Should we buy that cottage

[bernieb]

Well,

We have been frugal for 20 years of work and expect to retire in 10 years.  Although quite busy with our child, we am considering buying a cottage for the occasional use.

My frugal instincts are tingling every time we look.  We are in solid financial shape, no debt, 600 k stocks/rrsps and some 300 k cash.  Should we buy that 250 k spot????????

appreciate viewpoints from like minded people.

thx
bernieb

[Cap_Scarlet]

For me it depends on where it is (relative to where you live today); is it in a liquid market (i.e. could you sell it again easily); is it somewhere you would eventually retire to; and, would you be prepared to rent it out.

I have owned a second property for around 8 years, the first one was around 500km from where we live and although we said we would would go once a month, we were rarely ever there.  If you're not prepared to rent it out then actually you will probably find that staying in hotels would be by far the cheaper option!

[Deano]

My wife and I constantly talk about it. The conclusion is always it would be financial suicide. They are wealth suckers. Maintenance, taxes and bills will drain your money. If it is waterfront the taxes will be as spectacular as the view.

The one exception, possibly, to this is if you are purchasing to rent out in a very hot rental market. You may break even if this is the case, if you do it carefully.

I always like hearing from like-minded people too, but I seldom learn anything valuable from them.

[RoseRelish]

The real question is what does "occasional use" mean to you? 

I'd compare the cost of visiting a similar place via renting/hotels/resorts vs. owning a cottage. But if you plan to go enough that owning beats renting/hotels/resorts, then buy.

Nothing beats a family cottage. My wife's family has owned theirs for 40+ years. My uncle has one in the woods for his family. I can see how important having those memories can be to a growing kid (and their adults). The place becomes magical to everyone.

Best of luck in your decision.

[dkaid]

We have one and it's truly un-mustachian.  Really it is.  It has however pretty much saved our relationship (the quiet time away from it all).  We've started renting and have learned that the rental market is super hot, at least for now.  We are using a property management company as we've found that they command a high enough price to defray their outrageous fees.  All in all though you don't get a cottage for the financial benefits.  It's another house to maintain so don't minimize the effort involved for upkeep (even worse if you rent it out). 
But, I love our place and would make the same choice.  Even though it's not a financially wise one, lol. 
Best of luck,
Dawn

[Retired To Win]

I'm in the same camp as Deano and Cap_Scarlet.

In our case, we bought a cabin plus 100 mountain acres some 350 miles from our main residence.  Our plans to visit there never panned out.  And we were constantly worried about the place's security.  Luckily, we bought the place as a deeply discounted foreclosure and so were able to sell it off several years later at a modest profit.  But that does not change the fact that the "retreat cottage" plan went nowhere.

Also, we bought the place with the idea of turning it into our retirement home.  But we learned (the hard way) that the winters and the road conditions there would just not be acceptable to us.

In the OP's shoes, I would not plunk down that $250K for that cottage.  I would RENT FIRST (or even motel first) and see if I could log the visitation frequency to justify buying a place.

[Eric]

MMM's take:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/18/reader-case-study-the-black-hole-second-home/

[I'm a red panda]

Will you rent it out when not using it?
How much would it cost for you to rent a different property instead? 

To me- occasional use means rent someone else's property.  Then, if you want to go somewhere else, your money isn't tied up in a single place that you now HAVE to use.

Especially important if travel is required to get to the cottage- what do you do when airfare or gasoline skyrockets?

[o2bfree]

We bought a little cabin on a nearby island for $135k (cash) five years ago. Real estate was in a slump, and we got it on a short sale, so we didn't lose any mustache hairs over the cost.

It's a nice getaway, takes about an hour to get there, with half of that being a pleasant ferry ride, so it's not a hassle to pop over on a Friday night and spend the weekend. Quick, easy access was important to us because the traffic in this area is awful.

One pain of course is the maintenance. Even though it's just a cabin, there's a small yard and a side lot to maintain with mowing, brush cutting and weeding, so we're spending a few weekends in the early summer doing that. The place needs painting soon as well. We could pay to have it all done, but well...you know...

And of course the maintenance of our primary residence doesn't stop. We have a large yard and veggie garden, which have suffered some since having two places to care for.

It is nice to have a getaway, though. My DSO has enjoyed it most, as he's miserable at work lately, and the cabin has been a good place for him to decompress.

