Poll

If you are single (can use hypothetical if you are not single) what is your expected FIRE number for a single person (include up to 200k in home equity)?

400k or less
401k to 500k
501k to 600k
600k to 700k
701k or more

Author Topic: Single FIRE number  (Read 8379 times)

wageslave23

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Single FIRE number
« on: August 16, 2018, 02:06:18 PM »
If you are planning on FIRE as a single person, I'm wondering what your networth at FIRE will be.  If you will own your home please include your equity up to 200k.  (I'm trying to keep people with 500k homes from skewing the numbers)

wageslave23

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2018, 02:48:46 PM »
Wow! There's only 7 responses so far but these really high networths are making me rethink my assumptions a little.

CalBal

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2018, 03:31:25 PM »
Well I voted 500-600, but I was originally targeting 750k. If you mean completely RE, I am going for 750k. But I recently reassessed and am imagining working still for some time so will likely pull the trigger at 500k (400k in assets and 100k in house equity). Maybe sooner, depending on how I feel.

ETA: In a coastFIRE scenario, 500-600 in equities is PLENTY to get to 750 in 10 years without a significant market correction.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 05:11:30 PM by CalBal »

FIRE Artist

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2018, 03:56:44 PM »
As a single, child free person I won’t gamble on not having enough money to pay for my own eldercare.

TempusFugit

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2018, 04:15:50 PM »
I think you need more high end options.  Personally, im aiming for 1.3-1.5M before i feel comfortable considering RE. 

jlcnuke

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2018, 04:34:50 PM »
$200k home equity + $500k investments is $20k/year total spending for everything including healthcare/insurance. If the ACA subsidies go away, that's 75% of your $20k/year likely gone to health insurance... seems really really slim, or optimistic, to me. My number is above $700k without home equity included.

JoJo

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2018, 04:38:29 PM »
I think you need more high end options.  Personally, im aiming for 1.3-1.5M before i feel comfortable considering RE.

I agree!  I'll probably be in the 2.5-3.0 range unless there's a huge market drop. 

BTDretire

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2018, 04:41:46 PM »
Many costs are the same whether single or married.
Property taxes, your income taxes could be higher,
car insurance, still need to heat or cool the same house.
Cable bill is the same.
 I'm sure one can live cheaper than two, but for me, I'd still want
pretty close to $1M in my nest egg.

Loren Ver

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2018, 05:00:30 PM »
My single and married numbers are the same for the reasons given above.  My ~$80,000 house doesn't take me far :).

We are planning for around $750,000 at our low end.

LV 

wageslave23

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2018, 08:59:26 AM »
$200k home equity + $500k investments is $20k/year total spending for everything including healthcare/insurance. If the ACA subsidies go away, that's 75% of your $20k/year likely gone to health insurance... seems really really slim, or optimistic, to me. My number is above $700k without home equity included.

My numbers are $100k house + 400k investments, $15k/year total spending.  I am similar to your hypothetical except my spending is much lower because paid off $100k house in lcola and using medishare so not dependent on ACA.  It still doesn't leave much room for error but if I'm FIRE'd at 37, it seems almost impossible that I wouldn't make money almost accidentally by pursuing my interests.  Plus I can always go back to work if things don't go according to plan. 

wageslave23

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2018, 09:01:03 AM »
I think you need more high end options.  Personally, im aiming for 1.3-1.5M before i feel comfortable considering RE.

I agree!  I'll probably be in the 2.5-3.0 range unless there's a huge market drop.

That would be an interesting poll, but I'm really only interested what percentage are planning on lean fire and just how lean.

mathlete

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2018, 09:08:11 AM »
Conservatism on healthcare easily puts me in the 700+ club.

mathlete

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2018, 09:11:17 AM »
That would be an interesting poll, but I'm really only interested what percentage are planning on lean fire and just how lean.

Agreed. I find this topic very fascinating. I don't want to seem like I'm betting against people, but I think 5 and 10 year followups on lean FIRE would be really informative for the community.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2018, 09:12:37 AM »
Why not just ask about stash size, not net worth?  I won't be drawing down on my home to pay my expenses.  Home value is irrelevant for me.

