Airline Travel

[mancityfan]

So. How willing are you to fly on an airline at present? All that recycled air. Just wondering how folks are feeling.

[penguintroopers]

So. How willing are you to fly on an airline at present? All that recycled air. Just wondering how folks are feeling.

I'm less worried about recycled air on the plane (they have HEPA filters) than contact I could be making with others via bag handlers, TSA agents, other travelers, and surfaces in the airport and airplane.

[Photograph 51]

The only way I am flying, now or ever, is if I need to be medivaced due to a life threatening emergency.  Flying is horrible for the enivronment.

[simonsez]

When headquarters opens back up, I'll have to start flying again for work.  I guess it's an emergency to keep my job?  But I don't plan on any leisure flying anytime soon.

[RFAAOATB]

I had to fly cross country last week.  On the plus side there are fewer middle seats filled.  On the downside, no in flight cocktails and soda, had to go with the IPA and water.

If we are still working from home and schools are still closed in fall, I just might fly cross country again to set up base with my parents.

[Zikoris]

I wouldn't set foot in an airport right now.

[Gerard]

I don't get where this "recycled air" idea comes from. Airplane air is replaced way more often than any other air you're likely to run into, short of maybe a clifftop in Newfoundland. That's why it's so damn dry.

Now, if it's a matter of snotty touching-everything operatic-coughing evading-quarantine fellow travellers...

[mancityfan]

Well they do recycle the air, but run it through filters which remove 99% or so of contaminants. Maybe we should be concerned with that 1% :-). That aside, there are some other good points about surfaces inside the plane itself, crowded nature of airports etc. Interesting to see the range of responses.

[Sibley]

I avoid air travel pretty much all of the time. Pandemics don't really change that.

[FIRE Artist]

I have a flight booked at the end of August to visit my elderly mother who lives in the opposite side of the country from me.  I am open to cancelling it if things do not get significantly better as I am worried about potentially giving her the virus, but also will not have seen her in 24 months by then.  It is a tough situation all around.  She is used to getting regular visits from one of her 6 kids (who all have moved away from the region) so this is a tough, tough situation. 

If it were not for needing to visit my mother, I would have no problem and would actually prefer to not fly anywhere for at least the next 18 months or so.

[Blue Skies]

I'm interested to hear others opinions on this.  We have a trip booked (booked last Fall) for early August, traveling across country by plane.  DH is not interested in canceling.  He thinks it will be fine to go.  I don't think it is a good idea.  At this point I'm not certain the place we are heading will even be open to guests.  We haven't had a long discussion/argument about it since it is so far off yet.  In July we'll see where we are, and hopefully we can agree at that point. 

[solon]

My kids are flying to visit grandparents in early June. They're really looking forward to it.

My wife and I are taking a cruise in October, flying to the port city. We're really looking forward to that!

[Plina]

I normally fly to my parents but I think I will rent a car and drive this summer. It will be necessary to stay one night on the road but that feels better than sitting in a plane.

I am currently trying to figure out the rules for a cancelled flights for next week. We had non refundable ticket that was cancelled by the airline and they only want to pay part of the ticket back, which is not according to the law.

[use2betrix]

I have a flight scheduled for the last week of May to attend an event that is not critical nor required, but a lot of fun. I will likely go, and take necessary precautions. I bought my parents tickets to fly and come see me this month for my Mom’s birthday, however they’re returning them for credit until later in the year.

[Fomerly known as something]

I voted willing to fly now, but I have no reason to nor any plans to fly any time soon.

[Cranky]

No. I’m not going to Italy next week, and I’m not even going to the grocery store.

In a really, really big emergency we would make the 10 hour drive to our kids house stopping as little as possible.

[Freedomin5]

I did fly...twice (international flights)...at the height of the pandemic. I wouldn’t recommend it. It’s not that comfortable having to wear a mask from the time you leave the house until the time you arrive at your final destination. And freaking out every time someone on the plane coughs. In some countries, they will track you down and put you in mandatory quarantine if anyone on your flight tests positive.

For international flights, I’d be more worried about getting into my destination country. For example, China is only admitting Chinese passport holders. Doesn’t matter if you’re a foreigner who holds a valid Chinese-issued work visa. These rules can change at any moment. It would suck if I were mid flight and the rules changed and I couldn’t get into the country.

