Author Topic: Taxes on your time  (Read 5147 times)

Darian

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Location: Virginia
Taxes on your time
« on: October 15, 2021, 05:53:22 PM »
I went to the bank yesterday to open a new account, and was told by a customer service rep at the door that services that require a banker are now by appointment only and I would need to come back another day. Maybe because of COVID, but I also have to wonder how much money the bank is saving by staffing only one banker at a time and whether this will be a permanent change.

I feel like with the “labor shortage”, I’ve seen more and more cases of businesses assuming customers won’t notice if they cost us in terms of our time, rather than our money. Whether it’s only self-checkout lines available at the grocery store or a restaurant trying to get by with one waiter for 15 tables because they’re not willing to raise their prices or wages. Has anyone else noticed other recent examples?


Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7428
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2021, 06:45:13 PM »
I've noticed the lack of staffing. I've also stopped going to the the worst places. Figure if they're too cheap to pay their workers properly then they don't need my money.

The bank appt thing is annoying, but it's also pretty easy to work around.

ixtap

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4561
  • Age: 51
  • Location: SoCal
    • Our Sea Story
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2021, 06:57:04 PM »
Around here the self check out lines were installed well before COVID.

shuffler

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 572
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2021, 10:45:44 PM »
I feel like with the “labor shortage”, I’ve seen more and more cases of businesses assuming customers won’t notice if they cost us in terms of our time, rather than our money. Whether it’s only self-checkout lines available at the grocery store ...
Self-check saves me time.  There's many more registers available, so I almost never have to wait in line.  On the rare occasion that I do, the wait is shorter and more consistent (no getting stuck in line behind the check-writer or other slow downs).

Not to mention the fringe benefits of bagging the way I want it done, and not having to (not) make small-talk.
I purposely choose grocery stores with self-check.  There's only one without that I still go to, for a couple specific/exclusive items only.

Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4536
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2021, 11:40:20 PM »
I've noticed the reduced staffing a lot recently, especially outside of the big city - I did a trip out to my hometown and it was virtually impossible to buy lunch anywhere, because basically every restaurant had to cut back to dinner service only. But it didn't seem like it was due to companies not wanting to hire enough people - I saw Help Wanted signs EVERYWHERE. I suspect it's more due to 1. the crappy pay and 2. a LOT of people left the service industry altogether during COVID when everything shut down, and he service industry isn't really something people decide to go back to. There's also been a definite shift away from teenagers working at all, who used to fill a lot of those jobs.

Like some of the other people here, I also personally really prefer self checkout and actively avoid human cashiers wherever possible.

seattlecyclone

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7254
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • My blog
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2021, 11:51:25 PM »
I feel like with the “labor shortage”, I’ve seen more and more cases of businesses assuming customers won’t notice if they cost us in terms of our time, rather than our money. Whether it’s only self-checkout lines available at the grocery store ...
Self-check saves me time.  There's many more registers available, so I almost never have to wait in line.  On the rare occasion that I do, the wait is shorter and more consistent (no getting stuck in line behind the check-writer or other slow downs).

Not to mention the fringe benefits of bagging the way I want it done, and not having to (not) make small-talk.
I purposely choose grocery stores with self-check.  There's only one without that I still go to, for a couple specific/exclusive items only.

I find self-check is fine when I'm buying a few things, but the pros get it done much faster when I'm buying a cart full of groceries. On top of the speed difference the machine is always treating you as a potential criminal. It yells at you if you don't place each item in the bagging area quickly enough. It makes you waste time flagging down an employee if you didn't place the item in the bagging area just right so as to make the scale add up the way it expects, or if you want to buy a beer, or use certain coupons. I'm no fan of pointless small talk either, but I find the staffed checkout a much more pleasant experience than running the self-check gauntlet.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9923
  • Registered member
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2021, 11:51:31 PM »
Another benefit of self checkout if you can verify the prices/coupons without holding everything up (one time Costco dude tried to charge me $18 for six avocados and was shocked shocked that I questioned the price

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9923
  • Registered member
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2021, 11:54:15 PM »

I find self-check is fine when I'm buying a few things, but the pros get it done much faster when I'm buying a cart full of groceries. On top of the speed difference the machine is always treating you as a potential criminal. It yells at you if you don't place each item in the bagging area quickly enough. It makes you waste time flagging down an employee if you didn't place the item in the bagging area just right so as to make the scale add up the way it expects, or if you want to buy a beer, or use certain coupons. I'm no fan of pointless small talk either, but I find the staffed checkout a much more pleasant experience than running the self-check gauntlet.

