SNAP Challenge

[Herbert Derp]

Has anyone seen this?
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/rep-stockman-staffer-claims-he-beat-s
http://frac.org/initiatives/snapfood-stamp-challenges/

I find it pretty hilarious, considering that my food budget has been under $3.50/day for the past six months--and I don't eat processed junk food for my meals. The complaints crack me up, if these people stopped shopping at Whole Foods they might realize that food isn't actually that expensive.

Although I do find Ferguson's shopping list to be a little odd.

I mean, for $18.00 I can buy...

$10.00 - 5 lbs of frozen chicken breast
$1.87 - 10 lbs of russet potatoes
$1.56 - 2 lbs of frozen vegetables
$1.21 - 7 bananas
$0.82 - 1 lb of spaghetti
$0.86 - 1 can of pasta sauce
$1.68 - 10 packets of instant oatmeal

This will provide basic meals for a week (plus leftovers!), round it out with some snacks and a multivitamin and that is basically my diet.

[DocLago]

I've had my monthly food costs down to 100$ over the last few months aside from a few indulgences here and there.   Mostly healthy food, and in general food I look forward to and don't dread eating.  I don't feel like I'm missing much.

[tomk2]

I didn't even realize that our family of 3 (ok, our daughter is only 2.5 years old) lived below the food stamp level until the mayor of Philadelphia did a similar challenge last winter. And groceries are one of our biggest expenditures!

[lisahi]

I'm trying to figure out where this myth came from that fresh fruits and vegetables are expensive. Apples and bananas, in particular, are very inexpensive. Apples can last quite awhile in the refrigerator, too (so can peaches and certain other fruits, as long as you buy them unripe and put them in as soon as they ripen). Chicken breasts aren't expensive, either, and both can be easily frozen for later use. Using coupons or even just shopping the sales can easily get you under $133 per month. Smart choices will take you further. In fact, I think it would be more difficult to stay within $133 per month for a family of four if you're buying pre-packaged foods, simply because they don't go as far. It's the difference between buying packaged instant oatmeal and making your own oatmeal. You can get a huge canister of oats for less than a 12-pack of instant oatmeal packets. The canister of oats can last you a a lot longer, especially if you add in fillers like raisins, apples, etc., that make it stretch.

[Inevitable]

You guys just don't understand.  How are they supposed to afford their Snapples and their pre-made sandwiches!!!

[chicagomeg]

We've had convos about this here before...I maintain that this challenges are stupid because they are red herrings for the real issues of systemic poverty. You can't throw money at the problem.

[ace1224]

Has anyone seen this?
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/rep-stockman-staffer-claims-he-beat-s
http://frac.org/initiatives/snapfood-stamp-challenges/

I find it pretty hilarious, considering that my food budget has been under $3.50/day for the past six months--and I don't eat processed junk food for my meals. The complaints crack me up, if these people stopped shopping at Whole Foods they might realize that food isn't actually that expensive.

Although I do find Ferguson's shopping list to be a little odd.

I mean, for $18.00 I can buy...

$10.00 - 5 lbs of frozen chicken breast
$1.87 - 10 lbs of russet potatoes
$1.56 - 2 lbs of frozen vegetables
$1.21 - 7 bananas
$0.82 - 1 lb of spaghetti
$0.86 - 1 can of pasta sauce
$1.68 - 10 packets of instant oatmeal

This will provide basic meals for a week (plus leftovers!), round it out with some snacks and a multivitamin and that is basically my diet.

i agree.  but i'm impressed you got potatoes for 1.87! i have to pay 2.99 for 5 pounds and that's on sale!

[prodarwin]

I mean, for $18.00 I can buy...

$10.00 - 5 lbs of frozen chicken breast
$1.87 - 10 lbs of russet potatoes
$1.56 - 2 lbs of frozen vegetables
$1.21 - 7 bananas
$0.82 - 1 lb of spaghetti
$0.86 - 1 can of pasta sauce
$1.68 - 10 packets of instant oatmeal

Those bottom 3 are "processed junk" in my book.  Unless there is some unprocessed pasta?  (I'd love to find some)

[kdms]

Have you tried making your own pasta?  It's not at all hard and tastes much better than the store bought stuff, I find.  Flour, eggs, a little olive oil, pinch of salt.  Mind you it'll cost more than $0.82 in ingredients...but you can make an awful lot of pasta with the raw materials.

