Poll: Married, Divorced, Never married

[One]

I was curious how the divorce rate on this forum compares to the general population. If you're divorced did you take a big financial hit and is there anyone who regretted the divorce a few years later? Was the divorce related to your Mustachian lifestyle?

[nessness]

I don't remember if you can edit polls on here, but if you can you should add options for widow(ers).

[YttriumNitrate]

I was curious how the divorce rate on this forum compares to the general population. If you're divorced did you take a big financial hit and is there anyone who regretted the divorce a few years later? Was the divorce related to your Mustachian lifestyle?

A lot probably depends on how you define "general population." Based on the 70 or so responses at the time I write this post, it looks like there is about 20% divorce rate among this forum, which put forum goers right in line for first time marriages among college educated couples...but far better than the US population as a whole.

[Sailor Sam]

Life mated, then married when it became legal.

[Raenia]

Married never divorced - but to be fair, I've only been married for about 4 months.

[SimpleCycle]

I got married when I was 23, divorced when I was 27, and remarried when I was 31.  DW and I have been married for seven years and it's totally different from my first marriage in terms of shared goals and teamwork.

The divorce was a short term financial hit but a long term boon.  XH was a spendthrift and not future focused at all.  After years of holding our finances together with duct tape and string, I was a total financial mess during and after the divorce, and suffered from a period of "nothing long term matters" where I made a lot of less than wise financial decisions.  Picking up the pieces really sucked, but taught me a lot of the things about money that have led to longer term stability and prosperity.

[SKL-HOU]

Married/divorced twice. The first one, zero impact. The second one financial hit was the lawyer fees and having a kid (no child support until recently when I went back to have CS adjusted so more lawyer fees). Overall, the main financial impact is having a child, not the divorce as we both walked away with what we came with (plus a kid for me).

[Mississippi Mudstache]

Married 8-1/2 years, never divorced. Can't imagine life any other way.

[haflander]

OP, I haven't yet married but plan to at some point. These may answer some of your original ?s; I learned a lot from the responses.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/how-did-marryingdivorcing-a-working-spendypants-partner-affect-your-finances/msg2075423/#msg2075423

[wageslave23]

I'm guessing the divorce rates will be a little lower than the general population just because of the demographics of the forum users... more educated, higher incomes, younger, etc.

[Omy]

Divorced a spendypants after 14 years of marriage. Different life goals, no regrets. Lived with current husband for 5 years before marrying him (married 10+ years and counting). Growing net worth is much easier when you're both on the same page.

[thesis]

Young-ish single guy here, never married. Money has always mattered to me and I've always been cautious of women who were demonstrably bad with money, but now that the quest for FI has taken over, I'm especially cautious. I don't expect to find a woman who necessarily shares my specific goals right now, but she should be open to them and have good financial discipline. Of course, marriage is more than finances and the strength and health of the marriage should come first, but money is a big deal. I'm hoping FI will help when I do get married, I'd be really interested in hearing stories of whether that has been true or not :)

[katscratch]

Divorced and took a big financial hit. We would have easily had $1m networth by 30 if we'd stayed together. He is the ultimate mustachian - frugal, hardworking, loves learning new trades so can DIY just about anything. He's not likely to retire from paid jobs any time soon but hasn't needed a full time job in years and years. So glad my kiddo has him in his life!

Neither of us were spendy by any means and we're both pretty anti-consumerism. I however took on debt as part of our divorce agreenment, then for medical bills and going back to school, and am still digging myself out of that hole. 

[ThriftyStashMan]

Divorced after a long-term marriage. Ended up with sole custody of 3 kids - not a financial hit as I ended up with the home and all the money. Kids are out of the house and in college now. Looking to remarry someday - still trying to figure out the dating piece. FI here but RE isn't of interest now. This might change and I might pull the plug on working full time if I find the right person. Seems to be a small community of single women who drink the mustachian kool aide. 

[marty998]

Never married, now a little worried about net asset disparity if I do get married one day.

