Stuck in that famiar place..broke.

[pdxmonkey]

Your hair is on fire. 
Your annual cell phone bill would cover me for 6 years. (not exaggerating)
+1 on cutting up the Kohl's card.  There is NOTHING you can buy there that you can't find at a thrift store.
Your annual car fuel would cover me for about 4 years and this includes about 4000 miles of vacation trips yearly.
Housing, vehicles, etc
I feel bad for ya but you have a lot to fix unless you always want to live this way.  If your job sucks look for a new one.  Take action and good luck.

P.S.  holy shit. Find that 11 grand.

Ha. Likewise his power bill would somehow pay for 6 years of electricity for me. I can't conceive of how to use that much electricity. I work from home so I'm here using power all day and even have lights on during the day. Unless power is $1 a kilowatt hour or something I don't see how it gets to 3k.

I used to live on less money than this guy in a HCOL area. He's got 3 additional people, but the higher income he has compared to the ghost of monkey past should make up the difference easily as the ghost of monkey past lived in a 3 br house with two empty rooms so the only difference should be food clothes, a bit of healthcare... And his location is way cheaper.

[Petunia 100]

Cancel the life insurance for your wife and kids already! Do it now, you are wasting over $600/year on this!! Incidentally, this is also the amount of your premium increases in 2017.

I disagree about cancelling the life insurance on his wife.   If she were to die prematurely, OP would need to hire help to care for the children.   Also, he would be grieving and might not be functioning at 100%.   

Agree with everything else you said.

[Bee21]

I was surprised to see that you are in a worse spot than last year. And that you did not take any of the recommendations on board.

Stop complaining and do sth simple to improve your life. Baby steps. Have a conversation with your wife and come up with a plan you are both comfortable with. 11k does not disappear, try to find where the leaks are. One of you has a spending problem which is not acknowledged.track your spending. Yes, it is hard, it is inconvenient, it is uncomfortable to face our bad decisions, but you need to understand your spending.

Sort out the phones and the insurance, you do not need to spend that much on these.  Cancel the kids insurance.put that money in a savings account instead. Keep the wife's. My dinosaur cell top up is 50 dollars and it lasts 3 months. Just saying.i simply don't talk that much and use the computer instead for browsing. Phone is for emergencies so it shouldn't be a money pit.

You are not really talking about your side business. Is it a money pit or it is at least paying for that machine loan. Do you bring in money? Do a ruthless cost benefit analysis and see whether it is worth keeping?

They say that we need to run our homes like a business, try this concept. Do a stocktake. Do a cost benefit analysis before purchases.analyse everything and try to optimise your spending. There is so much information available on this site.

[former player]

None of this advice will work if OP's wife is not on board.  I strongly suspect she isn't.

[Villanelle]

Op, lots has been suggested in this thread, and in your last one.

You seem to have not taken much of the advice in the last one.  Are you actually ready to make changes this time, or is this more about asking for help because that makes you feel like you are tackling the problem but doesn't actually require change and sacrifice and discomfort? 

Until you show you are actually ready and willing to make changes (and the way you show that is by actually making them, now, without excuses or delays), it's really pointless for anyone else to chime in with more suggestions, because for now, this isn't a problem of income, and it's not even a problem with expenses.  It's a problem with willingness to start doing something different than what you've always done. If you want not to have this stress--nevermind wanting to actually retire someday--you'll do it.  If you instead want not to have to track you spending to the penny, to cut your phone bill and have to actually pay attention to your decisions to use data or not, to have those money-sucking hobby that you seem to call a side hustle because that sounds more responsible than "hobby" but that is costing you money not making it, then so be it.  Do those things instead, but know that you are choosing the over financial security for your family. 

So, what's it gonna be?  The status quo with a fancy internet package and life insurance for your kids (???) and $11,000 ($11,000!!!!) just disappearing every year? Or radical self-evaulation and change?  If you truly want the latter (rather than just wanting to say you've chosen the latter without actually do it), then start by making 4 changes, starting tomorrow.  Cancel the kids' life insurance, change your cell phone plan, cancel cable, and commit to writing down literally every penny you spend.  If you toss a quarters into a homeless person's cup, that needs to be logged.  (Of course, your wife needs to be on board with this.)  DO those three things, tomorrow.  Then report back, show us you are serious, and the amazing knowledge, intelligence, creative thinking, and willingness to help that are generally characteristic of this forum will help lead you down the rest of the path.

Or, go buy a Starbucks and sip on it while you sit and wish things are different. 

[DBMX1958]

I don't mean to sound harsh but it's time for you to get off your butt and change things. This side job that you spent money to start should be paying dividends now. You've been at it a couple years. You've cut back your hours by moving to your new job but still haven't put the effort into your side business.

Man, if you need to work 100 hours a week for a year or two to change your situation you have to make the sacrifice. 

Either ramp that side business up or cut your losses and sell the equipment and get rid of that note. Make better choices, getting rid of a couple of monthly expenses puts you on track.
 
Oh, find that grand a month, you really have no idea of where that money is going?

No amount of internet banter is going to change your situation, only you and your wife can make that happen.

You've got some great advice here, heed it.

