Author Topic: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...  (Read 141034 times)

Vegasgirl

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #200 on: October 04, 2017, 07:48:00 AM »
Love this:

I also retired at 47 after losing passion for my career. It's been great, I definitely don't regret the decision. Like others, there was some trepidation about giving up the high pay and benefits and going from accumulation to withdrawals. But when you're done, you're done. Plus I was starting to dislike the marginal employee I was becoming. When you no longer like the work you're doing, it's inevitable you're going to become less effective, and I didn't feel it was fair to my coworkers or employers that I wasn't living up to my potential because my heart just wasn't in it any longer.

arebelspy

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #201 on: October 05, 2017, 11:12:26 PM »
On how to treat others:
A lot of [emotional intelligence] is about being self aware of your emotions and also recognizing other people are nothing like you! 

Going to the oldy but goody from the Bible...do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  Awesome, right?  But most people read this and think, I should treat others how I like to be treated.  No!  That's only half way.  What you really want is for other people to take the time and figure out how you like to be treated and then treat you that way.  If we all treated everyone how we like to be treated, we would all be miserable because we are all unique humans with unique needs.  So, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, you have to really understand what they want and need and then give them that.  Because that is what you would want them to do for you. 
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Linda_Norway

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #202 on: October 06, 2017, 01:06:48 AM »
On how to treat others:
A lot of [emotional intelligence] is about being self aware of your emotions and also recognizing other people are nothing like you! 

Going to the oldy but goody from the Bible...do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  Awesome, right?  But most people read this and think, I should treat others how I like to be treated.  No!  That's only half way.  What you really want is for other people to take the time and figure out how you like to be treated and then treat you that way.  If we all treated everyone how we like to be treated, we would all be miserable because we are all unique humans with unique needs.  So, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, you have to really understand what they want and need and then give them that.  Because that is what you would want them to do for you. 

I am Dutch and my mother often told us the expression: "Wat u niet wilt dat u geschiedt, doe dat ook een ander niet.".
This is the opposite of what is mentioned above: Don't do to others what you don't want to be done to yourself.

PizzaSteve

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #203 on: October 07, 2017, 09:31:44 AM »
I loved this great articulation of emotional decision making in a thread about bonds.  Our 20 somethings who may face this someday should read and understand about how emotions can impact investment choices.  ...

People keep throwing around 50% losses as if that mattered in and of itself. I'd rather have 50% of $2M in my portfolio than 80% of $1M.

Well, a good portion of my generation started the workforce in the late 90's. All my investments kept getting slaughtered all the way thru 2009. Just when I felt like investing in stocks was the "right" thing to do, I got punched in the gut, beaten with a wet towel, and dragged behind a prius for 200 miles. The emotional toll of such volatility definatly triggered some fight or flight, especially when the industry I worked in is HARD and each dollar came at great costs to my personal life to learn learn learn, work work work 18 hour days... Then to see it all just disapear so quickly is tought to stay the course. I know now in retrospec if I stayed the course and just went with a TSM I would have been very happy today, but everytime the stock market got a little higher after those crashes, you kept hearing constant doom and gloom about bubbles so you were always questioning your investments (even today). It took a good 15 years!! to see significant gains, which is kind of forever, especially in your 20's when you cannot even imagine your 40 year old self. I strongly believe in diversification even at the cost of gains if you have any emotion reactions to significant drops.

Raenia

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #204 on: October 13, 2017, 05:21:59 AM »
On inheritance, and what people choose to do with it:

Large inheritances ( think trust fund) make for lazy, loser adults. Iíve seen it in real life. Teach your kids well and help them limit debt. That is the sweet spot.

And that attitude/sweeping judgement is likely why anyone that has inherited is made to feel guilty or embarrassed and dislike discussing this sort of thing in general. This is a very narrow-minded view, and implies that those that did get anything notable didn't deserve it and always end up being lazy and losers with the money. It's not black and white, and it is very insulting to anyone that did end up inheriting a large amount of money. So every trust fund and heir is a loser? Seriously?

Here's a scary thought: It has nothing to do with money or being "spoiled" by wealth. It has everything to do with the person inheriting, and their individual character. You can teach a child just about anything you'd like, but their following those teachings is another matter altogether. You might get lucky and have children that all basically have a level head on their shoulders, but don't rule out the fact that you may also end up with a kid or two that just can't handle it, or chooses not to restrict or deny themselves once they are grown.

TL/DR: spendthrifts can be born, AND made to be that way. Don't assume outside factors always dictate their character as an adult, or overestimate your influence on building said character. Do your best to instill some good values and responsibility but then hope like anything that they also have a decent character and the ability to play the long game so they will avoid going nuts with money if given a large amount.


I apparently am one of the few folks on here apparently that has had a life-changing inheritance (or at least is willing to admit to it). I received an inheritance that made me instantly FI, and within 2 years after (to figure out how investing works and get all the ducks in rows) both my husband and I retired.

And while I did not hope for or expect a single penny, I know and appreciate just how incredible a gift this was - it is humbling and scary and exciting and sometimes a source of extreme sorrow. I'm still working through my feelings even years later.

My parents taught my sibling and myself how to be responsible with money and debts, how to save, and to have a good work ethic.

I was already well on my way to retiring in my mid 50s and the only thing I lacked was investing knowledge, but figured I had decades to get that stuff down (no clue about FIRE stuff at the time). I am frugal, had no debts, and was a hard worker with a long career with much recognition.

My sibling, raised by the same parents, is fucking terrible with money. Has been since they were a child. No impulse control, buys things because they deserve it, massive consumer debts. No ambition, no work ethic, no marketable skills. Spotty work history doing very low skill work (fast food, warehouse clerk, phone sales) with mostly no work at all over the last decade.

Considering sibling was raised the exact same way as me, you'd think we'd be roughly the same in terms of responsibility and being decent with money, but we are far apart in terms of basic world views really.

Inheriting a life changing sum didn't change who I was. I already was a hard-working, frugal person and I didn't change into a loser overnight and start throwing piles of money away on gold-plated cars or anything. And my sibling (who isn't a terrible person, just a terrible with money person) didn't turn into a frivolous spender just because they suddenly had instant wealth. They were already a spendthrift decades ago.

I took my inheritance and learned how to invest and grow it to hopefully provide a scholarship and some pretty kickass charitable trusts when I'm gone, but in the meantime, I'm doing just fine, and likely will never worry about money another second for the rest of my life.

