The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: Eric on January 09, 2014, 04:52:22 PM
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In reading through a few threads about challenges to get spending under control, a common theme seems to be an unwillingness of your partner to accept any change. But I'm wondering if it's a common theme, or if it's more of the squeaky wheel syndrome. For example, my wife was fully on board with the changes I wanted to implement, and it took very little convincing for her to see the benefits. But I'm not going to start a thread about that.
So let's hear it. Is your partner holding you back or even propping you up? And how much? Was it a quick conversion or a slow drawn out process? How long did it take? Is it ongoing or do you both feel your spending is (mostly) optimized?
Edit -- grammar
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Interesting thread. My fiancee is more frugal than myself in some areas, and less in others. We balance each other pretty well.
She's more apt to buy in bulk, use coupons and her employee discount, (she's a Pharmacist at one of the major chain pharmacies) whereas I don't have the patience for a lot of that. She also despises food waste, will squeeze the toothpaste tube until its 100% flat, things like that.
I'm better at investing, tracking net worth, preparing for the future etc. she'll happily build a big balance in a savings account, whereas that makes me uneasy knowing how inefficient it all is. (It took a lot of convincing to have her max out her 401k two years ago, finally got her to open an IRA and start automatically maxing it this year)
She's also on board with retiring early, since retail pharmacy is one of those jobs where the pay is great (started making 120k straight of college at 24) the hours are 'great' (sometimes annoying shift work and weekends, but NEVER more than 40 hours total), but the job itself is kind of soul sucking and you gotta deal with a lot of sick, cranky, medication-dependent people day in and day out.
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My husband is super frugal, bikes to work, eats a bagged lunch, loves cheap and easy hiking and camping and living with him is a mustachian pleasure.
But (there's always a but), he has no interest in money, budgeting, setting up our retirement accounts, etc. He is blissfully unaware of what we make, what we save, what we spend which leaves it me to sort out.
Mostly, I am pretty good at the money side, but I do run into stumbling blocks and need an ear to bend which is why I love these forums.
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Mine came with a great analytical mind and a rather sophisticated BS detector. Very little molding was necessary, just had to point out alternative solutions when problems arose.
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Mine is very much on board, but avoids the term 'mustachian.' We cook all of our own food, rarely go out to bars, and we cut the cable years ago. Having a partner who is on board is essential.
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Mine is very much on board, but avoids the term 'mustachian.' We cook all of our own food, rarely go out to bars, and we cut the cable years ago. Having a partner who is on board is essential.
It certainly helps, doesn't it? I think I'm pretty much in the same boat. She has a few spendy habits (like fancy haircuts) as do I (microbrews), but for the most part, once the reduction of expenses and optimization of the rest began, she was fully on board with it. I think the idea of retiring so early is very alluring to both of us, so it was a relatively easy and painless transition from our previous slightly frugal selves to our new completely badass selves. She also isn't a huge fan of the term "mustachian", but loves "badassity", which is cool by me.
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He was more frugal when we met. Now we're probably equally frugal, but he's still interested in some of the trappings of consumerism which I've rejected - for example, a big fancy house, or having two cars. Those are things that I'm willing to sacrifice for FIRE but he's not. On the other hand, he's so frugal and a good earner that I think he makes more than a 50% contribution towards our FIRE plans.
Like anything else in a relationship, you learn and grow together. In the last six months he got rid of his car (we're now a one car couple) and has started talking about getting out of his exorbitant mobile phone plan and possibly even canning the landline. I'm making progress too. As long as we keep talking about it and making compromises, I don't foresee any issues.
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... as do I (microbrews)
Beer should have it's own budgeting category!
She also isn't a huge fan of the term "mustachian", but loves "badassity", which is cool by me.
Hilarious! I'll have to see if she likes this term better.
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Apparently not so much with the extremes.
With almost 50 votes, I was the first for:
YES!!, my partner is more on board with the Mustachian lifestyle than I am
And there are 0 for the other extreme:
No, s/he is the antithesis of Mustachianism
and only 1 vote a level above that:
Not really, and s/he doesn't understand why it's worth the effort
Seems like there's a lot of moderate people out there - somewhat frugal, but not completely so.
:)
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Okay. I am the outlier in this survey. My DH is definitely NOT a Mustachian. When I pointed this out to him he argued with me and said he had negotiated a $50 savings off his Porsche repair bill. :(
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I'm in with the outliers... my spouse is firmly, vocally anti-mustachian. He views anything related to frugality as deprivation, and has what seems to be an incurable addiction to Stuff and shopping.
/sigh
I choose to focus on myself.
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We're both fledgling mustachians, we still have a long way to go to badassity.
I thought Mustachianism might be a tough sell, but my husband initially surprised me by embracing the changes I suggested and really helping out. Now, after six months, he's beginning to drag his feet as I'm suggesting more changes (getting rid of our bedpan every-other-week cleaning service, making a monthly trip to a slightly less convenient but cheaper grocery store to stock up, obvious things like this). He even just linked me a video camera he wants to buy for our next trip (the trip is planned, the camera is out of left field), and talked about using our miles to upgrade our seats to business (rather than fly economy for close to nothing). So my flawless victory was perhaps not so flawless after all, now I have to figure out how to deal with this unexpected backlash.
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Mine came from a very low income family in Taiwan who grew up sticking it out together with family and having three families live in a small house and avoiding debt like the plague. Fast forward to when I met her, the house was paid off, and everyone enjoyed working and saving money. Then she met me and I also love to save money and to budget so we work out pretty well together. She's willing to let me do crazy things to save or make money, like biking to work every day and blowing insulation into our new house, or mining bitcoins back before they were cool (stopped mining when I moved to the states and sold them all but found I had a 1.2BTC surprise still sitting in my account when it peaked at $1225!) and I help her out with putting things in the right investment accounts. In Taiwan a big thing to do is get the universal life insurance where you pay big money up front, which almost all goes to the sales rep, and making monthly payments to have a measly amount left over when you pay it off. She still has a couple of those but they will be paid off soon and are worth maybe $10k.
She's not digging the no driving the car thing though, she hasn't gotten her license in the states yet and doesn't like the cold or rain too much and basically doesn't leave the house unless I take her somewhere. She's a good balance to my Mustachian drive, or else I might just sit here in the dark thinking about how much money I'm saving. She's also great with doing a lot of the cooking and willing to change our eating out habits. Since we got married we have always had a budget which I take care of and we've never had a my money your money fit, it's always been ours. Since finding this forum I've talked to her a lot about this and we've found out that we were basically half way there to full blood Mustachian, just starting on the investing side.
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My husband is super frugal, bikes to work, eats a bagged lunch, loves cheap and easy hiking and camping and living with him is a mustachian pleasure.
But (there's always a but), he has no interest in money, budgeting, setting up our retirement accounts, etc. He is blissfully unaware of what we make, what we save, what we spend which leaves it me to sort out.
Mostly, I am pretty good at the money side, but I do run into stumbling blocks and need an ear to bend which is why I love these forums.
That's pretty similar to us (minus the biking). He's a bit more spendy than I am, but he knows the value in being frugal as well. Oh, and he has no clue about investing stuff, so I handle all of that as well.
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Ongoing struggle, since my partner enjoys work and also enjoys the finer things in life. I think the compromise will result in us being semi-FI but not early retired. Not sure how I feel about that...
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I voted "YES, my partner is more on board than I am". He is frugal by nature, loves the simple outdoors, also loves home-brewing wine and beer (not always frugal but makes for great gifts and evenings with friends) and values his free time every minute.
He also always had the picture of working parttime (3 days per week) in mind after say 3 years of fulltime jobs.