Once you have this epiphany things will get easier. 

[Mikila]

Look, change is uncomfortable.  You are going to have to change your behavior if you want different results.  Yes, your wife, too.  I could give you tons of advice as others have, but what is the point unless you want it badly enough?  The knowledge is available.  Now go do it!

[Cassie]

A few years ago I got ruthless about cutting expenses, checking for cheaper insurance rates, etc. It really added up. Also you should have term life insurance for you and your wife which will be very cheap and none on the kids.

[mlejw6]

All this talk about cutting expenses is useless. OP, do you realize that if you really truly spent ONLY on the expenses you listed, you could pay off your wife's entire Kohl's credit card in a single month? And, I'm including the medical debt you talked about but didn't list in your expenses, too. You'd have a 20% savings rate. You could pay off your business loan in 7 months. By next summer, you'd have freed up $270 from your budget (in addition to the $900), and would be up to a 25% savings rate.

You are like a kid that is lost and asks a stranger to take them home. You don't know your address and you don't know your last name. The only names you know are your own and mommy and daddy. No one can help you because you don't have enough information. I'm serious about signing up for YNAB. People who regularly pay hundreds in overdraft fees before YNAB suddenly find hundreds of dollars to save every month after YNAB. You spend only the money you have (you can even use credit cards if you can control them). And you will learn your TRUE EXPENSES. I.e. you will learn exactly where all that $11000 is going. It's only $5/month. Finding $900 sounds worth it to me.

[taking fire]

I really do want to get us out of this mess. I am here for the advice, even if you happen to just be repeating yourself.

I did sign up for mint, but most of it is not functioning as it should due to us changing login information at some places and other stuff. I will get that straightened out.

One of the things that gets me every time with this is the spending tracking. I have admitted before that I have yet to be successful with a budget. Part of the reason for that is not having adequate information from the start. Every time I say we will commit to a budget, I realize we have no spending data and we can't do anything for at least a month, if not two. That is the way that I get discouraged. I told my wife last night, this wouldn't be such a hassle if we didn't have so much to keep track of. If we didn't spend so much, it would not be a problem.

The 11k is going somewhere. We do eat out occasionaly,. Most of the other things we buy don't cost that much, if we even do buy them. Most purchases of any sort go on the cc, simply because we don't have enough money otherwise.

I do all of the vehicle maintenance, so the only real cost there is parts and supplies (like oil and filter for oil changes).

What are some tips on starting the spending tracking, and how do I keep at it so that we have accurate records? My wife suggested tracking spending until January, and then getting started then. I am okay with this, but I wonder if we will just get lost in the fray again while two months passes.

That is one of my worst personal traits: no patience. I want everything to happen right now, and when it doesn't, I lose interest.

[NoStacheOhio]

One of the things that gets me every time with this is the spending tracking. I have admitted before that I have yet to be successful with a budget. Part of the reason for that is not having adequate information from the start. Every time I say we will commit to a budget, I realize we have no spending data and we can't do anything for at least a month, if not two. That is the way that I get discouraged. I told my wife last night, this wouldn't be such a hassle if we didn't have so much to keep track of. If we didn't spend so much, it would not be a problem.

Facepunch

Seriously, this is crap, and you know it. You may not keep track of where cash goes, but you at least know how much you took out of the ATM. Credit and debit transactions are all in your account statements. You probably have access to check images going back at least 30 days.

Go back and look at them. It may not be detailed enough, but it's somewhere to start. Fine tuning your budget could take a couple months, but that's OK.

Mint also keeps track of average spending by category. Just make sure you go in and fix any incorrect categorization, and categorize anything that's blank.

[pachnik]

Well, why don't you start tracking tomorrow - November 1.  First day of the month is a good time to get going.  Use paper & pen if you like.  It doesn't have to be complicated.   Just start!

[FINate]

What are some tips on starting the spending tracking, and how do I keep at it so that we have accurate records? My wife suggested tracking spending until January, and then getting started then. I am okay with this, but I wonder if we will just get lost in the fray again while two months passes.

Do not wait until January to get started! Your situation is only going to get worse with each passing day until you take decisive action, and is likely to get much worse over the holidays. I suspect your wife wants to put off changes as long as possible, especially during the holidays and the sales/shopping of the season (these are actually a huge rip-off, but people love them).

Here's your starting budget:

1) Begin with the spending you posted earlier in this thread
2) Cell phone budget gets cut to $800 - you should be able to find a workable plan for this amount. Yes, this means you need to give up the unlimited data. Yes, it means you need to limit your data usage. What can I say, you're on a budget.
3) Life insurance for kids: $0. Insurance for you and your wife is fine, just make sure it's cheap term life insurance.
4) Eating out: $0
5) Clothes: $0, unless it's a bonafide need (as in your underwear disintegrated, you've worn holes in your shoes, you get the drift - wanting a new style is not a necessity)
6) Alcohol: $0
7) Other non-essentials: $0
8) Entertainment: $0 Go on walks, read a book from the library, take a hike, ride a bike, do free stuff with your family, spend time analyzing your bank/CC statements to figure out where that 11k is going.

