Poll

Are you Married, Divorced, or Never married

Married never divorced
387 (60.6%)
Married previously divorced
33 (5.2%)
Divorced
61 (9.5%)
Never married
158 (24.7%)

Total Members Voted: 635

Author Topic: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married  (Read 12777 times)

NotJen

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2018, 05:06:24 PM »
Quote
If you're divorced did you take a big financial hit

Somehow, in our divorce we both came out of it feeling financially better than when we were married!  I had to write him a $60k check for his portion of home equity and savings, but it didn’t feel like much of a loss since I was making good money and could save as much as I wanted.  I really think it had no impact on my finances overall.  We earned basically the same salary in similar fields.

Quote
is there anyone who regretted the divorce a few years later?

No way!  We were together for 10 years, and divorced now for 8.  My life is much improved.  He wasn’t completely terrible, but I really needed to get away from him to become who I am today.  We didn’t have kids and didn’t keep in touch.

Quote
Was the divorce related to your Mustachian lifestyle?

No, we were pretty compatible when it came to money.  He was more spendypants than me, but we had the same financial goals, and that’s what’s important.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2018, 07:09:33 AM »
Is there anyone who regretted the divorce a few years later?
The problem with this question is that it assumes that the person responding is the one who made the decision to divorce (which is typically the woman).  I'm guessing that quite a few of the people who were left regret that the divorce happened and did suffer financially, but you won't hear from them because it wasn't their decision.

merlin7676

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2018, 08:12:32 AM »
Married 3 years ago yesterday.   But we started late as I'm 42 and he's 47 now.
Of course it was never an option until it became legal a few years ago

Just Joe

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2018, 01:02:02 PM »
DW and I are middle aged and likely older than some of you. 20+ years married and first marriages for both of us.

We have had plenty of role models and they run the whole gamut on the topic of marriages happy to sad, traditional to not.

We're happy and boring working folks who will retire a decade earlier than some of our social circle with good financial security. We got a late start on career, education and financial security.

As we are best friends to each other I can't imagine being without DW.

PoutineLover

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2018, 01:08:27 PM »
I put never married but I was common law for a while, so now I guess I'm technically separated but in a new relationship. I do plan on getting married, and I hope it will be for life. Doing my best to make that more likely by making sure we have a strong foundation, compatible values, good communication and shared life goals. My parents are divorced, and I hated living in a home with parents who fought a lot, so I would really like to avoid that in my own life.

partgypsy

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2018, 02:24:03 PM »
Is there anyone who regretted the divorce a few years later?
The problem with this question is that it assumes that the person responding is the one who made the decision to divorce (which is typically the woman).  I'm guessing that quite a few of the people who were left regret that the divorce happened and did suffer financially, but you won't hear from them because it wasn't their decision.

Hmm. good point. I'm kind of in both categories. I was left by my husband, but he didn't want to actually get divorced. So I had to both get left, and file for divorce. fun fun.  I regret what happened to my marriage, but I don't regret the divorce. 

soccerluvof4

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2018, 02:17:04 AM »
3 times the charm for me. First one was a shotgun , dumb kid with no guidance wanted to take responsibility lasted 2 years and paid child support for 17 more. I was just building my business at the time and things were going good to I'd say half the time after taxes I was paying 3500$ a month. Never missed a payment but cost me a small fortune over the years.

Second time was the real deal. Thought it would last forever and after 6 years she said she had to tell me something. Turns out she was very bulimic and was doing it every day. Tried for the longest time to help through it but she started pushing kids and I wasn't going to unless she worked through it. End of story I left being still in love with someone thinking that would make a difference but never did. She would be ok for a month or two come back and be right back at it. I had to move on. That divorce cost me nothing really other than a lot of sadness. Thought I would never get married again and for 4 years just worked out and built my business.

Then I met number 3. 21 years later 4 kids enough said. I think of number 2 once in awhile as she was my first love but only because of that.  So not sure regrets is the right thing but some tough ordeals for sure. 

KarefulKactus15

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2018, 12:59:50 PM »
Divorced. Happy marriage and friendly amiable divorce on the cusp of what was to be our joint FIRE at 38. We were totally inline on the FI and frugality stuff but he changed his mind on the RE part (which was the most important part to me) and our plans for RE. I understood completely. He ended up not being the RE type he thought he was and had a cool adventurous job and loved it and never wanted to quit but it wasn't the life I envisioned for myself.   Not much of a financial hit as we kept separate finances but put FIRE off a few extra years for me.  No kids, sameish jobs and income and savings rate so we pretty much left with what we each brought into the relationship. I won't legally marry again for various mostly financial reasons, or combine finances with an SO, but would happily share my life with a FIREd guy.

I feel you.  Happy marriage with amicable divorce. We were on track for joint FIRE before 30.  You can do that with 2x tech incomes and practicing MMM from age 20.
Shit happens... People change their life goals...

nancyjnelson

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2018, 01:43:59 PM »
Married, divorced after 14 years.

Yes, I took a financial hit.

The divorce wasn't related to a Mustachian lifestyle; we were both relatively frugal.  That said, he refused to get a job after we were married.  That actually made sense when the kids were young, but once they both were in school full time, I had assumed he would get at least a part time job to help with our expenses.  I was wrong. 

I don't regret the divorce.  I was so tired of having a third child - especially one who had the ability to overrule me.  Now my kids are grown, the cats have passed away, and I am free, free, free!


