Author Topic: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work  (Read 7205 times)

cheapass

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Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« on: January 11, 2017, 01:24:45 PM »
My wife and I are about 8 years from FI/RE. The last 2 years we've really been getting into cutting expenses and saving/investing as much as possible so we reduce the amount of time we have to spend in cubicles. I've seen our net worth tracking on my spreadsheet, just as anticipated and I can see the crossover point in the future when we will become financially independent. I know it is achievable and I know when it will happen.

The problem is, I feel like I'm not "living in the moment" and enjoying the day-to-day life, not enough gratitude for what I have. I look at my Freedom Fund model multiple times per week, look at Mint several times per day, and can't stop thinking about how awesome it would be to walk into my boss' office at age 40 and tell him I'm done, I'm retiring.

I hate spending even the smallest amount of money because it extends my working career by a tangible amount of time. Everything that bothers me about work makes me think "I can't wait to be done with this shit." The thing is, I have a good job and I get paid a lot so I shouldn't hate it this much, it could be a lot worse. I know it is an unhealthy mindset but I don't know how to combat it.

Anyone else experience something similar?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 01:57:45 PM by cheapass »

mohawkbrah

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 01:34:03 PM »
im identical to you other than i don't have aa high paying job but it's somewhat enjoyable (the people more so than the actual work)

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 01:37:54 PM »
My wife and I are about 8 years from FI/RE. The last 2 years we've really been getting into cutting expenses and saving/investing as much as possible so we reduce the amount of time we have to spend in cubicles. I've seen our net worth tracking on my spreadsheet, just as anticipated and I can see the crossover point in the future when we will become financially independent. I know it is achievable and I know when it will happen.

The problem is, I feel like I'm not "living in the moment" and enjoying the day-to-day life, not enough gratitude for what I have. I look at my Freedom Fund model multiple times per week, look at Mint several times per day, and can't stop thinking about how awesome it would be to walk into my boss' office at age 40 and tell him I'm done, I'm retiring. I hate spending even the smallest amount of money because it extends my working career by a tangible amount of time. Everything that bothers me about work makes me think "I can't wait to be done with this shit." The thing is, I have a good job and I get paid a lot so I shouldn't hate it this much, it could be a lot worse. I know it is an unhealthy mindset but I don't know how to combat it.

Anyone else experience something similar?

If you have a "high paying" job AND your wife works.....maybe you could quit sooner?

If you have been investing and cutting expenses for 2 years already, why not figure out a creative plan to get out of the cubicle life sooner? With a high enough savings rate (75%) you should be able to switch to part time/seasonal work in just a few short years.

Guesl982374

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 01:59:01 PM »
Yes, similar situation here. I find keeping a list on my phone of the moments I do enjoy and when I am in the moment does help. Sort of like remember the good stuff and forget the bad. When I look over my 'journal' list I smile because I can remember the moments where I was happy/in the moment and I don't dwell on the bad.

I also find that I am able to exhibit a higher degree of confidence at work and am better able to push back on management/manage up because I am on a daily/weekly basis reminding myself that I don't need this specific job, I just want the job for a higher level of FIRE income: We could sell/invest everything and move to a LCOL country (still developed/1st world) and never work again. I tell myself that it a  choice to come to work every morning, not a requirement. Worst case is they fire me and I spend 3-12 months with our 1 year old hanging out while I figure out the next move.

samsonator54321

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2017, 02:21:01 PM »
I'm struggling with this too. I posted a topic in the "Ask a mustachian" section a day or two ago. There are a few replies that might help. The thread was "Help with work negativity" I'm sure you can find it if you click my username.

damnedbee

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2017, 03:16:45 PM »
I feel the same. As happy as I am to have this amazing goal and to see real progress, part of me feels like I'm just killing time. But I don't know if I can kill 10-12 years of time with this negativity.

I'm conflicted about my current job and keep wondering whether I hate the job, or whether I'd hate ANY job at this point because I'm laser-focused on FIRE.

friedmmj

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 03:44:13 AM »
I'm right there with the OP.  I'm in a high paying job working for a good company and I'm well respected among my colleagues, but I walk through the door each morning thinking how I can't wait for the day when I don't have to go to work.  This is a bad way to live for the next 7 years but I can't help it.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 04:40:29 AM »
I've been in that place since about six months ago, when I ran my numbers for the umpteenth time and discovered that I was minimally FI at that moment.  I happened to have been in the middle of a week off from work.  Most trouble I've ever had going back to work after a vacation.  I didn't FIRE immediately because I wanted to build a little buffer in case some of my assumptions didn't work out, and because I wasn't sure what was going to happen to the ACA.  I set 12/17 as my projected FIRE date, which now might be in jeopardy due to the ACA repeal effort.  But even if I have to work longer to fund more expensive health insurance, FIRE is still within sight. 

