Quebec City - the perfect lean-FIRE destination? :)

[9patch]

You forgot to mention the winter carnival. That is the funnest part of being a tourist in Quebec city. I'm not sure if the locals love it as much.

[RetiredAt63]

One thing not discussed (or perhaps I missed it) is how differently children are treated who come from anglophone families, even if they themselves grow up going to french schools and are completely bilingual as toddlers. That was a really hard realization for us, and it isn’t obvious at first.

This for sure. And it is not just the adults.

DD was in French immersion in elementary school.  Both the English and French High Schools in our area were not that great (think police dogs checking lockers for drugs not great) so we sent her to the local private French school.  The good thing was that tuition was much lower than it would have been for a private English school.  Her teachers were great, most of the students were great - but some of the students were really nasty because she was an Anglophone.

It worked out really well, she is fluently bilingual to the point than when she meets Francophones they think she is bilingual French.  She never had trouble finding jobs during university and got a job with the Feds right after graduation.  But there were times her first year there when we all wondered if we had made the right decision.

[snowball]

Oh, good thread.  Posting to follow...as a leanFIRE, child-free, car-free Canuck expat who might be repatriating next year, Quebec City may be a good option for my circumstances and preferences.  All I know is I'm not moving back to the West Coast, lol;  I still have to decide where else in Canada I might want to hang my hat.  For the first while, anyway...Quebec City's cost of living would be really nice from the point of view of keeping expenses low for the first few years of FIRE, when sequence of returns risk is more critical.  And it ticks a lot of other boxes for me too.

@LetsRetireYoung, we should meet up if I find myself out there (assuming you are still there)!

[AMandM]

One thing not discussed (or perhaps I missed it) is how differently children are treated who come from anglophone families, even if they themselves grow up going to french schools and are completely bilingual as toddlers. That was a really hard realization for us, and it isn’t obvious at first.

Do you think this is particular to Quebec City, or a recent phenomenon? I'm one of those kids, and I never had that experience. But I'm 56 and grew up in Montreal, where my francophone schools had large numbers of anglophones and allophones.

[nereo]

One thing not discussed (or perhaps I missed it) is how differently children are treated who come from anglophone families, even if they themselves grow up going to french schools and are completely bilingual as toddlers. That was a really hard realization for us, and it isn’t obvious at first.

Do you think this is particular to Quebec City, or a recent phenomenon? I'm one of those kids, and I never had that experience. But I'm 56 and grew up in Montreal, where my francophone schools had large numbers of anglophones and allophones.

IME there is a world of difference between Montreal and Quebec City with regards to how children from anglophone parents are viewed. Everyone I’ve known with a child growing up in/around Montreal says it’s no big deal and no noticeable difference based on their language spoken at home.

Every parent and kids I’ve known who grew up in Quebec City and had at least one parent at home who’s “mother tongue” was english talks extensively about how uncomfortable it could be from time to time being labeled “the anglophone kid” - regardless of their fluency.

[LetsRetireYoung]

Oh, good thread.  Posting to follow...as a leanFIRE, child-free, car-free Canuck expat who might be repatriating next year, Quebec City may be a good option for my circumstances and preferences.  All I know is I'm not moving back to the West Coast, lol;  I still have to decide where else in Canada I might want to hang my hat.  For the first while, anyway...Quebec City's cost of living would be really nice from the point of view of keeping expenses low for the first few years of FIRE, when sequence of returns risk is more critical.  And it ticks a lot of other boxes for me too.

@LetsRetireYoung, we should meet up if I find myself out there (assuming you are still there)!

Yassss, a new recruit to my FIRE army in QC! ;)

And yup, I'm still here - I hope to make this my home base for the next few decades, though I also plan on becoming a snowbird in late 2023, to spend the 6 cold months each year someplace cheap and tropical. :)

Do hit me up when you move here!

[AMandM]

IME there is a world of difference between Montreal and Quebec City with regards to how children from anglophone parents are viewed.

That's really, really interesting. I wonder if the rest of the province is like Quebec City, and Montreal is just the exception because of its high rate of bilingualism.

[Lews Therin]

IME there is a world of difference between Montreal and Quebec City with regards to how children from anglophone parents are viewed.

That's really, really interesting. I wonder if the rest of the province is like Quebec City, and Montreal is just the exception because of its high rate of bilingualism.

There's a few english towns, but in general for most places, think of any redneck american football town in movies, and it's the same thing, expect speaking french.

[MMMarbleheader]

IME there is a world of difference between Montreal and Quebec City with regards to how children from anglophone parents are viewed.

That's really, really interesting. I wonder if the rest of the province is like Quebec City, and Montreal is just the exception because of its high rate of bilingualism.

There's a few english towns, but in general for most places, think of any redneck american football town in movies, and it's the same thing, expect speaking french.

Haha funny you mention that

Fun fact: most of the structural steel for buildings in New England is fabricated in Quebec, with most of the plants being up and around Quebec City. I used to go up there a lot for inspections. The manager is what you would expect a québécois to look/act but the guys fabricating the steel look like you picked them out of a rural Texas town, except they spoke French. Total bias on my part but it still blew me away haha.

[pasadenafr]

Du genre, "pourriez-vous me passer cette lettre ecrite dans laquelle se trouvent les instructions détaillées?"

All this talk about formal written French made me smile. As a native French-speaker (from France, not Canada), I would very curious to see an example of what they expect. Written "Canadian French" seems to be very close, if not identical to "French French", whereas the spoken versions are very different. It made me smile because I guess I never really understood how the French grammar is so hard to learn until I moved to the US and got to know native English speakers - and read posts like this one. This particular sentence above made me laugh. Yeah, I see what you mean lol.