   


Blueberries

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2018, 10:17:06 AM »
Married for the insurance, tax benefits, and ease of legal matters.  I will divorce on paper if it makes sense to do so.  I don't value the institution of marriage beyond using it for what it can get me. I was committed before the paper and I still am after.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2018, 10:24:02 AM »
I am a bit shocked that just shy of 6% of the people are remarried. Figured it be low but not that low. Would of been interesting to put age with that. Anyhow , just thought it to be interesting.

OurTown

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2018, 11:51:08 AM »
Divorced twice, married three times. 

Dicey

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2018, 01:32:24 AM »
Divorced after a long-term marriage. Ended up with sole custody of 3 kids - not a financial hit as I ended up with the home and all the money. Kids are out of the house and in college now. Looking to remarry someday - still trying to figure out the dating piece. FI here but RE isn't of interest now. This might change and I might pull the plug on working full time if I find the right person. Seems to be a small community of single women who drink the mustachian kool aide.
Rant Warning: For fuck's sake, the 909 people who drank the "kool aide" died. You've managed to disrespect them and single mustachian women in one sentence. Ugh.

Dicey

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2018, 01:58:18 AM »
I guess we widowed folk should just go hide in a corner. No polls for you! (said in Soup Nazi voice)
Don't hide, dear calimom. Life kicked you in the gut and you're surviving brilliantly.

DH is a widower.  He was married to his HS sweetheart for almost 25 years. He had never even kissed any girl but her. She died of cancer faitly suddenly. I was 54 when we started dating and I had never been married. We just celebrated our sixth wedding anniversary, and we are happily in love. He is a better husband to me because of the loss he suffered. We say we would love to get to 25 years together. Time will tell.

slackmax

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2018, 08:27:01 AM »
I was curious how the divorce rate on this forum compares to the general population. If you're divorced did you take a big financial hit and is there anyone who regretted the divorce a few years later? Was the divorce related to your Mustachian lifestyle?

Divorced at age 45. Yes, due to mustachianism on my part. I wanted the wife to get a job. She thought I didn't love her since I was unhappy paying for her car, car insurance, food, psychiatrist bills, housing, health insurance, hobby volunteer work (the who shebang).   

She moves out, gets about $120,000 out of me in settlement plus child support. I am emotionally devastated.   

But better that she left, I guess. Maybe she would have divorced me 10 years later anyway and gotten $240,000  !!!   

Last year my girlfriend died, and the ex hinted she wanted to get back together with me. I said no thanks!     

partgypsy

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2018, 10:35:32 AM »
I was curious how the divorce rate on this forum compares to the general population. If you're divorced did you take a big financial hit and is there anyone who regretted the divorce a few years later? Was the divorce related to your Mustachian lifestyle?

Divorced at age 45. Yes, due to mustachianism on my part. I wanted the wife to get a job. She thought I didn't love her since I was unhappy paying for her car, car insurance, food, psychiatrist bills, housing, health insurance, hobby volunteer work (the who shebang).   

She moves out, gets about $120,000 out of me in settlement plus child support. I am emotionally devastated.   

But better that she left, I guess. Maybe she would have divorced me 10 years later anyway and gotten $240,000  !!!   

Last year my girlfriend died, and the ex hinted she wanted to get back together with me. I said no thanks!   

Why are you emotionally devastated? Because she moved out, or because she got 120K? It's unclear.

Dicey

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2018, 10:58:36 AM »
I was curious how the divorce rate on this forum compares to the general population. If you're divorced did you take a big financial hit and is there anyone who regretted the divorce a few years later? Was the divorce related to your Mustachian lifestyle?

Divorced at age 45. Yes, due to mustachianism on my part. I wanted the wife to get a job. She thought I didn't love her since I was unhappy paying for her car, car insurance, food, psychiatrist bills, housing, health insurance, hobby volunteer work (the who shebang).   

She moves out, gets about $120,000 out of me in settlement plus child support. I am emotionally devastated.   

But better that she left, I guess. Maybe she would have divorced me 10 years later anyway and gotten $240,000  !!!   

Last year my girlfriend died, and the ex hinted she wanted to get back together with me. I said no thanks!   

Why are you emotionally devastated? Because she moved out, or because she got 120K? It's unclear.
I wondered the same thing. Related: The wife's behavior was apparently fully enabled by him. It could not have happened in a vacuum. If he was her whole source of support, well, he must have supported this all along. Not saying he's wrong, just that it takes two...

FIvorced

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2018, 11:12:22 AM »
Interesting thread to stumble on :)

I'm in the process of getting divorced right now and started my blog for folks in this boat.

My soon to be ex, had somewhat come along for the FIRE journey, but was still a big spender at heart. We were pretty well on our way to FI. So, financially seeing net worth cut in half hurts, but thankfully we have no kids and she made more than I did, so that was really the biggest hit.

englishteacheralex

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2018, 04:14:36 PM »
Married a great guy five years ago after dating him exactly one year. Had two kids. Best three decisions I ever made.

Related: Net worth has increased by $300k in the last five years. And that was basically starting from scratch when we got together (I paid off his car loan with my emergency fund and that took us down to $3k in savings and my $15k Roth IRA).

slackmax

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2018, 09:52:03 AM »
I was curious how the divorce rate on this forum compares to the general population. If you're divorced did you take a big financial hit and is there anyone who regretted the divorce a few years later? Was the divorce related to your Mustachian lifestyle?

Divorced at age 45. Yes, due to mustachianism on my part. I wanted the wife to get a job. She thought I didn't love her since I was unhappy paying for her car, car insurance, food, psychiatrist bills, housing, health insurance, hobby volunteer work (the who shebang).   

She moves out, gets about $120,000 out of me in settlement plus child support. I am emotionally devastated.   

But better that she left, I guess. Maybe she would have divorced me 10 years later anyway and gotten $240,000  !!!   