Multiple times a day, I catch myself thinking, "man, I can't wait to be out of here."  I can probably handle it for the next year (or two, if necessary), but I can't imagine being in that place for another 8+ years.  If I had that long to go, I'd need to find something more enjoyable to focus on.

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 05:00:08 AM »
I was at that point up until I fire'd which took about 3 years once I made the decision. Depending on your personality the only thing that will change if your looking at your numbers on mint everyday is when you Fire you will worry about you plan holding up and or having enough money and did you do the right thing. The longer you go the less you will feel that way. I agree that perhaps put the focus on what can I do to shorten the time before I can Fire. Good Luck!

SachaFiscal

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2017, 07:03:30 AM »
I would recommend setting smaller intermediary goals that are attainable in the short term.  If you start feeling impatient or sad that your end date is so far away then don't visit the finance forums or look at your spreadsheets for a whil. Instead focus on learning something new or getting physically fit or doing something good for someone else (volunteer). That will be fulfilling and improve your outlook.

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2017, 09:29:19 AM »
You're not alone.  I went through a period of really hating work shortly after learning about FIRE, and now that hate has shifted to apathy.  I'm not sure which is worse.  I'm not motivated to do anything at work right now.  Stealing a line from Office Space, "it's not that I'm lazy, it's just that I don't care" ;).

I've got some free time I could be using to learn new skills which might help me get a new job.  But I don't know if I'd like a new job any better than the one I've got right now.  I've looked around a bit, and most of the jobs I could potentially get seem to offer even less freedom (which is what I really want) than the limited amount I have in my current job.  Plus, these positions are lower paying.  I'm not wild about the idea of sacrificing both freedom and pay in the hopes of possibly finding a job I like more.

I have 8 years to go at my current pace.

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2017, 09:59:56 AM »
I'm 26 and about a decade away from financial independence, but I think what you're describing is something just about everyone on this forum struggles with at some point.

Personally, and this may not be the most popular answer around here, but I've found that taking more frequent vacations helps with this. The costs may push back my retirement date by a year or so, but for me this really helps balance between that feeling of "not living in the moment" while also saving as much as possible every other day of the year. And there are always way to take time off more frugally; I think it's about the break more than any fancy pants destinations.

This doesn't really get down to the core issue of guilt related to any and all spending, though. I think the only solution to that is that realizing if you're not living in a tent eating rice every night, you've already built some lavish luxuries into your lifestyle. At some point we all have to accept that there is some spending which does help keep us sane, and not get to feeling too guilty about this fact.

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2017, 10:18:09 AM »
+1 to everything that has already been said, there is a lot of really good motivational stuff in here... Such a great forum : )

I too struggle with this... For me, I find myself looking myself in the mirror a lot and reminding myself how good I really have things. Its important to remember a lot of people really don't like their job, but do it and do them well. Also, without this job, it may take even longer. I have to tell myself, don't screw this up, you are so close!

The quote "Never follow your passion, but always bring it with you,” - Mike Rowe... Makes me remember, its important for me to always have a passion for doing a job well, no matter if I like it or not. Someone is paying me good money, I owe them my best everyday in exchange.

WildJager

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2017, 10:48:59 AM »
I know the feeling.  I'm in the military and so my job description changes often.  I love my core job when I get to do it (which is more and more rare as I move up in rank), but frankly I hate most of the other work I do.  The problem for me is, we've reached and well surpassed our FIRE number.  At this point, we just keep adding more and more to our stash almost pointlessly.  Problem is, because of our commitment we can't quit for another 4 years. 

It's not a horrible job, but there are so many other things I'd love to be doing with my time.  I'm focusing on being better about not wasting my free time to compensate.  After work, instead of just vegging out like I'd like to do after a long day, I have been forcing myself to do something that I would have rather done during the day than go to work.  Hiking, learning how to play music, cooking a lavish meal, build some furniture etc.  The way I see it is I'm developing the skills I'll need for when I eventually do retire so I can hit the ground running instead of having to start at square one.

But some days just suck when I'm sitting at a desk manipulating spreadsheets and lamenting the fact that I'm going to be at a 1.5% WR when I can eventually leave.  What a waste of time.  At least I'll never really have to worry about market volatility and tightening my belt during lean years.

cheapass

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2017, 10:06:30 AM »
You're not alone.  I went through a period of really hating work shortly after learning about FIRE, and now that hate has shifted to apathy.  I'm not sure which is worse.  I'm not motivated to do anything at work right now.  Stealing a line from Office Space, "it's not that I'm lazy, it's just that I don't care" ;).

