Author Topic: Religion  (Read 13337 times)

luigi49

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Religion
« on: February 07, 2014, 12:29:55 PM »
I have a best friend who is very religious and living paycheck to paycheck.  They are a family of four with no debt.  Father is an alcoholic and left the family.   This family has no debt.   The parent savings is only $5000.  Does not own a home but live in a nice place.  The 3 kids are 21, 19, and 16 respectively.  All of the kids inherited 20k each from the grandmother.  Kids did not go to college but the 2 earn certification from vocational school.  The 2 kids are employed but minimum wage.   When kids earn their wage they save half and use the other half for frivolous things.  All kids have nice designer clothes, latest gadgets and travel extensively.  i have told the kids to put the 20k in a mutual fund and let it compound but they rather have it in a bank earning no interest.   The kids never touch the 20k.   The kids has no concept of money growing because of the parents belief. 

Everytime I talked to my best friend about alternative life such as being a mustachian she quickly shun it as materialism and against god or being worldly.   She has instill in her kids about not being worldly.   I told her you dont have to be wordly and have some emergency money but she wont listen

Do I just leave them alone and not teach them the other way of life?

Eric

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Re: Religion
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2014, 12:35:47 PM »
Everytime I talked to my best friend about alternative life such as being a mustachian she quickly shun it as materialism and against god or being worldly. 

Are you sure you explained it right?  Because it's pretty much the opposite of materialism.  Or are you saying that your friend thinks that saving money is materialism?  In that case, get her a dictionary that she can store on her bedside stand with her religious text.

Daley

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Re: Religion
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2014, 12:37:57 PM »
Send her my way in a few days, if you're willing to. I don't really have anything on my own website currently that fully approaches this topic (it's brushed on lightly in relation to technology in the Mission Statement), but I should change that. It's time I hit the point head-on.

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Re: Religion
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2014, 12:55:51 PM »
It sounds like your friend is set in her ways, so I don't know if I would try to say anything more to her if I were you.

If you do choose to approach her again and want to try using a biblical reference, the family's situation reminds of me of the parable of the talents.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_talents_or_minas
That's a parable, though, so how she interprets it is up to her.

Tyler

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Re: Religion
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2014, 01:09:04 PM »
Hmm.  I've usually found religious teaching to be extremely conducive to anti-consumerism.   

The kids being bad with money has nothing to do with religion.  That's universal with teenagers (and the majority of adults, frankly). 

One tip -- if you're focusing primarily on saving and building an emergency fund, it's possible your friend is interpreting that as advice not to tithe.  To a devout religious person that could be a major stumbling block.  So be sensitive about that one issue, at least.  Also, perhaps the mother sees spending money on the kids as "taking care of family" -- she certainly wouldn't be the first, and that instinct transcends religion. 

Since they have no debt, I wouldn't necessarily classify them as bad with money.  Just with lots of room for improvement.  My humble opinion (without knowing your friend) is that assuming the core issue is religious and trying to convince her on religious terms may actually hurt you more than help.  Just be a good friend who offers practical tips for a good deal and who shares how saving has helped your family.  Lead by example, and I'm sure such a close friend will notice.




luigi49

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Re: Religion
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2014, 01:10:33 PM »
Everytime I talked to my best friend about alternative life such as being a mustachian she quickly shun it as materialism and against god or being worldly. 

Are you sure you explained it right?  Because it's pretty much the opposite of materialism.  Or are you saying that your friend thinks that saving money is materialism?  In that case, get her a dictionary that she can store on her bedside stand with her religious text.

Yes money is evil.  She is not a religious nut in fact if you see her she looks normal but she became born again and swore off wordly stuff.

crumbcatcher

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Re: Religion
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2014, 01:18:01 PM »
When kids earn their wage they save half and use the other half for frivolous things.  All kids have nice designer clothes, latest gadgets and travel extensively. 

...

Everytime I talked to my best friend about alternative life such as being a mustachian she quickly shun it as materialism and against god or being worldly.   She has instill in her kids about not being worldly.   

If the kids are off buying nice designer clothes, gadgets and traveling, it seems like she's not having great success in teaching them to not be worldly.

I can appreciate the frustration you must feel about this, and feel for those kids. My family was that family when I was growing up, part of the reason we were always poor. When the money was gone, we relied on the kindness of others - not great lessons in how to be fiscally responsible. 

