Questioned about my badassity :(

[theglobetrotter]

We got to talking about how much I save (not how much is in our accounts but more the methods) and our friends asked why I deprive myself of nice things, or reallocate money instead of using savings, since we can't bring our leftover money into the next life. I told them that there's a very good chance I'd live to at least 70 and possibly over 90 since I have good genes in my family and even hubby's not so healthy dad (he's an example of medical technology greatness) is almost 70. Which means there's a great possibility for my healthy husband to live a long life also and we'd like to be able to support ourselves. They asked what I'd be doing when I'm old with the money and I said things... whatever, travel, spoil the grandkids, get into our hobbies... save lots of puppies! 

They said that while they admire my dedication, they can't deprive their children of activities, basic material things, and that they rather live just on SS than take a few things from their kids in order to save.

I've never deprived our kids of their needs. They're well fed, mostly homemade from scratch and sustainable/organic. We have a modest but nice house. I buy used when possible but always the good stuff. I have a whole shelf of Le Creuset but hubby found half of them at a flea market in France while he was deployed there. I buy new Hanna Andersson coats but since our girls don't grow fast, they last three years! We live with a gymnast (and man on man, gymnastics ain't cheap!!) and also a pianist (and this isn't cheap either). We also manage a few decent vacations a couple times a year -- all are educational, we're not the resort type of people.

We're not here to try and retire super early. We're here in hopes to retire a bit early and comfortably. So we're not being extremely badass about our savings but we do live quite a bit below the husband's earnings. They're good friends of ours and their comments made me somewhat bad about what I'm doing, especially to the kids. None of the girls ever complain about not getting enough. The oldest, 10, even wants to start investing and adding to it ($100) once a year.

Does similar things like this happen to you too?

[Eric]

Of course they can't cut back, or they'd be depriving their kids!!  After all, everyone knows that kids are deprived without structured organized activities that cost money.  In fact, I've never ever seen a kid have fun while playing in the creek, the woods, at the basketball court, jungle gym, sand box, or any other place that didn't involve special equipment and/or an admission fee.  I'm surprised they didn't report you to CPS.

[terrier56]

Your friends believe that you are depriving your kids because they are must more susceptible to advertising. They believe that kids require far more than they actually do and anything else is torture. How many 2 year old really need an iPad?

It's just sad cos they may not retire with enough to get them through the last quarter of life. But no, their kids had to have it.

[Frankies Girl]

You're teaching your kids to prize experiences, use their imaginations and spend time with friends and family over material goods. So how is that depriving them? They really believe throwing plastic crap and gadgets at them and buying high-priced goods and services is better. So being more environmentally friendly by buying used or doing a little price comparison is "depriving" them?

Wow. You might need new friends.

Basically, the friends using the word "deprive" reads to me like they believe you are making your children suffer for your spending/saving decisions. They are judging you for not following along with the crazy consumerism culture they follow.

I would probably ask them exactly how they think your kids will be hurt or suffering by not spending gobs of money?

[AccidentalMiser]

Does similar things like this happen to you too?

No, I don't associate with negative people and certainly don't ask them to pass judgment on my life decisions.

[Daisy]

I don't have kids, but I have a load of nieces and nephews. As they started out in the world, I started to see how they were bombarded with gifts and all sorts of toys that would clutter their homes. The more stuff they got, the less they seemed to appreciate each individual gift. It was also difficult to find something to buy that they didn't already have.

So I vowed to stop contributing to the clutter and turned any birthday or Christmas gift into an "activity" gift. As a child-free person (not by choice), I decided that I'd rather spend time with my nieces and nephews and getting them an "activity" gift was a way to snatch them away from my brothers for some quality time alone with them.

We've done all sorts of things together - airboat rides in the Everglades, surfing lessons, mini golf, water skiing, roller skating, rock climbing, musicals, movies, circus, kayaking, etc. We all had a blast and would look forward to the next one. They tell me they appreciate it more than a physical gift. They do call me the crazy aunt though...I think it's a compliment.

A couple just started college and they are still asking for activity gifts. I'm starting to run out of ideas...

[pka222]

This conversation happens occasionally to me as well..

I was reading a tread- over on ERE I think about personality types - and being a typical ENTJ /INTJ I realize why people judging me rarely registers - I've already seen their inefficiencies, head in the sand attitude toward finances and  decided to talk to them anyway - knowing they have no insight to offer in this area. 

When it comes right down to it- I can be judge as well- example - " you think your kid really wants ANOTHER plastic toy instead of an hour reading a book with dad?" sounds like deprivation to me ..

[payitoff]

Does similar things like this happen to you too?

No, I don't associate with negative people and certainly don't ask them to pass judgment on my life decisions.

+1

i used to hold on to these kinds of friendships coz of the emotional and time invested in the relationship, but overtime, i realize, my life and my family's future is more important, so if they dont support me and my beliefs, then we dont share the same frequency anymore, i move on.

ultimately, when you retire and rely on SS to survive, do you think you have retired with dignity? 

[mxt0133]

Sorry that you had to defend your choices from your own friends.  But if you communicated that you yourself don't feel deprived then it's just a difference of values. 

I have had the same conversations with some old friends that I just can't really relate to anymore.  I try to find other topics of conversation to discuss but if it does involve our lifestyle choices I just explain what we value.  I have noticed that some people take it as a personal attack on their choices and I try my best to explain that it's what right for our family and doesn't necessarily work for everyone else.

