Author Topic: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.  (Read 71246 times)

Imma

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #950 on: August 06, 2018, 12:31:03 PM »
Imma - aren't you in the Netherlands?  I thought that the Netherlands was a paradise of part time work?  I have Italian friends who moved there and marvelled at how short the working hours are generally and how so many people work part time even in professional jobs.

Would it be possible for you to just get a 30 hours a week job and not disclose your health issue?  I have a health issue too but it does not stop me working full time.  However, even so I keep my mouth shut about it at work.  Maybe you could just say that you're looking for a part time lawyer job and not give them a reason why since so many Dutch people work PT?

I wish! If that was an option I would certainly do it. But it very much depends on the field and law is notoriously traditional. It's totally accepted (and actually a legal right) to request a switch to parttime once you've worked somewhere for a few years but in a traditional field like law it's very difficult to find jobs that are parttime from the start. Law is also pretty competative. In my case it's hard to not tell anything about my health, because I have a gap in my resume from when I had medical complications that resulted in a cancer scare + operation, a minor stroke and big personal problems, all at the same time. It took me a while to get back on my feet (thankfully I had savings!). In my experience, if you try to brush over a gap like that, without offering an explanation, people will assume the worst.   

In some fields (the ones that are traditionally female like nursing and education) it's the other way round, it can even be hard finding a fulltime job. Right now I work in finance, I have a well paid job that's officially 20 hours (on average about 28 a week with paid overtime) and parttime jobs like these in admin / finance are pretty easy to find. I've worked my way up over the years and in my current position I get to deal with a bit of legal stuff, but the admin part just bores me so much. My employer knows about my condition, but other than that you are right about keeping your mouth shut. I have never told them any details.

I will continue to work parttime in finance / admin as long as necessary to provide me with an income, but I would love to have a side hustle that really challenges me. I'm also working on an article for a scientific journal in my spare time. Even though that's unpaid, it's very challenging and I would be so happy to get it published, and maybe it will improve my chances of getting a job in law.

Hula Hoop

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #951 on: August 06, 2018, 01:40:45 PM »
Imma - thanks for the explanation.  What a bummer that your field is so traditional.  I didn't realize that it was mostly traditionally 'female' jobs where PT work is so accepted.  Does that mean that more women than men work PT? 

When I was really sick, I was out of work for 4 months. Most of that time I was in hospital.  But I already had a "permanent" full time job to go back to.  I was very fortunate as Italian sick leave is amazing so I was paid my full salary the entire time I was out sick.  I still tend not to talk about my illness.  When I go to the cardiologist (I have heart disease) I just say "I've got a doctor's appointment."

Antonn Park

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #952 on: August 06, 2018, 05:31:41 PM »
I don't get it why Amazon packs small items into large boxes or why some people find it all right to fight in public (I live right in the city).

shelivesthedream

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #953 on: August 06, 2018, 06:20:34 PM »
I watched a documentary about AI once, and IIRC a computer knows the theoretical dimensions of the object and tells the employee which of the standard sized boxes to pack into. Sometimes it's that the dims are wrong and sometimes that unfortunately just one dimension means it has to go in a bigger box than seems reasonable.

Nicholas Carter

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #954 on: August 07, 2018, 06:14:51 AM »
I don't get it why Amazon packs small items into large boxes or why some people find it all right to fight in public (I live right in the city).
It has something to do with the number of packages that is most profitable to move in an Amazon truck. The truck has to be large enough for that number of really big packages to fit, but putting more small packages into the truck doesn't work for some reason, and having the truck half full leads to piles of boxes falling over. So they just add more box, to make the truck full.

I'm a red panda

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #955 on: August 07, 2018, 08:09:47 AM »
I watched a documentary about AI once, and IIRC a computer knows the theoretical dimensions of the object and tells the employee which of the standard sized boxes to pack into. Sometimes it's that the dims are wrong and sometimes that unfortunately just one dimension means it has to go in a bigger box than seems reasonable.

And sometimes the line is out of a certain size of box, and it makes more sense to keep the line moving so the computer adjusts for the boxes available, rather than stopping the line to replenish the boxes. 

The packers can't make their own decisions. They HAVE to do what the computer tells them to do.

mak1277

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #956 on: August 07, 2018, 08:57:37 AM »
I don't get people who are obsessed with "optimization".  I'm a firm practicer of the 80/20 rule and believer in the concept that "perfect is the enemy of good enough"

Imma

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #957 on: August 07, 2018, 10:29:36 AM »
Imma - thanks for the explanation.  What a bummer that your field is so traditional.  I didn't realize that it was mostly traditionally 'female' jobs where PT work is so accepted.  Does that mean that more women than men work PT? 

When I was really sick, I was out of work for 4 months. Most of that time I was in hospital.  But I already had a "permanent" full time job to go back to.  I was very fortunate as Italian sick leave is amazing so I was paid my full salary the entire time I was out sick.  I still tend not to talk about my illness.  When I go to the cardiologist (I have heart disease) I just say "I've got a doctor's appointment."

