Author Topic: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...  (Read 149064 times)

Laura33

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #350 on: April 13, 2018, 02:01:20 PM »
@Laura33 practically needs her own thread of awesome posts.

Aww, thanks.  The side benefit of having lived long enough to screw up many, many times.  You know what they say, if you can't be a good example, at least be a horrible warning.  ;-)

And rear-wheel drive is totally awesome and worth pursuing.  :-)

RWD

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #351 on: April 13, 2018, 02:42:09 PM »
@Laura33 practically needs her own thread of awesome posts.

Aww, thanks.  The side benefit of having lived long enough to screw up many, many times.  You know what they say, if you can't be a good example, at least be a horrible warning.  ;-)

And rear-wheel drive is totally awesome and worth pursuing.  :-)

Haha, but don't sell yourself short. Anyone can make a multitude of life mistakes but it's a rare talent to be able to consistently articulate that into useful (and not condescending) advice for others.

:)

RetiredAt63

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #352 on: May 14, 2018, 07:16:19 AM »
I think this wins best post of the day today:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/just-some-ended-relationship-venting/50/

Besides, if you think men are going to stop being pigs anytime soon. . . well come on lets be realistic here. We are who we are.
Okay, so you are sexist against both men and women. I think that's a pretty bad thing to be! Lots of men aren't pigs, and lots of women aren't emotional crazyheads. Why not just... stop making bad generalities that offend people? There's plenty of room to give good advice without insulting entire swaths of the population.

Also, I want to address one of your early posts, and I hope that at least if this doesn't convince you to stop, it may help some fencesitters with their mindset. This:
Quote
Want to spend a few minutes being critical of men?
is not a good way of dealing with sexism. Not just because it's stupid to tear down whole genders, but because of the fact that overt and covert misogynism in our history has led to power dynamics that disadvantage women in numerous ways. As an analogy (albeit an extreme one), imagine that you say "black people are n*ggers" and then go on to post "hey, want to call me a cracker? I can take it!" The reason you don't care that people hate on men is specifically because you don't have to deal with that shit impacting your life in important ways the same way that women do. You can take it, not because you're this wonderful rational thick-skinned person, but because it really doesn't matter to you in a very essential way. Same thing with men who say that they can handle being catcalled (or worse, they would LOVE to be catcalled), why can't women handle it? Can you see the difference here? Can you see why this attitude is problematic?

If someone posted shit like "black people act so savage and ghetto" and then argued that most of their experiences with black people (and all of their friends' experiences) led them to this attitude, would you accept that as okay? Hopefully the answer is "hell no, that's racist as shit." Well, sorry, but your whole "women are predictable and irrational" thing is sexist as shit, no matter how you got there.

I just was reading an askreddit thread where transgendered people post how people treat them differently. Time and time again, you read that they are treated more seriously as males - FTM or MTF, doesn't matter, presenting as male gets you taken seriously in day to day encounters.  Your attitude in this thread is part of the problem that wears down at women day in and day out, in small and big ways, in our careers and personal encounters. You can brush this off, claim that we're all being too sensitive, whatever. I used to have a similar attitude. I grew out of it over time as I learned more compassion and I hope that you do too and stop insulting women with your generalizations. Even if you don't, I hope somebody reading this finds it useful.



solon

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #353 on: May 20, 2018, 06:28:16 AM »
In a discussion of the best way to spend your last six months in the office before FI, how to get revenge on annoying boss/coworkers, the best way to cause just a little bit of trouble on the way out:

1) You're already FI.
2) You're thinking about spending wasting up to the next half-year of your finite life getting some kind of payback that is theorized - not yet proven - to deliver emotional satisfaction.*
3) You are considering NOT doing any of the following options during the next few wonderful months of your life, because you will be hanging out an an office playing a game:

     -visit Yellowstone
     -restore an antique motorcycle
     -whip yourself into shape well enough to run a half-marathon
     -help a nonprofit organization that needs your skillset
     -go on a journey to reconnect with old friends and family members you've unfortunately lost touch with
     -give a few guest presentations at local high schools in struggling areas
     -scuba dive the Florida keys
     -learn Spanish by immersing yourself in Barcelona for 5 months
     -start writing your book
     -start a backyard beehive
     -finally see a classic play or movie you've never had the time for
     -put together your family's history
     -learn to sail
     -camp in the middle of nowhere, New Mexico and see how many stars there are
     -raise $10k for your favorite charity, become a rock start to a narrow group of people
     -raft the Arkansas river at the Royal Gorge, Colorado.

To me, the only answer is to burn down your vacation time to extract the fun money and then never work again. The whole point of being FI is to not be owned by a job you hate, and to even bother with getting payback means this job still means more to you than it necessarily has to. If you've nailed the Financial part, the next step is becoming truly Independent (i.e. not having your behavior affected by dipshit bosses in any way). OMY is just one manifestation. Still caring about office politics or score-keeping is another.

Think about it this way, if you had only the next six months to live, would you rather accomplish pissing off your manager until they ask HR to give you their standard termination speech or do one of the things on the list above (or your own thing)?

As for me, I'd be lying on my back under a new moon in the desert, contemplating the vastness of the galaxy with a campfire crackling nearby. The thought might cross my mind that my old company's managers, with their leased SUVs and their jealousies of executives who get to park closer to the door, will never get to experience such a moment as this. Even if they arranged a "vacation" at this exact spot (which they would never be capable of thinking they should do), their cell phones would be buzzing and work would be on their mind and the emails would be piling up and they would be pushing the experience to be completed and be over with because their time and attention to this moment is finite and going from meeting to meeting is inescapably habitual. Only you get peace. They don't. And then the thought would cross my mind that this is a petty thing to think as I'm partially encircled by clouds of tens of thousands of stars - as a tiny life on a tiny planet, present for a tiny sliver of time.

grantmeaname

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #354 on: May 20, 2018, 07:51:06 AM »
Wow.

Loren Ver

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #355 on: May 20, 2018, 04:06:06 PM »
In a discussion of the best way to spend your last six months in the office before FI, how to get revenge on annoying boss/coworkers, the best way to cause just a little bit of trouble on the way out:

1) You're already FI.
2) You're thinking about spending wasting up to the next half-year of your finite life getting some kind of payback that is theorized - not yet proven - to deliver emotional satisfaction.*
3) You are considering NOT doing any of the following options during the next few wonderful months of your life, because you will be hanging out an an office playing a game:

     -visit Yellowstone
     -restore an antique motorcycle
     -whip yourself into shape well enough to run a half-marathon
     -help a nonprofit organization that needs your skillset
     -go on a journey to reconnect with old friends and family members you've unfortunately lost touch with
     -give a few guest presentations at local high schools in struggling areas
     -scuba dive the Florida keys
     -learn Spanish by immersing yourself in Barcelona for 5 months
     -start writing your book
     -start a backyard beehive
     -finally see a classic play or movie you've never had the time for
     -put together your family's history
     -learn to sail
     -camp in the middle of nowhere, New Mexico and see how many stars there are
     -raise $10k for your favorite charity, become a rock start to a narrow group of people
     -raft the Arkansas river at the Royal Gorge, Colorado.

To me, the only answer is to burn down your vacation time to extract the fun money and then never work again. The whole point of being FI is to not be owned by a job you hate, and to even bother with getting payback means this job still means more to you than it necessarily has to. If you've nailed the Financial part, the next step is becoming truly Independent (i.e. not having your behavior affected by dipshit bosses in any way). OMY is just one manifestation. Still caring about office politics or score-keeping is another.

Think about it this way, if you had only the next six months to live, would you rather accomplish pissing off your manager until they ask HR to give you their standard termination speech or do one of the things on the list above (or your own thing)?