Young-ish

I winced at this word. At 32 can I no longer describe myself as young?

[Chrissy]

At $1,500, the divorce was a bargain compared to the ex-husband!  He cost me $60k in one year of marriage.

Current Husband is a stable human being AND great with money.

[Imma]

I will likely get married next year after living together for 5 years. Both our parents are divorced and had marital problems related to money management. Because of that, we've always been very open about money, life goals etc and as we've lived together for 5 years and have owned a joint property for over 3 years, we are both confident that marriage will work out for us. Well, actually, we're as certain as we can be, but we're also realistic: divorce is always possible. That's why we're working on a rock solid pre-nup. I think everyone should have that (provided it's legally possible where you live): right now, we love each other, that's why our division of assets is very fair. If we would ever divorce, chances are one of us might not be interested in handling things the fair way. With a solid pre-nup, you can prevent that mess and get a clean break.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

At $1,500, the divorce was a bargain compared to the ex-husband!  He cost me $60k in one year of marriage.

Current Husband is a stable human being AND great with money.

Win-win! I can say the same for my wife.

[Cassie]

Divorced twice and married now. 2nd marriage took a huge financial hit as he hid most of the  money, and a few years later retired. I had to start over. Now I have been with my DH happily for 20 years. 

[calimom]

I guess we widowed folk should just go hide in a corner. No polls for you! (said in Soup Nazi voice)

[Jim Fiction]

Currently married to my 1st wife. It is actually only a few days away from our 4 year anniversary (well the anniversary of one of our weddings!).

[Paul der Krake]

Never married, now a little worried about net asset disparity if I do get married one day.

Young-ish

I winced at this word. At 32 can I no longer describe myself as young?

Only marry up, duh.

[partgypsy]

Divorced. Financially the divorce was a hit, and I'm currently taking a hit living holding down a household with 1 contributor versus two contributors (especially as had some large house expenses the last couple years). Strangely enough I have less anxiety about money issues now, than I did before. Go figure.   ETA: I don't think my interest in personal finance contributed to divorce; I'm not super mustachian and money wasn't a main conflict in our relationship. I did want him to work more days but we still managed since he wasn't a big spender either. We did have personal differences in that I like making plans and goals and he was adverse to that.

[Zikoris]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

[Imma]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

One of the reasons we're getting married is the practical reason of travelling to places where living together is not as accepted as it is in our country. I don't mean places like Iran; there are actually many countries where a non-married partner is not allowed to make medical decisions etc for the other because they're legally not next of kin. That's just not something we'd want to risk.

[mrmoonymartian]

I put never married although I've previously had a de facto spouse. In Australia de facto is treated a lot like de jure for many things. Marriage probably has an edge if kids are involved though.

[hops]

Both my wife and I grew up thinking legal marriage would never be an option for us, and then the Supreme Court said otherwise and here we are, as married and boring as anyone else.

[dude]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

Me too, and I'm married!! :-o  If it doesn't work out, I'd never consider doing it again, ever. It's a terrible arrangement, bringing the coercive power of the state to bear on a personal relationship. It's anachronistic, a relic of the bygone days when women did not work. Only a fool would fall for it . . .

[partgypsy]

I'm not anti-marriage. But I would have to feel very positive about the person and our relationship if I ever would do it again. Anti-marriage people may want as an exercise to explore their feelings why they at anti marriage. No judgement. For myself when I was young, I was anti marriage because heck I went through a semi punk period plus my parents got divorced, and so I had negative connotations about it. But at the same time as time goes on, knowing family members and friends who were married and stayed together, they are very functional and stable people who brought out the best in each other. They are role models. People knowing someone has their back, in a way that only family can, is a very positive life-affirming thing. We live in a pretty disposable and me-first type culture so I am realistic that divorce/never getting married rates will only continue to rise.

While I have gone through cynical periods due to my divorce, at the same time I'm not going to condemn the idea of marriage based on my experience on my one marriage.   