[frompa]

putri - I hope you can find confidence in your life choices.  Your post brings to mind two considerations:  First, I was raised in a family that was poor by any monetary standards, but I had a rich and wonderful childhood because I was surrounded by an engaged, lively community of people; I and my siblings learned to be creative, to make, to do, not to spend and buy.  Second, in raising my own children, we applied similar notions to what you describe -- we gave them opportunities and essentials, and encouraged them where their interests were.  Both have grown into interesting, independent, well-educated, creative adults.  Neither have ever complained about feeling deprived when they were kids.  The purely materials things just don't matter that much to children -- I'm pretty sure that materialism is a taught perspective.  So take pride in how you are raising your family and have confidence that you are teaching your children the best life skills.  And maybe put up a little distance between you and these "friends" who feel so free to use their children to defend their own life choices. 

[Thegoblinchief]

It boils down to a difference in values and priorities. I value free to inquire kids, low-impact things, etc -- and this feeds right into ER.

Most of my family and friends think we're cool/admirable. My goblins are clearly very happy and healthy. I don't get much, if any, negative judgment from people. Usually it's "wow, that's cool (for you), but I couldn't live like that (even though I've never tried)".

[jrhampt]

Ask them whether they'd rather deprive their kids of a few things now or have their kids support them in their old age. 

[Sebastian]

Sounds to me like you are worried of what other people think of you aka keeping up with the jones.

Don't worry what other people think. If they are your friends and they are getting upset with you/make fun of you... well then I think you need to reassess your friendship with them.

Generally this stuff does not happen to me because it isn't brought up. If it is I'm the first one to make fun of myself about it and that usually shuts people up quick.

One final thought... if you are worried about people thinking less of you then just don't bring up how much you save or move the topics away from money. Personally when I hear a group of people chatting about money I just sit back and listen to have a laugh. :)

[NeverWasACornflakeGirl]

Ask them whether they'd rather deprive their kids of a few things now or have their kids support them in their old age.

+1
I was thinking the exact same thing.  I doubt their kids will be happy that their parents spent money like crazy when they were younger (and, really, who are they truly afraid of depriving??  I'm pretty sure it's themselves), so that their kids have to pay to support them when they're old.

And, while I'm being judgy myself, why do they really buy all that stuff for their kids?  Because it's a lot easier to entertain kids with iPads or cable or video games than it is to teach them to entertain themselves or to spend time with them.  Plus, if you're working all the time and spend a lot of time commuting so that you can pay for all the stuff and the lessons, you don't have time with your kids, and what little time you do have you are too stressed and exhausted to really interact with them.

So, do I think you're "depriving" your children?  Um, no.  ;-)
/rant

[NeverWasACornflakeGirl]

You might need new friends.

Basically, the friends using the word "deprive" reads to me like they believe you are making your children suffer for your spending/saving decisions. They are judging you for not following along with the crazy consumerism culture they follow.

putri,
I see you haven't posted much.  Once you're on the board for a while you'll see the same thing over and over:  once a person's priorities and values change, it's sort of inevitable that their relationships with their friends change and often they end up with new friends who share their values.  I'm sure this is not true of everyone, but most people like to spend time with other people who value the same things they do. 

[Daleth]

Your friends believe that you are depriving your kids because they are must more susceptible to advertising. They believe that kids require far more than they actually do and anything else is torture.

I suspect that they don't even really believe that, deep down--they're just rationalizing. In other words, making up reasons to feel good about not being as financially wise as you.

Most people are experts at rationalizing, because in addition to making them feel good about past and present choices, it gives them permission to keep on living as they have been, which is a lot easier than making the changes they might feel compelled to make if they actually thought about why they live as they do and whether their choices are consistent with what they really want.

[greenmimama]

I don't have kids, but I have a load of nieces and nephews. As they started out in the world, I started to see how they were bombarded with gifts and all sorts of toys that would clutter their homes. The more stuff they got, the less they seemed to appreciate each individual gift. It was also difficult to find something to buy that they didn't already have.

So I vowed to stop contributing to the clutter and turned any birthday or Christmas gift into an "activity" gift. As a child-free person (not by choice), I decided that I'd rather spend time with my nieces and nephews and getting them an "activity" gift was a way to snatch them away from my brothers for some quality time alone with them.

We've done all sorts of things together - airboat rides in the Everglades, surfing lessons, mini golf, water skiing, roller skating, rock climbing, musicals, movies, circus, kayaking, etc. We all had a blast and would look forward to the next one. They tell me they appreciate it more than a physical gift. They do call me the crazy aunt though...I think it's a compliment.

A couple just started college and they are still asking for activity gifts. I'm starting to run out of ideas...

Great ideas, or adding to a college fund, they won't appreciate it at the moment, but they won't miss getting another toy and they sure will appreciate it once they go to college!! My mom mentioned that a long time ago and I was so excited and it has never happened.

I too was thinking, their kids are going to have to support them in their old age, they better have a great relationship with them now!!

[hybrid]

Realize that you are going against the grain and will likely always be in the minority. Tossing your old friends aside and finding friends that share your frugal values is a lot easier said than done. Online you will get a lot of support here, but in person? Not as easy to be in the small middle class minority that does not get ESPN.

