Author Topic: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…  (Read 23087 times)

sistastache

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So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« on: July 10, 2015, 06:33:57 AM »
Of course, it wasn't just that, there were other things, but they all boiled down to my goal of FIRE and the fact that he didn't share that goal.  We had been dating/ living together for six months and our differences kept appearing… I thought he was a spendypants for wanting to eat out multiple nights a week, and he thought I was cheap for not. 

On our first date, I told him “ten years, and I’m out” of the hamster wheel.  He was ecstatic; he told me he had never met a girl like me, who spent money on investments instead of handbags.  He had just come to his own decisions that things needed to change and it was serendipitous that we had met at such a time.  He made some strides to pay off debts that he, like a security blanket, carried around for years.  Our future was bright indeed.

Fast forward a few months: I continued on with my attempts to optimize my own life style, but now it incorporated a bit of his as well in overlapping areas like groceries and utilities.  I discovered Aldi (it was like the heavens opened, a beam of light shone down on this magnificent world of savings, and the angels sang).  I immediately texted, “a week of groceries for $25?!?”. It was spectacular.  It was also the beginning of the end.

His response to this unbelievable treasure trove of inexpensive eats was “I don’t have time to talk about this”.  That night he came home and told me he didn't want to eat at home all the time, he needed to go out and socialize with his friends.

Of course, I understand.  I am an introvert and you, quite the opposite, please go and eat/booze to your heart’s content.  We were autonomous in our spending; only jointly covering the bills.  I realize being told how to spend one’s hard earned cash isn't the business of anyone else, and he likes his job, is quite good at it, and intent on climbing the corporate ladder.  He has no desire to quit, and doesn't understand why I feel differently.  There was one day, where I saw the light flash above his head- he had a day of work that was truly worthy of storming out and never looking back.  As he relived the moment, I could see the flashes of loathing in his eyes.  I softly mentioned, “You need FU money”.  He got it.  Yes!  For two days he understood.  As time wore on and worked its silken magic, that roaring inferno of understanding faded to back to illuminate more sucka consumer needs.

Last night was the end.  He came home to tell me his employer had recommended he go back to school for his masters.  He has already been more or less promised the position to take over the company once bossy leaves, so I don’t understand.  Why do you need an additional degree?  You already have the skills, and the job?  I inquire, “Is this something your company will foot the bill for”?  “No”.  But he assures me that the degree is essential and will show his dedication to his job/ company.  I quickly do the math… “Do you realize you could stay at your current position and be debt-free FIRE in less than ten years, rather than take on additional debt and force yourself work longer”?  He doesn't believe me.  “It’s impossible; I don’t want to discuss this”.

I realize I’m falling lower and lower on his list of priorities.  He’s a good person, but our values don’t match.  He is driven toward a long and successful career; I am biting leather daily to get through the pain of working one more day.  He and I will never see eye-to-eye.  So, another one bites the dust, and I continue on, toiling towards FIRE.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 06:44:07 AM by sistastache »

CletusMcGee

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 06:39:55 AM »
Quote
show his dedication to his job/ company

Facepunchable spending habits aside, loyalty to ones employer is a dealbreaker in its own right.

johnny847

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 06:41:55 AM »
If you take his reasons at face value, it seems like he wanted the benefits for FIRE but he didn't want to put in the work to get there.

Of course, in relationships, oftentimes the stated reason is not the real reason. And that is sometimes because he or she is not actually consciously aware of the real reason.

Sorry to hear your relationship is ending, but as you say, "He and I will never see eye-to-eye."  You'll find one who does!


On our first date, I told him “ten years, and I’m out” of the hamster wheel.  He was ecstatic; he told me he had never met a girl like me, who spent money on investments instead of handbags. He had just come to his own decisions that things needed to change and it was serendipitous that we had met at such a time.  He made some strides to pay off debts that he, like a security blanket, carried around for years.  Our future was bright indeed.

Hey I haven't either! Hmm actually maybe one person, but I haven't actually met her in person (she's the gf of a friend of mine), so she doesn't really count, even if we have talked online indirectly through my friend, haha.
Any woman who does spend money on investments instead of handbags wins points in my book.

cripzychiken

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 06:42:27 AM »
Good news - only 6 months and you kept everything separate.  Plus you showed him the light and it seems like he understood.

Bad news - he seems like he wants to follow a better MMM-ish life, but don't think it is possible in the long run or worth the effort.  Without you around, I'd like to know how many months until he is leasing a new car to "show off his success".

A bit of a shame, but hey, better to get out when you can rather than drag it out and end up resentful of each other.