It works like that in here as well. Once you have a permanent job, you keep your job and your full wage for 2 years. After that there's there's social security. I got ill when I was 16, before I had a job, otherwise I wouldn't have had any problems.

In my personal environment, about half of women without kids work parttime, almost no men without kids work parttime, soms dads work parttime and almost every mother works parttime. So no, it's not completely equal. I kind of go back and forth on this issue. One hand hand, there's not enough diversity in the boardroom, in the government, etc and I do think that's a problem. In my field, as much women as men enter the law field, but partners in law firms are often 80% men, and few of the women in those positions have children.
 On the other hand I can totally understand why someone (male or female) would not want a job with a terrible work/life balance. It seems that to many women (and an increasing amount of young men) it's just not worth it. According to statistics, about 70% of college educated women are economically independent from their husbands, but only 25% of women without a degree are. I think the most important goal for all women is to stay economically independent. For some reason our mentality is very liberal and still most couples in the end lead a fairly traditional life, out of choice (or habit?).

FIRE@50

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #958 on: August 07, 2018, 10:37:51 AM »
I don't get it why Amazon packs small items into large boxes or why some people find it all right to fight in public (I live right in the city).
Rule #1 of Fight Club is pretty clear.

Hula Hoop

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #959 on: August 07, 2018, 02:48:47 PM »
I think the most important goal for all women is to stay economically independent. For some reason our mentality is very liberal and still most couples in the end lead a fairly traditional life, out of choice (or habit?).

Wow that is quite surprising that part time work is so gender imbalanced.  Here in Italy, part time work is very rare.  Maybe it's just the circles I move in but most of the women with kids I know work full time and many of them are the breadwinners like I am.  Italians always think of Northern European countries like the Netherlands as being more enlightened on gender issues but maybe not. 

Hirondelle

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #960 on: August 07, 2018, 03:00:44 PM »
I think the most important goal for all women is to stay economically independent. For some reason our mentality is very liberal and still most couples in the end lead a fairly traditional life, out of choice (or habit?).

Wow that is quite surprising that part time work is so gender imbalanced.  Here in Italy, part time work is very rare.  Maybe it's just the circles I move in but most of the women with kids I know work full time and many of them are the breadwinners like I am.  Italians always think of Northern European countries like the Netherlands as being more enlightened on gender issues but maybe not.

I guess it does depend on what angle you're looking from. If you consider the "old fashioned" way of being a SAHM vs. working fulltime, where most women chose to be a SAHM, parttime work is a great solution that allows women to stay in the workforce while raising a family. However, nowadays in many countries women want to stay in the workforce (either due to financial or personal reasons) which makes us parttime addicts look like we're 'behind' on these issues.

I think it's great that the option for parttime work is so widely accepted. That's it's mostly conducted by women is a cultural habit that might evade over time or not. I am sometimes surprised though at female friends who start a career with parttime hours without any particular reason for it (no kids or health issues) while the boyfriend is working fulltime.

driftwood

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #961 on: August 07, 2018, 03:17:39 PM »
I think the most important goal for all women is to stay economically independent. For some reason our mentality is very liberal and still most couples in the end lead a fairly traditional life, out of choice (or habit?).

I don't understand how this could work... if both men and women had the #1 goal in their life of being economically independent, then you'd have to be FIRE before having kids, if you wanted either parent to stay home with them. If you're going to hire someone for childcare, I guess both could remain economically independent while still having kids.

If either parent is going to give up money-earning hours of their day to be with the kids, that would make them less economically independent. So if a woman's 'most important' goal is to stay economically independent, she'd need to have kids with a man who is willing to be economically dependent on her while he stays home with the kids (Unless one is already FIREd). Isn't part of the family unit concept an interdependence on each other so each can accomplish different things? I do understand that the interdependence leaves one or both vulnerable after a break-up, but that's a risk we take. The alternative is to remain fiercely independent of all others, but you lose some benefits too.

okonomiyaki

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #962 on: August 07, 2018, 03:30:31 PM »
Quote
I guess it does depend on what angle you're looking from. If you consider the "old fashioned" way of being a SAHM vs. working fulltime, where most women chose to be a SAHM, parttime work is a great solution that allows women to stay in the workforce while raising a family. However, nowadays in many countries women want to stay in the workforce (either due to financial or personal reasons) which makes us parttime addicts look like we're 'behind' on these issues.
Itís often a financial decision. Here in Aus, I think only 25% of women with kids work full time, 50% part time, the rest not at all. Itís quite horrible when you have a child, and everyone suddenly expects your career to take a back seat, and schedules school meeting 2pm on a weekday... but then due to the gender pay gap, it IS financially more viable for families to have the mum take the career hit, feminist views out the wiindow...

driftwood

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #963 on: August 07, 2018, 04:03:22 PM »
Quote
I guess it does depend on what angle you're looking from. If you consider the "old fashioned" way of being a SAHM vs. working fulltime, where most women chose to be a SAHM, parttime work is a great solution that allows women to stay in the workforce while raising a family. However, nowadays in many countries women want to stay in the workforce (either due to financial or personal reasons) which makes us parttime addicts look like we're 'behind' on these issues.
Itís often a financial decision. Here in Aus, I think only 25% of women with kids work full time, 50% part time, the rest not at all. Itís quite horrible when you have a child, and everyone suddenly expects your career to take a back seat, and schedules school meeting 2pm on a weekday... but then due to the gender pay gap, it IS financially more viable for families to have the mum take the career hit, feminist views out the wiindow...