Last year my girlfriend died, and the ex hinted she wanted to get back together with me. I said no thanks!   

Why are you emotionally devastated? Because she moved out, or because she got 120K? It's unclear.

Emotionally devastated by her leaving, since I still loved her although hated her at the same time. Also devastated emotionally by the loss of my money. (No, not 'our' money).  I did not want the divorce. I was willing to stay in the proverbial bad marriage.   

Our plan was that she would go back to work after our child was in school. I was OK with being the sole breadwinner until then, since raising the child at home with a mom is the best way, IMHO.  So yes, I 'enabled' that willingly.

But she never went back to work when the child was in school. All sorts of excuses. Lots of time to do volunteer work and 'find' herself. Meanwhile I was working in computer programming, which was very stressful, and she is having zero stress (other than angst over finding herself).

So she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

And she thought I was the bad guy for wanting her to be responsible and earn money, as she had agreed to do.     

     


never give up

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2018, 12:05:14 PM »
I have never been married and am currently single. I’ve just never met the right person and am very shy which doesn’t help. I feel there is less chance of me marrying now I have FI as a goal. A year into my FI journey I am starting to feel a bit different to the norm. The people I know the most are quite spendy.

Zikoris

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2018, 12:17:02 PM »

Emotionally devastated by her leaving, since I still loved her although hated her at the same time. Also devastated emotionally by the loss of my money. (No, not 'our' money).  I did not want the divorce. I was willing to stay in the proverbial bad marriage.   

Our plan was that she would go back to work after our child was in school. I was OK with being the sole breadwinner until then, since raising the child at home with a mom is the best way, IMHO.  So yes, I 'enabled' that willingly.

But she never went back to work when the child was in school. All sorts of excuses. Lots of time to do volunteer work and 'find' herself. Meanwhile I was working in computer programming, which was very stressful, and she is having zero stress (other than angst over finding herself).

So she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

And she thought I was the bad guy for wanting her to be responsible and earn money, as she had agreed to do.     

   

This seems to be a pretty common situation, doesn't it? It was definitely a factor in my parents' divorce. I wonder if there may be a generational thing at play - a lot of women would have grown up in a single income household with a stay at home mom who never worked, and felt like that was a reasonable thing to expect in their own lives, since it was absolutely a cultural norm at the time they were growing up. And then times changed. Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder.

Blueberries

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2018, 06:47:45 PM »

This seems to be a pretty common situation, doesn't it? It was definitely a factor in my parents' divorce. I wonder if there may be a generational thing at play - a lot of women would have grown up in a single income household with a stay at home mom who never worked, and felt like that was a reasonable thing to expect in their own lives, since it was absolutely a cultural norm at the time they were growing up. And then times changed. Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder.

Another factor to consider is the emotional, physical, and mental changes that often happen when you have and raise children.  Many women report losing themselves, increased depression, etc., and many more struggle to find work due to the employment gap. 



Pizzabrewer

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2018, 07:47:27 PM »
Married once, never divorced. 32 years and counting.

Dicey

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2018, 10:26:49 PM »
I have never been married and am currently single. I’ve just never met the right person and am very shy which doesn’t help. I feel there is less chance of me marrying now I have FI as a goal. A year into my FI journey I am starting to feel a bit different to the norm. The people I know the most are quite spendy.
Honey, it didn't happen for me until I was 54 and FIRE was always a goal. Keep on living your best life and you might just be as surprised as I was when it happens. Believe me, it was worth the wait.

never give up

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2018, 10:21:35 AM »
Thanks for the kind words Dicey.

honeybbq

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #76 on: November 19, 2018, 12:59:40 PM »

Emotionally devastated by her leaving, since I still loved her although hated her at the same time. Also devastated emotionally by the loss of my money. (No, not 'our' money).  I did not want the divorce. I was willing to stay in the proverbial bad marriage.   

Our plan was that she would go back to work after our child was in school. I was OK with being the sole breadwinner until then, since raising the child at home with a mom is the best way, IMHO.  So yes, I 'enabled' that willingly.

But she never went back to work when the child was in school. All sorts of excuses. Lots of time to do volunteer work and 'find' herself. Meanwhile I was working in computer programming, which was very stressful, and she is having zero stress (other than angst over finding herself).

So she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

And she thought I was the bad guy for wanting her to be responsible and earn money, as she had agreed to do.     

   

This seems to be a pretty common situation, doesn't it? It was definitely a factor in my parents' divorce. I wonder if there may be a generational thing at play - a lot of women would have grown up in a single income household with a stay at home mom who never worked, and felt like that was a reasonable thing to expect in their own lives, since it was absolutely a cultural norm at the time they were growing up. And then times changed. Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder.

Or the exact opposite.

I watched my mother, with her MRS degree, become widowed at 45 and never earned a real pay check again, living on social security and military benefits.

I was damned sure I would never ever need anyone to pay for anything in my entire life. I got an excellent education and make a shit ton of money. If my spouse dies, I will miss him desperately, of course, but it will not devastate me financially.

slackmax

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #77 on: November 19, 2018, 03:30:28 PM »
Katscratch,

Thanks for the empathy. Your post has somehow disappeared on my screen, but I hope it shows up for others to view.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 03:33:50 PM by slackmax »

mxt0133

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2018, 05:39:06 PM »
Was married at age 21, three kids.  Divorced at 42.  He decided the Lord was calling him to ministry and that lifestyle didn't include, for him, me as a wife nor the three kids.  I was not "pastor's wife material." Kids were inconvenient to have.  I couldn't make this stuff up.  He quit his job; we had to sell the house.  Judge awarded me 60% of the house proceeds and 80% of the retirement money, since he was only "able" to provide us with $100 a week combined child support and alimony.  We are talking a guy with an MBA.  I had to start over; bought a townhouse with the house proceeds, got a job (I'd been a SAHM).  Huge financial hit.  However, I got all the kids through high school, they put themselves through college with minimal help, and all have advanced degrees.  DD has a Ph.D., older son a J.D., younger son a Master's.  All are gainfully employed.  It was a hugely painful and difficult time for all of us, but today all, including myself, are happily married and doing well.

