Telling your boss you don't see yourself moving up to management

[SyZ]

Which basically means you'll be stuck in entry-level / senior entry-level

Not really sure how to go about this

And before you ask, I don't see myself being able to go through the personal growth necessary to be able to manage and delegate to a team, even if it's 2 people

No, I won't lose my job as a result of said conversation

[J Boogie]

In most large companies, advancement has two tracks - leadership and technical excellence (or something like that)

If you're not interested in gaining more skills either, then it could be an awkward conversation.  But management usually isn't the only way to grow.

[Chris22]

Are you being offered a management job?  If not, why bring it up?

[I'm a red panda]

I agree with not bringing it up.  But if moving into management comes up in your performance reviews, I think I would just say that isn't a area you are interested in, and instead mention something else you would rather develop and contribute through.  (In my team we have people managers and content managers.  We have very valuable members of our team who will never move up because they don't have the skills to manage people. But their expertise is honored by their content management. It does mean they've hit a wall as far as promotions go, but they got pretty high before that happened.)

[brute]

What kind of industry do you work in? The idea of Sr. entry level is foreign to me.

I'm a Sr applications guy. I'm one raise away from being paid as much as possible in this position. I have two options. Management or Principle engineer. Principle pays the same as management track, moves me up a band and I get to keep doing what I'm legendary at. Thinking I may wander into management though. Always a good thing to broaden my skill set.

[Sibley]

I'm not interested in management positions in my current department, because I don't want to put up with the politics they have to. I'm not the only person in my department like that either. One person has been in the same role for 10+ years, quite happily. Not an issue here!

[Uturn]

It really depends on how your boss views things.  Some will look down on you for not wanting to move up, others will be happy to have a highly skilled person on their staff.  I've noticed that the more technical your boss is/was, the more they understand not wanting management.  Either way, make sure your boss knows that you are still an asset who is solving whatever business problems that he has deal with. 

[markbike528CBX]

I mentioned at my interview (16 years ago) that I was OK with leading small, temporary, project teams. 
I also said "I never want to be responsible for someone else's time-sheet ever again".
Sure I can be delegated when a boss is on vacation, but I don't want to have people reporting to me.
Was a supervisor, found out it wasn't for me.

Now Principal  (not Principle, because I'm not principled, but I can be your princiPAL).

[Schaefer Light]

I hate it when questions like this come up in performance reviews and 1-on-1 meetings.

Boss - "Where do you see yourself in x years?"

Me - "Hopefully, retired"

[Dicey]

I was a pretty good salesperson, and a less-good manager. I figured this out and spent the rest of my career on the sales side. It was the least heinous of all available options.

[Spork]

In most large companies, advancement has two tracks - leadership and technical excellence (or something like that)

If you're not interested in gaining more skills either, then it could be an awkward conversation.  But management usually isn't the only way to grow.

This is what I was always used to as well.  There often is a technical track.  It may not offer the same bonus structures management offers, but ... for me it was always a better fit.

My bosses always knew this was the track I was on.  It was spoken openly.  I am a bit Sheldon Cooper-esqe.  There's no good reason to put me in a management position.  I knew that.  Management knew that. 

[MrsPete]

Are you being offered a management job?  If not, why bring it up?

Agree.  You know the saying, Don't bleed 'til you get shot?  It fits here:  Don't get too upset about something that hasn't happened yet. 

If your boss does bring it up, say something tactful like this:  "I'm flattered that you value me /my work enough to anticipate me moving up in the company; however, I have to admit that I'm just not ambitious in that way.  I'm satisfied with my work-life balance at this stage of my life, and I'd really like to continue in my current job -- or move up to ____ job.  Of course, I'd also like to keep the door open to change my mind in the future!" 

I hate it when questions like this come up in performance reviews and 1-on-1 meetings.

Boss - "Where do you see yourself in x years?"

