Progress and "Lessons Learned" on Pending FIRE

[dude]

I would agree that age matters - it doesn't always, but being younger does often mean a later career start. My husband is 3 years younger than I am. I plan to leave the work force in ~10years at the age of 45, but he will continue working for at least 4 more years maybe longer. First because he still isn't convinced there will be enough money for the amount of travel he wants to do, but mainly because he works for the government and it would be silly to leave 4 years before he becomes eligible for his pension (barring of course any future changes). He started working later than I did, so he isn't eligible for future benefits at the same time I am.

My wife and I are in the opposite position -- I have 5 years to go until I'm pension eligible, and I'm the older one.  She mostly enjoys her job and doesn't have any reservations about working longer.  But from her initial reaction to my floating the idea of retiring at 55, I suspect she's concerned about what I will be doing with my free time, and I think she has it in her mind that I will be taking off for days or weeks at a time to pursue my recreational passions.  To be fair, it's not an entirely unfounded fear on her part!  I would love to take off for days at a time to do the things I love (she doesn't share many of the interests that I'd be pursuing), but I realize that's not feasible or a responsible way to treat our relationship.  So I intend to find a middle ground, hopefully making a small living locally doing what I love to do.  She's slowly warming to the idea, but I realize I have to approach it with a great deal of tact and with assurances that I'm not planning to just disappear while she continues working.

[dude]

That said, I don't really think whether one party had things handed to them or not ought to really matter.  In that if she had it handed to her and reversed the scenario so she saved (rather than spending) the benefit, I wouldn't say that she ought to retire sooner, or you in this case.  The earning a lot more, as I said, I particularly disagree with.  Maybe it's bc my husband and I have flipped at times who that is.  But more I think it's because money shouldn't be held as a lever in a marriage, whether it's "well I make more than you so I decide that we buy X car or fancy toy" or it's "well I make more than you so I get to retire when I want."  It also discounts non-monetary contributions to the relationship. 

All this of course is my opinion on how to do things.  As long as the parties in the relationship are happy and agree, then these ideas don't matter.

I get where you're coming from CommonCents, but from my vantage point, I worked a lot harder and sacrificed a whole lot more to get within arm's reach of FIRE, despite my wife's spendy habits and total lack of financial common sense, so I deserve to reap the benefits of early retirement.  Particularly where, like DoubleDown, I can replace my working life income (or at least a significant percentage of it) in retirement, AND she will be able to retire early at around the same age I did.

[DoubleDown]

Wow, thank you all so much for the very kind thoughts! You guys are awesome.

I wish everyone who's still working toward FIRE was joining me right now. I have to say, so far it's been everything I hoped. MMM's and others' descriptions have been accurate, and they were right that it's great. I've enjoyed being able to go grocery shopping when it's not crowded, and generally do whatever the hell I please. It still hasn't quite sunk in though -- I still have that lingering feeling like I have deadlines at work, a meeting to go to, or that I should be somewhere doing something specific. But I'm sure that will pass soon enough.

Although I haven't done any radical, exciting things so far like a backpacking trip through the Appalachians, I love ER so far. And honestly no radical things have been even planned, as I have young kids at home. Lord willing, there should be plenty of opportunities like that soon enough, and I'm sure we'll do some cool things this summer when the kids are off school.

OP, congrats!  Did you work things out with your wife?

Yes, we essentially reached a common understanding. I'd say she still is not favorable towards my retiring, but she has accepted it. For her part, she's willing to see how things go and hopefully over time her fears of us running out of money, or me becoming a lazy bum that is the subject of all kinds of gossip, will subside. I've been taking care of some chores around the house and having some dinners ready, so that's helped.

[CommonCents]

OP, congrats!  Did you work things out with your wife?

Yes, we essentially reached a common understanding. I'd say she still is not favorable towards my retiring, but she has accepted it. For her part, she's willing to see how things go and hopefully over time her fears of us running out of money, or me becoming a lazy bum that is the subject of all kinds of gossip, will subside. I've been taking care of some chores around the house and having some dinners ready, so that's helped.