As for me, I'd be lying on my back under a new moon in the desert, contemplating the vastness of the galaxy with a campfire crackling nearby. The thought might cross my mind that my old company's managers, with their leased SUVs and their jealousies of executives who get to park closer to the door, will never get to experience such a moment as this. Even if they arranged a "vacation" at this exact spot (which they would never be capable of thinking they should do), their cell phones would be buzzing and work would be on their mind and the emails would be piling up and they would be pushing the experience to be completed and be over with because their time and attention to this moment is finite and going from meeting to meeting is inescapably habitual. Only you get peace. They don't. And then the thought would cross my mind that this is a petty thing to think as I'm partially encircled by clouds of tens of thousands of stars - as a tiny life on a tiny planet, present for a tiny sliver of time.

I love this request to think bigger.  Sometimes we get so caught up in what is in our face that we lose sight of everything else.

rab-bit

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #356 on: May 25, 2018, 09:50:28 AM »
Great summary of how we reached our current level of inequality in the U.S. by @Mikenost12:

A modest proposal…

  Capital in the Twenty First Century by Piketty, I believe discusses the problem being that income from capital gains/ownership have grown and multiplied faster than wages. The problem isn’t egregious CEO salaries, specialists or highly paid experts, the real issues is investment income turning society more into a system of haves and have nots, many into serfs or wage slaves. People generating much more wealth based on what they own rather then actual work, and getting tax breaks on this kind of income. While wanting us to take back democracy and have a more equitable system, I agree with what most everyone else said it also scares me to do my best to get to and maintain personal economic security.

 It isn’t necessary to especially incentivize investments, with low Capital Gain taxes, it’s already extremely rewarding and with interest rates near zero and companies flush with cash they have nothing to do with (buy competitors or stock buybacks). Low capital gains taxes, efforts to eliminate estate taxes on 12 million plus inheritences, loopholes for pass-through income, and other ways they system gets set up are just a giveaway to people that need it the least but wield the most political and economic power, exacerbating the situation.

 Solutions might include taxing capital gains at the same rate as regular income, raising rates of top income brackets back to levels of say Reagan at least, and getting the money out of politics. The idea that not allowing the ultra wealthy/corporations to contribute tens of millions of dollars regularly to politicians somehow infringes on their free speech is insane.

  Of course the government doesn't make decisions that make sense, are good for most Americans, our planet, future generations or our County strength in the future, logic or scientific fact (global warming anyone). The government's actions only make sense when view through the lens of the people paying for it, the very very very rich, not us squabling 15% or top 5%'s online feeling hurt because we worked hard and feel the article doesn't give us enough credit.

  Erosion of tax basis, declaring war on government for the past 40+ years, taking away laws protecting workers, prohibiting monopolies, priviatizing utilities, etc  have taken their toll, with targeted legislation benefiting corporations and special interests. For all the Constitutional Originalists mental gymnastics, I can’t see the Framers thinking legal bribery (Citizens United) was good for our democracy, and endorsing the current plutocracy/oligarchy.

  We can hope more of the rich are like Buffet, who says he will be giving away 99% of his wealth, Andrew Carnegie and the notion of Noblesse Oblige,  building us librarys, parks, and whatnot, that your duty as ultra wealthy is to help the serfs. I wouldn't hold my breath as it is more likely for the .001 of a percent to not be philanthropists giving away most of their dynastic wealth but instead feel extra super duper better than everyone else, like the Walton family or Koch Brothers, paying people as little as possible, influencing legistlation to further enrich themselves, with a kinda of cynical cruelty that belies a contempt for their fellow human beings,

in short, I'm gonna be smart, save, invest, work hard, help others, and well, their must be a punk band with a better way to say it but
It
 
  The system is fixable, our society was far more equitable before, just undo the policies of the past 40+ years that the elites lobbied for. Reverse engineer what they did, I fear it has to get much more unequal, with alot more suffering before people realize government can be a force for good and we get New Deal 2.0

grantmeaname

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #357 on: May 31, 2018, 07:21:32 PM »
This brilliant post from MMM resident city planner Prospector articulates quite nicely what makes a place livable for human beings. I've removed the links because this was snipped out of a journal.

Quote from: Prospector
JRA64 I am finally starting on your reply after letting questions stew for a while.

I could have stolen the title here from the Sex Pistols: "Give me convenience or give me death." An ethos which has become increasingly apparent in our cities and lifestyle in North America. And I believe it is giving us death. Between our fat and idle lifestyles, cities that operate on the model of a warehousing business (I am honestly confounded whether people are the client or the consumable in our cities - we can talk about that later), and the notion that low bid, cost-first urban designs are our MO in municipal governance, we have built places that store lives which aren't worth experiencing. In my current role I keep repeating the mantra that whatever we build, we have to put the user first, the experience second, and then build the infrastructure that supports the individuals in having experiences.

A 10-lane freeway, or "the world's longest road" is not the experience to build. The experience to build is "the worlds most beautiful drive/walk/bike ride". The experience to build is great shopping districts and sidewalk cafes and life at low speed. High speed is for trains and ferries... not for people and cities. We build freeways to facilitate commuter lifestyles which kill community and families at the expense of local jobs, a working wage, and meaningful life - regardless of the career. What is the point of the world's longest road if the road is an endless parade of noise walls (I know this is not the case, but in parts of Toulouse - and here in Toronto, all the scenery you will see from the freeway is Concrete walls).

My opinion is that we need widescale downsizing of things that we are proud to call big. Not just our "Supersized" restaurant portions, but our lives. Smaller homes, smaller vehicles, smaller careers, smaller streets, smaller stress." The precipitate of this is greater intensity of experience and greater meaning of life.

If you walk into a boulangerie in France, you will find a proprietor  who has dedicated their life to bread. There might be pizza or quiche in the display case, but not much else. You will not find milk or cheese or freezer meals. There will be a few sandwiches and some desserts, but mostly there will be bread. A huge basket of baguettes, a dozen types of fresh loafs, croissants and dinner rolls. The proprietor will talk with you in detail about the bread. How it was made, why this bread goes well with this cheese, whether it is a sandwich bread or a bread for dipping or a bread for slicing. You will leave the shop having spent 3 euros, and with an experience. This is different from running into a Loblaws, grabbing a loaf of Texas toast, and getting out as fast as you can. It is similar with cheese at the Fromagerie, with meats at the charcuterie, and so on. This is treaditional french shopping. Each of these stores would fit into a single-car garage, each supports a family 3 euros at a time, and each is a community builder. I have not seen dedicated parking for any of these shops. Most of their clients are walk-ups or are in and out so fast that the customer turnover means parking demand is limited to about 3 vehicles.

In France you can also do your shopping at "Super U" or any other "North American Style" grocery store. I thought Super U was funny because it combined a Canadian Tire with a grocery store - cooking is a gender neutral experience in France, so a grocery store that sells traditionally male toys is a thing there. (Buy a new fishing pole with your groceries!) The experience of a big store though carries forward the tradition of people serving people. There are fish and meat counters, bread still baked in-store. etc. The thing is that when all these shopping experiences are combined in one location for convenience rather than sprinkled over a block, the combined time is onerous, parking demands grow, the need for carts and buggies and juggling loads grows. Shopping becomes a chore rather than an experience. Dragging two kids and momma from section to section is painful compared to standing at a counter and asking for a croissant for J1, a baguette for the family, and that miniquiche for Momma. It all falls apart.

FWIW, there are minisupermarchees in town, but for the most part, stores like Super-U are suburban experiences... and in that space they are doing well. But the suburban experience in France isn't much different that the warehousing of families we do here. You can find the Prospy Family on Street F, house 117. Also light bulbs are in aisle K, shelf 12. One will need a car to reach, the other a shopping cart. Enroute to one you will experience noise walls. To reach the other, you will be walled in by shelfs of cans. Have I mentioned that I'm not a fan of large format retail? And yet our lives and our cities are looking more and more like a box store.

Enter the traditional old town...