However, he isn't interested in money at all, which leaves some nitty gritty to me, though he starts to be more involved. I make double his income which unfortunately also meant I justified some extra expenses last year when I wasn't aware how important FI was for both mine and my spouses happiness. I also very much love spending time abroad every year, but there are many ways to make that happen.
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I'm in the camp that struggles constantly with an anti-mustachian husband. Although he isn't a total spendthrift, he gets annoyed at any obvious attempt at frugality on my part. We argue on at least a weekly basis about little things like the setting of the thermostat, whether or not to clip a coupon, whether or not to eat out, etc. He says he works too hard to pinch pennies, but he does get a kick out of seeing our net worth grow.
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My husband barely spends money on anything, so he isn't really the problem. The only things he splurges on is his daily coffee and lunch. He goes through spurts of packing his lunch but always reverts after a few months. Again, I don't sweat it because he literally buys almost nothing else for himself.
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I said somewhat on board, because she is a mixed bag...she definitely does NOT have the shopping gene, only getting clothing when her stuff is really run down, drives a reliable, efficient, paid off car, and we haven't had cable since before we were married. She also loves seeing our monthly NW graph go up, and we (mostly) kicked a pretty nasty restaurant and bar habit we developed after graduating and getting real jobs. OTOH, she is a total wuss about the thermostat (during both winter and summer), says "I need a new phone" about once a month when her perfectly fine smartphone takes 5 whole seconds to load a webpage (although all I have to do is remind her how much it would cost and she gets over it), and we drive pretty far for long weekend type vacations pretty often.
Whenever I feel like we could be doing better I focus on the things we do well now and try to find new painless ways to improve.
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Voted "somewhat." She is slowly coming on board with the saving and investing part of it, but the frugality thing is foreign to her. She is a shopaholic -- though to her credit, she's gotten much, much better over the years (she was out of control for a long time). She got herself into serious credit card debt about 10 years ago ($25K), and got bailed out by her dad. She knows very well my strong feelings about cc debt, but recently I learned she had $800 on her cc. She didn't think it was such a big deal -- she can't really come to grips with the fact that it means she's spending more than she earns. I got pretty pissed and she got the point and paid it off (though it took her 3 paydays to do so). But she agreed to cut the alarm system, cut the landline, and look at other bills. She's on board with bagged lunches (I cook very nice meals for dinner, and the leftovers she brings to work often turns heads in her office ;-) ), and with regulating the thermostat. But she blanched when I told her I saw some damn fine khakis at the Goodwill Store for $5 -- hahaha! She also isn't fully on board with the early retirement thing, but I think that was just her initial reaction -- I think she doesn't get that because of my savings rate and pension, I can let go of that 6-figure salary and still cover my share of expenses. I think she's also starting to understand how much I hate my commute. Baby steps . . .
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Okay. I am the outlier in this survey. My DH is definitely NOT a Mustachian. When I pointed this out to him he argued with me and said he had negotiated a $50 savings off his Porsche repair bill. :(
Oh, I chuckled at this. I'm sorry! :)
I'm definitely the more mustachian. He's middle of the road, by which I means he gets WHY we should do it, but he is also an instant gratification kind of person. I've got my "I don't really need this" muscle big and strong. He doesn't.
It's especially frustrating because he makes A LOT more money than I do (finances are separate- we aren't married), and he could easily be socking away 50K a year if he just put more effort into it. He is getting much better, but it is going slower than I would like.
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Not yet, but s/he does understand why it's important and is making slow progress
Basically I made our new plan mandatory. I said I'm taking $500 out of each paycheck as soon as it is deposited and sending it to the credit card / whatever debt is next on the list. No ifs/ands/buts, consider it a tax. Now I just have to be more aware of letting her know how much money is in the checking account, because basically she pays no attention to that stuff.
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My wife is certainly not in it like I am, but is slowly making progress. She doesn't understand me biking to work 10 miles each way. She sees the value in cheaper, fuel efficient cars, but even that took a year. She finally gets to see some tangible results now that her student loans are paid off. But if she had her way she would buy clothes and go to home goods every week and not think twice about cable tv, cell phone contracts etc. We've made a compromise - extra income from coaching goes straight into her checking account. Both our paychecks go into the joint, and I also have a separate checking where I allot $100 for things like occasional lunches out or small splurge items. The money she makes from coaching allows her to feed her fashion blogging hobby (hoping that will make income down the road) as well as her expensive hair/makeup costs. Not all the way there, but we are getting there
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SWMBO is definitely into frugality but doesn't get the whole FIRE idea. Frugality isn't a means for FIRE to her, it is just what you do. So I guess she's on board from one perspective. She doesn't mind my pursuit of FIRE so that's a plus. :)
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Foot dragging. Lots of it.
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My husband is super frugal, bikes to work, eats a bagged lunch, loves cheap and easy hiking and camping and living with him is a mustachian pleasure.
But (there's always a but), he has no interest in money, budgeting, setting up our retirement accounts, etc. He is blissfully unaware of what we make, what we save, what we spend which leaves it me to sort out.
Mostly, I am pretty good at the money side, but I do run into stumbling blocks and need an ear to bend which is why I love these forums.
This is sooo much like me and DH, it's almost eerie. I think it's mainly because I grew up in a middle class two parent family, and DH grew up with a single mom who was sporadically employed. He will go months at a time where he barely spends anything, and then might treat everyone to work to lunch or decide he needs new camping gear, so it balances out. I consult with him on all our investments, but he's pretty hands off when it comes to all of the long-term planning. Our "budget" is really more of a spending plan where we plan to spend as little as we can. He does tell me about un-mustachian things that he's heard about (co-worker buying a brand new car, etc.) and tries to explain mustachian principles to people, if the discussion comes up. We were pretty mustachian before finding MMM, and I give DH a lot of credit for that (he was a big proponent of living near school/work, got a used bike, prefers outdoorsy free activities to costly entertainment options, etc.)
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I'm trying to embrace Mustachianism completely. My wife still has a way to go. When I first began talking about this her stance was that it basically sounded like I'd been taken in by some "get rich quick" scheme. Retiring at 30? Who can do that?!
I haven't achieved total Mustachian nirvana yet. She, on the other hand, is very slowly coming around. Recently she has been weighing the pros and cons of buying a tablet (she is leaning on waiting and seeing how she feels later, which is good). I am totally against it but am remaining silent. I am against it because she currently has two laptops and a smartphone that can surely do the computing she plans on doing. Sure, one laptop is going to be donated to a relative, but still. I have a phone and computer and see no reason to drop $400 on an iPad. Her initial reaction to this whole concept was that I was trying to harass her about her spending and kill all her fun.
There's a difference between being frugal and being cheap and I'm not trying to kill anyone's fun. Instead of eating out, why not cook together? Better food, less expensive, coupley time together and fonder memories. Instead of driving down the road to pick up those groceries, why not bike? No gas, exercise, etc. You all know the deal. Instead of talking about saving all the time and questioning her expenses or habits, I've decided to just lead by example. Eventually she'll realize that the majority of the objects in our apartment are hers and that maybe it really is a good idea to reign it in.
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My SO is pretty good, I think we each have strengths that balance each other out. He's not one to buy "stuff" like electronics or clothes or whatever, I'm much more likely to spend a higher amount on clothes or furniture (when I need something)- whereas he'll just buy the cheapest thing available or do without. I also spend a bit more (still a modest amount) on skin and hair products, I'm mixed with a huge mess of curls, so I can't really just use cheap generic hair stuff.