Dicey

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #205 on: October 13, 2017, 09:05:38 AM »
I ♡♡♡♡♡ the wisdom  of Frankies Girl. When that Ghoul speaks, I listen. Wise woman, indeed.

shelivesthedream

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #206 on: October 14, 2017, 11:38:39 AM »
This is a brilliantly thoughtful post explaining a little about how American patriotism comes across to those of us from other developed Western democracies.

The grass is always greener. I'm gonna step up to the plate for the USA here...

It is very difficult to discuss differences between countries, because as soon as the topic of USA enters the discussion, Americans* step up to defend their country. Everyone is proud of their country, but I wonder if maybe the US school system takes this patriotism too far. For instance; I don't know any other democracy where parents would accept that their kids should learn to "pledge alligience to the flag".

A few examples of how something that must be trained into kids at school in the US, because it comes out so automatically in every discussion, and it just looks weird (or even slightly insulting) from the outside:

1) The WW2/Nazi thing.
All the allied countries learn to be proud about what their country did in the war. The UK take great pride in how they kept on fighting on even though London was bombed to smitherins. Norway is very proud of our skiing saboteurs who stopped the Nazis from getting enough heavy water to develop the atom bomb. The Faroes are very proud of their sailors, who ensured that goods and food got into the allied countries, despite staggering losses of men and ships (largest per capita in Europe). Even the Swedes are proud of how their neutral diplomats managed to care for refugees and save people from the camps. But we all learn that we were part of an alliance, and that this joint effort is what won the war, with three main turning points happening around 42/43: the major one was Germany's losses on the eastern front, where millions of Russians died in their effort to decimate the German troops. 3/4 of all German losses were by Russian troops, and the war in Europe was over when Russia took Berlin in 1945. The second turning point was in Africa, mainly thanks to the Commonwealth forces from India, Australia, New Zealand, etc. This knocked out Italy, and spread the German forces even thinner. The third turning point was the US entering the war.

When discussing this issue with people from USA, it sounds like they have only been taugth about their own part of the war, and that they are convinced the only reason Germany didn't win is that the US "came in and saved Europe's ass". When annoyed Europeans then respond with "hey, thanks for showing up late and claiming all the glory", it often seems like the Americans are hurt and feel attacked. This is very different from the banter the rest of us can have about this issue - about how the Russians turned their cape when the wind shifted, how we lost the battle of Norway in less than a week, how the French... were French, etc. There is no room for making light of the US military, that is taken as ungratefulness and insults.

*By Americans I mean US citizens. I know America has a large number of countries, but don't know any good word for the people living in the US.


2) The Constitution.
The US pride of their consititution, and how they view it as ancient, sacret, and unchangeable, is just weird for an outsider. It doesn't seem like they know that all other western democracies have similar laws, and that most of those are much older? Laws age, and need to be updated. Norway just changed several parts of our 1814 consititution; although it is younger than the US one, it still needed updating. If we were to become originalists, we would have a problem: The consititution has ties back to "the Law of Norway" from 1687, that replaced (or really revamped) Magnus LagabÝtes law of 1274-1276. This again was based on "the Gulating law" and "Frostating law", that have ties back to the 5th century. The UK have their Magna Carta, the southern Europeans have proud traditions stretching back to the Romans. The US consitution is nice, but it is really not that special. The Roman laws, and the Magna Carta, are the ones that really changed the world.


3) "Everybody wants to come here"
As shelivesthedream and snowball explained, a lot of people from poor countries want to move to any rich country to have more opportunities (they even want tocome to cold and dark Norway), and a lot of people in rich countries too find it interesting to try to live in different countries and experience different cultures. My mother is a scientist, and every so often she takes a semester abroad as a visiting scholar. She has been to other Nordic countries, the UK, parts of eastern Europe, etc. Last year she went to the US. It was a weird experience, and she will probably not try to do that again. I think we were 10 people involved to navigate the paperwork at its worst. Even going to Russia caused less and easier paperwork. Blank forms were printed and sent in the mail for her to fill out and send back. We had to find a bank that knew how to, and were willing to, handle paper checks. She had to drop everything on a days notice to get to the nearest US embassy for interviews. It was all so cumbersome and old fashioned.

And the really weird thing is that if you tell a Russian that the paperwork and bureaucrazy was a bit of a struggle, they will agree with you, and crack a few jokes about it. If you tell that to an American, they will often angrily resond with "yeah - if you think it is so bad, maybe you should just stay at home".

Linda_Norway

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #207 on: October 15, 2017, 05:55:43 AM »
I really liked this well described point of view about wanting to have children or not.

I have two kids. Love them more than I thought possible and super thankful for the gift of having them in my life. Outgoing love focused on others (as opposed to possessive love) involves sacrifice and effort, but this is additive rather than subtractive. That is, my love isn't divided between my kids, it has been added to with each kid. It's hard work and at times frustrating, disappointing, exhausting, scary. But the opportunity to love is worth it. As Brenť Brown puts it a TED talk (https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability/transcript)

Quote
This is what I have found: To let ourselves be seen, deeply seen, vulnerably seen ... to love with our whole hearts, even though there's no guarantee -- and that's really hard, and I can tell you as a parent, that's excruciatingly difficult -- to practice gratitude and joy in those moments of terror, when we're wondering, "Can I love you this much? Can I believe in this this passionately? Can I be this fierce about this?" just to be able to stop and, instead of catastrophizing what might happen, to say, "I'm just so grateful, because to feel this vulnerable means I'm alive." And the last, which I think is probably the most important, is to believe that we're enough. Because when we work from a place, I believe, that says, "I'm enough" ... then we stop screaming and start listening, we're kinder and gentler to the people around us, and we're kinder and gentler to ourselves.

Although my kids have helped me to better understand this, I don't think they are a necessary condition. On the contrary, those who look to kids to bring fulfilment and meaning to life are, IMO, likely to miss this bigger picture. Kids aren't about the satisfaction from seeing them succeed (however we define success), how they turn out. They are about loving for no other reason than they are worthy of it simply for being human, even when they disappoint or frustrate or even hurt us. As a father I sometimes think of what it would be like if one of my kids died tragically. Early on this gave me a lot of anxiety, but now I realize that even if the unthinkable happened all the sorrow and grief and pain would still be worth it just for having the opportunity to know and love them.

