Second degree while working

[FlyJ]

Hi All,

This is my first post. I've been looking for advice on pursuing a second degree, but don't have anyone knowledgeable to ask. I enjoy programming as a hobby, and have decided I'd like to earn a second degree in computer science. There are two properly accredited institutions that offer the degree online. I've applied and want to finish the degree while working. My plan upon completing the degree is to go after more contract work in the software/web development field, which is made possible  by the significant amount of down time offered by my current job (pilot). With the two incomes, I figure I can make a decent living doing two things I enjoy.

The problem: I'd have to take out about $30,000 in student loans to complete the degree quickly (about two years), which makes me a little uncomfortable. The debt could be paid off in four years or less, but having that burden hanging over my head isn't very mustachian. Right now I make about $50,000 per year and can live frugally.

Programming is a field that doesn't require a degree as long as you have the skills, however, I think education offers a bit of credibility and gives a push to people like me who sometimes struggle with self-study. I also really value education. If I won the lottery, I'd go to school forever.

What do you think?


EDIT: Age may become a factor if I push this out a few years.

[Rebecca Stapler]

Is your programming at a level where you could take on contract work now? That's a good way to expand your abilities while keeping to a deadline (thus fighting against your difficulties in self-study). As your abilities progress, you can take on more complicated gigs.

I'm not anti-education, but I am anti-student loans. I hate them with every fiber of my being. My spouse taught himself how to program in his off-time, mostly with self-study but took some courses at a community college where his self-study was falling short. He doesn't have a CS degree and landed a programming / web development job by showing them projects he did in the past.

[DoubleDown]

I've been an IT professional, and I will second the idea to avoid student loans. The degree is not necessary (helpful, but not necessary). There is some challenge to getting your foot in the door with or without a degree, but once it's there, you're set. It is definitely possible to get your foot in the door without the degree. I've helped a few people do it that had NO prior programming experience or technical degrees (they had undergraduate degrees in other fields). With self-study, maybe some community college courses as needed, you can definitely land a position.

Learn some really in-demand languages or technical disciplines, and you can list those on your resume. Professional IT Certifications (although next to useless in practice) are another great way to obtain credentials without a degree.

I'd advise taking a couple of introductory programming courses at the local community college, where you will hopefully get a solid foundation in programming skills, then go from there on your own as needed. Those principles will carry forward with you so you can approach programming problems the right way, no matter the specific language or discipline. I say this because a lot of individuals who have not received proper training end up writing some really shitty code and implementing really stupid things. They are legion.

[footenote]

Learn some really in-demand languages or technical disciplines, and you can list those on your resume. Professional IT Certifications (although next to useless in practice) are another great way to obtain credentials without a degree.

I'd advise taking a couple of introductory programming courses at the local community college, where you will hopefully get a solid foundation in programming skills, then go from there on your own as needed. Those principles will carry forward with you so you can approach programming problems the right way, no matter the specific language or discipline. I say this because a lot of individuals who have not received proper training end up writing some really shitty code and implementing really stupid things. They are legion.

+1. An additional undergraduate degree will be poor return on a $30k loan. And demand for these skills is so high, so there is no need for a CSci degree.

Having said that, I +1 DoubleDown's advice to learn CSci fundamentals, however. You need to understand how a compiler works, fundamentals of testing, how to refactor existing code, etc. Programming languages aren't the only thing you need to learn to write robust code.

[Cecil]

Look at the kinds of jobs you're interested in, and see whether they require a degree or not.

I'm a professional programmer and I know that my company won't even look at engineers without either a degree or relevant professional experience. Without a bachelor's you'll have to do some low-paying work to get your foot in the door so to speak.

$30k is not much compared to the salary increase you'll get. I started at $57k in a low-paying branch of the industry.

[Jamesqf]

Depends a bit on what sort of programming you want to do, but for anything at upper levels (technical, scientific, etc) I would suggest a physical university rather than on-line schools.  You get a faculty network where e.g. previous students go to their faculty for when they need to fill positions.  In about 25 years working in CS, I can offhand remember getting exactly one job that wasn't the direct or indirect result of the university network, either faculty recommendation or the result of papers I'd published.

[FlyJ]

Thanks all. I agree that the degree isn't necessary for many jobs, however, I also hear from people like Cecil who say it's a must. In the end I guess I need to come up with a better picture of what I want to get out of this.

[minimalist]

Georgia Tech will be offering a MS in Computer Science online for $7000 total. http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/

[Monkey stache]

If you decide to pursue the degree, is there a way for you to live off $35,000 a year and use the other $15,000 to pay outright for your degree? It might require more sacrifice now but being free of student loans is the best feeling!

[NYD3030]

I actually did exactly this, same course of study and everything, so here is my advice.   Find a university that has a strong adult /continuing education program and look at what post baccalaureate certifications they offer.   These can be just as in depth as a major, or could be as few as four courses, but the important thing is they require no gen ed classes and you take the same courses for the same credits as the degree earners.

Here is the key...  Once you find said university, GET A JOB THERE.   I did this at Northwestern University in Chicago, and got 85% off tuition.   This allowed me to earn an academically accredited IT certification from a top 12 national university for around six thousand dollars all expenses included.