Basenji

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 06:50:41 AM »
You should be proud how strong you are to keep to your convictions and know what you want. I'm sorry it didn't work out with him, but best to know early. Money style differences are the kiss of death. There's a man with a mustache out there making homemade beer and calculating his FI date hoping to meet a great woman...

golden1

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 07:06:54 AM »
Wait, you were ready to end a relationship based on his desire to gain a master's degree?  I feel like there is a lot of missing information here.  The key is this quote:

Quote
He has already been more or less promised the position to take over the company once bossy leaves

Why would his boss recommend he get another degree if he really felt strongly that he was the right candidate to take over?  "More or less promised" means fuck all in the corporate world.  Reading between the lines, I would guess that his boss is telling him, you get that degree, you get the job.  Otherwise, we start looking for other people.  It may be a matter of spending that money for a bigger payday down the road that lets him FI earlier. 

I would not let a rigid philosophy about a specific path to FI limit my choices in romantic relationships, but that is just me, I guess.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 07:24:44 AM »
I know a lot of happy married folks around these boards with even more  disparate attitudes about money than what's in this post. How was the chemistry otherwise?

Money is important to agree on, less so with separate finances. But it should never be the #1 factor in a relationship. You should actually be happy how many frank discussions about money you were able to have. I'd say your (ex?)SO is already well above the median in receptiveness, and given more time could have come around even more.

Plus, many, my DW included, hate taking about money at any time - but especially when exhausted after a shit day at work.

lackofstache

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 07:41:42 AM »
I'm w/ ol' Goblin Chief on this one. It doesn't sound bad enough to end something unless there were some really good other reasons. Hyper focus can make seem things seem worse than they are sometimes. Obviously before committing longterm it'd be wise to be together on some long term goals, but those may change a bit for the both of you.

Chris22

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 07:48:32 AM »
he likes his job, is quite good at it, and intent on climbing the corporate ladder.  He has no desire to quit...

There was one day, where I saw the light flash above his head- he had a day of work that was truly worthy of storming out and never looking back.  As he relived the moment, I could see the flashes of loathing in his eyes.  I softly mentioned, “You need FU money”.  He got it.  Yes!  For two days he understood.  As time wore on and worked its silken magic, that roaring inferno of understanding faded to back to illuminate more sucka consumer needs.

So overall he's happy with his job and career, but he has one bad day and you're pushing that he needs to quit?  Would you encourage this behavior in anything else, like a relationship?  So why would you encourage it here? 

SanDiegoAli

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 08:00:44 AM »
You've invested six months in this person and you state you're falling lower and lower on his priority list.  I see no problem with moving on. Six months in and you have to compromise so  much of your values?  Nope.

Isn't money one of the #1 things most couples fight about? 

Best wishes, I have no doubt you'll eventually find someone who shares the same goals that you do.

sistastache

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 08:07:22 AM »
Quote
show his dedication to his job/ company

Facepunchable spending habits aside, loyalty to ones employer is a dealbreaker in its own right.

Loyalty from the workforce is often misplaced.  So many people I know feel a sense of loyalty to their employer whom is outrageously abusing them, rather than keeping that loyalty for themselves. 

You should be proud how strong you are to keep to your convictions and know what you want. I'm sorry it didn't work out with him, but best to know early. Money style differences are the kiss of death. There's a man with a mustache out there making homemade beer and calculating his FI date hoping to meet a great woman...

Basenji, this was great!  Thank you!

Wait, you were ready to end a relationship based on his desire to gain a master's degree?  I feel like there is a lot of missing information here.  The key is this quote:

Quote
He has already been more or less promised the position to take over the company once bossy leaves

Why would his boss recommend he get another degree if he really felt strongly that he was the right candidate to take over?  "More or less promised" means fuck all in the corporate world.  Reading between the lines, I would guess that his boss is telling him, you get that degree, you get the job.  Otherwise, we start looking for other people.  It may be a matter of spending that money for a bigger payday down the road that lets him FI earlier. 

I would not let a rigid philosophy about a specific path to FI limit my choices in romantic relationships, but that is just me, I guess.

I may not have all the information on why bossy says he needs the degree.  This is just what he had told me.  I don't understand where this is coming from because his path for the last five years has been grooming him to take over.  He was just promoted this month, so now he is only a step below the goal.  The entire time he has been on this path bossy has always been of the airs that he will take over within five years.

I'm w/ ol' Goblin Chief on this one. It doesn't sound bad enough to end something unless there were some really good other reasons. Hyper focus can make seem things seem worse than they are sometimes. Obviously before committing longterm it'd be wise to be together on some long term goals, but those may change a bit for the both of you.