+1 on the school meetings. We just moved back to the US and I was looking at getting involved in the PTA. All the meetings are during the work day, not during a time that would work for someone with a job. So I guess PTA isn't for parents, it's for unemployed parents. Grrr.

Imma

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #964 on: August 07, 2018, 04:13:25 PM »
I think the most important goal for all women is to stay economically independent. For some reason our mentality is very liberal and still most couples in the end lead a fairly traditional life, out of choice (or habit?).

I don't understand how this could work... if both men and women had the #1 goal in their life of being economically independent, then you'd have to be FIRE before having kids, if you wanted either parent to stay home with them. If you're going to hire someone for childcare, I guess both could remain economically independent while still having kids.

If either parent is going to give up money-earning hours of their day to be with the kids, that would make them less economically independent. So if a woman's 'most important' goal is to stay economically independent, she'd need to have kids with a man who is willing to be economically dependent on her while he stays home with the kids (Unless one is already FIREd). Isn't part of the family unit concept an interdependence on each other so each can accomplish different things? I do understand that the interdependence leaves one or both vulnerable after a break-up, but that's a risk we take. The alternative is to remain fiercely independent of all others, but you lose some benefits too.

You make it sound a bit extreme, I don't think it's that black and white.

I believe both partners should make it a priority to remain economically independent - that means, having a way to support yourself and possible dependants. It doesn't have to mean FI. Yes, it does mean that choosing to stay at home with your kids, without any significant assets to your name, and not doing any activities at all that you can put on your resume, to me, is a very bad idea. Of course, it's not always a choice for someone to not be economically independent, but I do believe it should be a goal.

I think the best case scenario (outside of FIRE)  is for both parents to work parttime. This means that parents will be able to keep their day-care costs low, while they both have a lot of hands-on time with their kid and also stay economically independent. I also believe that going to daycare or having a nanny is good for a child's development (except for very young babies). Having one parent stay at home indefinitely is something people should only do when they already have significant assets + life insurance + preferably the stay at home partner should start a consulting gig or another type of business or enroll in a course to make sure they don't totally ruin their chances on the job market.

Of course, in some situations, one parent bringing in the income and the other one staying at home works perfectly. I don't see a lot of examples of this in my personal life, but I'm sure it happens. But it can lead to awful situations. I know many examples of women trapped in a relationship because they couldn't afford to live on their own, women getting into financial difficulties after their partner dies, breadwinners getting a severe disability, etc etc etc. To me, being part of a family union means that someone has your back when shit hits the fan, but it also means taking responsability. And one very responsible thing to do is to not make your entire family's financial future dependent on one breadwinner.

In my current relationship, we are both financially independent from each other. It means that we both earn enough to live off on our own, if we wanted to. It means that when something happens, I can pack my bag and leave. It means that if my partner would die tomorrow, it would be a huge emotional loss, but it would not affect my financial future - and this happens, a 40-year old lady I know was widowed very recently. You may be surprised to hear that my (male) partner is planning to stay at home if at one point in the future we'd medically be able to have a child. But he will be enrolling in college parttime, will continue his current side hustle and he has assets. Staying at home with a child is important to him, but it's not worth risking everything for.

swampwiz

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #965 on: August 07, 2018, 04:32:51 PM »
So, I'm sitting in an airport.  Just had to pay $25 per bag to get my luggage on the damn plane.  I'm surrounded by people that weigh at least 100 lbs more than I do and they're riding for the same rate as me.  Talk about some BS.

Doesn't volume seem like it should be a factor?  I don't care if you weigh less than me if you have too much stuff or take up too much room!
I feel the same way about that. Put everyone on a scale with their luggage and calculate a fee based on total weight.

I weigh 200 lbs, but would agree with you.  Airplane ticket fees should be based upon total passenger + baggage weight (with a stipulation regarding baggage volume so you don't get stupid people bringing 70lbs of light weight foam or something), with a weigh-in just before departure to calculate the final price.

Have folks pay by the pound?  The Fat Acceptance crowd would be militant!  As for luggage - or any type of shipping - there is weight and volume.  Air lines have a strict rule of 62" (circumference + length) per bag which approximates volume, although can be close when dealing with skis.

mm1970

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #966 on: August 07, 2018, 05:05:15 PM »
Quote
I guess it does depend on what angle you're looking from. If you consider the "old fashioned" way of being a SAHM vs. working fulltime, where most women chose to be a SAHM, parttime work is a great solution that allows women to stay in the workforce while raising a family. However, nowadays in many countries women want to stay in the workforce (either due to financial or personal reasons) which makes us parttime addicts look like we're 'behind' on these issues.
Itís often a financial decision. Here in Aus, I think only 25% of women with kids work full time, 50% part time, the rest not at all. Itís quite horrible when you have a child, and everyone suddenly expects your career to take a back seat, and schedules school meeting 2pm on a weekday... but then due to the gender pay gap, it IS financially more viable for families to have the mum take the career hit, feminist views out the wiindow...