I'm ashamed to admit this, but also I do enjoy the status of having a "vacation home". "We have a place on the island..." garners oohs and ahhs from people, and offsets their impression of me as being rather poor (millionaire-next-door-poor, unbeknownst to them). Face-punch, I know!

However, we are thinking of selling it. Beside the extra cost and maintenance, we don't use it as much as we thought we would because most things we can do over there, such as biking, kayaking, and enjoying a beach, we can do on this side as well.

Also, we're not very social so we don't have many get-togethers there. If we were more social, that'd be a good reason to put up with the extra costs and effort, because it is a cool place to hang out.

I thought about renting the cabin out to recoup some of the property taxes, but after comparing our place to other rentals in the area I realize we'd probably have to fix it up before many people would be interested. There are lots of really beautiful rentals in the area for very reasonable prices. Our place is comfortable for us as-is; a bit rustic and with second-hand furniture, and we're not too interested in throwing more money and time at it, so we won't be going that route.

Take an honest look at how much you really think you'd use it and the potential for increased value vs. the cost and maintenance issues. I agree with Widerhaken that it could be a magic place if you and family/friends use it a lot!

[Aussiegirl]

One pain of course is the maintenance. Even though it's just a cabin, there's a small yard and a side lot to maintain with mowing, brush cutting and weeding, so we're spending a few weekends in the early summer doing that. The place needs painting soon as well. We could pay to have it all done, but well...you know...

And of course the maintenance of our primary residence doesn't stop. We have a large yard and veggie garden, which have suffered some since having two places to care for.

Take an honest look at how much you really think you'd use it and the potential for increased value vs. the cost and maintenance issues.

+1 for O2bfree's comment.

We own a place about 1.5hrs from the city, bought it as our future primary residence post RE.  We get there regularly and I truly do love it, but it is a costly luxury.  Its a complete second set of property expenses, plus a second set of maintenance to do (which sometimes makes it not such a "holiday" house).    I won't do it unless (a) you've got money to burn and you're happy to trade off a couple of extra years working (or 10 depending on the purchase and hold costs) to fund the purchase and ongoings for the length of time you're planning to hold it or (b) if there's a bigger plan such like ours - you're planning to move there in the near future and the right house just happens to become available at the right price.  If neither of those situations resonate with you, then just rent a nice place for the times that you want to get away.   You would be surprise how nice a place you can rent just for the ongoing property expenses, without thinking about the capital tied up!

[CU Tiger]

Do you have the time to visit it every summer for months at a time? Do you want to visit it every year, or will you want to go other places? If you rent it out, how much will you pay someone to manage it?

Our only friends with a beach house rarely go, maybe one week a year. Last year the plumbing went and caused $80,000 worth of damage to the house before it was discovered. They worry about renting it out for a certain number of weeks to cover their expenses.

Second homes sound like a right royal pain in the ass to me.

[paddedhat]

A large part of my personal FIRE sucess is a nice stack of cheddar made as a builder who specialized in building second homes. Having an inside view of the whole game, IMHO, I would never do it for myself. Several times a year I would hand the keys over to a family who thought they were heading for nothing but good times, and memories. At the same time the miserable old real estate broker I used would comment that it's all part of the cycle and they will be disillusioned, and back in my office to list the thing, typically in 5-7 years. She wasn't kidding, her record best was selling the same house five times over her career. Oddly enough two of my new homes are five years old and on the market. They were both $157K when new. Counting all acquisition costs, PITI payments, furnishings, maintenance and repairs, against net proceeds of the resale, I can guarantee that these properties will of cost the owners at least $60-70K over their ownership. Since they typically use the place 6-8 weekends, and one full week a year, their actual  costs per use could easily exceed $600/day.

Naturally, buying a place as a rental investment is a whole other game. In my region we never really recovered from the crash. I had looked at lots of supposedly "hot" rental properties to invest , but never felt the urge to jump at any of them.  Bottom line is that far too many of these end up relying on large amounts of borrowed capital, and anticipated long term appreciation, to make the numbers work. I have little interest in owning a high maintenance investment that returns a few points a year, at best, and will only bring a decent return when it's sold, maybe............... Might be a winning strategy for some, just not me.

[The_path_less_taken]

I was born in NYC.

But having a rural place to escape that hustle/bustle/crime/pollution is essential to my sanity. I love the city for the theatre/museum/music events.