[coppertop]

Was married at age 21, three kids.  Divorced at 42.  He decided the Lord was calling him to ministry and that lifestyle didn't include, for him, me as a wife nor the three kids.  I was not "pastor's wife material." Kids were inconvenient to have.  I couldn't make this stuff up.  He quit his job; we had to sell the house.  Judge awarded me 60% of the house proceeds and 80% of the retirement money, since he was only "able" to provide us with $100 a week combined child support and alimony.  We are talking a guy with an MBA.  I had to start over; bought a townhouse with the house proceeds, got a job (I'd been a SAHM).  Huge financial hit.  However, I got all the kids through high school, they put themselves through college with minimal help, and all have advanced degrees.  DD has a Ph.D., older son a J.D., younger son a Master's.  All are gainfully employed.  It was a hugely painful and difficult time for all of us, but today all, including myself, are happily married and doing well. 

[I'm a red panda]

Was married at age 21, three kids.  Divorced at 42.  He decided the Lord was calling him to ministry and that lifestyle didn't include, for him, me as a wife nor the three kids.  I was not "pastor's wife material." Kids were inconvenient to have.  I couldn't make this stuff up.  He quit his job; we had to sell the house.  Judge awarded me 60% of the house proceeds and 80% of the retirement money, since he was only "able" to provide us with $100 a week combined child support and alimony.  We are talking a guy with an MBA.  I had to start over; bought a townhouse with the house proceeds, got a job (I'd been a SAHM).  Huge financial hit.  However, I got all the kids through high school, they put themselves through college with minimal help, and all have advanced degrees.  DD has a Ph.D., older son a J.D., younger son a Master's.  All are gainfully employed.  It was a hugely painful and difficult time for all of us, but today all, including myself, are happily married and doing well.

Pretty amazing the Lord called him to drop his wife and kids...

Great job on raising the kids!

[coppertop]

Was married at age 21, three kids.  Divorced at 42.  He decided the Lord was calling him to ministry and that lifestyle didn't include, for him, me as a wife nor the three kids.  I was not "pastor's wife material." Kids were inconvenient to have.  I couldn't make this stuff up.  He quit his job; we had to sell the house.  Judge awarded me 60% of the house proceeds and 80% of the retirement money, since he was only "able" to provide us with $100 a week combined child support and alimony.  We are talking a guy with an MBA.  I had to start over; bought a townhouse with the house proceeds, got a job (I'd been a SAHM).  Huge financial hit.  However, I got all the kids through high school, they put themselves through college with minimal help, and all have advanced degrees.  DD has a Ph.D., older son a J.D., younger son a Master's.  All are gainfully employed.  It was a hugely painful and difficult time for all of us, but today all, including myself, are happily married and doing well.

Pretty amazing the Lord called him to drop his wife and kids...

Great job on raising the kids!

Thanks!  I think my ex has mental problems. When I asked him how he justified wanting a divorce based on what Christ said about divorce, his answer?  "Our sins are forgiven before we commit them."  I could write a book, LOL!  So bizarre.  So he eventually met a woman who makes more than a quarter of a million a year and married her; he hardly works.  I think that may have been his secret agenda all along.  Good riddance.  We are all stronger in the end for having gone through all of that.

[Zikoris]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

One of the reasons we're getting married is the practical reason of travelling to places where living together is not as accepted as it is in our country. I don't mean places like Iran; there are actually many countries where a non-married partner is not allowed to make medical decisions etc for the other because they're legally not next of kin. That's just not something we'd want to risk.

It seems like it would be pretty easy to lie. Nobody actually brings their marriage certificate with them on vacation, do they?

[I'm a red panda]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

One of the reasons we're getting married is the practical reason of travelling to places where living together is not as accepted as it is in our country. I don't mean places like Iran; there are actually many countries where a non-married partner is not allowed to make medical decisions etc for the other because they're legally not next of kin. That's just not something we'd want to risk.

It seems like it would be pretty easy to lie. Nobody actually brings their marriage certificate with them on vacation, do they?

