Author Topic: Sportswagons for Mustachians...  (Read 2602 times)

Mr-FancyPants

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Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« on: July 16, 2017, 09:01:32 AM »
So - a little about me - I'm a 30-something Mustachian with a great job that I love, savings, zero-commute, and a bit of a lead foot.

After my last car died, I ended up with the balance of a three-year lease on a hybrid Subaru XV (35K on it w/ one year to go-the previous owner did not drive much).  In a year the Subaru will cost me about $16k to buy-out - its a great car for now, but I'm tempted by something sportier & I am worried about long-term maintenance on the battery ect. 

Most days I can walk to the office so during the week the XV gets used for grocery runs, ect (despite living downtown, my city on a whole is quite suburban & the good grocery stores are a bit too far to bike after work).

On weekends I climb, ski and bike, and it's not unusual for me to put 800+km on in a weekend, I also need a vehicle that's easy to load, carries two bikes & stores them securely inside (weeknights I sometimes go for a quick 20km MTB ride), and drives well onroad, is sporty yet easy to drive on the highways, drives well on rough gravel roads, and handles well in the winter.   
The XV does all of this well, but I wonder if a slightly bigger car might not be a bit more convenient.

Thus far I'm realising that I'm most likely looking for a sporty waggon of some kind - Audi A4 Allroad (just a really nice car), 3.6L Subaru Outback (nice to drive, huge cargo room - not that sporty), Volvo V60 (the Polestar was a fun test drive lol), VW All track (awesome to drive), are all what I'm seeing on dealers lots. 

That said - I'm wondering what Mustachians would suggest (new, coming off-lease and used)??

My priorities for a Waggon are:
  • Safety - IHS Top pic, ect
  • Usability - lots of spaces for kyacks, bikes, camping equipment, and tools
  • Reliability - I'm going to buy a car that I love and keep it for a long time, maintenance is a concern
  • Driveability - Long road-trips after work on a Friday night, and coming back Sunday after a long day of biking; also dealing with poor weather and we are in the snowbelt
  • Sportieness - I like driving a sporty car, SUV's always seem uninspired to me
  • It's nice to drive a nice car, I used to rent a lot for work and I found that people always seemed to give me more room on the roads and were less aggressive when I was driving a nicer car than when I was driving more of a mid-low end vehicle YMMV

For me the driving can be part of the fun, and I'm looking for something good and reliable for the next 10+ yrs, and that might eventually take a few kids in the back too.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 09:20:14 AM by Mr-FancyPants »

GoCubsGo

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 02:26:23 PM »
I'll weigh in on the A4.  I don't have an Allroad but I've owned multiple Audi's and I prefer my A4 to to the larger A6.  The allroad is a great looking car and there's not a ton out there so you won't see it all over the place (if that matters).  The current A4 platform is quite good in my opinion, sufficiently sporty but very solid.  It's incredible in poor weather too. 

My advice is to find one a year or so old and buy it Audi certified.  That gives you 2 more years of bumper to bumper warranty.  Buying a certified car will cost a bit more, but the fact that you are buying it slightly used you still come out way ahead due to the first owner's depreciation. They used to include 4 years of maintenance as well.   The downside to Audi is after they are out of warranty little items can eat you alive (this scenario would give you 5 years without worrying about repairs).  I'm not sure it'd come out ahead if you kept 10 years.  VW alltrack looks cool too, but I have no experience with them.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 02:28:07 PM by GoCubsGo »

Lepetitange3

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 07:04:22 PM »
The answer is a mustachian pays all cash for his vehicle and drives it until it dies a sad,sad death 10-20 years later.

TheAnonOne

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 08:41:37 PM »
The answer is a mustachian pays all cash for his vehicle and drives it until it dies a sad,sad death 10-20 years later.

^Truth, BUT...

MMM is really about maximizing happiness per dollar. Some people might replace cars more often, be higher in the income range so it's still affordable, and generally have a love for cars.

Second BUT...

You should really evaluate if you get THAT much happiness out of it. I do some Autocross and generally do meetups and events. These are actually fun activities that I couldn't do otherwise. I wouldn't own my sports-car/bike if I did none of these.

humbleMouse

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2017, 10:59:06 PM »
Allroad's have a lot of maintenance issue's if they haven't been serviced to dealer spec. They are a sweet car though, just know that owning an audi will cost you money.

