Author Topic: the economics of a chicken coop  (Read 10879 times)

nereo

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the economics of a chicken coop
« on: January 20, 2015, 04:04:24 PM »
Over the weekend my friend and I started making plans for making a chicken-coop in his backyard.  I would be involved mostly just for shiggles and for my rough carpentry skills - he's into caring for the chickens and really wants them for fresh eggs (he keeps pseudo-paleo and he and his SO go through about 2 dozen eggs/week). Part of the discussion inevitably revolved around the economics of keeping 3-6 egg-layers.
Can anyone here comment strictly on the economic-side of keeping your own chickens?  I figure I can build a coop and run with scrap I have on hand plus maybe another $200 in supplies.  I'm not counting my time since this will be a 'just-for-fun' exercise for me.  How much does feed and other expenses cost over the course of a year? Can you spend less than $300/yr (rough calculation on how much he'd save from not buying store-bought eggs) keeping a few chickens alive and healthy?

thanks for any input.  ~N~

nora

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2015, 04:26:26 PM »
First of all make sure you have a good understanding of the bird's needs in the coop and/or run before you build it. They need a perch above the height if the nesting boxes, a lip on nesting boxes to keep material in etc etc..

The economics of chicken owning in my experience make it not worth doing. It will depend of course on how cheaply you can source their food and other requirements. They need four birds to give two dozen eggs a week, and these are best economiccaly to be bought at point of lay, so when they are about 20 weeks old.

And eggs are seasonal, so no eggs in winter unless new birds are sought and managed properly to produce eggs in the short days.  They need proper layer feed to provide adequate protein which can be bought in bulk which makes it cheaper, about 100-150g per bird per day. As well as access to small stones for grit, and a separate calcium source also like oyster shell but these are fairly cheap and they don't eat much of them. The bedding for the coop and nesting boxes works best if it is a thick layer of wood shavings which can be sourced free in some areas if you have afurniture maker or woodmill near. Water and food can be given in plastic containers, food twice a day as much as they will eat, and water continuously.

But the joy of the companionship of the birds, and the bright orange yolks you get from giving them greens to eat, and the freshness of a newly laid poached egg on hot buttered toast, well maybe that makes it all worthwhile...

Rural

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2015, 05:32:36 PM »
They also live much longer than they lay. If you're not willing to kill and eat chickens, you're buying pet chickens, not egg chickens.

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2015, 05:48:23 PM »
I've had chickens. They:

-Give you fresh eggs which are noticeably better than store-bought eggs
-Make amazing fertilizer for gardens
-Are nice/funny pets to have
-Eat pests in the yard
-Are prime targets of raccoons, coyotes, cats and dogs
-Give you some meat if you want to go down that route

There may be a small economic benefit to owning them (and there might not) but I wouldn't get them for that benefit.

Be sure you are allowed to have them, check your city's municipal code.

BooksAreNerdy

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2015, 06:34:10 PM »
Our hens lay through winter was we put a small light bulb out there and plug it in from 5-9pm in winter. This added light keeps us in eggs.

MrsPete

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2015, 06:52:47 PM »
I've had chickens.  They're not a great deal of work, but unless you eat LOTS of eggs, you probably won't save money:

- Yes, you can make a coop from pretty much nothing.  You can cut holes in the end of the plastic bins.  You can use drawers from an old dresser.
- Yes, if you put a light bulb (or lantern, though that brings in some unacceptable risks) in their coop, you will get eggs all year long.
- Hens are much more docile than roosters, and if you skip the rooster you have no chance of encountering a fertilized egg.
- You'll need to protect your chickens.  Many critters want to eat them. 
- Yes, they will live longer than they will lay.  Have a plan in place.
- You will have NO insects in your back yard.
- Look into building a chicken tractor.  Very useful. 
- Chickens will eat your leftovers -- a bit of rice, some leftover veggies, moldy bread -- but never give them eggs (or allow broken eggs to lie in their yard) or they may decide they like the taste of eggs, and then you'll never have another one.
- In addition to leftovers, bugs and weeds, they will need some layer feed. 
- The shells of the eggs you collect will be thicker than store-bought eggs, but I don't think they're all that different in taste -- some other people think differently. 