I'm much better at long term planning and shopping for a deal. When he goes grocery shopping for me he nearly always spends about double what I would, even when he follows my list. I know which store has the cheapest produce, seafood, etc- he's more likely to go to one stop shopping and he seems a bit unconvinced of the price difference. I pack lunch for both of us every day, if I didn't he would probably buy food out. On the other hand he has absolutely no "keeping up with the joneses" mentality, and even though he never reads on here, doesn't do research on real estate or investing, he's trusts me and is totally on board. Pretty lucky lady :)
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We're each discernably more mustachian in separate areas and overlap only in some, so it's hard to answer the above question. Where he's already following mustachian principles he's great (possibly better than me), but he is VERY resistant to becoming more mustachian in the areas he's not already because he doesn't understand why it's worth the effort. I'm much more open to changing my ways and trying new things as I've signed onto the idea of early retirement being possible. For example, I used to want the heat up to 72 ("it's freeeeeezing") and I'm trying to keep the heat down more in the winter now that we've bought a house. I scrutinze all of my spending much more closely now. I've also been working on educating myself about investments and improving my investing strategies (I used to have my dad do a lot of trading, I'm trying to move to a long-term buy and hold).
We both have always lived below our means, saving for retirement, maxing out accounts (now, hasn't been always), and somewhat cheaper transportation. (He has a cheap used car. Other than a 4 month blip of a gifted car, I never owned a car.) He uses a 4-5 year old non-smart phone. He doesn't buy much, so he'll go clothes shopping only 1, maybe 2 times a year for example. Meanwhile, I try to get the best price possible for my purchases, so I'll carefully shop for clothes, groceries, applicances, etc., trying to pair multiple sales, coupons, rebates, and credit card rewards or discounts. Last night for example, I made him break our grocery purchases into two transactions to use a $0.50 cent off coupon if you spent over $25 (we spent $25.30 and $26). He would otherwise just pay full price on those times he decided he needed/wanted something. He's actually coming on board with this for groceries at least because the few times I didn't have time to plan meals & the trip in advance, he was horrified at how expensive groceries were now.
But, when he does spend, he'll spend heavily on convenience. He would be happy buying takeout meals or eating out virtually *every single day* instead of cooking from scratch from home. So I do all of the cooking and most of the cleanup (oh joyous rapture). He'll buy a coffee every single day while out, and lunch out every day. (Been working with him on this and we've compromised with a Keurig.) If we do go out with friends, he'll order multiple drinks rather than just one.
Meanwhile, I've tended to splurge on some bigger things (I recently did two laser hair removal packages from Groupon, and I've wanted some slightly nicer upgrades in our kitchen reno/necessary items for the new house). I think it comes from the idea that if I am going to buy something, I should buy it once to really last. So I've got a much nicer knife set than he had, on the idea it's a daily used item, which will last a long time if we take care of them.
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He'll buy a coffee every single day while out, and lunch out every day. (Been working with him on this and we've compromised with a Keurig.)
It was your K cup thread (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/buying-k-cups-cheaply/) that got me thinking about this and was a big inspiration for this poll. So thanks!
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He'll buy a coffee every single day while out, and lunch out every day. (Been working with him on this and we've compromised with a Keurig.)
It was your K cup thread (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/buying-k-cups-cheaply/) that got me thinking about this and was a big inspiration for this poll. So thanks!
Ha! I wondered a little if you had read the thread or if there were others with those issues posting that I hadn't noticed. As noted, he is very good in some areas - it's just that he's terrible in others and unwilling to make significant changes, while I'm actively trying to seek out how I can change and optimize. I opted to vote for the second highest category due to the description (doesn't see the point) as I think a key part of the mustachian perspective is challenging yourself to rethink your 'standard" way of doing things, and ensure your spending lines up with your values, goal and "ROS" - return on spending. I think it's hard for some folks posting advice here who have mustachian spouses to understand that change with an unwilling partner is difficult and requires compromises. It's not simply a matter of "telling him to do X" but generally involves baby steps for a while. And for some strange reason in that thread, it seemed to really upset people when I said I tried, but he wasn't onboard, as if I could force him to do it. (Or that it was really so deathly terrible of a spending habit.)
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My husband is super frugal, bikes to work, eats a bagged lunch, loves cheap and easy hiking and camping and living with him is a mustachian pleasure.
But (there's always a but), he has no interest in money, budgeting, setting up our retirement accounts, etc. He is blissfully unaware of what we make, what we save, what we spend which leaves it me to sort out.
Yes, can we have a new category for these types of spouses? We both had similar frugal upbringings, so we are on the same page with stretching a dollar. But I literally have to make my husband sit down periodically and look at our accounts, and where I store/file things. We are sending in our final (used) car payment this month and he was shocked to see the (early!) payoff notice. Even though I've been giving him the countdown for the last few months. He's not as excited as I am about it, but totally amenable to whatever I say we can afford. "Blissfully unaware" is a good description! lol
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DW is somewhat on board, but has plenty of spendy habits. I've gone full on with the lifestyle, but eased her in by settling on a monthly budget of $X for her to spend however she wants. The monthly number is more than I'm comfortable sharing since it's more than some mustachians entire family budget, but it's low enough that I can max a 401K, pay down a 15 year mortgage, cover all other expenses, and still have $500-$750/month plus a year end bonus for investing/saving.
I've tried to get her on board completely, but when saying I'd like to retire by 40-45, her response has been "everyone has a job and works until 65, I don't understand why/how you don't want to". I have never been one to do what everyone else does. I read a quote on here recently that said something like "When you see a crowd start to gather, run quickly the other way. The crowd is always wrong".
I like the idea of running with the FIRE crowd, not the traditional one. I hope we all have great success whether we can convert the significant others or not.
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He'll buy a coffee every single day while out, and lunch out every day. (Been working with him on this and we've compromised with a Keurig.)
It was your K cup thread (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/buying-k-cups-cheaply/) that got me thinking about this and was a big inspiration for this poll. So thanks!
Ha! I wondered a little if you had read the thread or if there were others with those issues posting that I hadn't noticed. As noted, he is very good in some areas - it's just that he's terrible in others and unwilling to make significant changes, while I'm actively trying to seek out how I can change and optimize. I opted to vote for the second highest category due to the description (doesn't see the point) as I think a key part of the mustachian perspective is challenging yourself to rethink your 'standard" way of doing things, and ensure your spending lines up with your values, goal and "ROS" - return on spending. I think it's hard for some folks posting advice here who have mustachian spouses to understand that change with an unwilling partner is difficult and requires compromises. It's not simply a matter of "telling him to do X" but generally involves baby steps for a while. And for some strange reason in that thread, it seemed to really upset people when I said I tried, but he wasn't onboard, as if I could force him to do it. (Or that it was really so deathly terrible of a spending habit.)
Thanks for mentioning this. Time to go check out that thread.
My one and only Christmas splurge this year was a Keurig for my wife. She's not into the Starbucks latte's and such, but still manages to rack up $3-4/day on gas station coffee/soda/hot chocolate and this was a way to compromise.
Common cents, I feel your pain, 100% agree. I'm doing everything I can to encourage and set an example (I've easily lost 10 lbs and feel 5-10 years younger since changing my lifestyle) but I'm taking it slow and hoping it will snowball.
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He'll buy a coffee every single day while out, and lunch out every day. (Been working with him on this and we've compromised with a Keurig.)
It was your K cup thread (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/buying-k-cups-cheaply/) that got me thinking about this and was a big inspiration for this poll. So thanks!
Ha! I wondered a little if you had read the thread or if there were others with those issues posting that I hadn't noticed.
It's a common theme in a lot of threads, with more popping up all the time. It was just that yours was the most recent. I think sometimes I take for granted how easy it was to get my spouse on board and your thread was a good example of that. That's why I thought this would be interesting, to see if was a difficult conversion for most people, or if it is just the difficult conversions that require more talking, more posts, and more effort.