It was his pursuit of his goal to climb the corporate ladder that destroyed everything.  This is/ was his top priority to the point where there isn't time left in the day for anything else.  He leaves early, and comes home late... works weekends.  We got to be living like ships passing in the night, nary a word between us for the lack of time.

he likes his job, is quite good at it, and intent on climbing the corporate ladder.  He has no desire to quit...

There was one day, where I saw the light flash above his head- he had a day of work that was truly worthy of storming out and never looking back.  As he relived the moment, I could see the flashes of loathing in his eyes.  I softly mentioned, “You need FU money”.  He got it.  Yes!  For two days he understood.  As time wore on and worked its silken magic, that roaring inferno of understanding faded to back to illuminate more sucka consumer needs.

So overall he's happy with his job and career, but he has one bad day and you're pushing that he needs to quit?  Would you encourage this behavior in anything else, like a relationship?  So why would you encourage it here? 

I'm not sure how to answer this.  He tells me he likes his career, but in the same sentence tells me all the things he hates about it and wishes he could quit, but can't because of his debt.  I am just watching him get progressively more and more stressed by the workload.  When I try to discuss the debt, he shuts down.

James

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2015, 08:08:06 AM »
I realize I’m falling lower and lower on his list of priorities.  He’s a good person, but our values don’t match.  He is driven toward a long and successful career; I am biting leather daily to get through the pain of working one more day.  He and I will never see eye-to-eye.  So, another one bites the dust, and I continue on, toiling towards FIRE.


You are already not feeling like a priority over the career after just 6 months, and your values don't match, sounds like you made the right call. If you don't want to be with someone on the big "career track" then better to get out now before he gets started on his masters and wants to depend on you for help. Sorry it didn't work out, but you gave it 6 months, which is plenty of time to give it a shot and try to make it work. Doesn't matter how great any chemistry is, the chemistry changes, but fundamental values and attitudes change less easily. Good luck finding the right one, and enjoy the search!

mlejw6

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2015, 08:19:49 AM »
I'm not sure why people are criticizing you for ending this relationship. It sounds like you were supportive of him until you realized you couldn't support him anymore. That's all it takes to end it. You told him your goals, he seemed interested, but in the end his career sounds more important to him than you.

You did the right thing. Now you can find a good mustachian boyfriend!

Basenji

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2015, 08:25:05 AM »
I know a lot of happy married folks around these boards with even more  disparate attitudes about money than what's in this post. How was the chemistry otherwise?

I hear you, but I assumed sistastache was already unplugged emotionally. I know that people could (in theory) make it work with different money styles, but it's gotta be very difficult. I do agree one should not be too rigid, but she seemed to say they were too different. So, sistastache are you looking for reasons to stay or are you asking for confirmation you want to leave? Or just looking for support?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 08:35:20 AM by Basenji »

DecD

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2015, 08:33:14 AM »
Sounds like it wasn't the right relationship for you.

I will add this though-

I actually found MMM through a friend's facebook post 3 years ago.  I had just finished my PhD.  I was a month away from starting my full-time job.    But in 2012, I had JUST FINISHED a 6-year marathon effort to get that degree.  I wanted to use it.  I expected to always want to use it.  I had work ambition and was very excited about my contributions to my field and where I would go.  Why would I want to retire young?

In short- the time was wrong.

Fast-forward two years to last June.  Same friend on facebook linked to MMM.  And the time was now right.  Despite my ambition and enthusiasm, the magic was already gone (after just two years alas!) and the concept of early retirement made total sense.  (Luckily, lifestyle inflation stayed in check for us, and as naturally frugal folks, we were well along the path already- we're only a few years out now.)

I guess what I'm saying is- someone excited about their contributions to their field, and happy to be working, and ambitious to do a great job and move up- heck if you can do that AND be frugal for a decade, it's the best of both worlds.  Then you're happy while saving/accumulating, and then have all the freedom in the world to make other choices ones you hit FI. 

There's no requirement to hate work in order to pursue FIRE.  I'm super glad I had years of work-enthusiasm during the saving phase before realizing I wanted out- instead of a 10-year slog, I have a 3-ish year slog.  Or, if I can manage it, I'll make a change at work that'll re-energize me for another couple of years so I can ENJOY the accumulation phase instead of wishing it away.