I would suggest considering a saab wagon.  They are very comfortable and quick with the turbo they have.  Two toned leather seats and many are on craigslist for under 5k with low miles. 

Subarus are good too, if you want something sporty you could get a faster used subaru and keep up the maintenance and they hold their value well.

Anyway, good luck.  I would probably get a fast subaru if I were you.
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SnackDog

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 02:34:48 AM »
If by sporty you mean RWD with a manual transmission and by reliable you mean Japanese, your options are severely limited. In fact, I can't think of any.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 02:39:03 AM by SnackDog »
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gooki

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 03:20:29 AM »
Give the Mazda 6 wagon a look.

Some of the best suspension on a front wheel drive. Truely enjoyable to drive (I never thought I'd like a fwd car coming from owning everal Nissan Silvia's and a BMW 5 series). I prefer it to my Subaru Impreza AWD.

Good boot space, good front/rear seat space, factory roof rails, factory tow bar makes for a versatile vehicle. I can drive right into my standard height garage with the double kayak on the roof, and just lift it straight up into its hoist. Something I couldn't do with an SUV.

Comfortable seats. Omfg there good, comparable to the BMW5.

Reliable if maintained. My Mazda 6 is 13 years old now with 387,000 km and still feels tight.

Cheap to buy and service, many shared parts with Ford, not a luxury vehicle so doesn't hold a premium on the second hand market. Insurance is cheap too.

The 2.4 manual is plenty of power for me, but can be found in turbo AWD spec depending on market (area).
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 03:30:26 AM by gooki »
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sequoia

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 06:58:05 AM »
So - a little about me - I'm a 30-something Mustachian with a great job that I love, savings, zero-commute, and a bit of a lead foot.

After my last car died, I ended up with the balance of a three-year lease on a hybrid Subaru XV (35K on it w/ one year to go-the previous owner did not drive much).  In a year the Subaru will cost me about $16k to buy-out - its a great car for now, but I'm tempted by something sportier & I am worried about long-term maintenance on the battery ect. 

Most days I can walk to the office so during the week the XV gets used for grocery runs, ect (despite living downtown, my city on a whole is quite suburban & the good grocery stores are a bit too far to bike after work).

On weekends I climb, ski and bike, and it's not unusual for me to put 800+km on in a weekend, I also need a vehicle that's easy to load, carries two bikes & stores them securely inside (weeknights I sometimes go for a quick 20km MTB ride), and drives well onroad, is sporty yet easy to drive on the highways, drives well on rough gravel roads, and handles well in the winter.   
The XV does all of this well, but I wonder if a slightly bigger car might not be a bit more convenient.

Thus far I'm realising that I'm most likely looking for a sporty waggon of some kind - Audi A4 Allroad (just a really nice car), 3.6L Subaru Outback (nice to drive, huge cargo room - not that sporty), Volvo V60 (the Polestar was a fun test drive lol), VW All track (awesome to drive), are all what I'm seeing on dealers lots. 

That said - I'm wondering what Mustachians would suggest (new, coming off-lease and used)??

My priorities for a Waggon are:
  • Safety - IHS Top pic, ect
  • Usability - lots of spaces for kyacks, bikes, camping equipment, and tools
  • Reliability - I'm going to buy a car that I love and keep it for a long time, maintenance is a concern
  • Driveability - Long road-trips after work on a Friday night, and coming back Sunday after a long day of biking; also dealing with poor weather and we are in the snowbelt
  • Sportieness - I like driving a sporty car, SUV's always seem uninspired to me
  • It's nice to drive a nice car, I used to rent a lot for work and I found that people always seemed to give me more room on the roads and were less aggressive when I was driving a nicer car than when I was driving more of a mid-low end vehicle YMMV

For me the driving can be part of the fun, and I'm looking for something good and reliable for the next 10+ yrs, and that might eventually take a few kids in the back too.

I would not get a European car just because I think the maintenance is costly, so Subaru gets my vote. Having said that, you mentioned  "drives well on rough gravel roads", this is what SUV with high ground clearance and fat tires are for. Gravel will destroy the thinner tires and the wheels on sporty cars, especially if you drive it every weekend.



Dave1442397

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 07:14:49 AM »
The new Volvo V90 is nice, although not the most fun to drive, from what I've read.

The VW Golf SportWagen is nice, but who knows about reliability.