Make the credit cards inaccessible in some way (cut them, freeze them, have someone trustworthy hold onto them)

Money left over at the end of month goes to one of two things: Paying off high interest CC debt first. Saving for an emergency fund second.

Once you get a handle on your spending and find the missing 11k, then you can start gradually increasing some of the $0 categories.

This is not something you need more data to fix, only action.

One final suggestion: With the holidays coming, set a reasonable budget for gifts for your kids, you shouldn't need to spend very much for them to have a happy Christmas, something like $100 each. You and your wife don't exchange gifts this year. Reach out to family and call a gift giving truce: They don't buy gifts for you or your kids, and you do likewise. They may think you're weird, but better to be thought weird than to be broke.

[ysette9]

If you are signed up for Mint then you obviously have online access to your accounts (as does most living, breathing human being in the first world). That means you can go online and pull up old statements for your checking and savings accounts, credit cards, personal loans, and whatever other stuff is floating out there. Just pull those out and start crunching away. Mint or a similar service can do it for you. You can download the statements and make yourself a nice Excel spreadsheet. You can also do it the hard way with pencil and paper so you really know where things are going. Whatever you choose, you have the info at your fingertips; you just need to reach out and compile it together.

[horsepoor]

I really do want to get us out of this mess. I am here for the advice, even if you happen to just be repeating yourself.

I did sign up for mint, but most of it is not functioning as it should due to us changing login information at some places and other stuff. I will get that straightened out.

One of the things that gets me every time with this is the spending tracking. I have admitted before that I have yet to be successful with a budget. Part of the reason for that is not having adequate information from the start. Every time I say we will commit to a budget, I realize we have no spending data and we can't do anything for at least a month, if not two. That is the way that I get discouraged. I told my wife last night, this wouldn't be such a hassle if we didn't have so much to keep track of. If we didn't spend so much, it would not be a problem.

The 11k is going somewhere. We do eat out occasionaly,. Most of the other things we buy don't cost that much, if we even do buy them. Most purchases of any sort go on the cc, simply because we don't have enough money otherwise.

I do all of the vehicle maintenance, so the only real cost there is parts and supplies (like oil and filter for oil changes).

What are some tips on starting the spending tracking, and how do I keep at it so that we have accurate records? My wife suggested tracking spending until January, and then getting started then. I am okay with this, but I wonder if we will just get lost in the fray again while two months passes.

That is one of my worst personal traits: no patience. I want everything to happen right now, and when it doesn't, I lose interest.

Dude... Mint will go back several months so you can analyze spending patterns right away once you get your accounts linked up.  A good exercise would be going through Mint and categorizing your purchases for the last 30 or 60 days.  See if you can remember what each transaction was actually for.  A clear pattern of purchases that can be reduced or eliminated will appear pretty quickly. 

[okits]

My wife suggested tracking spending until January, and then getting started then.

The very act of tracking every penny should change your behaviour right away, for the better. 

Like, "I can't go to the coffee shop because I'd have to write down that I spent $8 on an overpriced coffee and pastry and I'm too embarrassed to admit that."

Or, "it's been a year since people advised me to stop paying life insurance for my kids when there's a 0.01% chance they'll die but a 100% chance we are screwed if an emergency comes up because we have no emergency fund.  I can't let another month go without taking action on this - I'd be ashamed if I was still paying the premiums next month."

That is one of my worst personal traits: no patience. I want everything to happen right now, and when it doesn't, I lose interest.

You can lose interest, but recognize that means you've lost interest in your family's financial wellbeing.   Meanwhile, the hole you're digging gets deeper and deeper.  If you're impatient, as soon as your work day is done take immediate action on a few of the items that have been mentioned over and over.  You don't need more data to know you can't afford your credit card debt or that paying for life insurance for your kids is a bad deal.  (Seriously.  If one of your kids dies I give you permission to crowdfunding for their burial expenses.  No facepunch in the extremely unlikely event it happens.)

Don't be back next year with another thread lamenting that you're no better off.  Take action.  We are rooting for you!

[TheDuder]

What are some tips on starting the spending tracking, and how do I keep at it so that we have accurate records? My wife suggested tracking spending until January, and then getting started then. I am okay with this, but I wonder if we will just get lost in the fray again while two months passes.

START TRACKING TOMORROW!! My stupid easy approach when I started tracking my monthly spend....you ready for this?

Open Excel (you can even do this on Google docs so you and your wife can input expenses), as I am guessing you have a computer.

Create a few column headers, with a big reach. Here are my categories: Dining Out, Groceries, Gas, Monthly Expenses, Other, and Income.

Breakdown of categories (XX-XX-XX are columns under these main categories):
Dining Out: Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner(Marked so I can see when I eat out most)-Place-Amount-Date
Groceries: Place-Amount-Date
Gas: Place-Amount-Date
Monthly Expenses (These are the reoccurring expenses): Car Ins/Utilities/CellPhone/Internet/Rent(Mortgage)/PestControl/Hulu/Netflix/SlingTV/Etc - Place(Service)-Amount-Date
Other(All other ish........Beer/Snacks/Golf stuff/CarParts/Etc): Place-Amount-Date-Reason
Income: Date-Amount

[JLee]

If you don't have any idea where you're money is going so you have to spend two months tracking it to figure it out, you're spending way too much money...