+1 on the school meetings. We just moved back to the US and I was looking at getting involved in the PTA. All the meetings are during the work day, not during a time that would work for someone with a job. So I guess PTA isn't for parents, it's for unemployed parents. Grrr.
Depends on the school demographics.  All of our PTA meetings are at 6 pm - the vast majority of our board is made up of full time working parents.

My time on the board - well, those necessary days like running the school jogathon?  I had to take vacation.  My job is flexible enough that I could help out for 1/2 hour in the morning and head to work late (and work late, or make it up on another day).

There are other schools in our district with much wealthier families with a lot of SAHPs (mostly moms), and they COMPETE to be on the board, so everything is during the daytime.

GuitarStv

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #967 on: August 07, 2018, 05:53:06 PM »
So, I'm sitting in an airport.  Just had to pay $25 per bag to get my luggage on the damn plane.  I'm surrounded by people that weigh at least 100 lbs more than I do and they're riding for the same rate as me.  Talk about some BS.

Doesn't volume seem like it should be a factor?  I don't care if you weigh less than me if you have too much stuff or take up too much room!
I feel the same way about that. Put everyone on a scale with their luggage and calculate a fee based on total weight.

I weigh 200 lbs, but would agree with you.  Airplane ticket fees should be based upon total passenger + baggage weight (with a stipulation regarding baggage volume so you don't get stupid people bringing 70lbs of light weight foam or something), with a weigh-in just before departure to calculate the final price.

Have folks pay by the pound?  The Fat Acceptance crowd would be militant!  As for luggage - or any type of shipping - there is weight and volume.  Air lines have a strict rule of 62" (circumference + length) per bag which approximates volume, although can be close when dealing with skis.

I've got a few tricks for cutting weight for wrestling tournaments that would serve me well for airplane weigh ins.  :P

EnjoyIt

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #968 on: August 07, 2018, 07:06:06 PM »
So, I'm sitting in an airport.  Just had to pay $25 per bag to get my luggage on the damn plane.  I'm surrounded by people that weigh at least 100 lbs more than I do and they're riding for the same rate as me.  Talk about some BS.

Doesn't volume seem like it should be a factor?  I don't care if you weigh less than me if you have too much stuff or take up too much room!
I feel the same way about that. Put everyone on a scale with their luggage and calculate a fee based on total weight.

I weigh 200 lbs, but would agree with you.  Airplane ticket fees should be based upon total passenger + baggage weight (with a stipulation regarding baggage volume so you don't get stupid people bringing 70lbs of light weight foam or something), with a weigh-in just before departure to calculate the final price.

Have folks pay by the pound?  The Fat Acceptance crowd would be militant!  As for luggage - or any type of shipping - there is weight and volume.  Air lines have a strict rule of 62" (circumference + length) per bag which approximates volume, although can be close when dealing with skis.

I fully agree.  You buy tickets by dollars/pound brought on the plane.  If one weights 180 pounds and brings 70 pounds of luggage at $1.50 per pound will pay $375 for the ticket.  It costs the airline more money to fly a plane full of football players vs a plane full of swim suit models.  This is the fairest mechanism of charging people for services used. 

As for the fat acceptance crowd.  They are accepted, but they will have to pay their fair share of the costs.  Maybe even incentivize a healthier lifestyle for those who fly frequently.

Raymond Reddington

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #969 on: August 07, 2018, 07:20:36 PM »
I fully agree.  You buy tickets by dollars/pound brought on the plane.  If one weights 180 pounds and brings 70 pounds of luggage at $1.50 per pound will pay $375 for the ticket.  It costs the airline more money to fly a plane full of football players vs a plane full of swim suit models.  This is the fairest mechanism of charging people for services used. 

As for the fat acceptance crowd.  They are accepted, but they will have to pay their fair share of the costs.  Maybe even incentivize a healthier lifestyle for those who fly frequently.

Now if only they could do something similar with health insurance. Smokers rates vs. nonsmoker rates, and obese rates vs. non-obese...

EnjoyIt

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #970 on: August 07, 2018, 07:33:55 PM »
I fully agree.  You buy tickets by dollars/pound brought on the plane.  If one weights 180 pounds and brings 70 pounds of luggage at $1.50 per pound will pay $375 for the ticket.  It costs the airline more money to fly a plane full of football players vs a plane full of swim suit models.  This is the fairest mechanism of charging people for services used. 

As for the fat acceptance crowd.  They are accepted, but they will have to pay their fair share of the costs.  Maybe even incentivize a healthier lifestyle for those who fly frequently.

Now if only they could do something similar with health insurance. Smokers rates vs. nonsmoker rates, and obese rates vs. non-obese...

I'm in for that.  I know prior to the ACA maybe 8-10 years ago, one of my relatives had to, or chose to quite smoking prior to getting a blood test because if he was negative the cost of insurance would be lower.  I also remember hearing something about having a gym membership and lowering the cost of health insurance.