That's great.  I think agreeing to take it one step at a time can be helpful - it's much easier for her to agree to that and see how things go, whether better than expected (chores!  dinner!  time with kids!) or worse, than to feel you've locked in a major life decision and can't go back if it's not working - whether because you hate retirement or because your house fell into a sinkhole uninsured and you need more money.

[Zette]

So you took the leap and retired...how's it going?  Is your wife still worried about what to say that you do? Is she more tempted to consider ER herself?  What did you end up working out about the housework? 

[frompa]

Yes, DoubleDown, it's been more than a few months since you retired.  Can you bring us up to date on how it's been? Any particularly difficult or spectacularly enjoyable adjustments, for you or your family? 

[DoubleDown]

So you took the leap and retired...how's it going?  Is your wife still worried about what to say that you do? Is she more tempted to consider ER herself?  What did you end up working out about the housework?

Yes, DoubleDown, it's been more than a few months since you retired.  Can you bring us up to date on how it's been? Any particularly difficult or spectacularly enjoyable adjustments, for you or your family? 

First of all, thanks for asking! FIRE has been awesome, I seriously cannot think of a single downside so far. The only part that still gnaws at me is the large paychecks no longer coming in. It's definitely weird going from a 20-year mindset of saving to one of spending with no more accumulation. Thankfully there have been no market crashes or black swan events since I FIRE'd; the markets have been very boring overall, which is okay with me.

I'd say my wife's overall attitude has not changed much. I've picked up more of the housework and some cooking, haven't heard too many complaints on that front (other than I'm not much of a gourmet cook and have no interest in becoming one).

My wife just is, by her nature, extremely skeptical in life. If she won the lottery or some other amazing windfall, she'd immediately be waiting for calamity or the (unknown) "strings attached" to destroy everything. It's really almost impossible for her to accept something good as just that -- she'll always think that life is playing a cruel joke on her and setting her up for a bigger fall right around the corner. I'd say that mindset is pretty antithetical to FIRE, since we have to take a fairly large leap of faith into this unorthodox approach of quitting work so early and putting faith in our stash lasting 50+ years. So, I'd say it's unlikely she will ever accept this decision or lifestyle as anything she'd seek out on her own.

She's also a heavy on-the-go person, always wants to be doing something active. She just can't fathom having any large stretch of unstructured time, so she's still in the mindset of wondering what I could possibly do with all this free time. This does still give her angst in telling people what I "do." I suggested she tell them I'm writing a book (true), but even this seemed weird to her because I'm not Stephen King.

I asked her, isn't writing a book "enough" of a thing? I mean there are lots of writers, people don't generally look down on them. She said, "Yeah, but they make lots of money at it." I said, does that mean I would be unsuccessful as a writer if I didn't make a lot of money, even though we don't need the money? She said yes. I said, "Then what does define success as a writer. Do I have to make the NY Times Top 20 Bestsellers List to qualify as successful? She said "Yes." I said, "And anything less than the Top 20 is unsuccessful?" Again the answer was "Yes."

Tough crowd.

[Eric]

I asked her, isn't writing a book "enough" of a thing? I mean there are lots of writers, people don't generally look down on them. She said, "Yeah, but they make lots of money at it." I said, does that mean I would be unsuccessful as a writer if I didn't make a lot of money, even though we don't need the money? She said yes. I said, "Then what does define success as a writer. Do I have to make the NY Times Top 20 Bestsellers List to qualify as successful? She said "Yes." I said, "And anything less than the Top 20 is unsuccessful?" Again the answer was "Yes."

Tough crowd.

Damn.  This reminds me of the Mexican fisherman parable.  It makes me want to ask "and then what?" over and over.

Glad to hear you're enjoying your retirement, despite your lack of "success". 

[DoubleDown]

I asked her, isn't writing a book "enough" of a thing? I mean there are lots of writers, people don't generally look down on them. She said, "Yeah, but they make lots of money at it." I said, does that mean I would be unsuccessful as a writer if I didn't make a lot of money, even though we don't need the money? She said yes. I said, "Then what does define success as a writer. Do I have to make the NY Times Top 20 Bestsellers List to qualify as successful? She said "Yes." I said, "And anything less than the Top 20 is unsuccessful?" Again the answer was "Yes."

