Should I leave My Job?

[S0VERE1GN]

Hi all,

So to give you an overview of our current situation (my wife, 2 year old daughter, and I) we both have "good" jobs in finance. She works for a large company with an aggressive 401(k) and a pension. her salary is greater than mine.

My job SHOULD (emphasis on should) be about the same income as hers or a little more (I;m a wealth adviser for a large independent firm)  especially with my book of business which I manage.

Currently, due to a number of issues at the office (lockdown of the lead list, loss of internet and phone for weeks on end, shorting me on bonuses and commissions) I have essentially brought home enough to cover our daycare expense and the gas to drive here.

Thins don't seem to be changing, and if anything they're getting worse. Our manger had a solemn meeting with us today telling us to "step it up" which i believe fell on deaf ears as all of our earnest abilities to do so have been hamstrung by so many problems. The numbers don't lie though, and our company has lost as much money this first QUARTER as it lost all last YEAR.

Now, our firm is owned by a much larger company out of NYC, and they are not at all happy with our performance. As such, it wouldn't surprise me if they gutted the entire firm (we're a national client base and do all of our work over the phone) and moved the company to an area with a better potential employee base.  (we're out in the sticks right now)

I have a feeling that I'll probably be receiving a pink slip sometime soon, however It would probably be a full "termination" which never looks good on a resume.


MY OPTIONS:

1. quit Monday next week.  If i quit, we would still be in the same boat financially. I would essentially be a stay at home dad, and it would help facilitate our move int our new house (financing isn't an issue)

2. stay here, miserable, generally unable to make money thanks to the lack of support at the firm etc. and wait for a pink slip so I get unemployment, which may hamstring my ability to find another job down the road.

I'm leaning toward quitting because this company is FAMOUS for litigating everyone's (and I mean everyone's) unemployment claims.  also, a termination on my record doesn't look good.

Side Note: I've spoken in more depth with some of my mentors about the condition of the company (people i can disclose more details to essentially) and their first questions is always "are the going out of business?" as such, I know they would term me first and then go under, and I don't really want that mark on my record.


so what say you mustachians? enjoy daughter and new home while I search for new job? or continue to spend my time essentially paying for daycare?

Thanks!

[RMD]

Any reason why you can't look for a new job before you quit the old one?  If your wife is in a similar industry, perhaps she would have some leads?

I think any gap on your resume...even if you elected to leave vs. having it foisted upon you...will be difficult to explain.  I would rather explain a termination due to the closing of a site/office than explaining that I quit to be a SAHD and then decided I didn't like it.

[S0VERE1GN]

currently in conversations with their HR director to find a good position for me there. It seems to not so much be a case of "if" i get a job there, its more "when"

so that's already occurred.  Ideally I was trying to hold out until I at least had an interview at the place, but in looking at our finances it doesn't seem to matter much.

[Westoftown]

Do not quit.  Agressively look for another position.  You can explain the office closing. If you are laid off along with many others it doesnt look bad.  I have gotten new jobs after being laid off, as long as you have a good reason.

[RMD]

I know it sucks to be in a job you can't stand (I'm there now, myself) but I don't think leaving to SAH is the right choice at the moment.

I would seriously hold on until the "when" comes through.  Actively pursue any other options or avenues that come open to you and bide your time at your current job.  I'm not getting the feeling that you think termination/closing is going to happen within the next couple of days, so I'd hold out.  Does your current job come with benefits/retirement etc?  It might help you to think about those as compensation in addition to your paycheck...

[S0VERE1GN]

And I Would LOVE to continue to be a SAHD, but we're essentially trying to increase my income so that we can pay off our student loans (our only debt right now) If it wasn't for those we would both work part time anyway, or run our own business. Essentially since we're currently buying our first house (financed completely under my wife who has less student loans) and we're offering well below appraised value but offering a quick (3 week) close, it would be very helpful If i was "funemployed" at this time to move us, get us set up etc. The house is also less in "rent" than our current place we're renting, so it'll save us even more money, and we can pay down the loan more rapidly.