I say just laugh them off and lead by example. Most of my friends are not very frugal. They aren't necessarily deliberately wasteful either, but the vast majority are bleeding lots of cash they don't need to (and until a year ago I was in that same group). They have cable, eat out a lot, all the usual stuff. When I changed my ways I managed to bring a few on board (the ones that already had those tendencies to begin with), the rest I don't worry about.

[jordanread]

I say just laugh them off and lead by example. Most of my friends are not very frugal. They aren't necessarily deliberately wasteful either, but the vast majority are bleeding lots of cash they don't need to (and until a year ago I was in that same group). They have cable, eat out a lot, all the usual stuff. When I changed my ways I managed to bring a few on board (the ones that already had those tendencies to begin with), the rest I don't worry about.

Emphasis mine...

This. I've found that sometimes relationships change when your lifestyle does, while other times, you just carry on, have fun with your friends, and don't sweat it.

I usually laugh comments like those off. The laughing has a tendency to keep the other party from going on the defensive, escalating the situation, and sometimes makes them think about it, but gives them an out (like: well he's just nuts...oh well). Also, with the perspective shift towards badassity, I've found that when I verbalize it in a super-positive manner, it takes people aback.

Some of my comments I use:

• Why would I want to go out to eat? I have this grill, and this table, and it's a beautiful day. Oh, and I just tried making this new BBQ sauce that is going to be awesome!!
• Today is way too beautiful to be stuck in a car!!
• Toys and stuff are cool, and can be fun, but I just had an amazing game of flashlight tag...with imaginary flashlights!! My nephew kicked my ass. It was a blast!!

[Dr.Vibrissae]

We got to talking about how much I save (not how much is in our accounts but more the methods) and our friends asked why I deprive myself of nice things, or reallocate money instead of using savings, since we can't bring our leftover money into the next life. I told them that there's a very good chance I'd live to at least 70 and possibly over 90 since I have good genes in my family and even hubby's not so healthy dad (he's an example of medical technology greatness) is almost 70. Which means there's a great possibility for my healthy husband to live a long life also and we'd like to be able to support ourselves. They asked what I'd be doing when I'm old with the money and I said things... whatever, travel, spoil the grandkids, get into our hobbies... save lots of puppies! 

They said that while they admire my dedication, they can't deprive their children of activities, basic material things, and that they rather live just on SS than take a few things from their kids in order to save.

I don't know your friends, but I tend to agree with Daleth that their comments are likely more a rationalization for their own habits than a condemnation of yours.  Sometimes people make comments like these without really thinking about what they're saying/implying, and my approach is to gently call them on it:  "Wow, do you really think we're depriving our kids?  I think they're doing well, they get to participate in their favorite (expensive) activities, have nice clothes, plenty of food etc.  I hope you don't think we're hurting them by keeping things simple."

They really may not have thought about how their remarks could be insulting.  If on the other hand they don't immediately demure and continue to denigrate your decisions, then yeah, they might not be the best people to continue seeing.   Either way, I tend to avoid loaded financial topics with people I know have less interest in them.

[TrulyStashin]

Don't get into a real conversation with your friends about this.   If you engage, someone will get their feelings hurt and/ or get defensive.  You already know what that feels like, don't add anymore of that feeling to your life or anyone else's.

Instead, deflect with humor and shift the conversation back to them.   "Gee, I hadn't thought about that.   Are you taking any fun vacations this year?"   Or "I guess I'll have to budget for my kids' therapy someday.  So, did you [watch the meteor shower last week]?" (insert appropriate activity here as needed)   Or just be noncommittal, "That's an interesting point of view."

You don't need them to validate what you're doing. That's what you have us for.  ;)

[rujancified]

I don't have kids, but I have a load of nieces and nephews. As they started out in the world, I started to see how they were bombarded with gifts and all sorts of toys that would clutter their homes. The more stuff they got, the less they seemed to appreciate each individual gift. It was also difficult to find something to buy that they didn't already have.

So I vowed to stop contributing to the clutter and turned any birthday or Christmas gift into an "activity" gift. As a child-free person (not by choice), I decided that I'd rather spend time with my nieces and nephews and getting them an "activity" gift was a way to snatch them away from my brothers for some quality time alone with them.

We've done all sorts of things together - airboat rides in the Everglades, surfing lessons, mini golf, water skiing, roller skating, rock climbing, musicals, movies, circus, kayaking, etc. We all had a blast and would look forward to the next one. They tell me they appreciate it more than a physical gift. They do call me the crazy aunt though...I think it's a compliment.

A couple just started college and they are still asking for activity gifts. I'm starting to run out of ideas...

My "crazy aunt" did this for us for years as well - she called it Girls' Night Out (or Boys'). She and I would do manicures and "fancy" dinners. I cherish those memories with her and it was so much better than more stuff.

[Mrs. Frugalwoods]

I say just laugh them off and lead by example. Most of my friends are not very frugal. They aren't necessarily deliberately wasteful either, but the vast majority are bleeding lots of cash they don't need to (and until a year ago I was in that same group). They have cable, eat out a lot, all the usual stuff. When I changed my ways I managed to bring a few on board (the ones that already had those tendencies to begin with), the rest I don't worry about.

Emphasis mine...

This. I've found that sometimes relationships change when your lifestyle does, while other times, you just carry on, have fun with your friends, and don't sweat it.