MsPeacock

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 07:16:50 PM »
Just gave away my 5 chickens after having them for 5 years. All the points PPs made are correct. They are nice to have around, and they are cute, and they will scratch around in your garden (tearing up all your plants in the process). Their feed will likely attract mice or mice, which will increase your food cost and give you a new problem to solve. Raccoon and other critters love to eat chicken and will spend quite a bit of effort looking for ways to get into the coop. They get in, kill 1 or all of your hens, and then you remodify the coop to prevent that means of entry. (That cycle is endlessly repeated as long as you have chickens). The water freezes in the winter so you either need a heated water bowl or the ability to switch out their water a couple times per day. They poop in their water, so it needs changing frequently anyhow. Dogs will also chase and kill your chickens. Your neighbors will not like it if they live close and you decide to get a rooster. Pullets can take weeks to months before they start laying. You can feed them kitchen scraps to supplement their diet, and they will love it. What they will not do    is save you money on eggs. Their eggs are delicious - and if you want chickens - try them - but don't do it for any financial advantage.

sunshine

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 07:27:47 PM »
I've had chickens. They:

-Give you fresh eggs which are noticeably better than store-bought eggs
-Make amazing fertilizer for gardens
-Are nice/funny pets to have
-Eat pests in the yard
-Are prime targets of raccoons, coyotes, cats and dogs
-Give you some meat if you want to go down that route

There may be a small economic benefit to owning them (and there might not) but I wouldn't get them for that benefit.

Be sure you are allowed to have them, check your city's municipal code.

All of this but we never ate them. They were fun pets but didn't save us any $. In their long life span they cost me more than I benefited in eggs. Had we had the heart to eat them and they hadn't died of old age it may have been different.

MayDay

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 07:29:56 PM »
We used to be perfectly happy eating costco organic eggs.  Now we live in a small town, surrounded by lots of rural chicken keeping sorts, and I am hooked on fresh eggs from chickens eating a variety of interesting bugs and food scraps. 

So whenever we move to a house that will allow for a coop, we will likely get chickens.  I'm not expecting a financial advantage, but I hope I can build the coop for close to nothing (finding free materials) and feed them lots of scraps and yard bugs, and at least not lose money. 

Friends  that have tracked their chicken cost lose money selling for 4$ a dozen, and that doesn't include any fancy organic food or anything, just regular feed.  It does include losing birds to predators :(.

We currently buy from H's coworker who sells for an insanely low 2.50 a dozen, but she can't always supply us with enough. 

I'll find someone who wants to eat stew chicken when they stop laying.  We don't eat meat, just the eggs, but I don't mind someone else eating them.  I'll have to find a butcher, too, though, because no way am I doing that.  So I may end upaying someone to take them, effectively.  Still cheaper than years and years of feed though. 

jmusic

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 08:31:12 PM »
Another thing to keep in mind is to check your local laws/ordinances.  For example, San Diego allows chickens but not roosters, number depending on size of your lawn.  Norfolk (I'm military, so I'm moving there) is much more restrictive.  They require review of coop plans & permit (total $75) and they require you to have a 10k sqft lot as well (which only about 1% of the properties in the city qualify for!)...

Booritocat

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2015, 08:56:36 PM »
Before deciding on getting chickens go to the local library and read all you can on their care.  Make sure you know how to deal with common chicken diseases and disorders, vent stuck eggs, picking, etc.  Also know how to protect the birds from local predators like skunks, owls, and dogs.  Chickens can be a fun hobby and great learning project but not necessarily a money saver. 

sf56

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2015, 10:13:14 PM »
We do ducks but a lot of the same things apply. When you run the numbers it definitely doesn't look like a huge amount of savings. We have four laying ducks and using some rough breed averages we'll probably end up with about 6 to 7 dozen eggs a month. Discounting all the setup costs we spend about $28 a month on organic feed. We're also feeding two drakes because we would like to make more ducks in the future. So on the better end of average we're talking $4 a dozen for organic ducks eggs. That's with partial yarding and partial free ranging depending on the day and circumstances. That alone is worth it for us because we know the source and they are being treated well. It's hard to compare that directly to chicken eggs you'd get in the store as duck eggs are a lot larger in size and the labeling of eggs is so misleading.

The other side is the work involved and commitment to the process. If you don't want to butcher animals I would not go down this track. If you ever hatch the eggs you will end up with a bunch of boys. Once they stop laying you end up with a bunch of "pet" girls. Pretty much no one wants to deal with boys or hens that don't lay anymore. In my opinion ducks are about 10x cuter than chickens and still no one wants these animals if they aren't paying their own food bill. So you need to either commit to taking care of these guys through out their natural life or butcher them. I've only had to do five so far but it's a bummer every time. The one upside is... you get a duck dinner! Heritage breed duck is a pricey treat I would likely never pay for in a restaurant, but it makes for an interesting dinner party.