I have a 2010 CTS Wagon, and I can throw my road bike in there without taking off the front wheel. Reliability has been ok, but reading the Cadillac forums always has me wondering when it's going to collapse into a pile of parts in my garage :)


sequoia

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 07:36:34 AM »
The answer is a mustachian pays all cash for his vehicle and drives it until it dies a sad,sad death 10-20 years later.

^Truth, BUT...

MMM is really about maximizing happiness per dollar. Some people might replace cars more often, be higher in the income range so it's still affordable, and generally have a love for cars.


Another vote for this... I am all for saving money, but you gotta have some fun too.

rothwem

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 08:11:12 AM »
Damn, so you guys are paying $30k+ in cash for these cars? 

WYOGO

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 08:41:53 AM »
I would not limit your search to a "wagon" as the American distaste for premium long roofs mean more limited choices with respect to packages, power options and such. I would choose a FWD, four door GTI. It has grown slightly, provides a ton of utility, sastifactory fuel economy and has a industry leading interior with  one of the most rewarding drives at this price point. This vehicle is bigger than it looks on the exterior. The boot is wider than an Allroad and it's premium quality will always remind you that this vehicle is literally one of those purchases that sits solidly in the value/premium sweet spot. I would grab it in a manual for the rewarding driving experience and slightly less routine maintenance in addition to lower costs. Discussions of reliability with Europen cars is a bit sensationalized. You have more to maintain because you are buying more. If you don't care about cars get a base Corolla or Civic and the appliance will be a bit less buggy.

I make and have enough money that I choose to operate a vehicle that provides a rewarding driving experience in addition to class leading utility and practicality.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 08:44:06 AM by WYOGO »

mm1970

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2017, 09:25:00 AM »
Damn, so you guys are paying $30k+ in cash for these cars?
we pay cash for our cars.

But we drive smaller cars (<$20k)

gooki

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 04:43:08 PM »
Damn, so you guys are paying $30k+ in cash for these cars?

Who said anything about buying new. Let someone else pay the depreciation and pickup for for peanuts. In my case $3,000 NZD (equivalent to $2,000 USD).
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Mr-FancyPants

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2017, 07:07:52 PM »
Thanks guys that's a great list, (I am looking for a 4x4 car too), to add to it sounds like I should also be considering:
  • Used Saabs
  • Older longer VW GTI
  • CTS Wagon
  • used sportier Subaru - i.e Legacy Wagon, this may be where I land
  • Mazda 6 Wagon

Any other thoughts on that sweet-spot between AWD sportiness and Mustachian value?

inline five

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2017, 01:09:52 AM »
So - a little about me - I'm a 30-something Mustachian with a great job that I love, savings, zero-commute, and a bit of a lead foot.

After my last car died, I ended up with the balance of a three-year lease on a hybrid Subaru XV (35K on it w/ one year to go-the previous owner did not drive much).  In a year the Subaru will cost me about $16k to buy-out - its a great car for now, but I'm tempted by something sportier & I am worried about long-term maintenance on the battery ect. 

Most days I can walk to the office so during the week the XV gets used for grocery runs, ect (despite living downtown, my city on a whole is quite suburban & the good grocery stores are a bit too far to bike after work).

On weekends I climb, ski and bike, and it's not unusual for me to put 800+km on in a weekend, I also need a vehicle that's easy to load, carries two bikes & stores them securely inside (weeknights I sometimes go for a quick 20km MTB ride), and drives well onroad, is sporty yet easy to drive on the highways, drives well on rough gravel roads, and handles well in the winter.   
The XV does all of this well, but I wonder if a slightly bigger car might not be a bit more convenient.

Thus far I'm realising that I'm most likely looking for a sporty waggon of some kind - Audi A4 Allroad (just a really nice car), 3.6L Subaru Outback (nice to drive, huge cargo room - not that sporty), Volvo V60 (the Polestar was a fun test drive lol), VW All track (awesome to drive), are all what I'm seeing on dealers lots. 

That said - I'm wondering what Mustachians would suggest (new, coming off-lease and used)??