There's a lot of moving parts (as with anything) but the long and short of it is that I miss my daughter and this is a good opportunity for me to get to see her for more than an hour and a half before bed time every day for a while. It tears me up just thinking about it.

[S0VERE1GN]

My explanation for interviews was going to simply be (especially since I've been sales leader for the past 2 years)

"the company had simply stopped giving me opportunities to succeed as I wanted to, so I decided to end the relationship and aggressively look for other companies who are looking for a top performer like myself. "

If they pry then I'll tell them about how we didn't have internet for 3 weeks, no phones for 2, short changing me nearly 10 grand on bonuses etc. the list is so long...

I feel as though if i quit I can write the story, whereas The "closing" of the office would probably be more of a gutting of an entire under performing office aka fired for poor performance. I'm stuck saying that "i was terminated because the office wasn't able to match the performance numbers that our parent firm wanted to see"

a much less powerful statement.

[Norrie]

Can you get by on your wife's salary? Do you have enough skills to get another job if the position at your wife's firm falls through? How long do you anticipate being home?

While it's not ideal, I don't think that your career will fall apart completely if you have a gap in employment. Women who become mothers often have a gap, and while it tends to hamper their careers, a small gap isn't going to demolish it. If you're able to afford being a stay at home parent for a while and having some good time with your daughter, I say go for it.
(That said, I'm not in a field like finance, so I'm not entirely sure if the same rules apply.)

[S0VERE1GN]

Finance is a strange industry, as there are so many different facets to it. In honesty, I have no desire to stay in the Wealth Management field, and I'm looking at jobs in Analysis.  The reasons why aren't important, but essentially I find that the Wolf of Wall Street isn't too far off the mark, but more for fellow employees than clients.

I'm hoping to not only use this time to see my daughter, but also take part in the small real estate boom that seems to be taking place in the area as well. we have some extra cash, and there are a good number of foreclosures and pre foreclosures coming on the market that I could probably "save" using a loan assumption and the turning around to rent for a small monthly profit. If i can start making a small profit on that I could stay away from working for someone else completely, which would be ideal. (if anyone has experience in this, or some tips, please PM Me or email me! CharlesWManuel@gmail.com)

Essentially, especially since I'm so young (26) and I have a fairly solid resume, I don't think that this "gap" would be an issue. and our income "need" from me is fairly minimal. I would be completely happy bartending part time If i got to see my daughter more, especially if it opened up the opportunity for me to find investment properties.

[S0VERE1GN]

Also to answer your other question: if we take the little one out of daycare, we are  literally in the same boat financially If I have no income.

[Frankies Girl]

My explanation for interviews was going to simply be (especially since I've been sales leader for the past 2 years)

"the company had simply stopped giving me opportunities to succeed as I wanted to, so I decided to end the relationship and aggressively look for other companies who are looking for a top performer like myself. "

If they pry then I'll tell them about how we didn't have internet for 3 weeks, no phones for 2, short changing me nearly 10 grand on bonuses etc. the list is so long...

I feel as though if i quit I can write the story, whereas The "closing" of the office would probably be more of a gutting of an entire under performing office aka fired for poor performance. I'm stuck saying that "i was terminated because the office wasn't able to match the performance numbers that our parent firm wanted to see"

a much less powerful statement.

I personally don't see an issue of leaving now (with proper notice) since you can explain your leaving the current position as you said - the company is basically being run to fail. Screwing around with bonuses and connectivity and basic tools you need to do your job is a deliberate move on their part to try to force the failure of the location so they could close it. Having a short gap on your resume is easily explained - you were unhappy with your job for the reasons you already stated, in the process of buying your first house and you wanted to have some time to work through all of that and spend some time with your daughter while looking for a better job.