FWIW, the bible also teaches that we should be good stewards. People read selectively though.

luigi49

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Re: Religion
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2014, 01:19:54 PM »
Hmm.  I've usually found religious teaching to be extremely conducive to anti-consumerism.   

The kids being bad with money has nothing to do with religion.  That's universal with teenagers (and the majority of adults, frankly). 

One tip -- if you're focusing primarily on saving and building an emergency fund, it's possible your friend is interpreting that as advice not to tithe.  To a devout religious person that could be a major stumbling block.  So be sensitive about that one issue, at least.  Also, perhaps the mother sees spending money on the kids as "taking care of family" -- she certainly wouldn't be the first, and that instinct transcends religion. 

Since they have no debt, I wouldn't necessarily classify them as bad with money.  Just with lots of room for improvement.  My humble opinion (without knowing your friend) is that assuming the core issue is religious and trying to convince her on religious terms may actually hurt you more than help.  Just be a good friend who offers practical tips for a good deal and who shares how saving has helped your family.  Lead by example, and I'm sure such a close friend will notice.

She tithe quite generously.   I feel it is risky for her to live this lifestyle with no emergency money.   I am not pushing my ideas or way of life to them but in a way I am trying to let them see the other way of life.   I am just running out of ideas.  It is a challenge to me.

luigi49

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Re: Religion
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2014, 01:24:58 PM »
When kids earn their wage they save half and use the other half for frivolous things.  All kids have nice designer clothes, latest gadgets and travel extensively. 

...

Everytime I talked to my best friend about alternative life such as being a mustachian she quickly shun it as materialism and against god or being worldly.   She has instill in her kids about not being worldly.   

If the kids are off buying nice designer clothes, gadgets and traveling, it seems like she's not having great success in teaching them to not be worldly.

I can appreciate the frustration you must feel about this, and feel for those kids. My family was that family when I was growing up, part of the reason we were always poor. When the money was gone, we relied on the kindness of others - not great lessons in how to be fiscally responsible. 

FWIW, the bible also teaches that we should be good stewards. People read selectively though.

She is not successful on teaching her kids about worldly things and when you push the kids to aim higher they use the religion not to aim higher.    I worry about them but also amaze they have been living like this for a while.

FIreDrill

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Re: Religion
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2014, 01:26:08 PM »
Hmmm, I have a feeling the best route for her to take is to somehow start listening to Dave Ramsey and maybe do Financial Peace University.  I know there is a lot of back and forth about Dave but that is where I started and I eventually evolved into a Mustachian.  He really fights the whole "money is evil" debate and is pretty solid when it comes to backing it up with the Bible. 

Just my two cents.


foobar

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Re: Religion
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2014, 01:41:56 PM »
Well if there is also some stuff about being your brothers keeper and so on. If you don't read selectively you will get totally confused.

Religion in general covers all sort of things. You have frugal branches (Mormonism is pretty good) and then you have Prosperity Theology (I am rich because god blessed me) and everything i between. Most churches adopt the money isn't evil but money causes a lot of evil point of view. MMM type obsession with money to them is almost as bad the profligate spender as the focus is on money not on God.

I am guessing religion has nothing to do with these peoples financial point of view.  It is that they are ignorant of how money works and really don't have a desire to learn. It might seem crazy to you and me but there are a lot people in that boat. I don't know if it is your place to try and point this stuff out.


If the kids are off buying nice designer clothes, gadgets and traveling, it seems like she's not having great success in teaching them to not be worldly.

I can appreciate the frustration you must feel about this, and feel for those kids. My family was that family when I was growing up, part of the reason we were always poor. When the money was gone, we relied on the kindness of others - not great lessons in how to be fiscally responsible. 

FWIW, the bible also teaches that we should be good stewards. People read selectively though.

rubybeth

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Re: Religion
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2014, 01:54:35 PM »
Hmmm, I have a feeling the best route for her to take is to somehow start listening to Dave Ramsey and maybe do Financial Peace University.  I know there is a lot of back and forth about Dave but that is where I started and I eventually evolved into a Mustachian.  He really fights the whole "money is evil" debate and is pretty solid when it comes to backing it up with the Bible. 

Just my two cents.

I would agree with the Dave Ramsey suggestion. Since she's debt free and already has emergency savings, she could feel good about already being on Baby Step 3. Maybe her church even offers Financial Peace University, and you could suggest going?