I think it's hard for some folks posting advice here who have mustachian spouses to understand that change with an unwilling partner is difficult and requires compromises. It's not simply a matter of "telling him to do X" but generally involves baby steps for a while. And for some strange reason in that thread, it seemed to really upset people when I said I tried, but he wasn't onboard, as if I could force him to do it. (Or that it was really so deathly terrible of a spending habit.)
I think this is true too. From the early returns, it looks like about two-thirds of us have/had a relatively easy go of it.
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DW is somewhat on board, but has plenty of spendy habits. I've gone full on with the lifestyle, but eased her in by settling on a monthly budget of $X for her to spend however she wants. The monthly number is more than I'm comfortable sharing since it's more than some mustachians entire family budget, but it's low enough that I can max a 401K, pay down a 15 year mortgage, cover all other expenses, and still have $500-$750/month plus a year end bonus for investing/saving.
I've tried to get her on board completely, but when saying I'd like to retire by 40-45, her response has been "everyone has a job and works until 65, I don't understand why/how you don't want to". I have never been one to do what everyone else does. I read a quote on here recently that said something like "When you see a crowd start to gather, run quickly the other way. The crowd is always wrong".
I like the idea of running with the FIRE crowd, not the traditional one. I hope we all have great success whether we can convert the significant others or not.
This is more or less how we've compromised. We agreed when we got married to discuss any purchases over $50. He was driving me crazy with things like wanting a new computer every other year, and I was probably driving him crazy by not wanting him to spend on what he saw as important purchases that we could afford. He now has a checking account that gets a certain (large) deposit every paycheck that he can buy whatever he wants with. The checking account has also covered things like the difference in cost between a basic car and the upgraded version he wants. (No way I'll ever convince him to buy used.)
We have very different philosophies about saving and spending, and we've both compromised.
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DW is somewhat on board, but has plenty of spendy habits. I've gone full on with the lifestyle, but eased her in by settling on a monthly budget of $X for her to spend however she wants. The monthly number is more than I'm comfortable sharing since it's more than some mustachians entire family budget, but it's low enough that I can max a 401K, pay down a 15 year mortgage, cover all other expenses, and still have $500-$750/month plus a year end bonus for investing/saving.
I've tried to get her on board completely, but when saying I'd like to retire by 40-45, her response has been "everyone has a job and works until 65, I don't understand why/how you don't want to". I have never been one to do what everyone else does. I read a quote on here recently that said something like "When you see a crowd start to gather, run quickly the other way. The crowd is always wrong".
I like the idea of running with the FIRE crowd, not the traditional one. I hope we all have great success whether we can convert the significant others or not.
This is more or less how we've compromised. We agreed when we got married to discuss any purchases over $50. He was driving me crazy with things like wanting a new computer every other year, and I was probably driving him crazy by not wanting him to spend on what he saw as important purchases that we could afford. He now has a checking account that gets a certain (large) deposit every paycheck that he can buy whatever he wants with. The checking account has also covered things like the difference in cost between a basic car and the upgraded version he wants. (No way I'll ever convince him to buy used.)
We have very different philosophies about saving and spending, and we've both compromised.
We did the same thing when we first got married. Joint checking gets the paychecks and pays the bills, and we each had a "you can not question what I spend this $ on" account which got a $200 monthly allowance. We stopped that a long time ago, but this new strategy will keep things relatively in check and shorten our time to reach FIRE.
I noticed you said "a certain (large) deposit" and that's the problem with your strategy and mine. We need to slowly shrink that from large, to medium, to small without compromising quality of life in order to expedite FIRE. A few years ago, I would categorize that amount for DW as extra-large and it left little room for saving. Progress is good.
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I envy some of you :)
DH tried in the beginning, but just doesn't seem to think there is any benefit whatsoever to cutting what we can. We cut some things in the beginning but he seems to have hit a "sweet spot" where he thinks we have cut enough. He's done trying.
We paid off all our credit card debt, but bought a new car to basically replace that debt. He wants to buy another car at the end of the year to replace the other car we have so he can drive 3 miles to work and 3 miles back home every day. He wants to look at bigger houses with "acreage" because he got a telescope for his birthday. And we plan on having a kid next year. Really? When I mention that I would rather pay off the debt we already have instead of being in debt until I die, he says it is "good debt" not like credit card debt.
Meanwhile we have made NO progress regarding the student loans we are drowning in (over 100k combined). To offset his daily coffee habit, I agreed that we could get $40 a month to use for whatever we want. Yet he still charges coffee to the credit card or debit card. He also plans to not retire until "the normal time"...he doesn't think it's possible to do.
I have been busting my butt trying to find a better paying job, but can't seem to get anywhere. We need more income because we have little leftover each month to go towards debt. He isn't going anywhere until someone retires (works for the state in security and is the highest paid i the state).
Can you tell I'm so frustrated!!
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Maigahane-I'm not sure what he would want to do. More than likely travel. Travel a lot. And expensively and luxuriously. He would never agree to travel the US cheaply. He would buy an RV just to drive it around the US!
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He also plans to not retire until "the normal time"...he doesn't think it's possible to do.
What I've been trying to do with my DH is to think of something to get him excited about the idea of retiring early. What would your husband do if he didn't have to work? I haven't made any progress with this on my end but I think if I could find that answer then he'd be more inclined to help work towards it
Or what about getting him mad about the debt? That's what happened to me, and started my research. Each month, I kept saying "What if we didn't have these student loans holding us back? Blah blah blah." I knew we needed to stop being so lackadaisical about our finances, but we always make our payments on time and have a comfortable/frugal life, so I didn't realize how that debt was holding us back until I got angry about it one day.
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Mickijune - glad to see you posted in this thread. I almost posted in your other thread with a link to this one since it seemed like you're husband isn't on board. You are not alone. Obviously we all have different levels of cooperation from our partners, but many of us are frustrated with carrying the overwhelming burden of saving while our partner is spending.
I read all the MMM posts, and other bloggers, about having "the talk". I took notes from them, came up with some of my own ideas, had it all planned out, and when I first approached DW I was met with "You always pick the worst times to bring this up. Is this all you ever want to talk about". We've made great progress since then, but it's a very frustrating process.
I'm not sure how this would have gone over if I actually said it, but one of my talking points was to compare this struggle to a diet. It's kind of like you have an obese/diabetic child and you are doing everything in your power to increase healthy foods and cut out all sugar, then your spouse is feeding the child M&M's under the table.
This must be easier if both are working towards the goal, but it can still be done with only one of you really pushing hard towards it. Good luck.
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My girlfriend is way ahead of the game compared to me even though I discovered MMM a few months back and she had never heard of the site. She just graduated college DEBT FREE and has roughly $15k that she is allocating towards savings, emergencies, and retirement. She has always been extremely frugal and I am doing my best to keep up with her.
I on the other hand was the opposite. I graduated with plenty of student loans ("you will pay them off later with your great job") and a less than stellar understanding of how to successfully harness my money to work for me instead of working for my money. Since MMM I can say that my outlook has changed 180 degrees and I am finding new ways to cut down on spending and increase savings all of the time.
And when all else fails, my girlfriend is there to tell me not to spend my money on whatever I was considering.
Cheers!
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He also plans to not retire until "the normal time"...he doesn't think it's possible to do.
What I've been trying to do with my DH is to think of something to get him excited about the idea of retiring early. What would your husband do if he didn't have to work? I haven't made any progress with this on my end but I think if I could find that answer then he'd be more inclined to help work towards it
Or what about getting him mad about the debt? That's what happened to me, and started my research. Each month, I kept saying "What if we didn't have these student loans holding us back? Blah blah blah." I knew we needed to stop being so lackadaisical about our finances, but we always make our payments on time and have a comfortable/frugal life, so I didn't realize how that debt was holding us back until I got angry about it one day.