I've got some free time I could be using to learn new skills which might help me get a new job.  But I don't know if I'd like a new job any better than the one I've got right now.  I've looked around a bit, and most of the jobs I could potentially get seem to offer even less freedom (which is what I really want) than the limited amount I have in my current job.  Plus, these positions are lower paying.  I'm not wild about the idea of sacrificing both freedom and pay in the hopes of possibly finding a job I like more.

I have 8 years to go at my current pace.

Wow, you and I are like the same person. I've also had that Office Space quote scrolling through my head when I think about how I don't give a shit.

My job outlook is exactly the same as yours. I have a reasonable commute, get paid a lot, and work 40 hours a week (max). If I were to go somewhere I think the grass is greener I'm going to likely work more hours, have a shittier commute, and get paid less money. GREAT!!! Plus, I read the job descriptions and halfway through I think "that sounds so stupid and exhausting."

Schaefer Light

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2017, 10:23:47 AM »
You're not alone.  I went through a period of really hating work shortly after learning about FIRE, and now that hate has shifted to apathy.  I'm not sure which is worse.  I'm not motivated to do anything at work right now.  Stealing a line from Office Space, "it's not that I'm lazy, it's just that I don't care" ;).

I've got some free time I could be using to learn new skills which might help me get a new job.  But I don't know if I'd like a new job any better than the one I've got right now.  I've looked around a bit, and most of the jobs I could potentially get seem to offer even less freedom (which is what I really want) than the limited amount I have in my current job.  Plus, these positions are lower paying.  I'm not wild about the idea of sacrificing both freedom and pay in the hopes of possibly finding a job I like more.

I have 8 years to go at my current pace.

Wow, you and I are like the same person. I've also had that Office Space quote scrolling through my head when I think about how I don't give a shit.

My job outlook is exactly the same as yours. I have a reasonable commute, get paid a lot, and work 40 hours a week (max). If I were to go somewhere I think the grass is greener I'm going to likely work more hours, have a shittier commute, and get paid less money. GREAT!!! Plus, I read the job descriptions and halfway through I think "that sounds so stupid and exhausting."

Yep.  I know that feeling all too well.  It's the biggest reason I'm still working the same old boring job.  This time of year really gets me down because we're in the process of setting goals for 2017 and "I don't have any" doesn't seem to go over well.  Actually, I do have one goal that's somewhat work-related.  Save as much money as possible so I can leave this job as soon as possible.  That one doesn't go over too well, either.

sisto

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2017, 10:45:33 AM »
I've read this thread a few times now and keep wanting to reply, but didn't really have anything really good to add. I feel exactly the same way. I keep having to self motivate and keep on keepin' on. The Office Space quotes are killing me thought and I just had to reply. They reminded me of a time, several years ago, that my boss' boss called me in for a meeting in a conference room. I was so nervous, I had missed some work due to a bad back and had only been in the group for less than 6 months. I couldn't figure out why he wanted to talk to me and was nervous. Fortunately for me this manager has a tell. So he starts the conversation with "so you've been missing a lot of work lately" I couldn't control my inner sarcastic self and replied, "well John I would say I've missed it". We both busted out laughing our heads off and then he proceeded to tell me he called me in to give me a really nice out of cycle raise. He knew my last group had screwed me over because I changed jobs. I have a really good job so I have no excuse for not liking it or not being as motivated as I should. I just feel like it's such a grind sometimes. Vacations definitely help and I only took one small one last year which I think is part of the issue. I was originally going to FIRE in 2021, but I've instead decided to wait until 2024. I plan to travel more and loosen up the budget strings a bit to live more in the NOW. I hope this strategy works because I can't go on like I have been just counting the days to when my life will be better because I'm no longer working.

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2017, 11:13:55 AM »
This is great! If you are asking this question in the MMM forum, I think you already know what you need to do...

But, I will say that the path to FI is not about staying put in bad situations to make the numbers work. Once you get some safety margins under your belt (no debt, emergency fund, money in investments, in-depth financial education, etc. YOU!), you are almost obliged to improve your life along the journey to FI.

As much as FI is about the numbers, it is also about the lifestyle. Don't let the numbers take you over, just make sure they are always moving upward, long term.

The MadFIentist shares your same experience—pushing dreadfully to that FI number— as his biggest mistake. Another amazing blogger, Mr 1500, who has $1.6MM in net worth seems to struggle with the same problem of working too much at jobs he doesn't to reach a number.

Think about it, if a few years from FI (and are obviously a badass Mustachian), you could easily take 3, 6 12 months off to enjoy a sabatical and re-assess life. You already have a solid safety margin already built up, and you can find (and deserve!) a better way to make your income.

I hope this helps! And keep us all posted!

cheapass

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2017, 11:50:15 AM »
So he starts the conversation with "so you've been missing a lot of work lately" I couldn't control my inner sarcastic self and replied, "well John I would say I've missed it". We both busted out laughing our heads off and then he proceeded to tell me he called me in to give me a really nice out of cycle raise.