I originally didn't change my name when I got married, and had so much trouble with it when we traveled (sometimes even within the US) that I eventually gave in and changed it.  Might not have a marriage certificate, but they usually ask to see ID.

[partgypsy]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

One of the reasons we're getting married is the practical reason of travelling to places where living together is not as accepted as it is in our country. I don't mean places like Iran; there are actually many countries where a non-married partner is not allowed to make medical decisions etc for the other because they're legally not next of kin. That's just not something we'd want to risk.

It seems like it would be pretty easy to lie. Nobody actually brings their marriage certificate with them on vacation, do they?

Checking into a hotel, yes just lie and say you are married. If partner is in hospital unconscious, no the hospital will want to see paperwork. There are rules they have to follow.

[DeskJockey2028]

Married over 18 years now, and wouldn't change a thing.

[Zikoris]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

One of the reasons we're getting married is the practical reason of travelling to places where living together is not as accepted as it is in our country. I don't mean places like Iran; there are actually many countries where a non-married partner is not allowed to make medical decisions etc for the other because they're legally not next of kin. That's just not something we'd want to risk.

It seems like it would be pretty easy to lie. Nobody actually brings their marriage certificate with them on vacation, do they?

Checking into a hotel, yes just lie and say you are married. If partner is in hospital unconscious, no the hospital will want to see paperwork. There are rules they have to follow.

Again, I would be shocked if most married people had their marriage certificate with them while travelling - if they were living there, yes, but on vacation? No way. I am sure basically anywhere in the world if a foreign couple showed up at a hospital needing urgent care, them saying they were married would suffice.

[Imma]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

One of the reasons we're getting married is the practical reason of travelling to places where living together is not as accepted as it is in our country. I don't mean places like Iran; there are actually many countries where a non-married partner is not allowed to make medical decisions etc for the other because they're legally not next of kin. That's just not something we'd want to risk.

It seems like it would be pretty easy to lie. Nobody actually brings their marriage certificate with them on vacation, do they?

Checking into a hotel, yes just lie and say you are married. If partner is in hospital unconscious, no the hospital will want to see paperwork. There are rules they have to follow.

Again, I would be shocked if most married people had their marriage certificate with them while travelling - if they were living there, yes, but on vacation? No way. I am sure basically anywhere in the world if a foreign couple showed up at a hospital needing urgent care, them saying they were married would suffice.

In our country, marital status is declared on our IDs. So yes, pretty easy to prove whether you're married or not. In our country he is my partner and legally my next  of kin, but other countries do not necessarily recognize that.

If you show up at urgent care of course you will get medical care, but it's illegal in most countries to give medical info to someone who's not next of kin. In my previous job I was involved in a case like that - after the person sadly passed away, the partner also had difficulty bringing the body home. Yes, those are exceptional cases, but they do happen.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

One of the reasons we're getting married is the practical reason of travelling to places where living together is not as accepted as it is in our country. I don't mean places like Iran; there are actually many countries where a non-married partner is not allowed to make medical decisions etc for the other because they're legally not next of kin. That's just not something we'd want to risk.

It seems like it would be pretty easy to lie. Nobody actually brings their marriage certificate with them on vacation, do they?

Checking into a hotel, yes just lie and say you are married. If partner is in hospital unconscious, no the hospital will want to see paperwork. There are rules they have to follow.

Again, I would be shocked if most married people had their marriage certificate with them while travelling - if they were living there, yes, but on vacation? No way. I am sure basically anywhere in the world if a foreign couple showed up at a hospital needing urgent care, them saying they were married would suffice.

You're probably not planning on travelling to Saudi Arabia, but I have friends who got legally married before one of them began working in Saudi Arabia, just so his s.o. would be allowed to visit him. She had a tough time crossing the border, even with her marriage certificate, because she was travelling unaccompanied. They got married "for real" about 5 years later back in their home country (Norway). Not trying to persuade you to marry, but I am pointing out that there are locations where a marriage certificate would be required for you to even cross the border with your partner.