Every time you spend money on ANYTHING, ask yourself if you absolutely need to.

Everybody else has piled on enough suggestions to get you going.

Edit: You're spending $1,608/yr in insurance for $7k in vehicles....wtf? Fix that.

[snogirl]

Well, why don't you start tracking tomorrow - November 1.  First day of the month is a good time to get going.  Use paper & pen if you like.  It doesn't have to be complicated.   Just start!

This suggestion right here!
A piece of paper & a pen!
Every cent you spend
Fuck mint
You will get a clear picture in one freaking week how much gets pissed away guaranteed. A month of logging?
You'll change ....it will be right in front of your eyes like a picture of the titanic sinking. This simple action alone works!
Pen to paper!!!!!
Write EVERYTHING!
It's not rocket science.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[MilesTeg]

Why in the world do you have life insurance policies for your children? Life insurance is something that should only be had if the person being insured has ongoing financial obligations that even death won't get them out of. Things like leaving dependents who can't earn on their own behind, etc.

YOU and your wife need life insurance ( at this point ) because if you die your kids will need that insurance money to pay off all your debts that they will assume. Your kids don't.

[JLee]

Why in the world do you have life insurance policies for your children? Life insurance is something that should only be had if the person being insured has ongoing financial obligations that even death won't get them out of. Things like leaving dependents who can't earn on their own behind, etc.

YOU and your wife need life insurance ( at this point ) because if you die your kids will need that insurance money to pay off all your debts that they will assume. Your kids don't.

Since when are children responsible for their parents' debts?

[dycker1978]

Why in the world do you have life insurance policies for your children? Life insurance is something that should only be had if the person being insured has ongoing financial obligations that even death won't get them out of. Things like leaving dependents who can't earn on their own behind, etc.

YOU and your wife need life insurance ( at this point ) because if you die your kids will need that insurance money to pay off all your debts that they will assume. Your kids don't.

Since when are children responsible for their parents' debts?

My understanding is this is never the case.  If the children are minors though, someone will have to take on the expense of raising them.

[MilesTeg]

I have to be brutally honest. You make _very_ good money for your living situation. Hell, you make decent money even in a HCOL like where I am.

You are broke because you aren't committed to changing that. And frankly, with your income it's ridiculous that you are in the financial position that you are. The reason was clear, though, after I skimmed all your posts and found almost every poster's suggestions were rebuffed with excuses. So, I won't waste your or my time re-listing all those things. Instead, I'll just bring up one example:

No, there is no valid reason for you to use 30GB of data a month. None. Nada. Zip. To hell with your grandfathered plans, clinging to them is doing huge damage to your finances. None of your excuses are valid, and those attempts to justify spending $3,000/year on _phones_ is exactly the kind of thinking that you MUST change if you ever want to fix your financial life. Until you make peace with that, you will never, ever succeed.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I think we've scared the guy off again.

Maybe he will come back when he's ready.

[MilesTeg]

Why in the world do you have life insurance policies for your children? Life insurance is something that should only be had if the person being insured has ongoing financial obligations that even death won't get them out of. Things like leaving dependents who can't earn on their own behind, etc.

YOU and your wife need life insurance ( at this point ) because if you die your kids will need that insurance money to pay off all your debts that they will assume. Your kids don't.

Since when are children responsible for their parents' debts?

My understanding is this is never the case.  If the children are minors though, someone will have to take on the expense of raising them.

I misspoke a bit, I meant passing things on to wife and kids, not just kids. For example, mortgages. But as you say, it's more generally about providing for your dependents if they can't do it themselves.

[wenchsenior]

Well, why don't you start tracking tomorrow - November 1.  First day of the month is a good time to get going.  Use paper & pen if you like.  It doesn't have to be complicated.   Just start!

This suggestion right here!
A piece of paper & a pen!
Every cent you spend
Fuck mint
You will get a clear picture in one freaking week how much gets pissed away guaranteed. A month of logging?
You'll change ....it will be right in front of your eyes like a picture of the titanic sinking. This simple action alone works!
Pen to paper!!!!!
Write EVERYTHING!
It's not rocket science.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Yup. This one thing (setting up an excel spreadsheet with categorized columns of expenses and recording EVERY DAMN PENNY that went in and out of the house) was the single biggest step I've ever taken financially. I've been doing it for not quite ten years, and it was the biggest thing that took our household from 3 figure negative net worth 7 years ago to half a million net worth today. And even now, with our finances well managed, it still manages to offer me a virtual facepunch when our spending creeps up and I have to confront that end of the month total. It keeps me on track, no question, and that's why I still do it.

Every penny in and out of the household, without fail. Not at all complicated.

[Bee21]

No excuses! Life is haaaard. But as we all have finite resources, we have to learn how to manage them as best as we can. People around here can be a bit rough, but they are most helpful. And it is easier for you if some random internet stranger tells you to stop  complaining and stop wasting your money than if your best friend Bob calls you an  idiot.

Setting up a budget is not hard. Tracking your expenses is not hard. Making sure that you don't go over the budgeted amount is hard and requires a lot of determination.if you can't manage the budget, ask your wife to take that over from you. Is she on board? Does she have a plan?