[Bloop Bloop]

I would be happy to fly now but from a pragmatic point of view the quarantine on coming back would be a downer, so that's a no.

If restrictions were let down I'd do it in a heartbeat but not to a country like Italy or the U.S. that is still having problems.

[SuperNintendo Chalmers]

Well they do recycle the air, but run it through filters which remove 99% or so of contaminants. Maybe we should be concerned with that 1% :-). That aside, there are some other good points about surfaces inside the plane itself, crowded nature of airports etc. Interesting to see the range of responses.

Not sure it would impact likelihood of COVID transmission, but I remember reading an article once about how filthy the tray tables are, and it has haunted me ever since....

[fasteddie911]

I'd be willing to fly if I had a good enough reason to. I don't currently.  This is under the assumption that airports are relatively empty, planes half full, spaced out seating, everyone masks up, etc. Under these assumptions, I actually think flying is relatively low risk. When this pandemic was building and flights/airport were full, I would've thought there'd been more clusters, super-spreading, etc. linked to airports/planes. Cruise ships seemed higher risk. I think the behavioral differences are a factor here.

[2sk22]

For international flights, I’d be more worried about getting into my destination country. For example, China is only admitting Chinese passport holders. Doesn’t matter if you’re a foreigner who holds a valid Chinese-issued work visa. These rules can change at any moment. It would suck if I were mid flight and the rules changed and I couldn’t get into the country.

This arbitrariness in the change of rules is the most troubling aspect of international travel. I would be really nervous about traveling somewhere remote and then being stuck in some grimy quarantine place. It will take a while for this fear to abate for me at least.

[Freedomin5]

Yes, the people who are willing to fly now seem to be focusing primarily on the flight itself. Most people are forgetting about the quarantine procedure and processes after they land. Actual experience flying during the pandemic has shown me that the mandatory covid testing, and the process of getting out of the airport and the stay at a quarantine hotel was MUCH MORE STRESSFUL than the flight itself. Case in point, after being in the air for 15 hours, we were stuck on the plane for 4 hours after landing, and it took us a full 42 hours after landing at Shanghai airport to arrive home, at which point we underwent a 2-week mandatory quarantine.

The flight itself was nothing compared to the stress of post-landing processing. There's no way I would voluntarily put myself under that ordeal "just to travel for fun".

[Plina]

For international flights, I’d be more worried about getting into my destination country. For example, China is only admitting Chinese passport holders. Doesn’t matter if you’re a foreigner who holds a valid Chinese-issued work visa. These rules can change at any moment. It would suck if I were mid flight and the rules changed and I couldn’t get into the country.

This arbitrariness in the change of rules is the most troubling aspect of international travel. I would be really nervous about traveling somewhere remote and then being stuck in some grimy quarantine place. It will take a while for this fear to abate for me at least.

Or in some country without a decent healthcare system. I had some thought per-Corona about going somewhere warm in december this year. I was a year ago in southeast Asia so that is out of question even if I choose the countries with a possibility to decent healthcare. African and South american countries are also out of questions due to poor health care systems and the risk to get stuck somewhere for a long time. Europe is to cold. US is not handling the virus well so it is out of question and I have already visited Hawaii. The only countries left are Australia and New Zeeland. If you consider the air time, the transit needs and the risk for a prolonged visit in quarantine there on your vacation it seems like a good idea to stay home and buy some new woolwear. Vacation out of the country is cancelled for 2020.

[penguintroopers]

The flight itself was nothing compared to the stress of post-landing processing. There's no way I would voluntarily put myself under that ordeal "just to travel for fun".

Agreed. If I'm finding it somewhat stressful to be in the grocery store, there isn't any way I'm going someplace new unless someone really needed me.

[tipster350]

There is no reason I can think of to get on an airplane, for all the reasons stated above. As a US citizen, I have no confidence whatsoever that conditions will be safe enough in every part of the system involved in flying from point A to point B in our domestic airports. With all the maroons and conspiracy theorists among us, I also have no confidence whatsoever that my fellow passengers and workers have done all they can to avoid catching or spreading the virus. Bad actors are in every part of the chain, from greedy corporations who will lie, cut corners, and intimidate, to the government doing the same and more, and workers and travelers not understanding or caring about safety. I'll stay home, thankyouverymuch.