I've already hit my target, which well in excess of the highest option available in this poll, which again, excludes my home.

DS

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2018, 09:25:25 AM »
Why not just ask about stash size, not net worth?  I won't be drawing down on my home to pay my expenses.  Home value is irrelevant for me.

I've already hit my target, which well in excess of the highest option available in this poll, which again, excludes my home.

Highest option on the poll is infinity ;)

I think you need more high end options.  Personally, im aiming for 1.3-1.5M before i feel comfortable considering RE.

I agree!  I'll probably be in the 2.5-3.0 range unless there's a huge market drop.

That would be an interesting poll, but I'm really only interested what percentage are planning on lean fire and just how lean.

Should potentially change the thread title so people aren't so thrown off, otherwise most responses are going to be saying how the options are too low. Will also allow people who are going leaner to find the thread and bring their thoughts.

Dicey

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2018, 09:28:25 AM »
I live in a HCOLA. I was single until I was 54. My goal was $1M and I was pretty close. Then lightning struck and I got married. Now I'm crazy rich, lol. FIRE for almost six years. Glorious. <------ I know that sounds braggypants, but this is the MMM Forum, after all, and it's true.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2018, 09:29:10 AM »
Why not just ask about stash size, not net worth?  I won't be drawing down on my home to pay my expenses.  Home value is irrelevant for me.

I've already hit my target, which well in excess of the highest option available in this poll, which again, excludes my home.

Highest option on the poll is infinity ;)

Actually, it's not.  It starts at $701K, which isn't infinity.   However, it continues to infinity.

DS

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2018, 09:30:14 AM »
Why not just ask about stash size, not net worth?  I won't be drawing down on my home to pay my expenses.  Home value is irrelevant for me.

I've already hit my target, which well in excess of the highest option available in this poll, which again, excludes my home.

Highest option on the poll is infinity ;)

Actually, it's not.  It starts at $701K, which isn't infinity.   However, it continues to infinity.

Starts at 701K and continues until infinity. Starts = lowest. Highest being infinity.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2018, 09:33:04 AM »
Why not just ask about stash size, not net worth?  I won't be drawing down on my home to pay my expenses.  Home value is irrelevant for me.

I've already hit my target, which well in excess of the highest option available in this poll, which again, excludes my home.

Highest option on the poll is infinity ;)

Actually, it's not.  It starts at $701K, which isn't infinity.   However, it continues to infinity.

Starts at 701K and continues until infinity. Starts = lowest. Highest being infinity.

Yes.  But the "option" is $701K and up.  I said "highest option".  There's not an "option" specific to infinity.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2018, 09:35:58 AM »
I think you need more high end options.  Personally, im aiming for 1.3-1.5M before i feel comfortable considering RE.

What's what I'm talking about.  And scratch net worth and change it to "stash".

DS

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2018, 09:37:28 AM »
Why not just ask about stash size, not net worth?  I won't be drawing down on my home to pay my expenses.  Home value is irrelevant for me.

I've already hit my target, which well in excess of the highest option available in this poll, which again, excludes my home.

Highest option on the poll is infinity ;)

Actually, it's not.  It starts at $701K, which isn't infinity.   However, it continues to infinity.

Starts at 701K and continues until infinity. Starts = lowest. Highest being infinity.

Yes.  But the "option" is $701K and up.  I said "highest option".  There's not an "option" specific to infinity.

Seems to be just the degree to which it's higher is causing the issue?

Either way, as mentioned above, the thread title should be changed for the real target audience.

Zikoris

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2018, 09:46:00 AM »
We're shooting for somewhere in the 700s for two people, including tons of luxuries (partner likes comfort), so I think I'd have a hard time working past about 500K as a single person. We could actually live on that as a couple if we cut out our international vacations and changed nothing else, so it should be a breeze for one person.