And think having a place off the beaten path is in many ways worth what you pay for it. Especially if you think you might RE there one day, and garden and putter and watch the hummingbirds.

There's a red tailed hawk sitting on a tree 10ft from my front door as I type this. There were coyotes howling out back all night. I love that.

But for the MMM bottom line, I think you should figure out renting it out/property management/realistic expectations on what it will cost you. There are areas in the country where you can rent it out holiday weekends/spring break and pay your yearly costs just from that.

For that you need easy access to a fairly large city or some way for your client base to access the property: mid Alasksa isn't cutting it.

Like most things, only you can tell what the true value is to you. Follow your heart.

[Kitsune]

Can you rent it out when you don't use it? As others have said, the maintenance/taxes/etc are a KILLER. From what I've seen, the direct costs of a second house (maintenance/repairs/taxes - things you don't include in the monthly payments, basically) would tend to pay for a few weeks at a good hotel every year. The only people I've seen more than break even on a second residence live in cottage country, where a 3-bedroom, 5-bed cottage rents for 1200$/week from May to October. Other than that, it's a money drain.

THAT said. If you're planning on eventually selling your primary residence and living there full-time, there are advantages to buying (in a market that favors buyers, anyway, which depends on the location at the moment - still, 10 years gives you time to shop around for where you want to live). Then it depends on the specific numbers, in your case. But if your question is "is it ever a good idea financially to commit to maintaining a second home for occasional use", the answer is a complete and resounding no.

[LiveLean]

We pulled the trigger on a second home last summer and it's 841 miles away. But we have a long list of reasons that made it possible:

1. It's 1,300 square feet, barely a third of our primary residence, and we view it as our FIRE home when we're not living in a Sprinter van.
2. It rents well as a weekly beach rental from June 15 - Sept. 30 and we plan to keep renting it that way even when it's our only residence.
3. I knew the market very well since my family owned a home there for 20 years. I shopped patiently for six years and found a property that because of foreclosure and sweat equity is already worth 25 percent more than what I paid for it.
4. We spend 5-6 weeks a year there now and let family members use it as well. This is key as the property basically breaks even from a cash flow standpoint and is a slight loss once depreciation is included. Of course, if we didn't use it and rented it more, the numbers would be better.
5. I've traveled extensively and this is still my favorite place on Earth.
6. We pay dearly for the management company, but that makes it fairly low maintenance -- very key being 841 miles away.
7. It's in a state where we might want our kids to attend college. Thus we could change our residency quickly.
8. Since we rent it out and have several small lockable storage areas and zero clutter or excess stuff, we're all set for FIRE. We plan to offer our primary residence for sale furnished or have an estate sale, taking only clothes and laptops.

Bottom line: It should be something you really love, part of a long-term plan, and with numbers that work both currently and in the future.
 

[elgordorojo]

Admittedly I've never had an interest in owning another property too far from home (rentals are different), but we recently purchased our dream home.  Granted we are in an area where you can be in the country less than 10 miles from work, but what I've discovered is that owning and living in your vacation home is far preferable to working for your weekends.  Coming home every night to your vacation home adds a tremendous amount of peace and happiness.  We don't count the minutes to our weekends away and actually are finding out that it takes quite a bit to get us to actually leave our little slice of heaven.  I know not everyone can live their dream while still working, but if you can find a way to live your dream now, it far exceeds any weekend spent travelling to and from your second residence.

[Goldielocks]

I think a "cottage" can work out well -- IF you make it your only owned residence.

e.g., keep a rented small apartment in town, and the summer place (with the vegetable garden  / water access / other) is a full time warm weather retreat -- you live there for several months a year,.  by virtue of it having "space" and being "yours" (compared to a small rented apartment) you will go there much more often.

The capital gains on primary residence can help make this work. 
As other posted, no one wants maintenance on TWO properties. 
No one needs to own a property that they won't be living at for at least 12 weeks a year, unless it is a business investment.

[Guesl982374]

Run the numbers as others have said above in more detail. I always end up in the rent, don't buy camp on the second home.

 Be honest with yourself on how much you'll actually use it and realize what it'll costs you on a per day basis. Then also factor in the softer "I own it" vs. "If I rent, I don't worry about the property" aspects.

[gt7152b]

Admittedly I've never had an interest in owning another property too far from home (rentals are different), but we recently purchased our dream home.

