POLL: what is your SF salary?

[facepalm]

"I pay 4K a month for my 50 square foot studio apartment . . . and my 6 roommates also each pay 4K a month . . ."

https://youtu.be/RjkvvIOsQYk

[Jaguar Paw]

Technically, we should be making comparisons on an after-tax basis, since the index does not include income taxes. This would make San Francisco even more expensive than most of the US.

"The Cost of Living Index is restricted to consumer goods and services. It does not take into account income taxes, ad valorem taxes, or sales taxes."
http://coli.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/2016-COLI-Manual.pdf

While I'd definitely be interested to work in San Francisco someday, this calculator makes me doubt anyone would offer me enough to justify the move. Seems too expensive, especially with kids.

Wow, didn't see that this didn't account for taxes.  Good lord.  I'm not even in NY/SF/LA/DC, and I still really, really, REALLY need to convince spouse that Houston would be a good move...

(Or convince my firm that I never need to be physically in the office and they should let us move to somewhere in the PNW!)

Houstonian right here! 105 became 192

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Don't worry, I'm not specifically attempting to convince you to move to the city.  Feel free to live where you can make $135k in a LCOL.  That's a truly rare case indeed.

Probably not as rare as you think. There are well-paid jobs in rural areas all over the country. Folks in the country need doctors, lawyers, business owners, and salesmen just like those of you in the city. I clear $100K as a forester.  Hell, even government work can pay well if you get into the management side of it. My dad maxed out at about $250K as a the second-ranking employee in a state agency and never lived in a city with more than 1000 residents.

[Abe Froman]

$155K becomes $247,835. Gold Rush here I come !!!!!!!!

[MrMoogle]

$155K becomes $247,835. Gold Rush here I come !!!!!!!!

I'm guessing "Greater Chicago" is pretty far out from downtown?

My salary/COL doubles from here to SF.  Housing goes up 365%, and before the hike, that's ~ 35% of my current spending. 

[SpareChange]

85k to 150k. Damn...

[Dicey]

A whopping $410,000 from the $240k I put in.

Nice.

I think, even living in SF, that extra $160,000 a year they are giving me could be saved. I think it's unlikely that housing would cost an ADDITIONAL $160,000. Rent would have to be well over $10,000 a month, which is likely unrealistically HIGH even for SF.

I think some people mistakenly believe that it costing that much more means you'd make that much more.... It generally doesn't from what I've seen/heard.

My job in that area would pay about 10-15% more (based on job postings I've seen over the years) despite the cost of living almost doubling...

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

I think people are actually going the other direction in terms of their line of thinking.  They're plugging their salary into this calculator and seeing how they're needing a 50-75% hike in salary to contend with the higher COL.  I think most people would surmise that they likely wouldn't be able to swing such a pay hike were they to move to Cali.  And thus (like myself) feel somewhat settled/vindicated in their current geographic choice (and the occasional extreme/unpleasant weather that comes with it).

This board is full of MMM-minded folks.  Cali, unless it's supremely and uniquely linked to your lifestyle/family/preferences, is simply not a great place to be during the accumulation (or, even really, the RE) phase.

I have to disagree with you there.  Getting paid a higher salary while living in a HCOL area is the perfect place for someone MMM-minded.  It's not like we settle for the "average" cost for anything, like this calculator is doing for costs.  The ability to get paid more and stash away more in raw dollars, even at the same savings percentage, is likely to have you come out ahead. 

It's trickier if you want to stay, but if you're willing to move after FIRE, HCOL areas are great for accumulation.  I wouldn't put much weight in the calculation from this article.  It's not really all that close to reality.

Point conceded.  But I will counter that I'm able to still enjoy a more comfy, occasionally bougie life NOW without compromising FIRE goals.  Whereas in Cali, my margin for error would be materially smaller.  But, hey look, there is no free lunch in any of these scenarios.  Pick the bundle of elements (HCOL vs. LCOL, weather, etc.) that works for you and always be on that FI-YAAA grind, baby.

On what are you basing your calculations? I call total BS. I'm a SoCal native, but I have lived in the Bay Area since '92. I stretched just slightly across the $100k mark exactly once in my career. I was self-employed at the time, so SSI took a good chunk of that as well. Nonetheless, I got to FIRE. So again, what facts are you basing your assertations on? It can be done, says one who did.

[obstinate]

These calculators are so funny because they assume the user is a weakling who requires median quality everything. Take me for example. I live in Manhattan and make around 450 a year, give or take fifty. I picked some random place in Georgia by way of comparison. It said the equivalent salary there was 180 a year.