I usually laugh comments like those off. The laughing has a tendency to keep the other party from going on the defensive, escalating the situation, and sometimes makes them think about it, but gives them an out (like: well he's just nuts...oh well). Also, with the perspective shift towards badassity, I've found that when I verbalize it in a super-positive manner, it takes people aback.

Some of my comments I use:

• Why would I want to go out to eat? I have this grill, and this table, and it's a beautiful day. Oh, and I just tried making this new BBQ sauce that is going to be awesome!!
• Today is way too beautiful to be stuck in a car!!
• Toys and stuff are cool, and can be fun, but I just had an amazing game of flashlight tag...with imaginary flashlights!! My nephew kicked my ass. It was a blast!!

Yes, yes, yes! The question I often get is "are you really happy not spending money?" This shocks me every time! I don't understand how money has become conflated with a happy and fulfilling life. I say, do what works for you and what fits your purpose and goals. I also tune up the positive responses, partly because I really AM happy as a frugal person and partly because non-mustachians do not seem to appreciate my awesome stories about finding my winter coat and my husband's fave dress shirt in the trash by the side of the road :)...

[Meggslynn]

Yes, this happens to me often. The comments do make me feel bad but then I remember that they don't truly understand where I am coming from, they priorities are not the same as mine, and they will be eating their words when in ten years I will be travelling to my hearts desire (my $$$ hobby) and I will be retired when I am 50.

It can be really frustrating at times especially when the people are close to you and they bring your kids in to it. I have said before that we don't believe in each child needing their own IPAD, IPHONE, IGIZMO and that our kids our perfectly happy and content playing in the wilderness.

[CommonCents]

I think don't engage is good advice but hard to do.  I think I'd simply ask them, "What specifically do you think that my kids are deprived of?"  And remind them that as kids, we didn't have as many electronic gadgets and gizmos, and that there's evidence showing it's not great for the health of kids to be hooked up all of the time.

[MrScottStache]

I don't have kids, but I have a load of nieces and nephews. As they started out in the world, I started to see how they were bombarded with gifts and all sorts of toys that would clutter their homes. The more stuff they got, the less they seemed to appreciate each individual gift. It was also difficult to find something to buy that they didn't already have.

So I vowed to stop contributing to the clutter and turned any birthday or Christmas gift into an "activity" gift. As a child-free person (not by choice), I decided that I'd rather spend time with my nieces and nephews and getting them an "activity" gift was a way to snatch them away from my brothers for some quality time alone with them.

We've done all sorts of things together - airboat rides in the Everglades, surfing lessons, mini golf, water skiing, roller skating, rock climbing, musicals, movies, circus, kayaking, etc. We all had a blast and would look forward to the next one. They tell me they appreciate it more than a physical gift. They do call me the crazy aunt though...I think it's a compliment.

A couple just started college and they are still asking for activity gifts. I'm starting to run out of ideas...

I'm starting to do this with my Nieces and Nephews.  Much more memorable than stuff.

[YK-Phil]

Reading this, I find that I am pretty much like you. I have friends who are happily living in, or dreaming of, a life of overconsumption, like one who just bought himself a $60,000 Mercedes and the other who was raving about this ridiculous and ostentatious 11,000-square-feet house in Calgary. While she will likely never have enough money to buy such house, her life will be consumed with the "need" for granite/marble countertops, top of the line kitchen appliances, and whatever else is becoming the "must-have" in our society.

Isn'it it weird that we have more things in common, as strangers here on this forum, than with most of our own real-life friends and relatives?

[okashira]

We got to talking about how much I save (not how much is in our accounts but more the methods) and our friends asked why I deprive myself of nice things, or reallocate money instead of using savings, since we can't bring our leftover money into the next life. I told them that there's a very good chance I'd live to at least 70 and possibly over 90 since I have good genes in my family and even hubby's not so healthy dad (he's an example of medical technology greatness) is almost 70. Which means there's a great possibility for my healthy husband to live a long life also and we'd like to be able to support ourselves. They asked what I'd be doing when I'm old with the money and I said things... whatever, travel, spoil the grandkids, get into our hobbies... save lots of puppies! 

They said that while they admire my dedication, they can't deprive their children of activities, basic material things, and that they rather live just on SS than take a few things from their kids in order to save.

I've never deprived our kids of their needs. They're well fed, mostly homemade from scratch and sustainable/organic. We have a modest but nice house. I buy used when possible but always the good stuff. I have a whole shelf of Le Creuset but hubby found half of them at a flea market in France while he was deployed there. I buy new Hanna Andersson coats but since our girls don't grow fast, they last three years! We live with a gymnast (and man on man, gymnastics ain't cheap!!) and also a pianist (and this isn't cheap either). We also manage a few decent vacations a couple times a year -- all are educational, we're not the resort type of people.

We're not here to try and retire super early. We're here in hopes to retire a bit early and comfortably. So we're not being extremely badass about our savings but we do live quite a bit below the husband's earnings. They're good friends of ours and their comments made me somewhat bad about what I'm doing, especially to the kids. None of the girls ever complain about not getting enough. The oldest, 10, even wants to start investing and adding to it ($100) once a year.

Does similar things like this happen to you too?

Ouch. If someone talked to me like that, I would have let her have it right then and there. I feel for you.

[Numbers Man]

they rather live just on SS than take a few things from their kids in order to save.

I think it's much easier to have that attitude of ignorance at age 37 versus age 67. Life can be a cruel teacher.

