Author Topic: shut yer pi-hole!  (Read 5472 times)

solon

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shut yer pi-hole!
« on: September 16, 2019, 04:11:16 PM »
I have used an ad blocker on my computer for years, but it has some problems:
1 - some sites can detect the ad blocker, and prevent me from reading (e.g. www.washingtonpost.com)
2 - the ad blocker only works on devices on which it has been installed, but I would like it to work on the whole network

I understand Pi-Hole (pi-hole.net/) solves the network problem, by changing the DNS server of the entire network to pi-hole's DNS server, and blocking all ads on the network. But what happens when you're on a site that can detect ad blockers? Are you completely shut out of those sites?

EngagedToFIRE

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2019, 04:22:09 PM »
I haven't done the Pi blocker, but I can tell you that uBlock Origin is MUCH better about avoiding detection than AdBlock.  Washington Post is no problem for me with uBlock.

Just Joe

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2019, 08:27:08 AM »
I'm interested in building a PI-Hole but I already have some "security" on our network by aiming my DNS settings at OpenDNS for family friendly filtering of the web.

https://www.opendns.com/setupguide/#familyshield

Can I set this up so the router DNS points to the Pi Hole and the Pi Hole points to the OpenDNS DNS servers?


thedigitalone

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2019, 10:32:32 AM »
I've had a PI-Hole running on our home network for over a year now, it just works 99.99% of the time.

On the few sites that actually detect and block you because of the ad blocking (very few because it is at the DNS level and not the browser) you just login to the admin page and either disable the PI-Hole for a period of time (1 minute, 5 minutes, 1 hour, etc) or add the site to the whitelist and you'll get the ads and be able to use their site.

The beauty of this blocker is that everything, even cell phones, get ads blocked, not just the PCs on the network as long as they are using Wi-Fi and not cellular data.

jinga nation

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2019, 06:11:20 AM »
@solon Here's a related thread that may help: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/pi-hole-in-my-home-network/

PS. I have a WaPo subscription, no issues reading on PC/smartphone/tablet with the Pi-Hole in the house. You can also whitelist specific sites in the pi-hole. The best part is, you don't see ads in the mobile device apps, either replaced with a generic pic/banner or the screen space the app uses is increased (e.g. in free weather/game apps).

I've been using one since Jan 2018, works 100%, no issues. Even the one I've set up at my parents' house, zero tech support calls.

It also blocks ads and trackers on your Smart TVs.

LibrarIan

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2019, 10:39:39 AM »
I am currently trying to set one up, but have had issues. It seems like no matter what I do, when I switch to using the Pi has my DNS (as opposed to the ISP-provided ones), the Pi simply can't resolve anything. I have an open ticket with the Pi Hole people, but it's not really going anywhere. So far, I am very disappointed.

KBCB

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2019, 04:57:07 PM »
Following

jinga nation

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2019, 10:31:37 AM »
I am currently trying to set one up, but have had issues. It seems like no matter what I do, when I switch to using the Pi has my DNS (as opposed to the ISP-provided ones), the Pi simply can't resolve anything. I have an open ticket with the Pi Hole people, but it's not really going anywhere. So far, I am very disappointed.
did you set the DNS in your ISP router to the pi's IP? and did you set the upstream DNS to CloudFlare or Google or OpenDNS or Quad9?

https://discourse.pi-hole.net/t/how-do-i-configure-my-devices-to-use-pi-hole-as-their-dns-server/245

https://blog.cryptoaustralia.org.au/instructions-for-setting-up-pi-hole/
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 10:33:19 AM by jinga nation »

NorCal

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2019, 10:59:48 AM »
I haven't tried pi-hole, but I have had good luck with Disconnect.  WaPo seems to render fine while using it.

I'm also experimenting with AdNauseum, but haven't used it enough to fully report on it.  I like the fact that it randomly clicks on adds to generate dummy data about my behavior.  I hate the data tracking industry with a passion, so I'm very happy to do anything I can to break their business model.

thedigitalone

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2019, 02:44:14 PM »
The Pihole works really well, except on mobile devices that have their own connection so the ads can slip through.

I did discover that the current versions of Android have the ability to block ads!
  • Settings
  • Network and Internet
  • Advanced
  • Private DNS
  • Change the DNS mode to "Private DNS provider hostname"
  • Fill in an online DNS server, I use dns.adguard.com but they are many others to choose from.
Note, this may break some applications (games) that require ads to pay for their service and it won't block content served up from within a platform.

jinga nation

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2019, 09:45:52 AM »
The Pihole works really well, except on mobile devices that have their own connection so the ads can slip through.

