Split time across two cities (aka snowbird)

[vagavince]

Was wondering if there are anyone who split their time across two cities. Would love to hear about people’s experience and pro/con. In early retirement or just working remotely

For myself, I enjoy the amenities of big city. But it will be good to spend summer/winter outside of big cities to ski/surf. The cost side seems difficult to manage though

[JoJo]

Keep the place in the big city, rent it out (if you can) while you're out traveling.  Since you want to surf/ski, find rentals.  Consider international travel, lots of cheaper places to visit, long term travel. 

I personally am homeless by choice - mix of van camping, staying with family, and international travel. 

[roomtempmayo]

The cost side seems difficult to manage though

My wife and I maintained a second house on the other side of the country for four years.

Costs for the second place were north of 30k annually for a MCOL area.  That included additional rent, an additional car, and travel expenses back and forth.

I imagine if you wanted to reverse-snowbird, you could probably do it very reasonably.  Spend winters housesitting in northern Ohio, and summers down in Phoenix.  You might even be able to get paid to do that.  But I sorta suspect that isn't what you have in mind.

[RyanAtTanagra]

We do, but in a bit of a unique way, but I'll share it as an example of thinking outside of the box.  I bought a sailboat in the SF Bay about 7 years ago to move onto to test the theory that living on a sailboat, compared to the cost of paying rent, would pay for itself.  I broke even after a few years so the sailboat and all it's expenses ended up being 'free', compared to the apartment rent I gave up. 

Anyway, we've since moved 2 hours away into the mountains near Tahoe, but decided to keep the boat as our sf bay area on-the-water vacation home.  We spend most of winter at the house skiing, and as much of summer as possible in the bay sailing.  Similar to you, part of the driver for that was not wanting to give up the access to culture of a big city, which we don't get in the mountains.

Cost-wise, I'm hoping to keep it at $500/mo total between slip fees and maintenance/repairs.  It hasn't been long enough to see if that's realistic, but it should at least be close.  A lot cheaper than owning two homes, in any case.

All that to say, homes are $$$ and work, what other options could satisfy what you're really looking for?

[shadowmoss]

I'm a retired snow bird.  I live in AZ year round.  I also live in my Class A motor home full time.  I spend summers in a small town at 5K' elevation, so much cooler.  I spend winters living in a resort RV park in Metro Phoenix.  That said, I plan to switch things around a bit over the next year.  I have 2 older Class A RV's (long story).  Each might (might!) be worth around $10K.  I'm planning on leaving one in storage up here next winter, where it is now, and taking the other that I currently live in down to the Valley for the winters and leaving it there.  I pay for lot rent by the year down there so it won't cost any more to do that.  My manager up here keeps my spot for me over the winter, rents it temporarily if anyone needs a short term spot.

Basically, if you look into something like an RV (or sailboat!) that can be put in storage for the off season it can be a bit cheaper to live this way.  Having the home be separate from the lot (or slip) it's on means that either one can be changed as you want.  Specifically, I'm going to change which city I spend the winters in after this year.  I may or may not change one or both RV's for different reasons.  I'm a fan of flexibility, and living in an RV gives me this.

I will say that RV living works best in moderate climates.  I would not want to spend a Phoenix summer in an RV, even though I have friends who do it.

[RyanAtTanagra]

Personally I like to keep things simple and easy so would just rent (or buy) in my permanent city if I wanted to stay there long term and spend most of the year there, and just temp rent a short term furnished place for the times I wanted to go elsewhere. It gives you the option to go anywhere in the world easily for the months without having to buy, pay for and maintain a second home (or boat or RV). Also if you don't like your choosen snowbirds location you can easily change it.

I would second this.  People tend to not be honest with themselves about the money and time suck of a second home.  If you added up all the costs (including opportunity cost) and time spent maintaining and cleaning every time you go there, renting often wins out big time.

[shadowmoss]

Another option for whichever place you live in the shortest time of year is the residence inn type of places.  I stayed in one, Extended Stay America, when I first moved to Phoenix.  It is a studio apartment with kitchen, cable TV, internet and utilities all included.  For more than a month deal directly with the location where you want to rent.  Since it is all included (even morning coffee!), it can maybe come in cheaper than having your own place.  No obligation in the off season you aren't there.  Also, a kind of known entity when first getting into an area.

Do your due diligence and there can be many ways to snowbird.  Start with a cheap(er), low obligation way and find the level of cost/convenience you are comfortable with.

[surpasspro]

I have a 2nd vacation lake house that is seasonal.  Its about a 2 hour drive from my primary residence.  Anything further than that it becomes harder to just go for a couple of days/weekend.  Since I'm working from home now I've been staying at the vacation house for the summer.  I had to buy a lot of duplicate items so I didn't have to shuttle stuff back and forth.  I have relatives check on my primary home, cut the lawn, etc., plus I have security cameras just so I can keep on eye on it.  So this scenario works for me since it close and I can always just drive home when needed.  If I had to get on a plane than it wouldn't get used as much as probably wouldn't be worth the extra maintenance expense for me.