So your telling me that if someone wanted to stop supporting their kids and spouse, that didn't work, all they would have to do is quit and start volunteering or join some other charitable cause and a judge couldn't impose that the breadwinner to continue to provide support at the level they are capable of?  I get that the spouse with custody would get the majority of the assets but the the spouse that left is only required to provide $100 a week in child support and alimony?  That's legal????

mxt0133

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2018, 09:26:34 PM »
Not in all states.  Some states will use what they call "imputed income" to set a standard for child support owed by an underearning spouse -- it is typically based on your most recent earnings, or the average earnings someone with your level of education/in your field could earn.  Which could be a problem for those who FIRE early or were planning only to work PT at a relatively young age.

Even still if I was an executive and changed my job to a burger flipper, would the imputed income be based on the burger flipper pay or for the executive?

partgypsy

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #80 on: November 20, 2018, 05:40:00 PM »
So, I had to recently go through this, and this is north Carolina law. (May differ by states). No, the stay at home spouse doesn't get the house or majority  of assets. Property is equitable division, which means usually 50/50. Even if only one spouse worked, it's divided evenly (with some exceptions like assets kept separate prior and through marriage, and inheritances kept separate). so someone who said "my money", nope if you are married it is joint money. Everything else including retirement funds, pensions is split up and fair game. As far as child support it is determined by current earnings. However, if the judge feels someone is unearning puposely (either by type of job they could get, or hours) the judge can grant child support based on what they feel the parent can actually earn.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 09:35:26 AM by partgypsy »

mxt0133

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #81 on: November 21, 2018, 12:21:31 AM »
@partgypsy That makes a bit more sense, hopefully it is also re-evaluated periodically so that if circumstances change the amount is adjusted.

slackmax

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #82 on: November 21, 2018, 07:01:08 AM »

Emotionally devastated by her leaving, since I still loved her although hated her at the same time. Also devastated emotionally by the loss of my money. (No, not 'our' money).  I did not want the divorce. I was willing to stay in the proverbial bad marriage.   

Our plan was that she would go back to work after our child was in school. I was OK with being the sole breadwinner until then, since raising the child at home with a mom is the best way, IMHO.  So yes, I 'enabled' that willingly.

But she never went back to work when the child was in school. All sorts of excuses. Lots of time to do volunteer work and 'find' herself. Meanwhile I was working in computer programming, which was very stressful, and she is having zero stress (other than angst over finding herself).

So she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

And she thought I was the bad guy for wanting her to be responsible and earn money, as she had agreed to do.     

   

This seems to be a pretty common situation, doesn't it? It was definitely a factor in my parents' divorce. I wonder if there may be a generational thing at play - a lot of women would have grown up in a single income household with a stay at home mom who never worked, and felt like that was a reasonable thing to expect in their own lives, since it was absolutely a cultural norm at the time they were growing up. And then times changed. Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder.

Zikoris,  It was ironic that when I went to my minister to talk about my divorce, he took the side of my wife, and said if I were strong enough, I would have , and should have, put a smile on face and soldiered on with my reneging wife.

I say ironic because I saw the problem as a moral problem on her part involving sloth and lying. But no, I'm the bad guy. Minister : "Yah, you vill keep earning money at that horrible job so your wife can stay home and watch TV, and do volunteer work and find herself, and you vill  *like*  it!! Yah!"       
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 07:14:32 AM by slackmax »

Dicey

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #83 on: November 21, 2018, 08:30:03 AM »

Emotionally devastated by her leaving, since I still loved her although hated her at the same time. Also devastated emotionally by the loss of my money. (No, not 'our' money).  I did not want the divorce. I was willing to stay in the proverbial bad marriage.   

Our plan was that she would go back to work after our child was in school. I was OK with being the sole breadwinner until then, since raising the child at home with a mom is the best way, IMHO.  So yes, I 'enabled' that willingly.

But she never went back to work when the child was in school. All sorts of excuses. Lots of time to do volunteer work and 'find' herself. Meanwhile I was working in computer programming, which was very stressful, and she is having zero stress (other than angst over finding herself).

So she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

And she thought I was the bad guy for wanting her to be responsible and earn money, as she had agreed to do.     

   

This seems to be a pretty common situation, doesn't it? It was definitely a factor in my parents' divorce. I wonder if there may be a generational thing at play - a lot of women would have grown up in a single income household with a stay at home mom who never worked, and felt like that was a reasonable thing to expect in their own lives, since it was absolutely a cultural norm at the time they were growing up. And then times changed. Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder.

Zikoris,  It was ironic that when I went to my minister to talk about my divorce, he took the side of my wife, and said if I were strong enough, I would have , and should have, put a smile on face and soldiered on with my reneging wife.

I say ironic because I saw the problem as a moral problem on her part involving sloth and lying. But no, I'm the bad guy. Minister : "Yah, you vill keep earning money at that horrible job so your wife can stay home and watch TV, and do volunteer work and find herself, and you vill  *like*  it!! Yah!"       
Does she get any credit for raising a child and running a household or did she "fail" at that as well? Because staying at home is all soap operas and bonbons, as we all know.