Me - "Hopefully, retired"

I wouldn't 'fess up to that.  The positives of admitting that to your boss are negligible, while the potential problems are very real:  You may be placing yourself on the chopping block if layoffs should roll around (whereas you want to remain in firm control of your start/stop dates).  Your boss may pass you by for promotions, or may not take you seriously -- either because he thinks you're going to leave soon or because he thinks you're unrealistic. 

No, if asked this question -- assuming that you're the OP and don't want to get into management -- I'd be polite and play the game nicely:  "I've thought a good bit about that, and I'm really quite happy with the job I'm in now.  I know it may not be typical, but I'd be perfectly happy to still be in my current job in X number of years.  It suits me well, and I'm not looking for the competition and politics that come with the next level up." 

[steveo]

Which basically means you'll be stuck in entry-level / senior entry-level

Not really sure how to go about this

And before you ask, I don't see myself being able to go through the personal growth necessary to be able to manage and delegate to a team, even if it's 2 people

No, I won't lose my job as a result of said conversation

I manage a small team (3 people at the moment). I've managed a largish team (20 odd people). I don't really manage them. I just try and manage the work and let them do whatever the fuck they want to do.

It's not that hard.

In stating that I don't want a promotion. When I managed the largish team the team was a mess. I could do that in the right situation but I don't really want to have more responsibility. I'm less than 5 years to FIRE and the only thing that will stuff me up is getting sacked which could happen because I'm taking less shit at work.

[steveo]

I hate it when questions like this come up in performance reviews and 1-on-1 meetings.

Boss - "Where do you see yourself in x years?"

Me - "Hopefully, retired"

This is gold. I've got this coming up soon and I feel like stating that.

[Spork]

I hate it when questions like this come up in performance reviews and 1-on-1 meetings.

Boss - "Where do you see yourself in x years?"

Me - "Hopefully, retired"

This is gold. I've got this coming up soon and I feel like stating that.

I had that discussion in a review.  Except it was "what are your goals for next year."  It went okay.

[aschmidt2930]

In most large companies, advancement has two tracks - leadership and technical excellence (or something like that)

If you're not interested in gaining more skills either, then it could be an awkward conversation.  But management usually isn't the only way to grow.

Agreed, you can have a great career and make a lot of money without managing anyone.  The potential here is somewhat role dependent though.

[COEE]

I have been unapologetic in letting my bosses know that I have no desire to manage people.  I let them know that I will (continue) to work my ass off for them and make good product, but the moment they put me into a role managing people, I'm leaving.  It may have started to back fire at some point... as I always got the "but you don't have a MS" criticism.  I always responded that I'd put up my design and hard work over any MS degree person in my department.  I never felt that my performance reviews ever suffered though.  Probably because they knew I was right and that I'd leave if they didn't keep me happy.  I left anyway.

[vern]

You can be management, or you can be happy.

Pick one.

[Schaefer Light]

You can be management, or you can be happy.

Pick one.

Funny.  And accurate, in my experience.

[Chris22]

You can be management, or you can be happy.

Pick one.

I'm both.  And strange, I guess.

[meerkat]

You can be management, or you can be happy.

Pick one.

Funny.  And accurate, in my experience.

From watching those around me, it's "You can be management and work a ridiculous number of hours in a week and tell yourself you're happy when really you're just distracting yourself with work, work, and more work ... or you can actually be happy". And my boss has no idea why I don't want to follow in her footsteps. Unfortunately at my company there's a very good chance that if I don't seek out some sort of management position there's nothing I can do beyond my current position so that means I get to go through the fun of job hunting again, but thankfully my boss is still willing to advocate for me and encouraged me to seek out additional training and classes and such.

[Schaefer Light]

You can be management, or you can be happy.

Pick one.

Funny.  And accurate, in my experience.

From watching those around me, it's "You can be management and work a ridiculous number of hours in a week and tell yourself you're happy when really you're just distracting yourself with work, work, and more work ... or you can actually be happy". And my boss has no idea why I don't want to follow in her footsteps. Unfortunately at my company there's a very good chance that if I don't seek out some sort of management position there's nothing I can do beyond my current position so that means I get to go through the fun of job hunting again, but thankfully my boss is still willing to advocate for me and encouraged me to seek out additional training and classes and such.