I agree that people should be responsible for their own life choices and not burden society with those poor decisions.  Especially if one is educated about those decisions and continues to repeat them. I'm even all for providing help and education.  But after that they are free to do as they choose and those choices have consequences.

GreenEggs

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #971 on: August 07, 2018, 08:11:44 PM »
I don't get people who are obsessed with "optimization".  I'm a firm practicer of the 80/20 rule and believer in the concept that "perfect is the enemy of good enough"


Ditto.


"Good enough" and a coat of paint is close enough to "perfect" for me.  ;)

Dee

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #972 on: August 07, 2018, 08:16:54 PM »
I was in a washroom where there was both paper towels and a hand dryer available. Someone chose to use the hand dryer. I truly do not get it.

I also do not get how loud those contraptions are allowed to be.

Hula Hoop

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #973 on: August 08, 2018, 04:42:17 AM »
I think the most important goal for all women is to stay economically independent. For some reason our mentality is very liberal and still most couples in the end lead a fairly traditional life, out of choice (or habit?).

I don't understand how this could work... if both men and women had the #1 goal in their life of being economically independent, then you'd have to be FIRE before having kids, if you wanted either parent to stay home with them. If you're going to hire someone for childcare, I guess both could remain economically independent while still having kids.

If either parent is going to give up money-earning hours of their day to be with the kids, that would make them less economically independent. So if a woman's 'most important' goal is to stay economically independent, she'd need to have kids with a man who is willing to be economically dependent on her while he stays home with the kids (Unless one is already FIREd). Isn't part of the family unit concept an interdependence on each other so each can accomplish different things? I do understand that the interdependence leaves one or both vulnerable after a break-up, but that's a risk we take. The alternative is to remain fiercely independent of all others, but you lose some benefits too.
I agree with Imma - obviously,  IF you want one parent to stay home with the kid(s) full time and give up all paid work then economic independence for that parent would be difficult.  However, most parents I know have not chosen this path - and work either full or part time  after having children in order to stay economically independent (and people may have other reasons as well like enjoying their jobs or needing both incomes).  Nowadays, lots of child care options exist besides the SAHP model making this option available to most people. 

I also know several stay at home mothers who are economically independent because they come from wealthy families so obviously, they are not at risk if something were to happen to their marriage.  More power to them - I would probably do the same.  As things are now - my husband and I absolutely see ourselves as an economic unit and we pool our resources.  I bring home more bacon than him but he still brings home enough bacon that he could survive if something happenned to me or our marriage.  But him quitting work is not an option because putting all your eggs in one basket is never a good idea.

DreamFIRE

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #974 on: August 08, 2018, 04:49:06 AM »
I fully agree.  You buy tickets by dollars/pound brought on the plane.  If one weights 180 pounds and brings 70 pounds of luggage at $1.50 per pound will pay $375 for the ticket.  It costs the airline more money to fly a plane full of football players vs a plane full of swim suit models.  This is the fairest mechanism of charging people for services used. 

As for the fat acceptance crowd.  They are accepted, but they will have to pay their fair share of the costs.  Maybe even incentivize a healthier lifestyle for those who fly frequently.

Now if only they could do something similar with health insurance. Smokers rates vs. nonsmoker rates, and obese rates vs. non-obese...

That's a slippery slope.  I don't even think older people should be discriminated against.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #975 on: August 08, 2018, 05:36:40 AM »
I was in a washroom where there was both paper towels and a hand dryer available. Someone chose to use the hand dryer. I truly do not get it.

I also do not get how loud those contraptions are allowed to be.

I'm curious...what bothers you about this choice? Is it the volume/loudness? Or something else?

mak1277

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #976 on: August 08, 2018, 06:51:09 AM »
I was in a washroom where there was both paper towels and a hand dryer available. Someone chose to use the hand dryer. I truly do not get it.

I also do not get how loud those contraptions are allowed to be.

I'm curious...what bothers you about this choice? Is it the volume/loudness? Or something else?

I'm not Dee, but I think the main reason is the ineffectiveness of most hand dryers compared to towels.  If you have both options available, why would you not choose the more effective method (towels)?

I'm a red panda

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #977 on: August 08, 2018, 06:55:30 AM »
I was in a washroom where there was both paper towels and a hand dryer available. Someone chose to use the hand dryer. I truly do not get it.

I also do not get how loud those contraptions are allowed to be.

I'm curious...what bothers you about this choice? Is it the volume/loudness? Or something else?

I'm not Dee, but I think the main reason is the ineffectiveness of most hand dryers compared to towels.  If you have both options available, why would you not choose the more effective method (towels)?

Paper towels are wasteful.  Most people use way more than they need to get their hands dry.

Cadman

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #978 on: August 08, 2018, 07:14:48 AM »
I was in a washroom where there was both paper towels and a hand dryer available. Someone chose to use the hand dryer. I truly do not get it.

I also do not get how loud those contraptions are allowed to be.

Have you been in a men's bathroom before? 