I'm sure there's more to the story than you're telling us, but the road to FIRE doesn't have to be 10 years of misery followed by the clouds magically lifting on a paradise of freedom.  I want to love my job while I'm saving.  I also love school and have 2 masters and a PhD, just cause school is fun.  Sure, I could be retired by now if I'd nose-to-the-grindstoned it...but as it is, I'll be FI by 40.  Fifteen years of happy accumulation beats 10 years of miserable accumulation every time.  I wouldn't trade my degrees, experiences, wisdom, contributions for an earlier exit.

In other words- from the short description you've given us, it sounds like he was receptive to the idea of FIRE, but wanted to grow, contribute, and enjoy his work in the meantime.  That's not such a bad thing, in itself.

sistastache

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2015, 08:39:36 AM »
I know a lot of happy married folks around these boards with even more  disparate attitudes about money than what's in this post. How was the chemistry otherwise?

I hear you, but I assumed sistastache was already unplugged emotionally. Even so, I know that people could make it work with different money styles. I do agree one should not be too rigid, but she seemed to say they were too different. So, sistastache are you looking for reasons to stay or are you asking for confirmation you want to leave? Or just looking for support?

Basenji- we talked a bit more this morning, and it is over.  He is outwardly saying that he is choosing his career.   His initial career in a different industry didn't work out, and he told me that he feels like he is just starting his career because he has finally found what he can be successful doing, so he is going full force to get to the top.  It feels like there is some ego wrapped up in being the best in this job because his last career didn't work out.  I'm not going to be with someone that is outwardly telling me that I am not a priority. 
So, my post was because I was feeling surprised, when i read MMM posts about ruining marriages, I thought to myself, no way... those people are so extreme.  That doesn't really happen in life.  But here we are.  So, looking for support more than anything else.

Thanks to everyone for your kind words and wishes of a Mustachian Mustache :)

Erica/NWEdible

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2015, 08:41:56 AM »
Congratulations. Time to crack open a bottle of wine and toast your own backbone.

Katsplaying

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2015, 08:47:21 AM »
In the immortal works of Dan Savage: DTMFA

(dump the m-f already)

Couples fight over money more than anything else. If the values are too far apart, compromise becomes difficult and even if reached, problematic as compromise generally means NO ONE gets what they want.

I have always earned more than partners, hence would take the financial reins when we moved in together. I got 3 different men out of debt while they were with me (not with MY money of course) and improved the financial status of a couple others. Grateful? Appreciative? Oh hell no. And they never understood why I'd flip out when they spent $200 on the latest greatest whatever when there was a perfectly serviceable one in the garage. Resentments would build and I'd bail.

The truth is someone else will come along some time and I'll try again. My current relationship is part-time and will never become full-time as we are WAY too different, independent, and strong-willed to be together on a daily or live-in basis. I live my happy joyful life, I strive to get closer to my daily goals so I can get closer to the real goal: FIRE.

ashem

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2015, 08:48:57 AM »
I discovered Aldi (it was like the heavens opened, a beam of light shone down on this magnificent world of savings, and the angels sang).  I immediately texted, “a week of groceries for $25?!?”. It was spectacular. 

Ha, I discovered Aldi a couple of weeks ago and had a similar near religious experience. Sorry about the breakup.

Basenji

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2015, 08:49:17 AM »
Sistastache, best wishes to you. DecD makes a great point that FIRE goals and loving to work aren't exclusive. But knowing yourself and being able to set boundaries is important. Does HE want to be together?

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2015, 09:11:28 AM »
Don't rule out the extroverts! I don't know why the world now thinks the only way to socialize is by doing things that make you broke and fat...last century the best socializing was done on the front porch (or the back ;-)

2ndTimer

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2015, 09:39:01 AM »
I once broke up a relationship because he insisted that he needed a new car because his old perfectly running but unfashionable car might quit any day and leave him stranded.  Also this was just the right time because he could get the car loan at zero interest.  Of course this wasn't the real reason just the moment when I saw that we didn't think alike at all and that I didn't think it was worth the effort to try to convert him.  We just didn't care for each other enough to do the work.  Keeping Mr. Almost Right around just blocks the path for Mr. Absolutely Right when he shows up. 

Ditchmonkey

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2015, 10:44:43 AM »
Wait, you were ready to end a relationship based on his desire to gain a master's degree?  I feel like there is a lot of missing information here. 

I don't know what the confusion is. He is making an enormously expensive decision that will delay the goal of early retirement for years. Huge deal.

AZDude

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2015, 10:47:31 AM »
To play devil's advocate here, the master's degree was just delaying *his* retirement, not yours.

Really, though, I see the point that you two were just not on the same page, so it was probably for the best.