As for tracking and data. If you don't want to do a realistic budget, because it is haaaard, just refuse to spend money on unnecessary stuff till you get out of debt. As it is easier to do this if you have a plan, get a folder with clear plastic sleaves and a few dividers. Find every bill you can locate and save them in that folder.  Save the receipts after shopping.That will give you the data you need (but i think you already have the information about the bills, no?) I keep all our paid bills in separate plastic sleaves according to their category (house, cars, kids), and it takes less than 2 minutes to locate the water bill or the car registration from say March. I have a folder and spreadsheet for each year so it easy to get historic data. I can highly recommend this if you claim that you can't do proper planning without data. If this is too hard, get a shoebox and collect your paid bills there. Just make sure they are in the same place. Then start an excel spreadsheet. There you can include your fixed and discretionary expenses. Have a separate column for planned and actual expenses and you can see immediately when you overspend. Spend 5 minutes a day updating that spreadsheet. Find your inner accountant. 😊

Print out some monthly and weekly calendars so that you see what activities and bills are coming up. Keep the menu plans and shopping lists in the same folder. Keep the receipts after shopping expeditions in the folder.

See, it is not that hard.

Have an uberfrugal November, when you don't buy anything just basic groceries. Use the savings to pay off your card. Sell some unwanted items.

Challange every bill/ every expense you have. Do you need it? Do you get a good deal on it? You really can't afford donating that much money to phone and insurance companies. I saved 1000 a year by switching insurance companies after i found out people around here were spending much less on home and contents than me. I got 3 quotes and hubby spent 15 minutes on the phone. I am sure you can do the same.

[Digital Dogma]

To hell with your grandfathered plans, clinging to them is doing huge damage to your finances. None of your excuses are valid, and those attempts to justify spending $3,000/year on _phones_ is exactly the kind of thinking that you MUST change if you ever want to fix your financial life. Until you make peace with that, you will never, ever succeed.

This a thousand times, that 3k cellphone plan may seem like a rare item you need to hoard, but resist the urge to look at the value of your cellphone provider as anything more than what it is - a utility. Its not an all you can eat buffet, its a utility, and you're over-paying for it.

[Mariposa]

OP: don't get scared away by the forum pile-up.

The purpose of tracking your purchases is not just to gather data; it's about self-examination and changing your mentality from one of scarcity/entitlement to plenitude/gratitude.

Agree with the people who said notebook and pen. The act of writing down each and every purchase will slow you down and make you think about it. Tracking as meditation.

If you try to figure out Mint or YNAB, you run the risk of putting the whole thing off / making more excuses.

When you no longer think of all the tchotchkes you buy as necessities, but as the ridiculous luxuries that they are, and mostly useless, it's not even much of a sacrifice to cut your spending.

[Dexterous]

I want everything to happen right now, and when it doesn't, I lose interest.

You can begin/do a lot of things now:

1) Get cheaper cell phone service
2) Stop buying stuff you don't need
3) Save a thousand or two dollars AND DON'T SPEND IT UNLESS IT'S AN ABSOLUTE EMERGENCY
4) Destroy your credit/store cards once step 3 is done (and don't buy anything on these in the meantime unless it's critical to your life/job)
5) Payoff the maximum possible on your credit/store cards until gone... login often to take action and see your progress!
6) Payoff the maximum possible on your lower interest rate loans until gone

Those steps alone will get you out of this mess and place you on a good path.  To get you on a great path, you could consider more drastic changes such as stopping your side gig and selling that equipment (assuming it's not making you much money and is just costing you a lot of stress/time), changing to a cheaper house and closer to work, etc.

Maybe respond back this week and show some of the actions you took!?  We want to see some action instead of talk.  You owe it to yourself, family, and us now!  I'd be thrilled to see something as simple as a one-liner from you stating, "Destroyed Kohl's credit card!", "Swapped cell service to X, saving $X per month from previous bill", "reduced electric bill $50 by doing X", or anything else you think is relevant.

[DBMX1958]

I really do want to get us out of this mess. I am here for the advice, even if you happen to just be repeating yourself.

I did sign up for mint, but most of it is not functioning as it should due to us changing login information at some places and other stuff. I will get that straightened out.

One of the things that gets me every time with this is the spending tracking. I have admitted before that I have yet to be successful with a budget. Part of the reason for that is not having adequate information from the start. Every time I say we will commit to a budget, I realize we have no spending data and we can't do anything for at least a month, if not two. That is the way that I get discouraged. I told my wife last night, this wouldn't be such a hassle if we didn't have so much to keep track of. If we didn't spend so much, it would not be a problem.

The 11k is going somewhere. We do eat out occasionaly,. Most of the other things we buy don't cost that much, if we even do buy them. Most purchases of any sort go on the cc, simply because we don't have enough money otherwise.

I do all of the vehicle maintenance, so the only real cost there is parts and supplies (like oil and filter for oil changes).

What are some tips on starting the spending tracking, and how do I keep at it so that we have accurate records? My wife suggested tracking spending until January, and then getting started then. I am okay with this, but I wonder if we will just get lost in the fray again while two months passes.