This does make a big difference.

Home Depot has a really good system.  You can use a wireless scanner. Beep beep beep, pay, leave.  No unwanted items in the bagging area

Costco on the other hand is ridiculous.  No scanner.  Have to place every item on the scale (Costco often has large packages).  Makes no damn sense, I only do it if I forgot a single item and have to go back in

rosarugosa

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
  • Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2021, 05:14:58 AM »
I feel like with the “labor shortage”, I’ve seen more and more cases of businesses assuming customers won’t notice if they cost us in terms of our time, rather than our money. Whether it’s only self-checkout lines available at the grocery store ...
Self-check saves me time.  There's many more registers available, so I almost never have to wait in line.  On the rare occasion that I do, the wait is shorter and more consistent (no getting stuck in line behind the check-writer or other slow downs).

Not to mention the fringe benefits of bagging the way I want it done, and not having to (not) make small-talk.
I purposely choose grocery stores with self-check.  There's only one without that I still go to, for a couple specific/exclusive items only.

I find self-check is fine when I'm buying a few things, but the pros get it done much faster when I'm buying a cart full of groceries. On top of the speed difference the machine is always treating you as a potential criminal. It yells at you if you don't place each item in the bagging area quickly enough. It makes you waste time flagging down an employee if you didn't place the item in the bagging area just right so as to make the scale add up the way it expects, or if you want to buy a beer, or use certain coupons. I'm no fan of pointless small talk either, but I find the staffed checkout a much more pleasant experience than running the self-check gauntlet.

Yes, with self-checkout, I will always get the slow, not so bright cashier, and that would be me, lol.  It isn't something I will ever do with enough frequency to attain full mastery, nor is it a skill I really aspire to master. I cannot imagine doing a full week's shopping load at a self-checkout kiosk. 

Cranky

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3842
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2021, 05:52:32 AM »
The Home Depot in my neighborhood basically only has self checkout now, but they have an employee there full time to help, which seems like it doesn’t save all that much.

Yesterday we discovered that the walk in hair salon no longer takes walk ins, and all the appointments were booked until next week.

maizefolk

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7400
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2021, 07:22:19 AM »
There was a nice NY Times article a couple of days ago on this same topic and how reduced service quality (like reduced package sizes) can be a way to hide cost increases by not increasing prices.

Quote
A hotel room might cost the same as a year ago — but no longer include daily cleaning services because of a shortage of housekeepers. Some restaurants are offering limited service, with waiters stretched thin. ... Customer sentiment on restaurant cleanliness fell 4.2 percent this year, according to Black Box Intelligence, which tracks online reviews of 60,000 restaurants. Complaints have been frequent about the cleanliness of tables, floors and bathrooms. Satisfaction with customer service was also down, especially regarding beverages, with guests complaining more about receiving the wrong order or no drink at all.

People trying to buy appliances and other retail goods are waiting longer. According to J.D. Power, even at the highest-rated retailers, only 57 percent of customers were able to get customer service within five minutes this year, down from 68 percent in 2018.

Government statistics agencies try to take changes in product quality into account when calculating inflation. But that process, known as hedonic adjustment, most commonly applies to physical objects. It is relatively straightforward to estimate the value of, say, the quality of stitching on a shirt or the value of a backup camera on a new car. There is a whole world of inflation alarmists who argue that this process leads to the understating of true inflation.

But quality changes involving customer service can be ambiguous and hard to measure. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, which generates the Consumer Price Index, does not incorporate quality adjustment on 237 out of 273 components that go into the index, including the vast majority of services.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 07:44:09 AM by maizefolk »

Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4536
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2021, 02:20:56 PM »
There was a nice NY Times article a couple of days ago on this same topic and how reduced service quality (like reduced package sizes) can be a way to hide cost increases by not increasing prices.