CalBal

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2018, 09:57:18 AM »
I live in a HCOLA. I was single until I was 54. My goal was $1M and I was pretty close. Then lightning struck and I got married. Now I'm crazy rich, lol. FIRE for almost six years. Glorious. <------ I know that sounds braggypants, but this is the MMM Forum, after all, and it's true.
I wanted to mention that we don't know the future and this is always a possibility too! :)

wageslave23

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2018, 10:24:52 AM »
Why not just ask about stash size, not net worth?  I won't be drawing down on my home to pay my expenses.  Home value is irrelevant for me.

I've already hit my target, which well in excess of the highest option available in this poll, which again, excludes my home.

Someone with $500K and a paid off house is completely different than someone with 500k and no home equity who either needs to pay a mortgage or rent.

Good for you.

wageslave23

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2018, 10:27:16 AM »
Why not just ask about stash size, not net worth?  I won't be drawing down on my home to pay my expenses.  Home value is irrelevant for me.

I've already hit my target, which well in excess of the highest option available in this poll, which again, excludes my home.

Highest option on the poll is infinity ;)


I think you need more high end options.  Personally, im aiming for 1.3-1.5M before i feel comfortable considering RE.

I agree!  I'll probably be in the 2.5-3.0 range unless there's a huge market drop.

That would be an interesting poll, but I'm really only interested what percentage are planning on lean fire and just how lean.

Should potentially change the thread title so people aren't so thrown off, otherwise most responses are going to be saying how the options are too low. Will also allow people who are going leaner to find the thread and bring their thoughts.

I still want everyone to respond, its still relevant to know that only ~30% are planning on lean fire.  I want to know how many are planning on normal or fat fire, just don't really care how "Fat".

Dicey

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2018, 10:30:22 AM »
I live in a HCOLA. I was single until I was 54. My goal was $1M and I was pretty close. Then lightning struck and I got married. Now I'm crazy rich, lol. FIRE for almost six years. Glorious. <------ I know that sounds braggypants, but this is the MMM Forum, after all, and it's true.
I wanted to mention that we don't know the future and this is always a possibility too! :)
I've had cancer and I have a weird heart condition, so healthcare was my biggest stumbling block. I was actually trying to convince myself to hold on until Obamacare started in 2014. The guy who became DH was a long time acquaintance and recent widower. I approached him about becoming a domestic partner so I could get healthcare*. One crazy thing led to another and boom! we've been happily married almost six years. Not at all what I was expecting. Ever.

*I had done his family a favor a long time ago, so this was not quite as off the wall as it sounds. I may have covered this more in-depth in my journal.

wageslave23

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2018, 10:40:12 AM »
I live in a HCOLA. I was single until I was 54. My goal was $1M and I was pretty close. Then lightning struck and I got married. Now I'm crazy rich, lol. FIRE for almost six years. Glorious. <------ I know that sounds braggypants, but this is the MMM Forum, after all, and it's true.
I wanted to mention that we don't know the future and this is always a possibility too! :)
I've had cancer and I have a weird heart condition, so healthcare was my biggest stumbling block. I was actually trying to convince myself to hold on until Obamacare started in 2014. The guy who became DH was a long time acquaintance and recent widower. I approached him about becoming a domestic partner so I could get healthcare*. One crazy thing led to another and boom! we've been happily married almost six years. Not at all what I was expecting. Ever.

*I had done his family a favor a long time ago, so this was not quite as off the wall as it sounds. I may have covered this more in-depth in my journal.

Wow, so you married someone for the health insurance?!  And he agreed because his family owed you a favor?!  That does sound like a crazy story, I'll have to read your journal.  Did you end up falling in love after the fact? 

Steeze

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2018, 10:51:03 AM »
500k-750k
Likely downshift at 1M and let it ride to 1.5M before quitting for good (for DW and I). Spending is around 40k, pre-children, and we rent. Will look to add 1-2 kids and buy a multifamily before we are done.

mathlete

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2018, 10:54:32 AM »
We're shooting for somewhere in the 700s for two people, including tons of luxuries (partner likes comfort), so I think I'd have a hard time working past about 500K as a single person. We could actually live on that as a couple if we cut out our international vacations and changed nothing else, so it should be a breeze for one person.