Here is the street between Gare Lille Europe - the main train station of Lille - and the Lille Opera house - the main entertainment space in Lille. Can you see how wide that street is? Forget the gorgeous buildings on either side for now, lets just talk street space and priority. Note the position of the bollards.

Leave street view and measure the width of that road. I get something in the order of 25m. Now let's measure the space where cars go between the bollards. The auto realm is only 6m of that 25m cross section. one quarter of the road is allocated to cars. 75% is dedicated to "experience" other than driving. You can see that the human realm has different colours of asphalt. There is cycling space and walking space. On the edges of the road is a mingling zone where cafes and storefronts encourage pedestrians to slow even below a walking pace - greet people, browse, and live. Bikes have an option to operate as pedestrians or in the travelled lanes. This is massively different than a typical Canadian (American) downtown where the objective is throughput - for both autos and pedestrians and bikes. Here the narrow driving space is further slowed by cycling lanes. Its about experiencing the space, not about passing through it.

Now get outside the right of way and look at the footprint of the shops. Most are less than 20m across. There is massive diversity in the uses. You can sit at a cafe sipping your morning espresso and within eyesight is everything you need for your day - banks, law offices, clothing stores, etc. all within this dense, pedestrian oriented downtown. The french are in less of a rush than Americans because they don't need to rush. There is no "lost time" to driving between work and home, or from town hall to the lawyer's or from the bar to home. All the uses are combined the fabric of the city in a walkable utopia where people are prioritized above machines. But wait... that's not all.

This is the space in front of one of Lille's cathedrals. See how skinny the road is again? Same idea about cars getting 25% of the space while people get gobs of room. But the streetview shows trucks (big delivery trucks) parked in the square where the umbrellas and cafe tables are in the aerial imagery. What sorcery is this? What's even more bizarre are the time of day restrictions on the space in the street signs (Pedestrian Zone - road closed except for authorized vehicles and deliveries from 07h00-11h00). Here's an amazing use of space.

Early in the morning the delivery trucks rumble up to the square, park and begin running supplies to the shops using dollies and hand carts. This is incredible to see because around here with our mega-stores, every time we try to dedicate space to people the cry goes out of "how will deliveries be made?" I'll tell you how - when your shop is only 20' X 40', and you live above it, you can stock it quickly by hand. Similarly, when your blocks are only 100' long, you can drag your trash can a block to the square where the truck will come pick it up.

Once the morning deliveries are done, the trucks rumble away and the square becomes littered with market stalls. People pop up selling bread and flowers and milk. Traditionally in France you get these supplies daily (even the Super-U only sells 1 litre bottles of milk, although you can buy a 6-pack of them). The market stalls evaporate around 10:00, and the square sits quiet until lunch time when the market stalls all get replaced by patio sets from the restaurants surrounding the square. At this point, for the rest of the day the whole of the square turns into a massive food court with the  restaurants surrounding it serving customers. You can buy your lunch at any business and sit at any table and mingle. And the French love to mingle in this setting, sipping wine, smoking, and talking. The space was vibrant and full no matter when we passed by. After about 7:00 PM, there were no tables available and people were sitting on the steps of the cathedral to eat. This was tourists meeting locals. Neighbours checking in on each other. Shopkeepers taking a break. This was different from "Big Box Neighbourhoods" where people are stored in their little 50X100' lots, bragging about the size of their Irises. (What is the plural of iris?)

<Incidentally, apparently the cathedral steps in Lille are an excellent makeout spot, and you don't even need to worry about being discreet about boinking on them. Also, the steps do not discriminate based on race or sexual orientation.On top of the many amorous couples, we saw no less than three different couples engaged in copulation on three different occasions, although to be fair, the two dudes who waved and smiled as we passed by were tucked away in an alcove as opposed to the straight couples who just went for it out in the open.>

And the cars passing through the square - well the loiterers couldn't be assed to have them there. You are stupid to own a car in Lille. Once a loud car slammed to the ground sat at the edge of the square holding up traffic so it could show off. After much revving of engine and booming of music, its driver decided to pop the clutch and show what an amazing acceleration his vehicle had. Dozens of people rose from their seats to take photos of the car as it sped through the narrow street-space. Afterwards they compared photos to see who had the best shot... of the license plate. A handful of photos and accompanying video were sent immediate to les gendarmes. Everyone in the square gave the driver the stinkeye.

Those who do bring cars to town are not only faced with impossibly tight streets to drive, they also have a dearth of parking, and are forced to pay for it. Remember that space allocated to pedestrians? Well it is protected in the already narrow alleyways too. This is the street our AirBnb was on. It is a single lane, 1-way street. See the parking and protected space? yeah, we didn't even bother trying to drive there. And we never needed to. Everything could be walked in under 10 minutes. Now I'm back home facing a 10-minute DRIVE to get groceries. Is my life more rushed for it? You bet. Every minute spent driving takes 3 minutes to support - between maintenance, fuels and financing the habit you spend you life supporting the car you use to buy time in your life.

Anyway, I've neglected the kids too long. I need to go get groceries and feed them. I'll write more later. Maybe a book. This got long.

englishteacheralex

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #358 on: May 31, 2018, 11:25:40 PM »
Wow, reminds me of James Kunstler's books about city planning. Some Wendell Berry and Michael Pollan thrown in there, too. As a person who spent a year in France 20 years ago, I salute that post.

Linea_Norway

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #359 on: June 04, 2018, 06:45:48 AM »
Okay.... here goes

You seem to be missing the most important point of this whole thing...
This is about living your best life.

When you are high income, it’s very easy to fall into a logical trap that your best life includes expensive luxuries because you “can afford them”. Except that what you “can afford” is completely predicated on how much you want to work, not what you can earn in a given year.

It all depends on what your yard-sticks of value are.
What matters most to you? And what does that cost?
Money isn’t anything in and of itself, it’s a representation of time and energy whose values change as you age.

To put it simply: everything is a trade off.
Mustachianism is about negotiating every trade off to get the best deal for your particular circumstances. For every single cent you spend, you need to evaluate the time/energy/money exchange and decide if the trade is worthwhile.

For high income earners, this is a very big question because the possibilities are tremendous.
If your household income is over 200K, you can afford almost any luxury you want short of mega-rich territory stuff like private planes.
You *could* afford a huge luxurious 1M+ house, an Astin Martin, luxury travel, high fashion, expensive restaurants, wine collections, private school for your kids, a country home, a huge retirement nest egg, or an extremely early retirement, or fund some amazing projects, or buy a seat on an important committee, etc, etc...you just can’t afford them all. You have to choose.

Okay, so you like expensive activities and expensive travel. That’s cool.
Do you like it more than every other single thing that that money could buy you? Is it more satisfying than any alternative including more free time? Earlier retirement? Literally everything else in the world?

The statement “I can afford it” directly translates to “I’m happy to work more for it” not “oh well, I’m working super hard and generating this income anyway, so I might as well spend some of it to make the whole thing worthwhile”
See how insane the second one is when you actually look at it???

This is where you need to know yourself.
You need to know your own needs and values to be able to use your big incomes to craft your best life because if you piss away your money, you are pissing away your time, your energy, and all of the incredible opportunities that go along with your situation.
The opportunity cost of your current lifestyle is astronomical, and you don’t even feel like you live a rich or spendy life! Do you see how crazy that is?

It’s not about not spending.
It’s not about adjusting to depriving yourself of things.
It’s not about learning to live on less.
It’s about learning to live more, learning what truly makes you happy, and using the time/energy/money balance to generate the best life possible.
You have every resource at your disposal to live amazingly well and you are wasting it.

One of the most valuable messages that MMM has shared is that your best life probably doesn’t cost nearly as much as your mediocre life.

Personally, I make more money than you do, but it takes something pretty fucking spectacular to get me to part with my cash. I’m not cheap, I’m just a snob about spending. My bar for spending is very high. I’m not at all the most frugal person, I spend on plenty of things that others wouldn’t, but they are things that matter to me. They have value disproportionate to their cost in terms of time/energy/money/opportunity cost for me personally. I feel very good about everything I spend on. If it doesn’t feel like I’m getting an amazing deal on the trade-off, I don’t make the trade.