Quote
A hotel room might cost the same as a year ago — but no longer include daily cleaning services because of a shortage of housekeepers. Some restaurants are offering limited service, with waiters stretched thin. ... Customer sentiment on restaurant cleanliness fell 4.2 percent this year, according to Black Box Intelligence, which tracks online reviews of 60,000 restaurants. Complaints have been frequent about the cleanliness of tables, floors and bathrooms. Satisfaction with customer service was also down, especially regarding beverages, with guests complaining more about receiving the wrong order or no drink at all.

People trying to buy appliances and other retail goods are waiting longer. According to J.D. Power, even at the highest-rated retailers, only 57 percent of customers were able to get customer service within five minutes this year, down from 68 percent in 2018.

Government statistics agencies try to take changes in product quality into account when calculating inflation. But that process, known as hedonic adjustment, most commonly applies to physical objects. It is relatively straightforward to estimate the value of, say, the quality of stitching on a shirt or the value of a backup camera on a new car. There is a whole world of inflation alarmists who argue that this process leads to the understating of true inflation.

But quality changes involving customer service can be ambiguous and hard to measure. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, which generates the Consumer Price Index, does not incorporate quality adjustment on 237 out of 273 components that go into the index, including the vast majority of services.

Maybe I'm the weirdo, but I actually find a lot of those to be a plus as well. If I'm travelling, I really prefer to NOT have someone poking around my room when I'm not there - it's one of the big appeals of things like AirBnB. Same with restaurants - I really prefer the service in places like Europe where they leave a pitcher of water on the table to serve yourself, and aren't asking you how the food is tasting every five minutes. The traditional North American service model where the employees are constantly up your ass really needs to go.

maizefolk

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7400
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2021, 03:09:38 PM »
They touched on that later in the article too. Some people consider hotels where you can self check in with a phone app an improvement in service quality and other a decrease.

I'm on your side when it comes to self checkouts and ordering food from tablets instead of a person.

At the same time I guess declines in cleanliness, longer lines to order, and longer wait times are probably things we can agree are going to be seen as decreases in quality by most people.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9923
  • Registered member
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2021, 08:24:47 PM »
They touched on that later in the article too. Some people consider hotels where you can self check in with a phone app an improvement in service quality and other a decrease.

I'm on your side when it comes to self checkouts and ordering food from tablets instead of a person.

At the same time I guess declines in cleanliness, longer lines to order, and longer wait times are probably things we can agree are going to be seen as decreases in quality by most people.

Yeah I pretty much always leave the do not disturb sign on the door from checkin to checkout.  If I need towels I grab them off the cart

dang1

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 489
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2021, 11:34:20 PM »
I do wish I don't have to talk to a representative on the phone to get things done. I prefer online self-service. If not self-service, then chat / sms / email- just not a voice call

Dave1442397

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1646
  • Location: NJ
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2021, 06:33:11 AM »
My local grocery store has an app that you can use while you're shopping. You scan and bag each item as you walk around, and when you're done, you go to self-checkout and scan your phone to process the list and pay.

dcheesi

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1309
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2021, 06:44:57 AM »
My local grocery store has an app that you can use while you're shopping. You scan and bag each item as you walk around, and when you're done, you go to self-checkout and scan your phone to process the list and pay.
Sam's Club has this as well. You even pay through the app; the only direct interaction is with the receipt checker at the exit, who scans a barcode on your phone.

It's the one thing I really miss since switching my membership to Costco.

beekayworld

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 234
  • Location: SoCal
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2021, 12:35:32 PM »
There is a discussion on NextDoor about the number of places that no longer have public restrooms which is what you are calling a "time tax" as we have to leave the business to find a restroom somewhere else.

Discussion over whether that's due to the lack of staff to clean them or due to homeless people taking "sink showers".

My personal experience with this was due to a lack of staff. The local Jack-in-the-box has a sign on the door "Indoor dining is closed due to staff shortage. Please use the drive-through" which eliminates public use of their restroom.  I had to drive to the library near by and then return to the drive-through.


wageslave23

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1755
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2021, 05:50:15 AM »
There is a discussion on NextDoor about the number of places that no longer have public restrooms which is what you are calling a "time tax" as we have to leave the business to find a restroom somewhere else.

Discussion over whether that's due to the lack of staff to clean them or due to homeless people taking "sink showers".