[infogoon]

I find the SNAP challenge to be an interesting gimmick, but still a gimmick. My family of four spends far less on food than we would be eligible for in SNAP benefits here in New York. But that's because we have a reliable vehicle to shop at multiple stores, an Internet connection and a printer to print out coupons, money for a newspaper subscription for additional coupons, time to carefully comparison shop and make shopping lists; all luxuries that are not normally considered in these challenges.

[No Name Guy]

Chicken breasts are such luxury goods ;-) 

Bone in thighs and legs - there are some inexpensive cuts of chicken.  And with better flavor (IMO) than breast.  Bake 'em in a pyrex dish in the oven. 

Alternatively, roast a whole chicken in the oven - about 89 cents a pound seems typical at my local main stream not Whole Paycheck / not Ripoff Joes store.  It's not difficult - rinse, pat dry, rub with a bit of oil, grind on a little pepper, 325 to 350 until a meat thermometer shows the deep thigh is cooked (~165-170).  Once you're done picking over the carcass, use the left over bits and bones for stock or soup base.  Chop up some veggies, add some rice (white or brown, as desired) or dumplings or barley.

Dumplings (flour and egg) cost very little - a dime to 20 cents per egg, mix with enough flour to form a sticky dough (a few cents worth) and drop into the boiling soup base and you're done.

[velocistar237]

$0.82 - 1 lb of spaghetti
$0.86 - 1 can of pasta sauce
$1.68 - 10 packets of instant oatmeal

Those bottom 3 are "processed junk" in my book.  Unless there is some unprocessed pasta?  (I'd love to find some)

You can use veggies instead of pasta and make your own pasta sauce out of tomatoes.

Instant oatmeal is just regular oatmeal that's been rolled flatter so it cooks faster. I don't know if I would consider that a significant amount of processing, unless you get the sugary kind. It's been forever, but I do love some maple and brown sugar oatmeal.

we have a reliable vehicle to shop at multiple stores, an Internet connection and a printer to print out coupons, money for a newspaper subscription for additional coupons, time to carefully comparison shop and make shopping lists; all luxuries that are not normally considered in these challenges.

Are coupons really worth the effort? We have a local store that's just plain cheaper than all the other area stores. We just buy store brand. There are loss leaders but no shopping-club/VIP/value card. Each week, planning involves making a meal plan and a list while watching a TV show the night before, and shopping takes less than an hour total. We average $80/week for 2 adults and 3 small kids.

[TLV]

I find it interesting that these food stamp challenges are all based on the average benefit, instead of the maximum. The benefit is scaled based on resources (income & assets), so it's usually less than the maximum. I infer that people who receive less than the maximum benefit are expected to buy more food out of their own money, rather than cutting their food budget to just the SNAP amount. (Imagine if you had the right amount of income to qualify for just $10 per month in benefits - that's about 2 packs of ramen per day.) However, the popularity of a challenge at the average level seems like evidence that most people don't think that way.

More evidence of a broken system: Using this estimator, if I have 0 income but no mortgage/rent, then I get the maximum benefit. However, if I add in $500 per month in income and $500/month in rent, then even though I still have no money, the benefit decreases.

I have no ideas about how to fix this; I just thought it was really odd.

For my family of 3, the max benefit is a whopping $526. That's about 50% more than we spend - which, coincidentally, is right around what the food stamp challenge would give us. I'll admit that our 1-year-old subsidizes the two adults a bit at the moment, though...

[infogoon]

Are coupons really worth the effort? We have a local store that's just plain cheaper than all the other area stores. We just buy store brand. There are loss leaders but no shopping-club/VIP/value card. Each week, planning involves making a meal plan and a list while watching a TV show the night before, and shopping takes less than an hour total. We average $80/week for 2 adults and 3 small kids.

We save a tremendous amount of money with coupons. I don't know if that's because we're in an area with multiple grocery stores that are competing with one another, but we are able to leverage coupons and sales to save at least 70% off retail for food and sundries. Again, though, this requires careful planning and trips to multiple stores.

[ace1224]

Are coupons really worth the effort? We have a local store that's just plain cheaper than all the other area stores. We just buy store brand. There are loss leaders but no shopping-club/VIP/value card. Each week, planning involves making a meal plan and a list while watching a TV show the night before, and shopping takes less than an hour total. We average $80/week for 2 adults and 3 small kids.