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #84 on: November 21, 2018, 09:23:55 AM »
Divorce is hell.   I was forced into it after 26 years of marriage, two grown kids and I was a sahm.  I did it well, thought we were a good fit as he had a busy military career.  Thankfully I got just enough to pay the bills and healthcare but I’m still ironing out the finances as he destroyed those too. Alcoholic cheater, he dumped his whole family life to screw around and drink himself to death. 

Glad the number for divorces is so low, I won’t ever remarry again but I do want a boyfriend someday, still too soon to go looking, marriage ended last year, really enjoying my new freedom.  Kids are I are doing much better but it was the worse thing that ever happened to us by far. 

partgypsy

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #85 on: November 21, 2018, 09:33:28 AM »
@partgypsy That makes a bit more sense, hopefully it is also re-evaluated periodically so that if circumstances change the amount is adjusted.

yes in North carolina it is normally every three years but you can request a change sooner than that in extraordinary circumstances.

I was in a similar situation in they my husband earned less, up until the last 4,5 years of marriage he never earned more than 10K, even before kids. I was cool with it before kids and house (low expenses), and cool (and super appreciated it) when the kids were little. But once the kids were older and more independent, I brought up the idea of him picking up more hours (he only worked 2 days a week), with the idea I could segue to 32 hours, so I could have more work/life balance and quality family time. His response was: "but you're the breadwinner." He didn't want to change. He was super comfortable about the situation, and after he left I calculated and realized if you counted mornings and evenings (when I would get them to bed, get them up in the morning) and weekends (when he chose to work), not only was I working more work hours I was putting in more childcare hours as well (because the kids were in school most the time he had them).
Despite all that, when it comes time to separating property, and even though I was the only one saving for retirement, it doesn't matter. Everything is split down the middle.
Situation now, my financials are tight, and having 2 elderly pets (which he refuses to take care of) as well as an old house doesn't help with monthly costs. But as time goes on things WILL get better. And in 10 years time I will have a paid off house, and kids should be launched.

Ironically while he wasn't motivated when he was married, he is working more hours now (bills need to be paid, and he says his gf is "burnt out" at the restaurant so he often works her shifts). My ex may never totally feel the pain however. He is planning a nice vacation with her. After he goes through the divorce settlement money, at some point it is  pretty likely he will get an inheritance from his side of his family. When he was married that could have evened things up and helped out the entire family. Now will probably go towards his living expenses. It's possible he may grow up. But i'm not going to count on that.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 08:33:59 AM by partgypsy »

mm1970

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #86 on: November 21, 2018, 11:09:30 AM »
Quote
Emotionally devastated by her leaving, since I still loved her although hated her at the same time. Also devastated emotionally by the loss of my money. (No, not 'our' money).  I did not want the divorce. I was willing to stay in the proverbial bad marriage.   

Our plan was that she would go back to work after our child was in school. I was OK with being the sole breadwinner until then, since raising the child at home with a mom is the best way, IMHO.  So yes, I 'enabled' that willingly.

But she never went back to work when the child was in school. All sorts of excuses. Lots of time to do volunteer work and 'find' herself. Meanwhile I was working in computer programming, which was very stressful, and she is having zero stress (other than angst over finding herself).

So she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

And she thought I was the bad guy for wanting her to be responsible and earn money, as she had agreed to do.     

I am going to comment on this, in random order.

1.  It was not YOUR money.  Money earned while married is "OUR" money.  Especially since you made an agreement, as you say, that she stays home till the kid is in school.  Thus, it is not YOUR money.  It belongs to the FAMILY.

2.  Because you ended up divorcing, OF COURSE she gets some of "OUR" money.  I once chatted with a young man who didn't understand alimony at all "the contract is over!"  Like: duh, you renegotiate contracts all the time.

3.  People change and goals change.  Women who say they are going back to work choose instead to stay home, because they cannot leave their babies. Women whose kids go to school, find it difficult to find work that works around a school schedule.  News flash: there are millions of women out there with kids in school who want that schedule.  My experience with my friends is: GOOD LUCK finding a job like that - you are better off being AT a job and negotiating your hours downwards.

4.  Related to #3 - going back to work, in any job, is a hard transition once you've been home - and I really don't think a lot of primary wage earners (mostly men still these days) are really aware of it.  Assuming a part time job is not doable, and you end up with a full time - well hello, now HALF of the kid drop off and pick up will fall to you, no matter if you make more money.  Are you willing to bug out at 3 pm to pick up the kid every day?  Are you willing to find after school care at $450+ per month for after school care?  Are you willing to juggle laundry, sick kids, school holidays, doctor's appointments, grocery shopping, cooking, etc - fully doing half?

(Because I work full time and almost always have - with a brief 2.5 years total of "part time" 30-32 hours a week with the 2 kids.  So, my spouse and I have ALWAYS split drop off and pick up and chores and sick days.  For those who have not - it can be a REALLY HARD transition.)

I've read about other families where the man wanted the wife to go back to work after a certain time, and the wife didn't.  It was interesting to read the comments.  As expected, there were a large number of women (I'll call them "more traditional" women) who were sincerely offended at the idea that the husband was too selfish to allow the wife to stay at home and care for the family, and live her dream.  She was "meant" to do this.  I was one of the few who pointed out that it's a FAMILY, and no one person's needs trumps the others.  Perhaps carrying the full brunt of the financial income is too much?  What about what HE wants?  What if HE wanted to be a SAHD?  I'm sure people thought I had two heads.