Doesn't work when they're indifferent to finances. I've tried to get DH mad about it by showing him how much we pay every.single.day in interest charges but it didn't have the same reaction for him as it does for me
DH was surprised when I showed him the chart. I think figuring out what resonates for him is key, whether it's showing it's possible, showing progress, or discussing retirement dreams. He didn't really believe it till I used our own math to show him the same thing. I think he'll gradually come around to improving on things, particularly after we make our first mortgage payment next month on the house we just bought. And to be fair, he's influencing me (as well as the MMM crowd) as well. I wanted to replace our 2-door standard 2002 Honda Civic very badly because it was noisy and the AC/heating didn't really work (and I don't like driving stick shift), but we replaced the tires (that were square) and it got rid of the rumbling noise so now we can talk to each other on drives and it's like a whole new car. Now I'm good until we have kids and he's the one who wanted to replaced when the horn when out last weekend. Luckily the horn started working again. :)
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My husband is super frugal, bikes to work, eats a bagged lunch, loves cheap and easy hiking and camping and living with him is a mustachian pleasure.
But (there's always a but), he has no interest in money, budgeting, setting up our retirement accounts, etc. He is blissfully unaware of what we make, what we save, what we spend which leaves it me to sort out.
Mostly, I am pretty good at the money side, but I do run into stumbling blocks and need an ear to bend which is why I love these forums.
The above applies to me. Husband is frugal, but he's not that interested in investing or budgeting. I got us started with investing and setting up accounts. He does, however, mostly follow what I set up as the budget.
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My husband is naturally way more frugal than I am, but I'm a much better/more motivated plan-maker, optimizer, budgeter, etc. He's laid back, I'm more of a busybody. We've become a good team. I come up with plans and he helps us stick to them even when I'm wavering and tempted to fall back into spendy habits. I handle the planning, he enforces the execution of the plans. It's working nicely.
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My husband is very much a child of the Great Depression -- he's far too young for that two be literally true, but it's how he was raised nevtheless. I was raised to be extremely frugal, though I'd fallen out of it a bit when we met. He got me back on track (didn't take long, fortunately), and started us budgeting. We did that for a couple of years, but as it turns out, while he can and will do the budgeting and planning, he hates it. I've taken over the planning. We don't budget anymore because we spend so little I really can keep it all in my head month to month.
He hasn't been very interested in investing. Saving, yes, but not investing. His family was poor enough that I don't think he realized how powerful it can be. I told him about our quarterly return statement which I just received last night, though, and I think he's getting more interested! He knows not to expect returns like that every quarter, but I hope emotionally it doesn't affect how he feels about it when returns go down. He's likely to have a low risk tolerance with that Depression thing, too, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
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The above applies to me. Husband is frugal, but he's not that interested in investing or budgeting. I got us started with investing and setting up accounts. He does, however, mostly follow what I set up as the budget.
Total aside from the conversation, but I didn't know that you aren't a dude. It's funny about the assumptions people make (me, and others too, since some seem to think I'm also a guy, despite the fact that I have my gender in my signature).
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I'm not really sure how to answer this poll, my partner and I are both reasonably frugal and have similar values, and we were both already like this before I discovered the MMM blog/forum. There hasn't been much effort on either side - for the most part, we both spend on what is important to us, and save on the rest. In some cases he is more frugal, in some cases I am more frugal, and in some cases we are equally frugal. I do take a bigger interest in my investments, though. He doesn't even seem to have a rough idea of how his investments are doing, he just leaves it to his fund manager.
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The above applies to me. Husband is frugal, but he's not that interested in investing or budgeting. I got us started with investing and setting up accounts. He does, however, mostly follow what I set up as the budget.
Total aside from the conversation, but I didn't know that you aren't a dude. It's funny about the assumptions people make (me, and others too, since some seem to think I'm also a guy, despite the fact that I have my gender in my signature).
You make more assumptions in this post as well. How do you know oldtoyota isn't also a man? ;)
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My wife's onboard. What's cool is that she and I have differing areas of frugalness . . . so by covering each other's weak spots it really works out to the benefit of our savings account.
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I give MrsHybrid a lot of credit, we've been married a long time and had some very old, inefficient habits in place before discovering MMM and developing a whole bunch of new habits can be hard. So while she isn't completely on board as far as I am yet, she has done very well overall. Last year we found ways to save thousands, this year fine tuning will help us to save hundreds or perhaps a few thousand, because all the heaviest lifting has been done.
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Interesting thread. My fiancee is more frugal than myself in some areas, and less in others. We balance each other pretty well.
this is my boyfriend and me as well. he has definite spending weaknesses (microbrews, as someone else mentioned :) I have this weakness too, but not to the same extent, and also I just can't drink as much!), and I don't think he cares too much about financial planning or the long/big-picture view... I do that part. but he out-frugals me in other ways, like doing insane amounts of research, waiting, and planning to get the utmost best deal on a purchase like tools or electronics. he also has helped me realize that although sometimes it's fine to pay more to get a higher quality product that will last a long time (which I love to do), sometimes the brand name vs. no name products are actually made in the same damn factory in China, so in that case just buy the no name!
oh, and we both also greatly enjoy doing things ourselves, but he's been a real asset in teaching me about some of the more stereotypical "man" skills that I am interested in but just never learned (power tools, cars).
all in all I feel really lucky that we have pretty similar priorities and interests. sometimes I hear the kinds of things other people fight about and I'm like, man... I can't even imagine us not being on the same page about that.
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I can very much relate with Cheddar Stacker's position on this, including the carefully planned and crafted "talk" that I tried to plan so well and have at the perfect time which failed completely.
My wife is and will be a constant foot dragger in this process. Luckily she will stick to the budget and is no saboteur, so I can make it work, but it will be impossible for this to go exactly how I want it to and hard for it to go well enough for an extreme financial independence.
We already spend far less than our peers in every way imaginable. Further cuts are viewed by DW as deprivation instead of an opportunity to save more without compromising happiness. When I first presented this latest evolution of our household finances (we were already 4 yrs in to Dave Ramsey style budgeting) she 1st took issue with my version of what retirement would look like for me at age 40 with 2 school aged children. It struck her that it would cause us to have to live on a tight budget forever and deprive our children in ways just so I could be lazy when I hit 40. So, I had to change the objective immediately to well, uh I don't really want to "retire" I want to work for myself. To be able to do that we need to get to a point to where we won't need the income. By age 40. And that is my dream.
So now she's with me enough to tolerate constant spending optimization. We even dropped cable last week and are switching her over to straight talk this week. The upcoming battle that I must win if we are to succeed is the housing battle. She wants to move to a better house in a fancy elementary school district. (there are none that aren't expensive in that district). Our daughter is 2, so I have a couple more years to stall on this front.
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I voted Not yet, but s/he does understand why it's important and is making slow progress.
Originally when I brought up the concepts and goals for FIRE my girlfriend took it rather poorly and saw it as being cheap/lazy. She loves her job and sees herself being incredibly bored if she didn't work. She also didn't see too much benefit to saving.
I found getting her to move towards being on board took a different angle. The option for both of us being able to work very few to no hours after having children was something she saw being very beneficial and wants to work towards. Even if we didn't fully make it to FI when starting a family being positioned where we could cut way back on working is something she is willing to work towards albeit slowly.
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It's funny what a crappy job will do to motivation. When I first discovered MMM my DH loved his job and could not conceive of retiring before 60, although he went along with some of my optimizing because he knew that I hated my job and that for the amount of money we made, we really didn't have much to show for it and wanted to get ourselves in a more secure financial position.