Sometimes, the paper towel dispenser is wet and disgusting --  and I don't exactly feel like cranking on it with my newly clean hands, in order to get a paper towel. In a case like that, I'd much rather use a hand dryer, which often requires no contact with the machine, or at worst, I can bump the start button with my elbow. 


Sure, but then you'd have to sully your newly clean hands on that door handle. And the number of unwashed hands that have touched that thing is enough to drive me back to option #1.

Bird In Hand

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #979 on: August 08, 2018, 07:20:45 AM »
I was in a washroom where there was both paper towels and a hand dryer available. Someone chose to use the hand dryer. I truly do not get it.

I also do not get how loud those contraptions are allowed to be.

I'm curious...what bothers you about this choice? Is it the volume/loudness? Or something else?

I'm not Dee, but I think the main reason is the ineffectiveness of most hand dryers compared to towels.  If you have both options available, why would you not choose the more effective method (towels)?

Paper towels are wasteful.  Most people use way more than they need to get their hands dry.

Apparently electric hand dryers blow fecal bacteria on your hands and paper towels are more hygienic than electric dryers.

Bird In Hand

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #980 on: August 08, 2018, 07:25:07 AM »
Have you been in a men's bathroom before? 

Sometimes, the paper towel dispenser is wet and disgusting --  and I don't exactly feel like cranking on it with my newly clean hands, in order to get a paper towel. In a case like that, I'd much rather use a hand dryer, which often requires no contact with the machine, or at worst, I can bump the start button with my elbow. 


Sure, but then you'd have to sully your newly clean hands on that door handle. And the number of unwashed hands that have touched that thing is enough to drive me back to option #1.

Lol, you're doing it wrong.  Whenever there are paper towels available, I grab a fresh one before exiting and use it to open the door.  If there are no paper towels available, I've been known to use a bit of (clean) toilet paper, or loiter as inconspicuously as possible and wait for someone else to open the door, or use my elbow to pull the door open slightly and then my foot to pull the door open the rest of the way.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #981 on: August 08, 2018, 07:55:46 AM »
You guys are all doing it wrong. A whole sheet of paper just to dry your hands? Ridiculous. And the blow dryers do spread bacteria.

That's why we should be spin drying, as in spin in circles with your hands out until they're dry. Try not to get dizzy.

Seriously though, I just use my hands to wipe each other off and give them a shake. They'll finish drying in another minute or so, maybe wipe them on my shirt if I need to hurry it up. Opening the door, I haven't entirely figured that one out yet. It just depends on what type of door we're talking about.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #982 on: August 08, 2018, 08:06:43 AM »
I was in a washroom where there was both paper towels and a hand dryer available. Someone chose to use the hand dryer. I truly do not get it.

I also do not get how loud those contraptions are allowed to be.

Have you been in a men's bathroom before? 

Sometimes, the paper towel dispenser is wet and disgusting --  and I don't exactly feel like cranking on it with my newly clean hands, in order to get a paper towel. In a case like that, I'd much rather use a hand dryer, which often requires no contact with the machine, or at worst, I can bump the start button with my elbow. 


Sure, but then you'd have to sully your newly clean hands on that door handle. And the number of unwashed hands that have touched that thing is enough to drive me back to option #1.

After you wipe your hands off on the paper towel, keep the paper towel in your hands.  Open the door by touching the paper towel to the knob/lever.  Hold the door open with your foot and throw your paper towel into the trash can that is always near the door.

You're welcome.   :P

Cadman

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #983 on: August 08, 2018, 08:32:54 AM »
I was in a washroom where there was both paper towels and a hand dryer available. Someone chose to use the hand dryer. I truly do not get it.

I also do not get how loud those contraptions are allowed to be.

Have you been in a men's bathroom before? 

Sometimes, the paper towel dispenser is wet and disgusting --  and I don't exactly feel like cranking on it with my newly clean hands, in order to get a paper towel. In a case like that, I'd much rather use a hand dryer, which often requires no contact with the machine, or at worst, I can bump the start button with my elbow. 


Sure, but then you'd have to sully your newly clean hands on that door handle. And the number of unwashed hands that have touched that thing is enough to drive me back to option #1.

After you wipe your hands off on the paper towel, keep the paper towel in your hands.  Open the door by touching the paper towel to the knob/lever.  Hold the door open with your foot and throw your paper towel into the trash can that is always near the door.

You're welcome.   :P

Yep, that's the only way to do it. Though lately megacorp has installed automated handicap door openers on all the restrooms with switches at just the right height to smack with your elbow. The downside is they have no clutch, so the drag on trying to muscle your way in manually is substantial. Or you can hit the button and wait 15 seconds for it to open while getting the side-eye.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #984 on: August 08, 2018, 08:33:54 AM »
It all depends on the hand dryer! I'm finding that the turnpike rest stops have all upgraded to very efficient air dryers, often Dyson, and they work well and quickly and cut down on all the paper on the floor. Plus, there are no doors to open, so it's safe!

mak1277

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #985 on: August 08, 2018, 08:57:48 AM »
It all depends on the hand dryer! I'm finding that the turnpike rest stops have all upgraded to very efficient air dryers, often Dyson, and they work well and quickly and cut down on all the paper on the floor. Plus, there are no doors to open, so it's safe!