We save a tremendous amount of money with coupons. I don't know if that's because we're in an area with multiple grocery stores that are competing with one another, but we are able to leverage coupons and sales to save at least 70% off retail for food and sundries. Again, though, this requires careful planning and trips to multiple stores.

i use them when i can.  food lion doesn't double or triple.  kmart will double, but their prices are so much higher that even doubling is more expensive than the generic knock off brand at food lion.
we used to have a harris teeter that would triple, but it closed years ago.  even though i have like 8 stores around me they are all the same chain (food lion) that i feel like i'm in a food desert.  we do have a wal mart and sams club but its the crap processed stuff that is so much cheaper at walmart.  i am going to make friends with a military person and make them take me to the commissary.

[Insanity]

My wife consistently hits the 40-60% savings between coupons and store card deals.  She did that today, albeit not being any meat.   Kosher meat is even tougher to get deals on.  She doesn't spend all that much time on it at all. Maybe an hour or two every four or five days (including getting rid of expired coupons).

She also has her own couponing site, PM me if you are interested.

[lisahi]

Chicken breasts are such luxury goods ;-) 

Bone in thighs and legs - there are some inexpensive cuts of chicken.  And with better flavor (IMO) than breast.  Bake 'em in a pyrex dish in the oven. 

Breasts are healthier, though. I don't personally consider them luxury items. Perhaps they're cheaper in my neck of the woods.

As for the couponing discussion. I *wish* I lived in an area where you could coupon. Not enough competition. There's one main grocery store (HEB) along with Dollar General and Walmart, neither of which are substantial competitors when it comes to grocery shopping. There are in-store coupons and some clipped coupons from circulars. No double or triple couponing. Mostly I buy the store brand.

[Gyosho]

I find the SNAP challenge to be an interesting gimmick, but still a gimmick. My family of four spends far less on food than we would be eligible for in SNAP benefits here in New York. But that's because we have a reliable vehicle to shop at multiple stores, an Internet connection and a printer to print out coupons, money for a newspaper subscription for additional coupons, time to carefully comparison shop and make shopping lists; all luxuries that are not normally considered in these challenges.

I agree entirely with this. The SNAP challenge is not really addressing the root issue of how to feed people in poor neighborhoods who have to rely on public transportation, have little free time to cook, and do not have access to good grocery stores.

Anyone who has a car, free time, an Internet connection to look up recipes, and good grocery stores could easily ace the SNAP challenge.

[chicagomeg]

I find the SNAP challenge to be an interesting gimmick, but still a gimmick. My family of four spends far less on food than we would be eligible for in SNAP benefits here in New York. But that's because we have a reliable vehicle to shop at multiple stores, an Internet connection and a printer to print out coupons, money for a newspaper subscription for additional coupons, time to carefully comparison shop and make shopping lists; all luxuries that are not normally considered in these challenges.

I agree entirely with this. The SNAP challenge is not really addressing the root issue of how to feed people in poor neighborhoods who have to rely on public transportation, have little free time to cook, and do not have access to good grocery stores.

Anyone who has a car, free time, an Internet connection to look up recipes, and good grocery stores could easily ace the SNAP challenge.

Yep, and don't forget about access to & supplies for a kitchen.

[No Name Guy]

[Chicken] Breasts are healthier...[than thighs and legs]

Please explain. 
(Serious question, as in that's one I've not heard before - chicken is chicken to me, perhaps I don't have all the facts.)

[Rebecca Stapler]

[Chicken] Breasts are healthier...[than thighs and legs]

Please explain. 
(Serious question, as in that's one I've not heard before - chicken is chicken to me, perhaps I don't have all the facts.)

It's leaner than thighs and legs -- fewer calories and fat.

[Rebecca Stapler]

Are coupons really worth the effort? We have a local store that's just plain cheaper than all the other area stores. We just buy store brand. There are loss leaders but no shopping-club/VIP/value card. Each week, planning involves making a meal plan and a list while watching a TV show the night before, and shopping takes less than an hour total. We average $80/week for 2 adults and 3 small kids.

That's great! Do you go to Market Basket? There isn't one near me, so I go to Stop & Shop. I use coupons and shop the sales cycle. I've been averaging about $100/week lately for 2 adults and 1 toddler, and my receipt regularly tells me that I saved 30-45% off. We eat only lean meats and lots of salads, which takes up most of the bill; and have some selected organic and niche requirements, but they're usually discounted by coupons. Each shopping trip usually has me stockpiling one item or another, but it's balanced out by the fact that I don't have to buy pasta for 10 weeks; and the week after that it's cereal or some such thing.