That is one of my worst personal traits: no patience. I want everything to happen right now, and when it doesn't, I lose interest.

All I read here are excuses. Don't track your expenses, your spending is getting you in trouble. Create a budget TODAY and allocate EVERY DOLLAR of income, EVERY DOLLAR to your budget.

You need to see results? Take your smallest bill and pay it off, then the next smallest, regardless of interest rates if you need those little victories to stay motivated.

My wife was very reluctant to start a budget but once we did there was noticeable improvement in our savings. Allocate some monies for fun, you can do this if you start, but you have to start.

Good luck, quit whining and get going!!!!!!!

[Villanelle]

It's very, very simple.  Either start writing down every expense *today*, or be even worse off in a year than you are now.  Realistically, those are probably your only two options.  Pick one, and proceed. 

Losing interest isn't an option, because someday, this will come down to not being able to pay for medical care your kid needs, or having to work until you die (talk about needing patience) or losing your home.  Sorry, but you don't get to be impatient about this stuff.  Time to adult. 

I know it's hard to make a budget when you currently have no idea where your money is going.  I understand that.  Perhaps a compromise could be give yourselves each $100/mo of money for non-necessities.  Define what those are so you can't play games with yourselves.  Eating out, clothing, stuff for the house that doesn't replace a broken and necessary item, hair cuts (or any hair cut over $20 if you aren't willing to DIY), etc. Then give yourselves a small Christmas present budget, if you must.  Beyond that, just track.  Do this for 3 months, then use your numbers to create a budget with all categories.  Until then, just not spending unnecessary money will be fine.Then, when you have the full picture, you can use that to look for addition areas to cut, and to make projections about your current needs and future goals and outlooks.

And use those 3 months (or better yet, the next 3 days) to decrease the bills for necessities.  Cut the cable, cancel the kids insurance (and make sure you and the wife only have term policies for amounts that actually make sense), downgrade the cell phone plan.

So, today's assignment:
1) start tracking today--just a pen and paper so you have no excuses.
2) allocate a small amount for non-necessary spending, and stick to that
3) cut the low-hanging fruit in your budget--cell, cable, kids' insurance, and anything else you can find

Now go! Do!

[alsoknownasDean]

Why on earth are you spending $250 a month on electricity? Isn't electricity dirt cheap in AL?

Ditto gas.

Fix your cellphone. It's like a bleeding wound with cash flowing out. You don't need unlimited data, especially when you have a connection at home. Replace that first thing tomorrow morning.

How much has your side business made you in the last year?

Why are you paying $1600pa on insurance on two cars of that age?

Would you consolidate your debts so you don't have so many credit cards?

You're making reasonably good money in a LCOL area. It should be trivial for you to cut your expenses to $40-45K all inclusive. That should leave $15000 a year for saving and eliminating debts. A bit more work and your spending could be bought down to your income only.

By the way, what kind of house does $200K buy in Alabama?

EDITED: To avoid falling foul of rule 1 :)

[MrsDinero]

Today is November 1.  Start tracking all expenses OP.

If it helps report back here daily on what you spend.

[Lanthiriel]

I know we don't like to send people to Dave Ramsey around here, but OP, you might want to go pick up Total Money Makeover from the library and start listening to his podcast. MMM isn't really money 101, but DR is.

[taking fire]

I truly apologize for being aao lethargic with replies. How to put this simply? I used to have a job where phone usage was no big deal. I had access to it at pretty much any time. Doing things like activity on this board was nothing. Now, I don't have that luxury. I have to find the time to get back to you guys.

A couple things.

The house power bill at $250 a month - this is a high figure for budgeting purposes. It may hit that twice a year during the coldest and hottest months. Usually it hovers around $180-$200. That extra money would be surplus if the budget actually existed and functioned like it should.

As far as credit cards - I understand cutting them up. But the reason I have kept them all this time is because of the quick access to a lot of money. In a sense, they are emergency funds.

Also, my cc is attached to my PayPal, which is attached to the business. I also use a cc or PayPal for eBay and amazon purchases. I know that any of these situations can just be linked to my bank account to avoid having the cc, but I have always used the cc because of the protections. I used to sell a lot on eBay, and still do occasionally, but most of the things I had that were worth selling are all sold. Maybe that will help with some of the justification (but probably not, lol).

Until an emergency fund is established, I can't see cutting the cards up. They are literally our only source of emergency cash. I mean what other means do we have until we get a cash fund saved up? Another bank loan that will take a week to push through if needed?

My wife is on board. She is not the problem here. It is me. My wife spends hardly any money. She buys neccesities that the kids need; rarely anything for herself. I am the one with the spending problem. Last night she again expressed her frustration with trying to get back on track, and me always coming up with something else I "need." So you should be able to see where we are.

My side businesses is something I have been doing for some time. It has the ability to make good money, possibly even make me a living. It does require time though, which I have already stated I don't have a lot of. If you need details, I'd be happy to discuss it in a pm.

I can also explain more about how I used 30GB of data in a month. I know that seems far fetched but there is a good reason.

