Author Topic: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy  (Read 6369 times)

bikebum

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My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« on: April 16, 2014, 06:54:54 PM »
Hey mustachians!

I came up with a giving amount strategy that I like and figured I could share with those interested.

I like following The Life You Can Save (as mentioned in an MMM article) suggestions, but wasn't sure if the recommended amount was fitting for my situation. You input your income for the year, and the calculator (http://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/TakethePledge/HowMuch.aspx) gives you a recommended percentage to donate which increases with your income. So do you want to donate during working years only, or during working years and in retirement? I like the latter. But if you donate based on your income now, and invest a big chunk of it, and then donate based on your future retirement income which comes from your investments, you end up double-counting your income. And there's nothing wrong with going above and beyond for charity, but maybe you don't want to.

You could subtract the income you invest from the calculation, but then you get a really low number as the calculator thinks your are poorer than you really are. It applies a lower percentage. For example, if you enter $25,000 it recommends you donate 1.2%, and if you enter $50,000 it recommends 1.9%.

I decided to enter my full income, and apply that percentage to my income minus investments. So if you make $50,000 and invest half of it, take the 1.9% and apply it to just $25,000. You will donate more from the other $25,000 when you make withdrawals in retirement. And you could use the same percentage then too, as your retirement income will probably be low and the calculator will think you are poorer than you are.

Now before anyone says this is silly and you should just donate what you're comfortable with, I want to say I agree. But I like to have some guidelines to go by so I feel like I'm doing something reasonable.

Happy giving :)

southern granny

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2014, 02:53:32 PM »
God recommends that I give at least 10 percent.  I am going to have to go with that.

CommonCents

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2014, 03:02:33 PM »
Interesting, I played around and saw it maxes out at 1/3.  I'm not sure how feasible that actually would be, or if you'd be hit with AMT and between donating and taxes, have nothing left to live on.

Ultimately though I'm going to give on what feels right to me, not a random calculator based on Peter Singer.

arebelspy

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 05:52:42 PM »
Ultimately though I'm going to give on what feels right to me, not a random calculator based on Peter Singer.

Sure, but it may not be a bad place to start.

The Life You Can Save is awesome.

I have some charitable giving goals, now I'll go see how they compare to the calculator.

Thanks for the link!
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TreeTired

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 06:34:36 PM »
When I was working and earning,  I gave fairly generously.   I don't remember what the % was, but I felt it was generous.  Over time,  my giving strategy had 2 key elements:    1.  All monetary charitable gifts were initially given to the Fidelity Charitable Gift fund.  This let me time my taxable events (deductions) to coincide with my income and/or need for charitable deduction. It also let me donate via my own "charitable gift fund" like a big shot with a foundation.   I could give monetary gifts to charities when it suited me, without worrying about the tax/calendar year.     and.....   2.   Over time we stopped giving to those admin heavy national charities,  like March of Dimes and Cancer organizations, (and especially United Way)  and concentrated our giving to local charities.   We used to write 50 or more checks at the end of the year to all of those crappy organizations, and they still send us mailing labels, stationery and keychains.  (give me a f'ing break!)   We stopped most of that, and the small local charities really appreciated getting a significant (to them) gift.

Now that we are not working we give very little $$ to charities.   We give a lot of our time.

Nords

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2014, 08:03:44 PM »
When I was working and earning,  I gave fairly generously.   I don't remember what the % was, but I felt it was generous.  Over time,  my giving strategy had 2 key elements:    1.  All monetary charitable gifts were initially given to the Fidelity Charitable Gift fund.  This let me time my taxable events (deductions) to coincide with my income and/or need for charitable deduction. It also let me donate via my own "charitable gift fund" like a big shot with a foundation.   I could give monetary gifts to charities when it suited me, without worrying about the tax/calendar year.     and.....   2.   Over time we stopped giving to those admin heavy national charities,  like March of Dimes and Cancer organizations, (and especially United Way)  and concentrated our giving to local charities.   We used to write 50 or more checks at the end of the year to all of those crappy organizations, and they still send us mailing labels, stationery and keychains.  (give me a f'ing break!)   We stopped most of that, and the small local charities really appreciated getting a significant (to them) gift.