I think this is one reason why divorce is more prevalent, and more acceptable.  A marriage really needs to work for both people.  It's complicated.  And people change in ways you can never expect.  My college boyfriend started talking about "Putting him first" and "compromise" and "following him" (he was a year older, we were both going into the Navy).  I realized that what he wanted me to do was to specifically pick a job in the Navy where we could mostly be stationed together.  That was never going to work for me - I had a career of my own to work towards.  I was independent and never planned on kids either.

That's how I was when I married my husband.  Fast forward 22 years later, and nobody could have predicted that I'd happily have two kids, know how to cook, and be domestic.  I still work (and anyone could have predicted that I wouldn't quit work, ha!)  But I am very different in many ways.

Milizard

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #87 on: November 21, 2018, 11:51:16 AM »
I'm trying to get back into the workforce after 5 years off. No one wants to hire me. It's absolutely ridiculous. I'd be better off if I were 22 and had never had a job. 

I have the best DH, and I want to relieve some of the stress he's been under being the sole breadwinner.  The thought of going back full-time is also intimidating  because I have 2 young children with irregular school schedules.  I remember how hard it was with both of us working ft and taking care of 2 babies.

I just wish employers would get their heads out of their asses for a few different reasons.

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #88 on: November 21, 2018, 12:08:45 PM »

Emotionally devastated by her leaving, since I still loved her although hated her at the same time. Also devastated emotionally by the loss of my money. (No, not 'our' money).  I did not want the divorce. I was willing to stay in the proverbial bad marriage.   

Our plan was that she would go back to work after our child was in school. I was OK with being the sole breadwinner until then, since raising the child at home with a mom is the best way, IMHO.  So yes, I 'enabled' that willingly.

But she never went back to work when the child was in school. All sorts of excuses. Lots of time to do volunteer work and 'find' herself. Meanwhile I was working in computer programming, which was very stressful, and she is having zero stress (other than angst over finding herself).

So she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

And she thought I was the bad guy for wanting her to be responsible and earn money, as she had agreed to do.     

   

This seems to be a pretty common situation, doesn't it? It was definitely a factor in my parents' divorce. I wonder if there may be a generational thing at play - a lot of women would have grown up in a single income household with a stay at home mom who never worked, and felt like that was a reasonable thing to expect in their own lives, since it was absolutely a cultural norm at the time they were growing up. And then times changed. Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder.

Zikoris,  It was ironic that when I went to my minister to talk about my divorce, he took the side of my wife, and said if I were strong enough, I would have , and should have, put a smile on face and soldiered on with my reneging wife.

I say ironic because I saw the problem as a moral problem on her part involving sloth and lying. But no, I'm the bad guy. Minister : "Yah, you vill keep earning money at that horrible job so your wife can stay home and watch TV, and do volunteer work and find herself, and you vill  *like*  it!! Yah!"       
Does she get any credit for raising a child and running a household or did she "fail" at that as well? Because staying at home is all soap operas and bonbons, as we all know.

He clearly stated his issue was her saying one thing and then not following through with it. It's also a major life changing decision. Your comment just comes off as being salty.

Dicey

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #89 on: November 21, 2018, 12:31:24 PM »

Emotionally devastated by her leaving, since I still loved her although hated her at the same time. Also devastated emotionally by the loss of my money. (No, not 'our' money).  I did not want the divorce. I was willing to stay in the proverbial bad marriage.   

Our plan was that she would go back to work after our child was in school. I was OK with being the sole breadwinner until then, since raising the child at home with a mom is the best way, IMHO.  So yes, I 'enabled' that willingly.

But she never went back to work when the child was in school. All sorts of excuses. Lots of time to do volunteer work and 'find' herself. Meanwhile I was working in computer programming, which was very stressful, and she is having zero stress (other than angst over finding herself).

So she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

And she thought I was the bad guy for wanting her to be responsible and earn money, as she had agreed to do.     

   

This seems to be a pretty common situation, doesn't it? It was definitely a factor in my parents' divorce. I wonder if there may be a generational thing at play - a lot of women would have grown up in a single income household with a stay at home mom who never worked, and felt like that was a reasonable thing to expect in their own lives, since it was absolutely a cultural norm at the time they were growing up. And then times changed. Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder.

Zikoris,  It was ironic that when I went to my minister to talk about my divorce, he took the side of my wife, and said if I were strong enough, I would have , and should have, put a smile on face and soldiered on with my reneging wife.

I say ironic because I saw the problem as a moral problem on her part involving sloth and lying. But no, I'm the bad guy. Minister : "Yah, you vill keep earning money at that horrible job so your wife can stay home and watch TV, and do volunteer work and find herself, and you vill  *like*  it!! Yah!"       
Does she get any credit for raising a child and running a household or did she "fail" at that as well? Because staying at home is all soap operas and bonbons, as we all know.

He clearly stated his issue was her saying one thing and then not following through with it. It's also a major life changing decision. Your comment just comes off as being salty.
Oh, if you read his original litany of complaints about her, you might see it's low-sodium at most. It was 100% sarcastic. Sorry you missed that, but tone, internet, blah x3.

Davin

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #90 on: November 21, 2018, 12:59:25 PM »
I got Married at age 30, the divorce was finalized when I was 40. It was one of the best financial moves I ever made. Sure it cost a few grand to have a lawyer advise me and review a few key documents (not retaining an attorney saved me a lot of $). I also wound up having to pay off about $65k of credit card debt she had racked up, but I was debt free within a short time even though I am low income, just by not paying for her spendypants lifestyle. Also, my happiness level has been consistently so much higher since then, and you can't put a price tag on that.