MrsPete

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Re: Religion
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2014, 02:30:39 PM »
You say the family's religious.  I assume you mean Christian.  If so, their actions do not show that they understand and are following Biblical teachings.  If you really want to interfere, here's a parable that fits:

Have them read the Parable of the Talents.  Here it is in a nutshell:  The master of a house went away on a lengthy journey.  Before he left, he gave each of his three servants some money (measure of money = a talent).  The first servant was given a large amount (might've been 10 talents), and he invested the money and saw it increase sharply.  The second servant was given less -- let's make it 5 talents.  He also used his money wisely and increased it, though not as much as the fellow who started with more.  The last servant was given only a single talent.  He buried it in the ground, where it stayed.  When the master returned quite some time later, he asked each servant to report what he had done in his absence.  The master was very pleased with the first servant who had increased his money the most.  He also had praise for the second, who had accomplished much with a more moderate amount.  The third servant tried to make excuses, saying that he knew the master was a hard man and would be angry if the initial investment was lost.  If memory serves, the master called the third servant "wicked and lazy" for his lack of industry, and he took away his money and gave it to the highest-producing servant.  Clearly, God isn't against business and earning money -- though in many other places he pushes the need for honesty and fair dealings in business.  In fact, it's quite the opposite: He expects His people to work and invest. They may end up super-wealthy like Abraham, or they may live a simple life like Mary and Joseph, but He expects work and increase. 

You can also quote Proverbs 31, which describes an ideal woman, and PART of this deals with her financial dealings.  Describing just the financial part, the verses say that a good woman works hard, lays in stores of supplies for her family (including colorful, warm clothing for the winter), shops carefully to get the most value for her money.  It says she makes investments (specifically it says land, but that could be construed in a more general term for modern life).  It says that her husband is pleased with the way she runs her household, others ask her advice because she is wise, and that her family does not have to "fear" the future, for they are prepared.

On the other hand, we can see that the Bible frowns upon frivolous spending.  For example, when the Prodigal Son demands that his father give him his inheritance, he runs away and wastes his money in the city . . . and then finds himself begging for a job slopping pigs and envying their food (which would've been the lowest insult possible for a Jewish boy, who would've considered pigs unclean).  He didn't choose hard work and saving, and he was punished. 

And the Bible discusses putting God first, other people second . . . and money some way down the list.  For example, there's a quick description in the gospels of an unnamed "wealthy young ruler" who asked Jesus what he must do to become a follower.  Because Jesus knew what was in the man's heart, he knew that the man loved wealth more than he would love God.  So he told the man that he must give up all his worldly goods (meaning, put your priorities in order), and the man walked away from Him.  This doesn't mean everyone is asked to walk away from money.  For example, Kings David had tremendous worldly wealth, and yet he is called "a man after God's own heart".  He had money, but he also had his priorities in the right place.

No, I don't think this family has any idea what the Bible actually says about money. 

luigi49

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Re: Religion
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2014, 04:50:44 PM »
You say the family's religious.  I assume you mean Christian.  If so, their actions do not show that they understand and are following Biblical teachings.  If you really want to interfere, here's a parable that fits:

Have them read the Parable of the Talents.  Here it is in a nutshell:  The master of a house went away on a lengthy journey.  Before he left, he gave each of his three servants some money (measure of money = a talent).  The first servant was given a large amount (might've been 10 talents), and he invested the money and saw it increase sharply.  The second servant was given less -- let's make it 5 talents.  He also used his money wisely and increased it, though not as much as the fellow who started with more.  The last servant was given only a single talent.  He buried it in the ground, where it stayed.  When the master returned quite some time later, he asked each servant to report what he had done in his absence.  The master was very pleased with the first servant who had increased his money the most.  He also had praise for the second, who had accomplished much with a more moderate amount.  The third servant tried to make excuses, saying that he knew the master was a hard man and would be angry if the initial investment was lost.  If memory serves, the master called the third servant "wicked and lazy" for his lack of industry, and he took away his money and gave it to the highest-producing servant.  Clearly, God isn't against business and earning money -- though in many other places he pushes the need for honesty and fair dealings in business.  In fact, it's quite the opposite: He expects His people to work and invest. They may end up super-wealthy like Abraham, or they may live a simple life like Mary and Joseph, but He expects work and increase. 

