Poor little rich kids - really (longish rant)

[Napoleon]

Hey it's really tough on those of us whose parents didn't divorce, or didn't helicopter parent us and who went to school and did well - we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Blame for what?

Everything !

This is actually kind of true. My parents are nice middle class people who think they care about their children and want the best for them. And I still ended up in hospital after downing a load of meds. It would be so nice if I could point to something specific, like my father hitting me or my mother being an alcoholic, or even my parents yelling at me all the time, to explain why I am the way I am. Instead all I have is a vague sense that I am unloved and that they are disappointed in me. I can deal with it now and take responsibility for what I am doing now (mid twenties) but I sure as hell would have felt better when I was eighteen if there was something actually WRONG with my family that I could blame. Instead I feel like it's my fault my parents didn't love me like I wanted.

[elaine amj]

A co-worker was complaining about how her 17 year old step-daughter has no ambition.  To which I replied (not to her face because I value my life, but other co-workers):"Ambition is overrated. How about we start with a baseline of being a decent human being, and work our way up from there?"

OMG, this is a fucking lightbulb moment for me. Thank you for this, tthree. My DSS has no ambition, no organization skills and is exceedingly shy. His mom died a couple of years ago and his dad got married again (to me) fairly quickly. The poor kid seems totally lost.  He's 23, still in junior college, but only part-time. He lives with us and his grandmother, who has Alzheimer's. He seems to have no friends, has never dated or even held a job. I worry about him a TON. Since he is, in fact, a decent human being, I think I'll just use this new benchmark as a fresh starting point with him. Thanks for this insight.

This resonates a lot with me. My brother is not someone with a whole lot of ambition. He made it through high school with Cs and Ds and flunked a college prep course. He did end up buckling down more after that and made it through university with Bs and some As. Since then, he's been slow climbing the ladder and at 37 is in middle management barely scraping by financially with a stay at home wife and a new baby.

BUT - he's an awesome person with a heart of gold. Other than lacking ambition, he was always a "good kid", overall behaving himself and not getting into any kind of major shenanigans. All his life he has struggled with massive insecurities because of the pressure and expectations my mom has put on him. One time, she just about broke my heart when she told me that it was hard for her to show she was proud of him because he was a continual mess-up who never did anything for her to be proud of! And she wonders why my brother sets such firm boundaries with her. I've been hammering away at her because she is always putting my poor brother down (and I am the golden child who doesn't put a foot wrong *sigh*). I did ask her if she wanted either of her two nephews instead...who bankrupted their mothers with massive gambling debts. I think she got the point :) Don't get me wrong - my mother is an amazing person, who has unfortunately had very wrong ideas on how best to parent my brother.

It is good for us as parents to examine our expectations and desires for our kids. Two nights ago, I had a heart to heart conversation with my DH. My 13 yr old son told me that he thought we would be better off without him because he was "always getting into trouble". In talking with my DH, I asked him what our son would have to be for him to be "a success". DH confessed that he ultimately wanted financial success - because it would give our son security. School success is the stepping stone for this so it was super important for him to get good grades. I asked him what he would think of our boy if he failed in school? What about the workplace? What then? Does that mean he has failed as a person too?

It turned out to be a really good conversation examining the pressures we place on our children. I don't want DH to make the mistakes my mother did with my brother. I know DH is just trying to be a good father. For me, success in school and work are awesome, and something to be strived towards - but ranks far behind being a decent human being. I am concerned about teaching my son to be considerate of others, to be generous, caring and loving. I would be a successful mom if my son takes notice of the kid standing in a corner feeling left out and invites him to join the fun. I would be a successful mom if my son loves his future wife and kids and shows it. If he keeps us involved with his life and wants to spend time with us in our old age. These are the type of things that matter to me.

[irishbear99]

Even under the best of circumstances, an 18 year old is an adult only in the legal sense, but not in any other way that matters. There's not some magic switch that turns on at the 18th birthday that suddenly imbues a person with good reasoning, judgment, or the ability to divine and understand the second- and third-order effects of one's decision making (aka, the prediction and understanding of consequences). Hell, the human brain isn't even fully developed until the early to mid 20s. It takes a lot of life experience - both good and bad - to get to a point where one is reasonably good at figuring out life. (Some people never make it to that point.)

Maybe that's what we (society) should be focusing on. Instead of formal education in a handful of subjects, broader education and life experiences (successes and failure) will lead to a greater understanding of life, and greater maturity at 18.

Not "instead" but "in addition to". And am actually getting the impression that parents tend to do that, when they have the resources and the necessary life experience themselves. You can't put that onus on schools, simply because it is much too specific and different for each person.

I also don't see the problem with 18 being the marker where someone counts as an adult, some kids are more adult at 14 than others are at 28. Unless you want to give out tests and licenses for "life" you'll always end up with an arbitrary marker where some are more ready than others. Hey one of the most freeing realizations as a young adult was that nobody really knows what they are doing, most people just act in the way as if they did and "wing it" - no matter whether they are mediocre or extremely successful at life/career/hobby/this or that niche. Yes, you do get more out of life when you have it all figured out for yourself, but that's way, way waaaay past becoming adult.