Hold your life to a higher standard and you won’t find it a struggle to spend less.

koshtra

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #360 on: June 04, 2018, 09:13:28 AM »
@Malkynn has been on a roll lately. The shitstorm post:

"Just because most people choose to spend their lives miserable and trodding through shit doesn’t mean that those who choose not to have life figured out, they just don’t have shit in their shoes."

The word “retirement” has actually lost a lot of utility.
It made a lot of sense when it was common for people to have a single, pensioned, full time job with a predictable end date where they just stopped working forever.

However, times have changed, careers are infinitely more variable and lifestyle-sustaining pensions are less and less common.
That’s why so many people here focus on FI instead, except that FI is largely arbitrary and self-defined.

For someone working a full time day job that they don’t love for Megacorp, there may still be a clear line in the sand between what they consider their “working years” vs their “retirement years” even if their “retirement” involves paid work. That’s the MMM trajectory. However, there are plenty of people who don’t have Megacorp day jobs and don’t have a clear delineation.

Some of us have multiple jobs, varied side hustles, flexible careers that adapt to our lives and can be customized along the way. I have no idea when I will be considered “retired” or which of my projects will be considered a “side hustle” or even when I’ll reach FI, because my projected retirement spending is actually going to be based on how much money I manage to save +whatever my projects continue to generate, and not the other way around.

The “X number of years on the hamster wheel to generate Y dollars in savings until Z% withdrawal rate can support my projected annual expenses in perpetuity and then I’ll quit” model definitely makes sense for A LOT of career trajectories, but it’s not a universal model, it’s a career CHOICE.
It’s not a given, it’s an option.

Early retirement sure as shit won’t answer any of life’s problems. Money provides security, low expenses provide flexibility, and healthy psychological relationship with finance is simply a good idea, but that’s not answering life’s problems, it’s just being responsible, proactive, and avoiding stepping in shit that can easily be avoided. Just because most people choose to spend their lives miserable and trodding through shit doesn’t mean that those who choose not to have life figured out, they just don’t have shit in their shoes.

Make no mistake though. Life will rain a monsoon of shit down on you that you can barely handle no matter what your financial situation. Life.is.fucking.hard. It just fucking is. Early retirement is just one of many many strategies that people can choose to manage the shitstorm. However, that doesn’t fundamentally make it the best choice for everyone either.

I read A LOT of posts here from miserable, stressed out people who talk about how they’re desperate to reach FIRE and *then* they’ll start taking more care of their health, *then* they’ll start focusing on their personal development and happiness. They may relearn how to be healthy and happy once they reach FIRE or they may have done irreparable damage to their health, psyche, relationships, and wasted their prime opportunities for building their fullest life. Is ER better than their miserable working years? You bet! But is their net lifestime happiness higher than if they had chosen a different path? Hard to say...maybe, maybe not.

I’m actually an optimist, but it is a universal truth that life will throw shit at you, and your precious ‘stache can’t protect you. It can make you more resilient, more confident, more flexible, but it’s an umbrella in the storm, not a bunker. You’re not “safe” and you’re not guaranteed any damn happiness.

So what’s the “truth” about early retirement?
It’s whatever you decide it to be. Like anything else, it’s just part of the decisions that you have to make in order to build your life.

One thing I know is absolutely, incontrovertibly, and terrifyingly true: living for tomorrow wastes today, and today is literally all you have.

Brother Esau

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #361 on: June 04, 2018, 09:30:33 AM »
Malkynn 2020!

haflander

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #362 on: June 04, 2018, 10:10:09 AM »
Sorry to be That Guy and merely PTF without contributing anything right now, but this thread is too good to miss any one post.

Dicey

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #363 on: June 04, 2018, 03:30:23 PM »
This is a thing of beauty from @SwordGuy:

I don't get people that take politics super-seriously or choose their friends based on politics.

I understand people who take police brutality seriously because they are far more likely to be shot by police for doing nothing at all.

Maybe your demographic doesn't have that problem.

I understand people who take oppression seriously because they can end up going to jail (or being shot by police) simply for waiting for a friend at a Starbucks, or cooking at the grill in a public park, or doing their job at their place of work, or asking directions from someone, or just opening their front door.

Maybe your demographic doesn't have that problem.

I understand people who take oppression seriously because they can't get promoted because of their gender, or get sexually harassed because, as Trump Jr put it so very clearly, if you can't stand being sexually harassed in the workplace, you should stay at home.  Or they have to learn at age 10 to go to the bathroom in groups so they won't get groped by some guy while they are away from their friends.  (You did know that's why girls do that?)   As one coworker put it, again so very clearly, when I brought up Trump's video self-confession to being a serial sexual assaulter, "Why should I care?  It's not like it's bad for the economy!"

Maybe your demographic doesn't have that problem.

What I can't get is people who have no damn empathy for folks in that situation and can't be bothered to give a damn about the injustice of it.  Because, after all, it's not affecting them, so why should they care?

Hirondelle

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #364 on: June 05, 2018, 10:58:19 PM »
This brilliant post from MMM resident city planner Prospector articulates quite nicely what makes a place livable for human beings. I've removed the links because this was snipped out of a journal.

Quote from: Prospector
[snipped] Prospector's post about life in France/Lille and how walkable it all is.

LOVED this one. This is one of the things I love the most about Europe and what I miss the most when living abroad. Being able to walk/bike everywhere, get outside and see your neighbours, run into other friends/acquintances and see that as a regular part of your day/life that's enjoyable and not just a chore.

Linea_Norway

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #365 on: June 06, 2018, 12:32:44 AM »
This brilliant post from MMM resident city planner Prospector articulates quite nicely what makes a place livable for human beings. I've removed the links because this was snipped out of a journal.

Quote from: Prospector
[snipped] Prospector's post about life in France/Lille and how walkable it all is.

LOVED this one. This is one of the things I love the most about Europe and what I miss the most when living abroad. Being able to walk/bike everywhere, get outside and see your neighbours, run into other friends/acquintances and see that as a regular part of your day/life that's enjoyable and not just a chore.

When I lived in a medium sized town in the Netherlands, everything was also bikeable. Especially when I also worked in the same town.

Dicey

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #366 on: June 26, 2018, 06:57:21 PM »
Placeholder. Found this thread again, now off to find the thing I want to put here. Be back soon!

Dicey

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #367 on: June 26, 2018, 08:14:03 PM »
Here it is:

I love this! I think it's too good to limit it to either gender, so I've taken the liberty of making it neutral. I hope the author does not mind. I truly believe this will help people make better partnering decisions. Thank you for this excellent post, @rdaneel0!

What characteristics do you look for in a person you want to date? I think you need to adjust your list because I'm guessing you are missing some seriously important traits and focusing on superficial things. Weed out the unqualified with these questions:

1. Is s/he hard working?
Not just at work (that's important too) but in general? Does s/he pitch in and help people without being asked or wait to be served and taken care of? Does s/he complain about and hate any form of work or does s/he feel gratified doing a good job at something?

2. Does s/he have integrity? Is their word good? If s/he says she'll do something will s/he do it? Does s/he have personal morals and values s/he holds themself to or is s/he only concerned with their own gratification? People who use other people have no integrity.

3. Is s/he appreciative? Is there ever enough you can do to please them or is there a constantly shifting goalpost? Is s/he gracious and vocally appreciative when you do something nice?

4. Is s/he generous? How generous is s/he not only with you but with friends and family? How generous is s/he with time and focus? Does s/he go out of their way to do kind things for others? People who are generous generally do not take advantage of others.

This is the really important stuff that goes deep into the heart of who a person really is. In my opinion this is far more important than having common hobbies or liking the same movies.