Now that we are not working we give very little $$ to charities.   We give a lot of our time.
We do the same with Fidelity's charitable gift fund, and we make the grants anonymously.  Over the last decade I've been able to squash all the unsolicited mail.  (My daughter and my father now get more postal mail at this address than I do.)  I really like the way that a CGF decouples the donation (for tax timing) from the grant (for the non-profit's timing of challenges, matching fund drives, or special projects). 

We give our money locally because I feel better helping anonymous people on our island more than I'd feel about helping anonymous people on another continent.  Apparently I arbitrarily value some humans more than others, even if they cost more to keep alive.  We've also volunteered time as well as money, although I prefer to donate money (on my own time) rather than show up someplace at a certain time.

Having said that, we've found philanthropy to be less than satisfying.  It's not an unhappy experience, but it's hard to feel the same endorphin jolt from giving a grant to the food bank or the homeless shelter that I feel when I give money to an entrepreneur's startup.  (So far all I know is "angel philanthropy".  It's only angel "investing" when the company has a liquidity exit.)  Again I apparently arbitrarily value some humans more than others. 

I think we're slowly heading in the direction of establishing a college scholarship fund (or donating to someone else's fund) but we haven't tried it yet.

CommonCents

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2014, 09:32:11 PM »
Ultimately though I'm going to give on what feels right to me, not a random calculator based on Peter Singer.

Sure, but it may not be a bad place to start.

The Life You Can Save is awesome.

I have some charitable giving goals, now I'll go see how they compare to the calculator.

Thanks for the link!

Yeah, but...

It's limited - it's a financial calculator only.  It doesn't calculate time investments, which I think can be more beneficial.  (I'm President of a Board of Directors for 4 years now, will do one more year and bow out.  7 years on Board total.  Given a lot of free legal advice, drafting documents, improving governance, fundraising, time at work parties, and so on.)

Second, as BikeBum notes, it's hard to figure out the right sum when you're saving a large chunk of your salary.  According to this, we should donate a fairly large chunk of change, more than we spend on food+utilities+gas+2 train passes for work+clothing+....well, basically all our largely non-discretionary spending excepting our mortgage.  Do you donate the recommend now, hobbling your saving abilities?  Or wait until FI?  (But I recognize most who do that don't actually donate later.  It's as if there is a charitable giving muscle that needs to be regularly exercised.)  Perhaps I'm just having a visceral reaction to spending that much on any one thing.  Anyhow, I figure out my savings goals differently.  It's not as high as recommended nor is it directed at ending world poverty.  Like Nords, I generally donate locally, or to put a spin on it - I follow the principles of Care Ethics here.  :)

But as I said, it's interesting, and I've read his works before in my bioethics grad classes.  It just doesn't work for me.

arebelspy

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2014, 07:20:21 AM »
Yeah, but...

It's limited - it's a financial calculator only.  It doesn't calculate time investments, which I think can be more beneficial.  (I'm President of a Board of Directors for 4 years now, will do one more year and bow out.  7 years on Board total.  Given a lot of free legal advice, drafting documents, improving governance, fundraising, time at work parties, and so on.)

I think that's a cop out.  Of course it can't take into account every situation.  Someone may put in a high income, but have to spend it all on specialized care for a disabled relative, and can't donate as much as suggested.

It's not an end-all, be-all solution.  But dismissing it out of hand, as you've done several times...