Thegoblinchief

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2015, 11:11:49 AM »
It was his pursuit of his goal to climb the corporate ladder that destroyed everything.  This is/ was his top priority to the point where there isn't time left in the day for anything else.  He leaves early, and comes home late... works weekends.  We got to be living like ships passing in the night, nary a word between us for the lack of time.

Okay, that completely changes things. Way to go washing your hands of him :)

Jersey Brett

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2015, 01:00:12 PM »
I feel you. I had to split (very) recently for lifestyle differences as well.

Me "I'm out of the rat race in 1-3 years. "
Her " I'm going deeper into the corporate world, financing partying and international vacations and buying a house to top off my $70,000 school debt. You need to make more money too."

We will find the right person. Patience sister, and take time to grieve the relationship.

Insanity

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So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2015, 01:33:48 PM »
Of course, if someone does make you a priority, then you will probably see in them some stalker material :)

In all seriousness, my wife and I have a similar discussion.  And I cannot explain to her (just as the guy may not be explaining to you - or maybe he is different), there are times work is a priority because work is paying the bills right now and I am wanting to position myself for my family to be able to enjoy as much as possible later.

That does not mean I won't be there when needed.  That does not mean that we won't do things or I won't take time off.

All it means is some nights I might have to work later.  Some times I will have to travel for work.  Some times, i will have to forgo a dinner with friends.

There really is nothing wrong with that.  If you would be okay with a boyfriend as a first responder, then you have to be ok with that out if someone not in that field.


Because even though society (and I) put more value into a first responder than an office person...  Their (and my) work ethic still require me to do what needs to be done when the job is needed to be done.

lackofstache

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2015, 01:42:03 PM »
Quote
It was his pursuit of his goal to climb the corporate ladder that destroyed everything.  This is/ was his top priority to the point where there isn't time left in the day for anything else.  He leaves early, and comes home late... works weekends.  We got to be living like ships passing in the night, nary a word between us for the lack of time.


The further explanations make all the difference, it seems like a wise choice for you. I wish you well & be happy this sort of thing is surfacing now.


Blonde Lawyer

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2015, 03:22:26 PM »
I only see one possible flaw to this.  Some jobs are "up or out" - you can't stay in the same role making the same money for years.  Some jobs require a higher level degree to move up.  It is stupid that they do but you can't change your employer's requirements unless you find a new employer or work for yourself.  You agree he needed to work some more years before he FIRED so he would need a job.

My husband's kind of in the same boat in that to move up in his job he needs a degree and he will be there long enough, even with a goal of FIRE that he would benefit from getting it.  He's getting it one class at a time, paid in cash, from an in-state school, online.

Getting a degree can be part of FIRE plans, particularly if you will lose your ability to move up and can't stay in your current job without one.

sistastache

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2015, 05:15:36 PM »
Hi everyone, thank you for all of your inputs.  These thoughts have definitely led me to give some more thought to my situation, but based off the conversations I have had with my partner I am feeling like this is the right decision.  He is telling me that his focus and priority is not our relationship; there isn't a time frame on the horizon of at least two- three years where he would potentially be in a mental place to get back to the relationship coming being a priority.  With this time frame, I know enough of myself that I will be miserable and it is unfair for me to deal with that, and unfair to ask him to deal with the inevitable arguments that arise from the neglect in the relationship.  So no, he isn't fighting to keep the relationship... which is really the telling factor here. 
Separately, I completely see that a degree can be great and necessary.  Beyond not understanding why his company is all of a sudden recommending it, I don't have an issue with him pursuing higher education.  It truly seems like he does not desire to continue his education beyond this requirement.  He had a miserable time achieving his BS.  My issue really lies in that it is just an additional thing to demand his attention and would have further stressed the time we would be able to spend together.  And while he is getting a masters degree doesn't affect my ability to FIRE, it would have changed the plan of what life looks like after I FIRE.  He would ultimately be adding new debt and to his existing, further exacerbating our financial status (our respective individual net worth is already significantly unbalanced) which leaves me fearful of resentment creeping in. 
So thank you to all the mustaches that have chimed in and offered support and advice.  I look forward to seeing new posts overtake this one and I shall slog forward, beyond this wretchedness.

Cwadda

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2015, 05:55:48 PM »
Honestly it doesn't sound like MMM ruined your relationship; it sounds more like it saved you from a bad relationship.

sistastache

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2015, 05:59:15 PM »
Honestly it doesn't sound like MMM ruined your relationship; it sounds more like it saved you from a bad relationship.
Lol, I think you're right!