Hirondelle

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #368 on: June 27, 2018, 01:33:40 AM »
That one was wonderful. Honestly, I think it's not even useful just for making partner decisions, but also very applicible to oneself. Just change s/he to I and that's the person I'd like to be!

Linea_Norway

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #369 on: June 27, 2018, 02:31:50 AM »
Here it is:

I love this! I think it's too good to limit it to either gender, so I've taken the liberty of making it neutral. I hope the author does not mind. I truly believe this will help people make better partnering decisions. Thank you for this excellent post, @rdaneel0!

What characteristics do you look for in a person you want to date? I think you need to adjust your list because I'm guessing you are missing some seriously important traits and focusing on superficial things. Weed out the unqualified with these questions:

1. Is s/he hard working?
Not just at work (that's important too) but in general? Does s/he pitch in and help people without being asked or wait to be served and taken care of? Does s/he complain about and hate any form of work or does s/he feel gratified doing a good job at something?

2. Does s/he have integrity? Is their word good? If s/he says she'll do something will s/he do it? Does s/he have personal morals and values s/he holds themself to or is s/he only concerned with their own gratification? People who use other people have no integrity.

3. Is s/he appreciative? Is there ever enough you can do to please them or is there a constantly shifting goalpost? Is s/he gracious and vocally appreciative when you do something nice?

4. Is s/he generous? How generous is s/he not only with you but with friends and family? How generous is s/he with time and focus? Does s/he go out of their way to do kind things for others? People who are generous generally do not take advantage of others.

This is the really important stuff that goes deep into the heart of who a person really is. In my opinion this is far more important than having common hobbies or liking the same movies.

This morning I just listened to a podcast from Dear Sugars about otherwise good relationships where there was just this one issue. So 2 other things I learned this morning were:

Can you talk with him/her about the issues and concerns that are most important to you? Is he/she willing to listen and trying to understand?

If one aspect of your life differs from your partner, for example you have different beliefs, are both parties willing to meet each other halfway by learning more about the other partner's life and motivations? Are you fully respected for making your choice?

Hula Hoop

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #370 on: July 03, 2018, 02:21:22 AM »
Here it is:

I love this! I think it's too good to limit it to either gender, so I've taken the liberty of making it neutral. I hope the author does not mind. I truly believe this will help people make better partnering decisions. Thank you for this excellent post, @rdaneel0!

What characteristics do you look for in a person you want to date? I think you need to adjust your list because I'm guessing you are missing some seriously important traits and focusing on superficial things. Weed out the unqualified with these questions:

1. Is s/he hard working?
Not just at work (that's important too) but in general? Does s/he pitch in and help people without being asked or wait to be served and taken care of? Does s/he complain about and hate any form of work or does s/he feel gratified doing a good job at something?

2. Does s/he have integrity? Is their word good? If s/he says she'll do something will s/he do it? Does s/he have personal morals and values s/he holds themself to or is s/he only concerned with their own gratification? People who use other people have no integrity.

3. Is s/he appreciative? Is there ever enough you can do to please them or is there a constantly shifting goalpost? Is s/he gracious and vocally appreciative when you do something nice?

4. Is s/he generous? How generous is s/he not only with you but with friends and family? How generous is s/he with time and focus? Does s/he go out of their way to do kind things for others? People who are generous generally do not take advantage of others.

This is the really important stuff that goes deep into the heart of who a person really is. In my opinion this is far more important than having common hobbies or liking the same movies.

This morning I just listened to a podcast from Dear Sugars about otherwise good relationships where there was just this one issue. So 2 other things I learned this morning were:

Can you talk with him/her about the issues and concerns that are most important to you? Is he/she willing to listen and trying to understand?

If one aspect of your life differs from your partner, for example you have different beliefs, are both parties willing to meet each other halfway by learning more about the other partner's life and motivations? Are you fully respected for making your choice?

This is all such great advice.  My parents had a horrible marriage and I've been extremely surprised to find myself in a happy stable marriage.  Due to my experiences as a child, I saw marriage as a horrible, miserable affair and didn't realize that it could also be a supportive refuge from the difficulties of life.

IMO inevitably you'll have differences from your partner in some respect - my husband and I have the added difficulty of cultural and class differences- but Linda makes a great point about having respect for your partner's beliefs and being willing to meet half way.  It's a work in progress but that's something that we strive for.

Trifele

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #371 on: July 04, 2018, 06:27:31 AM »
From @Malkynn on "What motivates you other than money?"

Health and happiness.

I bought into the whole concept of frugality as a means to a happier and healthier life, and so far, it works out quite well.
The more I focus on living a frugal life, the more I enjoy my life. I go through phases where I've taken on too much work and I get a bit burnt out and lazy and resort to spendy entertainment like going out to restaurants, and buying things, and in those phases life just doesn't feel as satisfying or enjoyable.

The more I stay focused on frugality and using money more meaningfully, the more dynamic, challenging, healthy, and interesting my life gets. It's not that spending is necessarily bad, it's that frugality pushes me to be more active in evaluating the actual value of the things I choose to spend on and do. When I pay attention to filling my life with the richest experiences, I hold my spending to a very high standard and therefore get a lot more out of it.

Also, having to be creative in engaging life with minimal spending tends to result in a lot of amazing opportunities: learning new things, networking with other creative and productive people, and finding new ways to be useful.
Overall, I find a spendier life to be more boring, less engaging, less physically active, and doesn't produce the kind of amazing outcomes that a frugal life does.

Lastly, frugality equals flexibility, which equals freedom.
My DH too has a huge pension that would cover more than we need; however, we don't actually need his full pension.
Sure, he *may* decide to keep working into his 60s, but because our spending is so low, he could easily decide to leave within the next 5 years. He gets a lot of satisfaction with his work, but he works a lot on international dossiers and at any point could be recruited by an overseas NGO, and we have the flexibility to say "why not try it?"
Who knows what he'll end up doing, but the point is that he can do whatever he wants. He doesn't *have to* stay at his job until he reaches full pension.

The more we live this frugal life, the more we see the secret network of unexpected doors opening up to us as we broaden our perception of what options are available to us as we become less and less attached to a life that requires us to spend a certain amount.

oneday

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #372 on: July 26, 2018, 04:46:17 PM »
Not finance related, but it made my day.

DH and I believe there should be more whimsy in the world, what we can't find we had better make!

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #373 on: July 26, 2018, 05:11:40 PM »
Not finance related, but it made my day.

DH and I believe there should be more whimsy in the world, what we can't find we had better make!

Totally finance related, it was in reference to plans after FIRE!

Loren Ver

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #374 on: July 27, 2018, 04:48:51 AM »
Not finance related, but it made my day.

DH and I believe there should be more whimsy in the world, what we can't find we had better make!

Thank you oneday.  I'm glad others appreciate whimsy!

Dances With Fire

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #375 on: July 27, 2018, 06:52:47 AM »
From @Malkynn on "What motivates you other than money?"

Health and happiness.

I bought into the whole concept of frugality as a means to a happier and healthier life, and so far, it works out quite well.
The more I focus on living a frugal life, the more I enjoy my life. I go through phases where I've taken on too much work and I get a bit burnt out and lazy and resort to spendy entertainment like going out to restaurants, and buying things, and in those phases life just doesn't feel as satisfying or enjoyable.

The more I stay focused on frugality and using money more meaningfully, the more dynamic, challenging, healthy, and interesting my life gets. It's not that spending is necessarily bad, it's that frugality pushes me to be more active in evaluating the actual value of the things I choose to spend on and do. When I pay attention to filling my life with the richest experiences, I hold my spending to a very high standard and therefore get a lot more out of it.

Also, having to be creative in engaging life with minimal spending tends to result in a lot of amazing opportunities: learning new things, networking with other creative and productive people, and finding new ways to be useful.
Overall, I find a spendier life to be more boring, less engaging, less physically active, and doesn't produce the kind of amazing outcomes that a frugal life does.