[homeymomma]

I disagree with the people saying you should categorically write these people off as friends. I understand it probably took you by surprise, but they were probably just being honest, as were you. Clearly, you have different goals for your children now and your future retirement, but that doesn't make you incompatible in every way. Unless you are so insecure about your own choices that their opinion might sway you, which I doubt.
Who knows? Your conversation may have planted a seed for them. In a couple years perhaps you'll notice them making some more frugal decisions, and maybe they'll have you to thank.
Many people on this forum were once not frugal, and we've come around for various reasons. Most of us still have non-frugal friends. Obviously it's easier to live ultra-frugal if all of your friends are Mustachian but considering how few and far between we are, I'd consider that a pretty dull life if those are your criteria for socializing.
I would just avoid bringing it up, and of course don't allow peer pressure to coerce you into doing activities that are beyond your financial comfort zone. If they give you a hard time without you bringing it up, then obviously they are jerks and you should move on. But if their opinion only came up in the context of a mutual discussion, I think they are entitled to share it with you. And vice versa.

I sometimes worry we are depriving our kids of things, by being so frugal. We were both raised with money and all the trappings, but I remind myself that our priorities are different (having a stay at home parent) and that as long as we are living our values, the financial cost (high or low) of raising our kids is secondary.

[Cassie]

Fortunately when I was raising my kids (ages now 34, 37, 41) all of our friends were living like us-good Midwestern values I guess or maybe it was just the times.  Now however, since I live on the WEst Coast things are very different.  I actually have ended friendships because eventually it seemed like we had nothing left in common.  Some of these friendships I probably tried to make work for to long.  Also once I let a few go I made more friends that were more in line with my values.

[Undecided]

I disagree with the people saying you should categorically write these people off as friends.

I have always been relatively frugal. For my adult life, I have been relatively highly paid and mostly lived in major financial or business centers with high COLAs. So I have been a frugal person living in a place, and a setting, in which many people were striving, money-obsessed spenders. And I've been friends with many of them, but on the basis of whatever else we had in common. And I've never had a problem with this. I suppose it would be different, though, if I had been more like that and were now changing course, but still surrounded by friends with whom I'd shared mutual profligacy.

[Zamboni]

I wonder how your friends' children will feel about their financial choices to spoil them as tots once they've had to retire with no savings and start looking to their adult children for financial support . . .

[waynesmate]

My husband grew up in pretty modest times in a frugal family. No international vacations, there weren't fancy gadgets for kids then, and if one of the kids wanted something special and it wasn't Christmastime, they were expected to save up the money themselves.
The result? As a grade-school kid, he worked a whole variety of jobs in the morning before school (milk boy, possum trapper, for example) and spent his youth fishing, hunting, camping, playing rugby, riding his bike, riding horses, "surfing" on whatever they could find or piece together, playing in the estuary, and generally keeping himself well-occupied (and fit!). As an adult, he's one of the least lazy people (and THE least neurotic person) I know, a jack-of-all-trades/MacGuyver type who never complains.  I'm sure if he were asked if he felt "deprived" as a kid, he'd say that he was a lucky kid, and he's glad he didn't spend his childhood looking at a screen or being spoiled.
In the nicest way possible, I think his upbringing gave him the message "you're not the center of the world. If you want something, work for it. Go outside and have fun, but don't be late for dinner."

No therapy needed ;)

Edited to add:

A bit of a tangent, but this is a great 10-minute documentary about a family of Ohio dairy farmers. The kids do heaps of work around the farm and seem pretty damn happy. What made me think of it was the father talks about how the kids love working on the farm because they love feeling important and needed, and love to contribute and see the results of their work. A nice old-school perspective that is refreshing:

http://www.theperennialplate.com/episodes/2011/10/episode-74-gods-country/

[kite]

Am I the oddball?
We never discuss spending/savings habits with friends.   

[Zamboni]

^No, I think that's pretty normal.  But social pressure to "join the herd" on certain spendy activities outs the frugal and thrifty as being different when they do no comply.

[theglobetrotter]

Thank you everyone for the support and comments!! I think the whole thing just took me by surprise.

I've always been frugal. It's how I was raised (Asian/Chinese heritage). I was fortunate to have been born into a financially comfortable family. But being a Chinese family, we lived like we only made $12k/year and if we want extra, we had to work for it. We always had enough. I even had lots of toys! My parents would throw us a (potluck) party on our birthdays and that's how we got them. They'd spend $50 on food (veggie stir fry noodles with little sides and basic drinks) and invite 20-30ppl. We got at least 10 really nice toys each birthday and end up with lots of food! Despite their frugalness, we always go on trips. By the time I was 6yrs old I've been half way around the world. Culture and open mindedness has to be learned in person.

Before I quit my job to move overseas and be a SAHM, I was making more than hubby. But we lived just on his salary. Cars were paid for, my hobbies were free (I got really good at them that companies hired me to do work for them and so I got 75% of my supplies paid for :)), and our really nice house was a low mortgage (yay for sweat equity and we were also the general contractor -- the bank we borrowed from trusted us). I still loved shopping at Pottery Barn, Crate and Barrel Williams Sonoma, etc but to me, they were investments -- once you go good knife, you can't go back ;) Plus I always buy when they are on sale. It was only when people visit our house (and being in the country, it wasn't often), that they wonder how much we took home and where the rest of our money went. But nobody ever ask or comment although I did influence my colleague to start investing!