[partgypsy]

I am pretty anti-marriage in general. I don't anticipate ever marrying, barring some extremely compelling reason. Living in sin, with separate finances, is 100% awesome.

One of the reasons we're getting married is the practical reason of travelling to places where living together is not as accepted as it is in our country. I don't mean places like Iran; there are actually many countries where a non-married partner is not allowed to make medical decisions etc for the other because they're legally not next of kin. That's just not something we'd want to risk.

It seems like it would be pretty easy to lie. Nobody actually brings their marriage certificate with them on vacation, do they?

Checking into a hotel, yes just lie and say you are married. If partner is in hospital unconscious, no the hospital will want to see paperwork. There are rules they have to follow.

Again, I would be shocked if most married people had their marriage certificate with them while travelling - if they were living there, yes, but on vacation? No way. I am sure basically anywhere in the world if a foreign couple showed up at a hospital needing urgent care, them saying they were married would suffice.

Not that you are going to be denied care, just that you cannot make any medical decisions for that person (they would try to contact the partner's parents) and possibly not allow you to visit, depending on how strict they are with their rules.  I work in a US hospital and that is true for the US; would be surprised if they were less strict in other countries. It is a remote chance (and not enough of a motivation to get married over!) but it's real.

Also depending on where you travel and what level of accomodation (less likely for expensive places) yes they may also ask for a wedding certificate to book a room. It's not as common as 20 years ago, and depends on where you  travel (Muslim countries, India are higher likelihood). 

When I traveled 20+ years ago with my college sweetheart, we were often asked if married when checking in (we said yes), but they did not demand a marriage certificate. And I noticed even places where we were not asked if married they would write in register (Mr. and Mrs (boyfriend's last name) so possibly there were still rules on the books they had to follow. These were places in Europe.  I have no idea how they treat same sex couples.

[hops]

Medical rights were one of our reasons for getting married. My in-laws are religious zealots who kicked my wife out of their house after learning she was gay. So she had a brief homeless stint in high school until an unrelated adult shamed them into letting her move back in. Only recently -- she's in her early thirties now -- has her dad stopped telling her she's going to hell.

We would never in a million years trust them to recognize my standing as her partner had we remained unmarried and she ever found herself gravely ill or injured. Additionally, their opinions on end-of-life issues are much different than hers.

A lawyer could've tackled some of our concerns, sure, but a marriage license was easier. For $50 or so, we were given access to something like 1,000+ legal protections and benefits. Even if her parents had been more accepting, we would not have left anything to chance because treatment of same-sex couples in hospital settings can vary wildly.

[honeybbq]

Never married, but partnered in a long term (>10years) relationship with combined finances and kids.  He's divorced and we never really cared about getting married. Just moved in together and shared everything. We have been very careful to be on the house together, have wills, POAs, etc. All our paperwork ducks in a row.

The only thing I really can't get out of the deal is the shared social security should it ever be needed, but both of us are past the second bend in the SS curve so we are splitting hairs there.

We've saved a LOT the many years we've been together by filing our taxes as single. Both high income earners, we'd be penalized over 10k a year to be married filing jointly. I claim the house, he claims the kids, etc. It works. 2018 filing might be different though, will have to see...

My spouse's first wife was a complete drain on his finances. He got divorced owing money and very little to his name after splitting the retirement accounts. We now have more than 7 figure net worth. It's all about having a similar mind set to being able to accomplish good things.

We've also traveled around the world together and never, ever been asked to prove we were married.

[Laserjet3051]

Thomas Stanley's "Millionaire Next Door" was all I needed to convince me that I needed to invest "whatever it took" to keep my marriage successful. The alternative, as Stanley documents, statistically, was a road I prefer not to travel down. So long as success is within my control, the argument to stay married is quite compelling.

[Imma]

We would never in a million years trust them to recognize my standing as her partner had we remained unmarried and she ever found herself gravely ill or injured. Additionally, their opinions on end-of-life issues are much different than hers.