Same here. We considered a second home several times over the years but the financial side of it never made sense. We could have afforded the payments and it would have been REALLY nice to have our own place to go when on vacation. There were just so many downsides and renting makes more sense because of the flexibility and lower cost.

Just this summer we have moved to our dream vacation spot and will retire here eventually. It's everything we want from a vacation home yet we get to live here full time. The big negative is that it's 3 hours from work for me but through a combination of working from home and careful planning I'll only make the trip once per week at most. I hate to be stuck with the super clown commute but that will disappear with FIRE or some negotiation with my employer once I've got more leverage by being a little closer to FIRE.

[Miss Prim]

We have owned a cottage in Mi. for over 30 years.  We bought it for next to nothing and have put very little into it.  It is 45 min. from our house and we use it every weekend in the summer.  It is lake access and the lake has a sandbar that everyone hangs out at on their pontoon boats.  We hang out with our friends and family.   We are going to put an addition on as we have a grandchild now and one on the way.  We own it with my SIL. 

I grew up with my parents having a cottage on a lake about 3 hours north of our home.  At that time, mothers didn't work and stayed up with their kids all summer.  We had a blast and I wanted that for my kids.  But, we didn't want the long drive as we were both working. 

I would say though, that it is not for everyone and can be a major money suck!  Our place is hand-me-down furniture and old towels, but no one seems to mind.  Some years we didn't use it as much and I would threaten to sell it, (as my mother used to do to us!) but I would have missed it tremendously and missed all of our neighbors and friends out there.

We are adding on so that we have enough room for grandchildren and our son and daughter and their spouses.  We are being careful not to spend too much, as I want it to be worth more than what we are putting into it.  We may end up living there down the road and selling our house. 

Really, unless you are getting a great deal, it is probably better to just rent somewhere every year, or buy a camper and rent a space for the season at a campground with a lake. 

                                                                   Miss Prim

Just wanted to add that owning boats is a whole other money and time suck!  We went through the nice speedboat stage and now we own a bilgy old pontoon boat that we put lawn chairs on and putz out to the sandbar and back.  No seats to cover, no maintenance other than keeping the old motor running.  When it conks out, we will replace with another old used motor.

[music lover]

Admittedly I've never had an interest in owning another property too far from home (rentals are different), but we recently purchased our dream home.  Granted we are in an area where you can be in the country less than 10 miles from work, but what I've discovered is that owning and living in your vacation home is far preferable to working for your weekends.  Coming home every night to your vacation home adds a tremendous amount of peace and happiness.  We don't count the minutes to our weekends away and actually are finding out that it takes quite a bit to get us to actually leave our little slice of heaven.  I know not everyone can live their dream while still working, but if you can find a way to live your dream now, it far exceeds any weekend spent travelling to and from your second residence.

I agree 100%.

My income was too low to ever consider a second home...not that I ever wanted one anyway. But, what I did do was downsize from 1800 sq. ft. to a 1000 square foot fixer with a 630 foot deep back yard. Slowly over the years I have upgraded it, including building a 16x 16 sunroom and 600 square feet of deck. I have positioned the fence and garage to provide complete privacy, and can enjoy it every single day and have none of the expenses, problems, or worries that come with a second property.

[LouLou]

We decided not to ever own a second home for all the reasons listed above - maintenance especially.  I know people with lake houses and cabins, and they always have to dedicate at least one trip a year to maintenance.  No thank you!  I already own a home.

We rent lake condos and houses with abandon.  It is great to grab a key, have fun for the weekend, and leave without worries in between. I spend 0% on maintenance at the lake and that's how I like it.

That said, I know someone who owns a lake house 45 mins from his house/work.  The lake is not well known so it's not crowded.  His family spends nearly every weekend there late spring through early fall.  If I lived in his city, I would consider buying a small property there.

[totoro]

We own a second home with a suite in a vacation town right across from the beach. 

It is used by us about three months of the year for skiing, summer vacations and I have work in that area so I stay sporadically.  We have traditionally rented it out when not there in the summer by the week at high rates and the suite from September to June on a low rate monthly basis.

Last year we netted $6,693 after all expenses except income tax.  If you add in the principal repayment (mortgage pay down) amount it was $24,400.

This year in January we started listing it on Airbnb.   Revenues are up 30%.  I expect we will net more than $12,000 this year not counting principal pay down.

What makes it work for us is my parents are in town and I'm there frequently.  in addition, we are in a great location for renting.