[taking fire]

I know we don't like to send people to Dave Ramsey around here, but OP, you might want to go pick up Total Money Makeover from the library and start listening to his podcast. MMM isn't really money 101, but DR is.

I actually have and have read two of his books.

[Miss Piggy]

I know we don't like to send people to Dave Ramsey around here, but OP, you might want to go pick up Total Money Makeover from the library and start listening to his podcast. MMM isn't really money 101, but DR is.

I actually have and have read two of his books.

Then you should have a pretty good idea of what you need to do. I think your issue is motivation.

[taking fire]

As far as fuel:

I put about $25 in the little fuel efficient vehicle about every seven days. It gets close to 30 mpg on non ethanol.

My wife puts about $30 in around once a week. Her car might get between 22-24 mpg.

I drive 50 miles round trip for work. My wife drives about 35 round trip.

$220 a month is about average. I do occasionally put gas in my older big truck. I need to haul things and pull trailers so I can't really just get rid of it. If I did, I bet I'd have to borrow a truck next week.

[JLee]

I truly apologize for being aao lethargic with replies. How to put this simply? I used to have a job where phone usage was no big deal. I had access to it at pretty much any time. Doing things like activity on this board was nothing. Now, I don't have that luxury. I have to find the time to get back to you guys.

A couple things.

The house power bill at $250 a month - this is a high figure for budgeting purposes. It may hit that twice a year during the coldest and hottest months. Usually it hovers around $180-$200. That extra money would be surplus if the budget actually existed and functioned like it should.

As far as credit cards - I understand cutting them up. But the reason I have kept them all this time is because of the quick access to a lot of money. In a sense, they are emergency funds.

Also, my cc is attached to my PayPal, which is attached to the business. I also use a cc or PayPal for eBay and amazon purchases. I know that any of these situations can just be linked to my bank account to avoid having the cc, but I have always used the cc because of the protections. I used to sell a lot on eBay, and still do occasionally, but most of the things I had that were worth selling are all sold. Maybe that will help with some of the justification (but probably not, lol).

Until an emergency fund is established, I can't see cutting the cards up. They are literally our only source of emergency cash. I mean what other means do we have until we get a cash fund saved up? Another bank loan that will take a week to push through if needed?

My wife is on board. She is not the problem here. It is me. My wife spends hardly any money. She buys neccesities that the kids need; rarely anything for herself. I am the one with the spending problem. Last night she again expressed her frustration with trying to get back on track, and me always coming up with something else I "need." So you should be able to see where we are.

My side businesses is something I have been doing for some time. It has the ability to make good money, possibly even make me a living. It does require time though, which I have already stated I don't have a lot of. If you need details, I'd be happy to discuss it in a pm.

I can also explain more about how I used 30GB of data in a month. I know that seems far fetched but there is a good reason.

That is clearly a problem for you.

[former player]

Put your wife in charge of all the money, then.  She can give you an allowance for gas and some monthly mad money, and anything else you make a written business case to her.

Also, if use are using so much data and you are regularly browsing ebay, amazon and so on, you could perhaps think of giving up your smart phone and going for a dumb phone.  It would probably reveal to you that you have an addiction issue there, and also give you time to work on your side-hustle if you weren't spending hours a day on your phone.

[snacky]

As far as fuel:

I put about $25 in the little fuel efficient vehicle about every seven days. It gets close to 30 mpg on non ethanol.

My wife puts about $30 in around once a week. Her car might get between 22-24 mpg.

I drive 50 miles round trip for work. My wife drives about 35 round trip.

$220 a month is about average. I do occasionally put gas in my older big truck. I need to haul things and pull trailers so I can't really just get rid of it. If I did, I bet I'd have to borrow a truck next week.

So borrow a truck next week. I don't see a problem. The money from selling your truck could help you out of this hole.

Each suggestion made has resulted in a lot of reasons why change is impossible. If you really can't change a thing then things will continue to get worse. If you want to see a change, make a change.

[FrugalFan]

This is the most frustrating thread I have ever read! Stop making excuses and cut just one of your expenses right now! Tons of great suggestions above. Also, show this thread to your wife. If you are the problem, maybe she can help you fix it. I'm on the side of using Mint because everything is automatic and you will have several months of data once you spend 5 minutes updating your account logins.

[Slee_stack]

I may subscribe to this thread just to read the 'Excuse of the Day'.

Its fascinating to witness someone willfully ignore reality.


Not that the OP will actually listen, but here's an idea:

Instead of coming up with a reason why you CAN'T do something, come up with reasons why you CAN.

[Warlord1986]

This is one of those moments where I honestly wonder if a poster is trolling. If so, kudos. You've riled a bunch of people. If not, and you are as pathetic as your posts make you out to be...uh...you have problems. And you will continue to have problems in the future. Good luck with that.

[MrsDinero]

The house power bill at $250 a month - this is a high figure for budgeting purposes. It may hit that twice a year during the coldest and hottest months. Usually it hovers around $180-$200. That extra money would be surplus if the budget actually existed and functioned like it should.

Our house is like this too.  When we first started budgeting we used averages each month as our target figure. 

As far as credit cards - I understand cutting them up. But the reason I have kept them all this time is because of the quick access to a lot of money. In a sense, they are emergency funds.