Fast forward a couple of years and DH's refinery job closed and he found a better paying job but absolutely hates it. Now, he asks questions like, so what do we have to do to be FI? He still hasn't committed to cutting cable or selling our big ass house (we love our house, mostly because we built it with our own hands and plan on retiring here). And I don't see him giving up a vehicle (we live in the country), but he's on board with optimizing other things like restaurants, spendy vacations, low thermostat, has no coffee or lunches-out habit, no tech-gadget habits. And the dude can fix anything! He has saved us so much money in house repairs, car repairs, fixing broken stuff, buying used and fixing it, building the house, etc., that while I save us pennies, he's saving us dollars.....I just hate when he spends the pennies I saved on stupid stuff like cable (that we don't even watch!!!).
We could certainly be more 'bad-ass', but from a big-picture perspective, I can't complain. As the saying goes, "He's come a long way, baby!"
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The above applies to me. Husband is frugal, but he's not that interested in investing or budgeting. I got us started with investing and setting up accounts. He does, however, mostly follow what I set up as the budget.
Total aside from the conversation, but I didn't know that you aren't a dude. It's funny about the assumptions people make (me, and others too, since some seem to think I'm also a guy, despite the fact that I have my gender in my signature).
You make more assumptions in this post as well. How do you know oldtoyota isn't also a man? ;)
Sorry to sidetrack even more (like i always do) but damn i thought these same things!! How could i have read all these posts and not knew he was a she? Or maybe he is a he? I don't care, except sometimes it's hard to reply to posts (in general, not just oldtoyota) he, she, married, single, kids, etc etc
To answer the OP, my husband is somewhat on board. Like pp said, agrees to it/then runs out and buys $100 worth of xyz. And never ever checks mint. I made a budget category called "mike's shopping." Hoping he finds it and realizes just how many "needs" he has each month. He did give up starbucks and outback, so there's that. But i also think it's as good as he's gonna get, so i budget off that. It's not like i can just facepunch him when he comes home with snorkel gear ;-)
Great post OP!!!
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The above applies to me. Husband is frugal, but he's not that interested in investing or budgeting. I got us started with investing and setting up accounts. He does, however, mostly follow what I set up as the budget.
Total aside from the conversation, but I didn't know that you aren't a dude. It's funny about the assumptions people make (me, and others too, since some seem to think I'm also a guy, despite the fact that I have my gender in my signature).
You make more assumptions in this post as well. How do you know oldtoyota isn't also a man? ;)
You are completely correct! I made a snap assumption too :)
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something happened last night that made me think of this thread, and is illustrative of how incredibly Mustachian my boyfriend can be when a project grabs his interest...
Our bathroom has a little nook that someone previously built 3 shelves into, but the bottom shelf is like 4 feet off the floor and I really wanted another shelf below it to maximize storage space and tidiness (we rent our house, so maybe we are dumb to be building shelves into it anyway, but we just did a super basic cheap one). Anyway, I had been talking about wanting to do it so on Sunday my boyfriend took it upon himself to go pick up supplies and start working on it (he was also super excited to use tools he got from his parents for Christmas)... yesterday I got home from work and the shelves are almost complete, and he is painting them with white paint he bought at the Restore because "that shit is like $12 at Lowes and here it was only $3!"
ahhhh... so sexy :)
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I'm a reformed shopper. I used to shop for emotional reasons. I don't anymore, but it is a deeply ingrained though broken habit.
Last week was awful. A friend of mine committed suicide. Another friend lost his children in a custody battle. My emotions were pretty raw.
On Saturday, Boyfriend and I joined his co-workers at a retirement celebration at Texas de Brazil (most unMastachian but not our call). Afterward, we went to Macy's so I could pick up 1 makeup item (I hardly wear any makeup anymore, and don't go to the mall. This was rare opportunity to get a necessary item without a separate trip to the mall. Yay).
After getting the makeup, we walked by the shoe section. He patiently waited while I tried on a few pairs of boots. I LOVE boots. I started justifying the purchase of one pair that didn't really fit my narrow calves (nothing does): they're on clearance; they're suede; they're a different shade of red from my red leather boots. I was rolling!
He looked at me and gently said "Is this about boots or is it about Vinny and kids?" I started to tear up and he hugged me and whispered "Remember your financial goals. This isn't Mustachian."
We held hands as we walked away from the boots. I couldn't do this without him.
I love him.
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I'm a reformed shopper. I used to shop for emotional reasons. I don't anymore, but it is a deeply ingrained though broken habit.
Last week was awful. A friend of mine committed suicide. Another friend lost his children in a custody battle. My emotions were pretty raw.
On Saturday, Boyfriend and I joined his co-workers at a retirement celebration at Texas de Brazil (most unMastachian but not our call). Afterward, we went to Macy's so I could pick up 1 makeup item (I hardly wear any makeup anymore, and don't go to the mall. This was rare opportunity to get a necessary item without a separate trip to the mall. Yay).
After getting the makeup, we walked by the shoe section. He patiently waited while I tried on a few pairs of boots. I LOVE boots. I started justifying the purchase of one pair that didn't really fit my narrow calves (nothing does): they're on clearance; they're suede; they're a different shade of red from my red leather boots. I was rolling!
He looked at me and gently said "Is this about boots or is it about Vinny and kids?" I started to tear up and he hugged me and whispered "Remember your financial goals. This isn't Mustachian."
We held hands as we walked away from the boots. I couldn't do this without him.
I love him.
What a great story, thank you for sharing. I'm so sorry for your losses.
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I voted "Somewhat, there has been progress but there's still a lot of foot dragging."
DW is up and down on the idea, and I'm calling that foot dragging. Some days she's all about it, and some of our best lifestyle adjustments have been her ideas. Then some other days it's like she forgets all about it and wants to raid the mall and renovate everything in the house.
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Another "somewhat" here. I handle all the finances in our family, so DH is understandably not faced with it every day like me. If I specifically say that we need to cut back, he promptly does what I ask. I try to show him spreadsheets and charts, etc. He pretends to be interested for a reasonable amount of time, and then leaves everything to me. That's fine as long as he keeps his spending in check.
He comes from a very consumeristic family, so I realize that living frugally is just not natural to him. He usually does really well, but often relapses after spending time with his siblings, talking about cars and vacations, and whatever cool gadget they all have.
I often hear, "I just can't believe I've been working all these years, and I still can't afford to buy the things I want". Heard it just a couple of hours ago as a matter of fact! In my mind, I think "What more could I possibly want?"
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I voted: Not really, and s/he doesn't understand why it's worth the effort.. But she isn't' a big spender. She has her things she will do (hair, occasional spa/night out with the girls) but when it comes to shopping she coupons, looks for great deals, and really doesn't go overboard. She's started cooking more. But she doesn't think in terms of FI or RE. Neither of us just spend on a lot of things, we just want a lot of good things and tend to buy newer for "insurance" (newer is better, right) and ease.
I'm the one who drove altering our cable packages (would like to drop it), handle swapping out our bulbs for LEDs to lower electrical, and switching our cell phone providers (and she's been good about managing her data now that we pay as we go).
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I voted "YES!!, my partner is more on board with the Mustachian lifestyle than I am" but it's not quite true.
He is way more bad-ass than me (semi self sufficient, collects rainwater, grows own food, buys very little stuff - he makes me looks positively consumerist) however this is because he chooses to work as little as possible so he can focus on doing the stuff he loves so he has never built a stash, although he is starting to get interested in this since we've met (he likes the idea of security). No one ever introduced him to the idea of not having to work, so he's always worked, just not very much. He also has a few vices (fancy car/motorbike) but they were paid cash. I don't share these vices, so I am more bad ass in the area of transportation.