You have to do financial forecasting to make sure a second home will work if you don't want to have to pay out of pocket for it fairly continuously.  This means getting into the vacation rental business. 

The only other way to have it make financial sense as an investment is if you benefit from higher than investment return appreciation which is a crapshoot.

If you are looking to have a family cottage for emotional/memory/bonding reasons I think you just have to work the costs out and make sure this is where you want to put your money and go into it with your eyes open.

[DogChaseLane]

We just bought a tiny ocean front cabin about 6 weeks ago.  We are under no illusions that it makes financial sense -- we aren't planning to rent it, and I don't believe that we could resell it quickly.  We paid cash, and the taxes are reasonable.  So far I have no regrets. 

It's a hair under 2 hours away and the drive is pretty.  We've been there 3 times already and I think we'll go often.  It has been wonderful to just pile the dogs in the car, set out, and arrive at our little piece of heaven.  We are viewing this as our main reward for years of frugality and savings, yielding relatively early retirement and freedom.

We will see how much work the ongoing maintenance turns out to be.  One of the main attractions to us was how well maintained the cabin has been over its 100 years.  It is tiny, as is the lot, and our primary residence is small and pretty easy to maintain as well.

I can't tell you whether buying your cottage is right for you, but we don't regret buying ours.  Good luck!

[Argyle]

I own a second home thousands of miles from my first home.  Before going into this, I asked lots of people what the secret to owning a second home was.  They said, "You have to throw a ton of money at it."  They meant: perpetually.

I find that this is true.  For me it is worth it because the particular home I have has special meaning.  I put aside everything to get there as often as possible, and I adore it.  It is also in a low cost of living area, though the house itself is pretty high-maintenance.  You also have to make a lot of connections with local people and workmen so you have people at hand to check on it, fix it, mow it, plow it, etc. etc. etc.

The people I surveyed were all people who loved their second homes — because if you don't love it, you get rid of it rather than keep it.  I did find people with wonderful stories of second homes they'd had for decades or generations.  But you really need to be oriented toward that second home, or it will languish and be a millstone around your neck.

[KBecks2]

We pulled the trigger on a second home last summer and it's 841 miles away. But we have a long list of reasons that made it possible:

1. It's 1,300 square feet, barely a third of our primary residence, and we view it as our FIRE home when we're not living in a Sprinter van.
2. It rents well as a weekly beach rental from June 15 - Sept. 30 and we plan to keep renting it that way even when it's our only residence.
3. I knew the market very well since my family owned a home there for 20 years. I shopped patiently for six years and found a property that because of foreclosure and sweat equity is already worth 25 percent more than what I paid for it.
4. We spend 5-6 weeks a year there now and let family members use it as well. This is key as the property basically breaks even from a cash flow standpoint and is a slight loss once depreciation is included. Of course, if we didn't use it and rented it more, the numbers would be better.
5. I've traveled extensively and this is still my favorite place on Earth.
6. We pay dearly for the management company, but that makes it fairly low maintenance -- very key being 841 miles away.
7. It's in a state where we might want our kids to attend college. Thus we could change our residency quickly.
8. Since we rent it out and have several small lockable storage areas and zero clutter or excess stuff, we're all set for FIRE. We plan to offer our primary residence for sale furnished or have an estate sale, taking only clothes and laptops.

Bottom line: It should be something you really love, part of a long-term plan, and with numbers that work both currently and in the future.

Where is your favorite place on Earth??  If you don't mind sharing… 

[LiveLean]

Sandbridge Beach, VA

[Kashmani]

After years of frugality and obsessing about early retirement, we bought a cottage for $95K Canadian this summer. Our primary residence is an owned 1,400 sq. ft. apartment in the city.

Financially, this decision makes very little sense, and I have vowed to critically examine it this winter (in the off-season) to see how much it is costing us on an annual basis. The annualized cost is likely around $10-12K if the cost on a second car is factored into, which we would not have without the cottage. At $12K it's $120K per decade or $360K over three decades, which would represent approximately six years of a modest retirement. In other words, this cottage is pushing FIRE back six years.

On the other hand, as soon as I am at the cottage, I experience a deep sense of relaxation I have not experienced in many years. My apartment in the city is a 15-minute walk from the office, and the sense of relaxation experienced on an early morning at the cottage is unlike anything in the city. Birds are chirping, trees are rustling. There is no TV, and the children play outdoors all day and sleep like a brick at night. Playing with them, especially in the lake, is wonderful bonding time.