I did discover that the current versions of Android have the ability to block ads!
  • Settings
  • Network and Internet
  • Advanced
  • Private DNS
  • Change the DNS mode to "Private DNS provider hostname"
  • Fill in an online DNS server, I use dns.adguard.com but they are many others to choose from.
Note, this may break some applications (games) that require ads to pay for their service and it won't block content served up from within a platform.

an alternative is to install pivpn (http://www.pivpn.io/) on the pi-hole. use a OpenVpn client on your smartphone to connect back to your pi. all traffic is now going via your pi-hole.

frugalnacho

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2021, 09:17:36 AM »
Zombie pi-hole bump.

I recently installed a pihole on my network and I love it.  It seems to block just about everything besides youtube.  Youtube doesn't work because youtube serves the ads up from their own domain, so it won't be blocked.  Almost everything else is blocked. 

I bought the raspberry pi zero W for $10.  I used an old micro usb phone charging cable to power it.  Installed the latest raspberry pi lite OS, added my wireless network the config file on the sd card, added ssh file so I could do headless setup.  Then I booted up the pi, ssh'd in from my laptop, and set up pihole.  Then I logged into my modem/router and gave the pi a set ip address, and changed the dns settings to point to my pihole.  Now everything connected to my modem uses the pihole as the default dns.  No ads on computers, mobile web, or mobile apps. 

The pi zero W doesn't have an ethernet connection, so it uses wifi.  I read mixed reviews about running a pihole wirelessly, but I always have the option to buy a $10 usb to ethernet adaptor to give me a wired connection if necessary.  So far there has been no issues.  I can't imagine how the wireless connection could bottleneck me when I have the pi sitting directly on top of my modem/router.  So far so good.

It completely blocks ads when streaming pandora.  This alone was worth the $10. 

EricEng

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2021, 09:44:23 AM »
I understand Pi-Hole (pi-hole.net/) solves the network problem, by changing the DNS server of the entire network to pi-hole's DNS server, and blocking all ads on the network. But what happens when you're on a site that can detect ad blockers? Are you completely shut out of those sites?
Yes.  My work implemented this a few months back.  Now any site that detects ad blockers detects this too and you can't turn it off for just that site.  So this is more annoying and cumbersome than a browser level ad blocker that you can turn off on specific sites.

Most modern sites have scripts that check if the ad successfully loaded.  Short of modding the code on the html page to remove the check, you can't bypass these by simply avoiding the ad load no matter at what point you prevent it from loading.

JLee

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2021, 09:58:48 AM »
I ran Pi-Hole for a bit but ran into some sites that it broke - it wasn't worth the hassle to sort it all out so I went back to normal ad blocker plugins. The nice thing about it though is it also blocks ads on smart TVs/etc that are on your network.

EricEng

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2021, 10:04:59 AM »
I ran Pi-Hole for a bit but ran into some sites that it broke - it wasn't worth the hassle to sort it all out so I went back to normal ad blocker plugins. The nice thing about it though is it also blocks ads on smart TVs/etc that are on your network.
Now that would be an interesting use.  Spouse loves to stream foodnetwork from their app on roku, but wow the ads are so bad (even after it requires a paid network service).  Like 6-8 ads for 3-4 mins 3 times in a 20 min show.  If it worked to block those and still streamed, I might have to give it a go.

Ichabod

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2021, 10:27:20 AM »
Yes.  My work implemented this a few months back.  Now any site that detects ad blockers detects this too and you can't turn it off for just that site.  So this is more annoying and cumbersome than a browser level ad blocker that you can turn off on specific sites.

Most modern sites have scripts that check if the ad successfully loaded.  Short of modding the code on the html page to remove the check, you can't bypass these by simply avoiding the ad load no matter at what point you prevent it from loading.
The PiHole blocks ads at the network level, when it sees your computer ask for an ad, it doesn't forward the request. Browser-based blockers sometimes do this too, but usually, they check ads by examining the properties after your computer has received it, but before you see it.

PiHole is harder for websites to detect. If the DNS server or ad server had issues, it would look the same to the website. I haven't ever seen an "ad-blocker" detected when I have PiHole on, but my browser blocker off. P.S. Disabling javascript will often block the script that checks for ad-blockers. There are extensions that put a switch next to the URL bar, and you just click it if you want to try with javascript disabled.