[Metalcat]

I'm currently the opposite of a snow bird I guess??

I have two houses, but so far I'm spending my summer in the one that had the colder summer and will be spending my winter in the one that has the colder winter.

My houses are very far apart, like a 32 hour drive. One is smack dab downtown in the middle of a major city, and the other is in a village of 170 people.

Is it far more expensive to own two houses compared to one? Well yeah, obviously. But the combined purchase price of our two houses is still less than what we sold our old modest row house for 3 years ago, so we're managing juuuust fine.

Our second house could easily be used as an AirBnB for cash flow too, it's in a booming tourist area where rentals are quite expensive. So as long as this is where we want to spend time, we save a fortune by owning comparing to renting here, and when we don't want to use it, we can rent it out.

Plus, our city house is actually a really well located one bedroom apartment, so we could easily rent that out for a season as well. We may never bother though, because as I said, the cost of the two places combined is very affordable.

I'm disabled and have a complex illness, so travel for me at this time is a bit of a challenge. Paying for a trip somewhere is basically a waste since I always need a few recovery days from travel, and I can barely walk, so it's hard to explore anywhere. That's why we bought the vacation home, because we bought it in one of the most geographically spectacular locations on the planet (no exaggeration, it's fucking bananas here), so I can just hang out and casually enjoy the place instead of feeling pressured to make the trip worthwhile. We're living here, not traveling here.

Both places have harsh winters, but it's nice to be in the city for winter because there are so many indoor things to do, plus many of the city streets are well cleared, so there's just a lot more options for things to do for a lady on crutches.

A key point though is that if you are going to be living in multiple places, you have to be okay always being away from your home. Yes, you're always at your home, but you're also always away from home, neighbours, friends, and community.

I'm having a whiny sick day today and this morning I said to DH "I would kill one of the siblings I actually like for a good pizza." Every day there are just things missing here that are part of my normal life back in the city. I miss my sister dropping in, I miss hearing French, I miss outdoor concerts.

Then again, once I go back, I'm going to deeeeeeply miss the ocean, I'm going to be incredibly sad to not have my own little home office anymore, and I'm going to miss hearing Newfies talk.

Now, I'm not someone who has ever really had a home. The longest I've ever lived most places is one to two years, so for me, it's really not a big deal, but I know a lot of people who snowbird who feel disconnected.

Socially it can be hard because you're always just a part time friend. You have to have good friendship skills to on-ramp back into a more intimate bons with people who only see you part time. You can easily get relegated to "casual" friend by everyone in your life if your aren't intentional about your bonds.

[fuzzy math]

Does everyone cancel utilities (internet etc), unplug the fridge and whatever else when you leave a place for 4+ months? Do you change your mail forwarding constantly?

[Bateaux]

We have three houses.  Two in Louisiana and one in Florida.  I'd like to sell/rent the Louisiana properties to our adult children.  They want to live there, just rent free.  Imagine that.  The Florida house could become our residence some time next year after FIRE.  All the homes are basically in a sweaty southern climate.  I'm looking at mountain property for somewhat cooler summers but a day drive from central Florida.  Virginia has surprisingly cheap mountain property.  My caveat is it needs to be walking distance from the Appalachian Trail.  I want to be able to host hikers and hike from my own property.

[shadowmoss]

The snowbirds in the parks where I've lived in Phoenix metro do turn off utilities when they leave and close up the park model or mobile home.  One of the requirements of every park I've been in is that there must be a local designated caretaker to check on the place and keep the yard free of weeds.  The lots are gravel and weeds come up if not taken care of.  As someone who takes my home with me I don't have that issue, and I'm an hour and a half away so I just stop in every couple of weeks to pull weeds, etc.  Also, I end up getting a lot of food from folks the day they leave and turn off the fridge.

[Brystheguy]

We are 2.5 years from semi-retiring and plan to do this. Our primary residence is in the Midwest, we have part of a lake place with my siblings within three hours , and purchased a condo in a mountain town in Colorado. We plan on staying in the Colorado place for the summers and the Midwest for the winter. We have everything paid off so monthly costs will be fairly minimal. I don't know if we would be able to swing it if we had mortgages on all those places. We really worked hard to pay it all off, even though most would argue against it. It's a piece of mind thing and we think it will allow us to do what we want to do. We will be able to easily pay for the expenses of the condo by Airbnb-ing it out during ski season from December to April. That's our plan anyways! We thought about selling the condo last year as it would be cheaper to rent but there's something about having all of your own stuff and knowing what is waiting for you when you get there.

[RyanAtTanagra]

For the mail thing, if you don't want to worry about/deal with it, there's are services that sailboat cruisers use where you have all your mail forwarded to them and they throw away the junk and scan in everything else and email it to you.  I've thought about getting it just because I hate dealing with mail.