All this to say, I don't think people are necessarily missing out if they choose not to have kids. I think the key is to understand that it's all about connection with others, which can and does happen without kids. And unfortunately often does not happen with kids.

CanuckExpat

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #208 on: October 18, 2017, 01:51:36 PM »
Quoted emphasis mine

I don't think this forum has gone soft, I think it has gone more mainstream.  My perspective it the major first world countries.  I don't think many folks from Zimbabwe or Afghanistan frequent this site.

The vast majority of us, going down to lower middle and upper poor class, get in our reliable cars and drive paved roads to a stable job.  We work in safe environments, and if they are not safe, it can be resolved with a phone call or two.  We work our shift and drive our reliable car on paved roads back to our weather tight home.  We might stop by a well stocked grocery store to pick up some affordable food.  We walk into those weather tight homes, turn on the tv, take a leak and flush the toilet with running water, and have a nice dinner.  Over dinner we discuss how bad our lives are and we need to improve them.  We decide to finance our way out of this hard life.  We open monthly subscriptions to various services, we finance a nicer reliable car, and upgrade to a bigger weather tight house, we pay someone to mow the nice lawn.  We eat out because our jobs are too stressful to worry about cooking, we watch tv instead of interacting with our neighbors, we build 6' wooden fences to keep people out instead of getting to know who lives next door, then we drink or other such indulgences because we are fighting loneliness and stress from jobs and stress.   

I think Pete's original message is for us to take a step back and analyze our situation.  We are social beings.  Why are we actively configuring our lives to remove the social aspect?  Why are we trying to outdo our neighbors instead of getting to know them?  We are also physical beings.  Why are we sitting in an office chair in order to make more money to pay someone to do our physical things that we are perfectly capable of?  Why drive a 2 ton vehicle 1.5 mile to the store when we can walk it in half an hour or cycle it in 4 minutes?  What will your kids have better memories of, the well made movies 3 times a week, or the same hours of your poorly played ukulele and singing?

We all know the guy who works 60+ hours a week to afford the $50k truck that pulls the $40k boat to the lake on the weekend, and always seems stressed out.  We also know the guy who drive a reasonable used car, no boat, but has a good relationship with his friends and neighbors.  Who do you want to be, and who do you want to spend your time with?

Dicey

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #209 on: October 23, 2017, 11:18:20 AM »
Man. I just responded to, then removed my post in a thread where someone asks how to get his (assuming poster is a guy) wife to be more into MMM. He called his wife's ideas dumb. I was ill tempered, and possibly an asshole.

Sometimes such threads really are worthy of being posted. It's deeply unfair to have a spendthrift spouse drag a responsible spouse down into insolvency. It's equally unfair to use money as some sort of power fulcrum. People in those situations should be supported, and hopefully guided, by the community.

But I'd say a good 50% of spouse threads could be solved by pausing to remember that Pete is one crazy motherfucking dude. If your wife wants a minivan because she spends all her time shoving 3 under-5's into 3-across car seats and it's driving her insane, you don't automatically have the moral high ground because Internet Pete wouldn't bless your purchase. Similarly, if your wife wants a birthday present, buy her a fucking birthday present even though Internet Pete declared all such exchanges stupid. Because people, Internet Pete is very unlikely to snuggle you when you are scared, succor you when you are ill, or provide unto you sexytimes when you are horny.

Some posters seem to forget that basic politeness still applies when discussing your spouse on a random internet forum. So weird. Do not approve.

Bourbon

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #210 on: October 23, 2017, 11:35:05 AM »
PTF

Laura33

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #211 on: October 23, 2017, 11:35:36 AM »
Sol, as usual, on the "can anybody retire early" thread.  Just, damn.

No, not everyone can retiree early.  YOU can retiree early though.

You already have a huge head start.  You are a natural born American citizen.  You received an adequate education that gave you literacy and curiosity and a desire to better yourself.  You are technologically savvy enough to ask the right question in the right place.  You appear to be free from the handicaps of abuse, hunger, inclement weather, or robbery of your personal assets.  You live and work in a society that values and rewards hard work and initiative.  Most of the world is not in such an enviable position, so I think the head start you already have is pretty great.  Just don't waste your golden ticket.

You have youth and health, and the fortunate position of having some secure time to come up with a plan.  The Forbes 400 list is full of people who started out in a worse position than you are in right now and still managed to become billionaires through hard work and calculated risks.  None of them did it on $11/hour, though.  You can read their stories, decide if that's what you want in life, and emulate the blueprint they have followed.  Or pick a different goal, identify the path to get there, and start putting in the hard work required to make it happen.  But whatever it is you want, someone else has already done it and shown you how.  Don't complain about your current circumstances, focus on finding the right path forward.  In your case that could involve a year of reading biographies, introspection, goal setting, and writing a coherent life plan. 

Impoverished people suffer for a variety of reasons, not least of which is a dearth of imagination.  Expand your horizons a little, then figure out if you're willing to work harder and smarter than 99% of people in order to have more success than 99% of people.  You already have a huge head start.

Roe

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #212 on: October 23, 2017, 12:36:33 PM »
Man. I just responded to, then removed my post in a thread where someone asks how to get his (assuming poster is a guy) wife to be more into MMM. He called his wife's ideas dumb. I was ill tempered, and possibly an asshole.

Sometimes such threads really are worthy of being posted. It's deeply unfair to have a spendthrift spouse drag a responsible spouse down into insolvency. It's equally unfair to use money as some sort of power fulcrum. People in those situations should be supported, and hopefully guided, by the community.

But I'd say a good 50% of spouse threads could be solved by pausing to remember that Pete is one crazy motherfucking dude. If your wife wants a minivan because she spends all her time shoving 3 under-5's into 3-across car seats and it's driving her insane, you don't automatically have the moral high ground because Internet Pete wouldn't bless your purchase. Similarly, if your wife wants a birthday present, buy her a fucking birthday present even though Internet Pete declared all such exchanges stupid. Because people, Internet Pete is very unlikely to snuggle you when you are scared, succor you when you are ill, or provide unto you sexytimes when you are horny.

Some posters seem to forget that basic politeness still applies when discussing your spouse on a random internet forum. So weird. Do not approve.

Thanks for bringing that one up, great post.

arebelspy

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #213 on: October 23, 2017, 04:54:39 PM »
If you run the fastest in a race, you get a medal.  The medal doesn't change anything about you.  If another person happens to come to the next race, and you run as fast as before, but he runs faster, he gets the medal.  Nothing about your runnning is changed by the medal.  It's not really the important thing.  Running has made you stronger, healthier, and etc.  If you push yourself too far in an effort to get the medal and get hurt, then did you still really win?  The medal is a fancy decoration made up by some other people.  The process and not the outcomes is what life is!