The gender thing is indeed pretty random, and we DO have a shit ton of silent letters. I never realized that before. I suppose gender in Spanish is kinda easier, because it's usually based on -o and -a instead of the French (sometimes) silent -e. Oh, and the accents!

Somehow, to me, English as a second language is a lot easier in written form than spoken form.

Anyway, I'd love to see some examples of those tests. Seems a little weird that such a test would entirely disqualify someone from ever practicing in the province.

Montreal and QC have been on my todo list forever. This post made me want to visit even more.

[ysette9]

Du genre, "pourriez-vous me passer cette lettre ecrite dans laquelle se trouvent les instructions détaillées?"

All this talk about formal written French made me smile. As a native French-speaker (from France, not Canada), I would very curious to see an example of what they expect. Written "Canadian French" seems to be very close, if not identical to "French French", whereas the spoken versions are very different. It made me smile because I guess I never really understood how the French grammar is so hard to learn until I moved to the US and got to know native English speakers - and read posts like this one. This particular sentence above made me laugh. Yeah, I see what you mean lol.

The gender thing is indeed pretty random, and we DO have a shit ton of silent letters. I never realized that before. I suppose gender in Spanish is kinda easier, because it's usually based on -o and -a instead of the French (sometimes) silent -e. Oh, and the accents!

Somehow, to me, English as a second language is a lot easier in written form than spoken form.

Anyway, I'd love to see some examples of those tests. Seems a little weird that such a test would entirely disqualify someone from ever practicing in the province.

Montreal and QC have been on my todo list forever. This post made me want to visit even more.

I’m curious to see also. I personally don’t find French grammar all that difficult, though certainly more complex than English. It is just a series of rules to learn and apply. At least it doesn’t have six cases with declinations like Russian.

[LetsRetireYoung]

I’m curious to see also. I personally don’t find French grammar all that difficult, though certainly more complex than English. It is just a series of rules to learn and apply. At least it doesn’t have six cases with declinations like Russian.

LOL! As someone who speaks fluent Russian and English (and very broken German, Spanish, Japanese, and French), I resemble that remark! :P

Russian grammar is bananas, yes, but the pronunciation is quite straightforward. It's remarkably like Spanish in terms of grammar and pronunciation, actually: what you see is what you get. So far, my biggest obstacle when learning French is the crazy pronunciation. At times, it becomes more like music appreciation. :) ...or maybe that's because the apps I use are all for French French, not Quebec French. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ysette9]

I’m curious to see also. I personally don’t find French grammar all that difficult, though certainly more complex than English. It is just a series of rules to learn and apply. At least it doesn’t have six cases with declinations like Russian.

LOL! As someone who speaks fluent Russian and English (and very broken German, Spanish, Japanese, and French), I resemble that remark! :P

Russian grammar is bananas, yes, but the pronunciation is quite straightforward. It's remarkably like Spanish in terms of grammar and pronunciation, actually: what you see is what you get. So far, my biggest obstacle when learning French is the crazy pronunciation. At times, it becomes more like music appreciation. :) ...or maybe that's because the apps I use are all for French French, not Quebec French. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Though with French the pronunciation also follows set rules that are pretty straight forward to learn. They are just unexpected for someone used to Russian, for example. :)

[LetsRetireYoung]

I’m curious to see also. I personally don’t find French grammar all that difficult, though certainly more complex than English. It is just a series of rules to learn and apply. At least it doesn’t have six cases with declinations like Russian.

LOL! As someone who speaks fluent Russian and English (and very broken German, Spanish, Japanese, and French), I resemble that remark! :P

Russian grammar is bananas, yes, but the pronunciation is quite straightforward. It's remarkably like Spanish in terms of grammar and pronunciation, actually: what you see is what you get. So far, my biggest obstacle when learning French is the crazy pronunciation. At times, it becomes more like music appreciation. :) ...or maybe that's because the apps I use are all for French French, not Quebec French. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Though with French the pronunciation also follows set rules that are pretty straight forward to learn. They are just unexpected for someone used to Russian, for example. :)

Just as unexpected for Russians that are fluent in English. :P

[Metalcat]

Du genre, "pourriez-vous me passer cette lettre ecrite dans laquelle se trouvent les instructions détaillées?"

All this talk about formal written French made me smile. As a native French-speaker (from France, not Canada), I would very curious to see an example of what they expect. Written "Canadian French" seems to be very close, if not identical to "French French", whereas the spoken versions are very different. It made me smile because I guess I never really understood how the French grammar is so hard to learn until I moved to the US and got to know native English speakers - and read posts like this one. This particular sentence above made me laugh. Yeah, I see what you mean lol.

The gender thing is indeed pretty random, and we DO have a shit ton of silent letters. I never realized that before. I suppose gender in Spanish is kinda easier, because it's usually based on -o and -a instead of the French (sometimes) silent -e. Oh, and the accents!

Somehow, to me, English as a second language is a lot easier in written form than spoken form.

Anyway, I'd love to see some examples of those tests. Seems a little weird that such a test would entirely disqualify someone from ever practicing in the province.

Montreal and QC have been on my todo list forever. This post made me want to visit even more.

The test is just writing a letter. It has very specific rules about length, types of verb conjugations, and structure, but you don't get to know what those rules are.

THAT is classic QC bullshit.