Personally I was interested in the total package. I like building things so I enjoyed the time time putting together their fortress house. We love ducks and their personalities in general so we wanted to have them in our yard. I wanted my son to experience raising ducklings and all that's involved there. Lastly I wanted the experience of raising my own food just to see if I could do it. I could, but I'm not sure I would ever be able to move on to mammals.

To answer the OP more directly, yes I think you can keep some chickens alive and healthy for less than $300 a year if the bottom line is your only goal. Skip organic food, feed more scraps, sprout barley, etc. That being said, even if you get it down to $240, you're only saving 20% over the store bought eggs. That's not a lot of saving for all the hassle and time involved. You've got to have some interest beyond the money for it to make any sense.

backyardfeast

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2015, 10:33:53 PM »
We love keeping chickens.  I think we pretty much break even...more or less.  We keep 12-15 hens and a rooster.  In the main laying season (spring!), we might get 10-12 eggs a day, and DH takes the extra dozen to work to sell.  We use organic feed, spend about $50/mo on it (Canada, prices extra high! :) ) and sell to a city clientele for $5/doz when free-range organic here at the grocery store are $7.50/doz.  We found our neighbours around here weren't very interested in paying $5 when they can get local, free-range non-organic in this rural community for $3.5, but we do fine when taking our eggs to our more urban work settings.

So in peak laying season, which lasts for a couple of months (mid-Feb - mid-April), we're rolling in eggs, even giving them away to anyone we can, just to move them along.  Then, in late spring, our heritage hens decide they really want to hatch out chicks (they go "broody").  From then until fall, we have at least 2 hens on strike from laying rotating in and out of the "chicken jail" where we try to re-program them to go back to laying.  We also will sometimes get some hatching eggs and hatch out a new batch of chicks to keep ourselves in relatively young, productive hens.  So through the summer, between broodiness, heat, and the older age of a component of our flock, we might get 6-7 eggs/day from our flock of 12-15. 

Then, come late fall (Oct-Dec), those hens more than 1 year old go through a molt, replacing all their feathers.  It's a very entertaining process!  But the hens don't lay while they're molting.  So production goes down again (although sometimes there's a few weeks back up to peak production between the end of the broody season and the beginning of the molting rotation), maybe 5-6 eggs/day.

As the days get shorter, many people use lights in the coop to keep production up; we don't bother.  Young hens lay reasonably well through the first winter, so we just get by with 1-3 eggs/day in the winter, and enjoy them ourselves.  Come the longer days of late January, like now, we're back up to 3-5 day, and are just starting to sell a dozen or two a week again.

I did track my eggs/sales for a year or so, just to see what the numbers said.  I think they basically worked out to us getting most of our eggs for free, or certainly less than we would pay for them otherwise.  That does NOT include the coop or other infrastructure; that's going by feed costs only.

Keeping chickens, besides being fun, has been an excellent lesson in working with living systems and why economics are tricky with them.  On paper, it's a pretty simple calculation of x number of birds= x number of eggs, but in practice there are a million unexpected variables.  We cull and eat our stewing hens, as well as any extra roosters we hatch out as we replace our older birds.  We were vegetarian when we started on this journey, but soon it became clear to us that if we were raising birds for eggs, it only made sense for us to eat them as well--that's the way the system operates. (This doesn't mean any specific person has to eat their own birds, of course).  At least one of our hens, though, we have decided is a pet, and she will live out her life with us regardless of her laying.  Her name is Hen. ;)

As a last note, there are two of us and we only really eat 1 doz or so eggs a week.  So this was never something that was going to save us a ton of $.  That said, chicken keeping has been part of an amazing journey of buying less and food at the grocery store, and it's amazing how much our habits have changed over the last 4 years that way.  It's an enriching process in many ways--some even monetary. :)

backyardfeast

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2015, 10:37:29 PM »
Just wanted to add that this forum's own NWEdible has a great blog post on this topic: http://www.nwedible.com/2013/05/you-absolutely-should-not-get-backyard-chickens.html .  And she has lots of other good chicken info on her blog; just look under the Chickens tab at the top of the page.


somepissedoffman

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 10:52:47 PM »
The girlfriend and I had chickens when we owned a house.  They're pretty awesome.  Pets + food production.  And they're much less clingy than a dog.  Or a child.