[jba302]

[Chicken] Breasts are healthier...[than thighs and legs]

Please explain. 
(Serious question, as in that's one I've not heard before - chicken is chicken to me, perhaps I don't have all the facts.)

It's leaner than thighs and legs -- fewer calories and fat.

Except animal fat is beneficial for humans. Saturated fat helps your hormone production, specifically testosterone which is a fantastic hormone for guys to have a lot of. So just the calories part applies, unless you eat (as I do) well over 3k calories/day just to stay upright. Then it's really just a piece of delicious meat that's good for you in every way and has yummy calories.

Unless, of course, you are overweight, or you are a hyper-responder to dietary cholesterol. Or you have a bad diet, notably a lack of fruits and vegetables. Then it can be really unhealthy.

It's kind of like all the hoopla about carbs. Burn through them at a sufficient rate and they are a great source of fuel, aiding in muscle growth and all sorts of fun shit. Lot of carbs with lots of inactivity? Diabeetus.

[MrsPete]

Fresh fruits and veggies can be expensive or inexpensive.  For example, today my husband brought home 8 ears of corn for $1.  Yum!  Yes, I know corn isn't exactly a veggie, but tomatoes, cucumbers and other fresh vegetables are also super cheap at this time of year . . . And if you're smart enough to freeze or can a bunch, you can save big.  On the other hand, if you buy individual Honey Crisp apples or Pluots, you're going to pay more than the cost of canned fruit. 

Another reason fresh, healthy foods are considered xpensive is that they have a short lifespan (strawberries, for example, are fresh for about 15 minutes) . . .  And I think we'll all agree that the most expensive food of all is the food that never gets eaten and is thrown into the trash. 

Frozen and canned fruits and veggies are almost always cheaper, and they last a long time -- and simple, unseasoned frozen / no salt canned are equal to fresh in nutrition . . . Though they don't taste as good. 


Bone in thighs are probably the best bang for the buck when it comes to meat, but I don't like them for everything. 


As for feeding the poor, I think a great deal of this is attitude and willingness.  When I was a kid and we were poor, we ate everything put in front of us, grew and preserved veggies, etc.  but my mom taught us that.  In contrast, I see a cousin of mine who works only sporadically.  The day he gets paid, they go eat the buffet at Golden Corral or Ryan's (and steal fried chicken and as many rolls as they can).  After that splurge, they eat fast food 'til the paycheck's gone.  When the money's gone, they show up at relatives' houses at dinner time or they just don't eat.  Many family members have offered to help his wife (who has a perfectly good kitchen, though probably not a full compliment of cookware and who doesn't work) how to prepare simple, cheap foods like pintos and cornbread, but she refuses, saying that they really only like fast food, cooking is just too hard, and other excuses.  She will occasionally warm up frozen chicken pot pies or give the kids a boc of crackers.  Apparently they're okay with being hungry half the week 'cause they do it over and over and over.  Oh, and they have two children -- you won't be surprised to hear that Social Services is involved with this family. 

[Micheal]

I used to be dirt poor.  I had about $600 a month income, we qualified for $116 in SNAP benefits, and we used them, mostly to buy stuff that would last and could be frozen, after raw material and canned stuff we now spend about $80/mo on average.  Now think about that for a family of 4 with the same benefits.  It just wouldn't stretch the same. 

[lisahi]

Except animal fat is beneficial for humans. Saturated fat helps your hormone production, specifically testosterone which is a fantastic hormone for guys to have a lot of. So just the calories part applies, unless you eat (as I do) well over 3k calories/day just to stay upright. Then it's really just a piece of delicious meat that's good for you in every way and has yummy calories.

Unless, of course, you are overweight, or you are a hyper-responder to dietary cholesterol. Or you have a bad diet, notably a lack of fruits and vegetables. Then it can be really unhealthy.

It's kind of like all the hoopla about carbs. Burn through them at a sufficient rate and they are a great source of fuel, aiding in muscle growth and all sorts of fun shit. Lot of carbs with lots of inactivity? Diabeetus.