LOL that is priceless. Thank you for the chuckle.

This is great! If you are asking this question in the MMM forum, I think you already know what you need to do...

But, I will say that the path to FI is not about staying put in bad situations to make the numbers work. Once you get some safety margins under your belt (no debt, emergency fund, money in investments, in-depth financial education, etc. YOU!), you are almost obliged to improve your life along the journey to FI.

As much as FI is about the numbers, it is also about the lifestyle. Don't let the numbers take you over, just make sure they are always moving upward, long term.

The MadFIentist shares your same experience—pushing dreadfully to that FI number— as his biggest mistake. Another amazing blogger, Mr 1500, who has $1.6MM in net worth seems to struggle with the same problem of working too much at jobs he doesn't to reach a number.

Think about it, if a few years from FI (and are obviously a badass Mustachian), you could easily take 3, 6 12 months off to enjoy a sabatical and re-assess life. You already have a solid safety margin already built up, and you can find (and deserve!) a better way to make your income.

I hope this helps! And keep us all posted!

Thank you sir, wise advice to consider. I'll have to look up Mad Fientist's posts on this subject.

My wife and I had a long discussion the other night and I had to recognize that my work situation could be (and has been) a lot worse. Also, it helps to recognize that I'm CHOOSING to continue at this high paying job I don't like in order to accelerate FI/RE. If I wanted, I could CHOOSE to go do something else. Nobody is holding a gun to my head keeping me here.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 12:38:08 PM by cheapass »

jjandjab

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2017, 08:40:57 AM »
I'm going to attempt to break the mold and not chime in with similar stories, even though I often feel like I can't wait to be FIRE'd either.

I would suggest, as you note in your very first post, that working on being more grateful can be very helpful. You need to look at your job as the thing that is allowing you to become FI, not keeping you from it!

Yes, you are saving, but you are only getting the money to save by working. While you can be negative and look at it only as a means to an end, you can also choose look at it as the activity for now that is going to allow you to become FI and live as you plan to in the not so distant future. As you note, you are choosing to stay at this job, so choose to make it more enjoyable.

Perhaps try to actually get more involved, not less. Think about ways to improve the work experience for you and your coworkers. Even just try a simple mindset of being more cheerful at the office, as hard as that can be. And if you are hoenst with yourself, and can't do that, then maybe it is time to move on somewhere else.

And everyone who aspires to FI at an early age should keep in mind that there could be reasons you want to re-enter the workforce that are beyond your control even with a well-thought out early retirement plan. Don't burn your bridges by being that progessively lazy, apathetic worker. What if you continue to be negative and pessimistic and a subpar employee, but the company/organization downsizes in 2-3 years, and you are still 5 years from FI - you want to be in a good position to have good recommendations and move on. Or even better, perhaps a better attitude and work ethic, you keep your job or you get promoted and you get to FI faster!

Don't obsess about your retirement accounts. That can only lead to bad, emotional financial decisions. They will be volatile in the short term, especially daily. Make a an investment plan and stick to it.

And last thing I might add, don't forget to occasionally enjoy your money. I don't subscribe to the school of scrimp away on everything. Otherwise after 8 years of doing nothing but saving you may continue the same mindset of  being miser who can't enjoy what he/she worked for...

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2017, 08:59:17 AM »
Every morning, think about three new things that are good about your job. For me it would be: I work indoors, I don't wear a uniform, I get a long lunch break.

Every day think of three new things. Write them down, or do it with a buddy to keep you accountable. Over time you will wake up with the automatic thought of, What do I like about my job? :)

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2017, 09:03:42 AM »
A few options for you:
1. Be miserable and grind through the next near-decade.
2. Find a new job. None of this "There are no other jobs that pay enough" or "Any job would suck right now". By doing nothing, you are committing to be miserable. By switching jobs, you would be taking a chance that things might improve. You have time and leverage (you don't NEED a new job) so shop around.
3. Chase a promotion. It might help to mentally reinvigorate you and you'd make more money.
4. Take a sabbatical. Recharge, think about life. You might come back hating work even more, but you might come back ready to power forward or even to think about down-shifting to part-time work rather than racing to FIRE.
5. Go part time. Many forum members in the Post-FIRE section have cited not taking this option as their biggest regret.
6. Get a constructive hobby. Something that makes you excited to be alive in the short term.
7. What are your FIRE plans? Given the increased leverage of your stash, can you do some of them today? If slow travel, take a month-long unpaid holiday. If starting your own craft business, cut down to four days a week and build your business on the fifth day. Don't leave happiness to future-you: use the fact that you don't need to spend your whole paycheque to survive to do what you want to do today.