@ 4%, 700K is 28K a year for two people. Seems kinda lean for tons of luxuries. What is your healthcare plan?

Zikoris

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2018, 11:13:53 AM »
We're shooting for somewhere in the 700s for two people, including tons of luxuries (partner likes comfort), so I think I'd have a hard time working past about 500K as a single person. We could actually live on that as a couple if we cut out our international vacations and changed nothing else, so it should be a breeze for one person.

@ 4%, 700K is 28K a year for two people. Seems kinda lean for tons of luxuries. What is your healthcare plan?

Our healthcare plan is "Choose to only live in sensible countries". I highly recommend it!

wageslave23

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2018, 11:16:23 AM »
We're shooting for somewhere in the 700s for two people, including tons of luxuries (partner likes comfort), so I think I'd have a hard time working past about 500K as a single person. We could actually live on that as a couple if we cut out our international vacations and changed nothing else, so it should be a breeze for one person.

@ 4%, 700K is 28K a year for two people. Seems kinda lean for tons of luxuries. What is your healthcare plan?

 I think they are in Canada.

mathlete

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2018, 11:28:58 AM »

 I think they are in Canada.

Gotcha! My American-centric brain won't allow my eyes to scan a few inches to the left to see where someone is posting from.

TempusFugit

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2018, 11:43:58 AM »
Health care here in the US is certainly the wild card.   My guesstimate expense for insurance after RE is $600/month.   Theres a good chance it would be even higher, since that is todays rate.  Tack on the out of pocket aspect and one has to figure something like 10K / year just for healthcare. 

The only thing related to expected cost in this area that gives me the slightest hope is the logical belief that costs simply cannot climb indefinitely because no pne will be able to pay.  Business cant be profitable if no one can afford their product.   

So taking that expense into consideration, im basically using my current spending plus a few thousand more per year for travel, hobbies, etc as my RE spend, and using the ol' 24x on it to get my number. 

And im lucky enough to have a small pension headed my way at 60, which should knock off maybe 1% on my withdrawal rate. 

I think as one poster above has mentioned, that if one is still quite young when RE, you might have more realistic optios to return to the work force should the caca hit the fan.   If one is older, say in ones 50's, i thnk those options will be somewhat curtailed.  Earning more may not be a viable option, so plan accordingly.   

SaucyAussie

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2018, 12:45:30 PM »
Agree with others, you would have got more useful data if you had used realistic stash numbers.

My goal is 900K, not including home equity.  I plan on having a paid off house. That gives me $3000 month to live on assuming the 4% rule.  I hope to tavel a lot.  Now if I could just meet a single female mustachian in the same situation!

mak1277

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2018, 01:24:54 PM »
my wife is the sensible one.  I would probably need a larger stash if I was single.

brooklynmoney

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2018, 01:28:28 PM »
My FIRE # (liquid assets only) used to be 1.5MM but I’ve upped it to 2mm due to HC unknowns. I figure even with Medicare I will need at least 10k a year for additional coverage. And I’m trying to stay on employer coverage until at least 50 so I only have to worry about 15 years without Medicare which sounds like a long time as I type this.

SachaFiscal

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2018, 02:36:30 PM »
I live in a HCOLA. I was single until I was 54. My goal was $1M and I was pretty close. Then lightning struck and I got married. Now I'm crazy rich, lol. FIRE for almost six years. Glorious. <------ I know that sounds braggypants, but this is the MMM Forum, after all, and it's true.
I wanted to mention that we don't know the future and this is always a possibility too! :)
I've had cancer and I have a weird heart condition, so healthcare was my biggest stumbling block. I was actually trying to convince myself to hold on until Obamacare started in 2014. The guy who became DH was a long time acquaintance and recent widower. I approached him about becoming a domestic partner so I could get healthcare*. One crazy thing led to another and boom! we've been happily married almost six years. Not at all what I was expecting. Ever.