The whole quote is great, then the culmination in that last sentence... <3
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 05:00:49 PM by arebelspy »
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Kl285528

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #214 on: October 25, 2017, 07:24:43 AM »
If you run the fastest in a race, you get a medal.  The medal doesn't change anything about you.  If another person happens to come to the next race, and you run as fast as before, but he runs faster, he gets the medal.  Nothing about your runnning is changed by the medal.  It's not really the important thing.  Running has made you stronger, healthier, and etc.  If you push yourself too far in an effort to get the medal and get hurt, then did you still really win?  The medal is a fancy decoration made up by some other people.  The process and not the outcomes is what life is!

The whole quote is great, then the culmination in that last sentence... <3
Wow... This put into words a concept I've carried in my brain but could not verbalize. Wow.

GreenSheep

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #215 on: October 25, 2017, 10:07:03 AM »
PTF. Lots of wisdom here.

Abe Froman

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #216 on: October 25, 2017, 11:45:48 AM »
PTF

Chaplin

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #217 on: October 26, 2017, 10:57:22 PM »
If you run the fastest in a race, you get a medal.  The medal doesn't change anything about you.  If another person happens to come to the next race, and you run as fast as before, but he runs faster, he gets the medal.  Nothing about your runnning is changed by the medal.  It's not really the important thing.  Running has made you stronger, healthier, and etc.  If you push yourself too far in an effort to get the medal and get hurt, then did you still really win?  The medal is a fancy decoration made up by some other people.  The process and not the outcomes is what life is!

The whole quote is great, then the culmination in that last sentence... <3

I'll comment on this one as I my PTF. I totally agree about the medals, but I did a race where I placed high enough in the "masters" (40+) to win a growler of beer, not some silly medal. If someone else had run faster I wouldn't have had the beer and I would have been changed - I would have been less happy. This is only in meant in humor of course.

Linda_Norway

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #218 on: October 27, 2017, 01:46:02 AM »
If you run the fastest in a race, you get a medal.  The medal doesn't change anything about you.  If another person happens to come to the next race, and you run as fast as before, but he runs faster, he gets the medal.  Nothing about your runnning is changed by the medal.  It's not really the important thing.  Running has made you stronger, healthier, and etc.  If you push yourself too far in an effort to get the medal and get hurt, then did you still really win?  The medal is a fancy decoration made up by some other people.  The process and not the outcomes is what life is!

The whole quote is great, then the culmination in that last sentence... <3

I'll comment on this one as I my PTF. I totally agree about the medals, but I did a race where I placed high enough in the "masters" (40+) to win a growler of beer, not some silly medal. If someone else had run faster I wouldn't have had the beer and I would have been changed - I would have been less happy. This is only in meant in humor of course.

For professional sports people, there is also a big impact on becoming number 1 or number x behind the winner. Winning means fame, popularity, sponsors, prize money, being invited for competitions/interviewS/TV-shows against high pay.

matchewed

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #219 on: October 27, 2017, 05:28:14 AM »
If you run the fastest in a race, you get a medal.  The medal doesn't change anything about you.  If another person happens to come to the next race, and you run as fast as before, but he runs faster, he gets the medal.  Nothing about your runnning is changed by the medal.  It's not really the important thing.  Running has made you stronger, healthier, and etc.  If you push yourself too far in an effort to get the medal and get hurt, then did you still really win?  The medal is a fancy decoration made up by some other people.  The process and not the outcomes is what life is!

The whole quote is great, then the culmination in that last sentence... <3

I'll comment on this one as I my PTF. I totally agree about the medals, but I did a race where I placed high enough in the "masters" (40+) to win a growler of beer, not some silly medal. If someone else had run faster I wouldn't have had the beer and I would have been changed - I would have been less happy. This is only in meant in humor of course.

For professional sports people, there is also a big impact on becoming number 1 or number x behind the winner. Winning means fame, popularity, sponsors, prize money, being invited for competitions/interviewS/TV-shows against high pay.

I know this is drifting off topic but even in that scenario that didn't change anything about you. Just the things around you.

runbikerun

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #220 on: October 27, 2017, 07:01:28 AM »
For elite sports, though (and some levels below elite!), position relative to others is the entire metric we use. Nobody cares exactly how many hours, minutes and seconds Peter Sagan takes to finish Paris-Roubaix next year: the only thing that matters, the the near-total exclusion of all else, is whether he's first across the line in the velodrome.

Similarly, if a talented amateur triathlete finishes an Ironman in nine hours, that's a hell of an achievement: however, for a lot of them, what matters vastly more is whether they've done well enough in their age category to qualify for Kona. The purpose of the training is to get that invite to the world championship: it's a completely legitimate approach not to care about anything except relative performance.

For what it's worth, I think this is a hugely healthy approach for a Mustachian: it can be very difficult to let go of that competitive drive to outdo your neighbour, and sublimating it into something that improves your health and gets you out into the fresh air is far better than letting it slip into your car purchases or your housing decisions.

marty998

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #221 on: October 28, 2017, 05:24:48 PM »
For elite sports, though (and some levels below elite!), position relative to others is the entire metric we use. Nobody cares exactly how many hours, minutes and seconds Peter Sagan takes to finish Paris-Roubaix next year: the only thing that matters, the the near-total exclusion of all else, is whether he's first across the line in the velodrome.

You can see it on the faces of riders who finish second in a one-day classic or the world champs. There's nothing more disappointing than to ride at full tilt for 7 hours, make a break, hold off the peloton, and get beaten by the length of a tyre rim.

But sorry, that's not the point of this thread :)

runbikerun

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #222 on: October 29, 2017, 02:37:23 AM »
For elite sports, though (and some levels below elite!), position relative to others is the entire metric we use. Nobody cares exactly how many hours, minutes and seconds Peter Sagan takes to finish Paris-Roubaix next year: the only thing that matters, the the near-total exclusion of all else, is whether he's first across the line in the velodrome.

You can see it on the faces of riders who finish second in a one-day classic or the world champs. There's nothing more disappointing than to ride at full tilt for 7 hours, make a break, hold off the peloton, and get beaten by the length of a tyre rim.

But sorry, that's not the point of this thread :)

True, it is a little off topic!