Whichever option you pick, own it! You CHOOSE. Doing nothing is also a choice you make.

lifejoy

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2017, 09:06:16 AM »
Another thing I've done is tried to make the work life for the poor saps around me even better. Like planning surprise parties or bringing in muffins etc. It really helps to focus on others instead of yourself.

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2017, 09:26:27 AM »
I hear you. For me and my wife, we've decided one of us will quit working to be with the kids because of life. Together, we would have to work 8 more years. One of of us only has to work 13 more years. That's someone saving 3 years of life. Plus, we could switch roles later and I go back to teaching. Or, I could teach part-time when the kids are older, but the kids love hanging out with me now, so I'm most likely done at the end of this school year.

Listen to the people suggesting a sabbatical. It's a real possibility.

Nords

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2017, 11:04:07 AM »
I know the feeling.  I'm in the military and so my job description changes often.  I love my core job when I get to do it (which is more and more rare as I move up in rank), but frankly I hate most of the other work I do.  The problem for me is, we've reached and well surpassed our FIRE number.  At this point, we just keep adding more and more to our stash almost pointlessly.  Problem is, because of our commitment we can't quit for another 4 years. 
I understand the four-year commitment and the assignment officer's expectations.  But since you're already FI, let me ask a question that I wish I'd asked myself 20 years ago.

"What would happen with your commitment if you resigned from active duty (instead of sticking around for the active-duty retirement) and requested to affiliate with the Reserves or National Guard?"

I doubt that you'll find any guidance on this in your service's personnel or assignment manuals, because nobody ever asks the question.  (If it was an enlistment contract then I wouldn't even ask it either.  Officer personnel planning is a tiny bit more flexible.)  The reflex response for asking the question about a bonus contract is a spluttering noise followed by "...but you'll have to pay back all of that money!"

Since you're already FI, you'd only have to make your FI stash last until a Reserve/Guard pension kicks in at age 60.  (At the risk of belaboring the math, the pension is based on the pay tables in effect when you're age 60.  You could calculate a High Three pension in today's dollars, using 2.5%x<your current years of service>, and hope that military pay more or less keeps up with inflation until you're 60.)  You'd also throw in a small amount of income for "one weekend a month, two weeks a year".  Or you could even surprise yourself by discovering a billet that's worth a little more AT or ADSW.

I don't think you could simply submit a resignation letter up the chain of command tomorrow (although that would generate some interesting discussions).  If you have a polite relationship with your assignment officer (or any assignment officer, or anyone who's ever done the billet) you could ask them the question.  You'd want to know how they'd make it work if your specialty was overmanned or if you were an unplanned loss.  (They have to do this all the time for medical or physical disability retirements.)  Usually the answer is something like "We'd hate to let you go, but we could if we had to, and the big discussion is recouping the bonus."  The fact that you're committing to the Reserve/Guard (and not just going to work at General Dynamics or cruising around the world) would help the personnel staff feel that they'd saved face and honor had been satisfied.  They got their money back and the military still owned you until you reached 20 good years of Reserve/Guard service.

Another research project would be finding a Reserve/Guard recruiter who could figure out where you could get a billet with a local unit.  There might not be one in your specialty but there might be a number of general-purpose "any ol' field-grade officer" billets.

If you get any encouraging signals-- like the active-duty community managers would appreciate your volunteering to open up more promotion opportunities for others in your specialty-- then it's definitely worth talking with your boss about going to the Reserve/Guard.  The command's problem would be how long you'd been in the billet and whether they'd get a relief (doubtful) before your original end of that tour.

The chances of this all coming together are probably less than 30%.  The difficulty in assessing the probabilities is that you don't know what personnel struggles the assignment officer is dealing with (because they don't want the public discussion) and because you might not be able to find a suitable Reserve/Guard billet.  If you can answer those questions, though, and present a pre-packaged solution to the chain of command, they might actually support your decision.

I'm only bringing this up because I keenly understand the morale erosion of a four-year commitment and the corrosive effect it has on your soul.  In retrospect, my frequent bicycle commuting on a 24-mile round trip probably saved my blood pressure.

Of course your XO would immediately give you the crappy jobs for the rest of your time on active duty, and your performance ranking would plummet to the bottom of your ranking group.  But the Reserve/Guard forces are used to seeing that from someone who comes to their unit from active duty, especially beyond 12 years of service.

Personally, I applied for the 1990s drawdown TERA program three times before my assignment officer admitted that they'd cut too deep and had to keep everyone, bonus contract or no bonus contract.  In exchange, they agreed to continue me on active duty until 20 and to extend me in my billet at a training command for nearly a five-year tour.  I still should've resigned for the Reserves, but I was ignorant & scared and the compromise was "good enough".  Yet the interesting point was that I actually had a discussion with my CO and BUPERS based on the understanding that I already had enough money and was seeking a better quality of life.