*I had done his family a favor a long time ago, so this was not quite as off the wall as it sounds. I may have covered this more in-depth in my journal.

Wow, now that is an awesome meet-cute. You should write a screenplay about it.

JoJo

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2018, 05:25:43 PM »
Agree with others, you would have got more useful data if you had used realistic stash numbers.

My goal is 900K, not including home equity.  I plan on having a paid off house. That gives me $3000 month to live on assuming the 4% rule.  I hope to tavel a lot.  Now if I could just meet a single female mustachian in the same situation!

I'm single :)

Zikoris

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2018, 05:44:37 PM »
I don't know why I'm still surprised to see so many Spendy McSpendypants-es here...

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2018, 05:58:36 PM »
I think as a single person looking to FIRE it is making me even more conservative with my Stash because if things fail it is all on me.

Also I estimate needing at least $250,000-300,000 to pay for health care and property taxes (housing) but I assume no ACA and do not consider Health Sharing Ministries as an option for personal reasons (mainly I am conflicted with their cover/don't cover rules).  Instead I base my health care estimated on the cost of my current employer group plan.

PDXTabs

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2018, 08:29:53 PM »
I don't know why I'm still surprised to see so many Spendy McSpendypants-es here...

According to your profile you live in Vancouver, BC. According to numbeo the average cost for renting a one beadroom apartment close-in in Vancouver is $1,450.23 US per month. Retiring on $750K US in Vancouver seems down right frugal to me. I don't know what I'm missing?

 

marty998

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2018, 08:49:58 PM »
$700k is a little more than what my little apartment is worth. Sydney's a bitch.

So I'm going to need quite a bit more than that to FIRE.... in a few years I'll have the unit + $1.3 million.... that should be enough.

Agree with others, you would have got more useful data if you had used realistic stash numbers.

My goal is 900K, not including home equity.  I plan on having a paid off house. That gives me $3000 month to live on assuming the 4% rule.  I hope to tavel a lot.  Now if I could just meet a single female mustachian in the same situation!

I'm single :)

I'm impressed you are not once bitten twice shy of the international dating scene after your past experience @JoJo !


Zikoris

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2018, 09:28:18 PM »
I don't know why I'm still surprised to see so many Spendy McSpendypants-es here...

According to your profile you live in Vancouver, BC. According to numbeo the average cost for renting a one beadroom apartment close-in in Vancouver is $1,450.23 US per month. Retiring on $750K US in Vancouver seems down right frugal to me. I don't know what I'm missing?

You're missing two things:

1. Mustachians aren't supposed to be average. Paying average prices is for suckers. We're supposed to find deals and do weird things.
2. A single person does not need a large, fancy, private apartment near the downtown core. And especially not if it costs that much!

Dicey

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2018, 09:43:32 PM »
I live in a HCOLA. I was single until I was 54. My goal was $1M and I was pretty close. Then lightning struck and I got married. Now I'm crazy rich, lol. FIRE for almost six years. Glorious. <------ I know that sounds braggypants, but this is the MMM Forum, after all, and it's true.
I wanted to mention that we don't know the future and this is always a possibility too! :)
I've had cancer and I have a weird heart condition, so healthcare was my biggest stumbling block. I was actually trying to convince myself to hold on until Obamacare started in 2014. The guy who became DH was a long time acquaintance and recent widower. I approached him about becoming a domestic partner so I could get healthcare*. One crazy thing led to another and boom! we've been happily married almost six years. Not at all what I was expecting. Ever.

*I had done his family a favor a long time ago, so this was not quite as off the wall as it sounds. I may have covered this more in-depth in my journal.

Wow, now that is an awesome meet-cute. You should write a screenplay about it.
More like a bittersweet meet-cute, as his wife of nearly 25 years and mother of his two children had recently died of colon cancer :-(( She was his high school sweetheart and he had never even kissed another girl.

I will add that when we first met way back in 2001, I thought he was kind of a jerk and he thought I was a lesbian ;-) Sometimes we look at each other, laugh and ask ourselves how the hell we got here. And yes, we are crazy-nuts for each other and love our wacky life.