You can also quote Proverbs 31, which describes an ideal woman, and PART of this deals with her financial dealings.  Describing just the financial part, the verses say that a good woman works hard, lays in stores of supplies for her family (including colorful, warm clothing for the winter), shops carefully to get the most value for her money.  It says she makes investments (specifically it says land, but that could be construed in a more general term for modern life).  It says that her husband is pleased with the way she runs her household, others ask her advice because she is wise, and that her family does not have to "fear" the future, for they are prepared.

On the other hand, we can see that the Bible frowns upon frivolous spending.  For example, when the Prodigal Son demands that his father give him his inheritance, he runs away and wastes his money in the city . . . and then finds himself begging for a job slopping pigs and envying their food (which would've been the lowest insult possible for a Jewish boy, who would've considered pigs unclean).  He didn't choose hard work and saving, and he was punished. 

And the Bible discusses putting God first, other people second . . . and money some way down the list.  For example, there's a quick description in the gospels of an unnamed "wealthy young ruler" who asked Jesus what he must do to become a follower.  Because Jesus knew what was in the man's heart, he knew that the man loved wealth more than he would love God.  So he told the man that he must give up all his worldly goods (meaning, put your priorities in order), and the man walked away from Him.  This doesn't mean everyone is asked to walk away from money.  For example, Kings David had tremendous worldly wealth, and yet he is called "a man after God's own heart".  He had money, but he also had his priorities in the right place.

No, I don't think this family has any idea what the Bible actually says about money.

This is exactly what my wife said to me.  We try to tell her this passages in a subtle way but she doesnt get it.  I will print this one out and send it to her.  Maybe this might get her attention. 

Kaminoge

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Re: Religion
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2014, 06:49:04 AM »
Everytime I talked to my best friend about alternative life such as being a mustachian she quickly shun it as materialism and against god or being worldly.   She has instill in her kids about not being worldly.   I told her you dont have to be wordly and have some emergency money but she wont listen

Do I just leave them alone and not teach them the other way of life?

I'm also wondering exactly where these people are getting their religious views. I come from a very Christian background and I can assure you that there's nothing in the Bible that is anti-Mustachian apart from the tendency I've noticed on here for people to say that cutting your giving is a good idea. Personally I'd cut a lot of things before I cut money I was giving others.

The Bible says "the love of money is the root of all evil" not money itself. And I'd say that's a nice fit with Mustachianism - don't be obsessed with earning more and more and more. When you have enough then you stop trying to just mindlessly accumulate more. It's also pretty clear about being good stewards, sharing what you have and treasuring things that matter (like maybe ER so you can spend more time with your family).

But given all that I wouldn't go picking arguments with your friend or firing off emails full of Bible verses that support your point of view. If she doesn't want to hear what you're saying then she will just be annoyed by it all. By all means lead by example and make small suggestions along the way but don't try and "convert" her to your way of life anymore than you probably want her converting her to yours.

ender

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Re: Religion
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2014, 08:46:10 AM »
I am a very strong evangelical Christian.

I actually tend to think MMM is one of the best resources and strategies out there to keep your perspective and attitude towards money proper. The only "downside" is you can somewhat idolize the ER/FI components.

I fully suspect my life will play out something a bit different than you folks, because an additional benefit of being FI/RE is you can work and do a loooot with your money should you feel compelled to give away, say, 80% of your salary. To me, as an evangelical Christian, the idea of being responsible enough with my money to be able to do that is one of the most compelling things about living an MMM lifestyle :) By the time I'm say 45 or so I fully expect to be FI or well on my way and what that means is I can use my full income to do whatever I want. Retire and volunteer? Give away? Etc.

Well, other than the very Christian severing of your value and happiness being found in material things, which is a natural side effect :)


MooseOutFront

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Re: Religion
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2014, 05:32:13 PM »
Honestly if they're saving 50% then their religion is irrelevent.

MrsPete

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Re: Religion
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2014, 08:48:42 AM »
Honestly if they're saving 50% then their religion is irrelevent.
I'm reading that the young adult children are living at home so that their expenses are low, and they're the ones saving half.  That isn't particularly admirable. 