We didn't track feed expenses too closely, but it was low-to-mid-hundreds a year for about a dozen chickens.  Which is a LOT of eggs.  We let them run around the whole yard though (1/4 acre), so they found a lot of bugs and stuff.  Feed cost goes up if they can't run around and find bugs.

I think our coop and run cost about $200 to build, and we utilized a lot of recycled material.

Try to get a sense of what the local predators are, and optimize the coop/run accordingly.  Hawks,foxes etc....

BooksAreNerdy

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2015, 07:09:36 AM »
As far as predator proofing goes, we did a layer of 1/4" hardware cloth on the inside AND outside of every window and ventilation opening. The run is wrapped completely in hardware cloth, its even buried in an 'apron' underground around the whole coop. The whole thing is built like fort Knox.

We live on 20 acres butting up to a state park and have never lost a hen in 2 years.

If you worry about critters in their food, just build a solidly latching box to store their waterproof feed bucket inside the predator proofed coop. If mice get in, the hens will probably eat them.


AllChoptUp

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2015, 07:34:13 AM »
^^^  Now this is how you do it.  No midnight slaughters, no worries. 

Zombie Burger

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2015, 07:47:22 AM »
The predator people forget to mention are mosquitoes, if you have them in your area. They will drive roosting chickens crazy unless you can find a way to keep them out, or stock up on permethrin.

MsPeacock

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2015, 07:55:29 AM »
As far as predator proofing goes, we did a layer of 1/4" hardware cloth on the inside AND outside of every window and ventilation opening. The run is wrapped completely in hardware cloth, its even buried in an 'apron' underground around the whole coop. The whole thing is built like fort Knox.

We live on 20 acres butting up to a state park and have never lost a hen in 2 years.

If you worry about critters in their food, just build a solidly latching box to store their waterproof feed bucket inside the predator proofed coop. If mice get in, the hens will probably eat them.

The problem I had was that rats burrowed under the buried hardware cloth and ate the food out of the feeders. I didn't have any problem keeping the rats out of the stored feed. I think there were also mice - but I didn't see as much evidence of them. The hardware cloth over/under/around was effective at keeping out the larger predators.

NonprofitER

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2015, 08:01:36 AM »
We have chickens as well (7 right now, but we've had up to 12).

We also pay for organic feed, which costs $35 USD/ month.  We also buy a bale of hay or pine shavings for the coop about twice a year (we use fallen leaves in the fall as well because they are free) which costs another $20 or so.

We also sell eggs to co-workers, maybe a couple dozen a week for $3/dozen.  We're probably break even, if you exempt the amount we've spent on the coop/ run.  Our chickens are quite fancy and live in Fort Knox to prevent their status as dinner for hawks/ raccoons. 



nereo

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2015, 08:52:00 AM »
Thanks everyone for all the input thus far. 
As I noted in my OP, I'm just 'helping out' with the construction and design phase, my friend will be doing the day-to-day care.  He had chickens growing up, so he's used to their daily care, but since he never had to pay for them the topic of whether he'd loose money or break even came up.  Since members here often focus on the financial bottom line, I thought it was a good question to ask - but he's charging ahead regardless of whether he'll loose a few hundred$ each year.

A few questions/points:
1) Chicken coops are permitted on his property
2) I'm planning a 'run' from the coop.  The simplest way will to have it run along his fence-line.  If we dont' turn the corner it will be about 30' x 4' (120sft).  Would that be sufficient for 6 chickens?  Alternatively I turn the corner and extend it a long ways - when does increasing the size of a run become no longer worth it? Note: we're building the run so they can be outside and protected while he's at work.
3) The chickens will definitely be consumed in the end.  Actually that's one aspect I'm excited about, as I have lots of provinçial recipes that call for older, tougher birds you cant get at the supermarket.
4) Mosquitos - how on earth do you keep those out?  We certainly get them in July

all I can think of right now - thanks for the input

AllChoptUp

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2015, 09:04:02 AM »
Our girls lived next to a swamp in Virginia...didn't seem to have a problem with mosquitos.

Jack

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2015, 09:32:17 AM »
Just wanted to add that this forum's own NWEdible has a great blog post on this topic: http://www.nwedible.com/2013/05/you-absolutely-should-not-get-backyard-chickens.html .  And she has lots of other good chicken info on her blog; just look under the Chickens tab at the top of the page.