I ran Pi-Hole for a bit but ran into some sites that it broke - it wasn't worth the hassle to sort it all out so I went back to normal ad blocker plugins. The nice thing about it though is it also blocks ads on smart TVs/etc that are on your network.
I do occasionally run into this. You can manually add websites to the allowlist, which is admittedly a pain. You can also go to pihole admin and just turn PiHole off for five minutes, and it can turn itself back on again. It's two clicks and takes 30 seconds.

@frugalnacho I'm using a Pi Zero W as well. My Pi also sets next to the router. I eventually added the ethernet adapter. I was experiencing network issues, and after the adapter, the issues went away. I'm not convinced it was the adapter, and I'm sure it's dependent on the router.

JLee

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2021, 10:43:45 AM »
Yes.  My work implemented this a few months back.  Now any site that detects ad blockers detects this too and you can't turn it off for just that site.  So this is more annoying and cumbersome than a browser level ad blocker that you can turn off on specific sites.

Most modern sites have scripts that check if the ad successfully loaded.  Short of modding the code on the html page to remove the check, you can't bypass these by simply avoiding the ad load no matter at what point you prevent it from loading.
The PiHole blocks ads at the network level, when it sees your computer ask for an ad, it doesn't forward the request. Browser-based blockers sometimes do this too, but usually, they check ads by examining the properties after your computer has received it, but before you see it.

PiHole is harder for websites to detect. If the DNS server or ad server had issues, it would look the same to the website. I haven't ever seen an "ad-blocker" detected when I have PiHole on, but my browser blocker off. P.S. Disabling javascript will often block the script that checks for ad-blockers. There are extensions that put a switch next to the URL bar, and you just click it if you want to try with javascript disabled.

I ran Pi-Hole for a bit but ran into some sites that it broke - it wasn't worth the hassle to sort it all out so I went back to normal ad blocker plugins. The nice thing about it though is it also blocks ads on smart TVs/etc that are on your network.
I do occasionally run into this. You can manually add websites to the allowlist, which is admittedly a pain. You can also go to pihole admin and just turn PiHole off for five minutes, and it can turn itself back on again. It's two clicks and takes 30 seconds.

@frugalnacho I'm using a Pi Zero W as well. My Pi also sets next to the router. I eventually added the ethernet adapter. I was experiencing network issues, and after the adapter, the issues went away. I'm not convinced it was the adapter, and I'm sure it's dependent on the router.

If it were just me it would be feasible, but I am not always available to do such things for the other people in my house and putting that responsibility on them wouldn't go over all that well.

EricEng

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2021, 01:33:29 PM »
Yes.  My work implemented this a few months back.  Now any site that detects ad blockers detects this too and you can't turn it off for just that site.  So this is more annoying and cumbersome than a browser level ad blocker that you can turn off on specific sites.

Most modern sites have scripts that check if the ad successfully loaded.  Short of modding the code on the html page to remove the check, you can't bypass these by simply avoiding the ad load no matter at what point you prevent it from loading.
The PiHole blocks ads at the network level, when it sees your computer ask for an ad, it doesn't forward the request. Browser-based blockers sometimes do this too, but usually, they check ads by examining the properties after your computer has received it, but before you see it.

PiHole is harder for websites to detect. If the DNS server or ad server had issues, it would look the same to the website. I haven't ever seen an "ad-blocker" detected when I have PiHole on, but my browser blocker off. P.S. Disabling javascript will often block the script that checks for ad-blockers. There are extensions that put a switch next to the URL bar, and you just click it if you want to try with javascript disabled.
Old school ad blockers totally blocked the network request.  They had a black list of ad serving websites that they wouldn't let go through, although this died out when they started doing dynamically generated ad addresses.  Pi Hole DNS level blocking is just doing the exact same thing at a different step in the connection. 

Yes, for the website it can look like the ad site might be down, but usually they will have it try a few backups.  Website could assume they all are down or more often the website assumes rightly you are running a blocker and then blocks you.  I run into the most issues with news sites.  Pandora is a weird case in how it handles blocked ads, sometimes it is fine and sometimes not.  Their programming has always been a bit sloppy (big user for 10+ years)

Ichabod

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2021, 03:56:36 PM »
Old school ad blockers totally blocked the network request.  They had a black list of ad serving websites that they wouldn't let go through, although this died out when they started doing dynamically generated ad addresses.  Pi Hole DNS level blocking is just doing the exact same thing at a different step in the connection. 

