So how could we tell? And there seems to be nothing we can do about it.

[greenmimama]

Our 2003 Honda Odyssey had a small recall and we took it in this morning, and now they called us and said the alternator is out, needs to be replaced, the recall had nothing to do with the alternator, and we have never had trouble with it before? but seriously.

It really makes you wonder, it was taken to our local Honda dealer.

We are stuck, we live 25miles from town have 3 children still in carseats and I can't go pick up my DH because I don't have the carseats, the van won't start to drive it home or to take it to our other mechanic that works on it. A refurbished alternator is $450 from them plus the labor to put it in. 

I hate cars when they don't work and need fixing, Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

[MooseOutFront]

Ouch.  Obviously you would never take it to a dealership for a repair, and then it just suddenly dies while it's there?  I would be thinking those sumbitches are pulling one over on me, but logistically I can see how you're stuck with this particular dose of bad luck.

[greenmimama]

I know we have this awesome mechanic who fixes it as a side hustle, he is so good and charges nothing compared to what a dealership charges, it's so frustrating.

[Thegoblinchief]

$450 seems really steep even just for the part. O'Reilly has the same thing for $140:

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search.oap?keyword=alternator&year=2003&make=Honda&model=Odyssey&vi=1429310

Was the battery light on? If the alternator was failing, the battery light would have been on for several hours before the battery finally ran down.

Even with a completely dead alternator, you could hook it up to DH's car with jumpers and charge the battery (give it 20-30 minutes with the cables still attached).

Logistics with the kids make it harder but don't get taken for a ride. I'm skeptical they have even diagnosed the problem correctly. The car WILL start if the alternator "just" died. The battery should have enough residual juice to power the car for an hour or so with all accessories turned off.

Edit: call your preferred mechanic and ask for a quote. Even if you have to pay for a tow (~$75 typically), you'll probably net out ahead.

Good luck!

[OldDogNewTrick]

Do you have AAA? I'd move heaven and earth to tow that car out of the dealer shop. If I had to walk I wouldn't let them fix that. They have you in a bad spot and they know that. Way too much coincidence. Time to call in favors from family and friends for rides. I'd be pretty verbal, start with the shop manager then move to the dealer.

[greenmimama]

I am talking to my DH about getting it towed.

The battery light was not on and he drove it in to the dealer this morning.

[Eric]

Do you have AAA? I'd move heaven and earth to tow that car out of the dealer shop. If I had to walk I wouldn't let them fix that. They have you in a bad spot and they know that. Way too much coincidence. Time to call in favors from family and friends for rides. I'd be pretty verbal, start with the shop manager then move to the dealer.

Your AAA tow guy will also know a good local mechanic. The one our guy referred us to was fantastic, and way cheaper.

I wouldn't count on that.  I had the exact opposite experience when my fuel pump died.

[GuitarStv]

You brought a functioning vehicle in to the mechanic.  If you believe that something shady is going on, you don't have to pay the mechanic to fix something that the vehicle wasn't brought in for.

[MooseOutFront]

Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and run the risk of major inconvenience and even not much cost savings just to make sure those guys are effing me in the A and getting away with it.

[luigi49]

Hard to trust a mechanic.   Brought my car the other day the mechanic told me I need a new battery and he can help me now to see what battery I need.  I took it to another shop and said my battery will last another 4 years.

[DoubleDown]

If I'm correctly understanding the scenario you described, then you drove a vehicle that was working perfectly well into the dealer for an unrelated matter (the recall), and now the dealer claims the vehicle needs a new and expensive alternator and won't start at all.

If that's the case, I would (politely) discuss with them that the vehicle was dropped off in working order, so if it is now mysteriously not working after being in their hands, they likely did something to it and need to put it back in working order at no cost to me. I mean, I've paraphrased here, but that would be the gist of the conversation, and I would insist that they fix it right away so you can drive it the hell out of there. You've got to do it with honey, not vinegar, but forceful nonetheless.

A great negotiating/influencing tactic is, "I brought the car here and it was working just fine. What can we do to get my car working again without me replacing the alternator?" This puts the burden on them to find solutions, and if it's not a solution you like, you can point out why and just keep repeating the question until you get a satisfactory answer. If you are getting no help, then it's probably time to drop hints about escalating the matter -- to the dealership, to corporate, to the media, the better business bureau, state attorney general -- whatever it takes.