[Christof]

If I have to be that close to many, many people, I‘d rather be on an aircraft rather than a train, a bus or just a room. With airflow going vertical, 50% of the air being replaced during the filter process, good filters and the entire air being exchanged frequently, an aircraft would be the safest place if you have to be close to many, many people. I just have no desire to be close to many people, right now.

[T-Money$]

Flying has been really pleasant lately.   Airports are empty, no delays, flights are cheap and plenty of seats.   It’s so easy to rent a car or find a hotel room these days. 

It’s really therapeutic to get away from the colder, more repressive areas and find some Vitamin D and smiles.   A vacation has never been more welcome.

[JetBlast]

I’ve been flying through this since it’s my job, and apart from limited food choices in airports it’s actually been quite decent domestically. I honestly feel far safer in an airport or on an airplane right now than I do at a grocery store, as far a chances of contracting the virus.

Airports have plenty of space for people to spread out with passenger numbers down 95%. Most flights have been empty to the point that you have a row to yourself. TSA checkpoints have no lines. Nearly everyone is wearing a mask. When passengers board, many use a disinfecting wipe to clean the seat, seat belt, tray table, etc... 

Airlines are cleaning far more often as well. With schedules reduced so much they’re building in longer ground time for aircraft and cleaning aircraft between every flight. Wiping down common touch points and using the ‘fogger’ machines that spray a disinfectant mist over cabin surfaces. In flight service has been dramatically reduced to lessen interaction between flight attendants and passengers, reducing the chance of the virus spreading if someone has it.

Everyone is doing a really good job of respecting social distancing with one exception. When that seatbelt sign is turned off at the arrival gate there’s still that Pavlovian response to jump up into the aisle and get your bags from the overhead bin. Oh well, nobody’s perfect and most people are trying their best.

If I had somewhere domestic to go I’d have no problem flying. Of course that’s the real issue for a lot of people. Between closures, cancelled events, and mandatory quarantine in many places, there aren’t many good reasons to fly right now.

[dodojojo]

Family live across the country or halfway around the world.  I know I'll fly sometime soon because I want to see them.  Soon = within the next year.  But do I want to fly?  I won't even use public transportation right now so there's zero chance I want to spend hours in a small confined space with dozens to hundreds of people.

[Duke03]

I'd be on an air plane right now if I could.  Waiting for the rest of the country to open up.  Looking at you Las Vegas, Flordia Keys, Caribbean...….

[mancityfan]

Thanks for all the contributions. I like the distinction between International (more issues) and Domestic flights here in the US. I may fly internally later in the summer. Not sure yet. I have canceled two big international trips for this year, and am seriously bummed about it. First world problems I know.

[Reynold]

For international flights, I’d be more worried about getting into my destination country. For example, China is only admitting Chinese passport holders. Doesn’t matter if you’re a foreigner who holds a valid Chinese-issued work visa. These rules can change at any moment. It would suck if I were mid flight and the rules changed and I couldn’t get into the country.

I would be fine flying now, though DW would be worried, but this is one reason my company isn't flying anyone around, almost all of the flights I (and many coworkers) would be on are international, and who knows what the rules are in the destination country, the country where you change planes, and US, both ways, on both days.  I don't want to spend 14 days in quarantine in Korea, or Taiwan, or Japan, or China, or the US.  So we are using a lot of videoconferencing.  I had a colleague returning from Asia on Feb. 8 who spent a couple of hours in US Immigration filling out forms on the travel he had been doing in the previous couple of months.  Maybe because he had a flight change in Beijing in early January? (They didn't tell him why he had to do this).  Not fun after spending 30 hours traveling, and its midnight local time. 

Even in the US, Florida was quarantining people from NY area for a while, and I don't know what the rules are today.  Or next week.  But I think the planes and airports themselves are safer than the grocery store. 

[LifePhaseTwo]

I’ll be in “wait and see” mode for a lot longer before I consider air travel. I have always hated the travel days going to and from a vacation destination, and the stress of being trapped on a cramped plane now would be worse than ever. This is likely to be a staycation year for us.

[Much Fishing to Do]

We had a big cross ocean trip scheduled for the Summer, but cancelled it for a travel voucher to use later.  We travel so little I don't see the reason to risk it, and I hate airports anyway, any places I'd need to go you can drive to in a half day (and most experiences I have with airline travel is that any trip turns into a half day lost anyway).