Yes, for the website it can look like the ad site might be down, but usually they will have it try a few backups.  Website could assume they all are down or more often the website assumes rightly you are running a blocker and then blocks you.  I run into the most issues with news sites.  Pandora is a weird case in how it handles blocked ads, sometimes it is fine and sometimes not.  Their programming has always been a bit sloppy (big user for 10+ years)
I'm not sure if you're expounding or correcting, but I'll defer to you. I've not had any troubles with Pandora and Pi Hole, nor do I have trouble with the "turn off your ad blocker" popup, but I suppose that's likely because I either turn off scripts or avoid the website.

thedigitalone

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2021, 05:13:20 PM »
We've been using a Pi-hole for a while now.  The only issues so far have been the kids online class tools in a couple of cases, they just send me the domain or link they need whitelisted and I update the Pi-hole and it works. Well worth the tiny bit of hassle for never seeing ads anywhere!

frugalnacho

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2021, 10:46:13 AM »
I got a new LG smart tv, and it's incompatible with my current pi-hole setup.  None of the user agreements can be accessed with the pi-hole running - it must be blocking some domains.  I disabled it to do the initial set up, but every time I enable it the tv stops functioning shortly after.  The apps just won't load, even things that don't seem to make sense.  I run plex to watch some downloaded files I have, but the plex app stops being able to load a couple days after enabling the pi-hole.  Hulu, netflix, youtube, all stop working and just go into infinite loading screens or give me errors.

Ichabod

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2021, 11:51:27 AM »
I got a new LG smart tv, and it's incompatible with my current pi-hole setup.  None of the user agreements can be accessed with the pi-hole running - it must be blocking some domains.  I disabled it to do the initial set up, but every time I enable it the tv stops functioning shortly after.  The apps just won't load, even things that don't seem to make sense.  I run plex to watch some downloaded files I have, but the plex app stops being able to load a couple days after enabling the pi-hole.  Hulu, netflix, youtube, all stop working and just go into infinite loading screens or give me errors.

Two options I can think of.

1. You can try allow-listing the domains causing the problem. The pi-hole logs the calls being blocked and the device sending them, so when the problem is happening you can check that. Cons: It could be difficult to find the right-domain to allow or you could end up allowing a bunch of domains that you want blocked on other devices. Pros: You might be able to still block some stuff on the TV.
2. You can except the LG TV from pihole blocking with the pihole's group management. Pros: The rest of your devices are still behind the pihole, and your TV works. Cons: The TV gets to send all the traffic it wants.

It looks like you could mix and match by applying selective block-lists to certain groups using group management, but I doubt I'd put the time into making that happen.

thedigitalone

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2021, 02:54:13 PM »
I got a new LG smart tv, and it's incompatible with my current pi-hole setup.  None of the user agreements can be accessed with the pi-hole running - it must be blocking some domains.  I disabled it to do the initial set up, but every time I enable it the tv stops functioning shortly after.  The apps just won't load, even things that don't seem to make sense.  I run plex to watch some downloaded files I have, but the plex app stops being able to load a couple days after enabling the pi-hole.  Hulu, netflix, youtube, all stop working and just go into infinite loading screens or give me errors.

If you aren't worried about the ads just manually enter a public DNS server into the LG and it'll bypass the PiHole.

1.1.1.1 is popular
8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 are Google's public DNS servers

jinga nation

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2021, 12:23:53 PM »
I use Quad9 https://www.quad9.net/

IPv4
9.9.9.9
149.112.112.112

IPv6
2620:fe::fe
2620:fe::9

I have DNSSEC turned on in the pihole settings.

Hulu app will not play on my TCL Roku TV. It will only launch and display shows, any attempts to watch anything black screens. Must be some tracker that gets blocked.
Youtube, Amazon Prime Video, Netflix, ESPN Plus, Disney, Fubo, Sling, NBC Sports work without issues.

I haven't given the TV any exceptions.

jinga nation

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Re: shut yer pi-hole!
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2021, 09:22:54 AM »
just posting to add that if you are running pi-hole on a Raspberry Pi, make sure you update the Linux kernel. I did this last week, it was a major update (from 4.14 to 5.10.17). And also updated the Pi's Raspbian OS too (from Stretch to Buster). Noticed the my 3B+ is running cooler now, maybe more efficient processes on new kernel and/or OS.

Raspbian 11 (Bullseye) is out now with a new kernel. Not going to update to it for now.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2021, 09:28:01 AM by jinga nation »