HappierAtHome

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #223 on: October 29, 2017, 02:55:02 AM »
Man. I just responded to, then removed my post in a thread where someone asks how to get his (assuming poster is a guy) wife to be more into MMM. He called his wife's ideas dumb. I was ill tempered, and possibly an asshole.

Sometimes such threads really are worthy of being posted. It's deeply unfair to have a spendthrift spouse drag a responsible spouse down into insolvency. It's equally unfair to use money as some sort of power fulcrum. People in those situations should be supported, and hopefully guided, by the community.

But I'd say a good 50% of spouse threads could be solved by pausing to remember that Pete is one crazy motherfucking dude. If your wife wants a minivan because she spends all her time shoving 3 under-5's into 3-across car seats and it's driving her insane, you don't automatically have the moral high ground because Internet Pete wouldn't bless your purchase. Similarly, if your wife wants a birthday present, buy her a fucking birthday present even though Internet Pete declared all such exchanges stupid. Because people, Internet Pete is very unlikely to snuggle you when you are scared, succor you when you are ill, or provide unto you sexytimes when you are horny.

Some posters seem to forget that basic politeness still applies when discussing your spouse on a random internet forum. So weird. Do not approve.

That post of Sam's is still one of my all-time favourites.

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #224 on: October 29, 2017, 03:22:47 AM »
Man. I just responded to, then removed my post in a thread where someone asks how to get his (assuming poster is a guy) wife to be more into MMM. He called his wife's ideas dumb. I was ill tempered, and possibly an asshole.

Sometimes such threads really are worthy of being posted. It's deeply unfair to have a spendthrift spouse drag a responsible spouse down into insolvency. It's equally unfair to use money as some sort of power fulcrum. People in those situations should be supported, and hopefully guided, by the community.

But I'd say a good 50% of spouse threads could be solved by pausing to remember that Pete is one crazy motherfucking dude. If your wife wants a minivan because she spends all her time shoving 3 under-5's into 3-across car seats and it's driving her insane, you don't automatically have the moral high ground because Internet Pete wouldn't bless your purchase. Similarly, if your wife wants a birthday present, buy her a fucking birthday present even though Internet Pete declared all such exchanges stupid. Because people, Internet Pete is very unlikely to snuggle you when you are scared, succor you when you are ill, or provide unto you sexytimes when you are horny.

Some posters seem to forget that basic politeness still applies when discussing your spouse on a random internet forum. So weird. Do not approve.

That post of Sam's is still one of my all-time favourites.

This is a great post.  Human relationships are so complex.  Going through life in a three legged race with someone else is not easy - especially when sharing finances and children.  It's a wonder that it works out as often as it does.  Those of us with un-mustachian spouses need to value what we have and not be jerks about it.

Dicey

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #225 on: October 29, 2017, 06:16:51 AM »
Nope. Sam just outdid even Sam on another thread. Hold that thought while I go rummage around to find it...

Okay, here's my question, followed by SS's brilliant response...

Someone help me out gently here, please. I always thought that if a person who identifies as heterosexual called someone who identifies as homosexual "queer" that it was considered a slur and beyond rude. I've heard my gay friends refer to themselves as "queer", but I thought it was, I dunno, an inside term, so to speak?

Maybe I'm just hopelessly out of it. Mostly I just call my gay friends by their names, not by a label. Dunno.

Also, I admire Erica's willingness to voice her concerns, based on her own experience. I am not saying that I am in agreement. However, since the topic's been broached, I am seeking to understand the use of this specific term.

And no misguided hate, please. I've loved and lost more gay friends than I care to count. The silver lining, if there is one, is at least nowadays they're dying of old age. Damn it.

Finally, apologies for the late response. I missed this thread completely until now. Congratulations on your success, M2!

BTW, my kitty, who I inherited when her gay daddy died, completely approves. She can't wait to get her own copy so she can chew all the corners.

Hey Dicey, my perspective is that the non-pejorative uses of the word queer is a generational thing.

I was born in 1980. My world was formed by Ryan White, Matthew Sheppard, Ellen DeGeneres. Gay culture was confined to the big cities. As a kid I knew about funny men because of the AIDS epidemic. I didn't women could also be funny until 1993, when Ellen DeGeneres caused such a stir. The state mandated sexual education at my school was strictly about how babies were made. Anything extraneous to babies was left out, and I had no idea women could have orgasms until one very surprising day in the early 90's. We played smear the queer at recess, the populace called for ghettoization of anyone with AIDS. There was no Gay Straight Alliance. The internet didn't really exist. Don't Ask, Don't Tell was seen as a progressive and merciful policy. "That's so gay" rang through the halls of my highschool to note anything stupid, dumb, or ugly. I was tainted. It was isolating. I wanted to die. Hearing the word queer from a heterosexual person could never be anything besides an epitaph, and it was rarely positive even from a homosexual person.

Adults born 10 or 15 years after me had a completely different experience. People with HIV lived. Will and Grace was on mainstream TV. Queer as Folk, and the L word were on the edgier channels. Gay culture cropped up in smaller cities, even towns. Civil unions were declared legal. Gay Straight Alliances were formed in schools. Safe spaces. Sexuality was a discussion people were having. The internet provides support and community. To these slightly younger people, the reclamation of the word queer was a powerful thing. To a half generation younger than me, queer is a word that's sometimes negative, and sometimes positive, depending on the speaker. Much like the reclamation of racial pejoratives among the subjugated class.

Now, the word has dropped even more of it's negative connotations, thanks to the transgender and pansexual movements. The boxes for gay, straight, and bi-sexual are too confining. Especially when viewed through the idea that allowing for only two genders is equally confining. If you happen to be a gender fluid young person, and you're making eyes at someone who was genetically born male but is taking androgen blockers because she definitely know's she's a fabulous girl...well, what is that? What word could you use to encompass what you're feeling? You aren't gay, and you aren't straight, but you can certainly be queer. So now, for people born 20 to 25 years after me, queer is just what they are. Sure, sometimes the word gets miss-used by assholes, but fuck that noise.

So, that leaves us with your question: if a person who identifies as heterosexual called someone who identifies as homosexual "queer" that it was considered a slur. The answer is, it depends. I shudder when I encounter the word queer; MonsterMonster embraces it. Different people, slightly different generations. As with many personal things, the best thing to do is simply ask the person directly their opinion.