My personal experience with this was due to a lack of staff. The local Jack-in-the-box has a sign on the door "Indoor dining is closed due to staff shortage. Please use the drive-through" which eliminates public use of their restroom.  I had to drive to the library near by and then return to the drive-through.

How about stores start charging $3 or something if you want to use the restroom.  I think that would be fair. Plus then I wouldn't feel like I had to buy something or sneak in like I'm doing something wrong.  This could then be used to actually keep the bathrooms clean and safe.  And customers not using the bathrooms wouldn't have to indirectly subsidize them.

dcheesi

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1309
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2021, 06:30:17 AM »
There is a discussion on NextDoor about the number of places that no longer have public restrooms which is what you are calling a "time tax" as we have to leave the business to find a restroom somewhere else.

Discussion over whether that's due to the lack of staff to clean them or due to homeless people taking "sink showers".

My personal experience with this was due to a lack of staff. The local Jack-in-the-box has a sign on the door "Indoor dining is closed due to staff shortage. Please use the drive-through" which eliminates public use of their restroom.  I had to drive to the library near by and then return to the drive-through.
I had a version of this when I was traveling recently. Not once, but twice, I went to a large-chain coffee shop, only to find that their lobby was closed. In both cases, I was going there specifically to use their facilities (bathroom and/or or wifi/workspace) --the coffee was just supposed to be the price of entry. A drive-thru does me no good in such situations *grr*

yachi

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1141
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2021, 06:46:45 AM »
My 2-year old's favorite phrase at the grocery store is "put it in the bagging area" because that's what the self checkout machine says all the time for her (she needs extra time between scanning and putting it in the bagging area.  I like not having to stand in line and wait during checkout, and self-checkout gets me this at the local grocery store.  But these changes predate COVID. 

As far as banks go, I'm conflicted.  Most of the time I don't need a physical presence for my bank, but the times that I do need something, there is no other alternative.  For example, when I needed a Medallion guarantee to move money to a new brokerage.  That was a royal pain, but I don't expect to need anything like that going forward.
 I can usually go months without going to a bank, and that often includes the ATM too.  The last time I needed a person in a bank was when we signed our mortgage papers last year, and that guy was just borrowing office space.  The time before that I needed a person because the bank had a bug in their system for signing up for online banking.  That was fixed with a phone call, but I had to make a loan payment at their bank, so I needed to talk to a cashier there.


maizefolk

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7400
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2021, 04:46:54 PM »
How about stores start charging $3 or something if you want to use the restroom.  I think that would be fair. Plus then I wouldn't feel like I had to buy something or sneak in like I'm doing something wrong.  This could then be used to actually keep the bathrooms clean and safe.  And customers not using the bathrooms wouldn't have to indirectly subsidize them.

Seems to be common in (at least parts of) europe. But I think it would be hard to implement here. In my experience people often get much angrier at being told something that use to be free now costs money than they do at being told something that used to be free is now no longer offered.

dandarc

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5457
  • Age: 41
  • Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2021, 05:15:03 PM »

I find self-check is fine when I'm buying a few things, but the pros get it done much faster when I'm buying a cart full of groceries. On top of the speed difference the machine is always treating you as a potential criminal. It yells at you if you don't place each item in the bagging area quickly enough. It makes you waste time flagging down an employee if you didn't place the item in the bagging area just right so as to make the scale add up the way it expects, or if you want to buy a beer, or use certain coupons. I'm no fan of pointless small talk either, but I find the staffed checkout a much more pleasant experience than running the self-check gauntlet.

This does make a big difference.

Home Depot has a really good system.  You can use a wireless scanner. Beep beep beep, pay, leave.  No unwanted items in the bagging area

Costco on the other hand is ridiculous.  No scanner.  Have to place every item on the scale (Costco often has large packages).  Makes no damn sense, I only do it if I forgot a single item and have to go back in
At Costco I try and set up my cart so you can easily see all the barcodes and then go through regular checkout. We tend not to be buying 50 items at Costco, so tipping the boxes so the barcode is up is super easy. Somewhat amusing how long it takes the person with a much fuller cart in front of me go through, then half the time they haven't even moved towards the exit and I'm already done with my purchase. Of course, I'm also able to go during usually not very busy times - if there's more than 2 customers per regular check out line, I'll suck it up and head to the self checkout.