My priorities for a Waggon are:
  • Safety - IHS Top pic, ect
  • Usability - lots of spaces for kyacks, bikes, camping equipment, and tools
  • Reliability - I'm going to buy a car that I love and keep it for a long time, maintenance is a concern
  • Driveability - Long road-trips after work on a Friday night, and coming back Sunday after a long day of biking; also dealing with poor weather and we are in the snowbelt
  • Sportieness - I like driving a sporty car, SUV's always seem uninspired to me
  • It's nice to drive a nice car, I used to rent a lot for work and I found that people always seemed to give me more room on the roads and were less aggressive when I was driving a nicer car than when I was driving more of a mid-low end vehicle YMMV

For me the driving can be part of the fun, and I'm looking for something good and reliable for the next 10+ yrs, and that might eventually take a few kids in the back too.

I don't think you understand the purpose of this forum/community.

runewell

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2017, 06:40:38 AM »
The answer is a mustachian pays all cash for his vehicle and drives it until it dies a sad,sad death 10-20 years later.
No, a Mustachian takes advantage of low interest rate loans so that his wealth can stay invested and grow more quickly.
Please leave Dicey out of this! Have you not been paying any attention? Trolls are not welcome here!

Sibley

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2017, 06:52:42 AM »
The answer is a mustachian pays all cash for his vehicle and drives it until it dies a sad,sad death 10-20 years later.
No, a Mustachian takes advantage of low interest rate loans so that his wealth can stay invested and grow more quickly.

Both are viable. A Mustachian researches, considers the best course of action, and does the math.

Vegasgirl

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2017, 07:06:38 AM »
Damn, so you guys are paying $30k+ in cash for these cars?

Yeah, but tend to keep a car until it dies.  Did also discover to buy the certified used version as a good deal IMO.  Had to sell back my beloved Audi A3 TDI Hatchback that I planned on keeping forever because it was diesel and got 42mpg in mixed driving - I LOVED that car but it got caught up in the whole VW lawsuit thing.  Ended up getting a new car for free out of that deal but had to go back to gas powered engine.  When I got my replacement Audi A3 - the 2016 certified used with under 10k miles got a 6yr 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty vs buying new with the 3yr/36k warranty plus got first 50k miles of service, so not a bad deal.

facepalm

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2017, 07:35:27 AM »
I would not limit your search to a "wagon" as the American distaste for premium long roofs mean more limited choices with respect to packages, power options and such. I would choose a FWD, four door GTI. It has grown slightly, provides a ton of utility, sastifactory fuel economy and has a industry leading interior with  one of the most rewarding drives at this price point. This vehicle is bigger than it looks on the exterior. The boot is wider than an Allroad and it's premium quality will always remind you that this vehicle is literally one of those purchases that sits solidly in the value/premium sweet spot. I would grab it in a manual for the rewarding driving experience and slightly less routine maintenance in addition to lower costs. Discussions of reliability with Europen cars is a bit sensationalized. You have more to maintain because you are buying more. If you don't care about cars get a base Corolla or Civic and the appliance will be a bit less buggy.

I make and have enough money that I choose to operate a vehicle that provides a rewarding driving experience in addition to class leading utility and practicality.

Owned a number of GTIs (5). The latest version is perhaps the best car they have ever made--mechanically. I had, then sold a 2016 GTI.

My minor issue with the GTI is that it really does not have the room that the Allroad has, unless you put the seat down. A minor niggle, I suppose, but if you are skiing with friends it becomes an issue. Also, You will definitely want a set of snow tires on the GTI if you want to take it skiing. The FWD, in the snow, with performance tires was a bit unsettling. All my GTIs have been that way. The Audi is AWD and may come with M&S tires more likely so tires may be less of an issue.

In terms of long term reliability neither car will be that great. I found that once I hit about 70K things started to fall apart on every GTI that I owned. Problems with headliners and trim panels, A/C issues, window regulators. Water pumps going at 50K. I maintained all my cars meticulously. While the Audi is definitely more upscale than the VW, they do share a lot of the same underpinnings/parts--but they are still generally of a higher quality. I'm a former mechanic (German cars), so I'm used to dealing with quality issues. Do not, under any circumstance, buy a GTI that is over 4 years old.

Current model GTIs have too-soft paint. All of them. VW also cut some corners when they moved production to Mexico. My 2016 had a number of quality issues with the body that I was told were "normal." On the positive, the car was a hoot to drive. But I dumped it after a year.

I have owned Subarus too. They have their issues, but you generally have to drive 150K before they become apparent.