I found this quote particularly interesting:

Quote
There is a local urban farming message board that is filled – filled – with people trying to give away their three year old chicken to a “good home.”  Are you kidding me? You own the chicken. Your home is a good home. And once it’s not, your soup pot is a good soup pot. I once joked to a good friend that I could stock my freezer for the entire year off no-longer-laying hens being given away free “to a good home.”

Perhaps the smart thing to do is not bother with raising chickens yourself, but to be willing to "take care of" people's old hen problems. Free meat, and maybe you could even demand some eggs in return for you taking the hen!

nereo

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2015, 09:42:03 AM »

Perhaps the smart thing to do is not bother with raising chickens yourself, but to be willing to "take care of" people's old hen problems. Free meat, and maybe you could even demand some eggs in return for you taking the hen!
interesting concept.  Somehow I think the people giving away chickens "to a good home" wouldn't like me dispatching them and turning them into stew.  As for my friend, as I've said he really wants to raise chickens, and that's what he's going to do.  I/we've just been curious about the economic side of raising them.

trailrated

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2015, 09:50:13 AM »
My neighbors have chickens and they bring us over eggs every once in a while and they are noticeably better than the store bought ones. Unfortunately a while back one of the chickens got over our fence and the dogs killed it. I felt bad letting the neighbor know but he had a good laugh and said, "It was a good lesson, I have been watching the chickens since and they won't even go near the fence anymore."

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2015, 11:52:55 AM »
We ran the numbers a few months ago and figured that the cost of our three chickens came out to $1.70/dozen eggs. This is not factoring in benefits like bug control and fertilizer, which is hard to quantify. Around here, a case medium, regular, no-frills eggs from the grocery store can be had for $0.99/dozen, BUT you can't get organic, free range eggs for less than $2.50/dozen. So we are saving when it comes to comparable quality.

nereo

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2015, 12:13:26 PM »
We ran the numbers a few months ago and figured that the cost of our three chickens came out to $1.70/dozen eggs. This is not factoring in benefits like bug control and fertilizer, which is hard to quantify. Around here, a case medium, regular, no-frills eggs from the grocery store can be had for $0.99/dozen, BUT you can't get organic, free range eggs for less than $2.50/dozen. So we are saving when it comes to comparable quality.
That's awesome!  We can't ever seem to find eggs for <$2, dozen, and typically eggs of any quality go for $3 and up. It's an experiment in progress but it'd be nice to make it all cost-neutral.  Good to hear someone else comes out ahead.

nereo

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2015, 06:04:04 AM »
Edited to add: to answer the question re space requirements, opinions vary on backyard chickens.com but general rule of thumb is 4 sq ft per chicken in the coop, and 10 sq ft per chicken in the run (more run space is always better).
Ok - I've read that anywhere from 10-20sq-ft/chicken is a good rule of thumb, and the run we are planning will give the chickens around 20 sq-ft/bird... but what i'm trying to get at is, when does more area stop yielding any noticeable benefit?  There has to be some 'law of diminishing returns' concept at work here.

For me this is a practical question - we could turn the corner or bump the run width to be wider than 4'.  Either would allow us to double or even triple their run.  We could give 200 sq-ft/chicken if we wanted, but at an added cost (extra supplies, more time and widening it would start to look ugly in his particular yard).
hoping someone could chime in and say something like "well 10sq-ft is good, 20sq-ft is better, but once you get above XXsq-ft, it's not going to help all that much."

AllChoptUp

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2015, 08:42:01 AM »
The thing is chickens will denude a typical run in a few weeks, like down to just bare dirt.  Also poop will accumulate because they'll spend all day outside in the run.  The more space they have the happier and healthier they'll be.  It's easier on the owner to have a big, spacious run because poop will have a thinner spread and will dry faster.  Also gives you room to put big tree branchs in for the birds to perch on and keeps them occupied.  So go as big as you can.

Also people inevitably buy more chickens than they originally planned :)

MsPeacock

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2015, 10:12:03 AM »
The thing is chickens will denude a typical run in a few weeks, like down to just bare dirt.  Also poop will accumulate because they'll spend all day outside in the run.  The more space they have the happier and healthier they'll be.  It's easier on the owner to have a big, spacious run because poop will have a thinner spread and will dry faster.  Also gives you room to put big tree branchs in for the birds to perch on and keeps them occupied.  So go as big as you can.