MoonShadow

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2015, 06:06:01 PM »
"More or less promised" means fuck all in the corporate world.  Reading between the lines, I would guess that his boss is telling him, you get that degree, you get the job.

I agree. In my experience, the corporate world is more about politics and good graces.  So if it is spoken to you, it's probably a lie; and if it's in writing, it can still be changed.  Beyond that, you can still FIRE without him chasing your path.  I work in a job that I love, but strive towards financial independence because I know things can change rather quickly, and if this job turns sour I don't want to need to find another job quickly.  Since you hate your job, keep plugging along as you are; you don't need him to play along.

Still, I'm sure there is more to this than can be shared, so I can't make a recommendation with any confidence.  It's also possible that his hot-cold perspectives on FIRE will prove toxic to your own plans.

Cwadda

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2015, 06:47:48 PM »
Honestly it doesn't sound like MMM ruined your relationship; it sounds more like it saved you from a bad relationship.
Lol, I think you're right!

I didn't read over the whole thread, but IMO Mustachianism is just another value that can be a dealbreaker for some. I read it like you're saying MMM ruined your relationship rather than your goals didn't align.

Seems like you're looking at it all from somewhat of an objective standpoint, which helps contribute to your personal growth!

Just my $.02

Dorje

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2015, 07:09:47 PM »
Prioritizing your job over relationships and families is a sickness imo, and runs rampant in America... it's pretty much expected of many employees and yet there is no loyalty between employees or employer anymore. I'd never date someone who thinks work is more important than his family/significant other.

doubled85

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2015, 08:26:48 PM »
My couple of pennies:

This is someone that you've just (relatively) started dating versus having been married for 10 years with three kids. Point being, it's easier to break off now and find someone that is more on your page that trying to make a square peg fit a round hole, if you will. Indeed there are couples that are married that are on different ground that somehow make it work but if you have a choice, no reason in not exercising the option. Need to do what's best for you.

risky4me

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2015, 02:15:01 AM »
OK my two cents-
As you said, 'Of course, it wasn't just that, there were other things' and only you can know when you need to move on, but one of the main reasons my first marriage ended(and there were other things as well) was that I wanted to plan for our future but my partner at that time just wouldn't ever want to discuss it. My present (and last wife) and I have always enjoyed planning our future and watching as we met our goals. The process of planning and working together has been a very significant boost to our relationship- we are proud of what we accomplished together and it happened because we were both on the same page. It really does help to have similar goals. Don't settle for less than you deserve!

The_path_less_taken

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2015, 05:59:52 AM »
Either someone 'gets' you, and your goals, and you are a team to the point that you feel confident and content for the long haul....or they don't.

I've worked 18+ hour days before, trying to save money for a down payment on rental property. But that didn't mean I didn't make time for my SO at the time. But he was pissy about the extra hours, and resented them and the gig, to the point that he'd undermine things. "Oh, I knew you'd be working late so I ordered pizza delivery."

"Again? There's food in the fridge that just had to be stir fried."

"Yeah, but I was watching the game."

Ok.

In your case, it's not the degree, or his "I love my job!/until I hate my job/but my job is all anyway" 'tude.

It's that you didn't feel cherished to the point that you felt "we'll get through this, because we love each other".

You very well may love him, and he you. But that doesn't mean you could make it for the long haul, with someone who is committed primarily to the consumer sucka lifestyle.

Congrats on being wise enough to see that. And good hunting: they must be out there somewhere, logically, because they're on this board, right?   ;-0

Rural

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2015, 07:54:21 AM »
So sorry you're going through this. I think you're (both) quite right to end it for reasons much deeper than the financial divide.


When you find the right partner, one who prioritizes you and your relationship, the same decisions may feel very, very different. With the right partner, if he comes to need (not flippantly want) a change that will affect your mutual future as profoundly as this master's degree would, you both will feel the difference. Making a change that affects your future so profoundly (I'd call it a sacrifice except my own situation* doesn't feel like sacrifice to me) is a mutual thing or it doesn't work.




*For context, my husband and I were on track to FIRE in 5 years, but his job was so miserable it was making him sick, and he'd already switched jobs several times. We concluded the problem was endemic to the field (teaching high school) and got him out; he's going back to school so he can work locally rather than going back to the heavy travel, high level of field work scientific career he had before - too old, and too much time apart. This will set us back an unknown number of years, and likely will mean our retirement isn't "early" at all. But this is a mutual decision, one I wish we'd pulled the trigger on at least a year earlier.