It was a weird experience to see someone change so much in a decade from someone I wanted to spend the rest of my life with to someone I would just as soon never see again. I have been with the same S.O. ever since and she is great both in the spending and personality categories. No plans for marriage right now, but you never know...

sparkytheop

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #91 on: November 21, 2018, 01:03:43 PM »
I wrote a response earlier this week, but it seems to have not made it through...

I was married young and divorced young, after the ex decided he did not want to deal with the stresses of having a family anymore.  So, he bailed.  I was in school full-time, working 30+ hours a week, while he was in construction (laid off for 5 months, and 7 months, during our four year marriage).

The divorce cost me $600.  I paid it all myself.  It was more expensive to get my son his passport (no one could locate his father to sign paperwork, so had to get a lawyer and a judgement/court document to obtain the passport without ex's signature/consent).

Financially-- it was actually easier without him.  When he wasn't working, he started smoking again (he'd quit when the baby was born), and drinking heavily-- at home, and "with friends".  He'd go to the liquor store and get $100 in hard alcohol, to take to his cousin's house to party with.  The other people were mostly underage, so he always bought the alcohol.  If they ever paid him back for it, I never saw the money.  Paying the bills and credit cards was a challenge every month, and ended up in me having to rob from the savings account (that I started as a fifth grader, when I got my first job.  So, when you think about it, a former 11 year old was having to fund his lifestyle.)  When he left, I knew exactly what the credit card bill would be (this was before you could just look up the account online and see every purchase).  I could prioritize every dollar myself.  I wasn't getting child support yet, but the financial burden was much reduced, even though I was now paying the full mortgage on the house (that I had signed over to him, but he wouldn't refinance or pay the mortgage, so eventually we solved it by him just signing it back over to me).

Life was hard as a single mom, and still can be (although my son is now and adult and in college).  But, no regrets.  The path my life was heading as someone married to an alcoholic spendthrift is not one I'd want to live for long.

My income doubled the year I graduated.  I had already been maxing my retirement (then, max was a percentage of your income, not a dollar limit), so continued to do so for years.

Not sure if I'd ever marry again.  If I did, it would require a good match and a good pre-nup.  My retirement will go to my son, not a future spouse (have already filed the form that would over-ride any will, marriage, or "order of beneficiaries" to make sure of that, before it would require a spouse's signature to release their interest).  My son is the one who suffered through the hard times with me, not some possible future spouse.  I may be willing to give up 5% of my pension to set future spouse up with a survival annuity, but that isn't so bad.

I have property where I plan to build and die.  Any future spouse would not inherit that either, it would go to my son as well, though I wouldn't want to have the spouse kicked off the land.  Would have to have a legal agreement for that as well.

Or, I may just die alone and still happy :)  I already have my plans for that scenario, and they don't look to bad, health willing.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 01:06:55 PM by sparkytheop »

Helvegen

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #92 on: November 21, 2018, 05:07:03 PM »
Been married 14 years. Unfortunately, neither one of our countries offer a BF/GF You Figure It Out Visa, so we very quickly decided to get married. Once I made the choice to marry, I was never so sure of anything being so correct in my entire life and probably still haven't till this very day.

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #93 on: November 22, 2018, 10:30:27 AM »
I went to college while I was home with my kids and it wasn’t easy finding a job when I graduated.  But once I got my first p.t. Job in my field after 4 years I was able to find full time work.   My husband had a long commute and worked lots of overtime so the 3 kids were totally my responsibility. Thankfully we bought the house next door to my parents so I had after school care.   All of my friends went back to work once the kids were in school. People in the medical field found jobs the fastest.

okits

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #94 on: November 24, 2018, 10:18:37 PM »
I'm trying to get back into the workforce after 5 years off. No one wants to hire me. It's absolutely ridiculous. I'd be better off if I were 22 and had never had a job. 

I have the best DH, and I want to relieve some of the stress he's been under being the sole breadwinner.  The thought of going back full-time is also intimidating  because I have 2 young children with irregular school schedules.  I remember how hard it was with both of us working ft and taking care of 2 babies.

I just wish employers would get their heads out of their asses for a few different reasons.

@Milizard - good luck, I hope you find something soon.  I have just re-entered the workforce after a few years out (kids and health) and it is tough for many reasons.  As usual, @mm1970 knows what she's talking about:

Women whose kids go to school, find it difficult to find work that works around a school schedule.  News flash: there are millions of women out there with kids in school who want that schedule.  My experience with my friends is: GOOD LUCK finding a job like that - you are better off being AT a job and negotiating your hours downwards.

Holy crap, yes.  Almost every primary parent of young kids wants part time work hours that are during school and regular daycare hours.  I have been VERY fortunate to find a job like this but it took a long time and no small amount of luck.

4.  Related to #3 - going back to work, in any job, is a hard transition once you've been home - and I really don't think a lot of primary wage earners (mostly men still these days) are really aware of it.  Assuming a part time job is not doable, and you end up with a full time - well hello, now HALF of the kid drop off and pick up will fall to you, no matter if you make more money.  Are you willing to bug out at 3 pm to pick up the kid every day?  Are you willing to find after school care at $450+ per month for after school care?  Are you willing to juggle laundry, sick kids, school holidays, doctor's appointments, grocery shopping, cooking, etc - fully doing half?

(Because I work full time and almost always have - with a brief 2.5 years total of "part time" 30-32 hours a week with the 2 kids.  So, my spouse and I have ALWAYS split drop off and pick up and chores and sick days.  For those who have not - it can be a REALLY HARD transition.)