Fair warning: my journal is full of half-told tales and dangling something-or-others. I probably need to finish some storylines now that my sister "Sue" seems to be climbing out of the depths of her depression. I couldn't continue telling the story while she was in such danger.

wageslave23

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2018, 08:00:14 AM »
I don't know why I'm still surprised to see so many Spendy McSpendypants-es here...

Me too.  Most of the responders expected withrawal rate is more than the entire mmm family of 3.  If you retire with a 30k-40k spend rate it's not because you are mustacian, you just made a lot of money.  It's fine, but I wouldn't see much value in the blog if I were looking to live that type of lifestyle.  My spending while working is only $30k a year and that includes $7k mortgage, $4k student loans, $5k property taxes.  None of which will apply in retirement.

CalBal

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2018, 08:06:58 AM »
I don't know why I'm still surprised to see so many Spendy McSpendypants-es here...

Me too.  Most of the responders expected withrawal rate is more than the entire mmm family of 3.  If you retire with a 30k-40k spend rate it's not because you are mustacian, you just made a lot of money.  It's fine, but I wouldn't see much value in the blog if I were looking to live that type of lifestyle.  My spending while working is only $30k a year and that includes $7k mortgage, $4k student loans, $5k property taxes.  None of which will apply in retirement.

I think (and I could be wrong) that most people are concerned about health care.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2018, 09:04:46 AM »
Me too.  Most of the responders expected withrawal rate is more than the entire mmm family of 3.  If you retire with a 30k-40k spend rate it's not because you are mustacian, you just made a lot of money.  It's fine, but I wouldn't see much value in the blog if I were looking to live that type of lifestyle.  My spending while working is only $30k a year and that includes $7k mortgage, $4k student loans, $5k property taxes.  None of which will apply in retirement.

You have to add MMM paid off house into the equation to find their true cost of living since not everyone has the ability to own a home at FIRE. That raises their COL significantly. You can also reasonably argue that MMM uses creative accounting to spend a lot more than his reported COL as side projects that get allocated away from his annual budget. This also raises the family annual spend considerably.

Personally I'm aiming for $40K/yr spending after taxes in Canada Bucks [one person] and that includes paying a mortgage. That's like $30.6K USD/yr. I'm not trying to be  frugal role model. I don't claim to be a super star saver. I gained a lot from reading the blog even if I am not what some people would classify as a "true MMM disciple". You can either get behind people that are making big changes and moving in the direction of saving more and spending less or you can draw a line in the sand and hold your nose up at anyone who doesn't meet your criteria for being "righteously" a true MMMer. It's your choice.

With income tax I'm up to $46K/yr spending and if I add in $200K of home equity [my 100yr old shack is worth ~$500K] my FIRE target is ~$1.35M. That's a shit ton of money. But without finding the MMM blog I would never even have realized there was a FIRE number to shoot for and if I did my target would be more like $3M which would be out of reach in any reasonable timeframe given my age and NW when I found MMM.

So I appreciate the blog and forum a lot. I got a lot out of both even if a member of the community thinks my progress on the path is not sufficient to be a real MMMer.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 09:09:57 AM by Retire-Canada »

wageslave23

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2018, 10:06:43 AM »
Me too.  Most of the responders expected withrawal rate is more than the entire mmm family of 3.  If you retire with a 30k-40k spend rate it's not because you are mustacian, you just made a lot of money.  It's fine, but I wouldn't see much value in the blog if I were looking to live that type of lifestyle.  My spending while working is only $30k a year and that includes $7k mortgage, $4k student loans, $5k property taxes.  None of which will apply in retirement.

You have to add MMM paid off house into the equation to find their true cost of living since not everyone has the ability to own a home at FIRE. That raises their COL significantly. You can also reasonably argue that MMM uses creative accounting to spend a lot more than his reported COL as side projects that get allocated away from his annual budget. This also raises the family annual spend considerably.