Tabaxus

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2015, 10:41:29 AM »
MMM didn't ruin your relationship.  Your relationship was doomed, MMM just helped you come to that realization more quickly than you otherwise might have, and saved you time in the process.

Sam E

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2015, 11:36:28 AM »
Prioritizing your job over relationships and families is a sickness imo, and runs rampant in America... it's pretty much expected of many employees and yet there is no loyalty between employees or employer anymore. I'd never date someone who thinks work is more important than his family/significant other.

I agree. I was in a job at one point where weather was not allowed as an excuse for missing work. Have to drive on unplowed streets with 6 inches of snow and 2 inches of ice? Too bad, you better make it in on time! I once got my job threatened because I didn't want to drive in literal blizzard conditions. The sentiment there is basically, "This job is more important than your life, and don't you dare suggest otherwise."

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2015, 11:58:50 AM »
For those that don't get the reference, there was an MMM post on the blog from a writer saying that MMM was ruining her relationship.  I think that's the point of the title and reference.

LouLou

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2015, 10:01:52 AM »
The early part of a relationship should just be to figure out whether you fit together. It sounds like you don't and there's nothing wrong with either of you.

I have a career that can be very intense at times. But the intense times are when the work is the most thrilling. Long nights, weekends, all game. I could not be in a relationship with someone who felt that they weren't a priority when I was busy. Nothing wrong with quality time being your love language, and nothing wrong with liking an intense career. But those people don't belong together.

Case

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2015, 10:29:23 AM »
This post comes across as a little negative... not trying to be, but maybe just consider another perspective.  Generally I think your choice to get out of a relationship due to FIRE-alignment is a decent one:

From your post it sounds like the early FIRE philosophy defines you not just financially but deeply in many aspects of your life.  Although FIRE is very important to enjoyment of life and important place in a relationship to have some agreement, it is not the most important thing; it is a component of a bigger picture.  I wonder if you and/or he has tunnel vision.  Retiring early is the way to enjoy life for some people, but not for everyone.  Other people get fulfillment in life by having long, hard-earned careers; bad days where you want to quit are part of that, but persistence is important. 

My guess is that there is a more deeply rooted disconnect here, where lack of financial alignment is an (important) symptom.  If I deeply loved my significant other but she didn't want to FIRE, I'd find a way to split up finances or otherwise make things work such that I could FIRE and she could have her career.  I wonder if your boyfriend/ex is a little discussed with your obsession with FIRE, which apparently was discussed as early as the first date.

Of course, it wasn't just that, there were other things, but they all boiled down to my goal of FIRE and the fact that he didn't share that goal.  We had been dating/ living together for six months and our differences kept appearing… I thought he was a spendypants for wanting to eat out multiple nights a week, and he thought I was cheap for not. 

On our first date, I told him “ten years, and I’m out” of the hamster wheel.  He was ecstatic; he told me he had never met a girl like me, who spent money on investments instead of handbags.  He had just come to his own decisions that things needed to change and it was serendipitous that we had met at such a time.  He made some strides to pay off debts that he, like a security blanket, carried around for years.  Our future was bright indeed.

Fast forward a few months: I continued on with my attempts to optimize my own life style, but now it incorporated a bit of his as well in overlapping areas like groceries and utilities.  I discovered Aldi (it was like the heavens opened, a beam of light shone down on this magnificent world of savings, and the angels sang).  I immediately texted, “a week of groceries for $25?!?”. It was spectacular.  It was also the beginning of the end.

His response to this unbelievable treasure trove of inexpensive eats was “I don’t have time to talk about this”.  That night he came home and told me he didn't want to eat at home all the time, he needed to go out and socialize with his friends.

Of course, I understand.  I am an introvert and you, quite the opposite, please go and eat/booze to your heart’s content.  We were autonomous in our spending; only jointly covering the bills.  I realize being told how to spend one’s hard earned cash isn't the business of anyone else, and he likes his job, is quite good at it, and intent on climbing the corporate ladder.  He has no desire to quit, and doesn't understand why I feel differently.  There was one day, where I saw the light flash above his head- he had a day of work that was truly worthy of storming out and never looking back.  As he relived the moment, I could see the flashes of loathing in his eyes.  I softly mentioned, “You need FU money”.  He got it.  Yes!  For two days he understood.  As time wore on and worked its silken magic, that roaring inferno of understanding faded to back to illuminate more sucka consumer needs.