[Rebecca Stapler]

If I'm correctly understanding the scenario you described, then you drove a vehicle that was working perfectly well into the dealer for an unrelated matter (the recall), and now the dealer claims the vehicle needs a new and expensive alternator and won't start at all.

If that's the case, I would (politely) discuss with them that the vehicle was dropped off in working order, so if it is now mysteriously not working after being in their hands, they likely did something to it and need to put it back in working order at no cost to me. I mean, I've paraphrased here, but that would be the gist of the conversation, and I would insist that they fix it right away so you can drive it the hell out of there. You've got to do it with honey, not vinegar, but forceful nonetheless.

A great negotiating/influencing tactic is, "I brought the car here and it was working just fine. What can we do to get my car working again without me replacing the alternator?" This puts the burden on them to find solutions, and if it's not a solution you like, you can point out why and just keep repeating the question until you get a satisfactory answer. If you are getting no help, then it's probably time to drop hints about escalating the matter -- to the dealership, to corporate, to the media, the better business bureau, state attorney general -- whatever it takes.

I agree with this approach. It is so shady that it doesn't work after their "repair"

[Rube]

A bad alternator doesn't necessarily give you an indicator light and it's not really a gradual decline. It can work one day and you might notice your headlights flickering the next.
When the brushes are worn, it's it's pretty much done. Mine started going out on an hour long trip at midnight to do a police ride along with a buddy in the next city. I barely made it home in the morning.

Usually if you look at it in the dark you'll see some arcing inside. Either that or the bearing went.

I assume the $450 is a new Honda part. Last time I did one they rebuilt it for $150. I think I even got the same one back. They even sandblasted the casing.

Find an alternator or auto electric shop and find someone to do this through them.

[Rube]

Oh and if you use the dealer ask if the $450 includes a refund on the core. The old one usually gets rebuilt. That will at least make it seem like you know what you're talking about. But you should ask to see the old one too.

[vern]

Avoid the stealerships for non-warranty work at all costs!

[greaper007]

An alternator is also one of the easiest repairs you can do.   Take off the serpentine belt and there usually just 2 bolts holding it on.   I see a bunch of rebuilt ones on ebay for $140 down to $50.    Even if you have to take it to a mechanic you shouldn't have to pay more than $200 total.

There's some things I take our cars to the dealership for.   Like dealing with any of the hybrid systems on our Civic.   I did a brake fluid exchange once where I thought I might destroy a $500 part because of the goofy system that car has.   $100 every three years is fine with me and few people but the dealership know how to deal with that.    For something like an alternator though, any shade tree mechanic can fix that.   Find someone local that's cheap.

[dcheesi]

Avoid the stealerships for non-warranty work at all costs!

Problem being that this was a recall, which is supposed to be free but only when done by a dealer.

[Thegoblinchief]

An alternator is also one of the easiest repairs you can do.

Agreed, unless it's on a weird part of the engine or tucked underneath/behind shit.

Changed my wife's alternator once in a parking lot.

[jba302]

Even with a completely dead alternator, you could hook it up to DH's car with jumpers and charge the battery (give it 20-30 minutes with the cables still attached).

This really wouldn't matter, if the alternator is dead the car isn't going to make it far. If the battery is "dead" then a jump would work because the alternator would keep it alive. I quote dead because of the difference between "won't start dead" and "really truly this thing is dead" dead.

[greaper007]

Even with a completely dead alternator, you could hook it up to DH's car with jumpers and charge the battery (give it 20-30 minutes with the cables still attached).

This really wouldn't matter, if the alternator is dead the car isn't going to make it far. If the battery is "dead" then a jump would work because the alternator would keep it alive. I quote dead because of the difference between "won't start dead" and "really truly this thing is dead" dead.

Yes, back when I was a broke student I drove a car around with a dying alternator for about a month waiting for my next paycheck to fix it.   I had one of those portable battery jumpers and for a while I could just jump it after it sat for a little bit.   Eventually the car died at an intersection  and I couldn't get it moving again.  Was far from home so I got it towed and fixed for I think $190 at some Florida backwoods shop.