Lastly, frugality equals flexibility, which equals freedom.
My DH too has a huge pension that would cover more than we need; however, we don't actually need his full pension.
Sure, he *may* decide to keep working into his 60s, but because our spending is so low, he could easily decide to leave within the next 5 years. He gets a lot of satisfaction with his work, but he works a lot on international dossiers and at any point could be recruited by an overseas NGO, and we have the flexibility to say "why not try it?"
Who knows what he'll end up doing, but the point is that he can do whatever he wants. He doesn't *have to* stay at his job until he reaches full pension.

The more we live this frugal life, the more we see the secret network of unexpected doors opening up to us as we broaden our perception of what options are available to us as we become less and less attached to a life that requires us to spend a certain amount.

^^^ This is excellent. Thanks for sharing.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #376 on: August 22, 2018, 01:10:04 PM »
A LOT can happen in 4-6 years.

...snip...

So yeah, look at the math. Know what’s realistic, and then focus on getting the most out of your life regardless of what happens to your plans along the way.
My DH always says: “never let a good plan fuck up a great life”

All good points. Any FIRE plan that is supposed to span decades needs to have a flexible foundation. Both for how FIRE starts and how it progresses. You can't plan it all out in advance and you can't know what it will be like 100% once you retire. That said generating some sort of plan/vision is smart, but don't get too attached to it.

Where I see people go wrong with this ^^^ is they lock in on "flexibility" as being lots more money, which equals years more work. When you look at all the failure modes for FIRE running out of cash isn't the one that concerns me a ton. Formulate a reasonable budget. Save/invest a conservative amount [ie. 4%WR]. Be a tad flexible in your spending in response to market events and you'll be golden. On the other hand work too much sacrificing your physical or mental health or your primary relationships and you'll be a very rich miserable person who dies young or lives a long time feeling like life ripped them off.

You need to get to FIRE with money, but far more importantly you need to get there with your health, with solid personal relationships and with the mental framework to be able to be happy. Accumulating the money is the easy part if you are a white collar professional...it's the other items that will take a lot of attention, effort and commitment.  Assuming you'll reconnect with your SO, family and friends after FIRE having put them on the back burner for work is a dangerous assumption. The same goes for sacrificing your health at a stressful sedentary desk job and thinking you'll fix all the damage once you are retired. You might....but you might not get the chance as well.

All this to say be flexible and don't just focus on money. It's a tool that's useful to build a great life, but it's not the goal itself.

Sailor Sam

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #377 on: September 13, 2018, 12:08:20 PM »
From Janet Jackson, on poverty.

I've tried to remain silent and let it roll off my back, but this thread is really upsetting.

I don't think that some of the commenters realize how much easier it is to make small "stupid" mistakes when you have a buffer or a support system.
I am no longer under the poverty line, but I spent the majority of my life there... and the smallest mistake or choice can keep you from getting ahead... It is SO IMPERATIVE to make consistent proper choices in succession for YEARS to get even a little bit ahead... while those who have more of a cash buffer or a solid support system based on even minor wealth can get away with certain choices or mistakes.

On a personal note/one very minor example in a full history of MANY choices like this:
How many times have I needed stitches in my life?  TWICE.  Once as a child, and once as an adult.
How many times have I gotten stitches? ZERO.  My dad superglued my leg and butterfly bandaged it when I was a kid, and it's the only time I think I remember ever having seen him close to tears. 
He was making a CHOICE that it wasn't quite bad enough for stitches... and that stitches would be cosmetic, but not medically necessary... so, in order to keep us moving in an upward trajectory, he fixed it himself. 
I was fine, it was "the right choice," but still a really shitty choice to have to make. 
The need for stitches was cosmetic... it healed 'fine' with the glue and butterfly bandages... but I wouldn't even have a scar today if I'd gotten stitches... but... instead I have a scar that covers about 1/2 of my knee.

I made the same choice for myself about 7 years ago when cutting homemade soap to sell at the farmers market (trying to get ahead, for me, has meant always having 2+ jobs). 
I'd already lost the whole batch since it had my blood on it, which means I'd already lost money.  This time, I was lucky enough to have a very close friend who is a nurse and gifted me surgical glue and this stuff called 'stitch floss tape' (or something like that) for the prior x-mas (she knows me). 
I decided to fix it myself, which was awful (I almost fainted, ha).. but since I'd already lost a HUGE batch of soap, I didn't want to ALSO pay for an ER or Urgent Care bill.  So, again, I made a shitty choice.

So, personal experiences aside...
It's little shitty awful choices in succession like this that help poor people get ahead.... $20, $40, $70 at a time.
It's also not making ANY or VERY FEW mistakes and/or expensive choices....

People choose not to have children, people choose not to pursue any of their passions, people choose not to have even one drink, because poor folks are perceived as alcoholics when they have a drink after a hard day, but somehow upper-class white women CONSTANTLY make jokes about "needing" wine to get through an event or a day... (these are not examples of my life, just examples)…
And if poor people make "mistakes" like falling in love or entering the workforce without further education at a minimum, they might be able to get ahead.

Yet people with access to wealth can make small non-optimal choices and even small mistakes and recover.  Do these people go to work when they have a fever?  Most likely not.  Do poor folks?  Generally, yes... even though they know it's the wrong thing to do for the public, for coworkers, etc.... if they make the wrong choice for themselves (vs the wrong choice for the public good), they'll get behind...
I, and many others, can't afford to make "the wrong choice".

Don't have children with multiple partners?  Look at Donald Trump (politics aside {seriously, leave them aside}). 
He sure did it, and did it send him into a tailspin or a life of paying retribution for those "wrong" choices?  No.
That's just one example... there are so many more.
Don't do drugs, even the mildest non-habit-forming ones that might help you with stress reduction (again, not advocating for this or speaking from experience, just an example).  Look at Bill Clinton.
He sure did it, and did that admission send him into a tailspin and set him up for spending the rest of his life paying retribution for that "wrong" choice?  No.


So it's especially hard to listen to folks in this thread berating people for their imperfect choices... as if being born into poverty was a choice. 

When people offer progressive solutions, instead of engaging positively (even if they think the idea won't work... at least TALK about some solutions), it seems like all too many people are ready to pass out the "well that's the way the cookie crumbles" summary of things... and/or suggest that the cash poor just "work harder"....


It really doesn't seem like some people have any idea how many small, tiny, ITTY BITTY choices poor people make every single day to get ahead... stuff that the higher class, or those born into relative security, don't even think about/don't even have to think about.

it is as if only the wealthy are permitted to have the full range of human experiences... passion, love, experiences, whatever....

grantmeaname

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #378 on: September 13, 2018, 05:13:44 PM »
Dang. Great post.

KCalla

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #379 on: September 15, 2018, 08:14:21 PM »
And when, day after day, so many decisions are "high stakes" and a small wrong move can have significant impact, the ongoing stress affects so much.

JanetJackson

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #380 on: September 16, 2018, 06:46:26 AM »
Thanks for the shout out @Sailor Sam!  Also, now I have to reckon with my typos twice.  HA.

BTDretire

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #381 on: September 16, 2018, 07:05:57 AM »
Great summary of how we reached our current level of inequality in the U.S. by @Mikenost12:

A modest proposal…

  Capital in the Twenty First Century by Piketty, I believe discusses the problem being that income from capital gains/ownership have grown and multiplied faster than wages. The problem isn’t egregious CEO salaries, specialists or highly paid experts, the real issues is investment income turning society more into a system of haves and have nots, many into serfs or wage slaves. People generating much more wealth based on what they own rather then actual work, and getting tax breaks on this kind of income. While wanting us to take back democracy and have a more equitable system, I agree with what most everyone else said it also scares me to do my best to get to and maintain personal economic security.