Sporty. Reliable. Economical. Pick two. Personally I'd buy a used SUV and a Miata. Best of both worlds. I'd never buy another "sporty" anything because of the compromises. Thats why I drive a Camry and ride and 1190 KTM. :-)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 07:37:30 AM by facepalm »

tarheeldan

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2017, 07:40:16 AM »
There is also the Acura TSX Sport Wagon. I have a 2010 TSX sedan and love it! Super reliable. The 4cyl at 200hp is plenty and rev-happy.


Tetsuya Hondo

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2017, 01:12:32 PM »
Do you have any debts? Are you on track to FIRE? Have you weighed the opportunity costs of a fancy new car versus the opportunity cost of saving/investing? Have you read MMM's articles on cars? Are you sure you're not being a consumerist sucka?
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/22/what-is-hedonic-adaptation-and-how-can-it-turn-you-into-a-sukka/

If not, then Mustachians would recommend a face punch. Seriously, this forum has gotten soft if I'm the first to deliver one.

And, you asked about new?! Mother***** please! You're on the wrong forum for that!



Having said that, I love me some sportwagons and used to have an Audi A4 Avant (which they butched up a year later with some plastic cladding and a bit more ride height). Was a great car, but Audis tend to absorb money through maintenance costs, higher insurance, higher property taxes, premium gas, etc. etc. It all adds up. I now drive a Toyota which is dirt cheap to maintain. I don't care where I park it. I don't sweat what happens to it. I own it, where the Audi started to own me. If you're concerned about batteries on the Subaru, just wait to you have to replace something under warranty on the Audi.

The most Mustacian choice is a cosmetically challenged Mazda 5 with 150k miles on it. But, since you want sportiness and reliability and if you live in the US, then I agree with tarheeldan, you need a used TSX wagon.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 01:14:31 PM by Tetsuya Hondo »

rothwem

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2017, 01:36:02 PM »
I think its a troll, its got to be.  The post reads like one of the MMM blog's "bad examples".  His name is even "fancy-pants".  I think that this is MMM coming here to test us.

I don't have a particularly Mustachian car, but I also didn't post asking for advice on which un-mustachian car to buy either. 

Scandium

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2017, 07:46:14 AM »

If not, then Mustachians would recommend a face punch. Seriously, this forum has gotten soft if I'm the first to deliver one.

And, you asked about new?! Mother***** please! You're on the wrong forum for that!

Seriously! Now this forums is all "well, you gotta have some fun", "do what makes you happy", "YOLO!" etc etc. Almost any ridiculous spending can be justified with that! Isn't MMM's message exactly that buying fancy shit makes you "feel happy", but science tells us that, like a heroin addict, we need to go back for more, and more, and more?

Someone wants to buy a fancy audi, volvo or VW?! WTF? Overpriced pimped out luxury cars that serve as a straight transfer from your wallet to the repair center? Hell no! In case this isn't a troll: stick with the subaru. Get your thrills from MTB. If you must; rent a sports car at a race track. Still costs less than 1 year of depreciation on an audi, and safer.  Stay away from European cars.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 07:49:33 AM by Scandium »

skeeder

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2017, 02:34:26 PM »
I tend to lean on the Japanese side of the fence (maybe Korean).  So I do agree, owning an European car does tend to have a higher cost associated with it.  I do--however--love the wagon.  However, in the US they are almost impossible to find. 

I ended up with a Sedan for this very reason.  That being said, my Camry is a very comfortable car with a large trunk with seats that fold down.
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sequoia

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2017, 08:30:06 PM »

If not, then Mustachians would recommend a face punch. Seriously, this forum has gotten soft if I'm the first to deliver one.

And, you asked about new?! Mother***** please! You're on the wrong forum for that!

Seriously! Now this forums is all "well, you gotta have some fun", "do what makes you happy", "YOLO!" etc etc. Almost any ridiculous spending can be justified with that! Isn't MMM's message exactly that buying fancy shit makes you "feel happy", but science tells us that, like a heroin addict, we need to go back for more, and more, and more?

Someone wants to buy a fancy audi, volvo or VW?! WTF? Overpriced pimped out luxury cars that serve as a straight transfer from your wallet to the repair center? Hell no! In case this isn't a troll: stick with the subaru. Get your thrills from MTB. If you must; rent a sports car at a race track. Still costs less than 1 year of depreciation on an audi, and safer.  Stay away from European cars.