A few years later when my active-duty spouse got into the same issues with her assignment officer, we already knew enough about the Reserves for her to make the choice to resign.  Nobody in her chain of command could understand the concept of "we have enough money", and she tremendously enjoyed her time in the Reserves.  She even kept drilling because she got a great independent-duty billet. 

And of course our whole family reaped the benefits of her quality of life and her happiness.


sisto

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2017, 11:20:37 AM »
So he starts the conversation with "so you've been missing a lot of work lately" I couldn't control my inner sarcastic self and replied, "well John I would say I've missed it". We both busted out laughing our heads off and then he proceeded to tell me he called me in to give me a really nice out of cycle raise.

LOL that is priceless. Thank you for the chuckle.

This is great! If you are asking this question in the MMM forum, I think you already know what you need to do...

But, I will say that the path to FI is not about staying put in bad situations to make the numbers work. Once you get some safety margins under your belt (no debt, emergency fund, money in investments, in-depth financial education, etc. YOU!), you are almost obliged to improve your life along the journey to FI.

As much as FI is about the numbers, it is also about the lifestyle. Don't let the numbers take you over, just make sure they are always moving upward, long term.

The MadFIentist shares your same experience—pushing dreadfully to that FI number— as his biggest mistake. Another amazing blogger, Mr 1500, who has $1.6MM in net worth seems to struggle with the same problem of working too much at jobs he doesn't to reach a number.

Think about it, if a few years from FI (and are obviously a badass Mustachian), you could easily take 3, 6 12 months off to enjoy a sabatical and re-assess life. You already have a solid safety margin already built up, and you can find (and deserve!) a better way to make your income.

I hope this helps! And keep us all posted!

Thank you sir, wise advice to consider. I'll have to look up Mad Fientist's posts on this subject.

My wife and I had a long discussion the other night and I had to recognize that my work situation could be (and has been) a lot worse. Also, it helps to recognize that I'm CHOOSING to continue at this high paying job I don't like in order to accelerate FI/RE. If I wanted, I could CHOOSE to go do something else. Nobody is holding a gun to my head keeping me here.
Glad you got a good laugh. I really loved working on that team and I think part of my problem now is that I don't have a fun team like that anymore. One other time in my career at MegaCorp we had a group almost that good, of course it was with the same manager. Good managers really make a difference and he is not just a good manager, he's an amazing one.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2017, 12:10:55 PM »
If you have a decent paying job in a free country, then you need to figure out how to get to the place that you are ok with the equation:  8-10 hours of unsatisfying work pays for 14-16 hours of an awesome free life plus comfortable and safe sleep.  If those hours aren't awesome then work is not your problem and FIRE will not fix it.  If work is encroaching on those other 14-16 hours due to unreasonable hours or stress or depression, I think you need to think about a new job (most people who get fired find another job, its not the hardest thing in the world. 

If work is fine:  then buck up.  FIRE is a special treat that is not easily earned. 

If you start feeling sorry for yourself watch a good movie such as: Schindler's list, Cry Freedom, any Vietnam movie, or, hell, any St. Jude's commercial, and tomorrow will seem pretty sweet....

WildJager

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2017, 01:21:46 PM »
I know the feeling.  I'm in the military and so my job description changes often.  I love my core job when I get to do it (which is more and more rare as I move up in rank), but frankly I hate most of the other work I do.  The problem for me is, we've reached and well surpassed our FIRE number.  At this point, we just keep adding more and more to our stash almost pointlessly.  Problem is, because of our commitment we can't quit for another 4 years. 
I understand the four-year commitment and the assignment officer's expectations.  But since you're already FI, let me ask a question that I wish I'd asked myself 20 years ago.

"What would happen with your commitment if you resigned from active duty (instead of sticking around for the active-duty retirement) and requested to affiliate with the Reserves or National Guard?"

I doubt that you'll find any guidance on this in your service's personnel or assignment manuals, because nobody ever asks the question.  (If it was an enlistment contract then I wouldn't even ask it either.  Officer personnel planning is a tiny bit more flexible.)  The reflex response for asking the question about a bonus contract is a spluttering noise followed by "...but you'll have to pay back all of that money!"

Since you're already FI, you'd only have to make your FI stash last until a Reserve/Guard pension kicks in at age 60.  (At the risk of belaboring the math, the pension is based on the pay tables in effect when you're age 60.  You could calculate a High Three pension in today's dollars, using 2.5%x<your current years of service>, and hope that military pay more or less keeps up with inflation until you're 60.)  You'd also throw in a small amount of income for "one weekend a month, two weeks a year".  Or you could even surprise yourself by discovering a billet that's worth a little more AT or ADSW.