/shrug

But do whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

Second, as BikeBum notes, it's hard to figure out the right sum when you're saving a large chunk of your salary.  According to this, we should donate a fairly large chunk of change, more than we spend on food+utilities+gas+2 train passes for work+clothing+....well, basically all our largely non-discretionary spending excepting our mortgage.  Do you donate the recommend now, hobbling your saving abilities?  Or wait until FI?  (But I recognize most who do that don't actually donate later.  It's as if there is a charitable giving muscle that needs to be regularly exercised.)

We've discussed this before, in the Your Mustache Might Be Evil thread.  You're probably too new to the forums for when it actually happened, but I'm surprised you haven't run across it.  You may want to look it up.

Yes, many of us are of the opinion that charitable giving should be a large chunk of your spending, even before FI.

And the calculator is recommending one donate between 1 and 15% or so, likely closer to 5%, if you're an average Mustachian (based on previous polls).  5% isn't going to "hobble" your savings abilities.  Yes, so you drop from a 75% savings rate to 70%, meaning your time to FI goes from 7.1 years to 8.8 years.  And by working that extra 1.7 years, you've donated for all 8 of those years and included it in your FIRE budget to donate for the next (rest of your life) years.

And yes, based on what you spend, it may be the largest expense after a mortgage. (And I hear you on the "sticker shock," as it were - it can seem like a large number and made me pause and reflect.)

Like I said above: Of course it can't take into account every situation.  You'll have to choose the right number for you, whatever makes you happy.

But I hope most Mustachians aren't as quick to immediately dismiss the number it spits out, or the whole concept, just because they can say something pithy like "it's overly simplified' or "I give my time," but will use it as an opportunity to take a hard look at their charitable giving.

I know mine is lacking, and I tweaked the charitable giving goals that I mentioned above based on this, so I appreciated the opportunity for self reflection, at least.
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CommonCents

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2014, 10:06:08 AM »
It's not an end-all, be-all solution.  But dismissing it out of hand, as you've done several times...

/shrug

But do whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

dismissing something out of hand is to refuse it completely without thinking about it or discussing it.  I hardly think: clicking it to check it out, playing around with additional figures beyond my own to understand it better, providing a few critiques, and rating it as "interesting" in my two posts equates to dismissing out of hand, simply because I concluded in the end it wasn't for me.

But if you prefer to be dismissive of a criticism rather than engage regarding a tool's merits and flaws?

/shrug

I find the posts on this forum related to charitable giving to be very interesting.  It's why I've posted to recent threads on my rationale for supporting my college, initiated discussions on whether charitable giving changes as folks become mustachian, argued that volunteering shouldn't be limited to just when FI but a way of life, and discussed how much to give to charity.  It's also why I've looked at research for why people donate, and into quirks such as why the lower-to-middle class tends to give more as a percent of income than the wealthy.  Altruism is an interesting topic in and of itself, but it's also useful on a practical side in trying to understand how to improve the fundraising at my non-profit.

It seems you & I have very different takes to donating.  Although I financially donate (and more than average for my income level), I'm pretty hands on.  I primarily donate to places I've also volunteered at.  The reasons are threefold: 1) It ensures I know the organization and for what my money is being used, 2) it ensures I am financially supporting organizations where I truly believe in the mission of the organization if I’m committed enough to spend my limited free time with it, 3) the hands on experience of seeing my work affect individuals and an organization is rewarding.  It's rare that I donate money to a place that I haven't donated my time, usually when it's a cause to which a friend is committed (e.g. I donated this year and last year to the American Liver Foundation to support a friend's run in the Boston marathon here).  Thus to me, while I recognize that the tool doesn’t preclude also donating time, any discussion of donations is very much incomplete without considering how to donate both time and money.  I could relinquish my charitable responsibilities, accept a part-time job for the same time investment, and donate those earnings (well exceeding the percent suggested by the tool), but that would be an unsatisfactory approach.