But I also don't see how you couldn't use that explanation if you stayed and were let go for the same reason. You aren't performing poorly on purpose - your company is deliberately hamstringing you and your coworkers so you either leave on your own, or they close the location for "poor performance." You can say that in any interview without coming across as sour grapes. I would offer your specific examples of what they were doing to hurt the ability to do your job, and not leave it up to the interviewer to "pry" as you put it. Stick to the facts, and anyone that interviews you should know that up until they started these practices, you were the sales leader.

[S0VERE1GN]

great point! obviously very true that I would mention i was the sales leader before that, but I feel as though its a weaker story? if you know what I mean. vs leaving of my own accord.

[Frankies Girl]

great point! obviously very true that I would mention i was the sales leader before that, but I feel as though its a weaker story? if you know what I mean. vs leaving of my own accord.

Think of it as if you didn't have the option of leaving - that you were very dependent on your job for keeping a roof over your head and food on the table... would a potential employer fault you that much for sticking it out and staying until the bitter end? Most people don't have the option to quit, so they have to stay until they find something else to go to, or get fired/laid-off and collect unemployment while looking for another job.

Potential employers won't care about the quit/let go part if it's clearly a situation where your performance wasn't the reason, that poor management and upper levels of incompetence caused the company as a whole to suffer. A big help to this would be if you have some quality work-related references, and have concrete indicators of your abilities - sales figures/goals, project overviews, whatever shows "successful and driven" in your field.

But it does sound like you really just want to quit. So really, if that's what is your first choice, and your spouse agrees and it really won't hurt to lose your salary... it will be okay. Really. Just do it "by the book" and turn in notice, be super professional and nice so no one can say anything bad about you leaving after, and start looking for your next (awesome) job while spending time with your kiddo.

[Norrie]

Is it a problem that you're posing this question under what I'm assuming is your real name? I would hate for someone to stumble upon it. (There's thankfully an option where you can change your screen name without having to start a new account.)

[Self-employed-swami]

Can I ask what your professional qualifications are? 

[totoro]

I would leave.  Your time with your daughter is something you won't regret.

As for getting another job right away, will you need one if your real estate venture pans out?  Have you done the financial forecasting.  Also, how are you going to look after your daughter and do the foreclosure deal?

I personally would do the business plan for a foreclosure and account for time you might need care for your child and all other factors.  I would also consider drafting a business plan for starting your own business as you mentioned.  You can do a lot of the planning and start up while caring for a child - I did.

[Tyler]

I've job hopped quite a bit, and IMHO people vastly over-think the "why did you leave the previous company" question. It's an obligatory question, and the only wrong answer is one that sounds petty, angry, or greedy. Whether you were fired or quit on your own, the best thing to do is to take the high road, never trash your former employer, and spin it into a conversation about why you're very interested in the new job.

Example (after I quit a horrible job after only three months):

"I totally respect company X for their success in the industry, but recognized that I wasn't a good fit in the culture that made them successful and I decided to move on.  But I've heard great things about your company and think if be a great fit here. Tell me about _____."

Basically, don't make a job decision based on what you will tell the next employer. This is a softball compared to convincing them you're the best guy for the job.

[bwall]

Frankies Girl is giving very good advice.

Specifically: "Screwing around with bonuses and connectivity and basic tools you need to do your job is a deliberate move on their part to try to force the failure of the location so they could close it."

Any other interpretation of the companies' action is naive, imho.

[ch12]

Frankies Girl is giving very good advice.

Specifically: "Screwing around with bonuses and connectivity and basic tools you need to do your job is a deliberate move on their part to try to force the failure of the location so they could close it."

Any other interpretation of the companies' action is naive, imho.

In your position:

Plan A would be aggressive job hunting, but you're already there.

Plan B would be to hang on for severance - a lay off isn't the same thing as being fired.

Plan C would be to become a stay at home father, plus self employment in a low-key position. http://retireby40.org/
http://rootofgood.com/
http://pretired.org/

Joe, Justin, and Nick have already jumped into the waters of leaving behind their 9 to 5 jobs. They each have some income coming in through some combination of consulting, blogging, real estate, investments, and freelance writing. It's a good position - they can spend time with their kids while still keeping up skills.

