Socializing/Dating + Pursuit of Financial Independence

[drpassiveincome]

How do you guys control your socializing and dating expenses? I'm over budget by $500 this month because of these two expenses.

[force majeure]

I find its better to get the mustachian thing out in the open early on.
You will find out before its too late, without sunk costs or trading of insults.

If I am on a date and I get a hint shes a princess / expects me to pay for everything, I would be checking the restroom for an open window.

[h82goslw]

If I am on a date and I get a hint shes a princess / expects me to pay for everything, I would be checking the restroom for an open window.

Please take video of this.

[coynemoney]

I don't know the answer but I feel your pain. I'm coming up on my third destination bachelor party this year (plane tickets/lodging/strip clubs) and wedding (gifts/showers/rehearsals). These are things I can't really skip and are ultimately a great time but killing my finances. I'm sure in the past 3 years my fiance and I have spent thousands on other people's weddings. Now we have our wedding to expenses to look forward to ;).

[ender]

How do you guys control your socializing and dating expenses? I'm over budget by $500 this month because of these two expenses.

The same way I control other expenses, I use self restraint and self control and choose to engage in activities that are not as expensive.

[ooeei]

I guess it depends what you do for dates, and how often.  The same for socializing.

When I was doing online dating, I'd usually invite the girl out for drinks somewhere.  We'd end up each having 1-2 drinks and I'd usually pay for it.  $20-30 if you include an appetizer or something.  That was for the first date, and I'd only have 1-2 of those a week.  2nd date maybe we'd get dinner, that would be more like $40.  3rd date we'd do something fun, could be disc golf, movie, live music, etc.  Those don't have to be expensive, probably $40.  After that we'd know each other well enough that I'd usually invite them over and cook something.  Only got to the 3rd date with two girls, and I'm still dating one of them 2 years later.  Both of them insisted on paying for at least one of the three dates (don't remember if I let them or not).

I went on maybe 5-6 first dates, and 2 second dates in a month, then I found my girlfriend.  That month I spent probably $150-200 on dating.  Once I had snagged my girlfriend, the cost dropped a bit because we both like cooking at home, but it was still probably $100 or so a month.

$500/month tells me you are either dating girls with expensive tastes, going on a LOT of dates, or are trying to impress girls with expensive things. 

[Fishindude]

Man, those destination weddings, bachelor parties, etc. are getting out of hand.
Nobody wants to be viewed as cheap, but you also can't jeopardize your personal finances to attend this stuff.   I don't think it would be out of line to decline attending if it puts you in a pinch.

Regarding dates, there are many things you could be doing that are very cheap.   Take a hike someplace scenic, cook out at a local park, go to the beach or a lake, attend a (non professional) sporting event, go to a museum, fair or festival, take a bike ride, etc., etc.

[AM43]

Friend of mine used to take his dates to flea market.
It was his way to find out what kind of girls he was dating.
He would buy them cheap, inexpensive gifts there and watch their reaction.
I thought it was hilarious and could not wait to hear another story from his date.

[rob in cal]

   There must be some efficient way for single mustachians to get together and avoid these ridiculous dating costs.

[Zikoris]

Hmm... I haven't dated for a LONG time, but when I did, I just planned to do cheap or free activities. I wasn't Mustachian back then, just poor :) Go for a walk in the park, go ballroom dancing (the local dance studios here are open most night for very low cost social dancing), go see fireworks.

As far as socializing, I've always had the best luck meeting people through activities. I've met a LOT of people through ballroom dance over the years, especially. I also helped start a local Mustachian meetup group, so everyone who comes out for that is already kind of in the mindset. The friends my boyfriend spends the most time with are his Dungeons and Dragons group, which doesn't cost him anything - they apparently buy a lot of takeout and drinks, but he just brings his own stuff from home.

[HipGnosis]

How do you guys control your socializing and dating expenses? I'm over budget by $500 this month because of these two expenses.

No
.
.
That is, I learned to say "No". 
To anyone that asks me to do things I can't afford (and that 'afford' is on my terms, not theirs) and to myself (see note re my terms of 'afford').
Easy peasy after that.

[RobFIRE]

For dating, I would focus on dates that are based on a low cost activity like visiting a park or a free museum (I'd still make a donation) and say going for a drink/coffee & cake afterwards, because the purpose of initial dates is to talk, what you're doing while you talk doesn't matter much (I would always avoid the cinema for that reason). If your date (person) is keen on some expensive activity / being bought dinner etc. then it would suggest you're not going to be a match.

For friendship socalizing I'd again try to work things as meeting for a low-cost activity & drink, or invite people for a home-cooked dinner rather than going out to a restaurant. If looking to meet up at a sporting event you might be able to choose a slightly different event on another day at a much lower price, if really the social aspect of the event is more important than the actual sport (e.g. local team rather than international team). Of course I'll still go to restaurants with friends on occasion, also you can also spend half as much as others might if you choose somewhere less formal/don't have multiple drinks etc. If friends insisted on overpriced activities all the time then we would not be understanding each other, so a good friendship wouldn't be possible anyway.