The self-checkouts at our Costco usually feature between 1 and 3 cashiers with a scan gun covering 6 stations - if you are lucky enough one of them helps you, then it is just as fast, possibly faster, due to the usually shorter line. But if unlucky, there's someone having an issue and you have to take everything out as you described.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9923
  • Registered member
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2021, 07:24:29 PM »
I’ve never seen a helper with handheld scanner at my Costco

I don’t know why they don’t just have one at each station.. even target does.  It must be harder to control “creative scanning” but since they also check your cart at the the door I’m really not sure

simonsez

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2021, 02:22:10 PM »
I’ve never seen a helper with handheld scanner at my Costco

I don’t know why they don’t just have one at each station.. even target does.  It must be harder to control “creative scanning” but since they also check your cart at the the door I’m really not sure
You mean if you bought a case of Prosecco you'd have to lug all of the bottles up to the counter rather than leaving them there in the cart in the nice box?

I've never seen a helper without a handheld scanner.

Then again, I've been to Costcos that don't sell gasoline, or cars, or the certain kind of tuna in olive oil that I love, or liquor - they're really quite variable.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9923
  • Registered member
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2021, 01:52:18 AM »
I’ve never seen a helper with handheld scanner at my Costco

I don’t know why they don’t just have one at each station.. even target does.  It must be harder to control “creative scanning” but since they also check your cart at the the door I’m really not sure
You mean if you bought a case of Prosecco you'd have to lug all of the bottles up to the counter rather than leaving them there in the cart in the nice box?

I've never seen a helper without a handheld scanner.

Then again, I've been to Costcos that don't sell gasoline, or cars, or the certain kind of tuna in olive oil that I love, or liquor - they're really quite variable.

Yup, I mean I could call someone over and maybe they'd have a scanner, but it's not like they're waiting right there to help me.  But I couldn't even get prosecco through the self-check here in CA (I've successfully bought wine in a FL location though)

That tangentially brings up a pet peeve of mine that I call the self-checkout roulette.  If you run into any problems, you usually wait so long for help that it would have been faster to just go in a regular line.  Costco seems pretty fast but other places may or may not have anyone actually watching those machines

AccidentialMustache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2021, 07:50:20 AM »
Meijer at one point had full-cart-sized self-checkouts. Conveyor belt to the steel bagging area at the end, just like a normal staffed checkout. Apparently those had to go because they led to too much theft. I'm sure part of the issue was difficulty of use, but if you paid some attention and got good babying the machine, they were the best. Drop the item 1cm onto the belt so the weight sensor sees it, go on with the next item. You can bag, so you don't get some moron who sets the bread to be crushed by something heavy. Lay cut fruit flat, so it doesn't leak. Little things, you know?

simonsez

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1576
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2021, 09:47:51 AM »
I’ve never seen a helper with handheld scanner at my Costco

I don’t know why they don’t just have one at each station.. even target does.  It must be harder to control “creative scanning” but since they also check your cart at the the door I’m really not sure
You mean if you bought a case of Prosecco you'd have to lug all of the bottles up to the counter rather than leaving them there in the cart in the nice box?

I've never seen a helper without a handheld scanner.

Then again, I've been to Costcos that don't sell gasoline, or cars, or the certain kind of tuna in olive oil that I love, or liquor - they're really quite variable.

Yup, I mean I could call someone over and maybe they'd have a scanner, but it's not like they're waiting right there to help me.  But I couldn't even get prosecco through the self-check here in CA (I've successfully bought wine in a FL location though)

That tangentially brings up a pet peeve of mine that I call the self-checkout roulette.  If you run into any problems, you usually wait so long for help that it would have been faster to just go in a regular line.  Costco seems pretty fast but other places may or may not have anyone actually watching those machines
Yeah, that's interesting.  I don't have self-checkout as an option at the ones near me, but I'm okay with it as usually while the cashier is scanning items I'm usually sauntering off to get a few empty boxes so I can help pack more efficiently or if wife is with me, one of us is moseying over to get a slice of pizza in case there's a food line.  Me having to also checkout and scan every item would not be an increase in productivity, even without issues.

