of materials in older homes.  I'd love to shoot the previous owner who removed all the original windows and storms and replaced them with vinyl inserts!  Not an improvement!

For the future, I'd try to plan for new options; change is inevitable.  I also like redundancy.  I'd want the option to add solar (not necessarily on the roof, or maybe on an outbuilding), wind, hydro, etc.  For our area, heating is more of an issue than cooling, so I'm interested in ground source heating, maybe supplemented by woodburning  and definitely passive solar heating and solar water heating (or at least pre-heating).  When we last had to replace our furnace, and considered our options, we went w/ oil fired baseboard hydronic, since we don't have NG here, and at that time oil was ridiculously cheap compared to LP; now we are paying thru the nose for oil.

Another of the pros/cons of our old house is its location.  We are in a rural area a few miles from the village, so nothing is "nearby", but we have acres for our garden, trees, fruit trees, privacy.  If we were in the village many more things would be in walking distance (except for stores), but lots are smaller, everyone knows everyone else's business, and there is an issue w/ past environmental contamination by a local fertilizer company (they are remediating, but the remediation work itself is disruptive and never ending).  When locating a long term family property you would need to anticipate future issues: will the area develop further or decline, could industry expand near you, transportation changes - roads built nearby, or services atrophy (like the passenger trains that previously linked my village w/ cities)...

BZB

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2013, 10:35:46 AM »
Quote
When locating a long term family property you would need to anticipate future issues: will the area develop further or decline, could industry expand near you, transportation changes - roads built nearby, or services atrophy (like the passenger trains that previously linked my village w/ cities)...

I agree that you would have to anticipate future issues on the location of your home. For example, looking at one neighborhood where fancy single family homes stood in my city 100 years ago, the area has fluctuated depending on the economy and industry. fancy homes --> neglected or abandoned homes surrounded by warehouses, freeway overpasses,  and railroad tracks --> burned out husks inhabited by drug dealers --> yuppie and hipster condo land interspersed with methadone clinics and homeless shelters. Also it would be important to factor in effects of global warming or natural disaster. Coastal area? Likely to get the BIG ONE one day? (Massive Hurricane/Tornado/Earthquake)

@ Christiana - I LOVE the book A Pattern Language!

NeverWasACornflakeGirl

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2013, 10:53:48 AM »
I don't think it's possible to plan for the next 20 years, let alone the next 50.  Everything changes much more quickly now than it did even 100 years ago.  Not only technology, but also neighborhoods, etc.  Even if you live in a rural area, you can't predict what will happen.  When my parents built their home in 1974 they could not have predicted that, 20 years later, the swamp adjacent to their property would become a protected wetland and would no longer be sprayed for mosquitos.  Now, they have two acres but you can't go outside without a layer of DEET on.  Similarly, people within a mile of them could not have predicted that some of the adjacent farmland would become a dirt bike track, which is incredibly loud and lit up like an airport at night.  Worse still, a hog farm could be built across the road from you, which would stink horribly.

In an urban area, it's impossible to predict what will happen in a neighborhood.  There are boroughs near us that were wonderful 50 years ago, and slums now.

gimp

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2013, 12:15:48 PM »
Substantial building materials- not this 2x4 twig crap that is used mostly today.

Yeah. I randomly saw a house built with 2x10s every six inches. I'm not a huge fan of wood, but that was a solid house in my book.

Now if I had way too much money, I'd use logs. And I don't mean the kind made out of planks, I mean http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Carcass_rounded_timber_alyans.jpg or http://www.contractortalk.com/attachments/f30/20378d1246413523-hand-framing-roof-log-house-dscf0012.jpg.

MilwaukeeStubble

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2013, 12:22:00 PM »
Substantial building materials- not this 2x4 twig crap that is used mostly today.

Yeah. I randomly saw a house built with 2x10s every six inches. I'm not a huge fan of wood, but that was a solid house in my book.

Now if I had way too much money, I'd use logs. And I don't mean the kind made out of planks, I mean http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Carcass_rounded_timber_alyans.jpg or http://www.contractortalk.com/attachments/f30/20378d1246413523-hand-framing-roof-log-house-dscf0012.jpg.

I didn't realize they still made houses out of logs like that.

That said, the roof framing on the second picture looks pathetic compared to all the logs holding it up :)

ritchie70

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2013, 12:51:36 PM »
Copper drain line from the kitchen sink is still 100% solid as of the kitchen refresh from 10 years ago.

YMMV depending on local circumstances, of course.

I've only ever seen copper drain lines once, in my mom's business. The building was originally built as a bridle shop (not bridal as in brides, bridle as in horses) so that should give you some idea of age. Roughly turn of the last century, and it has served many purposes since then, including VFW hall and movie theater.

At least what I could see from the basement roughly ten years ago still looked brand new. At it's newest it's from the 1960's, because she's been in it since the mid 1970's, and it sat vacant for a decade before she moved in.

monarda

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Re: The Hundred-Year House - Brainstorming
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2013, 05:52:43 PM »
The most awesome shade tree ever. 


Best answer yet.


I like the idea of solar... but...  I am NEVER an early adopter.  If you're really planning on a 100 year house, any solar bought today will be a quaint chuckle of "get this awful, dangerous, expensive crap outta here."   We'll hit some flat line where solar gets to where it pays off without rebates/subsidies and we'll hit a point where it is "the norm".   For a 100 year house: I don't think we're there yet.


Yes and no. The panels and inverters will change in efficiency and plateau, but the cost of the roof racking and wiring through your house will be about the same. We did a remodel running those wires from the basement to the roof (while it was all open), so that we can easily add the panels whenever we feel the technology is at that point. Or we can install a system soon, then in 25 years we can swap the panels and inverters for more modern ones, which will cost less and be twice as efficient.

I love this thread. One of our rental properties turns 100 this year.