As noted above (and in one or two of the posts linked), I also do not follow a utilitarian perspective of ethics regarding donating and therefore, don’t tend to donate to where it might objectively do the most good, such as ending poverty as suggested by this model or (a more important goal in my mind) of clean water.  Instead, I like Nords, primarily donate to local organizations, more akin to a Care Ethics philosophy.  Obviously, one can use this tool as a more general measure, but it’s another aspect of the tool I’ve considered, and determined does not fit with my beliefs and values.

btw, thanks for the nod to the Your Mustache Might be Evil post.  It’s an interesting thread, which I’m going to digest later when I have more time.  Sol addresses a good point, of not sacrificing all values in pursuit of FI, and echoes some thoughts/qualms I mentioned above, recognizing that you need to exercise a charitable giving muscle.

GuitarStv

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2014, 10:20:51 AM »
God recommends that I give at least 10 percent.  I am going to have to go with that.

That's not what He recommended when I last talked with Him.

arebelspy

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2014, 10:50:56 AM »
Statements like:
Quote
I'm going to give on what feels right to me, not a random calculator based on Peter Singer.
and
Quote
It just doesn't work for me.

Seem fairly dismissive to me, but that's fine, I may have misread them, tone is hard to convey on the internet. Thanks for your thoughts CommonCents.

BTW - if you liked the Your Mustache Might Be Evil thread, there's a few other older ones you should check out (search "brick kilns").
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
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MustachianAccountant

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2014, 11:21:00 AM »
God recommends that I give at least 10 percent.  I am going to have to go with that.

That's not what He recommended when I last talked with Him.

Yeah, me neither. I can't find it anywhere in his instruction book either. Unless you're a Jewish farmer...

RetiredAt63

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2014, 11:24:54 AM »
On a general note, I think social charity giving may differ based on country - for example, many see Canada as a "socialist welfare state".  This may mean (I hope it means!) less demand here for social assistance than can occur in other countries with less built-in support.  Note I am being cautious here, I do not have solid numbers.  Personally, I would prefer this to private charities that have "higher" agendas - help based on religion, or social views, for example, are things I would not be comfortable with.  Also, the 10% that went to the Church in Europe funded many social support systems that are now funded by government - how do we take the historical 10% and reallocate it?  At one point it was 10% to the local Lord (i.e. render unto Caesar) and 10% to the Church - 20% taken looks good from here, I will hit tax freedom day somewhere in June this year.

For my own giving, I prefer to give either locally, so that I have a better understanding of the needs and circumstances, or broader giving for things that I think will be broadly helpful.  But I give much more more in time than I do money - that way I know it is being well used, because I can stop doing anything that I think is not being useful.  I did a lot when I was working and then a working parent, and I do more now that I am retired.  But I always gave of my time.

Please note I am not criticizing anyone else's choices, we all have to make our own choices, using our own criteria, for this. 

arebelspy

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2014, 11:25:16 AM »
MOD NOTE: Enough on the religious jibes. Thanks. :)
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
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CommonCents

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2014, 12:31:38 PM »
On a general note, I think social charity giving may differ based on country - for example, many see Canada as a "socialist welfare state".  This may mean (I hope it means!) less demand here for social assistance than can occur in other countries with less built-in support.  Note I am being cautious here, I do not have solid numbers.  Personally, I would prefer this to private charities that have "higher" agendas - help based on religion, or social views, for example, are things I would not be comfortable with. 

Not just countries.  While giving is correlated with religious affiliation, one explanation cited for why charitable is diminished in certain areas of the US such as New England, as compared to other areas, is that those states have much higher state taxes and use those taxes to improve social welfare rather than relying on voluntary donatons.  My state has some of the higher taxes, with a 5.2% state tax, sales tax of 6.25% (and an additional 0.75% in some areas on meals) and local property taxes (median tax of just over 1%).  Compare this w/Nevada, for example, where Arebelspy is located, which ranks as 3 (or 2 if you account for cost of living) lowest average of states in taxes paid.