Also people inevitably buy more chickens than they originally planned :)

And if the run is smallish you have to get in and shovel out the poop more often. When I let my 4 chickens have the run of my yard they pretty much stripped it bare, however - of grass and the plants in the flower beds. So, for me it was not ideal to let them run all over the yard.

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2015, 05:30:24 PM »
We bought chain link 6ft high panels from a farm store on sale at $75 for a 10ft one up to $90 for the ones with a gate.

This seems to work well as the panels surround the coop.  We have about 240sq feet.  I have it separated into two sections, so that I can clean the coop and separate them into the other area.

We also free range them when we can watch them.  In summer the grass is fine but in winter the ground is bare.  I hear you can put down hay to stop this.

I also bought some chicken wire and ran it overhead of the panels in the coop area to prevent hawk attacks.

My total cost of coop plus pen might be around $900 so it isnt a money maker, but the chain link should last a long time.  The chain link gates are nice for entry into the area.

nereo

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2015, 07:37:10 AM »
ok - it sounds like chickens will always benefit some from more space, but what I am really after is a sense of the cost-benefit curve.   At ~120 sqft there will be plenty of space to put in branches and other things for them to climb on.  We could extend it to 200sqft without a huge cost in materials or athetics, but going from 200 to 500' would require a lot more supplies, more work, and would start to impede his view from his kitchen windows.  So if he gets the maximum 6 chickens, would having a 500sqft run really make them 'happier and healthier' than a 200sqft run?  Mathmatically, at some point doubling the size of the run won't make any difference...

From what Allchoptup says, it seems like the chickens will denude the lawn regardless of size, which in a way argues that we shouldn't extend the run across his entire property.  Cleaning up a 200' area seems much more manageable than a 500' one. 
Just fyi, my friend grew up on an old farmhouse in the midwest where their chickens roamed mostly free on their 18 acre property, so this 'chicken-run' concept is a bit new to us both.

3okirb

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2015, 08:38:47 AM »
I have a side gig with chickens.  Most people want to get rid of chickens when they quit laying, but have guilt involved (or are not willing to do the dirty.)  So, I raise egg laying chickens for people.  The way it works is they can buy a chicken, or trade an older (past laying prime) chicken and get the chicks for half price.  I then slaughter the chickens and donate the meat to a local soup kitchen.

I make a little money, struggling people get to eat fresh meat, and people get rid of their old birds without the dirty work.  It's a win/win in my opinion.  Granted, there's not a ton of money, but it's kind of fun to give back and provide a necessary service for people.


nereo

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2015, 09:16:59 AM »
I have a side gig with chickens.  Most people want to get rid of chickens when they quit laying, but have guilt involved (or are not willing to do the dirty.)  So, I raise egg laying chickens for people.  The way it works is they can buy a chicken, or trade an older (past laying prime) chicken and get the chicks for half price.  I then slaughter the chickens and donate the meat to a local soup kitchen.

I make a little money, struggling people get to eat fresh meat, and people get rid of their old birds without the dirty work.  It's a win/win in my opinion.  Granted, there's not a ton of money, but it's kind of fun to give back and provide a necessary service for people.
hey man, that's freakin' awesome.  Good for you!  Philanthropy on a local scale.
As a previous poster mentioned - there seems to be a huge amount of 'older chicken looking for a good home' postings out there.
As for me and my friend, we have no problem humanely dispatching the chicken once it's reached the end of it's working life.  Hopefully we can do it extremely quickly, and then stew meat for me, productive chickens for him and happy lives for the chickens (much better than they'd get from big-ag poultry farms).

backyardfeast

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2015, 06:03:54 PM »
Nereo, just to get back to your question of, is it worth going to 500 sq'; I don't think in this case it is.  If 6 chickens have a good big run, they will be fine.  This won't be a free-range situation, and that can be just fine.  Personally, I've found that what I really wanted to do after a couple of years of having chickens was to have one adequate run, and then be able to rotate them through some grassy areas now and again, but not constantly, so they don't turn it into a muck pit and ruin the whole yard.  We've actually found that once the hens are full-grown and laying, if they are heavy heritage breeds, a simple 3-4' high roll of chicken wire fence can be used really effectively to keep them in their designated "paddocks".  The wire is relatively easy to move around in a flexible way.  So over the years, we've added little gates to our main run, so that chickens can get out into these other areas as we permit.