Last night was the end.  He came home to tell me his employer had recommended he go back to school for his masters.  He has already been more or less promised the position to take over the company once bossy leaves, so I don’t understand.  Why do you need an additional degree?  You already have the skills, and the job?  I inquire, “Is this something your company will foot the bill for”?  “No”.  But he assures me that the degree is essential and will show his dedication to his job/ company.  I quickly do the math… “Do you realize you could stay at your current position and be debt-free FIRE in less than ten years, rather than take on additional debt and force yourself work longer”?  He doesn't believe me.  “It’s impossible; I don’t want to discuss this”.

I realize I’m falling lower and lower on his list of priorities.  He’s a good person, but our values don’t match.  He is driven toward a long and successful career; I am biting leather daily to get through the pain of working one more day.  He and I will never see eye-to-eye.  So, another one bites the dust, and I continue on, toiling towards FIRE.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 10:32:28 AM by Case »

hope2retire

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2015, 10:30:24 AM »
Typically employer(manager) who have decided on some replacement for a top position, may have to provide justification on why such a person was chosen. At that point they do not want any stones unturned compared to the rest of them to put him on a pedestal and provide that justification. One way is to get a Masters. Most of the time employer pays if there is already a policy for education reimbursement. So question is do they have one.

Now if he loves his job and want to work for the rest of the life why not let him do it. Dince you have your independent Fire goal how would that affect you. Just curious on what would be the rough points if individuals in working-couple have diff fire plans?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 10:44:38 AM by hope2retire »

Gone Fishing

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2015, 12:22:24 PM »
Good call.  Having to "make it work" only 6 months in is way too soon! You should still be on cloud nine at that point in a relationship.  Heck, my wife and I dated for 2.5 years and were married for one or two more before we had our first serious "disagreement". 

Fundamentaly different views on how much time to invest in your relationship never end well.  This is a disaster waiting to happen, especially if kids ever come into the picture.   

Just like so many things in life, FIRE sounds great to a lot of people. They may even make some steps towards it, but when it comes down to it, it is just another passing interest, before they return to business as usual (I've got several friends in this camp). 

Dorje

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2015, 08:56:03 AM »
Prioritizing your job over relationships and families is a sickness imo, and runs rampant in America... it's pretty much expected of many employees and yet there is no loyalty between employees or employer anymore. I'd never date someone who thinks work is more important than his family/significant other.

I agree. I was in a job at one point where weather was not allowed as an excuse for missing work. Have to drive on unplowed streets with 6 inches of snow and 2 inches of ice? Too bad, you better make it in on time! I once got my job threatened because I didn't want to drive in literal blizzard conditions. The sentiment there is basically, "This job is more important than your life, and don't you dare suggest otherwise."

I have 2 step-sisters living in Germany and I have worked in Denmark before, the culture there seems so much healthier wrt work/life balance. Not only that but people are much more upfront and honest, very little backstabbing and fake corporate smiles compared to the US.

I think many or most people in the US are so worried about their finances and their job they put it above their own family and their own relationships, this seems very backward to me. We should work to live, not live to work.


scrubbyfish

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #47 on: July 14, 2015, 09:28:56 AM »
I don’t want to discuss this”.

This was the biggest of the red flags. This is the most important piece you saved yourself from.

“It’s impossible

That's the second biggest.

He doesn't believe me.

That's the third biggest.

rocketpj

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2015, 12:29:43 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, 6 months is still qualifies as a 'fling' and shouldn't be a complicated split.  It isn't working, the shine is off, it's better for both people to move on.

Conflict about money at 6 months is a gigantic red flag.  It's a red flag at 6 years.

riverffashion

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Re: So MMM actually did ruin my relationship…
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2015, 12:47:02 PM »
As far as I'm concerned, 6 months is still qualifies as a 'fling' and shouldn't be a complicated split.  It isn't working, the shine is off, it's better for both people to move on.

Conflict about money at 6 months is a gigantic red flag.  It's a red flag at 6 years.


This . 6 months imo is barely a relationship. Barely getting go know a person . I do not remotely expect to be prioritized or to prioritize someone I am dating at six months . independence is a wonderful thing .....
My sweetheart hav been together 6 yrs and he is paycheck to paycheck, spendy, and about to be making payments ( forever?) for a loan to start a business.
Our finances are separate. They hav always been separate. He has not yet discovered for himself this insanity, and really not my concern. I can only tell someone about Mustachianism and FIRE before I must accept they are doing there own thing .
I will be retiring early and he probably won't and that's fine . we both hav many of our own things going on as is, and time and space is lovely .
B
We are very much in love, hav grown together over time, and I cannot imagine ending what we hav over our financial differences .
At six months, we put a label on it . up until then we were dating and having fun . taking things slow has been lovely .