 It isn’t necessary to especially incentivize investments, with low Capital Gain taxes, it’s already extremely rewarding and with interest rates near zero and companies flush with cash they have nothing to do with (buy competitors or stock buybacks). Low capital gains taxes, efforts to eliminate estate taxes on 12 million plus inheritences, loopholes for pass-through income, and other ways they system gets set up are just a giveaway to people that need it the least but wield the most political and economic power, exacerbating the situation.

 Solutions might include taxing capital gains at the same rate as regular income, raising rates of top income brackets back to levels of say Reagan at least, and getting the money out of politics. The idea that not allowing the ultra wealthy/corporations to contribute tens of millions of dollars regularly to politicians somehow infringes on their free speech is insane.

  Of course the government doesn't make decisions that make sense, are good for most Americans, our planet, future generations or our County strength in the future, logic or scientific fact (global warming anyone). The government's actions only make sense when view through the lens of the people paying for it, the very very very rich, not us squabling 15% or top 5%'s online feeling hurt because we worked hard and feel the article doesn't give us enough credit.

  Erosion of tax basis, declaring war on government for the past 40+ years, taking away laws protecting workers, prohibiting monopolies, priviatizing utilities, etc  have taken their toll, with targeted legislation benefiting corporations and special interests. For all the Constitutional Originalists mental gymnastics, I can’t see the Framers thinking legal bribery (Citizens United) was good for our democracy, and endorsing the current plutocracy/oligarchy.

  We can hope more of the rich are like Buffet, who says he will be giving away 99% of his wealth, Andrew Carnegie and the notion of Noblesse Oblige,  building us librarys, parks, and whatnot, that your duty as ultra wealthy is to help the serfs. I wouldn't hold my breath as it is more likely for the .001 of a percent to not be philanthropists giving away most of their dynastic wealth but instead feel extra super duper better than everyone else, like the Walton family or Koch Brothers, paying people as little as possible, influencing legistlation to further enrich themselves, with a kinda of cynical cruelty that belies a contempt for their fellow human beings,

in short, I'm gonna be smart, save, invest, work hard, help others, and well, their must be a punk band with a better way to say it but
It
 
  The system is fixable, our society was far more equitable before, just undo the policies of the past 40+ years that the elites lobbied for. Reverse engineer what they did, I fear it has to get much more unequal, with alot more suffering before people realize government can be a force for good and we get New Deal 2.0

 And all this time I thought special tax treatment of capital gains was the best way to help the little man that
had the ability to save a little of his paycheck to have a sizable nestegg when he retired.
 Glad I was born and took advantage before those changes can take that away!
  And add to that, inflation reduces your real gains, but you pay taxes on that loss.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #382 on: September 17, 2018, 04:49:15 PM »
Thanks for the shout out @Sailor Sam!  Also, now I have to reckon with my typos twice.  HA.

Wow great post JanetJackson.

Glenstache

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #383 on: September 17, 2018, 05:59:49 PM »
Thanks for the shout out @Sailor Sam!  Also, now I have to reckon with my typos twice.  HA.

Wow great post JanetJackson.
+1. A thing worth reading, and remembering for sure. It is good to get a view out of the FI bubble.

pbkmaine

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #384 on: September 17, 2018, 06:38:18 PM »
Thanks for the shout out @Sailor Sam!  Also, now I have to reckon with my typos twice.  HA.

Wow great post JanetJackson.
+1. A thing worth reading, and remembering for sure. It is good to get a view out of the FI bubble.

I loved this.

Kay-Ell

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #385 on: September 18, 2018, 09:17:18 AM »
And when, day after day, so many decisions are "high stakes" and a small wrong move can have significant impact, the ongoing stress affects so much.

I think this is an important point to understand in terms of how it effects hope and optimism too (one of MMM's self proclaimed essential mustatian traits).  When day after day, year after year, generation after generation, any small bad decisioins can have significant, lasting neative impacts, not only does that cause stress it creates hopelessness and a defeatest mentality.  Why save $5 or $10 or $20 bucks here or there if your generational expectation is that life will just find another way to screw you.  Sure, we all know that saving $15, 2X per week by cooking economically at home instead of taking yourself and your kids to McDonalds will compound over 10 years to over 20k.  And that saving another $50/month on cable TV will bring the combined number up to almost 30k.  Then factor in the health benefits and subsiquent earning potential of eating better food and sitting in front of the TV less and you suddenly have life changing money.  But with the compounded effects of stress, poverty, constant setbacks and a generational consensus of defeat and hopelessness denying ones self and children the momentary pleasures of McDonalds and TV feels utterly pointless.  Finding and maintaining the necessary optimism to believe that the tiny incrimental improvements that are under one's personal control could add up to create real, meaningful improvements is nearly impossible when you and everyone you know is stuck in the vicious cycle of poverty.

letsdoit

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #386 on: September 18, 2018, 09:43:10 AM »
to follow

matchewed

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #387 on: September 18, 2018, 02:25:24 PM »
Just stepped in to remind that if you want to continue any sort of discussion from another thread the best place to do it is in said thread, not in this thread, as this thread is meant to share posts, not necessarily discuss them.

:)

JanetJackson

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #388 on: September 18, 2018, 02:47:56 PM »
Just stepped in to remind that if you want to continue any sort of discussion from another thread the best place to do it is in said thread, not in this thread, as this thread is meant to share posts, not necessarily discuss them.

:)
You're very right.  Deleted :)

letsdoit

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #389 on: September 19, 2018, 08:58:53 AM »
Topic: How do you deal with "The Grind"?

When I had more free time during the day, I would take long walks at lunch. Now I generally take my walks straight from work and spend lunch with friends.
I always take lunch.
I refuse to stay late or work on the weekends.
I disengage emotionally. I'm here to do a job, and the outcome of any particular project or meeting doesn't affect me.
I don't get involved in office politics.
I take advantage of meetings to make work friends.
I focus on my core job functions and do those. I don't volunteer for extra work.
I don't stress out (anymore) about getting excellent performance reviews. It's not nearly worth the hours and stress required to possibly be in contention for a slightly higher bonus.
When I leave the office, I'm done with it. I don't talk about work, I don't think about work, I don't complain about work. If I do talk or write about it, I can forget all about it immediately after. I was only able to make this change once I left a super-stressful job. It was almost besides the point that the new job also had a higher salary.

+1

letsdoit

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #390 on: September 19, 2018, 03:30:37 PM »
Advice for a 17 year old from Cyaphas

Here we GO:

Don't have children until you're at least 25.

Don't mix family/friends and money. Don't rent a house to family or friends. Don't start a small business with family/friends.

Find a career where you can comfortably save over $40k per year. Always take into account geographic cost of living, including taxes, relative to income in the areas you're looking.

Don't take on debt unless you can clearly present a net profit to you from said debt.

Try to save at least 1/2 of your paycheck. At your age you should probably just drop it into VTSAX. IRA, 401k preferably. Then FORGET about it. Don't listen to market news.

Do not buy a house until you're sure you're going to be in an area for more than 10 years. This will most likely be after you're 25. NEVER buy a house without putting a lot of thought into it. Even though you may be, try to have someone who is financially practical and competent with you through the whole process. Make sure that person has your best interests in mind.

Don't be afraid to look at craftsmen jobs, electricians, machine operators, trade unions. A lot of them are paid very well and they're not stuck in an office all day. They also don't require near as much money in schooling/qualification.

Make sure you live within short biking distance to work and the grocery store. Automobiles are expensive and the less you use/own/maintain one the quicker you can reach FI.

Think of payments in decade format not monthly. $10 per month doesn't seem like much. $1200 seems like a lot. Is Pandora worth $600 over 10 years? Is Netflix worth $1200 over 10 years? $100/month phone bill is $12,000 dollars over 10 years.

Avoid consumerism at all costs. Before you buy something, consider, do I really NEED this. There's nothing wrong with buying luxuries for yourself, but you need to know they're luxuries. Never buy anything over $40 that you haven't been considering purchasing for at least a couple of days. Did you need it yesterday? Than why must you have it today?