If you don't need 3000 calories to stay upright, then the difference in the cut of meat can be relevant. Chicken thighs have about 3 times more saturated fat than chicken breasts. Not to say either cut is swimming in fat--they're both relatively healthy if prepared properly (a serving size of chicken thighs would be around 3g of saturated fat to 1g for a serving size of chicken breasts--the serving size being only 3 oz.). You should limit your saturated fat intake to, at most, 7-10% of your daily calories (depending on whether you follow the AHA or the USDA recommendations). For somebody who simply needs far fewer calories to stay upright, there is value in making a choice that would save calories related to saturated fat.

[Gyosho]

Gwyneth Paltrow has now joined the snap challenge:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/11/entertainment/gwyneth-paltrow-food-stamps/

7 limes for one week?

[aschmidt2930]

I've also never understood the popular belief that healthy food is expensive.  In many cases, it's actually cheaper. 

Yet, we constantly hear how people are "forced" to order off the McDonalds dollar menu and buy processed garbage because they cannot afford quality food.  Quality food is not expensive, but being obese is.

[kpd905]

My wife consistently hits the 40-60% savings between coupons and store card deals. 

Where does she find the coupons?

[Johnez]

I wonder if living in a metro area gives an advantage in food prices. I'm pretty sure it does, it seems like a trip to 3-5 stores gets the groceries for the week plus staples for a month at sales prices relatively easily. I get ads from all the grocers (about 8 near us) simply pick and choose. They all have to compete and they all bring out the loss leaders. Compared to people living in rural areas where access is more limited and stuff is spaced out, I think a lot of us are at an advantage here.

[11ducks]

I find the SNAP challenge to be an interesting gimmick, but still a gimmick. My family of four spends far less on food than we would be eligible for in SNAP benefits here in New York. But that's because we have a reliable vehicle to shop at multiple stores, an Internet connection and a printer to print out coupons, money for a newspaper subscription for additional coupons, time to carefully comparison shop and make shopping lists; all luxuries that are not normally considered in these challenges.

I agree entirely with this. The SNAP challenge is not really addressing the root issue of how to feed people in poor neighborhoods who have to rely on public transportation, have little free time to cook, and do not have access to good grocery stores.

Anyone who has a car, free time, an Internet connection to look up recipes, and good grocery stores could easily ace the SNAP challenge.

Yep, and don't forget about access to & supplies for a kitchen.

And things like a fridge, freezer, working hot plate, blender, stovetop, decent cookware (because food sticks the crap stuff), storage supplies, etc

[Rural]

I wonder if living in a metro area gives an advantage in food prices. I'm pretty sure it does, it seems like a trip to 3-5 stores gets the groceries for the week plus staples for a month at sales prices relatively easily. I get ads from all the grocers (about 8 near us) simply pick and choose. They all have to compete and they all bring out the loss leaders. Compared to people living in rural areas where access is more limited and stuff is spaced out, I think a lot of us are at an advantage here.

I think that is true for some rural regions, but here, prices are just so much lower (for everything, but food prices are remarkably lower) that having only one or two grocery options doesn't matter. I also don't spend the gas driving to several stores, though I do spend it once to get to the single more distant store.


But moving here from the city caused a big cut in the grocery budget because prices are just so much lower, even at the same-brand store, and I didn't expect that.

[TomTX]

Except animal fat is beneficial for humans. Saturated fat helps your hormone production, specifically testosterone which is a fantastic hormone for guys to have a lot of. So just the calories part applies, unless you eat (as I do) well over 3k calories/day just to stay upright. Then it's really just a piece of delicious meat that's good for you in every way and has yummy calories.

Unless, of course, you are overweight, or you are a hyper-responder to dietary cholesterol. Or you have a bad diet, notably a lack of fruits and vegetables. Then it can be really unhealthy.

It's kind of like all the hoopla about carbs. Burn through them at a sufficient rate and they are a great source of fuel, aiding in muscle growth and all sorts of fun shit. Lot of carbs with lots of inactivity? Diabeetus.

If you don't need 3000 calories to stay upright, then the difference in the cut of meat can be relevant. Chicken thighs have about 3 times more saturated fat than chicken breasts. Not to say either cut is swimming in fat--they're both relatively healthy if prepared properly (a serving size of chicken thighs would be around 3g of saturated fat to 1g for a serving size of chicken breasts--the serving size being only 3 oz.). You should limit your saturated fat intake to, at most, 7-10% of your daily calories (depending on whether you follow the AHA or the USDA recommendations). For somebody who simply needs far fewer calories to stay upright, there is value in making a choice that would save calories related to saturated fat.