At my local grocery store, the self-checkout area never had/has paper bags (back during the more stringent COVID times when I couldn't bring in my own bags) for some reason and only the plastic so I avoid.  Alcohol is annoying to have to call someone over when if I was in a non-automated line they would automatically bypass that silliness for me.

These aren't difficult problems to overcome and I'm sure automated systems in the grocery world will continue to get better but at the moment I'm still on Team Human even if it can take longer in some instances.  I figure it's still many orders of magnitude faster/easier/cheaper than growing everything myself.

Morning Glory

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4867
  • Location: The Garden Path
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2021, 09:52:19 AM »
This one was interesting:

https://www.businessinsider.com/worker-applied-to-60-jobs-got-one-interview-labor-shortage-2021-10

It seems like some businesses might be putting up fake help-wanted signs to make the labor shortage seem worse than it actually is, in order to stir up sentiment against government spending.


Just Joe

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6721
  • Location: In the middle....
  • Teach me something.
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2021, 10:15:49 AM »
I feel like with the “labor shortage”, I’ve seen more and more cases of businesses assuming customers won’t notice if they cost us in terms of our time, rather than our money. Whether it’s only self-checkout lines available at the grocery store ...
Self-check saves me time.  There's many more registers available, so I almost never have to wait in line.  On the rare occasion that I do, the wait is shorter and more consistent (no getting stuck in line behind the check-writer or other slow downs).

Not to mention the fringe benefits of bagging the way I want it done, and not having to (not) make small-talk.
I purposely choose grocery stores with self-check.  There's only one without that I still go to, for a couple specific/exclusive items only.

I find self-check is fine when I'm buying a few things, but the pros get it done much faster when I'm buying a cart full of groceries. On top of the speed difference the machine is always treating you as a potential criminal. It yells at you if you don't place each item in the bagging area quickly enough. It makes you waste time flagging down an employee if you didn't place the item in the bagging area just right so as to make the scale add up the way it expects, or if you want to buy a beer, or use certain coupons. I'm no fan of pointless small talk either, but I find the staffed checkout a much more pleasant experience than running the self-check gauntlet.

Yes, with self-checkout, I will always get the slow, not so bright cashier, and that would be me, lol.  It isn't something I will ever do with enough frequency to attain full mastery, nor is it a skill I really aspire to master. I cannot imagine doing a full week's shopping load at a self-checkout kiosk.

Or the customer that still writes paper checks...

Just Joe

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6721
  • Location: In the middle....
  • Teach me something.
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2021, 10:22:34 AM »
This one was interesting:

https://www.businessinsider.com/worker-applied-to-60-jobs-got-one-interview-labor-shortage-2021-10

It seems like some businesses might be putting up fake help-wanted signs to make the labor shortage seem worse than it actually is, in order to stir up sentiment against government spending.

That might make sense for the 20-something I know that can't seen to find a job despite all the help wanted signs...

Arbitrage

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2021, 10:40:10 AM »
My local grocery store has an app that you can use while you're shopping. You scan and bag each item as you walk around, and when you're done, you go to self-checkout and scan your phone to process the list and pay.
Sam's Club has this as well. You even pay through the app; the only direct interaction is with the receipt checker at the exit, who scans a barcode on your phone.

It's the one thing I really miss since switching my membership to Costco.

Ditto.  Well, I guess there are a few other things I miss about Sam's Club (certain items), but that app was gold, especially for someone who shops by bike+trailer that doubles as a shopping cart.  Skip all of the lines.  There isn't a Sam's Club where I live now, so the switch was made regardless. 

js82

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 520
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2021, 07:02:04 PM »
Around here the self check out lines were installed well before COVID.

And in my experience they're often quicker than waiting for a cashier, meaning they're the exact opposite of a "tax on one's time".

However, there are plenty of other examples of businesses pushing more responsibilities onto their customers/employees that the business itself used to take care of, however.  This includes classics such as "customer service" requiring you to talk your way through 8 layers of robo-prompts before reaching a human being.

My recent favorite was attempting to book flights for my honeymoon, and Delta's website was glitching.  I was talking to their automated service.