Eating out, try to limit yourself to once a week. Find a happy hour places that serve cheap appetizers. Split them with friends.

Create little challenges for yourself. 1 month of not eating out. $30 weekly meal plan challenge. Walk to work/school every Monday for a month. Things of that nature. Create the challenge and track it. Hold yourself accountable.

Have fun. Don't burn yourself out. Go on trips. See the world. It's not as expensive as a lot of people make it out to be. NEVER travel on debt. Save up and THEN go on the trip.

I think of debt as a form of modern slavery. Other than education and a home purchase, there aren't a lot of other good reasons to take on debt.

Rent to own, avoid it at all costs. I've never come across a financial transaction where rent to own wasn't a complete rip off.

Be thrifty, thrift stores can be a great place to find casual clothing or even business dress for a very low cost.

Try to have a few hobbies and stick to them. Collecting hobbies gets expensive.
 
If a family member asks you for financial assistance give it to them as a gift, not a loan. If it's too much to give as a gift, than you sure don't want to give it to them as a loan. Make sure you're not giving drugs to a drug addict.

Don't get discouraged when everyone else tells you you're crazy. You can do this. This can be your reality. Study your finances. Make a plan. Stick to the plan. You'll be just fine.

Insurance companies usually are a rip off. They play on your fears. Only take on insurance when you absolutely have to. They aren't in the business of losing money.

Don't be afraid to try new things. Engines aren't really that complicated. Home construction is a lot more simple than most people think. Things don't work through magic, odds are if it's broke YOU can fix it. Is it worth your time? That's for you to determine. Don't start with the premise of it being impossible for you to do. Youtube is a beautiful thing.

If something in your life is collecting dust and it isn't sentimental to you. Get rid of it. Staying stuff free is extremely liberating.

If you want to see where you're going in life, take a look at the people you spend time with. This is very important. Some people are emotionally toxic, stay the hell away from them. Learn what a manipulator is and how they work. Don't just avoid them, stay the hell away with prejudice.

Make sure you spend time in some kind of social setting on a regular basis. Ball room dancing, swing dancing, toastmasters club... Aim for a more wealthy class of individuals, they can become invaluable to you with the knowledge they have and sway they hold in the community.

If you ever wind up in a situation with the law that isn't a traffic violation or you're clearly the victim, REMAIN SILENT. If you ever wind up in a police station being questioned, ASK FOR A LAWYER and then REMAIN SILENT. The law isn't known for being kind to the young. I've seen many a persons dreams dashed early against the rocks of our legal system over something stupid and trivial.

Fall in love. Date often. Don't think that the first one is the only one or the right one. Date someone for at least a year before you even consider marrying them. Then, wait at least 8 months before the wedding. Don't ever rush into anything when it comes to relationships. Make sure your significant other is frugal and on board with staying that way.

If I missed something, I'm sure MMM has an article to cover it.

You're already way ahead of the pack. Good luck. Don't take life for granted it goes by fast.

wow

Trifele

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #391 on: September 20, 2018, 05:04:02 AM »
Damn that is a fine post by @Cyaphas.   

letsdoit

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #392 on: September 20, 2018, 03:08:27 PM »
If you run the fastest in a race, you get a medal.  The medal doesn't change anything about you.  If another person happens to come to the next race, and you run as fast as before, but he runs faster, he gets the medal.  Nothing about your runnning is changed by the medal.  It's not really the important thing.  Running has made you stronger, healthier, and etc.  If you push yourself too far in an effort to get the medal and get hurt, then did you still really win?  The medal is a fancy decoration made up by some other people.  The process and not the outcomes is what life is!

The whole quote is great, then the culmination in that last sentence... <3

this reminds me of the guy who was running the 400(?) at the atlanta olympics and tweaked his hamstring.  and he was hopping on one leg to the finish line and his dad ran out of the stands and ran up to him on the track and they walked arm and arm to the finish, crying

letsdoit

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #393 on: September 20, 2018, 03:13:50 PM »
i learned from here to use only the interest payment (plus condo fees if there are )  as the cost of your mortgage. 
eliminating the principle payment is illuminating for me when comparing my mortgage to renting elsewhere

talltexan

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #394 on: September 21, 2018, 01:15:50 PM »
Letsdoit-

I'm glad you're thinking in these terms! But I would add property taxes/insurance.

ketchup

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #395 on: September 21, 2018, 01:18:15 PM »
Letsdoit-

I'm glad you're thinking in these terms! But I would add property taxes/insurance.
And opportunity cost.

letsdoit

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #396 on: September 26, 2018, 08:41:10 AM »
this board motivated me to use NYT rent vs buy calculator to do the post-mortem of my decision to buy house; i.e. the calculus of whether or not we have saved money vs renting

DeepEllumStache

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #397 on: September 26, 2018, 12:20:56 PM »
Link removed since I took this from a journal, but it was a reminder that I would prefer to learn to deal with the uncertainty versus just accepting the safer alternative.

Quote from: Retire-Canada
Quote from: maizeman
I've wondered about exactly this. Would/will I actually be sacrificing some of the stress-free feelings I have now with both a stash and a paycheck once I FIRE? Or will I be able to convince myself at an emotional/gut level that there is still going to be plenty of money even when unexpected expenses pop up?

One of the beautiful things about continuing to work beyond FI and dying alone at your desk, say late on a Friday evening, is that as you are taking your last gasp of breath and your head is falling towards the keyboard with the last image you will ever see in this life being "QWERTY" getting bigger and bigger...you can let go of this mortal coil thinking triumphantly "I never ran out of money! I win!"  ;-)

merula

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #398 on: October 05, 2018, 06:48:57 AM »
@Villanelle had a wonderful take on mistakes, forgiveness and moving on:

This is a similar question to the one faced by many addicts in recovery.  They know in their heart they are done drinking (gmabling, shooting up, whatever-ing) and often grow frustrated that those around them, especially those most hurt by the addiction and resulting behaviors, are still cautious, skeptical, or even downright mistrusting.

The thing is, when you do the Bad Thing, you don't get to decide how others feel about it. They forgive and move on in their own time, in their own way.  Or maybe even not at all.

And part of doing Bad Stuff is living with the consequences.  Sometimes those consequences are irreversible, and that's not something the Bad-Doer can control.  So some people may never trust you again. Some people may never hire (or vote to confirm ;)) you.  Some people may never trust you with their car or in their house alone or with their kids or to keep a secret.  And so what?  You still have to move forward the same way.  if we are talking about addition, that means you still move forward in sobriety.  If people don't forgive you past Bad Acts, are you going to just throw up your hands and start drinking again, committing more Bad Acts because the first round can't just be erased?  If so, then you clearly don't deserve real forgiveness anyway because you haven't changed much or grown much or understood much about the implications of what you did.  And if you aren't, then you have to tolerate the fact that maybe some things you destroyed can't be undestroyed and while that's sad, once you've atoned and apologized and fixed yourself, you just have to live in this new world in which walks people who don't forgive you. 

And if we aren't talking about an addict, the same thing pretty much applies.  Many audiences no longer will pay to see your movies, and maybe that never changes.  Does that mean you go back to assaulting women or going on racist rants?  Because if you can't have your life back exactly as it was and exactly as you wanted it, then screw it--you might as well continue to be an assaulter or a rapist?  if so, then you don't deserve forgiveness or a restoration of anything. And if not, then you find a way to move forward in your new reality where you are no longer a working actor, comic, SCOTUS justice, politician, Youtube star, Instagram influencer.  You find a way to live--decently and respectfully and not-begrudingly--in the new world into which your own actions cast you. 

So, when is an apology enough?  It depends, but more importantly, it doesn't matter.   Do better, be better, and people will forgive and move on, or not.  But either way, you still need to do better and be better.

ministashy

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #399 on: October 05, 2018, 10:17:30 AM »
I was going to post this up too--it's a great reply!