I understand where you're coming from.  In a lot of small and mid-sized companies, there really isn't much room for advancement if you're not willing to go into management. 

In my current management job, it's not the workload that's frustrating - it's the work itself.  It's just not for me.  There was a poster above who mentioned never wanting to see anyone's time sheet again.  That's pretty much the way I feel (though there are certainly aspects of the job that are more stressful than time sheets).

And there's really no room for me to advance, either.  But why would I want to advance?  That just means I'd be managing even more people, which would make the job that much worse.  Which is why I have a tough time answering questions about where I see myself in x years.  I guess I could just say I want a better job than the one I have now.

[Chris22]

Which is why I have a tough time answering questions about where I see myself in x years.  I guess I could just say I want a better job than the one I have now.

"I would like to continue to advance, but I'm not sure I know what the next opportunity is.  My goal is to position myself so I can capitalize on it when it appears." 

[meerkat]

In my current management job, it's not the workload that's frustrating - it's the work itself.  It's just not for me.  There was a poster above who mentioned never wanting to see anyone's time sheet again.  That's pretty much the way I feel (though there are certainly aspects of the job that are more stressful than time sheets).

Definitely. For my boss I think it's all the people managing (timesheets, annual reviews, having to have a sit down with employees individually because they're behaving inappropriately at work, having to have a meeting with everyone to remind us to all act like adults because someone complained about the bathrooms being gross) that gets in the way of the more interesting parts of her job, so she ends up taking her laptop home to work on it after hours when no one will bother her.

"I would like to continue to advance, but I'm not sure I know what the next opportunity is.  My goal is to position myself so I can capitalize on it when it appears." 

I like this.

[TheOldestYoungMan]

I have always been honest with my boss, giving them the opportunity to respect my own opinion of self.  I desire no management responsibilities for a company I don't own.  Having to fire someone because senior management screwed the pooch would kill my soul.  So I avoid being put in that situation.

"I don't want it."

Maybe you can have that conversation better than I could, but no boss has actually respected it.  It gets recorded as "employee lacks ambition" or something stupid like that.  As though the path they went down (and your boss absolutely did go down that path) is the only path.  YMMV, but everywhere I've worked you are either moving up or moving out.  As soon as they knew I wasn't interested in advancing into management, the job turned to shit and it was time to find a new job.  As soon as I turned down the offer of promotion, the job turned to shit and it was time to find a new job.

So live a lie or find a new job.  Or hit the jackpot and have a boss who values employees for the job they currently do, not for what they hope they might someday do.

It's all this:

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/

More and more, each day.  Everything is bullshit until you can leave the working class and move into the capital class.  Every person you interact with on a daily basis who does not understand this is, with or without their knowledge, actively undermining your progress.

[pbkmaine]

I would wait until it comes up and put it this way: "My interest is in becoming a Subject Matter Expert, not in managing people."

[SyZ]

I basically told her I don't see myself ever being able to manage people and that's where this role would eventually lead, or I would continue to remain at this current position not actually making any decisions that matter or impact the company. She lied and said 'stop beating yourself up, your work does matter and we need you' so I mentioned maybe making a lateral shift right now to a new department that better suits my skillset and has opportunities to grow while not hitting a manager level and she said 'we already figured you'd end up there' so I said 'oh' and we moved on

[Slee_stack]

If Management = Supervising, no thanks.

If it means scaling your influence/work and/or developing people, it ain't bad at all.

[Schaefer Light]

Which is why I have a tough time answering questions about where I see myself in x years.  I guess I could just say I want a better job than the one I have now.

"I would like to continue to advance, but I'm not sure I know what the next opportunity is.  My goal is to position myself so I can capitalize on it when it appears."

Good answer.  I like this.

[libertarian4321]

I hate it when questions like this come up in performance reviews and 1-on-1 meetings.

Boss - "Where do you see yourself in x years?"

Me - "Hopefully, retired"

I used to HATE this question every year when I worked for a large consulting firm. 