It's good to be with a frugal partner who understands life ain't completely about the 9 to 5 and the newest iphone :) We also go on very cheap dates. We've been dating for 6 months and have only been out for a handful of meals. For our last date he took me to look for a waterfall (we didn't find it, but we swam in a nice river). He always has fun ideas of stuff to do.
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My husband definitely fits in the "blissfully unaware" camp. I took over his finances at 18, even before we were married. Paid off his store credit, paid back his parents and sister, set up a budget for the pennies we had left over (retail jobs suck). All the planning, all the financial decision-making, is my job and he's perfectly happy about it.
We both come from a blue-collar background, so we're used to not having the latest, shiniest toys. I started IRAs for both of us over 20 years ago, but we didn't always max them out. I think the wake-up call for him was having a heart attack at 53 and realizing that he may not be able to do his warehouse job until he's 65. Plus, there's a 13-year age difference, and if he wants me to retire with him (even part-time), we're going to need a good-sized nest egg since I'm the primary wage earner. I'm maxing out both IRAs and contributing 15% to our 401k's -- he just became eligible this month after 2 years. I tell him periodically what the retirement balance is, but he couldn't care less how it's invested. He just asks if he can retire yet, particularly after a bad day at work.
It helps that neither of us have extremely expensive hobbies or habits. I talked him into ditching cable and our land line. He's perfectly fine driving a 2003 Mazda and wearing clothes from Goodwill, and he prefers a plain flip phone. So baby steps. Now to work on our eating-out habit...we both need improvement there...
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Sorry for your loss!
Thank you for sharing the story! It's bittersweet, but wonderful to read that you have such a caring partner in your life.
I'm a reformed shopper. I used to shop for emotional reasons. I don't anymore, but it is a deeply ingrained though broken habit.
Last week was awful. A friend of mine committed suicide. Another friend lost his children in a custody battle. My emotions were pretty raw.
On Saturday, Boyfriend and I joined his co-workers at a retirement celebration at Texas de Brazil (most unMastachian but not our call). Afterward, we went to Macy's so I could pick up 1 makeup item (I hardly wear any makeup anymore, and don't go to the mall. This was rare opportunity to get a necessary item without a separate trip to the mall. Yay).
After getting the makeup, we walked by the shoe section. He patiently waited while I tried on a few pairs of boots. I LOVE boots. I started justifying the purchase of one pair that didn't really fit my narrow calves (nothing does): they're on clearance; they're suede; they're a different shade of red from my red leather boots. I was rolling!
He looked at me and gently said "Is this about boots or is it about Vinny and kids?" I started to tear up and he hugged me and whispered "Remember your financial goals. This isn't Mustachian."
We held hands as we walked away from the boots. I couldn't do this without him.
I love him.
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I don't really know what to vote for.
Mine very much wants to be FI, but does not realise it takes effort to get there.
There is no such category ;)
I am reading through this thread for the first time today, but after a HUGE argumente that we had last night.
Hubs is very much on board with the concept of retiring early, he just does not want "all the fun ruined by living frugally"
Whenever I point out how much this little few bucks here and there sets him back over the course of 10 years, he just does not care.
Also I showed him the shockingly simply math (many times) and what savings percentage he will need to get where he needs to go in 10 years,
but he just is lying to himself by saying, well it was not X%, but still enough....Well no, if you are only saving 25%, that won't get you there in 10 years
Then he's just, oh well, then I will just have to live on less.....and the he gives me speeches about living in a trailer in the desert...
He's just not being realistic and that ticks me off, no reasonable argument can help.....
I am very frustrated at the moment!!
Thanks for letting me rant!
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I don't really know what to vote for.
Mine very much wants to be FI, but does not realise it takes effort to get there.
There is no such category ;)
I am reading through this thread for the first time today, but after a HUGE argumente that we had last night.
Hubs is very much on board with the concept of retiring early, he just does not want "all the fun ruined by living frugally"
Whenever I point out how much this little few bucks here and there sets him back over the course of 10 years, he just does not care.
Also I showed him the shockingly simply math (many times) and what savings percentage he will need to get where he needs to go in 10 years,
but he just is lying to himself by saying, well it was not X%, but still enough....Well no, if you are only saving 25%, that won't get you there in 10 years
Then he's just, oh well, then I will just have to live on less.....and the he gives me speeches about living in a trailer in the desert...
He's just not being realistic and that ticks me off, no reasonable argument can help.....
I am very frustrated at the moment!!
Thanks for letting me rant!
Vote "No, s/he is the antithesis of Mustachianism" then. That will teach him!! :)
Sorry, that sounds frustrating. Especially when he says that he'll learn to live on less but refuses to do it now. Because living in a trailer in the desert doesn't sound like fun. (at least to me)
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I totally agree. It's one thing to be supportive with agreeing to cut cable, or whatever. It's a whole different thing to be able to read someone well enough to know what's going on in their head, even if they don't, and then give the emotional support needed to work it through. After a decade of single motherhood, I am deeply grateful to have this man in my life.
Sorry for your loss!
Thank you for sharing the story! It's bittersweet, but wonderful to read that you have such a caring partner in your life.
I'm a reformed shopper. I used to shop for emotional reasons. I don't anymore, but it is a deeply ingrained though broken habit.
Last week was awful. A friend of mine committed suicide. Another friend lost his children in a custody battle. My emotions were pretty raw.
On Saturday, Boyfriend and I joined his co-workers at a retirement celebration at Texas de Brazil (most unMastachian but not our call). Afterward, we went to Macy's so I could pick up 1 makeup item (I hardly wear any makeup anymore, and don't go to the mall. This was rare opportunity to get a necessary item without a separate trip to the mall. Yay).
After getting the makeup, we walked by the shoe section. He patiently waited while I tried on a few pairs of boots. I LOVE boots. I started justifying the purchase of one pair that didn't really fit my narrow calves (nothing does): they're on clearance; they're suede; they're a different shade of red from my red leather boots. I was rolling!
He looked at me and gently said "Is this about boots or is it about Vinny and kids?" I started to tear up and he hugged me and whispered "Remember your financial goals. This isn't Mustachian."
We held hands as we walked away from the boots. I couldn't do this without him.
I love him.
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Vote "No, s/he is the antithesis of Mustachianism" then. That will teach him!! :)
Sorry, that sounds frustrating. Especially when he says that he'll learn to live on less but refuses to do it now. Because living in a trailer in the desert doesn't sound like fun. (at least to me)
Ha, I wish it was that easy!! And yes, my words, how will you live on less then, if you don't care enough to do it now...
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Generally, my wife is just as frugal as I am. She treats herself to $40 worth of Starbucks a month and entertains herself with a $12 a month video game subscription. That's about all she spends money on. We've always been a single income family and she's never had to worry about money (not that she spends much anyways). The flip side is she doesn't pay very close attention at the grocery store and really has no idea what I make or how I'm investing it. Last year I discovered YNAB and over Christmas I discovered MMM. She's still adjusting to my YNAB scrutiny of our spending. I haven't talked about MMM with her yet.
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Because living in a trailer in the desert doesn't sound like fun. (at least to me)
Then you should read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Solitaire).
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Mine is so opposed to the mustachian lifestyle that he purposely does things to negate the changes I make. For example he will purposely leave all the lights on in the house so that when I get home I get frustrated and go turn them all off. He will leave the shower running for 10 minutes before he gets in then offer me $2 to cover the cost when I complain, and then laugh at how ridiculous I am. I am so disheartened being purposely under minded every step of the way that I am doubting our future.