There is nothing wrong with this.  There are several threads on here that debated using CC for emergencies vs a cash savings account.

The problem is the frequencies of your emergencies.  If you are using the credit cards more than once or twice a year for a TRUE emergency (ER visit, car breaking down and needing a tow, hot water heater blew), then either you have really bad luck or you are using them as an income extension.

By income extension I mean, buying a WANT that you don't have the cash (or budget for).

Also, my cc is attached to my PayPal, which is attached to the business. I also use a cc or PayPal for eBay and amazon purchases. I know that any of these situations can just be linked to my bank account to avoid having the cc, but I have always used the cc because of the protections. I used to sell a lot on eBay, and still do occasionally, but most of the things I had that were worth selling are all sold. Maybe that will help with some of the justification (but probably not, lol).

I do this too, except I only use ONE credit card.  I pay off this credit card every month, and everything that is purchased is in my budget.

Until an emergency fund is established, I can't see cutting the cards up. They are literally our only source of emergency cash. I mean what other means do we have until we get a cash fund saved up? Another bank loan that will take a week to push through if needed?

you don't have to cut them up, you just have to stop using them.

My wife is on board. She is not the problem here. It is me. My wife spends hardly any money. She buys neccesities that the kids need; rarely anything for herself. I am the one with the spending problem. Last night she again expressed her frustration with trying to get back on track, and me always coming up with something else I "need." So you should be able to see where we are.

Let her be in charge of the finances.  Ask her to sign up for an MMM account.

My side businesses is something I have been doing for some time. It has the ability to make good money, possibly even make me a living. It does require time though, which I have already stated I don't have a lot of. If you need details, I'd be happy to discuss it in a pm.

You and your wife have to decide which is more important then you working on making your side business successful or time with your family.  It sounds like you can one or the other but not both.

I can also explain more about how I used 30GB of data in a month. I know that seems far fetched but there is a good reason.

I want to know.  I work remotely in IT so I'm on my phone constantly, downloading, conference calls, testing new software, etc.  I'm on Facebook and Instagram several times a day.  I also stream TV/movies everyday and I still don't hit 30GB of data per month. 

OP you're really good at making excuses for reason why everything is impossible or an absolute necessity.  Making change is hard.  It is not something you do one and you're done.  It takes hard work every day and lots of practice until you get it right. 

As much advice as we can give you, you are the one who has to decide to to take it or not.  In the time as you have spent writing excuses on why you cannot take the advice, you could have:
-  taken all credit cards out of your wallet
- written up a budget
- tracked today's expenses
- targeted 1 or 2 items to trim or cut

I can say that if you pop up again in 1 year with the exact same problem, most people here will probably just ignore you. 

[onehair]

OP I used to be you.  My uncle is still you.  But you can do it if you're not trolling.  I can't offer any more suggestions than the good people issuing facepunches have already.  And I make a lot less with a not so DH completely not on board with the MMM philosophy.  Or you'll be forced to once your errors catch up with you like mine did in 2000.  My uncle never did learn.

[Cycling Stache]

@taking fire, glad to see you responding. 

I'm not going to add to the pile on, but wanted to note how easy it often is to see things from an outsider perspective versus when it's your life.  The reason for the pile on is that the advice seems incredibly obvious from a detached, outsider perspective.  Of course it feels different when it's your life.  But note that dynamic when considering the advice--people are not repeating themselves because they don't get it; they're repeating themselves because the advice seems easy and straightforward to someone not emotionally invested with what's going on.

These are relatively short-term problems, but you'll have to start making the changes and measure them in incremental improvements.  For the people who have been through this already, they've seen the pay off in terms of snowballing the elimination of debt or the increase in assets, and that's why patience seems like a non-issue to them.  The changes will pay off in a big way going forward, and yes, it will take a little time, but it's so worth it that it's not even worth considering the possibility of not doing it.

Good luck!

[snogirl]

EBay & Amazon purchases?? For what? Curious.
Did you get your pen & paper out yet?
OP I don't want to sound harsh but seriously I've been in your shoes. I made excellent money. Excellent! My debt & nonchalant finance accounting stunk. My spending never tracked. No budget. No savings. I was a MASTER of excuses & justifications. In 2014 I hit my bottom & took small, daily steps to change. Some were drastic! But guess what? Today Debt free! Money in Bank & investments! Just quit my job on Friday to start a business! It feels awesome! This is my second day of FIRE but guess what? It takes work. It takes NO EXCUSES. And it sucks at times. But it is totally worth it.
If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you always got. TRUTH.
 Good luck.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[NESailor]

This thread literally hurts my head.

I had less income than you when my wife and I started out and somehow still saved a bundle (living in an expensive city in New England).

Expense tracking is CAKE.  Mint.com setup is maybe a few hours to categorize everything from the last 3 months...but the software "learns" what certain vendors are for and ongoing maintenance is minimal.  Especially if you cut down on spending.  I may have 1 or 2 uncategorized expenses every 3 months - and I get an alert when that happens.

Anyway.  Good luck, seems that you'll need it.  You have plenty of income to be rich if you make the effort to become so.