I agree that the Dyson ones work perfectly.  I'd use them over towels any day of the week.  I'm not squeamish about touching the door handle...current society's fear of germs is borderline hysterical IMO...I'm just looking for the most effective way to get my hands dry.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #986 on: August 08, 2018, 09:38:38 AM »
I was in a washroom where there was both paper towels and a hand dryer available. Someone chose to use the hand dryer. I truly do not get it.

I also do not get how loud those contraptions are allowed to be.

Have you been in a men's bathroom before? 

Sometimes, the paper towel dispenser is wet and disgusting --  and I don't exactly feel like cranking on it with my newly clean hands, in order to get a paper towel. In a case like that, I'd much rather use a hand dryer, which often requires no contact with the machine, or at worst, I can bump the start button with my elbow. 


Sure, but then you'd have to sully your newly clean hands on that door handle. And the number of unwashed hands that have touched that thing is enough to drive me back to option #1.

After you wipe your hands off on the paper towel, keep the paper towel in your hands.  Open the door by touching the paper towel to the knob/lever.  Hold the door open with your foot and throw your paper towel into the trash can that is always near the door.

You're welcome.   :P

Yep, that's the only way to do it. Though lately megacorp has installed automated handicap door openers on all the restrooms with switches at just the right height to smack with your elbow. The downside is they have no clutch, so the drag on trying to muscle your way in manually is substantial. Or you can hit the button and wait 15 seconds for it to open while getting the side-eye.

I've noticed a lot of bathrooms with a toe grip that allows you to use your shoe to open the door.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #987 on: August 08, 2018, 08:06:11 PM »
A little more explanation about why I don't get picking a hand-dryer over a paper towel in a public washroom where there are other people around to see what you pick:
Either you need your hands to actually be fully dry by the time you are done (like I do because I have sensitive skin around my wrists that gets irritated if I don't dry thoroughly), in which case you would pick the hand towel unless you are willing to spend an extra 2.5 minutes in a public bathroom (length of time it takes me to get hands fully dry with a typical hand dryer) or you don't really need your hands to be all that dry, in which case, why not just give them a shake and get thee out of the public washroom immediately? The implicit assumption I am making is that we all want to get out of the public washroom ASAP. If that isn't so, then I don't get it.

The alternative that has been presented in some recent posts are the new-fangled Dyson hand dryers which are much quicker and more effective. In my experience, the few I have encountered that actually work rather quickly are nonetheless not that quick and are also just way too loud.  But if someone were to pick that over paper towels, I guess I get it, in the sense that other people may not have as much of an aversion to such loud noises as I do. But short of that, I don't get it.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #988 on: August 08, 2018, 08:21:12 PM »

Loud noises aren't my biggest concern when in a public restroom.  The ones I use the most are at work, and they have paper towels with an optical sensor, so you don't have to touch anything.  I don't even think about touching the door handle.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #989 on: August 09, 2018, 10:24:16 AM »
I don't get why everyone is so concerned with avoiding touching door handles in public loos. I've never worried about it at all, and I never caught anything bad from doing that. As long as it looks visually clean, I'm fine.

Actually, oversterilising everything in general is probably likely to make your immune system worse, since it never gets practice dealing with easy small bugs, so when something more serious comes around it won't know what to do.

It's almost as if we evolved in a world where literally everything is covered in bacteria the whole time... ;)

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #990 on: August 09, 2018, 10:44:57 AM »
I don't get why everyone is so concerned with avoiding touching door handles in public loos. I've never worried about it at all, and I never caught anything bad from doing that. As long as it looks visually clean, I'm fine.

I went through a few years where (for whatever reason - stress, vitamin deficiency, something) my immune system was complete shit and I was getting bugs literally monthly. And many of them were pretty bad, lingering for weeks, occasionally turning to bronchitis, landing me in urgent care, etc. I was sick all the fucking time, and you bet your butt I turned into a germophobe trying to avoid touching door handles and elevator buttons and stuff where everyone's fingers have touched. It's just common sense since hands tend to be a vector for viruses. My immune system is better now, but I have a hard time shaking that habit...

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #991 on: August 09, 2018, 10:52:46 AM »
I don't get why everyone is so concerned with avoiding touching door handles in public loos. I've never worried about it at all, and I never caught anything bad from doing that. As long as it looks visually clean, I'm fine.

Actually, oversterilising everything in general is probably likely to make your immune system worse, since it never gets practice dealing with easy small bugs, so when something more serious comes around it won't know what to do.

It's almost as if we evolved in a world where literally everything is covered in bacteria the whole time... ;)
I agree with this. I touch all kinds of stuff that could be considered gross: escalator handles, subway and bus poles, bathroom door handles, airplane tray tables, other people's hands. I consider all of it exercise for my immune system. I wash my hands often, but not with antibacterial soap, and I try to avoid touching my face with dirty hands, but otherwise, I don't worry much about germs. I'm fairly healthy and don't have allergies, so I think my approach is working (or I am blessed with healthy genes).