CS-Bot: "What city are you flying out of?"
Me: (City Name)
CS-Bot: "I'm sorry, I didn't understand you.  What city are you flying out of?"
Me, slightly annoyed: (City Name)
CS-Bot: "I'm sorry, I didn't understand you.  What city are you flying out of?"
Me, slightly annoyed while my wife is laughing hysterically: (City name, mispronounced in hopes that the CS-Bot is looking for the way non-locals sometimes mispronounce it)
CS-Bot: Please wait.  A customer service representative will be available in 32 minutes
Me: Hangs up and decides to book a portion of the trip on United instead
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 07:03:58 PM by js82 »

elysianfields

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 515
  • Location: Asia
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2021, 02:44:24 AM »
I went to the bank yesterday to open a new account, and was told by a customer service rep at the door that services that require a banker are now by appointment only and I would need to come back another day. Maybe because of COVID, but I also have to wonder how much money the bank is saving by staffing only one banker at a time and whether this will be a permanent change.

I find it surprising that you *went* physically to a bank to open an account.

With ATMs, mobile & direct deposits, ACH transfers, Paypal & Venmo, why would one ever visit a bank?  The only reason I can imagine is for a safety deposit box...

Britan

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 428
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2021, 04:43:56 AM »
I nearly always go to a cashier when I’m at the grocery store unless I’m getting under 5 items that are all bar coded. I buy enough produce that it’s significantly faster for them to type in the numbers they have memorized vs me fumbling my way through it. Add to it that I bring my own bags (so self checkout requires a staff member to verify you aren’t stealing anything before letting you bag) and I often have a “helpful” toddler……. The cashier is much faster.

Of course then I went to Aldi for the first time and Oh. My. God. I got through that line so fast and with so little stress bagging on the other side. I love their process and have no idea how I’ve ever lived without it. It puts more on the consumer to load the conveyor (vs Harris Teeter) and bag (vs Safeway and others that aren’t bagging in my area anyways rn “due to COVID”), but I so vastly prefer it.

I did physically go to a bank once to open our joint checking. I forget why, but I think because they wanted an original copy of our marriage certificate? And unless I went in, the process was you mail it and then never get it back, which I wasn’t ok with. A certified copy I think would have worked but that would have added the step of ordering (and paying for) one of those from the city…

coppertop

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 458
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2021, 08:12:16 AM »
Every time I self check-out, I get the machine screaming at me "Put the item in the bag!!!!" even if it's already in the bag.  Too much stress for me.  I am retired, so I just avoid peak hours at the store and checkout is generally nice and quick. 

By the River

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 464
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2021, 08:10:36 AM »
I find it surprising that you *went* physically to a bank to open an account.

With ATMs, mobile & direct deposits, ACH transfers, Paypal & Venmo, why would one ever visit a bank?  The only reason I can imagine is for a safety deposit box...

My (small) bank is close to my office so every couple of weeks I walk into the lobby and withdraw cash.  There is an ATM outside but I feel like I'm helping the tellers keep their jobs, gives me a break and I get exercise.  win/win/win

Arbitrage

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1405
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2021, 09:15:25 AM »
I went to the bank yesterday to open a new account, and was told by a customer service rep at the door that services that require a banker are now by appointment only and I would need to come back another day. Maybe because of COVID, but I also have to wonder how much money the bank is saving by staffing only one banker at a time and whether this will be a permanent change.

I find it surprising that you *went* physically to a bank to open an account.

With ATMs, mobile & direct deposits, ACH transfers, Paypal & Venmo, why would one ever visit a bank?  The only reason I can imagine is for a safety deposit box...

I moved recently and have no local banks here.  However, I did have a pressing need for a bank on several occasions recently, to conduct large cash-based transactions locally (Facebook Marketplace).  ATMs and such don't really cut it when you need $1000+ in cash, fast.  Many people won't take Venmo.  Thankfully, I was able to locate some partner credit unions that helped out with that. 

OtherJen

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5267
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2021, 09:26:13 AM »
I went to the bank yesterday to open a new account, and was told by a customer service rep at the door that services that require a banker are now by appointment only and I would need to come back another day. Maybe because of COVID, but I also have to wonder how much money the bank is saving by staffing only one banker at a time and whether this will be a permanent change.

I find it surprising that you *went* physically to a bank to open an account.

With ATMs, mobile & direct deposits, ACH transfers, Paypal & Venmo, why would one ever visit a bank?  The only reason I can imagine is for a safety deposit box...