Now, we live in a house paid for by the government in England. Utilities included. 90% of our friends now are British. None of them has a clue how much we make (or maybe they do, military pay is online after all) although everybody and their realtors know that the military people gets a (high) housing allowance which drives the rental prices up quite a bit around this area. They just assumed that we make enough and the nice things we have we're from our purchases before we moved here. We've been here over 4yrs and never talk about finances with friends. Until the other day.

We love our friends but good gosh, most spend like it's their last day on earth!! These same friends are the type to buy similar things for all their kids just to be fair. So if one kid needs shoes, all three would get shoes. When the kids get Christmas money, they would go shopping and spend it all. If at the end of the month they have extra money, they feel like they did well. I can see how it's odd to them when they heard me say to hubby: "Well, I decided to buy the shoes I wanted next month since dd1 needs some soon." When they asked why wait and I explained that it's not in the budget, they felt a bit dumbfounded (they know at least we don't live paycheck to paycheck). So I got to telling them about me budgeting for everything, a big yearly budget and a monthly. They said in the 4yrs they knew me they didn't realize I was this tight and strict with the spending. They're tight because they don't make enough (or they said they don't make enough, they both work professional jobs) where we're tight by choice. To them, our lifestyle sounds miserable. When I tried telling them that I love saving and watching our money grow, I felt like they were thinking I was Scrooge :/

I've only been here for a few weeks, here in this forum that is. I found you all by accident while researching on investing (since I just divorced Edward Jones). And sooooooo happy to find others (non-Asians and family, ha ha) who are more frugal than I am! My hubby's not bad but he still thinks I am crazy sometimes :) It's great to know that there are far crazier folks than me and that they are close to seeing results or already there!!

[Cassie]

That is the most ridiculous thing to get all the kids shoes if one needs them.  I did buy my kids new shoes & some new clothes at the start of every school year but certainly not a whole new wardrobe.  These people are being very shortsighted and will not be able to live off of SSI.  Especially since they are not used to living within their means now.   My kids always did some low cost activities but they also had plenty of time to play outside with the neighbor kids.   We never had all the latest electronics, etc.

[CarDude]

Thank you everyone for the support and comments!! I think the whole thing just took me by surprise.

I've always been frugal. It's how I was raised (Asian/Chinese heritage). I was fortunate to have been born into a financially comfortable family. But being a Chinese family, we lived like we only made $12k/year and if we want extra, we had to work for it. We always had enough. I even had lots of toys! My parents would throw us a (potluck) party on our birthdays and that's how we got them. They'd spend $50 on food (veggie stir fry noodles with little sides and basic drinks) and invite 20-30ppl. We got at least 10 really nice toys each birthday and end up with lots of food! Despite their frugalness, we always go on trips. By the time I was 6yrs old I've been half way around the world. Culture and open mindedness has to be learned in person.

Before I quit my job to move overseas and be a SAHM, I was making more than hubby. But we lived just on his salary. Cars were paid for, my hobbies were free (I got really good at them that companies hired me to do work for them and so I got 75% of my supplies paid for :)), and our really nice house was a low mortgage (yay for sweat equity and we were also the general contractor -- the bank we borrowed from trusted us). I still loved shopping at Pottery Barn, Crate and Barrel Williams Sonoma, etc but to me, they were investments -- once you go good knife, you can't go back ;) Plus I always buy when they are on sale. It was only when people visit our house (and being in the country, it wasn't often), that they wonder how much we took home and where the rest of our money went. But nobody ever ask or comment although I did influence my colleague to start investing!

Now, we live in a house paid for by the government in England. Utilities included. 90% of our friends now are British. None of them has a clue how much we make (or maybe they do, military pay is online after all) although everybody and their realtors know that the military people gets a (high) housing allowance which drives the rental prices up quite a bit around this area. They just assumed that we make enough and the nice things we have we're from our purchases before we moved here. We've been here over 4yrs and never talk about finances with friends. Until the other day.

We love our friends but good gosh, most spend like it's their last day on earth!! These same friends are the type to buy similar things for all their kids just to be fair. So if one kid needs shoes, all three would get shoes. When the kids get Christmas money, they would go shopping and spend it all. If at the end of the month they have extra money, they feel like they did well. I can see how it's odd to them when they heard me say to hubby: "Well, I decided to buy the shoes I wanted next month since dd1 needs some soon." When they asked why wait and I explained that it's not in the budget, they felt a bit dumbfounded (they know at least we don't live paycheck to paycheck). So I got to telling them about me budgeting for everything, a big yearly budget and a monthly. They said in the 4yrs they knew me they didn't realize I was this tight and strict with the spending. They're tight because they don't make enough (or they said they don't make enough, they both work professional jobs) where we're tight by choice. To them, our lifestyle sounds miserable. When I tried telling them that I love saving and watching our money grow, I felt like they were thinking I was Scrooge :/

I've only been here for a few weeks, here in this forum that is. I found you all by accident while researching on investing (since I just divorced Edward Jones). And sooooooo happy to find others (non-Asians and family, ha ha) who are more frugal than I am! My hubby's not bad but he still thinks I am crazy sometimes :) It's great to know that there are far crazier folks than me and that they are close to seeing results or already there!!

It sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders. Your friends just don't get why you aren't spending as much as possible since it's what they do. You can just shrug it off and explain you'd rather spend less money and have more time.