The entire "saturated fat is BAAAD" is a combination of bullshit and conflating natural saturated fats with chemically created (hydrogenated/trans) saturated fats. Hydrogenated/trans saturated fats are quite bad for you.

http://profgrant.com/2013/08/02/saturated-fat-is-bad-for-you-really/

[Neustache]

I'm not usually a defender of poor habits/choices, but I have to say, I had a little stress thrown at me one week, and my frugality muscles and will-power went to absolute crap.  All we were doing was having work done on our house - and it was just one week.  But I found myself telling my daughter to buy her lunch at school (instead of making her one) and not even being able to clean properly even though I was home all day.  Because I wasn't cleaning, the kitchen was terrible, so then my husband was less inclined to cook. 

One week of moderate levels of stress.  I knew that when I worked full-time we usually ate out more, made poor choices, just from being tired.  This was the first time I'd had a week like that and it wasn't due to something like a new baby, and so it was really easy for me to see the cause and effect of the stress and my choices.

It was eye-opening what stress would do to my ability to make my daughter a simple lunch.  I couldn't focus and didn't have a plan for what to pack, so I just didn't do it.  Lame, I know, and if this was more of an automated area for us it wouldn't have been such a problem, but I just couldn't make the simple decisions of what to pack for her. 

My point being....I'm sure that the stress of just normal life of the poor really overworks the brain to where things that seem simple and a no-brainer actually takes a ton of effort to think through - and it would take some mighty will power to pull through even if you manage to make the decisions of what was good to buy.  Would be easier to stock up on Totinos and ramen noodles and call it a day - or more expensive frozen processed food.

So the SNAP challenge is really easy for us, when we don't have a bunch of cortisol pumping through our system.  Haven't looked for studies to back up my anecdote; I'll look and see what I find later. 

[Bob W]

I just helped one of my clients (I work with poor folks)  buy a months worth of food for $90.   It took about 30 minutes of Wal-Mart time.   I could have done much better if I had spaced it out over a month and hit loss leaders.  But it wasn't even a challenge.  Ended up with 15 pounds of meat,  lots of frozen veggies and lots of pasta products,  potatoes,  bread,  pasta sauce etc..


The SNAP budget amount should be a guide for the upper end for most MMM readers.   

Maybe these clowns doing the SNAP challenge should jump in and do an MMM challenge. 

Here is the quick 3 dollar a day monthly food budget --

10 pounds flour - $4
6 dozen eggs on sale - $6
10 pounds chicken on sale, or livers/gizzards - $13
2 olive oils - $8
30 lbs frozen veggies - $30
Misc - $30

Much healthier than what 97% of people eat. 

Oh my,  it requires cooking!

[Tami1982]

I find it interesting that these food stamp challenges are all based on the average benefit, instead of the maximum. The benefit is scaled based on resources (income & assets), so it's usually less than the maximum. I infer that people who receive less than the maximum benefit are expected to buy more food out of their own money, rather than cutting their food budget to just the SNAP amount. (Imagine if you had the right amount of income to qualify for just $10 per month in benefits - that's about 2 packs of ramen per day.) However, the popularity of a challenge at the average level seems like evidence that most people don't think that way.

More evidence of a broken system: Using this estimator, if I have 0 income but no mortgage/rent, then I get the maximum benefit. However, if I add in $500 per month in income and $500/month in rent, then even though I still have no money, the benefit decreases.

I have no ideas about how to fix this; I just thought it was really odd.

For my family of 3, the max benefit is a whopping $526. That's about 50% more than we spend - which, coincidentally, is right around what the food stamp challenge would give us. I'll admit that our 1-year-old subsidizes the two adults a bit at the moment, though...

There was a brief period of time where I qualified for $10.  It almost wasn't worth the effort required to receive it, but I kept it up.  Then I lost it when my income went up $100 a month.

[mathlete]

I definitely think it is a good exercise (and thought exercise) to see the minimum amount you can spend and eat healthy.

I do find it kind of disingenuous when congresspeople do it though. When someone making $174K a year minimum is doing the food stamp challenge, it is human nature that they're going to downplay the advantages they have over someone who is actually on SNAP. Not the least of which is knowing with certainty, the date at which the publicity stunt is going to be over.

I'm at about $11 per person per day between myself in my GF according to our budget. I'm not sure what we actually spend though. It's probably more.