Personally I'm aiming for $40K/yr spending after taxes in Canada Bucks [one person] and that includes paying a mortgage. That's like $30.6K USD/yr. I'm not trying to be  frugal role model. I don't claim to be a super star saver. I gained a lot from reading the blog even if I am not what some people would classify as a "true MMM disciple". You can either get behind people that are making big changes and moving in the direction of saving more and spending less or you can draw a line in the sand and hold your nose up at anyone who doesn't meet your criteria for being "righteously" a true MMMer. It's your choice.

With income tax I'm up to $46K/yr spending and if I add in $200K of home equity [my 100yr old shack is worth ~$500K] my FIRE target is ~$1.35M. That's a shit ton of money. But without finding the MMM blog I would never even have realized there was a FIRE number to shoot for and if I did my target would be more like $3M which would be out of reach in any reasonable timeframe given my age and NW when I found MMM.

So I appreciate the blog and forum a lot. I got a lot out of both even if a member of the community thinks my progress on the path is not sufficient to be a real MMMer.

No judgement on my end.  I was honestly just questioning the relevance of a blog that mostly focuses on biking everywhere, driving 10+ year old cars minimally, searching for electricity vampires, DIY, and free entertainment.  I read ERE too and he's talking about living in an RV and making soap, so I get it - use what you can, disregard the rest.  It's just surprising that the core demographic finds MMM lifestyle extreme.

TempusFugit

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2018, 10:19:56 AM »
I don't know why I'm still surprised to see so many Spendy McSpendypants-es here...

Me too.  Most of the responders expected withrawal rate is more than the entire mmm family of 3.  If you retire with a 30k-40k spend rate it's not because you are mustacian, you just made a lot of money.  It's fine, but I wouldn't see much value in the blog if I were looking to live that type of lifestyle.  My spending while working is only $30k a year and that includes $7k mortgage, $4k student loans, $5k property taxes.  None of which will apply in retirement.

First let me be clear that I take zero offense at the comments. It is a legitimate point.

I think you have to consider that MMM has received a great deal of exposure in the past couple of years and many of us newbies are more (just a little) representative of the larger population than the core frugal community that constituted the community before.   Thats kind of a guess based on my personal experience.  My introduction to MMM last year was through a podcast whose core audience is most certainly not the same as MMM forums.  In a Venn diagram of the 2 audiences, i suspect only a little overlap. 

For the most part I think that there is plenty of room for people who may be on the less-frugal side of the spectrum. I dont think it is extreme, since i think the vast majority of us are still waaaay more fiscally responsible than joe q public, and we benefit from the reminders and examples we encounter here. 

MMM and his ilk have opened our eyes to possibilities that many of us werent really aware of because the culture puts blinders on us ( to match our work harness).  Getting that splash of cool water that shakes us out of it is a great thing, even if we focus more on how to leverage the investment math to reduce our time in service by 5 or 10 years rather than by 20 or 30. 

To further speculate, i think perhaps many others are like me in that bulding up the stash to ever larger levels is also a way to delay (yes) having to actually make the decision to retire and face the uncertain future. What would I do with my life?  How would i spend my days?  Especially as singletons as in this thread, perhaps it is more of a concern without spouse and children to share that time.   Once I actaully hit my FI number, I will have some soul searching to do.  Having a bigger stash target delays that decision.   


PDXTabs

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Re: Single FIRE number
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2018, 12:26:30 PM »
I don't know why I'm still surprised to see so many Spendy McSpendypants-es here...

According to your profile you live in Vancouver, BC. According to numbeo the average cost for renting a one beadroom apartment close-in in Vancouver is $1,450.23 US per month. Retiring on $750K US in Vancouver seems down right frugal to me. I don't know what I'm missing?

You're missing two things:

1. Mustachians aren't supposed to be average. Paying average prices is for suckers. We're supposed to find deals and do weird things.
2. A single person does not need a large, fancy, private apartment near the downtown core. And especially not if it costs that much!

You are welcome to live your life however you want. When MMM retired he had a paid off house to live in. That is way different than someone that has to pay rent for the rest of their life.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 01:13:19 PM by PDXTabs »