Actually I like the analogy to a license - even in countries where drivers license cost a lot of money, have very strict curriculum and lot of theory and practice - once you get the license it's only your permission to take part in traffic and keep learning on your own. It takes many, many years of experience to become very sufficient. A drivers license is not a certificate that you are a professional driver that knows how to handle every situation, will always make the right calls and act for the greater good of humanity. Same with life. 18 gives you permission to participate fully in adult life, make experiences on your own and keep learning - it doesn't mean you are a master human at the highest zen levels that will not make mistakes and have everything all figured out.

I wasn't taking issue with 18 being designated as the legal marker for adulthood. Of course it has to be designated somewhere, and 18 seems as good as any other choice. The point I was trying to make was in response to those who think that 18-year-olds who make bad decisions (whether it be signing for a metric crap ton of student loans, or choosing to major in the ever-maligned upside down underwater basketweaving, or whatever) deserve no empathy because, hey, they're adults. I was trying to make the point that, while they need to face the consequences of their choices, that doesn't mean we should divest ourselves of empathy for them.

[tthree]

For me, success in school and work are awesome, and something to be strived towards - but ranks far behind being a decent human being. I am concerned about teaching my son to be considerate of others, to be generous, caring and loving. I would be a successful mom if my son takes notice of the kid standing in a corner feeling left out and invites him to join the fun. I would be a successful mom if my son loves his future wife and kids and shows it. If he keeps us involved with his life and wants to spend time with us in our old age. These are the type of things that matter to me.

Original "decent human being" commenter here.  You pretty much nailed the intention!

Adopting a MMM lifestyle, also means it is easier to be financial stable with less.  If you are able to help your kids be decent humans AND want for less stuff, I feel they are on the path for "success".

[Landlord2015]

I did start the entreprenur evening course today in Finland(Europe).

I am not sure IF I will become ever an entreprenur due to great risk and loosing many social good benefits if becoming entreprenur.

That said I really like the teacher and I got one new acctuintance a person that is MILLIONAIRE for sure I know that since we interviewed each other and I interviewed the richest in the class.

Millionaires are rare in Finland due to socialistic(though slightly more capitalistic then Sweden) high tax system.

It is a contrast. As a FRUGAL landlord I don't own any car despite me having a driving license. Please keep in mind that fuel is more expensive in Finland then say in USA and that public transport is cheaper then car.

The millionaire offered that since I don't have any car and we both come from same town that he will be my driver. I said yes!

As for what kind of entreprenur firm my new millionaire aquintance will start I refuse to tell that. I also refuse to tell his real name since we have agreed that we shall not tell our business plans outside of the course group.

[Landlord2015]

Oh one more thing in that evening entreprenur course that is held twice/week are only 10 persons selected. While I can not beat the crystal clear millionaire in wealth that is the richest in the class I am certainly not among the poorest in the entreprenur course!

Another person teased me said you can take an entreprenur loan and boldly start an expensive firm. I teased back saying I can sell some realestate and start an expensive firm without any loan, but I don't want to sell a milking cow(i.e rental income).

I love this entreprenur evening course and it is for Finnish capitalists and not for socialists:).

[Landlord2015]

The millionaire that is my driver use some kind of very good car a Japanese Subaru 4 wheel drive and very big. It can accelerate very fast.

No it is not as fast as an ELITE Ferrari. That said more affordable a new his kind of Subaru would cost 40 000 euro in my country but Finland has high tax for new cars. In USA a Ferrari that is new costs hundreds of thousands dollars up to maximum of about 400 000$.

This is biggest reason I don't own a car. I don't want or need some average car. I have a valid driving license. However since I don't want to pay for a dream car unless I am millionarie then I don't buy a car.

[Landlord2015]

Well ok now I have a hard situation.

Well I had to get FAST a saving Angel that would rent.

Stupid of me I met a beuatiful female gypsy. She was dressed completely normally i.e not in any special gypsy clothes. She behaved well and told me that in addition to governement 2 month rent deposit(which only covers repairs) she would pay me 1 month rent deposit(and this can cover unpaid rent also).

I was stressed because previous rental had paid a fee to preamture break a fixed term contract and this happened during Eastern holiday.

I asked for high rent(overprice more or less thought reasonable overprice so not extraordinary) and she agreed. There were no other renter applicants on such a short notice I wanted immediately a new renter.

I told myself to not prejudice gypsies. Foolish!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Romani_people#Gypsy_and_Gipsy

Seems some things never change. Never ever trust a gypsy.
It has been a ride... first of all house company got so many complaints that towards end of year they sent me a warning that unless I make the renter behave better they might take control of my apartment. Taking control is horrible it means you can not get any rental income for up to maximum 2 years.