To close this wall of text, I'll point out that your question is very obviously from a standpoint of curiosity and a desire to learn. Thanks for being cool.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 06:38:57 AM by Dicey »

human

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #226 on: October 29, 2017, 06:29:55 AM »
Man. I just responded to, then removed my post in a thread where someone asks how to get his (assuming poster is a guy) wife to be more into MMM. He called his wife's ideas dumb. I was ill tempered, and possibly an asshole.

Sometimes such threads really are worthy of being posted. It's deeply unfair to have a spendthrift spouse drag a responsible spouse down into insolvency. It's equally unfair to use money as some sort of power fulcrum. People in those situations should be supported, and hopefully guided, by the community.

But I'd say a good 50% of spouse threads could be solved by pausing to remember that Pete is one crazy motherfucking dude. If your wife wants a minivan because she spends all her time shoving 3 under-5's into 3-across car seats and it's driving her insane, you don't automatically have the moral high ground because Internet Pete wouldn't bless your purchase. Similarly, if your wife wants a birthday present, buy her a fucking birthday present even though Internet Pete declared all such exchanges stupid. Because people, Internet Pete is very unlikely to snuggle you when you are scared, succor you when you are ill, or provide unto you sexytimes when you are horny.

Some posters seem to forget that basic politeness still applies when discussing your spouse on a random internet forum. So weird. Do not approve.

That post of Sam's is still one of my all-time favourites.

This is a great post.  Human relationships are so complex.  Going through life in a three legged race with someone else is not easy - especially when sharing finances and children.  It's a wonder that it works out as often as it does.  Those of us with un-mustachian spouses need to value what we have and not be jerks about it.

So I guess Pete is the consumption police and you all are the relationship morality police? Get over yourselves. It's subie v. Minivan don't turn it into some opportunity to demonstrate to everyone what a man bun flip flop wearing guru you are.

MOD EDIT: No.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2017, 10:34:46 PM by arebelspy »

nereo

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #227 on: October 29, 2017, 06:36:30 AM »
[snip]
This is a great post.  Human relationships are so complex.  Going through life in a three legged race with someone else is not easy - especially when sharing finances and children.  It's a wonder that it works out as often as it does.  Those of us with un-mustachian spouses need to value what we have and not be jerks about it.

So I guess Pete is the consumption police and you all are the relationship morality police? Get over yourselves. It's subie v. Minivan don't turn it into some opportunity to demonstrate to everyone what a man bun flip flop wearing guru you are.

Let's stick to the forum rules, please (spec 1, 2, & 4)

meerkat

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #228 on: October 29, 2017, 08:21:17 AM »
That was a great post Dicey, thanks for sharing it - and thanks Sam for putting those words down and sharing it with the internet.

Loren Ver

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #229 on: October 31, 2017, 06:01:44 PM »
PTF

Kitsunegari

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #230 on: October 31, 2017, 07:29:53 PM »
PTF too

techwiz

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #231 on: November 02, 2017, 08:41:32 PM »
Ptf 3

CogentCap

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #232 on: November 04, 2017, 02:26:23 PM »
following

solon

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #233 on: November 04, 2017, 02:32:57 PM »
Rather than post "PTF" you could just post something awesome you saw on the forums...

englishteacheralex

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #234 on: November 04, 2017, 03:01:25 PM »
Not to be a dingbat, but I don't actually know how to cross quote a post. I know how to cut and paste text from posts, but I don't know how to take a quote from one thread and then post it in a different thread.

former player

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #235 on: November 04, 2017, 03:28:26 PM »
Not to be a dingbat, but I don't actually know how to cross quote a post. I know how to cut and paste text from posts, but I don't know how to take a quote from one thread and then post it in a different thread.
There may be a technically approved method, but my technologically challenged method is to have both threads open at the same time, use the quote feature to create a reply in the first thread and then copy the text in that reply box to the reply box in the second.

CanuckExpat

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #236 on: November 05, 2017, 01:27:02 PM »
The recent discussions in the Stop Worrying About the 4% Rule thread inspired by a Q&A with Wade Pfau really brought home the fact that while the term "4% Rule" is widely used in retirement circles often we are not using it to say the same thing, which leads to confusion and unnecessary debate.

Working from the same $1M starting portfolio and $40K/yr spend incl taxes...

Pfau's 4% Rule:
- spend $40K/yr + inflation every year without fail
- zero non-essential spending
- never go back to work or do anything to earn money
- paying high fees [1%] is unavoidable
- a conservative 60/40 portfolio is smart risk management
- using 25% worse than worst case historical scenarios is smart risk management
- not factoring Gov't benefits because they may change
- 30yr success rate = 70%
- 40yr success rate = 49% [estimated from his Q&A and cFIREsim]
- 50yr success rate = 33% [estimated from his Q&A and cFIREsim]

MMM-esque 4% Rule

- spend $30K - $50K/yr depending on needs and market returns
- adjust for inflation as needed
- $8K/yr non-essential deferrable spending
- okay with an easy $10K/yr PT job if needed
- use historical data
- more aggressive portfolio 90/10
- low fees no problem [~0.11%]
- factoring in reasonable assumptions for Gov't benefits
- 30yr success rate = 100% based on cFIREsim
- 40yr success rate = 100% based on cFIREsim
- 50yr success rate = 100% based on cFIREsim

One on hand you have an analysis that leaves the author deeply concerned about a short 30yr old retiree's chances for success let alone an early retiree with a 40yr or 50yr+ retirement. On the other hand you've got me and a bunch of other MMM types who are mystified by the pessimism/doom and gloom around the 4% Rule. The problem of course is that we are not talking about the same thing. 

The solution is not that we all have to agree 100%, but we do need to understand why we disagree so that folks can clearly appreciate the opportunity cost of pessimistic assumptions or from Pfau's perspective the risks of optimistic assumptions.

I'll likely FIRE at a 4.5%WR for me to get to a Pfau approved 3%WR using a 7% market return after inflation and a $30K/yr spending addition working FT it would take me an extra 5.5 years of FT work. 5.5 years chained to a desk with all the negative health and personal relationship impacts that entails. Not to mention retiring at 56 vs. 50 thereby giving up more than half a decade at the prime of my life. That's a steep price to pay in my books so I'd want to be sure I understood what my other options were.

maizeman

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #237 on: November 05, 2017, 01:43:36 PM »
That's a good one. I try to lurk on RC's journal, but the forums have been so active recently that I missed this post, thanks for highlighting it CanuckExpat!