When my non-profit organization switches officers, we're required to physically go to the bank to add new people to the business accounts and have to bring paperwork demonstrating the legal transfer of power.

Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7335
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2021, 09:33:06 AM »
I went to the bank yesterday to open a new account, and was told by a customer service rep at the door that services that require a banker are now by appointment only and I would need to come back another day. Maybe because of COVID, but I also have to wonder how much money the bank is saving by staffing only one banker at a time and whether this will be a permanent change.

I find it surprising that you *went* physically to a bank to open an account.

With ATMs, mobile & direct deposits, ACH transfers, Paypal & Venmo, why would one ever visit a bank?  The only reason I can imagine is for a safety deposit box...

When my non-profit organization switches officers, we're required to physically go to the bank to add new people to the business accounts and have to bring paperwork demonstrating the legal transfer of power.

Yes, same with my condo association.

dandarc

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5457
  • Age: 41
  • Pronouns: he/him/his
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2021, 09:44:30 AM »
Friggin banks man. Vanguard for our church is a PITA too - so often stuff that for me as an individual can be done online winds up "get 4 people to sign a form and mail in with a copy of corporate minutes".

moof

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 809
  • Location: Beaver Town Orygun
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2021, 01:57:57 PM »
Every time I self check-out, I get the machine screaming at me "Put the item in the bag!!!!" even if it's already in the bag.  Too much stress for me.  I am retired, so I just avoid peak hours at the store and checkout is generally nice and quick.
This.  Self-checkout is a royal pain for anything beyond a few barcoded items.  As soon as I have to wade through menus of produce I am in instant regret.  They flag my bike panniers as being too heavy in the bagging area, so have to wait for a drone to clear the warning.  When you tell it you brought X number of your own bags you have to wait for a monitoring drone to amble over again and verify to the machine you actually did so.  Don't make it hard for me to hand you money is my mantra.

Insurance covering rock chips:  Paid this in cash since the poor guy at the repair shop trying to help me had been on hold for 20 minutes waiting for confirmation about waiving the deductible.  Staff your phones folks.

Loren Ver

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Handlebar Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 1223
  • Location: Midwest USA
  • I Retired. Yah!
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2021, 06:35:52 PM »
Now that things have gone more electronic the desire to have the end user (me) duplicate information for the convenience of the company.

The most popular example would probably be when applying to jobs.  Type all your information into this (generally not very user friendly) application (sometimes with duplicated fields).  Now attached your resume that has all this information.  Ah the joys of electronic screening.  Glad I have moved past that part of my life.

Also, Thank you for emailing company, your email is important to us.  Please fill out all the information you took the time to type out into the original email into this form for our convenience and use the drop down menus that probably wont apply.  Then we will hopefully send it to the right person to look at it.  Have a nice day.

Now, I would much rather email than call someone, but I really dislike duplicating information (obviously) and I'm a big believer that errors increase the more times you transcribe information.  It is also a waste of my time -as oppose to someone else's. :)


RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20747
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2021, 08:37:35 PM »
I went to the bank yesterday to open a new account, and was told by a customer service rep at the door that services that require a banker are now by appointment only and I would need to come back another day. Maybe because of COVID, but I also have to wonder how much money the bank is saving by staffing only one banker at a time and whether this will be a permanent change.

I find it surprising that you *went* physically to a bank to open an account.

With ATMs, mobile & direct deposits, ACH transfers, Paypal & Venmo, why would one ever visit a bank?  The only reason I can imagine is for a safety deposit box...

When my non-profit organization switches officers, we're required to physically go to the bank to add new people to the business accounts and have to bring paperwork demonstrating the legal transfer of power.

Same here, and totally different jurisdictions.  Obvious precaution against fraud.

fuzzy math

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1726
  • Age: 42
  • Location: PNW
Re: Taxes on your time
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2021, 01:23:11 PM »
I, an inexperienced self-check user, am much faster than the locals at my walmart. So I use the self check. I also realized that they have coin and bill insert slots and I strategically take my coins there and dump a bunch in. It allows me to avoid the embarrassment of handing a cashier a bunch of pennies. I bank online only and there's not another fee free convenient way to use up change.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!