[mm1970]

I just helped one of my clients (I work with poor folks)  buy a months worth of food for $90.   It took about 30 minutes of Wal-Mart time.   I could have done much better if I had spaced it out over a month and hit loss leaders.  But it wasn't even a challenge.  Ended up with 15 pounds of meat,  lots of frozen veggies and lots of pasta products,  potatoes,  bread,  pasta sauce etc..


The SNAP budget amount should be a guide for the upper end for most MMM readers.   

Maybe these clowns doing the SNAP challenge should jump in and do an MMM challenge. 

Here is the quick 3 dollar a day monthly food budget --

10 pounds flour - $4
6 dozen eggs on sale - $6
10 pounds chicken on sale, or livers/gizzards - $13
2 olive oils - $8
30 lbs frozen veggies - $30
Misc - $30

Much healthier than what 97% of people eat. 

Oh my,  it requires cooking!

This is fascinating though, because those prices are pretty good - much of that is going to depend on location and stores.  We don't have a Walmart, so the only way to hit those prices would be loss leaders.  And even then, $1 a pound for frozen vegetables is very rare - occasionally $1 per "bag", which is only 12 ounces now (they think we don't notice??)

I have a friend who got SNAP for 6-12 months when her husband lost his job.  Their benefit was $256 a month for a family of 5.  They were hungry a LOT, even though they live on a farm and had pigs they slaughtered and a large garden.  They all lost weight - my friend lost 50 pound (yes, she had that weight to lose, but she went hungry).  Her kids also lost weight even though they didn't have weight to lose.

[HazelStone]

I'm not usually a defender of poor habits/choices, but I have to say, I had a little stress thrown at me one week, and my frugality muscles and will-power went to absolute crap.   

I believe the term you want to search under is "ego depletion." There's been lots of research done on the topic, here and in poverty-stricken communities abroad.

[Bob W]

I have clients who receive as little as $10 per month and those that receive $125 per person.   In Missouri the cuts seem to begin around $800 in income for 1 person.   Some of my guys earning 11K per year receive $15 per month in SNAP. 

I just did the Missouri Calculator for a family of 4 with $1,400 in unemployment income and $700 monthly housing payment.   

The total came out to $510 or $4.25 per person per day.    This does not include free breakfast and lunches provided for the children at school or the weekend backpack or summer feeding programs or the food pantry.   Don't forget that this same family would receive somewhere in the area of 5-8K in tax free tax credit income per year as well  if this was a permanent situation.   

While I realize this is not the greatest of income and expenses scenarios the food part should be very doable and then some.   

The scenario might work something like  1400 income minus 800 housing/utilities minus 20 phone minus 40 misc minus 50 gas minus 50 car insurance.  Leaving 440 discretionary. 

So in the case of many of my clients we have to be creative to keep them from saving over the $999 threshold so as not to lose their Medicaid.   Most of them don't have car expenses.

One of my typical client's budget shakes out like this --

Housing -  Rent $150 (low income subsidized very nice setting)
Heat/AC/Electric -  $100
Cable - $125
Phone - $40
Food - $250 (above the $100 in food stamps, so $10 per day per person)
Misc - $100

Around $750 

They pay no medical insurance.   If they were living the Mustachian method they would cut $125 cable, $30 phone, $250 food and $50 misc leaving monthly expenses of $300.    They would then be at a 60% savings rate.   Most all food is premade. 

My clients are all intellectually challenged so they have lots of help in making budget decisions.  I can see where a typical person would have some difficulty with this.   

I have one person who works two jobs busting her ass and earns $1,200 per month.  She does not qualify for any assistance and is pretty much paycheck to paycheck, hand to mouth.   It is frustrating to watch her work so hard and not be afforded the same level of discretionary income as those who do not work at all.   

The system is geared to those on life long assistance and to families with children.  Those who fall between the cracks are often SOL. 

The system appears to encourage child bearing as benefits are most lucrative to women with children.   Intergenerational welfare dependency is common in our area.  4-5 generations deep. 

I'm not opposed to SNAP but it would be a more fiscally conservative program if it provided only 6 or 10 items such as beans, rice, flour, veggies, peanut butter,  chicken. 

[No Name Guy]

All the SNAP challenges also forget one additional source of no cost edibles:  Food banks.

60 seconds at the computer looking for Seattle specific food banks indicates that many are no questions asked - show up with ID and get your edibles once a week (I presume the ID is so you're not over using).  Some look like they cater to specific neighborhoods / ZIP codes, although the one in the U District I looked at more closely indicated if you're "homeless" they'll wave that requirement.