[supersudo]

Imo the key to frugality is eliminating things from my spending that don't improve my quality of life. Cutting all socializing expenses is not a requirement to be frugal.

Now, one of the most transformative things about learning mustachianism is being able to actually identify which things improve your quality of life. Learning that is step 1 to brainless budgeting - if you're still struggling with this, figure it out before trying to decide which expenses to cut.

I ask myself: what purchases this past month were "not worth it" in retrospect? Those are the spending situations I should try to avoid in the future. Over time, you should eventually be able to review your last month's spending with no regret-filled line items.

If you look at your expenses and say, well shit, I don't regret a penny of this "socializing" spending and it absolutely added value to my life, then look to other areas of your budget to reduce expenses.

There's no "right way" to save more money. Everyone's values are different.

[Hotstreak]

OP, couple ideas to shave down socializing:

-  Eat a snack before you go out so you feel comfortable ordering a smaller meal or an appetizer.  I like to pack a little extra lunch and eat it around 4pm if I know I'm going out.  Also I keep a bag of mixed nuts and another bag of oatmeal I can snack on.
-  Order simple drinks, with cheap liquor, in tall glasses, and drink them slowly.  Cheap vodka with soda and lime tastes just as good as the same drink with Grey Goose, and might cost $6 instead of $12.
-  Find cheaper places to go.  Try to find ones with an attraction, likepool tables, 'great TV's' at a sports bar, etc., and build them in to your rotation.  Once your sitting at a table, there's not a huge difference between a nice vs cheap place, you just have to sell your friends on going there.
-  Cut out casual drinking at home.  A lower alcohol tolerance DOES make you a cheap date, which is a really good thing if you want to save money.
-  When at a friends house, always buy food at the grocery store instead of take-out.  It doesn't have to be gourmet.. a huge $15 take and bake pizza can serve 4-6 people easily.  Chop up some carrots and celery for the rabbits in the group and you've got a pretty delicious meal for less than $5/person.

After all, the real fun comes from being around your friends, from talking to them, telling jokes, meeting new people.  The food and drink is a side attraction.  Start treating it as such & you can save a load of money.


For dating I agree with ooeei's post up above.  A nice coffee date for two is < $10, and drinks at an average or better place should be $20-30.  If you're going on so many dates that it's consistently costing you too much, try being more picky about who you will go on a date with.  If your goal is a long term relationship, then you really need to look at your selection process.  Effective dating is a short term process, not a 12+ month expense.

[Exhale]

As a 40+ person on the dating scene, I've found that many people my age blow through money like it's water (which makes it easy to separate the spendypants form the others). To start, I always suggest a walk at a local park (at a time when it's busy with no isolated spots) and then, if the walk has gone well, suggest we grab a tea/coffee. Then I move on to activities such as those listed below.

The key is that you feel comfortable about the activity. If you're entering into it with confidence and enjoyment then your date will either have a grand time getting to know you or decide that it's not for them. Either way it's a win for you.

Some ideas for the initial phase of dating:
- Bookstore/library readings
- Art walks
- Concerts in the park
- Farmer's market
- More walks in parks/neighborhoods
- School plays, Little League games, etc.
- Hikes with a local hiking group

Ideas for later dates:
- Game night with/without other friends
- Volunteering somewhere - repairing hiking trails, local senior home, food kitchen, animal shelter
- Ushering at local theaters and other venues (gets you in for free)

[RosieTR]

This is tough to tell given your information. First off, a bachelor party is not a "must do" unless it's your brother or your absolute bestie and you're at least in the wedding party. If you ID a few people for whom it would really be a shame to miss this, then you should feel OK shelling out for a FEW (3-4 max) very special occasions. Any other "you know what we should do? Bachelor party in Vegas, man!" people, well, you suddenly have a work obligation you cannot get out of in any way.
For weddings, maybe open it up a little more, but still these should be people you can imagine hanging out with far into the future. Or relatives for whom it would be quite awkward to skip. In that case, unless it's a very good friend, this should be people that you have common friends with. Then you introduce the concept of sharing hotel rooms and car rentals if it's that kind of thing. This works less well when you're older and lots of friends are coupled-up, but you can still be a third wheel or they can if everyone is friends. Also, your SO does not need to go with you to every wedding, when/if you have an SO.

As for dating, if you're internet dating then the point of the first date is to screen. Forget all that shit about winking and telling your life story in a private blog with a random potential date. Ask to meet in person in a public, non-threatening place if some of the main sticking points are met (age, location, other factors such as interests, religion, political views, etc). Your goal is a lot of first dates, to find someone that is worth a second date. You're going dutch. It's 2016 FFS! If a girl wants you to pay, she's a gold-digger or broke, neither of which is likely to fit with your values. If you go on a date (which should be a coffee shop or a bar that has more of a "sit and talk" atmosphere than music/heavy drinking/being "seen") then see if she offers to pay for herself or balks if you don't hustle forward with moolah. If she's self-sufficient and expects an equal partnership, she'll be OK with this and possibly a second date. If she's a person who will want a "ROCK!" later, she'll be hesitant that you weren't forthcoming. A little pain now avoids a lot of pain later.