JennieOG

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Re: Religion
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 09:12:11 AM »
In my limited experience, a lot of the evangelical Christians I know don't really believe in saving because it's like saying the Lord will not provide or something...same thing with saving the environment, if you think the Lord will come save you before the earth gets too bad there is really no reason to stop using mountains of styrofoam, because after all, the Lord gave us dominion over the earth which means everything on it is ours to do with as we please! And, I am not being nasty, this is just actual opinion I have heard from MANY in the Midwest. 

kittenstache

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Re: Religion
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2014, 09:36:13 AM »
In my limited experience, a lot of the evangelical Christians I know don't really believe in saving because it's like saying the Lord will not provide or something...same thing with saving the environment, if you think the Lord will come save you before the earth gets too bad there is really no reason to stop using mountains of styrofoam, because after all, the Lord gave us dominion over the earth which means everything on it is ours to do with as we please! And, I am not being nasty, this is just actual opinion I have heard from MANY in the Midwest.

I live in Florida and hear much the same sentiments.
"Jesus won't let us run out of fossil fuels/clean air/arable land until the End Times! If you don't believe that, you're a Bad Christian!!!"  This idea goes hand-in-hand with the Prosperity Gospel B.S.: "Jesus is rewarding me with a gas-guzzling SUV, because I'm such a Good Christian!"

*shakes head incredulously*

luigi49

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Re: Religion
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2014, 01:12:38 PM »
Honestly if they're saving 50% then their religion is irrelevent.
I'm reading that the young adult children are living at home so that their expenses are low, and they're the ones saving half.  That isn't particularly admirable.
[/i]

You are right not admirable at all as the kids also uses her teaching as an excuse not to strive harder.  I told her to give her kids a chance to understand the other way of life.  I told her that her influence is sometimes too strong for her kids.   Anyways I started using some of the replys here and sadly it is not working. 

Faith2014

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Re: Religion
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2014, 02:36:53 PM »
My thoughts:

Gen 41:47 - 41:5 - the story of Joseph saving all of Egypt by his putting up of the grain from the years of plenty.  http://www.usccb.org/bible/genesis/41 but that's a Catholic link.

"For the love of money is the root of all evils, and some people in their desire for it have strayed from the faith and have pierced themselves with many pains."

http://www.usccb.org/bible/1timothy/6

Of course, in the 2 previous verses, they could argue that God doesn't want us to focus on being rich.  But one can say that only a fool builds without a plan:  Luke 14:28 - 30:  Which of you wishing to construct a tower does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if there is enough for its completion? Otherwise, after laying the foundation and finding himself unable to finish the work the onlookers should laugh at him and say, ‘This one began to build but did not have the resources to finish.’   http://www.usccb.org/bible/luke/14

The main issue is our relationship with money.  There's nothing wrong with focusing on money is one realizes that money is merely the means, not the end.  If money is our end, then we violate the 1st Commandment and worship money instead of God.

In all things, logic and reason cannot get someone out of a position if it didn't help them get there to begin with.  So, did they arrive at their dislike of money first and then point to religious reasoning as why they feel that way (but it's really just an excuse)?  Or is it truly a situation where religious reasoning brought them to the dislike of money.  If it was the latter, you may be able to influence the thought process.  If the former, forget it.

ER/FI might not be the best goal.  Paul was able to focus on his ministering to the people because he was able to support himself through his work and not be a burden to the communities.  By working part time or as needed, they can dedicate more of their time and talent to the work of God.

Also - Jesus was able to dedicate himself to teaching and preaching and was supported by others.  Would they not like to be in that situation to be able to support those doing the work of Jesus?  Tough to do it if they do not put money on the side.  Finally, Jesus worked as a carpenter for many years until he started his public ministry.  This could almost be looked at as ensuring that his work enabled Mary to survive while he attended to his mission. 

Good luck.

Jamesqf

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Re: Religion
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2014, 03:00:38 PM »
This idea goes hand-in-hand with the Prosperity Gospel B.S.: "Jesus is rewarding me with a gas-guzzling SUV, because I'm such a Good Christian!"

*shakes head incredulously*

Yeah.  Except from my point of view, it's Satan punishing them by making them want to drive gas-guzzling SUVs, with all the consequences - like lugging around an extra 50-100 lbs of beer gut (reminiscent of the folks in Dante's 4th Circle).  Jesus would give me a Lotus, or if I was really good, a Tesla Roadster :-) 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 10:29:48 PM by Jamesqf »

foobar

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Re: Religion
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2014, 07:46:22 PM »
If you can't prove your point using the bible, your not trying hard enough:) And are you sure that it isn't Satan tempting you with a tesla (some 70k car) instead of a nice practical ford energi type vehicle that costs half as much?:)

This really sounds like meddling to me.  You want to preach your financial lifestyle to them. They aren't interested. If you keep bringing it up your far more likely to hurt the relationship than change their opinion.