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Mine is so opposed to the mustachian lifestyle that he purposely does things to negate the changes I make. For example he will purposely leave all the lights on in the house so that when I get home I get frustrated and go turn them all off. He will leave the shower running for 10 minutes before he gets in then offer me $2 to cover the cost when I complain, and then laugh at how ridiculous I am. I am so disheartened being purposely under minded every step of the way that I am doubting our future.
Wow, that sure makes DH look petty, vindictive, controlling, etc. If accurate, and not atypical, then finances are the least of your problems and your last sentence is perfectly understandable - if anything it is too optimistic. But improvement starts with recognition of the problem....
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Mine is so opposed to the mustachian lifestyle that he purposely does things to negate the changes I make. For example he will purposely leave all the lights on in the house so that when I get home I get frustrated and go turn them all off. He will leave the shower running for 10 minutes before he gets in then offer me $2 to cover the cost when I complain, and then laugh at how ridiculous I am. I am so disheartened being purposely under minded every step of the way that I am doubting our future.
That sounds very childish of him. Have you sat down and tried to come up with a budget that is a compromise for you both? If his purpose is to demean you, then you have some real issues to work out. If it is an attempt for him to try and establish control, you may want to see if he is feeling powerless in the relationship.
From my own experience, my ex tried to cram frugalness down my throat and was unwilling to try and work out a budget with me, so a lot of my spending and leaving lights on was an attempt to establish some control in the relationship and was an attempt to get him to listen to my needs.
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My DW is coming around more and more every day. Her intent and desire is there but that actual actions have been slow BUT steadily coming so no complaints.
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I wish my husband was more on board. He's not a huge spender, but will think nothing of buying 2 pairs of work boots ($100 each) if they are on sale, or running to Home Depot for new tools and stuff. He is investing into his 401k after some encouragement (10%). I can't even get him to trim back the cable bill, we currently get everything, multi room HD DVR, ect. I feel all of it is unnecessary, but he reasons that it is really the only thing we tend to spend our money on. Its true we do not go out and randomly waste money, I'm not a huge shopper, and really neither is he unless he gets it stuck in his head that we need something. I am still trying to get us to cut back out out to eating, and we have had some success, but I do not think I am going to get much more out of him. He feels that debt "is a part of life."
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I am more frugal than my husband, but he is getting better. We recently switched to Ting, allows me to buy him used clothes now, and is totally on board with paying off our mortgage early. He works in IT though and LOVES various gadgets. I'm working on him to reduce his spending in this area, but sometimes feel bad about it since his interest pays him a nice salary. When I first introduced him to MMM he laughed and said it was crazy, but now I think he secretly has an account of the forum (honey if you read this I love you!) :-) Now we eat at home more, have cheap cell phone bills, and pay our debts off quickly so I can't complain. I'm not perfect either as I haven't started biking yet, so I try to cut my husband some slack.
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My spouse is frugal in most respects. She doesn't mind eating at home and getting used stuff. And I've completely cured her of any desire to go to the mall, which is awesome. I'm very happy in these areas.
The real challenge is getting her to consider leaving her job. We're at the FIRE point, asset-wise, and she's very confused about what comes next.
Part of Mustachianism is actually leaving when the time comes, right?
But eh, we're working on it. It's a good problem to have.
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My hubby is pretty frugal but not interested in the day to day finances, etc and leaves it all to me. If he needs something that is over $50 he asks if we can afford it. Occasionally I make him sit down and go over everything with him.
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As a follow up to this thread, I had mentioned previously about my carefully planned "talk" I had with wife about all this and how it failed to have the paradigm shifting effect on her that I had dreamed it would. Well April marked the 6th full month of me implementing MMM style finances upon our household. We've done great. Came in under budget every month, cancelled cable, cheap cell plans, I bike to work on the regular now, savings rate has been super juiced, etc.
I attempted to give her the good news about how well the "new initiative" has gone for the last 6 months... she goes "what new initiative?" Ha! Only my new life plan and all of my hopes and dreams! Looks like there's room to cut more if she's not even in pain yet.
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As a follow up to this thread, I had mentioned previously about my carefully planned "talk" I had with wife about all this and how it failed to have the paradigm shifting effect on her that I had dreamed it would. Well April marked the 6th full month of me implementing MMM style finances upon our household. We've done great. Came in under budget every month, cancelled cable, cheap cell plans, I bike to work on the regular now, savings rate has been super juiced, etc.
I attempted to give her the good news about how well the "new initiative" has gone for the last 6 months... she goes "what new initiative?" Ha! Only my new life plan and all of my hopes and dreams! Looks like there's room to cut more if she's not even in pain yet.
My wife might leave me if I cut cable without her agreeing to it.
I take it you do grocery shopping?
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We are on the same page about how much to spend on shared expenses, like housing, groceries, and utilities. She likes to spend a little money on stuff I think is silly like lattes and clothes, but it doesn't bother me. And it doesn't bother her that I don't like to spend money on those things. Sometimes we change the thermostat when the other is not looking :) She's definitely down with me being mustachian, and she seems to get a little closer to it all the time. I think one of the biggest reasons we are happy together is we both know we don't need to spend to have tons of fun.
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Definitely on the same page and have been for years--before we even met, actually. Our shared & innate sense of frugality was one of the things that drew us together initially and then led to our marriage. I will say that we wax and wane over the years, sometimes one of us is in a more frugal "burst" than the other, but we're generally in agreement on all things financial and neither of us has ever done anything truly "anti-mustachian." I'm grateful for this--I think it would be tough to disagree on this front and I feel for those who struggle.
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My wife might leave me if I cut cable without her agreeing to it.
I take it you do grocery shopping?
oh yeah mine would too. I didnt cancel cable until she agreed to it. I try to do the groceries but she prefers to do it. We dont do too bad in that department anyway.
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Our M.O. our whole married life (25 years!) has been that he's the saver and I'm the spender. Until very recently, he handled all the banking, paid all the bills and managed all the investments/savings, and I did "my part" by shopping at Target instead of Nordstroms.
Then I discovered MMM. And now I'm making steel-cut oatmeal and turning off lights and trimming our satellite package and taking my foot off the accelerator when I go downhill. :)
He's not as fond of the "let's eat in tonight!" mantra I keep repeating, but he's game to give it a try.
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This is sooo much like me and DH, it's almost eerie. I think it's mainly because I grew up in a middle class two parent family, and DH grew up with a single mom who was sporadically employed. He will go months at a time where he barely spends anything, and then might treat everyone to work to lunch or decide he needs new camping gear, so it balances out. I consult with him on all our investments, but he's pretty hands off when it comes to all of the long-term planning. Our "budget" is really more of a spending plan where we plan to spend as little as we can. He does tell me about un-mustachian things that he's heard about (co-worker buying a brand new car, etc.) and tries to explain mustachian principles to people, if the discussion comes up. We were pretty mustachian before finding MMM, and I give DH a lot of credit for that (he was a big proponent of living near school/work, got a used bike, prefers outdoorsy free activities to costly entertainment options, etc.)
This rings true for me also, especially the day to day frugality balanced out by occasional splurging. He is not interested in the financial management aspects, although, like you, I do try to keep him in the loop. Those big splurges do annoy me somewhat, since it's difficult to predict when they'll happen and therefore budget for them, but ultimately it's alright - I'm not 100% mustachian myself, I just tend to spend smaller amounts of money more frequently. I'm getting there though. Basically, he's 80% on board, but wants to make sure he's still "living for today" and while we do lots of fun, cheap stuff, sometimes that involves spending money that could probably be better used elsewhere.
We recently had a good talk about our goals though, and since buying a house is a priority for both of us, we agreed to "buckle down" so we can save up for a downpayment as quickly as possible. I'm going to go old-school on this one, and put up something to track this on the fridge - perhaps a daily reminder will help (both of us!) to stay the course.