Would I rather be in Georgia making 180? Hell no! Even on a pure financial calculus, it makes no sense. My share of my family's expenses comes out to something like 60k. If you assume a 50% average tax rate (way higher than the actual!) I take home 225. That means I'm banking 160 a year. This is far more than the take home on 180 in podunk GA, before taking expenses into account.

Moreover, I live lavishly in the heart of the city. The comparison would be more stark if we were renting a sensible place in Brooklyn or up in Harlem.

[jlcnuke]

In any given scenario you can find an example where it is "good" and an example where it is "bad" to live in a HCOL area or a LCOL area financially.

Talking "normal", "average", and "median", gives a general perspective for most people.

The median income in San Francisco in 2016 was $84,675 according to the St. Louis Federal Reserve Bank data.
The cost of living in San Francisco is "272.60" per bestplaces.net (compared to a baseline "100" for the average cost of living in the US).
The median income in the US in 2016 $56,516.

Cost of living being 2.726 times the US average in SF would give a roughly equivalent income of the US median being $154,026. However, the actual median income in SF is only 55% of that amount.

The obvious conclusion from that simple set of data is that the "average" household in SF probably has less disposable income than the average household in the US, despite having a higher income.

If you go to the calculator sites, they'll tell you what they calculate an "equivalent' salary to be, but that isn't what "most" people will actually get. The average person will get a significantly lower salary in the HCOL area than their LCOL salary.

That doesn't mean there aren't "winners" or legitimate reasons why it can be preferential or even necessary, but the "average" person in a median income job isn't going to benefit financially by going from a LCOL area to a HCOL area for the relatively small pay increase generally associated with such a move.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Would I rather be in Georgia making 180? Hell no! Even on a pure financial calculus, it makes no sense. My share of my family's expenses comes out to something like 60k. If you assume a 50% average tax rate (way higher than the actual!) I take home 225. That means I'm banking 160 a year. This is far more than the take home on 180 in podunk GA, before taking expenses into account.

As a resident of podunk, GA, I can assure you that the feeling is mutual :)

All kidding aside, you're right that it is difficult to make reasonable salary comparisons using this tool from the perspective of an individual. There is no salary that could cause me to be happy living in Manhattan.

[jlcnuke]

Would I rather be in Georgia making 180? Hell no! Even on a pure financial calculus, it makes no sense. My share of my family's expenses comes out to something like 60k. If you assume a 50% average tax rate (way higher than the actual!) I take home 225. That means I'm banking 160 a year. This is far more than the take home on 180 in podunk GA, before taking expenses into account.

As a resident of podunk, GA, I can assure you that the feeling is mutual :)

All kidding aside, you're right that it is difficult to make reasonable salary comparisons using this tool from the perspective of an individual. There is no salary that could cause me to be happy living in Manhattan.

$2M/day -  just enough that I could retire and move away within a week.... :D

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Would I rather be in Georgia making 180? Hell no! Even on a pure financial calculus, it makes no sense. My share of my family's expenses comes out to something like 60k. If you assume a 50% average tax rate (way higher than the actual!) I take home 225. That means I'm banking 160 a year. This is far more than the take home on 180 in podunk GA, before taking expenses into account.

As a resident of podunk, GA, I can assure you that the feeling is mutual :)

All kidding aside, you're right that it is difficult to make reasonable salary comparisons using this tool from the perspective of an individual. There is no salary that could cause me to be happy living in Manhattan.

$2M/day -  just enough that I could retire and move away within a week.... :D

Okay, I stand corrected. There IS a salary that could cause me to be happy in Manhattan. Any offers?

[netskyblue]

Ha I used that calculator a year ago when I was contemplating a move from the midwest to the Bay area and applying for jobs.

[Mr. Paws]

Wow literally slightly more than doubles my salary.  Housing cost is 421% increase...

[jpompo]

I thought I just posted a comment but can't find it.....

This 'calculator' is not correct. There is nothing that costs less in Fort Worth than in Dallas, Austin or Houston. Gas is 10-15 cents higher in Dallas as I am there all the time to see it. A few years ago an apartment that was $1150 in Fort Worth costs $2200 in Dallas..... almost the same apartment except the one in Fort Worth came with a garage and car port, the one in Dallas you had to pay extra for that. The calculator says that things are cheaper in Allen, Texas than in Fort Worth, well I was there 15 years ago and 10 years ago and 5 years ago and I was just there yesterday and not yet have I seen 1 thing cheaper in Allen, Texas. As a matter of fact, that is one of the hot spots in Texas as has been for several years. Allen just spent $60 MILLION on a HIGH SCHOOL football stadium a couple of years ago.

I think the batteries in this calculator need changed.....

I had the same feeling but regarding Denver. I compared to Portland Oregon, a place that I know has similar housing costs if not a touch lower, the result, housing is 31% more expensive in Portland.