It is bad if you swing too far, ie buying stuffs that you can not afford, but it is also bad to go too far in the other direction. If you can afford a car, nothing wrong about buying and enjoying it. Not everyone likes to walk or bike everywhere. Plenty of people here splurge within their budget, either nice used car, travel around the world, or just get a Starbucks every once in a while. I do not think MMM message is not to be happy (and be whatever opposite of happy), otherwise I am definitely in the wrong forum.

imo if OP or anyone here can afford it (we do not know that, but lets say he won several M in lottery), why not have some fun? Yes, I agree with you about staying away from European car, but comparing buying a used car to being a heroin addict, really? I wonder what kind of science you read...
 

MM_MG

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2017, 10:19:55 PM »
I clicked the link thinking I was going to see someone posting up about a MB E63 AMG Wagon, then remembered what forum I was on.

We have a 3.6L Subaru Outback and love it, but agree it isn't too "sporty."  I'd also look at the Audi A6 or, dare I say, even the S6 wagons. 

Scandium

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2017, 09:24:25 AM »

If not, then Mustachians would recommend a face punch. Seriously, this forum has gotten soft if I'm the first to deliver one.

And, you asked about new?! Mother***** please! You're on the wrong forum for that!

Seriously! Now this forums is all "well, you gotta have some fun", "do what makes you happy", "YOLO!" etc etc. Almost any ridiculous spending can be justified with that! Isn't MMM's message exactly that buying fancy shit makes you "feel happy", but science tells us that, like a heroin addict, we need to go back for more, and more, and more?

Someone wants to buy a fancy audi, volvo or VW?! WTF? Overpriced pimped out luxury cars that serve as a straight transfer from your wallet to the repair center? Hell no! In case this isn't a troll: stick with the subaru. Get your thrills from MTB. If you must; rent a sports car at a race track. Still costs less than 1 year of depreciation on an audi, and safer.  Stay away from European cars.

It is bad if you swing too far, ie buying stuffs that you can not afford, but it is also bad to go too far in the other direction. If you can afford a car, nothing wrong about buying and enjoying it. Not everyone likes to walk or bike everywhere. Plenty of people here splurge within their budget, either nice used car, travel around the world, or just get a Starbucks every once in a while. I do not think MMM message is not to be happy (and be whatever opposite of happy), otherwise I am definitely in the wrong forum.

imo if OP or anyone here can afford it (we do not know that, but lets say he won several M in lottery), why not have some fun? Yes, I agree with you about staying away from European car, but comparing buying a used car to being a heroin addict, really? I wonder what kind of science you read...

I think you proved my point.. I see this a lot here now, but what does "if you can afford it" mean? I find the statement pretty meaningless. I can afford plenty of silly things, as can most people with a decent salary. But that all means that money doesn't go to investments, i.e. I retired later. So I think you mean you can afford it if you move your FIRE data back X years. Yes I have the money for it, but if I've decided I want to retire at say 50, then I cannot afford a $60k car. How do you then decide what you can "afford"? Something that move your FIRE date by more than a max amount of years? Or the last item that push you past the latest age you're willing to accept (say 40, 50, 65?)?

Buying fancy shit activate pleasure receptors in the brain, which quickly fade and require constant activation, i.e. buying more fancy shit ad infinitum. I didn't realize this was controversial, especially not here?

Tetsuya Hondo

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2017, 10:38:19 AM »

I think you proved my point.. I see this a lot here now, but what does "if you can afford it" mean? I find the statement pretty meaningless. I can afford plenty of silly things, as can most people with a decent salary. But that all means that money doesn't go to investments, i.e. I retired later. So I think you mean you can afford it if you move your FIRE data back X years. Yes I have the money for it, but if I've decided I want to retire at say 50, then I cannot afford a $60k car. How do you then decide what you can "afford"? Something that move your FIRE date by more than a max amount of years? Or the last item that push you past the latest age you're willing to accept (say 40, 50, 65?)?

Buying fancy shit activate pleasure receptors in the brain, which quickly fade and require constant activation, i.e. buying more fancy shit ad infinitum. I didn't realize this was controversial, especially not here?

Scandium, I don't think half the people posting on the forums nowadays have ever read anything from MMM. It used to be you would get a virtual (but friendly, positive) beat down for even mentioning buying a car. Now, it's not just "buy a car!" It's "buy an Audi! It will make you feel better!"

