Author Topic: Retirement Question: Defined Benefit or Defined Contribution - Soon to retire  (Read 940 times)

MinimalistMoustache

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Hello,

Retiring in 5 years, possibly sooner: Recently, offered the opportunity to choose between a defined benefit plan or defined contribution with company match. Have been with the company over 5 years and vested. Given the current market and (disappointing) performance of portfolio, which would you consider to be the better choice? Looking for security over making huge gains at this point.

Many thanks!

triple7stash

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If you are vested it sounds like you are already participating in a defined benefit plan.  The defined contribution portion is probably supplemental to the defined benefit.  As long as the defined benefit (assuming pension?) is solvent, pensions are usually perceived as the safer option.

simonsez

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Would need more details.

For the defined benefit, is this a set $/% taken from your paycheck?  Or is it a variable amount?  What is the benefit formula?  Is it annuitized in retirement or can you pick and choose what you want to take out?

My defined benefit is a pension that is a set percentage each paycheck and will be a set monthly amount during retirement.  The formula for retirement is based on age and service.  My friend has a pension (also based on age and service) and then also what he calls a 'voluntary contribution' fund that is another defined benefit separate from the pension.  For this voluntary contribution fund, he can put in up to 10% of his paycheck into a fund that gets a guaranteed 7.25% return regardless of age or service.  This is a variable amount he maxes his out (but the 10% amount will be different to everyone) but has many co-workers who put nothing into it.  He does not have access to a 401k but does have a 457 (no match).

Same goes for the defined contribution plan - what are the inputs and how are the eventual outputs determined?  What are the fund options?  What are the associated expenses with each fund?  Often times you can be pretty conservative within a defined contribution plan that multiple fund options whereas defined benefit plans don't typically have choices on the investment, what you get is pre-determined (thus the term defined-benefit).

MinimalistMoustache

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Thanks @Triple7Stash @simonsez - I appreciate your responses.

Presently, I'm just recently vested in a defined benefit and now asked if I want to switch to the defined contribution plan. Now,  a set amount of 8% is taken from gross pay in the defined benefit plan. The formula works out 0.02 x 32 x final pay amount.

While it is difficult to estimate what my final salary will be or actual year to retire, for now I'll use $4750 gross. The investment options for the contribution retirement plan include Vanguard target funds (I was looking at VRIVX and VTTWX). I can contribute up to 10%, the company will match 10% = 20% contribution. There is also the option to self-direct and choose my own funds (which I am least comfortable about considering). Also have a Fidelity Index Fund and moderate amount of cash and metals. My main concern is security over growth. While company is well established and stable, current economic climate is the main cause for my concern. Colleagues discussing the merits of the defined contribution but we are at different ages and lengths of service.


MDM

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What return would you need in your defined contribution plan to match the defined benefit plan?

simonsez

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I'm assuming you meant $47500 instead of $4750 gross pay in your last year.  $47500 * .02 * 32 (I assume 32 years of service @ 2%/yr X a HI-1) would give you $30400 per year for the defined benefit (DB).  Would that payout have a COLA in future years or remain at $30400?

To generate $30400 per year on the defined contribution (DC) side, using the 4% rule for simplicity you would need 25x that amount as your ending nest egg which is $760000.    If you did put in 10% your last 5 years and had it matched a further 10%, assuming your final salary over those 5 years invested @6% gives roughly 55k (or 58k if 8% growth).  That means you would need a further ~700k to make them equal in a vacuum*.  If you were to make the choice to switch to DC plan, would you be starting at $0 or would what you had contributed to the DB plan for all those years switch over?  Let's assume you made $47500 for each of the past 27 (5 yrs to go, 32-5=27) years you worked - that 8% of salary invested @6% would be ~$250000 after 27 years and $330000 after 32.  330k from first 27 + 55k from last 5 = 385k.  385k << 760k, thus I would stick with the DB if those numbers are reasonable assumptions.

If your current DB comes with a COLA, this is even a stronger case for keeping the DB. 

* This ignores things like passing money to beneficiaries in the event of a death as the DB would be finished but whatever is left in your DC fund could be passed to heirs.

Catbert

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My non math-y thought (yes, I know the math is important):  They are making this change to save the company money in the long run, so I'd tend to stay with defined benefit. 

MinimalistMoustache

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@simonsez, sincere thanks for the detailed calculation and user-friendly comparison. Though the $4750 is the average monthly gross ($57,000/annually), results make the defined benefit most convincing and aligned with my comfort level.

@Catbert, no math required to recognize that your hunch is right on target. :-)

Thanks all for the good and helpful feedback.