[mbl]

It sounds like  these friends simply have a different value system than you do.     It seems  that the way they appear to handle money doesn't make sense to you and reciprocally, they seem to feel the same way about you.     Accept that  people are different.     I suspect that this is more of an issue of self-confidence on your part and self-esteem more  than anything else.
You wrote:  "Culture and open mindedness has to be learned in person. "   Not really certain exactly what this statement means as we experience everything "in person", but,  I don't get the sense that you're very open-minded with regards to these new friends.     Keep in mind that often we don't have a remote clue as to what brings others to how and why they think and do the things they do.   It's grossly presumptuous to stand in judgement as well. 
If you feel that somehow you're superior to those that don't do what you do, then you will probably isolate yourself in many ways.     A frugality snob if you will.   "I am more frugal/more organic eating/more sustainable"....blah, blah, blah.     You  value material things as much as they do but have a different way to get them.
If you want to engage people, learn to find some common ground.    If you feel the need to proselytize then do by example.
Each has his own way of navigating.  It can be proven that there truly is no one correct way to do things.   We each do what we are most comforable with.    You've never known deprivation in your life.   If you had, it is possible that your outlook might be different.
NOTE:  I am by nature a frugal person.  It is what I default to.   But I have come to understand that for many they don't or ever will share the value or comfort that I experience in this.   I also, and this is crucial to getting along out there,  don't see myself as better than others.  Everyone brings something to the show. 

[waltworks]

Your friends are idiots, probably. That said, there is a kernel of truth (potentially) - there are things and experiences in life that cost money, and for some people spending that money now to have the item or the experience is worth it. We could all be living on gruel and sleeping on the street in a cardboard box, and save even more, right?

The point is that one person's extravagance can be another's basic necessity. You can fall far on one end of the spectrum or the other and most of us would define the typical western possessions-oriented lifestyle as wasteful (plus there's plenty of evidence that it doesn't make you any happier). But there's plenty of room for variation in useful, happiness-creating spending among individuals. I own a stupid expensive house that will set back FI by at least 5 years for my family - but it's at a ski resort surrounded by mountain bike trails, great schools and clean air where we can do all the activities we love. Is my expensive house a stupid move? For some people yes, for me no. If I hated my job and wasn't a skier/mountain biker, it would certainly be an idiotic bit of conspicuous consumption. 

So save your money. But if you think something will be really fun/educational/give you great joy, don't let FI numbers rule it out. Life can be shorter than you think, too.

-W

[jordanread]

[...]
The point is that one person's extravagance can be another's basic necessity. You can fall far on one end of the spectrum or the other and most of us would define the typical western possessions-oriented lifestyle as wasteful (plus there's plenty of evidence that it doesn't make you any happier). But there's plenty of room for variation in useful, happiness-creating spending among individuals. I own a stupid expensive house that will set back FI by at least 5 years for my family - but it's at a ski resort surrounded by mountain bike trails, great schools and clean air where we can do all the activities we love. Is my expensive house a stupid move? For some people yes, for me no. If I hated my job and wasn't a skier/mountain biker, it would certainly be an idiotic bit of conspicuous consumption. 

So save your money. But if you think something will be really fun/educational/give you great joy, don't let FI numbers rule it out. Life can be shorter than you think, too.

This kind of goes along with the latest blog post that MMM wrote. It's all about having the freedom to choose what is valuable to you, and mindfully making decisions.

In OP's situation, as long as what you are doing lines up with your values, and you think about what they said objectively, you will either find that they are right, and you can use that, or they are wrong, and they are projecting their mindlessness onto you, which shouldn't phase you in the least. :-)

[mbl]

jordan and walt.....well stated. 

[YK-Phil]

My husband grew up in pretty modest times in a frugal family. No international vacations, there weren't fancy gadgets for kids then, and if one of the kids wanted something special and it wasn't Christmastime, they were expected to save up the money themselves.
The result? As a grade-school kid, he worked a whole variety of jobs in the morning before school (milk boy, possum trapper, for example) and spent his youth fishing, hunting, camping, playing rugby, riding his bike, riding horses, "surfing" on whatever they could find or piece together, playing in the estuary, and generally keeping himself well-occupied (and fit!). As an adult, he's one of the least lazy people (and THE least neurotic person) I know, a jack-of-all-trades/MacGuyver type who never complains.  I'm sure if he were asked if he felt "deprived" as a kid, he'd say that he was a lucky kid, and he's glad he didn't spend his childhood looking at a screen or being spoiled.
In the nicest way possible, I think his upbringing gave him the message "you're not the center of the world. If you want something, work for it. Go outside and have fun, but don't be late for dinner."

No therapy needed ;)

Edited to add:

A bit of a tangent, but this is a great 10-minute documentary about a family of Ohio dairy farmers. The kids do heaps of work around the farm and seem pretty damn happy. What made me think of it was the father talks about how the kids love working on the farm because they love feeling important and needed, and love to contribute and see the results of their work. A nice old-school perspective that is refreshing:

http://www.theperennialplate.com/episodes/2011/10/episode-74-gods-country/

Thanks for the link, it was buried at the end of your post and I almost missed it. What a wonderful little doc, about a wonderful family.

[Neustache]

OP:  I have two kids, under 6, and right now their paid activities are a grand total of ZERO.  Do NOT feel guilty - kids get so much from extended family giftwise that we are weird and really only do a couple of gifts for birthday and Christmas.  We are providing them a stable, financially secure home, and I don't think there's anything much more valuable than that.  You are doing a great job, keep it up!