People who can sell are always in demand. If student loans are the only thing keeping you in a normal 9 to 5, then read http://rootofgood.com/root-of-good-household-spending/ .

[S0VERE1GN]

Thanks for all the information guys! this is one of the most helpful forums I've ever been a part of!

after long conversations with my wife over Easter weekend (and with my boss, things are getting better here) I think I'll stay on here for the interim, at least until i switch over to another job.

also changed the username. hah

[S0VERE1GN]

Can I ask what your professional qualifications are?

Series 65 Fin advisor, BS in business management and accounting, minor in econ, Sitting for the CPA exam this year.

[S0VERE1GN]

Frankies Girl is giving very good advice.

Specifically: "Screwing around with bonuses and connectivity and basic tools you need to do your job is a deliberate move on their part to try to force the failure of the location so they could close it."

Any other interpretation of the companies' action is naive, imho.

In your position:

Plan A would be aggressive job hunting, but you're already there.

Plan B would be to hang on for severance - a lay off isn't the same thing as being fired.

Plan C would be to become a stay at home father, plus self employment in a low-key position. http://retireby40.org/
http://rootofgood.com/
http://pretired.org/

Joe, Justin, and Nick have already jumped into the waters of leaving behind their 9 to 5 jobs. They each have some income coming in through some combination of consulting, blogging, real estate, investments, and freelance writing. It's a good position - they can spend time with their kids while still keeping up skills.

People who can sell are always in demand. If student loans are the only thing keeping you in a normal 9 to 5, then read http://rootofgood.com/root-of-good-household-spending/ .

great resources! thanks for sharing these. will read them at home for sure.

I'm definitely there insofar as replacing my income with some entrepreneurial things, Its just difficult to find one that doesn't get gobbled up lately. (I've run and sold maybe......5 online businesses/websites now?)  blogging is a definite possibility, but its the same parabolic curve of income that most investments experience...very little return in the beginning, and a much greater return after 1-3-5 years. 

My biggest thought is to look for some quality one family homes near our location, find some distressed buyers (of which there are many, the hospital just down from insolvency last month) and see if i can negotiate a loan assumption or a leaseback to some of these folks. I figure if I can grab 1-2 quality properties next year at a decent discount to the market, renting to some other professionals in the area will generate a great stream of income.

if you folks have a way that I can generate real money off of a blog in 3-4 months using about 10-12 hours a week I'm all ears. what I've found is that google's algorithms are fond of never ending content creation with the same keywords, and even then you're getting pushed to the bottom of the profit funnel in ad sense and so forth.

[chopper41]

You listed your email in one of the posts.  I would delete that.

[Thegoblinchief]

Does your kids really like their daycare? Unless they really, really do - quit now.

[ch12]

blogging is a definite possibility, but its the same parabolic curve of income that most investments experience...very little return in the beginning, and a much greater return after 1-3-5 years. 

if you folks have a way that I can generate real money off of a blog in 3-4 months using about 10-12 hours a week I'm all ears.

Real estate is totally legitimate and has more assured returns than blogging (having been a blogger and never having been a landlord, so grain of salt). I identify with Joe Udo (even though he's in a completely different state, +10 years, and a father), so I know that I wouldn't have the patience to deal with being a landlord. http://retireby40.org/10-reasons-not-good-landlord/

I'm not sure how much time Justin puts into the blog as a father with three kids, but in November (after starting the blog in September), he made $1,631. http://rootofgood.com/november-2013-blog-update/ December brought $1,508. Financial Samurai did a case study on Justin: http://yakezie.com/205064/personal-finance/no-more-excuses-as-to-why-you-cant-make-affiliate-income-online/ . You can find out more on rootofgood.com with his monthly updates.

[AccidentalMiser]

Start your own wealth management firm.

Don't stay in a job you hate.  If it really sucks, leave forthwith.  This is doubly true if there's no financial reason to keep working.