[FlyJ]

UPDATE: I recently began this degree program and man did it hurt to pay for that first class. If I see it through, I'll be paying out of pocket, but am definitely having second thoughts about whether to just save the money and continue learning on my own. I'm not ready for a career switch, so at this point it's more something I'm doing for personal fulfillment and to make up for a wasted vocational "degree" my first time through college. My industry/job is somewhat volatile and may not see me through to retirement, so I suppose keeping this up as a "side hustle" is also away to shore up against a job loss. I also have a lot of down time during which I can work on side projects.

Total cost at current tuition rates: $27,660
Divided by two years (one option): $13,830
Divide by four (if I take is slow): $6,915
Current income: $65-70k (will go up if I stay the course in my current job)

This is Oregon State's Post-Bacc Online CS program. The fact that a CS degree seems to have some value makes the justification easier, but there are cheaper, non CS options such as WGU's Software Development degree, which would cost me <$10k.

Might just have to invest the money and worry more about building a retirement than focusing so much on how I get there.

[grantmeaname]

Has the first class already started?

[FlyJ]

Has the first class already started?

Yeah, taking the first class now but might not continue beyond this.


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[AZDude]

Why dont you look into getting your MCSE or similar certification? It will give you the same amount of credibility for much less money. Probably like $2500 total for a class, self-study, and certification exam.

[Bearded Man]

I am pulling in 150K a year in the greater Seattle area. Bachelor of Science and 12 IT certifications, ranging from MS to ITIL. Still, I started my MBA two months ago and so far I'm glad I did. 12K and one year for a well known state school with AACSB accreditation ON TOP of Regional Accreditation and ABET. I was a business major in under grad. Education is the best investment.

The vast majority of my colleagues do not have a degree surprisingly. I stand out with one, and more so with an MBA. The only other people with an MBA or Masters are the Executives...

[FlyJ]

I am pulling in 150K a year in the greater Seattle area. Bachelor of Science and 12 IT certifications, ranging from MS to ITIL. Still, I started my MBA two months ago and so far I'm glad I did. 12K and one year for a well known state school with AACSB accreditation ON TOP of Regional Accreditation and ABET. I was a business major in under grad. Education is the best investment.

The vast majority of my colleagues do not have a degree surprisingly. I stand out with one, and more so with an MBA. The only other people with an MBA or Masters are the Executives...

They don't have any degree? Or just no CS degree? I'm nearing the point where I could probably get a job as an iOS dev, but the degree helps a lot with big corp jobs in the C++/Java space.

If I won the lotto, I'd probably go to school for the rest of my life. I do enjoy education.


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[ukezuzu]

I am pulling in 150K a year in the greater Seattle area. Bachelor of Science and 12 IT certifications, ranging from MS to ITIL. Still, I started my MBA two months ago and so far I'm glad I did. 12K and one year for a well known state school with AACSB accreditation ON TOP of Regional Accreditation and ABET. I was a business major in under grad. Education is the best investment.

The vast majority of my colleagues do not have a degree surprisingly. I stand out with one, and more so with an MBA. The only other people with an MBA or Masters are the Executives...

Out of curiosity, which business school are you attending in the Seattle area? 12k seems really reasonable. I was researching MBA programs, but couldn't find anything in that price range.

[Bearded Man]

Out of state, online. It's normally 30k but I got to waive half my credits since majoring in same degree as undergrad.

[littlebird]

I did that OSU program and graduated in June, and I have to say I'm still unemployed. I didn't do an internship and I don't know if that's my problem but I'm struggling to get interviews. Seems that most places are looking for people with experience, not new graduates who they know they'll have to put a ton of time in to. I'm actually considering returning to my old job field because I'm about ready to give up on this and consider the 30k a sunk cost.

[civil]

Have you looked at UMUC? If you're out-of-state, it looks to be $15k at today's tuition rates. They require 30 credits for a 2nd bachelors. I did a 2nd bachelors online with them and graduated last year. It cost me about $4k in-state - employer paid the other half. The education was the same as (if not harder than) what most of my CS major friends learned at UVA. Now that I'm done with my post-degree commitment to my employer, I've found a new job for a 40% raise.

[benjordan]

While not the same as a degree, there are tons of free classes offered online as well as Certified Specializations:

https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-computer-science-mitx-6-00-1x-6

https://www.coursera.org/specializations

[FlyJ]

I did that OSU program and graduated in June, and I have to say I'm still unemployed. I didn't do an internship and I don't know if that's my problem but I'm struggling to get interviews. Seems that most places are looking for people with experience, not new graduates who they know they'll have to put a ton of time in to. I'm actually considering returning to my old job field because I'm about ready to give up on this and consider the 30k a sunk cost.

Sorry for the delay. Just happened to revisit this and saw your post. I'm surprised you haven't been able to find a job. Have you tried to specialize in any particular technology, or do you do any side projects? $30k is a lot to simply write off, especially when there's the potential there to start a more lucrative career. Keep trying!

I'm also doing OSU by the way. The quality is kind of disappointing.

[littlebird]

I'm trying to specialize in java, so I taught that to myself and have worked on side projects. I'm getting extremely low yield on resumes sent out. I have had a few interviews and hoping that one will pan out soon.

I was also not impressed with the quality of OSU. It supposedly gets better every quarter based on bitching from students who just took the class, so imagine how bad it was when I was doing it two years ago! I had to get a tutor who taught me extensively to make it through.

[AZDude]

I would skip the degree and instead get certified. IE: MCSE or equivalent. It will cost less and should offer similar credibility.