A lawyer could've tackled some of our concerns, sure, but a marriage license was easier. For $50 or so, we were given access to something like 1,000+ legal protections and benefits. Even if her parents had been more accepting, we would not have left anything to chance because treatment of same-sex couples in hospital settings can vary wildly.

In our own country, unmarried partners have the same legal rights as married couples (actually constitutually you can't discriminate against unmarried couples) but some of our parents think like your wife's parents and that's why we had rock solid documents written up about 1,5 years into the relationship. We'd experienced meddling parents in a hospital setting by then, although I was fully conscious at the time. We knew then we could never trust our parents with those type of decisions and they'd always try to interfere.

As legal, unmarried partners we file our taxes jointly and this saves us tons of money every year. In our tax system, filing jointly is almost always beneficial to both partners.

[LifePhaseTwo]

I’ve never been divorced, but my husband has. His first wife was a spendypants, he was not quite a Mustachian but was a reasonably careful spender, and this was one of the reasons their marriage broke down. He suffered financially in the divorce, but was unwilling to fight for his financial rights because he didn’t want their daughters to suffer through a long drawn-out acrimonious divorce. So when I met him he had no savings, but that didn’t matter to me. We’ve been together 12 years now, and the girls are happy, healthy, and awesome, as are our beloved granddaughters.

[sisto]

Medical rights were one of our reasons for getting married. My in-laws are religious zealots who kicked my wife out of their house after learning she was gay. So she had a brief homeless stint in high school until an unrelated adult shamed them into letting her move back in. Only recently -- she's in her early thirties now -- has her dad stopped telling her she's going to hell.

We would never in a million years trust them to recognize my standing as her partner had we remained unmarried and she ever found herself gravely ill or injured. Additionally, their opinions on end-of-life issues are much different than hers.

A lawyer could've tackled some of our concerns, sure, but a marriage license was easier. For $50 or so, we were given access to something like 1,000+ legal protections and benefits. Even if her parents had been more accepting, we would not have left anything to chance because treatment of same-sex couples in hospital settings can vary wildly.

Medical rights, Social Security, and Married filing jointly were definitely worth it for us. When it became legal in 2008 we went to the local annex office down the street in board shorts and tuxedo t-shirts. The local Sheriffs were there just in case and got a real kick out of it. We had already been together for nearly 20 years at that point so it was just a piece of paper to make it legal. I sure did enjoy getting to file back taxes and getting $12K back. I'm also really happy that my wife will be able to receive my Social Security too. She made the sacrifice to stay at home with the kids which allowed me to make good money.

[oldladystache]

In the past few weeks my dad has been in and out of two hospitals and one nursing home. I said I was his daughter and they all accepted that with no mention of proof.

[SimpleCycle]

People should do whatever works for them marriage wise, but please be sure to get your legal ducks in a row with regards to health care proxies/POAs in your home country.  "I'm going to say I'm their spouse" is not a plan in a real conflict between family of origin and current partner about medical decisions.

That said, I don't think it's worth planning your life around rare instances in countries you travel to infrequently.  I've traveled to countries where my marriage is not recognized because we're a same sex couple.  Also, we definitely do travel with our documents (kids' birth certificates, marriage certificate, second parent adoption paperwork) because people are less likely to take our word for it that we are a couple and both parents of our children.

[LibrarianFuzz]

Divorced.

Ex-husband was a spendypants with a secret financial life. Enormous amounts of hidden debt, multiple credit cards, personal loans, internet loans (didn't even know that was a thing.)

Wake up call was three months after the wedding. I checked the mail and found the letter from the IRS about all the back taxes he owed.

He laughed and told me not to worry about it.

Divorce was shortly thereafter. I paid for everything. I gave him a large amount of cash to leave my home peacefully.

Wouldn't do marriage again.

[Cassie]

We married because we wanted to but about 9 years later DH got laid off and couldn't find a job. I put him on my insurance. At the time we couldn't have done that without being married so probably would have married then. He had cancer so it was imperative that he had no break in insurance.