I don't have kids, but I have a load of nieces and nephews. As they started out in the world, I started to see how they were bombarded with gifts and all sorts of toys that would clutter their homes. The more stuff they got, the less they seemed to appreciate each individual gift. It was also difficult to find something to buy that they didn't already have.

So I vowed to stop contributing to the clutter and turned any birthday or Christmas gift into an "activity" gift. As a child-free person (not by choice), I decided that I'd rather spend time with my nieces and nephews and getting them an "activity" gift was a way to snatch them away from my brothers for some quality time alone with them.

We've done all sorts of things together - airboat rides in the Everglades, surfing lessons, mini golf, water skiing, roller skating, rock climbing, musicals, movies, circus, kayaking, etc. We all had a blast and would look forward to the next one. They tell me they appreciate it more than a physical gift. They do call me the crazy aunt though...I think it's a compliment.

A couple just started college and they are still asking for activity gifts. I'm starting to run out of ideas...

Daisy - this is great!!  I'm going to encourage this in our family, maybe starting when the kiddos hit a little older.  I'll start with my nephews and hope it catches on to my kids. 

[Cwadda]

They said that while they admire my dedication, they can't deprive their children of activities, basic material things, and that they rather live just on SS than take a few things from their kids in order to save.

At this socioeconomic class in society, kids have more than enough for what they need to live. It's the lifestyle that people subject their kids to. When people raise their kids going out to dinner several times per week, giving them $60/month cell phone plans at young ages, buying them brand new cars, going on international vacations yearly, $1000 proms, the kids don't know anything better. It's not the kids fault. It's all about the lifestyle established. You're not depriving them of anything.

[happy]

Its likely to come up from time to time…if you otherwise like your friends practice some responses so you don't feel bad or create awkwardness. Make a joke, be self deprecating " I'm such a control freak when it comes to money…" or even make an educational response depending. Or if you think the other person is being obnoxious go for something more feisty.

[Basenji]

I don't have kids, but I have a load of nieces and nephews. As they started out in the world, I started to see how they were bombarded with gifts and all sorts of toys that would clutter their homes. The more stuff they got, the less they seemed to appreciate each individual gift. It was also difficult to find something to buy that they didn't already have.

So I vowed to stop contributing to the clutter and turned any birthday or Christmas gift into an "activity" gift. As a child-free person (not by choice), I decided that I'd rather spend time with my nieces and nephews and getting them an "activity" gift was a way to snatch them away from my brothers for some quality time alone with them.

We've done all sorts of things together - airboat rides in the Everglades, surfing lessons, mini golf, water skiing, roller skating, rock climbing, musicals, movies, circus, kayaking, etc. We all had a blast and would look forward to the next one. They tell me they appreciate it more than a physical gift. They do call me the crazy aunt though...I think it's a compliment.

A couple just started college and they are still asking for activity gifts. I'm starting to run out of ideas...

You are awesome. Just wanted to tell you.

[partgypsy]

The biggest negative feedback we have gotten, is from parents in law, who simply do not understand why we stay in a less than 1500 sq feet house where the girls share a room, with no driveway/garage and small backyard, rather than upgrading because we can "afford it". Why: the location is awesome where we can literally bike or walk to our workplaces and other amenties, our friends are here, our mortgage reasonable and will be paid off in 12 years.
But no, I we haven't got much negative feedback about how we raise our kids. My husband is practically stay at home (works 1-2 days a week) so he is hands on doing things with our kids. Other kids have confided to my kids how lucky they are that they get to spend so much time with their Dad.
My big head check when I wonder if I'm depriving them, is think about the things that enriched me and I valued when I was growing up, versus what people's pre-conceived notions are. Family vacations and adventures yes, but does not have to be to expensive places. Summer activities yes, but again doesn't have to be structured or paid activities. To tell the truth because I grew up in a house with 1 tv that wasn't on that much, and one primitive computer, we had to be creative in creating our own play. So to give opportunities for that, versus handing everything on a platter. And of course spending time with family and playdates.   One of my fondest memories all of us kids getting a tape cassette from somewhere. After listening to comedy albums (Steve Martin, Bill Cosby, SNL) we would write up our own stories and skits and then record them on the tape cassette, totally cracking ourselves up in the process. Our favorites were the fake news stories.

[Daisy]

I don't have kids, but I have a load of nieces and nephews. As they started out in the world, I started to see how they were bombarded with gifts and all sorts of toys that would clutter their homes. The more stuff they got, the less they seemed to appreciate each individual gift. It was also difficult to find something to buy that they didn't already have.

So I vowed to stop contributing to the clutter and turned any birthday or Christmas gift into an "activity" gift. As a child-free person (not by choice), I decided that I'd rather spend time with my nieces and nephews and getting them an "activity" gift was a way to snatch them away from my brothers for some quality time alone with them.

We've done all sorts of things together - airboat rides in the Everglades, surfing lessons, mini golf, water skiing, roller skating, rock climbing, musicals, movies, circus, kayaking, etc. We all had a blast and would look forward to the next one. They tell me they appreciate it more than a physical gift. They do call me the crazy aunt though...I think it's a compliment.

A couple just started college and they are still asking for activity gifts. I'm starting to run out of ideas...

You are awesome. Just wanted to tell you.

Thanks!