Well that is actually used in Finland as a warning to landlords to act. I did. I met with the renter and gave her written warning which she and her husband signed(he had moved in later). It basically said the disturbance must stop or we must break the contract i.e a formal legal warning.

I told what I had done to housecompany and they seemed pleased with my actions and told me good work she can live there until end of contract(fixed term contract 1 year) if she behaves ok.

In November I noticed that she paid all of November rent but that the government support for October was lacking and I had only got about rougly 65% of the October rent.

I called the renter and she told me that she should take "care of it".

Right all indication and evidence now shows that she has left the apartment and not tend to pay December rent January, Februrary, and Mars is the last if remember correctly.

The only option seems to me is to send her one final invoice in written and when that is not paid file a lawsuit so government will force her family to move out premateruly.

All evidence shows she has gone underground maybe moved to Sweden(I know she has lived in Sweden before also).

On Monday I will contract Suomen Vuokranantajat I am member of their landlord organisation and they will for free give me legal advice.

My option seems to file law suit and the Finland government after a long delay will send the police and other goverment officials to her apartment estimated time in february 2016. They will then forcefully if necessary throw out any residents and regarding their possible furniture it will likely be take to some government building.

The thing is since gypsies are unemployed(at least when it comes to legal income) I will not get one euro paid for December, January and February.

That is a hard setback.

My second worst renter is a renter from Irak he is insane in the membrain crazy as hell but at least he has paid the rent but I will not make a new fixed term contract with him.

My golden egg i.e ELITE renter is a Finn he seems eager to even pay more we discuss it right now if he can live together with his girlfriend. The golden egg renter rents my newest apartment which is in excellent conditon and it is built year 2014.


MOD NOTE: Please do not post broad, negative comments about a particular racial or ethnic group.

[arebelspy]

Mod Note: That has nothing to do with this thread, LL2015.  Please stay on topic, and start your own threads or journal for your stories/questions.  And please do not double post.  Thanks!

[Landlord2015]

Mod Note: That has nothing to do with this thread, LL2015.  Please stay on topic, and start your own threads or journal for your stories/questions.  And please do not double post.  Thanks!

Ok I thought since I was in this thread I could tell my personal experience. My father was a doctor I am not saying it is rich inheritance and I have brother and sister also but it fairly wealthy background.

If you want a make a personl new thread where would be the right place be for that? I mean in General forums or some other thread?

Perhaps not right now but later will do such a thread. I am less motivated now with this setback to start right now such a thread.

[SachaFiscal]

My parents immigrated to the US from a developing country before I was born.  My father cam here to get a PhD in a science and engineering field.  He and my mom grew up with very little and he had to work very hard in a very competitive environment for his achievements. Plus being a brown man in a Midwest town in the 70s he had to work even harder to overcome racism and bias. So he definitely set high expectations for his children, out of love and desire for them to have a prosperous life without the hardship of poverty.  He didn't help me with my homework but expected me to figure things out on my home. He was disappointed with Bs but rewarded As. He told me to save at least half of what I earn. He let me draw. And play music as a hobby but encouraged science and math more as they were more lucrative skills. I sometimes complained at how hard he pushed us and how I couldn't pursue my musical aspirations but now when I take a look at my software engineer salary and my large growing stache I am so utterly grateful for his encouragement. If it weren't for him I doubt early retirement would be on the short horizon for me today. As a brown woman in this country in a STEM field you have to work hard, harder to get the same opportunities. So I'm glad he taught me to be an over achiever.

[Bracken_Joy]

Mod Note: That has nothing to do with this thread, LL2015.  Please stay on topic, and start your own threads or journal for your stories/questions.  And please do not double post.  Thanks!

Ok I thought since I was in this thread I could tell my personal experience. My father was a doctor I am not saying it is rich inheritance and I have brother and sister also but it fairly wealthy background.

If you want a make a personl new thread where would be the right place be for that? I mean in General forums or some other thread?

Perhaps not right now but later will do such a thread. I am less motivated now with this setback to start right now such a thread.

Journals. http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/

[cloudsail]

When I was a kid and we drove through roadwork areas, my parents would point to the people holding the Stop/Slow signs directing traffic and say, "If you don't work hard and do well in school, that's what you're going to end up doing when you grow up. A glorified traffic sign."

Ouch.

And my parents were actually pretty chill as far as Asian parents went. They never tried to force me to play the piano, get into med school, etc. But they were very clear on what they considered "unacceptable" careers.

To this day my husband believes that he won't surpass his father. Never mind that my FIL was a realtor whose nest egg is mostly the result of a couple of real estate booms that he actually didn't take advantage of (a primary residence isn't really a liquid asset). Also he is in his 60s. By my projections, even if my husband never got another raise, by the time he is 40 he will have far surpassed his parents' net worth. But it's impossible for my financially-illiterate husband to understand this.

There's even a danger in looking up to your parents.