Others have given good advice on friend socializing, though I would add that it helps to think about whether you will be eating OR drinking when you go out. If you're eating, you're not drinking anything but water. If you're drinking, you're having one, savored, drink. In this case, it's often good to be the driver because then you can pass off not drinking as that. If people give you shit for it, well, you know a friend-of-a-friend who got a DUI/had a drunk-driving accident recently and it was a complete shit show that you'd rather not experience. If they still push, then you just ask if they are trying to get you to drink and drive and if so, that's really not cool. In any friend situation, pulling the "broke" card can work well. Rent/insurance/student loans/mortgage/groceries/your car/all these damn weddings/pick your poison is SOOOO expensive! You'll go with the group but you're broke so you can only have one beer/a salad/an appetizer/a side. They don't know your budget, make them think it's tighter than it actually is.

[clarkfan1979]

I agree that $500/month is way too much for dating. Your strategy also might be attracting a non-MMM girl. Someone suggested that the first date be the cheapest and then might get a little more expensive for the 2nd or 3rd date. It makes sense to me.

I had a few coffee dates for first dates. It's going to be $10 max, but most likely $5.

[Bucksandreds]

If you're getting what you want out of these dates (wink) $500 isn't bad. If you're spending $$$ and going home solo, you're probably wasting your money. $6000 per year is a lot of money. My point is that somethings only a waste of money if you're not getting the value out of it.

[dignam]

When I was in the dating scene, I always did a coffee date for first date.  Often I'd spend nothing (or just get a cup of water), but always under $10.  Over half of girls I went on a date with never got to a second date so why spend a bunch right away?  3rd date was usually dinner which is a bit more expensive but probably meant there was a chance it could go somewhere.

My gf and I have been together over 3 years now, and we have a running joke about a terrible date I had before I met her.  I think it was date #3 or #4, and we were out to dinner.  I had paid for everything up to that day.  The bill comes for dinner (around $50), she looks at it, then slides it over to me and says "that doesn't look to bad", simply expecting me to pay!  I was just dumbfounded at her attitude about it.  She would have been better off just asking me to pay.  I knew immediately I wanted nothing to do with that princess.  I don't even remember her name lol.

[slappy]

If you're getting what you want out of these dates (wink) $500 isn't bad. If you're spending $$$ and going home solo, you're probably wasting your money. $6000 per year is a lot of money. My point is that somethings only a waste of money if you're not getting the value out of it.

Wow. Really? He's wasting money if he's not getting laid? This is disgusting.

[slappy]

As I'm still young, I put aside 300$ per month. This is enough for 3 dates every month. In general, I don't spend a lot of money on girls but I know that if you want to date a good girl, you won't impress her by sitting in a park. I look for an elegant lady, which more probably will refuse to date a guy like me. I constantly read blogs, to learn some more about dating girl, to add something more to date, maybe charm her in some other way, if a restaurant isn't enough.

Who are you and why are you here? "If you want to date a good girl, you won't impress her by sitting in a park". WTF is that? That's actually the very definition of a "good" girl. Someone is impressed by the person they are with, not the material things or experiences that person can buy them.

[TomTX]

For dating, I would focus on dates that are based on a low cost activity like visiting a park or a free museum (I'd still make a donation)

I like to do that. We visited a small museum on Museum Day, and I turned the donation into a bit of an activity. They had one of those large "roll your coin down the huge funnel and watch it speed up as the diameter reduces" things that the kids love - so I "bought" the coin bucket behind the counter for $20 and had both my and other kids rolling a few hundred coins down that thing. It all ends up back at the museum (they just open the bottom and refill the coin bucket)

Those funnels are actually a reasonable approximation of how orbital mechanics work - the closer you are to a body, the faster your orbit is. To go to a lower orbit, you fire against your direction - which we would normally think of as slowing down. However, as you drop to a lower orbit, you actually go faster.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/museumday/museum-day-2020/

[js82]

How do you guys control your socializing and dating expenses? I'm over budget by $500 this month because of these two expenses.

Be yourself.  If other people aren't cool with the real you, find people who are.

Or more specifically, take the initiative and suggest activities that you find fun, but are relatively inexpensive.  Lots of people may find these things fun, even if they aren't their "normal" modes of socializing/dating.  If they're not open to fun, low-budget activities, they may not be your type of people.

Particularly for a date, the goal should be to do something that you enjoy and that you think your date will enjoy as well, so that you can enjoy it together.  Money is not a requirement in this equation.