I think the best thing is do build your reasonable run, and then see how it goes.  You'll (your friend) will get the hang of things and get new ideas to "improve" things as the years go by.

Have fun!

nereo

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2015, 09:45:41 AM »
Nereo, just to get back to your question of, is it worth going to 500 sq'; I don't think in this case it is.  If 6 chickens have a good big run, they will be fine.  This won't be a free-range situation, and that can be just fine.  Personally, I've found that what I really wanted to do after a couple of years of having chickens was to have one adequate run, and then be able to rotate them through some grassy areas now and again, but not constantly, so they don't turn it into a muck pit and ruin the whole yard.  We've actually found that once the hens are full-grown and laying, if they are heavy heritage breeds, a simple 3-4' high roll of chicken wire fence can be used really effectively to keep them in their designated "paddocks".  The wire is relatively easy to move around in a flexible way.  So over the years, we've added little gates to our main run, so that chickens can get out into these other areas as we permit.

I think the best thing is do build your reasonable run, and then see how it goes.  You'll (your friend) will get the hang of things and get new ideas to "improve" things as the years go by.

Have fun!
Thanks for your input - I think we'll start with the ~200sqft run and go from there. It will still give far more than the recommended minimum 10-20sqft/chicken, so I feel good about that, and it will be simpler to implement in his yard (no turns, semi-hidden from his windows).  I like your idea of allowing for a modular design so that chickens can have 'soirees' into other parts of the yard without completely tearing everything to pieces.  And of course you are right that we'll modify it as time goes by and we find thing that could be improved.

since this is winter it's all in the design/planning phase.  i'll post back once we get into ti and update everyone of my progress
thanks all!

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2015, 10:41:44 AM »
I have a side gig with chickens.  Most people want to get rid of chickens when they quit laying, but have guilt involved (or are not willing to do the dirty.)  So, I raise egg laying chickens for people.  The way it works is they can buy a chicken, or trade an older (past laying prime) chicken and get the chicks for half price.  I then slaughter the chickens and donate the meat to a local soup kitchen.

I make a little money, struggling people get to eat fresh meat, and people get rid of their old birds without the dirty work.  It's a win/win in my opinion.  Granted, there's not a ton of money, but it's kind of fun to give back and provide a necessary service for people.

Do you need to get a USDA inspection certificate for donating to the soup kitchen?  I often wondered about that.  I fill my freezer with chickens, ducks and roosters people no longer want, and I do volunteer at the soup kitchen from time to time. 

3okirb

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2015, 11:35:30 AM »
I have a side gig with chickens.  Most people want to get rid of chickens when they quit laying, but have guilt involved (or are not willing to do the dirty.)  So, I raise egg laying chickens for people.  The way it works is they can buy a chicken, or trade an older (past laying prime) chicken and get the chicks for half price.  I then slaughter the chickens and donate the meat to a local soup kitchen.

I make a little money, struggling people get to eat fresh meat, and people get rid of their old birds without the dirty work.  It's a win/win in my opinion.  Granted, there's not a ton of money, but it's kind of fun to give back and provide a necessary service for people.

Do you need to get a USDA inspection certificate for donating to the soup kitchen?  I often wondered about that.  I fill my freezer with chickens, ducks and roosters people no longer want, and I do volunteer at the soup kitchen from time to time.

Talk to your local soup kitchen and see if they accept meat donations.  I can't remember the law, but as long as it's not commercial and you're donating, I think it's ok.

AllChoptUp

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2015, 09:17:46 AM »
Reading this thread makes me really miss my girls.  When I retire it's going to be ON.

Nereo, please post pics when you are done (or in progress)...always fun to see what people come up with!

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2015, 04:11:15 PM »
I have chickens, nine of them at present although the law allows up to fifteen.  They've been cash flow positive for me since I can sell all my surplus eggs at the office.  I've got more orders than I can fill, and can sell all my surplus (which is the same fortunate situation that I have for my garden).

Overall, the poop hasn't been a problem because I rake or shovel it up, let it mellow in the sun for six months to a year, and then it makes the most unbelievable fertilizer.  My garden is massive-- about 400 square feet under cultivation in raised beds.  So, in addition to the cash from the surplus eggs, which more than covers the cost of birdie kibble to supplement the table scraps, I get fertilizer that would otherwise be extremely expensive.

GetItRight

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2015, 05:48:40 PM »
Check the local and state tax laws. With enough acreage and animals you may be able to have the land taxed at a lower rate as a farm. Could make it worth the extra effort even if it's a wash on eggs and only yields occasional meat.