[Metalcat]

Personally I like to keep things simple and easy so would just rent (or buy) in my permanent city if I wanted to stay there long term and spend most of the year there, and just temp rent a short term furnished place for the times I wanted to go elsewhere. It gives you the option to go anywhere in the world easily for the months without having to buy, pay for and maintain a second home (or boat or RV). Also if you don't like your choosen snowbirds location you can easily change it.

I would second this.  People tend to not be honest with themselves about the money and time suck of a second home.  If you added up all the costs (including opportunity cost) and time spent maintaining and cleaning every time you go there, renting often wins out big time.

Lol I can barely handle one home. Seriously, I just want to spend my time doing other things and not mucking around doing home repairs etc all the time. I have thought about a very small simple condo though as I could just lock it up and go. Probably little to no maintenance. A condo in the mountain and a condo by the sea maybe? Not my thing but I can see that as a more workable situation for those of us who don't want to go to the same areas every year or in their free time but don't want to spend a lot of that free time doing maintenance and household chores.

One of my homes is a simple condo that requires little to no maintenance. The other is a simple saltbox that also has pretty minimal maintenance needs, and when it does, they're stupid simple to fix because almost all of the plumbing and wiring is exposed.

[LiveLean]

Does everyone cancel utilities (internet etc), unplug the fridge and whatever else when you leave a place for 4+ months? Do you change your mail forwarding constantly?

I turned off the water at the meter but left everything else on (set up auto on/off lights inside and out) but turned down the water heater (gas) and unplugged everything. Put in a mail slot so mail went into garage. I had my Mom or sister check on the place weekly (and for shorter trips house/pet sit) and they would take care of anything. Bills on auto pay and not really much to do for them but turn on water, run the taps a bit, water the front lawn (had a gardner to mow front and hardscaped and trees in back yard) etc.

Our second home/rental property was built in 1960 in a beach community where, at the time, people didn't live year-round. (It's an 1100 square foot house now surrounded mostly by recently-built monster homes.) Since our home is too cold (uninsulated) to use comfortably or rent out in the winter months, we have it winterized, water shut off, heat turned to 55 and cable/Internet on a seasonal disconnect. We don't get any mail there and between the management company and neighbors, all goes well.

[iris lily]

Earlier this month we moved permanently to what had been our “weekend house “and we sold our Victorian townhouse that we’ve had for 33 years. This is in a small touristy town that’s cute.

We retain a small condo in the nearby big city 85 miles away.

We live in flyover country so real estate costs are not much. For purposes of our asset statement, I value of the condo at $75,000 and our permanent residence at $250,000.

[lifeisshort123]

We would like to go this route… We are uncertain whether it will work out

Perhaps a primary home, and then an air B and B that we generate income from for much of the year, and then we live there 4 months out of the year or so.  Not there yet, and we aren’t even sure where we’d go.

[Just Joe]

Does everyone cancel utilities (internet etc), unplug the fridge and whatever else when you leave a place for 4+ months? Do you change your mail forwarding constantly?

I think freezing pipes (winter) and mold (summer) would be an issue in some parts of the country.

[Poeirenta]

Going to jump in since we are also thinking about this.

Question for those who have a second/vacation home already: how does the home insurance work for you? Our currrent provider told me that the house can't be unoccupied for more than 4 months (and I foolishly forgot to ask if that was out of 12 months or if the clock would reset every time the owner returned).

We'd like to hang on to our paid-off nature retreat that has very low monthly costs, but we're also really interested in a) not dealing with winter driving, and b) slow travel.  If we want to do something like the Portugal retirement visa, we'd have to be away from this house at least 6 months out of the year. Unfortunately our rural, off-grid house is pretty challenging for a housesit, especially if one wants fast internet. And I don't know if a housesitter would negate the '4 months unoccupied' clause in our insurance.

Thanks for starting this thread!

[Metalcat]

Going to jump in since we are also thinking about this.

Question for those who have a second/vacation home already: how does the home insurance work for you? Our currrent provider told me that the house can't be unoccupied for more than 4 months (and I foolishly forgot to ask if that was out of 12 months or if the clock would reset every time the owner returned).

We'd like to hang on to our paid-off nature retreat that has very low monthly costs, but we're also really interested in a) not dealing with winter driving, and b) slow travel.  If we want to do something like the Portugal retirement visa, we'd have to be away from this house at least 6 months out of the year. Unfortunately our rural, off-grid house is pretty challenging for a housesit, especially if one wants fast internet. And I don't know if a housesitter would negate the '4 months unoccupied' clause in our insurance.

Thanks for starting this thread!

Just ask them. My insurer had no problem as long as someone was paid to take care of the house while we're not here.

If one insurance company won't insure it, then look for another one.

[shadowmoss]

If the snowbird house is in the desert Southwest, mold and frozen pipes are not issues.  The lack of humidity keeps mold away, and it doesn't freeze in Phoenix and points south and west, at least where most folks would have a winter snowbird home.  Elevation plays the biggest role in temperatures out here, so some places at elevation south of Phoenix still get winter weather.  That isn't where most of the winter snowbirds congregate, though.