I don't think you could simply submit a resignation letter up the chain of command tomorrow (although that would generate some interesting discussions).  If you have a polite relationship with your assignment officer (or any assignment officer, or anyone who's ever done the billet) you could ask them the question.  You'd want to know how they'd make it work if your specialty was overmanned or if you were an unplanned loss.  (They have to do this all the time for medical or physical disability retirements.)  Usually the answer is something like "We'd hate to let you go, but we could if we had to, and the big discussion is recouping the bonus."  The fact that you're committing to the Reserve/Guard (and not just going to work at General Dynamics or cruising around the world) would help the personnel staff feel that they'd saved face and honor had been satisfied.  They got their money back and the military still owned you until you reached 20 good years of Reserve/Guard service.

Another research project would be finding a Reserve/Guard recruiter who could figure out where you could get a billet with a local unit.  There might not be one in your specialty but there might be a number of general-purpose "any ol' field-grade officer" billets.

If you get any encouraging signals-- like the active-duty community managers would appreciate your volunteering to open up more promotion opportunities for others in your specialty-- then it's definitely worth talking with your boss about going to the Reserve/Guard.  The command's problem would be how long you'd been in the billet and whether they'd get a relief (doubtful) before your original end of that tour.

The chances of this all coming together are probably less than 30%.  The difficulty in assessing the probabilities is that you don't know what personnel struggles the assignment officer is dealing with (because they don't want the public discussion) and because you might not be able to find a suitable Reserve/Guard billet.  If you can answer those questions, though, and present a pre-packaged solution to the chain of command, they might actually support your decision.

I'm only bringing this up because I keenly understand the morale erosion of a four-year commitment and the corrosive effect it has on your soul.  In retrospect, my frequent bicycle commuting on a 24-mile round trip probably saved my blood pressure.

Of course your XO would immediately give you the crappy jobs for the rest of your time on active duty, and your performance ranking would plummet to the bottom of your ranking group.  But the Reserve/Guard forces are used to seeing that from someone who comes to their unit from active duty, especially beyond 12 years of service.

Personally, I applied for the 1990s drawdown TERA program three times before my assignment officer admitted that they'd cut too deep and had to keep everyone, bonus contract or no bonus contract.  In exchange, they agreed to continue me on active duty until 20 and to extend me in my billet at a training command for nearly a five-year tour.  I still should've resigned for the Reserves, but I was ignorant & scared and the compromise was "good enough".  Yet the interesting point was that I actually had a discussion with my CO and BUPERS based on the understanding that I already had enough money and was seeking a better quality of life.

A few years later when my active-duty spouse got into the same issues with her assignment officer, we already knew enough about the Reserves for her to make the choice to resign.  Nobody in her chain of command could understand the concept of "we have enough money", and she tremendously enjoyed her time in the Reserves.  She even kept drilling because she got a great independent-duty billet. 

And of course our whole family reaped the benefits of her quality of life and her happiness.

Hi Nords.  Thanks for the input, very actionable advice for a lot of people in the military.

Unfortunately for my situation, the commitment is derived from being a pilot.  10 years is a long time, but understandable given the level of training.  I'm sure you've brushed up on the news of the impending pilot shortage the Air Force is anticipating, and looking around at my peers I understand why.  Many of them are chomping at the bit to Palace Chase to the guard/reserves and then secure a cushy airline gig.  As a result, AFPC generally does not let people out of these commitments. 

Even though I'll only have 8 years left to secure the active duty retirement after my commitment is up, that's still 12 years from now and I'm already burnt out.  So, I've made the decision to most likely separate when I can (at the very least I won't be taking any bonus, so I can walk away whenever I want).  As far as the guard and reserves, I may try them out depending on where we choose to settle down.  If I could work with them to mostly fly, that would be great for me.  I love the flying aspect, but unfortunately the office work is not my cup of tea.  15 years of these current wars have changed the Air Force quite a bit according to some of the old timers I know, mostly for the worse.  Unfortunate, but it is what it is. 

Thanks again!  And my daily bike commute helps my blood pressure some days too!

Dicey

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2017, 01:31:46 PM »
Funny, I was hoping Nords would chime in on this one and as always, he did not disappoint. I am not military, but my BIL is. In totally layman's terms (mostly), when he switched to the Reserves after the Naval Academy and at least a dozen years of active duty, he wanted to continue in his very specialized field. (They had a surprise baby and he did not want to be separated from his family for long periods.) They lived in Virginia, but had once been stationed in Long Beach, CA. He got a Reserve job there and commuted from VA once a month. He booked on Southwest well in advance to keep costs down. He finished as a Commander and is now, predictably, working for a contractor back in VA. He was very happy with this atypical arrangement.

MisterTwoForty

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2017, 01:44:47 PM »
I was in the same boat about 4 months ago.  I discovered MMM and FIRE after my family finished up the Dave Ramsey debt pay off method about a year ago.