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #992 on: August 09, 2018, 10:54:54 AM »
I don't get why everyone is so concerned with avoiding touching door handles in public loos. I've never worried about it at all, and I never caught anything bad from doing that. As long as it looks visually clean, I'm fine.

Actually, oversterilising everything in general is probably likely to make your immune system worse, since it never gets practice dealing with easy small bugs, so when something more serious comes around it won't know what to do.

It's almost as if we evolved in a world where literally everything is covered in bacteria the whole time... ;)
I agree with this. I touch all kinds of stuff that could be considered gross: escalator handles, subway and bus poles, bathroom door handles, airplane tray tables, other people's hands. I consider all of it exercise for my immune system. I wash my hands often, but not with antibacterial soap, and I try to avoid touching my face with dirty hands, but otherwise, I don't worry much about germs. I'm fairly healthy and don't have allergies, so I think my approach is working (or I am blessed with healthy genes).

I used to feel the same way, until I spent a year and a half sick after my child started kindergarten.  Now I'm a little more careful about touching stuff.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #993 on: August 09, 2018, 11:27:24 AM »
I don't get it when people use a public restroom and don't wash their hands after using the urinal or toilet. Restrooms at work or public have sinks with water, soap and ways to dry your hands. Most of us were trained as children to wash our hands after going to the potty. This is how we prevent disease! You can't 'see' this stuff on door knobs or door push plates or anywhere.


mak1277

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #994 on: August 09, 2018, 11:45:53 AM »
I don't get it when people use a public restroom and don't wash their hands after using the urinal or toilet. Restrooms at work or public have sinks with water, soap and ways to dry your hands. Most of us were trained as children to wash our hands after going to the potty. This is how we prevent disease! You can't 'see' this stuff on door knobs or door push plates or anywhere.

Unless you urinate on your hands, what's the reason for washing them?  Really you should wash first...your hands are probably much dirtier than whatever else you're touching when you go in there to pee.

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #995 on: August 09, 2018, 11:54:06 AM »
I don't get why everyone is so concerned with avoiding touching door handles in public loos. I've never worried about it at all, and I never caught anything bad from doing that. As long as it looks visually clean, I'm fine.

Besides restroom door handles being hotspots for baceteria, there's also a little bit of shit on them, usually not visible.  So if you would like to have that on your hands just before lunch, or any other time, have at it

GuitarStv

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #996 on: August 09, 2018, 11:55:30 AM »
I don't get it when people use a public restroom and don't wash their hands after using the urinal or toilet. Restrooms at work or public have sinks with water, soap and ways to dry your hands. Most of us were trained as children to wash our hands after going to the potty. This is how we prevent disease! You can't 'see' this stuff on door knobs or door push plates or anywhere.

Unless you urinate on your hands, what's the reason for washing them?  Really you should wash first...your hands are probably much dirtier than whatever else you're touching when you go in there to pee.

My dick goes straight from the shower in the morning to my underwear.  It must therefore be the cleanest part of my body since it hasn't touched anything dirty.  :P

mak1277

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #997 on: August 09, 2018, 12:04:11 PM »
I don't get it when people use a public restroom and don't wash their hands after using the urinal or toilet. Restrooms at work or public have sinks with water, soap and ways to dry your hands. Most of us were trained as children to wash our hands after going to the potty. This is how we prevent disease! You can't 'see' this stuff on door knobs or door push plates or anywhere.

Unless you urinate on your hands, what's the reason for washing them?  Really you should wash first...your hands are probably much dirtier than whatever else you're touching when you go in there to pee.

My dick goes straight from the shower in the morning to my underwear.  It must therefore be the cleanest part of my body since it hasn't touched anything dirty.  :P

precisely my point.

Trifele

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #998 on: August 09, 2018, 12:07:34 PM »
I don't get it when people use a public restroom and don't wash their hands after using the urinal or toilet. Restrooms at work or public have sinks with water, soap and ways to dry your hands. Most of us were trained as children to wash our hands after going to the potty. This is how we prevent disease! You can't 'see' this stuff on door knobs or door push plates or anywhere.

Unless you urinate on your hands, what's the reason for washing them?  Really you should wash first...your hands are probably much dirtier than whatever else you're touching when you go in there to pee.

My dick goes straight from the shower in the morning to my underwear.  It must therefore be the cleanest part of my body since it hasn't touched anything dirty.  :P

I think you're right that most dicks are probably pretty clean.  Also urine is not dirty, especially compared to feces. Very low levels of bacteria in most people's urine.  I think the way you acquire bacteria in bathrooms when you go in there to pee is by touching door handles, faucets, etc. 

Personally I am not grossed out by a man using a urinal and then not washing his hands. Bonus points if he used his elbow to flush.  (I am however extremely grossed out by people who don't wash their hands after shitting.) 

Trifele

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Re: The 'I Don't Get It' thread. Rants accepted.
« Reply #999 on: August 09, 2018, 12:09:34 PM »
@GuitarStv -- I have to ask as I have wondered many times:  What is that picture in your avatar? Thanks.