This idea goes hand-in-hand with the Prosperity Gospel B.S.: "Jesus is rewarding me with a gas-guzzling SUV, because I'm such a Good Christian!"

*shakes head incredulously*

Yeah.  Except from my point of view, it's Satan punishing them by making them want to drive gas-guzzling SUVs, with all the consequences - like lugging around an extra 50-100 lbs of beer gut (reminiscent of the folks in Dantee's 4th Circle).  Jesus would give me a Lotus, or if I was really good, a Tesla Roadster :-)

Tyler

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Re: Religion
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2014, 07:56:53 PM »

You want to preach your financial lifestyle to them. They aren't interested. If you keep bringing it up your far more likely to hurt the relationship than change their opinion.


I have to agree.  The OP is a good friend for wanting to help, but at some point after you've said your peace you have to let them live their own lives.  Live your own by example, and perhaps one day they'll remember your conversations and come to you for advice. 

Jamesqf

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Re: Religion
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2014, 10:36:19 PM »
If you can't prove your point using the bible, your not trying hard enough:)

Maybe.  Or maybe I'm not a Christian, and so don't regard Biblical quotes as proof :-)

Quote
And are you sure that it isn't Satan tempting you with a tesla (some 70k car) instead of a nice practical ford energi type vehicle that costs half as much?:)

I'm talking about the Roadster, about $110K new, not the 4-door sedan Model S.  Neither that nor the Fords are the least bit tempting to me.  Now maybe an Ariel Atom, a Caterham 7, or even a Miata...

MrsPete

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Re: Religion
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2014, 06:46:04 AM »
In my limited experience, a lot of the evangelical Christians I know don't really believe in saving because it's like saying the Lord will not provide or something...same thing with saving the environment, if you think the Lord will come save you before the earth gets too bad there is really no reason to stop using mountains of styrofoam, because after all, the Lord gave us dominion over the earth which means everything on it is ours to do with as we please! And, I am not being nasty, this is just actual opinion I have heard from MANY in the Midwest.

I'm Southern Baptist, which is an evangelical division, and that is contrary to what I've been taught in church AND contrary to what I've read in the Bible.  Rather, people in my church would tell you that if you do something wrong (i.e., fall foolishly into debt) God will forgive you for your folly . . . but you'll still be responsible for the fallout of that mistake (i.e., being forced to postpone buying a house as you pay off that debt).  Personal responsibility is a theme throughout the Bible.

Is anyone else thinking of that old country song:  "Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?  My friends all drive Beamers, I must make ammends."  Y'all do know that was a joke, right?  I've never heard anyone in my church say that God will prosper you financially because you are a Christian.  Of course, my church also considers Joel Olsteen (did I spell that right?) to be something of a heretic because that's exactly what he teaches, but he's not representative of Christianity --  he's a definite outlyer who is preaching something that cannot be supported using the Bible. 

I have to agree.  The OP is a good friend for wanting to help, but at some point after you've said your peace you have to let them live their own lives.  Live your own by example, and perhaps one day they'll remember your conversations and come to you for advice.
Yes, you can make good points all day long, but it's up to the friend to decide whether to accept it or whether to continue to kind of "make up her own ideas" about what the Bible says.  Ultimately, her decisions are her decisions, and you have done what you can do.   

Luck better Skill

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Re: Religion
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2014, 08:26:39 AM »
  Is earning interest the religious issue?  There are teaching on not charging interest on loans. 

Eric

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Re: Religion
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2014, 10:38:26 AM »
Is anyone else thinking of that old country song:  "Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?  My friends all drive BeamersPorsches, I must make ammends." 

Old country song?  Yes, and here's a picture of that old country singer:


hybrid

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Re: Religion
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2014, 12:06:23 PM »
I wholeheartedly agree with the Dave Ramsey suggestions (I'm also assuming the family is Christian). I'm not Christian but Dave Ramsey helps Christians make better choices with their money, so point them in a direction they would find very comfortable to begin with.

Miamoo

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Re: Religion
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2014, 12:18:17 PM »
Wasn't she lovely?  Poor thing.