I'm in my first month back in paid employment and it is a hard transition.  Even though I'm working part time hours after dropping off and picking up kids, figuring out what the family is going to eat, making sure everyone is dressed in clean and appropriate clothing, trying to keep the home from being a complete disaster, and trying to do a good job while at the office, I am TIRED.  My spouse knows he will have to cover some of the kids' sick days because there will be important things at work I just can't miss.  He cooks and cleans, too, but there's still a lot for me to do.  I have already instituted that one night a week is going to be takeaway night and that we will outsource other things, if needed. 

I've read about other families where the man wanted the wife to go back to work after a certain time, and the wife didn't.  It was interesting to read the comments.  As expected, there were a large number of women (I'll call them "more traditional" women) who were sincerely offended at the idea that the husband was too selfish to allow the wife to stay at home and care for the family, and live her dream.  She was "meant" to do this.  I was one of the few who pointed out that it's a FAMILY, and no one person's needs trumps the others.  Perhaps carrying the full brunt of the financial income is too much?  What about what HE wants?  What if HE wanted to be a SAHD?  I'm sure people thought I had two heads.

I think this is one reason why divorce is more prevalent, and more acceptable.  A marriage really needs to work for both people.  It's complicated.  And people change in ways you can never expect. 

I really, really agree with the bolded part.  DH and I originally envisioned I would continue to be in the workforce even after we had children.  For medical reasons the parenting and caregiving needs in our family have exploded and it would now be easier if I didn't have a job outside the home.  We settled on my having a PT job; I'll have the fulfillment of a career while still being a significant support person in the family.  I really hope it works out the way we envision.  Things do change and I think family decisions (compromises!) need to be made with everyone's wants in mind. 

slackmax

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #95 on: November 29, 2018, 09:15:49 AM »

Emotionally devastated by her leaving, since I still loved her although hated her at the same time. Also devastated emotionally by the loss of my money. (No, not 'our' money).  I did not want the divorce. I was willing to stay in the proverbial bad marriage.   

Our plan was that she would go back to work after our child was in school. I was OK with being the sole breadwinner until then, since raising the child at home with a mom is the best way, IMHO.  So yes, I 'enabled' that willingly.

But she never went back to work when the child was in school. All sorts of excuses. Lots of time to do volunteer work and 'find' herself. Meanwhile I was working in computer programming, which was very stressful, and she is having zero stress (other than angst over finding herself).

So she didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

And she thought I was the bad guy for wanting her to be responsible and earn money, as she had agreed to do.     

   

This seems to be a pretty common situation, doesn't it? It was definitely a factor in my parents' divorce. I wonder if there may be a generational thing at play - a lot of women would have grown up in a single income household with a stay at home mom who never worked, and felt like that was a reasonable thing to expect in their own lives, since it was absolutely a cultural norm at the time they were growing up. And then times changed. Pure speculation, but it does make me wonder.

Zikoris,  It was ironic that when I went to my minister to talk about my divorce, he took the side of my wife, and said if I were strong enough, I would have , and should have, put a smile on face and soldiered on with my reneging wife.

I say ironic because I saw the problem as a moral problem on her part involving sloth and lying. But no, I'm the bad guy. Minister : "Yah, you vill keep earning money at that horrible job so your wife can stay home and watch TV, and do volunteer work and find herself, and you vill  *like*  it!! Yah!"       
Does she get any credit for raising a child and running a household or did she "fail" at that as well? Because staying at home is all soap operas and bonbons, as we all know.

Yes, she gets major credit for raising a child.  She was a very good STAHM. Raised a well-behaved child. Always had a good dinner waiting for me when I got home from the hell of work. But I never got praised for getting up at 5 am every morning, driving an hour to the stress-cauldron, then driving another hour home , exhausted. Anyone in IT knows the drill (yeah, I know, there the few who are brilliant and actually enjoy it, but not me!). She took for granted I was just supposed to go through hell since I was the man, and I was supposed to like it, and if not, then I must not really love her.

Looking back, had I changed careers I might have stayed married. After the divorce I got into long haul truck driving which I did actually enjoy, and I made 2/3 of my former programming salary.  Who knows, maybe being away from her all the time, being less miserable from my job, and being worth less money to her in a divorce, she would have stuck around, lol.....     

 
 
 
 
 
 


     

partgypsy

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #96 on: November 29, 2018, 11:21:28 AM »
Sparky the op I enjoy your posts! You have a very can-do attitude. When I first going through the break up of the marriage, the  prospect of a broken and split family and being single the rest of my life was depressing and lonely. But as time goes on, one finds any situation there are both drawbacks AND benefits. And it has been a good thing rediscovering all the benefits of being single, including time for myself.  And it IS a good feeling to know, I can take care of myself. I draw inspiration from my grandmother and two great grandmothers, all whom became widowed when young with children. One did re-marry. The other two remained widowed but were amazing kick-ass people, running a farm, raising children, taking care of the homestead, living through a war, without a man. I just have to think of them and realize I have it easy compared to what they went through. 

Sparky, my ex was a smoker, did quit when I was pregnant with the first, but a few years ago, maybe a year before he left started smoking again. And he drinks every day; when we were together maybe about 1/8 of our grocery budget was for beer and this does not include him going out for drinks.   
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 11:28:27 AM by partgypsy »

sparkytheop

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Re: Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married
« Reply #97 on: November 29, 2018, 11:38:33 AM »
@partgypsy   Thank you :)  It hasn't always been easy, but I'm pretty happy and content now.  I thought the transition to doing "everything" completely by myself (movies, travel, restaurants, concerts, theater, etc-- before I always had my son to take with me) would be harder than it has been.  Now I do all of that all by myself, and only going to a restaurant by myself sometimes feels "weird". 

My mom is one of those who can do everything, so she's been a great role model.  Tough farm girl stock, lol.