[AccidentalMiser]

Do you have AAA? I'd move heaven and earth to tow that car out of the dealer shop. If I had to walk I wouldn't let them fix that. They have you in a bad spot and they know that. Way too much coincidence. Time to call in favors from family and friends for rides. I'd be pretty verbal, start with the shop manager then move to the dealer.

This.  Even if you don't have AAA, maybe your "side hustle" guy can arrange a cheap tow?

[zarfus]

A bad alternator doesn't necessarily give you an indicator light and it's not really a gradual decline.

This.  I once went golfing, played a great game.  Got in the car and it wouldn't start. Bad alternator.  The fact that it's a dealership does seem suspicious...others would look at it as convenient :) Better than dying in the middle of the road!!

I would also fix it myself -- probably right in their parking lot :D

[adam]

If I'm correctly understanding the scenario you described, then you drove a vehicle that was working perfectly well into the dealer for an unrelated matter (the recall), and now the dealer claims the vehicle needs a new and expensive alternator and won't start at all.

If that's the case, I would (politely) discuss with them that the vehicle was dropped off in working order, so if it is now mysteriously not working after being in their hands, they likely did something to it and need to put it back in working order at no cost to me. I mean, I've paraphrased here, but that would be the gist of the conversation, and I would insist that they fix it right away so you can drive it the hell out of there. You've got to do it with honey, not vinegar, but forceful nonetheless.

A great negotiating/influencing tactic is, "I brought the car here and it was working just fine. What can we do to get my car working again without me replacing the alternator?" This puts the burden on them to find solutions, and if it's not a solution you like, you can point out why and just keep repeating the question until you get a satisfactory answer. If you are getting no help, then it's probably time to drop hints about escalating the matter -- to the dealership, to corporate, to the media, the better business bureau, state attorney general -- whatever it takes.

I agree with this approach. It is so shady that it doesn't work after their "repair"

I did exactly this at a Toyota dealership after my Sequoia lit up like a christmas tree when I went to pick it up after routine maintenance.  They wanted something like $4800 to fix it.  I said it broke when it was in your hands, you fix it, they said they don't give a shit, take it or leave it.

They did end up comping us a part that basically cut the repair in half which just makes me think that they knew they were at fault. I vowed never to do business with them ever again.  I sold the truck the next week.  We were in a pretty rural area at the time so we didn't have much else choice mechanic wise.

[TomTX]

Here's a howto: http://www.bukisa.com/articles/449063_change-your-alternator-on-your-honda-odyssey

For an experienced mechanic, this should be a 15-minute job.

Hell, even if you need to buy the tools - it's cheaper to DIY in their parking lot.

[sleepyguy]

So glad I got a trusted mechanic who is super local.  Stealerships are horrible and overpriced.  Funny our friend who actually owns a Honda/Acura/Subaru dealership tells us to go elsewhere (after the warranty is up), LOL!

[CarDude]

As others have said, the alternator is one of the easiest engine parts to change on most vehicles. I'd check YouTube; there's probably a guide for your Odyssey.

Something to keep in mind for the future however, is that the gen. Ody you drive has weak transmissions, and you might have to deal with a 3k repair on that soon.

[DollarBill]

A bad alternator doesn't necessarily give you an indicator light and it's not really a gradual decline. It can work one day and you might notice your headlights flickering the next.
When the brushes are worn, it's it's pretty much done. Mine started going out on an hour long trip at midnight to do a police ride along with a buddy in the next city. I barely made it home in the morning.

Usually if you look at it in the dark you'll see some arcing inside. Either that or the bearing went.

I assume the $450 is a new Honda part. Last time I did one they rebuilt it for $150. I think I even got the same one back. They even sandblasted the casing.

Find an alternator or auto electric shop and find someone to do this through them.

Most of the newer ones are brushless, that's why they're more expensive. The voltage regulator will go out first on the newer ones and it's fairly easy to short them out during a repair (I'd blame them). Still repairable! What are the chances that it breaks when it's in their hands. Possible but highly unlikely. The first rule to mechanics is to disconnect the negative terminal, if they cut corners they could have fried it.