Tough crowd.

Damn.  This reminds me of the Mexican fisherman parable.  It makes me want to ask "and then what?" over and over.

Glad to hear you're enjoying your retirement, despite your lack of "success". 

Ha, thanks. And that is a great comparison to the Mexican fisherman. I've tried understanding my wife's views on this (the definition of "success") and similar quandaries, but mostly without success. But then, she is a woman, and I'm a Spock-like robot.

[frompa]

Ha ha, definitely a tough crowd.  At least you don't let her negativity and high demands for your legitimacy slow you down too much.  Good for you for taking on the book writing.  Fiction or non? (Writing will be my primary activity when I'm ready to RE.)   Do you have the support of a local writing group or some such?  That can be a big help, as however "Spock-like" you are, writing can be a fairly isolating as well as demanding process.  I'm really happy that you've found your ER such an overwhelmingly positive development... your experience gives me confidence that we can know ourselves well enough to make the best moves for ourselves, even when what's positive for us is seemingly unsupported by the culture at large.  If you feel at all better knowing that at least one person is immensely jealous of your situation, you should feel great because I am! Thanks for the update. 

[J Boogie]

Not to get too psychological here, but I think I have an idea of why your wife is feeling this way.

The whole "what can I tell other members of society you do" is part of a much larger philosophical question.  When you stop working, its almost like you stop participating in society, economically speaking.  Your role in society has fundamentally changed.  You no longer spend your days serving some members of society to everyones' mutual benefit.  Not to mention the fact that you made a nice income - that signals that you are man among men, a very talented individual of great worth to society.

And, since you're clearly a very capable person, you're capable of doing something that is VERY appreciated by other members in your community.  Volunteering might leave something to be desired if you weren't able to use your talent - who knows if you'll be as "successful" with writing as you were in your career - but your wife still wants to see you as the great man she married, and my opinion is that all women to a certain degree are influenced by society in how they value men.  That's why GQ always shows men in suits - you think any actors/athletes ever need to wear suits?? They can wear sweatpants all day if they want.  GQ dresses them up in suits because people tend to think of a man in a suit as important and valuable, and consequently more desirable to the opposite sex.

By all means you should explore your interests.  Hopefully you end up super talented in one of them!

It's funny, Napoleon Dynamite was right on when he said that women are looking for a guy with skills.

Enjoy your journey and thanks for the inspiration.

[MsSindy]

.........

I asked her, isn't writing a book "enough" of a thing? I mean there are lots of writers, people don't generally look down on them. She said, "Yeah, but they make lots of money at it." I said, does that mean I would be unsuccessful as a writer if I didn't make a lot of money, even though we don't need the money? She said yes. I said, "Then what does define success as a writer. Do I have to make the NY Times Top 20 Bestsellers List to qualify as successful? She said "Yes." I said, "And anything less than the Top 20 is unsuccessful?" Again the answer was "Yes."

Tough crowd.

Damn!  Tough crowd indeed.  Somehow though, I think you'll manage through it just fine!

[pdxbator]

This is a great thread. I'm 41, and could easily FIRE right now and not have to work thanks to recent inheritance. One of my biggest stumbling blocks is how my parents would react. I work in the medical field so I couldn't say I was just working from home. I guess I need to get more comfortable with the fact that I'll just have to own up to it and tell people my plans for an early retirement.

[RyanAtTanagra]

This is a great thread. I'm 41, and could easily FIRE right now and not have to work thanks to recent inheritance. One of my biggest stumbling blocks is how my parents would react. I work in the medical field so I couldn't say I was just working from home. I guess I need to get more comfortable with the fact that I'll just have to own up to it and tell people my plans for an early retirement.

Just say you got burnt out (not too much of a stretch in the medical field I'm sure), and are taking a break living off savings until you have to go back.  Eventually they'll start asking 'isn't it time to go back to work?' and you can keep stringing them along 'yea I will probably have to soon but right now I'm having too much fun doing X and Y'.