I have no idea what one would get from a food bank, I've always been on the other end of that equation.  Even one sack of groceries, basics like pasta and sauce, canned veggies, bread, rice, would go a long ways to forming the base diet that could then be filled in from other sources.

[Le Poisson]

As a Canadian, I wish you guys down south would stop bragging about your food prices. If there is one spot I really need to up my game this is it.

[mm1970]

Intergenerational welfare dependency is common in our area.  4-5 generations deep.

How do you fix that though?  I was thinking about that today.

People having babies in their teens, not married, no education, no family to help them out.  How do you quit the cycle?  This type of poverty/dependence is common in my rural hometown also.

I know people/ have relatives who had babies in their teens.  Some married the fathers, some didn't, but they all had family to give support (financial and emotional).  They went to college, got decent jobs, etc. One has a PhD in engineering.

Hard to do that with no support.

[Elliot]

I just helped one of my clients (I work with poor folks)  buy a months worth of food for $90.   It took about 30 minutes of Wal-Mart time.   I could have done much better if I had spaced it out over a month and hit loss leaders.  But it wasn't even a challenge.  Ended up with 15 pounds of meat,  lots of frozen veggies and lots of pasta products,  potatoes,  bread,  pasta sauce etc..


The SNAP budget amount should be a guide for the upper end for most MMM readers.   

Maybe these clowns doing the SNAP challenge should jump in and do an MMM challenge. 

Here is the quick 3 dollar a day monthly food budget --

10 pounds flour - $4
6 dozen eggs on sale - $6
10 pounds chicken on sale, or livers/gizzards - $13
2 olive oils - $8
30 lbs frozen veggies - $30
Misc - $30

Much healthier than what 97% of people eat. 

Oh my,  it requires cooking!

Out of curiousity, do you have a sample menu to go with that list? If so, I'd love to see it. You can PM the menu or I can send you my email address?

[scottish]

10 pounds of chicken on sale for $13?   Up here chicken on sale is $3 or $4 per pound!   6 dozen eggs for $6???   I think 1 dozen eggs cost $4!   1 olive oil for $8 is a reasonable deal here. 

Why are food prices so affordable in the US?

[Elliot]

I live in a fairly rural US area (meaning that I live less than 20 minutes from the walmart!) and am not sure I would even be able to match the price on half of those items.

[Le Poisson]

10 pounds of chicken on sale for $13?   Up here chicken on sale is $3 or $4 per pound!   6 dozen eggs for $6???   I think 1 dozen eggs cost $4!   1 olive oil for $8 is a reasonable deal here. 

Why are food prices so affordable in the US?

I started using the Flip App for pricematching and I still can't do any good in this area.

[HappierAtHome]

10 pounds of chicken on sale for $13?   Up here chicken on sale is $3 or $4 per pound!   6 dozen eggs for $6???   I think 1 dozen eggs cost $4!   1 olive oil for $8 is a reasonable deal here. 

Why are food prices so affordable in the US?

I hear your pain - food prices are much higher than the US here in Aus. (Google purchasing power parity if you're interested in learning how economists calculate/quantify these differences - it was enlightening for me).

[alsoknownasDean]

10 pounds of chicken on sale for $13?   Up here chicken on sale is $3 or $4 per pound!   6 dozen eggs for $6???   I think 1 dozen eggs cost $4!   1 olive oil for $8 is a reasonable deal here. 

Why are food prices so affordable in the US?

I hear your pain - food prices are much higher than the US here in Aus. (Google purchasing power parity if you're interested in learning how economists calculate/quantify these differences - it was enlightening for me).

Probably because ours isn't packed full of cheap corn :)

I've seen chicken (whole chicken or marylands/leg quarters) for $4 a kilo around the place. Even at Woolies.

I'm kinda keen to see if I can do such a challenge here with good cheap food. Being fairly close to the markets and Aldi means I should do alright :)

[kathrynd]

I have never bought groceries in the USA...so only can go by what people state.

I live in both Australia and Canada (split our time each year) and yes, our prices may be a bit higher than USA, it is not that much more.

In both countries, we follow the same rules.
Check out the local grocery stores, fruit/veg markets.
Find out when the stores have their reduced produce/meats for sale.
Take advantage of sales.
Don't make a menu plan prior to shopping, instead let the deals dictate what you make for meals.
Eat as much variety as possible.
Utilise spices.
Create new  meals using leftovers.