But I used to "play the game" and come up with some corporate sounding bull crap using appropriate buzz words to make it sound like I looked forward to dedicating my life to the company until I dropped dead at my desk.

Then one year I just got sick of it and said "honestly, Bob, I'm planning on early retirement in far less than 5-years, so I have no "5-year plan" (well, I did, but it wasn't the kind of "plan" the corporate geeks would have considered acceptable). 

He looked at me like I had an attitude problem (he wasn't wrong about that).  He couldn't accept the answer, saying something like "see, that's part of the problem- you don't take the job seriously (he was right about that, too), you don't put in the hours (the guy was on a roll- I guess he noticed I was rolling in at 9:30 when the rest of the lemmings were there by 8?), you make a joke about everything (how else was I going to maintain my sanity?)."

Needless to say, the performance evaluation didn't go well.  As I recall I got the John Blutarsky raise (zero point zero).

But I wasn't joking.  I left within the year and early retired.

That's the bad thing about being financially independent, it can lead to not giving a damn about your career.  :)

[SyZ]

Awesome story ... but, unfortunately, I'm 10-15 years away from being able to do that, and my manager is a genuinely good person so I don't really have all those 'fu management, I'm out of here' type fantasies everyone else seems to develop ... I just don't want to work a job I hate that does nothing for me

[steveo]

I hate it when questions like this come up in performance reviews and 1-on-1 meetings.

Boss - "Where do you see yourself in x years?"

Me - "Hopefully, retired"

I used to HATE this question every year when I worked for a large consulting firm. 

But I used to "play the game" and come up with some corporate sounding bull crap using appropriate buzz words to make it sound like I looked forward to dedicating my life to the company until I dropped dead at my desk.

Then one year I just got sick of it and said "honestly, Bob, I'm planning on early retirement in far less than 5-years, so I have no "5-year plan" (well, I did, but it wasn't the kind of "plan" the corporate geeks would have considered acceptable). 

He looked at me like I had an attitude problem (he wasn't wrong about that).  He couldn't accept the answer, saying something like "see, that's part of the problem- you don't take the job seriously (he was right about that, too), you don't put in the hours (the guy was on a roll- I guess he noticed I was rolling in at 9:30 when the rest of the lemmings were there by 8?), you make a joke about everything (how else was I going to maintain my sanity?)."

Needless to say, the performance evaluation didn't go well.  As I recall I got the John Blutarsky raise (zero point zero).

But I wasn't joking.  I left within the year and early retired.

That's the bad thing about being financially independent, it can lead to not giving a damn about your career.  :)

I am in a similar situation. I've got about 4 years to retirement and my boss and I had a performance discussion the other day. He was talking about managing bigger projects but I had to do x, y & z. I basically said I don't really care about that and that I just want to do a good job every day.

[KarefulKactus15]

I have always been honest with my boss, giving them the opportunity to respect my own opinion of self.  I desire no management responsibilities for a company I don't own.  Having to fire someone because senior management screwed the pooch would kill my soul.  So I avoid being put in that situation.

"I don't want it."

Maybe you can have that conversation better than I could, but no boss has actually respected it.  It gets recorded as "employee lacks ambition" or something stupid like that.  As though the path they went down (and your boss absolutely did go down that path) is the only path.  YMMV, but everywhere I've worked you are either moving up or moving out.  As soon as they knew I wasn't interested in advancing into management, the job turned to shit and it was time to find a new job.  As soon as I turned down the offer of promotion, the job turned to shit and it was time to find a new job.

So live a lie or find a new job.  Or hit the jackpot and have a boss who values employees for the job they currently do, not for what they hope they might someday do.

It's all this:

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/

More and more, each day.  Everything is bullshit until you can leave the working class and move into the capital class.  Every person you interact with on a daily basis who does not understand this is, with or without their knowledge, actively undermining your progress.