SailorGirl

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2015, 09:42:38 PM »
I had the best chicken situation for a few months.  Fostered the birds for a neighbor while he rebuilt his coop.  He bought most of the food and supplies and I got the eggs.  I have enough eggs to last me until mid summer.  For free!

2Birds1Stone

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2015, 08:16:01 AM »
I like the idea of homesteading, economically not sure how viable the chicken coop idea is.

Eggs are very cheap, we eat a ton of eggs, About 4 dozen a week. I buy eggs for about $1.35/dozen.

MicroRN

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2015, 01:30:16 PM »
For me, a lot of having my own chickens is from a humane management standpoint.  Battery cage laying hens probably have the worst life of any commercial livestock.  I minored in animal & poultry science in college, which included a lot of trips to various production and processing facilities (ranging from Polyface Farm to a Tyson poultry plant), and I've felt guilty about commercially produced eggs since.  I have a pretty utilitarian approach to livestock, so it takes a lot to make me feel guilty.  I usually try to find someone selling extra eggs locally or hit up the farmer's markets.  Now I have the ability to have my own chickens.  They have plenty of space, fresh air, and the ability to act like animals.  When they're spent, they'll get a quick end and go into our freezer.  We've spent far more money on chickens, feed, coop, run, etc than we'll ever recoup on eggs, but there are some other benefits.

The eggs are some of the best I've ever had.  The yolks are enormous, bright orange, and thick.  I love seeing the hens happily scratching around the yard, or coming running when I bring them scraps.  They take care of the odd scraps of food that were getting thrown away. I don't have a problem processing poultry, so we'll get meat out of too, and I know that meat was raised humanely as well.  If you look at it strictly as a money issue, chickens are usually not worth keeping yourself vs buying eggs at the store. If the other aspects matter to you, then it may be worth it.  They also need care if you take a trip, so that has to be factored in.       

bognish

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2015, 02:01:11 PM »
We got 5 chicks last April. Once full grown they eat a $20lb bag of feed every 5 weeks. If I average 3 eggs per week per bird I break even at $3 per dozen. We just started tracking the number of eggs at new years but I would guess we do a bit better than 3 eggs per week for a full year. Like others we do chickens for pets, fertilizer, fresh, eggs and little kids teaching lesson. Once I factor in the coop, run and other costs we are not making money.

When we have extras my kids sell them door to door in the neighborhood for $0.25 per egg. That's easy enough math to be challenging for my 6 year old, the neighbors are happy for a good deal on fresh eggs and I don't have to worry about an allowance. Since we live on a dead end the lemonade stand last summer was a bust and I would pay any price to keep my daughter from needing Girl Scouts or school fund raisers to get door to door sales experience.

We have a small fortress run and coop. They can stay in there all day and night without worry of predators. Its nice not to have to let them in and out of a coop to the run at sun rise and sun set each day. Most days we let them our to the yard for a few hours for bug hunting and eating greens. They had full access the first year, but this spring they are getting a smaller pen to keep them out of the veggie garden. Since the small run is secure, covered and has a high roost the birds sleep there most nights. I would only put them in the coop this winter if it got under 20 degrees or was windy and snowing.

startingsmall

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Re: the economics of a chicken coop
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2015, 09:34:29 AM »
We have three Black Australorps in a mobile chicken ark like these:  http://catawbacoops.com/

The perk of the ark is that you can move it around the yard (we try to move ours every 2-3 days, though realistically it sometimes sits for up to a week depending on weather and our schedules) so there's no poop shoveling to do and it's adding natural fertilizer to the yard.  I LOVE the eggs from our girls and now really loathe the flavorless store-bought eggs.

From a financial standpoint, though,  I think we probably spend more than if we were buying eggs at the store.  (My husband buys their feed, so I don't have an exact idea of the cost at the moment - it's built into our 'pets' budget.)  We get 2-3 eggs per day during their laying season, but we still have to buy eggs during the 3 months/year that they stop laying.  They're only about 2 years old right now, so they're in their prime, but their egg output will go down as they age and yet we'll probably still keep them as pets. 

I definitely view our chickens as a luxury, not as a means of saving money.    Still, they're fun to have and I love the fact that our 2.5 year old is growing up understanding at least a little bit about where food comes from.    (This photo shows my daughter and the chickens when they were all MUCH smaller, but you get the idea!)

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!