[Cassie]

We had a month trip booked for August in Europe. We were supposed to go to 5 countries. Hoping that the airline cancels or significantly changes the times, etc so we get a refund versus a credit. Already did this with non-refundable tickets on southwest. They initially refused but they got sick of my son quoting DOT rules to them for 90 minutes.

[dodojojo]

Apparently the big 3 US airlines will not mandate face covering and crew will only encourage passengers to cover up.  Considering sneezes can travel up to 200mph and the time spent in a small enclosed space for air travel, I wish they would make face covering mandatory.  Especially as it's been said face coverings are to prevent YOU infecting others. 

[JetBlast]

Apparently the big 3 US airlines will not mandate face covering and crew will only encourage passengers to cover up.  Considering sneezes can travel up to 200mph and the time spent in a small enclosed space for air travel, I wish they would make face covering mandatory.  Especially as it's been said face coverings are to prevent YOU infecting others.

They are mandatory to board and in the air at all of the big 3. If they refuse to wear one during boarding they will not be allowed to travel. If a passenger takes it off in flight the crew will ask them to put it back on, but they’re not going to escalate the situation if a passenger refuses. Just look at the Target employee that had their arm broken while escorting someone out of a store for not wearing a mask. Want that at 35,000 feet?


It’s easy to enforce masks on the ground while boarding because police can handle anyone that gets out of line. Not so easy in the air.

[dodojojo]

I understand physical enforcement isn't ideal while the plane is in the air.  From what I read, "encourage" was used in the article and I wish it was more like, if a passenger refuses to wear a face covering during a flight, they could be banned from the airline or face authorities at arrival, etc. 

If there's a place to cover up, it's a on  4 hour flight in a cylindrical tube with 200 other people.  This isn't huffing about joggers not wearing a mask on a footpath--you can't ask for a more environmentally friendly place for Covid infection than hundreds of people sitting cheek to cheek in an airplane. 

I know--don't fly.  I don't have desire or plans to.  I don't see how the airlines can bounce back if there are people like me who see safety measures are lacking.

[penguintroopers]

Apparently the big 3 US airlines will not mandate face covering and crew will only encourage passengers to cover up.  Considering sneezes can travel up to 200mph and the time spent in a small enclosed space for air travel, I wish they would make face covering mandatory.  Especially as it's been said face coverings are to prevent YOU infecting others.

They are mandatory to board and in the air at all of the big 3. If they refuse to wear one during boarding they will not be allowed to travel. If a passenger takes it off in flight the crew will ask them to put it back on, but they’re not going to escalate the situation if a passenger refuses. Just look at the Target employee that had their arm broken while escorting someone out of a store for not wearing a mask. Want that at 35,000 feet?


It’s easy to enforce masks on the ground while boarding because police can handle anyone that gets out of line. Not so easy in the air.

I'd like to think that social pressure to mask up would be a little higher in a plane than a store. Also, people that are flying are generally more affluent and educated than someone just walking into target. Higher barrier to entry and all that.

[sui generis]

Notwithstanding the two current flyers' contribution on this thread, everything I've read about flying in the last week or so makes me so glad I'm not and don't have to.  It's sounds absolutely awful and even fucked up at times.  Completely full flights (because arilines have cancelled 95% of their scheduled flights, so the few people still flying are all on the 2-3 flights per day that are still happening) with people refusing to wear masks, people trying to pysically block others from taking their assigned seats because they want a whole row to themselves and causing a ruckus.  Maybe not all the same stress of lfying and airports as a few months ago, but new and worse stressors! 

No thank you.

[Freedomin5]

I don’t know about domestic flights, but the international flights to Asia are half empty. The airline we were on socially distanced people, so they didn’t seat people next to each other. A section of the seats were also reserved for “isolation” in case someone gets sick mid-flight. Not that it makes you feel any better when someone two rows from you is hacking and coughing.

[flyingaway]

Thailand is opening on July 1, no quarantine.

[Unique User]

I'm expecting to have to travel to a client site in June.  I was at every other week travel, hoping to keep it less than that through mid-October.  I checked potential flights today and layovers & number of connections are ugly.  Not looking forward to it.