Fuck that. I can get that sort of drivel anywhere. I come here to be challenged and to be slapped out of my consumerist mindset. I come to be reminded that shit does not make me happy and is often counterproductive to leading a full and meaningful life. Anyone that thinks otherwise has completely missed the point of this whole website.

Optimiser

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2017, 05:00:38 PM »

If not, then Mustachians would recommend a face punch. Seriously, this forum has gotten soft if I'm the first to deliver one.

And, you asked about new?! Mother***** please! You're on the wrong forum for that!

Seriously! Now this forums is all "well, you gotta have some fun", "do what makes you happy", "YOLO!" etc etc. Almost any ridiculous spending can be justified with that! Isn't MMM's message exactly that buying fancy shit makes you "feel happy", but science tells us that, like a heroin addict, we need to go back for more, and more, and more?

Someone wants to buy a fancy audi, volvo or VW?! WTF? Overpriced pimped out luxury cars that serve as a straight transfer from your wallet to the repair center? Hell no! In case this isn't a troll: stick with the subaru. Get your thrills from MTB. If you must; rent a sports car at a race track. Still costs less than 1 year of depreciation on an audi, and safer.  Stay away from European cars.

It is bad if you swing too far, ie buying stuffs that you can not afford, but it is also bad to go too far in the other direction. If you can afford a car, nothing wrong about buying and enjoying it. Not everyone likes to walk or bike everywhere. Plenty of people here splurge within their budget, either nice used car, travel around the world, or just get a Starbucks every once in a while. I do not think MMM message is not to be happy (and be whatever opposite of happy), otherwise I am definitely in the wrong forum.

imo if OP or anyone here can afford it (we do not know that, but lets say he won several M in lottery), why not have some fun? Yes, I agree with you about staying away from European car, but comparing buying a used car to being a heroin addict, really? I wonder what kind of science you read...

I believe the MMM message is buying things doesn't make you happy.

Relevant:
Curing Your Clown-Like Car Habit
Luxury is Just Another Weakness
Is it Convenient? Would I Enjoy it? Wrong Question.
Reader Case Study: Young Man Saved from Jeep Suicide
and
What is Hedonic Adaptation and How Can it Turn You Into a Sucka?

If the OP wants to buy an expensive car that he/she doesn't need that's fine, but that isn't really what this site is about.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 05:03:21 PM by Optimiser »

RethinkTheRatRace

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Re: Sportswagons for Mustachians...
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2017, 08:20:42 AM »

I think you proved my point.. I see this a lot here now, but what does "if you can afford it" mean? I find the statement pretty meaningless. I can afford plenty of silly things, as can most people with a decent salary. But that all means that money doesn't go to investments, i.e. I retired later. So I think you mean you can afford it if you move your FIRE data back X years. Yes I have the money for it, but if I've decided I want to retire at say 50, then I cannot afford a $60k car. How do you then decide what you can "afford"? Something that move your FIRE date by more than a max amount of years? Or the last item that push you past the latest age you're willing to accept (say 40, 50, 65?)?

Buying fancy shit activate pleasure receptors in the brain, which quickly fade and require constant activation, i.e. buying more fancy shit ad infinitum. I didn't realize this was controversial, especially not here?

Scandium, I don't think half the people posting on the forums nowadays have ever read anything from MMM. It used to be you would get a virtual (but friendly, positive) beat down for even mentioning buying a car. Now, it's not just "buy a car!" It's "buy an Audi! It will make you feel better!"

Fuck that. I can get that sort of drivel anywhere. I come here to be challenged and to be slapped out of my consumerist mindset. I come to be reminded that shit does not make me happy and is often counterproductive to leading a full and meaningful life. Anyone that thinks otherwise has completely missed the point of this whole website.

^^This^^
I clicked this post half expecting to see some people talking about older subarus or something. Hell, I was going to suggest a stick shift Mazda Protege. I haven't been on the forums in a minute, admittedly I've been scrolling the facebook group, and I can attest to the fact that this place has gone soft. "dollar per happiness levels" don't apply when we are talking about new cars. Unless you are already FIRE, all this shit is for naught. Even the used cars being suggested are overpriced. It would literally be cheaper from every aspect to buy a Honda CRV and a Miata and you would have "utility and sportiness". OP says..."People gave me more room on the roads because I was driving a nicer car" Y'all weak asses need to find somewhere else to hang out.
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