Lastly, I am in a profession where my schedule is unpredictable. I cannot book a vacation half a year in advance because I may have a trial or hearing. However, if something settles at the doors of the courthouse, I can easily take a week off. Being a one-hour drive door-to-door means I have the flexibility to come into the city whenever I need.

The problem is thus: Financially, a cottage never makes sense. It is a want. It is a luxury. It is an indulgence. But the fundamental flaw in our collective mustachian reasoning on this board is that we try to monetize absolutely everything. The experience of a cottage cannot be monetized. Nor can it be equated to a rented cottage somewhere, or to a vacation abroad. A cottage is, at heart, a refuge from the real world, a place to recharge. In lieu of monetizing your decision, think about whether the quality of life the purchase would bring makes up for the added time in the workforce down the road.

That said, I would not consider spending $250K on something that is not a personal residence.

[Dicey]

Full disclosure: I own a second home. I bought it as my retirement home, but IDK if I will ever live there.  It's in an awesome retirement community. I rent out the main house and reserve the "casita" (literally, little house) for personal use. I love it, but I would have done much better investing in the stock market.

There is a great discussion going on over at Go Curry Cracker (our very own Jeremy) about whether or not to own or buy your primary residence. I don't happen to share his conclusions, but I believe his position is 100% accurate in terms of owning a second house. Go check it out, it's an interesting conversation.

http://www.gocurrycracker.com/how-i-made-102k-in-real-estate/

[KBecks2]

Unless you are assured if big time appreciation, why not book a vacation rental every year or several times a year for escapes?  You'll likely pay less than what the taxes would cost on a fancy property.

[bernieb]

Thanks all for your feedback.  If I had to summarize it would be , don't buy unless you will use frequently (most weekends), could possibly rent when you are not there, and expect it to be a financial and maintenance burden regardless.



 

[h82goslw]

This thread is an awful lot like the "owning pets is anti-mustachian" thread. If getting away from your primary residence gives you that woohoo feeling and you can pay cash for it without ruining the rest of your finances or your life, do it.

[Bob W]

My wife had this idea once.   "honey,  we go to the lake a lot we should buy a cabin"   --- "okay sweet baby, so when we go to the lake those 6 times per year for 2 nights should we do the maintenance and cleaning for 6 hours when we first arrive or before we leave?"    ------ Hmmmm "nah,  let's just rent a place for the night and throw them the keys when we leave."

It is not just the headache of owning a second home,  it is not just the expense,  it is the being owned by two homes instead of one thingy.

You see,  once you have bought the place you can't decide to just go vacation or relax somewhere else or somewhere different.   You're stuck baby. 

She is also the person that says growing up she went water skiing practically every weekend.  Well it turns out she spent 3 of those summer weekends at her other dad's house (no ski) and spent 4 other weekends doing other stuff.  She actually only spent 4 weekends per year skiing.  But of course that was from age 8 till 15 when she had a job.  So in total her "We skied all the time!"   Meant she did so on only 28 weekends over 7 years. 

Sounds like you have cottage fever.   Only cure is to buy the cottage.  It'll only take about 3 years for the buyers remorse fever to set in.   Hope the market for cabins is hot then. 

[CU Tiger]

Thanks all for your feedback.  If I had to summarize it would be , don't buy unless you will use frequently (most weekends), could possibly rent when you are not there, and expect it to be a financial and maintenance burden regardless.

 

 I mentioned this thread to my husband, and he agreed that this is a case where some of us, including me, will say,  "do not do this," and others will say, "we love our cottage," and in the end you will do what you wanted to do in the first place. Because, in the end, it is your money and your life, and for some folks this sort of 2nd home has a strong appeal.

Has what we have said changed your thinking any?

[Capsu78]

We have friends from Norway where it is very common for a family to have a "rustic" cabin in the mountains, heavy emphasis on rustic. This music video, by the guys who made "What the fox say" released this and it was very popular and accurate in their minds- they were howling.

Um, not saying its not safe for work, but a bit of crude language:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua1FAlHt_Ys&list=RDua1FAlHt_Ys#t=0

The issue in Norway with the folks we know is many families have multigenerational memories of staying at the cabin and when you get married, whose cabin are you going to go to. 

[Goldielocks]

Now THAT's my kind of cabin!