What ever happened to "God helps those who help themselves?"  I hear that (to me) crap here all the time about God rewarding people who are 'Good Xians" with monetary gifts or security.  Especially if they tithe, especially if it's over and above the 10%.

Not the point, you maybe should probably give it a rest OP.  Your concern is admirable but is your friend worried?  Did I miss something?

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Re: Religion
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2014, 12:21:53 PM »
Wasn't she lovely?  Poor thing.

What ever happened to "God helps those who help themselves?"  I hear that (to me) crap here all the time about God rewarding people who are 'Good Xians" with monetary gifts or security.  Especially if they tithe, especially if it's over and above the 10%.

Not the point, you maybe should probably give it a rest OP.  Your concern is admirable but is your friend worried?  Did I miss something?
I'm pretty sure Ben Franklin said "God helps those who help themselves" in Poor Richard's Almanac -- it is not Biblical, but this is an excellent example of something that people THINK is in the Bible . . . but isn't. 

No, you can't find anything in the Bible that promises God will reward Christians in a financial way.  In fact, it says just the opposite -- that nothing is promised on earth.  Again, this is the kind of thing people who aren't actually reading the Bible THINK is in the book . . . but isn't. 

Of the ten commandments (which doesn't encompass the whole Bible), exactly one comes with a promise, and it has nothing to do with money. 


Miamoo

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Re: Religion
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2014, 12:56:42 PM »
Thanks Mrs. Pete.  I didn't realize that quote was from Mr. Franklin.  But regardless of where it comes from, I think it's pertinent.  Too many people I've run into either blame or credit God for their circumstances.  I'm a 'recovering' Catholic (it's a joke!) and haven't read the Bible in years.  I believe in One God or The Creator or The Supreme Being . . . but not the Bible literally as a directive and not that Jesus is the son of God or a saviour per say.    I believe that Jesus was a teacher and that if one follows his teachings one can be their own 'saviour', live a more useful, productive life.  The Bible to me has/had much good advice and some lovely poetry from what I recall. 

No insult intended to anyone.  I respect all points of view and everyone's belief. 

Celebrate diversity.

Good grief I've run this off topic.

luigi49

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Re: Religion
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2014, 12:59:29 PM »
Wasn't she lovely?  Poor thing.

What ever happened to "God helps those who help themselves?"  I hear that (to me) crap here all the time about God rewarding people who are 'Good Xians" with monetary gifts or security.  Especially if they tithe, especially if it's over and above the 10%.

Not the point, you maybe should probably give it a rest OP.  Your concern is admirable but is your friend worried?  Did I miss something?

My friend is not worried because she says that god will provide and take care of her.  I just worry for their family who does not have a safety net.   I told her its good that she believes in god but she needs more.  I am not saying 1 mil  but have something.   I show her the post here . 

Miamoo

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Re: Religion
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2014, 01:10:23 PM »
luigi, that is so nice of you.  So nice that you are so caring.  She'll be fine.  Those that are younger need to find their own way.

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Re: Religion
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2014, 01:35:26 PM »
I think that there is some positive in that they have no debt and not surrounded by the alcoholism granted at losing their father in their lives but better off under that circumstance.  Also the fact that the kids might not be earning money but also haven't spent there 20k shows at least some discipline if i read it right. I agree with ^+1 that they will learn perhaps the hard way but there in better shape than alot of people in these situations. If there beliefs are that strong while its great that you care you also might push them away. While their beliefs might seem obscure they are entitled to their beliefs and that is touchy when it comes to people and friends.  Maybe just keep a caring eye as its seems you have been and when something comes up that you can give your opinion then speak with a loud voice.

foobar

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Re: Religion
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2014, 06:33:59 AM »
Well if you don't believe in the one true god, how can you expect him to give you a telsa?:) Or maybe the problem is that Elon Musk listen to Satan and discontinued the roadster:)

If you can't prove your point using the bible, your not trying hard enough:)

Maybe.  Or maybe I'm not a Christian, and so don't regard Biblical quotes as proof :-)

Quote
And are you sure that it isn't Satan tempting you with a tesla (some 70k car) instead of a nice practical ford energi type vehicle that costs half as much?:)

I'm talking about the Roadster, about $110K new, not the 4-door sedan Model S.  Neither that nor the Fords are the least bit tempting to me.  Now maybe an Ariel Atom, a Caterham 7, or even a Miata...