Author Topic: Stay at home mom/dad "RETIRED" when there are young children in the home?  (Read 7843 times)

Michread

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When I quit my job in 1996, I had a 2 yr. old and a baby on the way.  My boss told everyone I was "retiring".  I did and do NOT consider a stay at home parent of young children retired!  Raising and taking care of family and home is hard work.

IF BOTH parents do not work for money then I think of that as retirement because they (I assume) are splitting the family and home responsibilities.

What do you think - one stay at home parent retired or not?

Cinder

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http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/13/mr-money-mustache-vs-the-internet-retirement-police/

The definition of retirement varies wildly depending on several factors, and MMM frequently talks about the Internet Retirement Police (IRP). 

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The “internet retirement police” (IRP), which you’ll meet in various online forums, have established five main directives:

In principle you can only participate in certain pre-approved retirement activities such as beach-sitting, staring out the window, and receiving visits from your grandchildren.

Traveling is also okay, as is eating “delicious food”, just make sure you don’t cook it yourself, see below. Think twice before doing anything that’s not on this list! The IRP is watching you.

The IRP does grant one exemption should you become bored with the activities above. You can work for a nonprofit organization. Make sure you’re not getting paid though even if you have to plead your case with the CEO to put in special exemptions. Accepting money obviously means you didn’t do your retirement-math and that you ran out of money a couple of years after retiring. After all, what other obvious explanation could there be? (Besides the obvious ones) If you can’t find a way to work without pay, it’s best to head back to the beach towel and sit on that.

Just to be clear: You’re most definitely NOT allowed to be a kayak-instructor in your retirement. While it may sound like a fun job that you picked yourself even if you didn’t have to, the keyword is J-O-B. You can, however, spend a Saturday morning dressed up as an elephant handing out fliers and free lemonade at the entrance. And if you really must instruct in kayaking, please avoid doing something more engaging than blogging about kayaks (and if you do blog, try not to make the blog popular… because … then the blog would be a job!).

Next, I feel like I should warn MMM readers lest they stumble into the retirement pitfall of saving money by living frugally. You can’t do that! According to the IRP saving money IS a full time job and—try to follow this—since you can’t have a job and be retired, you are not allowed to save money in retirement. You see, if you save money by doing your own cooking, you’re now WORKING as a cook, thus no longer retired.

The IRP would like you to take this to its extreme logical conclusions, e.g. you’re working as a money manager if you handle your own investments, you’re working as a gardener if you mow your own lawn, you’re working as a chauffeur if you don’t hire a driver, you’re a pro-blogger if you have a blog, and so on.

Disclaimer: All examples are taken from real world cases as presented to me by the IRP. They’re not kidding!

Lans Holman

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If you wanted to call yourself retired in this situation I think that would be just fine.  If your ex-boss calls you retired and you don't see it that way, that's pretty obnoxious.  But he's not your boss anymore, so who cares?  Some people deserve to be ignored. 

Michread

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If you wanted to call yourself retired in this situation I think that would be just fine.  If your ex-boss calls you retired and you don't see it that way, that's pretty obnoxious.  But he's not your boss anymore, so who cares?  Some people deserve to be ignored.

Thanks for your reply.

I don't need to work for money but I STILL don't consider myself retired.  Maybe because I have a problem with seeing myself as "retired".  Retired means something else to me. 

I'm trying to find out what most people view as "retired".  In the end it doesn't matter to me, but I'm curious.  Does FI mean retired?  I think not. It means just that FREE to retire if you wish but not retired.



 

RootofGood

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I'm in roughly that exact position you were in back in 1996.  Except my little one is 1.5 years old (and we have 2 elementary school age kids).  We are FI, and I don't plan on working again.  Mrs. RootofGood is still working for now (maybe another year or two).

I call myself retired, since neither one of us has to work anymore and I just happened to stop working first.  I don't take offense if someone says "you aren't retired because your wife is still working".  The term "retired" is just semantics - a mental shortcut to say "I'm FI, don't intend to work any more, and I'm not working right now". 

I'm totally content to be called a stay at home dad for the next 17 years or so years until Mr RootofGood Jr. is out of high school.

NumberJohnny5

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To me, retired = not working, and don't need to work. If you're not working but you need to work for money...you're unemployed. If you're working but don't need the money, you're not retired. It's possible to retire for a bit, come out of retirement to do something that interests you, retire again, etc.

MMM wishes to redefine the definition of retirement. I disagree, I don't think we need to redefine the definition of retirement; though a whole new word to describe his version of retirement would be fine. It's just semantics though, I'm not going to argue until I'm blue in the face that he's wrong (plus I realize that the meaning of words can change over time).

Anyways....

Are you financially independent? If so, I wouldn't have a problem if you called yourself retired. You're retired from working a regular 9-5 job for a paycheck. Perhaps a bit of wordplay, instead of saying retired, you could say "I'm retired from ACME corporation, so I can be a stay at home parent to my wonderful kid(s)." That should get the point across clearly.

If you're not financially independent, I wouldn't say you're retired, even if you're not planning on going back to a paying job. Yes, it's possible for your spouse to still be working and for you to be retired...but the key (for me) is that your spouse does not HAVE to work; if he/she chooses to, but you are both FI without ever working again...then whoever isn't working can claim to be retired.

That's just me. You'll find many varying definitions of retirement, from "still working to fund his lifestyle" to "bunch of lazy geezers" and all points in between.