FireLane

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #238 on: November 07, 2017, 05:40:36 AM »
I liked this from the Overheard at Work thread:

Staples and basic goods are as cheap as ever. Rice/beans/oatmeal/frozen veggies (simple meals cooked at home), basic clothing items, econobox cars, TV antenna, etc. If you purchased the same staple basket as your grandparents did, your purchasing power has probably gone way up. 

But our cultural expectation for what constitutes a good standard of living has increased dramatically. People define "the good life" as eating out frequently, drinking at bars, fast fashion, cars that are fun to drive, new furniture, subscription boxes, etc.

Health insurance and housing (in many markets) have gone way up in relative terms, but so has our demand for fancier housing (laundry rooms, dishwashers, granite countertops, garages, closet space, etc) as well as way more square footage per person.

This is one of the core messages of Mustachianism. When someone complains about having to cook at home, they're ignoring the incredible luxury of having enough food to eat that day. Someone complaining about their shitty beater car is probably still driving one of the most reliable cars ever manufactured. By almost any objective standard, basic living conditions on Earth are better than they have ever been for an increasing swath of the population. But you have to get off the consumerist treadmill of hedonistic adaptation first to realize that pursuit of more material goods won't make you happy.

arebelspy

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #239 on: November 07, 2017, 06:30:30 AM »
Staples and basic goods are as cheap as ever. Rice/beans/oatmeal/frozen veggies (simple meals cooked at home), basic clothing items, econobox cars, TV antenna, etc. If you purchased the same staple basket as your grandparents did, your purchasing power has probably gone way up. 

But our cultural expectation for what constitutes a good standard of living has increased dramatically. People define "the good life" as eating out frequently, drinking at bars, fast fashion, cars that are fun to drive, new furniture, subscription boxes, etc.

I wrote a whole guest post on the blog about this one time, backing it up with numbers.

...and that was apparently over 5 years ago.  Time flies.  :)
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Moonwaves

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #240 on: November 07, 2017, 09:54:44 AM »
Posting just the quote from Rinch without the link part, as this was in a journal. Just a tiny bit of a short discussion on what FIRE means for people who are glad to have discovered it because it gives them hope of actually being able to retire at all, even if the early part might not be possible. Thought it was a nice way to think about it.

Quote
All in all it's a sliding scale from easy to impossible I'm hoping to move along a bit, not a binary work/don't work switch. 

sherr

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #241 on: November 07, 2017, 12:26:19 PM »
Not to be a dingbat, but I don't actually know how to cross quote a post. I know how to cut and paste text from posts, but I don't know how to take a quote from one thread and then post it in a different thread.
There may be a technically approved method, but my technologically challenged method is to have both threads open at the same time, use the quote feature to create a reply in the first thread and then copy the text in that reply box to the reply box in the second.

I think that's the correct way. Note the specifics there that are important:
  • click "quote" in the original thread
  • copy that whole block of text into this post.

It's important because of the metadata in the quote tag, "link=topic=40752.msg1759432#msg1759432" or similar. That's what allows the forum to link back to the original message in the original thread. If you simply open a new post here, hit the "Insert Quote" button, and then copy-and-paste the text then that link will be lost.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 02:35:32 PM by sherr »

tralfamadorian

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #242 on: November 07, 2017, 02:22:20 PM »
I use a pretty simple test for determining whether it's a good idea for me to try stock picking: I go and take a look at the times for the men's 5,000 metres at the last Olympics.

Wait, bear with me.

In the market, the vast majority of actively traded money and stocks is in the control of professional money managers of one stripe or another. They're generally extremely intelligent, work incredibly hard, and are backed up by some of the most advanced analytical tools money can buy. And, generally speaking, they don't successfully outperform index funds.

If I decide that I can actively trade in this world and do better than the weighted average of this market, then I'm also implicitly deciding that my estimation of likely market moves is superior to that of some of the smartest, hardest-working people in the world. As mrspendy puts it, stock picking is an arrogant act.

This is why I look at the 5,000 metres. Thanks to the sheer weight of the biggest and most professionalised players in the market, trading in the stock market is roughly equivalent to running a 5k against Olympian specialists. Successfully competing at that level involves being the trading equivalent of an Olympic finalist. I know what my best 5k time is, and I can compare it to the last-placed finalist from Rio.

It turns out that Joshua Cheptegei ran that final in 13:09. My personal best is a solid eight minutes slower than that. Not only can I not run that kind of pace, I'd be out of my goddamned mind to imagine I could ever run that kind of pace. I am not lean enough. I am not long-legged enough. I do not cool fast enough. I do not train enough. I will never train enough. But if running was like investing, I could beat Cheptegei and claim a time of 13:06 and change, simply by indexing my run. No 5am alarms for double sessions, no vomiting on the side of the track after one sprint too many, no skipping roast potatoes at Christmas because it doesn't match my diet. Instead I just sign a piece of paper that says I understand I'll get the average time from the final, and I magically lose thirty kilos and gain fifty watts on my power threshold.

In other words:
1. The existence of the index fund is like being able to become a sub-14-minute 5k runner by signing a document.
2. Given that there are no medals for being best at retiring, refusing to sign that document because you think you can train hard enough to go to 13:03 is not a particularly sane option for people simply aiming to retire early.

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #243 on: November 08, 2017, 08:39:39 AM »
I always think of the "$40k gift to buy a car question" when I think about the difference between BH, ER.org, MMM, and ERE.

Basicly: if someone gave you $40k and said you had to use some or all of it to buy a vehicle what would you buy.

A BH would put the who $40k as a down payment on a $100k luxury car and work longer to pay for it.
An ER.org person would buy a new $40k sensible sedan.
A MMM person.would buy a used Prius for $20k and invest the rest...in Vanguard.
An ERE person would buy a $10 used bike at the thrift store and use the remainer to retire on.

Even though this is tongue-in-cheek, I liked this a lot because I read ERE and MMM. Haven't checked out the other two resources, but they definitely wouldn't surprise me :)

BiochemicalDJ

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #244 on: November 10, 2017, 12:31:03 PM »
Someone recently said "Why save?  I could die tomorrow."

People seem so defeated.  They just say F it and keep spending like there is no tomorrow.  I try to lend advice, and it falls on deaf ears.

My preferred response to "Why save? I could die tomorrow." is "But the overwhelming odds are that you won't, in which case you're going to need to provide for yourself and have something set aside for emergencies, instead of becoming a burden to others the first time something unexpected comes up."