Here's a howto: http://www.bukisa.com/articles/449063_change-your-alternator-on-your-honda-odyssey

For an experienced mechanic, this should be a 15-minute job.

Hell, even if you need to buy the tools - it's cheaper to DIY in their parking lot.

If they don't fix it for free, I would say thanks for trouble shooting it and fix it in their parking lot...lol. Other places will do free quotes, like brake masters. If I hear something going on I'll take it somewhere for a quote then go fix it myself.

[DollarBill]

If I have to take something in to the shop (mostly because it's a pain). I'll mark the bolt head with a hash mark (mark across the top of the bolt and a mark next to the bolt). I've had a few times where I did this and they tried to sell me a new part but not replace it. Once I went to a dealership to have a transmission fluid changed. Not just flushed, I paid extra for them to drop the pan and change the filter. I marked six bolt heads and it was the same when they were done. I had words with the manager because I was charged extra but they only did a flush. Long story short they did it again while I watched.

Most of the time now-a-days they don't do real maintenance. They just replace stuff, if the transmission isn't working they put a new one in at your cost. It could be an easy fix but it would cost them more. Example: Trans goes bad, you take to shop, they sell you a refurb trans, charge you $3K, turn yours in (they get a rebate/core charge for $1k), and repeat.

Buy a manual for any car you own, it will save you big bucks. It will at least give you knowledge so they can't take advantage of you. 

[greenmimama]

As others have said, the alternator is one of the easiest engine parts to change on most vehicles. I'd check YouTube; there's probably a guide for your Odyssey.

Something to keep in mind for the future however, is that the gen. Ody you drive has weak transmissions, and you might have to deal with a 3k repair on that soon.

That is one reason we bought this specific can because it had already had the transmission replaced.

[dcheesi]

As others have said, the alternator is one of the easiest engine parts to change on most vehicles. I'd check YouTube; there's probably a guide for your Odyssey.

Something to keep in mind for the future however, is that the gen. Ody you drive has weak transmissions, and you might have to deal with a 3k repair on that soon.

What is it with minivans and transmissions? Both of my brothers' minivans died due to bad transmissions, and they were completely different makes/models. In one case the van was unrepairable because there were no cheap replacements to be found --every single van of that model in the junkyards had died of the same problem, or had long since been stripped of transmission parts to fix those that had.

[CarDude]

As others have said, the alternator is one of the easiest engine parts to change on most vehicles. I'd check YouTube; there's probably a guide for your Odyssey.

Something to keep in mind for the future however, is that the gen. Ody you drive has weak transmissions, and you might have to deal with a 3k repair on that soon.

That is one reason we bought this specific can because it had already had the transmission replaced.

Ah, that's good that you were aware of the issue. Hopefully once the alternator is resolved, you'll have more trouble-free miles ahead.

What is it with minivans and transmissions? Both of my brothers' minivans died due to bad transmissions, and they were completely different makes/models. In one case the van was unrepairable because there were no cheap replacements to be found --every single van of that model in the junkyards had died of the same problem, or had long since been stripped of transmission parts to fix those that had.

What you're describing is sadly familiar. In the issues I've seen, often car manufacturers basically plop car transmissions into minivans, which, being much heavier, put much more stress on the parts. It's annoying, and when one generation has an issue, it typically doesn't get really fixed until the following generation, which means you can get year after year of problems (e.g., the 1999 to 2004 Odysseys).

[Thegoblinchief]

/threadhijack

Not sure about transmissions but I've had good luck importing JDM used parts. I got an engine complete with acccessories delivered to my door for $800. Comparable junkyard engine would have been $2000+

Then again, I'm not sure if the Odyssey is even sold in the JDM. This was for a 97 Subaru.

[BlueMR2]

What is it with minivans and transmissions? Both of my brothers' minivans died due to bad transmissions, and they were completely different makes/models. In one case the van was unrepairable because there were no cheap replacements to be found --every single van of that model in the junkyards had died of the same problem, or had long since been stripped of transmission parts to fix those that had.

Minivans are built like cars, but weigh more, like a truck.  The cheaper parts designed for use in lighter cars don't tend to hold up well when burdened down in a larger vehicle...  If you want the sturdier truck parts, you need to spend more money and buy an actual truck based van.