Michread

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I call myself retired, since neither one of us has to work anymore and I just happened to stop working first.  I don't take offense if someone says "you aren't retired because your wife is still working".  The term "retired" is just semantics - a mental shortcut to say "I'm FI, don't intend to work any more, and I'm not working right now". 

I'm totally content to be called a stay at home dad for the next 17 years or so years until Mr RootofGood Jr. is out of high school.

I like your attitude! 

I wish I could have been content with being called a "housewife" but that never did sit well with me and still doesn't.  I do prefer "stay at home mom/dad". 

Times have changed and it's again becoming more acceptable to stay home with the kids whether it's the mom or dad.  But I bet it's harder still for the dad to tell people that's what he does.   


Michread

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To me, retired = not working, and don't need to work. If you're not working but you need to work for money...you're unemployed. If you're working but don't need the money, you're not retired. It's possible to retire for a bit, come out of retirement to do something that interests you, retire again, etc.

MMM wishes to redefine the definition of retirement. I disagree, I don't think we need to redefine the definition of retirement; though a whole new word to describe his version of retirement would be fine. It's just semantics though, I'm not going to argue until I'm blue in the face that he's wrong (plus I realize that the meaning of words can change over time).

Anyways....

Are you financially independent? If so, I wouldn't have a problem if you called yourself retired. You're retired from working a regular 9-5 job for a paycheck. Perhaps a bit of wordplay, instead of saying retired, you could say "I'm retired from ACME corporation, so I can be a stay at home parent to my wonderful kid(s)." That should get the point across clearly.

If you're not financially independent, I wouldn't say you're retired, even if you're not planning on going back to a paying job. Yes, it's possible for your spouse to still be working and for you to be retired...but the key (for me) is that your spouse does not HAVE to work; if he/she chooses to, but you are both FI without ever working again...then whoever isn't working can claim to be retired.

That's just me. You'll find many varying definitions of retirement, from "still working to fund his lifestyle" to "bunch of lazy geezers" and all points in between.

I agree with you.  It's interesting hearing what other people think incl. MMM.

trombonedadio

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Maybe the best definition (except for tax purposes!) is "self-employed." You make your own decisions about what "work" you are going to do today - and it may not necessarily matter if you are paid for it or not by somebody else. We all sleep roughly 1/3 of the day, then spend an hour or two eating and taking care of other personal needs, then the rest of the day - maybe 14 to 16 hours - is spent doing other stuff. Some of that stuff has a financial impact on us and some of it doesn't, but really, I am not going to stress about how people define what I do. After all, I am more than just a word!

RootofGood

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I like your attitude! 

I wish I could have been content with being called a "housewife" but that never did sit well with me and still doesn't.  I do prefer "stay at home mom/dad". 

Times have changed and it's again becoming more acceptable to stay home with the kids whether it's the mom or dad.  But I bet it's harder still for the dad to tell people that's what he does.   

A few things that help:
  • Being FI with a seven figure portfolio
  • Generally not giving a crap
  • spending time with quality people who "get it" instead of the general asshattery of the at large population

Zoe

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This is a good question. I am considering quitting my job in the next several months (as long as a few things work out) to stay home with my 2 year old. We would get by just fine on my husband's income (not quite maxing out our Roth's, but close) so we don't "need" my income to survive. It's nice to have the extra to do other things with, but by no means do we actually need it. I wonder if I will call my self retired or..? I will do other things that could potentially bring in some money, and if it grew to a home business, that would be fine, but it's not the goal (right now at least).

I say, call it whatever you want :)

CarlosR

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I'm planning on retiring at the end of this year.  My wife will continue to work because she loves her job.  We have a 6 year old and twins that are in college. 

I don't think I'll have an issues saying I'm a retired and am now a stay at home dad, but I'll wait and see what answer I come up with when asked.

@RootofGood - I'm a bit older than you are, but have enjoyed your FIRE story and am looking forward my my new phase of life.

RootofGood

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I'm planning on retiring at the end of this year.  My wife will continue to work because she loves her job.  We have a 6 year old and twins that are in college. 

I don't think I'll have an issues saying I'm a retired and am now a stay at home dad, but I'll wait and see what answer I come up with when asked.

@RootofGood - I'm a bit older than you are, but have enjoyed your FIRE story and am looking forward my my new phase of life.

I'm glad you enjoyed my story!  I am sure you will either enjoy FIRE or decide having freedom all day really does suck and go back to work.  I'll hope for the former. 


Mrs.FamilyFinances

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I tend to say I'm retired when I know it will ruffle some feathers. I've been amazed at what a hot button word it is. For the record, I stay home with the kids, but don't anticipate returning to a traditional job at any point.

jstone2032

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This is a subject I've thought about too, what to say that "I do" once I "drop out" of the BS construct that American life has become.  I'm planning to cut the chord before too very long (a couple years, I'm hoping).  I have a 4 year old, and an 8 year old, and have done well in the earning/saving department for some time (currently 39), but still trying to work through the math of what it will take to be a "stay at home dad"...how much $ is enough $, that sort of thing.  I have a collective net worth (with wife) of about 1.2 million.  My wife and I are considering a move to a small town in NC, and getting away from the high costs of DC.  Sell our house here, and buy a house in cash to remove (forever) our largest expense.  The hardest part of this whole quest is undoing the years of social conditioning on what you're supposed to do -- go to school, get a job, buy crap, work till your almost dead, retire, die.  I just can't accept that, and I'm working to convince my (very frugal) wife that we need to live a different way.