Kinda long, But I enjoyed the read! Thanks for posting

[markbike528CBX]

.."......As soon as they knew I wasn't interested in advancing into management, the job turned to shit and it was time to find a new job. 
,,,,,

However, in geek-heavy environments, the system is set to have  a  "Technical Leader". track. God help us if geeks(like me me and you) become "managers". Everybody wins.

[RyanAtTanagra]

I've had this conversation twice at my current company.  I'm pretty much at the top of the pay scale for my field, so it's assumed/expected that I would want to get into management in order to make more money, but I just don't.  To me management entails all the worst parts of any job.  I'm a tech person.

So I had to explain this to my previous boss when he asked me if I was interested in moving into a management role.  After I told him why I wasn't interested he said 'yea, I wish I'd seen in that way, I'm not sure it's worth the extra money'.

Then when he left the company, I had to explain it again to his boss (the CFO) when he wanted me to move up into his position.  He understood it less, but 'I'm a technical person, I'm good at being a technical person, I would be less effective as a manager' is fairly easy to digest.  Also 'I would kill myself if I had to attend as many meetings as that position requires', which I have to qualms about saying.  I make it well known that I hate meetings anyway, so I don't get invited to them unless there's a good reason for me to be there.

But yea most people don't understand the desire to not to continue to move up/make more money.  I've had people look at me like I had two heads when I've told them I wasn't interested in management, and that yes I understood I wasn't going to be making any more money, and yes I'm ok with that.

I've noticed that the more technical your boss is/was, the more they understand not wanting management.

This has been my experience as well.

[Bateaux]

Pretty much told my company to take my high stress job and shove it last year.  Now I'm working alone in my private area with no one to direct but myself.  Slightly less pay, double the peace of mind.  The power of FU-MONEY is incredible.

[prognastat]

In my case I was in a situation where there were two tracks one that was management and one that was progressively more senior technical positions. My manager offered to get me started on track towards management, I ended up telling him though i appreciated the offer I felt I would be a better fit towards the technical track and that I also felt other people would be a better fit for management than I would be. Management would likely have been the easier move since more positions tend to open there in my company than the technical promotions. I ended up having to work for 3 more years before getting a promotion towards what i wanted, but then managed to get promoted on the technical track twice in under a year, so that made up for it some.

I would see if something similar is available in your company, something that would be more senior in something you enjoy doing that isn't management. If that is available say that is where your interests lie and you really want to work towards that. If that isn't an option and management is the only way up it can be tough depending on your manager and the company. Some are ok with you saying you are happy where you are at the moment, some though see it as not being motivated and it will have a negative effect on your raises, work and possibly lead to unemployment. One other option depending on what kind of position you are maybe if there is no more senior technical position you can say you are interested in developing and expanding your skills and try to get the company to create a more senior technical position that you feel would be beneficial to the company.

These kinds of questions are tough though since a lot of it depends what kind of management/company you are at and also what your position there is both socially and employment-wise.

[JoeBlow]

Which basically means you'll be stuck in entry-level / senior entry-level

Not really sure how to go about this

And before you ask, I don't see myself being able to go through the personal growth necessary to be able to manage and delegate to a team, even if it's 2 people

No, I won't lose my job as a result of said conversation

I manage a small team (3 people at the moment). I've managed a largish team (20 odd people). I don't really manage them. I just try and manage the work and let them do whatever the fuck they want to do.

It's not that hard.

In stating that I don't want a promotion. When I managed the largish team the team was a mess. I could do that in the right situation but I don't really want to have more responsibility. I'm less than 5 years to FIRE and the only thing that will stuff me up is getting sacked which could happen because I'm taking less shit at work.

You sound like a good boss and a lot like my current boss.  If he left the company, I would be looking for a job almost immediately.

[Annette]

I agree with Uturn, it depends on how your boss sees this thing.Being wanting to stay in the same position is not a crime. You can develop a lot of skills and be more confident in your work.

[Jeremy E.]

I never want to be a manager either... The idea of having to give someone a performance review sounds horrible, I don't like evaluating other people. Luckily I'm a designer, my track just goes up to senior designer, all the supervisors/managers are engineers where I work.