"People in less religious states are giving in a different way by being more willing to pay higher taxes so the government can equitably distribute superior benefits, Wolfe said. And the distribution is based purely on need, rather than religious affiliation or other variables, said Wolfe, also head of the college's Boisi Center for Religion and Public Life.  Wolfe said people in less religious states "view the tax money they're paying not as something that's forced upon them, but as a recognition that they belong with everyone else, that they're citizens in the common good. ... I think people here believe that when they pay their taxes, they're being altruistic." http://www.nbcnews.com/id/48724664/ns/us_news/t/study-less-religious-states-give-less-charity/

GuitarStv

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2014, 12:45:43 PM »
Giving to charity is correlated to religious affiliation, but that doesn't mean that the money being given goes to people in need.  Giving to a church is technically charity but doesn't correlate to money going to the poor in a very meaningful way.


EDIT -


Hmmm . . .

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/08/21/study-reveals-church-goers-give-more-to-churches-than-people-who-dont-go-to-church-give-to-those-churches/

Quote
the data also indicate that “the generosity ranking changes when religion is taken out of the picture. People in the Northeast give the most, providing 1.4 percent of their discretionary income to secular charities, compared with those in the South, who give 0.9 percent

Apparently church goers are also more likely to misreport their givings:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-briggs/the-flesh-is-weak-churchgoers-give-far-less-than-they-think_b_1846516.html
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 12:48:42 PM by GuitarStv »

CommonCents

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2014, 01:06:08 PM »
Apparently church goers are also more likely to misreport their givings:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-briggs/the-flesh-is-weak-churchgoers-give-far-less-than-they-think_b_1846516.html

Interesting.  Also from that link, eeks: "The generosity survey found just 57 percent of respondents gave more than $25 in the past year to charity."  And that's just respondents to a survey, not even overall giving.

mcneally

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 05:08:51 PM »
I'd like to point out that what the book The Life You Can Save actually argues is that you should basically give away everything beyond a pretty basic comfortable existence. The 2nd page of chapter 2 says "By implication, we should also believe that with the simple act of saving money for retirement, we are acting as badly as [the hypothetical guy who only had time to save his hypothetically uninsurable Bugatti or a child on the train tracks and chose the car]. "

I personally don't live to that standard but I'm mentioning this because the formula at the end of the book and on the website linked in the OP was just arbitrarily created for pragmatic reasons to get more people to actually try to follow it (IMO it gives really low suggestions for someone who is influenced by the book's arguments). Conclusion: the correct answer if give what you're comfortable with.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 05:13:31 PM by mcneally »

bikebum

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2014, 05:59:42 PM »
I'd like to point out that what the book The Life You Can Save actually argues is that you should basically give away everything beyond a pretty basic comfortable existence. The 2nd page of chapter 2 says "By implication, we should also believe that with the simple act of saving money for retirement, we are acting as badly as [the hypothetical guy who only had time to save his hypothetically uninsurable Bugatti or a child on the train tracks and chose the car]. "

I personally don't live to that standard but I'm mentioning this because the formula at the end of the book and on the website linked in the OP was just arbitrarily created for pragmatic reasons to get more people to actually try to follow it (IMO it gives really low suggestions for someone who is influenced by the book's arguments). Conclusion: the correct answer if give what you're comfortable with.

I actually haven't read the book, just the website. Even though the calculator is arbitrary, it seems a lot less arbitrary than just giving what I am comfortable with.

bikebum

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2014, 06:08:54 PM »
Interesting comments about giving time vs. money. I like the idea of giving my time, but I think using my time to make money and donating it to efficient charities will have a bigger impact. I do volunteer for local causes when I see an opportunity.

Nords

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Re: My Charitable Giving Amount Strategy
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2014, 08:34:30 PM »
I actually haven't read the book, just the website. Even though the calculator is arbitrary, it seems a lot less arbitrary than just giving what I am comfortable with.
It's a very good book, and it will change the way you think about philanthrophy... and about yourself.  It's in lots of public libraries.

 

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