I realized that with all this extra disposable income that I could use to retire very early.  I ran all kinds of scenarios and shortly there after put a plan in action.

I began to really dislike my job for a myriad of reasons, but ultimately they forced my hand.  After not having a job for several months, I realized that having a steady income was my only path to FIRE.  Now that I'm back to work I'm counting my blessings. 

Ryland

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2017, 08:39:42 PM »
Quote
Thank you sir, wise advice to consider. I'll have to look up Mad Fientist's posts on this subject.

My wife and I had a long discussion the other night and I had to recognize that my work situation could be (and has been) a lot worse. Also, it helps to recognize that I'm CHOOSING to continue at this high paying job I don't like in order to accelerate FI/RE. If I wanted, I could CHOOSE to go do something else. Nobody is holding a gun to my head keeping me here.

:) You're gunna kill it. Take the leap, and watch how everything improves. You've built all the safety margins needed to start enjoying life, and continue your path to FI in a more enjoyable way. Good luck!

Nords

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2017, 10:55:51 AM »
Funny, I was hoping Nords would chime in on this one and as always, he did not disappoint.
Thanks, Diane!

When my spouse went to the Reserves our quality of life got a huge, immediate, and surprisingly satisfying boost.

GardenerB

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2017, 12:38:28 PM »
I too have been experiencing this since finding MMM and other FIRE sites.

I also read through Samsonators post on getting help with negativity.

I may be a few more years along at 45 now, but similar struggles.  I review finances, look at the stash, etc.  Then I try to forget about it- dump all the site and forums for a week or so and pay attention to work.  Mostly out of guilt because all my colleagues are my age and working so diligently.  Mind you they all have bought new cars (BMW, Lexus, etc) to replace their perfectly good 'old' cars, while I am still on my bike and haven't owned a car for 12 years now.  Each to their own.

I agree with other posters here.  Thankful for the good parts: well-paid STEM-related job, lots of perks, flexible work schedule, bonuses etc.  I'm mid-way between 'be thankful you have any job' and 'life's too short- quit and find something else'.  So I stick to being practical- build the stash up, emergency fund, FIRE  savings etc.  And then if something happens you have a cushion.

Ironically my company was sold to a bigger one, which now has a layoff/re-org every year, sometimes twice a year.  It demoralizes people so much that they care less each re-org.  They'll take a group with 2 people, fire one, and dump the workload on the 1 remaining person.  It makes people work less in fact since, hey, maybe I'm next anyway.  It's made me get out and do even more after work hobbies and interests, which is a good thing.

Driko

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2017, 08:56:39 PM »
I'm 26 and about a decade away from financial independence, but I think what you're describing is something just about everyone on this forum struggles with at some point.

Personally, and this may not be the most popular answer around here, but I've found that taking more frequent vacations helps with this. The costs may push back my retirement date by a year or so, but for me this really helps balance between that feeling of "not living in the moment" while also saving as much as possible every other day of the year. And there are always way to take time off more frugally; I think it's about the break more than any fancy pants destinations.

This doesn't really get down to the core issue of guilt related to any and all spending, though. I think the only solution to that is that realizing if you're not living in a tent eating rice every night, you've already built some lavish luxuries into your lifestyle. At some point we all have to accept that there is some spending which does help keep us sane, and not get to feeling too guilty about this fact.

+1

A question I read on here a while back really hit home for me and that was: What do you plan to do when you retire? If you are looking forward to travel and sacrificing that now to reach FIRE sooner, you are probably missing out on the life you really seek. I work in healthcare and see people die at all ages pretty frequently. No one is guaranteed their next 10 minutes. I'm not saying to live totally in the moment and disregard your future, but you should try to focus more on your happiness today. I would rather work a couple extra years and actually enjoy the next 8-10 years instead of grinding out a quick 6 year miserable life where you have to sacrifice everything you enjoy. Find balance in all things :)

Mezzie

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Re: Seeing FIRE on the horizon has made me hate work
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2017, 06:15:15 AM »
Can you put your FIRE plans on autopilot so you don't have to think about it as much? If you have your plan in place, have automatic transfers/deductions for your retirement and investment accounts, and have made being frugal a habit, then you shouldn't have to check spreadsheets and charts more than a couple times a year. That should allow you to focus on the moment more rather than the future.

I'm in a transition stage of getting my savings rate from about 40% to about 60%. Once I hit that (just about there after deciding to do so in November), I'll automate all the transfers, adjusting only when there are raises and we can save a bit more. I like getting obsessed and having laser focus, but only short-term. I need to enjoy my life now, and making the only income I see be the income *after* I've put all my investments where they belong allows me to do so.

Short term goals might be nice. For example, I'm enjoying the Uber Frugal January thread and have created some good habits because of it, but it hasn't kept me from having fun, too.