That's the best response I could think of, and I never thought to say it. I'm taking it with me for the future.

solon

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #245 on: November 10, 2017, 02:39:22 PM »
I always think of the "$40k gift to buy a car question" when I think about the difference between BH, ER.org, MMM, and ERE.

Basicly: if someone gave you $40k and said you had to use some or all of it to buy a vehicle what would you buy.

A BH would put the who $40k as a down payment on a $100k luxury car and work longer to pay for it.
An ER.org person would buy a new $40k sensible sedan.
A MMM person.would buy a used Prius for $20k and invest the rest...in Vanguard.
An ERE person would buy a $10 used bike at the thrift store and use the remainer to retire on.

Even though this is tongue-in-cheek, I liked this a lot because I read ERE and MMM. Haven't checked out the other two resources, but they definitely wouldn't surprise me :)
Oh that Spartana. She's so funny  ;-). Posting to follow

This is also an excellent thought-provoking question. I'm going to ask my kids, "if someone gave you $40k to buy a car...", give them the four choices, and discuss their answers.

nereo

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #246 on: November 10, 2017, 03:34:49 PM »
I always think of the "$40k gift to buy a car question" when I think about the difference between BH, ER.org, MMM, and ERE.

Basicly: if someone gave you $40k and said you had to use some or all of it to buy a vehicle what would you buy.

A BH would put the who $40k as a down payment on a $100k luxury car and work longer to pay for it.
An ER.org person would buy a new $40k sensible sedan.
A MMM person.would buy a used Prius for $20k and invest the rest...in Vanguard.
An ERE person would buy a $10 used bike at the thrift store and use the remainer to retire on.

Even though this is tongue-in-cheek, I liked this a lot because I read ERE and MMM. Haven't checked out the other two resources, but they definitely wouldn't surprise me :)
Oh that Spartana. She's so funny  ;-). Posting to follow

This is also an excellent thought-provoking question. I'm going to ask my kids, "if someone gave you $40k to buy a car...", give them the four choices, and discuss their answers.
I'm a bit surprised by the idea of a MMMer paying $20k for a used Prius - that's practically brand new. I would have said $8k (with the rest going into Vanguard).

nereo

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #247 on: November 14, 2017, 08:11:45 AM »
Laura33's response on how to deal with spendy family members (and timely with the holidays approaching)
Link to thread here.
...
Just wondering how people (Mustachians especially) deal with family members who equate "togetherness" with "spending lots of money."
Honestly, your sister sounds like a bully.  Yeah, it's possible she sees your response as a slight on your relationship, but it's more likely that she knows that family togetherness is your weak spot, so she dove right for it to try to guilt you into changing your mind.  You need a consistent, calm response that you whip out every time she pulls this, along the lines of, "gee, I'd love to spend time with you, but that's not in my budget.  Can we have dinner at my place instead?"  [Or insert some other free/cheap get-together]  If she really is clueless, repeatedly offering her a simpler alternative will emphasize that you do want to get together; if she's just using it as a guilt trip to bend you to her will, the consistent response will eventually persuade her that you are done being a pushover. 

Also, expect it to get worse before it gets better -- people who are used to getting their way will tend to get even more aggressive the first time you say no, because they are used to you giving in, so they just assume if they push harder, you will resume your rightful (submissive) role.  Kind of like kids and tantrums, btw -- this is basically an adult tantrum, and so treating it as such tends to work very well.  FWIW, remaining calm and saying the same thing over and over will drive this kind of personality nuts more quickly than anything else -- first you're not doing what she wants, and now she can't even get you upset or angry or guilty about it?  It just sucks all of her power away from her, if she is so insignificant that she can't even ruffle your feathers.

And, yeah, I do have one of these.  I still remember when my SIL invited us and her other sister out to a very fancy restaurant (one of those with a famous-name chef) to celebrate her birthday.  DH and I were just married and had just bought a townhouse, so I was worried at the cost, but the SIL had introduced us and was clearly excited to have me in the family and wanted to include me, so I put my hesitations aside and went.  And boy had she set this up -- she had gotten the chef's table and set up this fantastic menu (e.g., we were greeted with the largest tray of charcuterie I have ever seen), which was definitely delicious, but waaaaay more food than we could possibly eat, and of course paired bottles of wine with each course.  And then she presented us with the tab.  For like $800*.  Because after all it was her birthday. 

WTF?  Who does that?  If she'd asked if I wanted to take her out for her birthday, I'd have said of course, and chosen a reasonable restaurant -- or at a bare minimum, taken over the planning to keep the menu and wine reasonable (we could easily have eaten at the same restaurant for less than half that cost).  But being presented with the check at the end was a real dick move that left us feeling like we had to pay to preserve family harmony.  And it was delicious, but not $400 delicious.  I really felt bad for her other sister, though, who made a lot less than the rest of us at the time -- I mean, you just don't do that, period, but you sure as hell don't do that to people who make maybe half of what you do.  Lucky for me, SIL was just clueless, not mean-spirited, and she's changed her ways since then. 

*Note that this was 20 years ago.  By today's inflated dining-out standards, it would probably have exceeded $2K.

DTaggart

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #248 on: November 14, 2017, 12:36:27 PM »
PJ and Dollar Slice discussing the wonders of autocorrect:

Seriously though, now you get to hear my rant about autocorrect and predictive text. 

I have no idea what your man, autocorrect is a fantastic intercom. I don't know what I would do without is most helpful circus to my text. Technology week face is all.

(This post is brought to you by Swype and autocorrect)

You have certain change my mind about autocorrect with you expecting text imonial. I will available criticizes this except technician in the future. I have been conversation to it's glorifying uses.

Thanks you for sharpener your store.

Louisville

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Re: The best post I saw today on the Mr Money Mustache forums was...
« Reply #249 on: November 14, 2017, 12:40:19 PM »
PJ and Dollar Slice discussing the wonders of autocorrect:

Seriously though, now you get to hear my rant about autocorrect and predictive text. 

I have no idea what your man, autocorrect is a fantastic intercom. I don't know what I would do without is most helpful circus to my text. Technology week face is all.

(This post is brought to you by Swype and autocorrect)

You have certain change my mind about autocorrect with you expecting text imonial. I will available criticizes this except technician in the future. I have been conversation to it's glorifying uses.

Thanks you for sharpener your store.

Engrish?