Author Topic: Please help me help my parents  (Read 73154 times)

TomTX

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #450 on: December 19, 2023, 02:13:09 PM »
Pretty sure you need to swap to a variant like Ungoogled Chromium

https://github.com/ungoogled-software/ungoogled-chromium

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #451 on: December 20, 2023, 10:04:23 AM »
In case anyone else is going through this type of BS with parents, I found this particular video helpful to my thinking. I had to watch it at 1.25 speed as he speaks too slowly for my attention span, but then it was about perfect.

The five things he talks about totally hit the nail on the head for all three of the elderly people I'm dealing with (Mom, Dad, and SM).

My Mom is queen of the inappropriate and embarrassing stories from childhood and repeatedly doing things that are obviously hurtful to anyone with an ounce of common sense. Then she'll act surprised or saying she doesn't remember or that she never said that/did that/doesn't know it's inappropriate or hurtful/it's not a big deal anyway. And if you ask her to stop doing a very specific thing or please not do it again, 100% she will do it again first opportunity she has. And she'll also tell stories forever after you tell her something was hurtful about how she did it or said it and how she was the hero in the story. So it's a bizarre dichotomy of denial it happened and then repetition through stories or doing it again and again.

Because of this, I can barely cope with her. Thankfully my brother who lives closest to her makes sure she is okay, although she is periodically awful to him and just won't stop doing things after he has said "please stop, that is destructive/that hurts my feelings/that is not how we treat our children." And then she flies into a rage and then victim mode right after. And then she'll make up stories about how the person is not upset by her, but by something else. The most recent time she told me that my brother must be having trouble in his marriage because he got upset when she was talking to him. Could it be that how you were acting was actually what upset him, Mom? Nope, no chance, I didn't do anything, he must be having trouble with his marriage. Brother has been married for 25+ years and has the strongest partnership with a spouse I have ever seen, but that is her default tale when he is upset because she is acting like a loon.

Dad and SM love to take people's money under false pretenses and SM especially is the queen of being the victim in every scenario. They both will gleefully talk about how crazy Mom is, but they are blameless saints who never did anything to anybody. They all "play dumb" all the time. But ask anyone: they are all much smarter than normal people. The smartest.

And NONE of them will EVER take even a grain of personal responsibility. None. I literally had to learn the phrase "I accept responsibility for this mistake" by watching people I admire at my current employer say it. So there you go.

Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwvXFTwPHtc
« Last Edit: December 20, 2023, 01:45:22 PM by Zamboni »

Laura33

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #452 on: December 20, 2023, 11:02:12 AM »
The five things he talks about totally hit the nail on the head for all three of the elderly people I'm dealing with (Mom, Dad, and SM).

So what you're saying is your dad continues to choose what he's used to, for whatever reason. 

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #453 on: December 20, 2023, 11:54:25 AM »
Yes, gosh, that's it!

iluvzbeach

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #454 on: December 20, 2023, 01:04:52 PM »
@Zamboni, there is a podcast I spent quite a bit of time listening to several years back during a time of significant crisis with my dad and ultimately his suicide. I found the podcast to be really helpful as I tried to better understand him and everything we went through while he was still alive.

I haven’t listened to it in a while, so can’t really say if it’s still good but here’s a link in case you want to check it out:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/narcissism-recovery-podcast/id1468823439

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #455 on: January 08, 2024, 03:17:45 PM »
So I just watched a couple of interviews with Anna Delvey and it was freaky. She really reminds me of SM. Obviously she is a lot younger than SM, but both her facial features and her mannerisms and attitutide seem like she could be young SM. Clearly they both think other people should give them money and they feel absolutely no guilt or sense of remorse after taking from others. Basically Anna Delvey sticks to her story but also thinks everyone else is stupid. She comes right out and says she thinks a lot of people with money are not very smart and they are not very skilled or talented, so why should they have the money?

Anyway, freaked me out. Is being a con artist genetic and are they related in some way?

Sandi_k

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #456 on: January 08, 2024, 07:19:45 PM »
Who's Anna Delvey?

iris lily

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #457 on: January 08, 2024, 07:27:20 PM »
Who's Anna Delvey?

A young woman from Europe, probably Germany,, who came to the United States and conned a lot of rich people in New York City. I mean, they were handing her money left and right.

I love a good con man story, and she made a good one. It is amazing what some people can accomplish with sheer balls and lies.

Metalcat

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Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #459 on: January 16, 2024, 03:47:18 PM »
Well here's the least surprising update ever.

To briefly recap, SM has:
spent every nickel they have, and then some, mostly on her talentless crafting
sold their house along with all of my Dad's possessions
   (literally everything, including family heirlooms like my grandfather's medal and great grandfather's cufflinks), and
moved to the senior living apartment of her choice that they can't afford.

And now, less than 6 months after the home sale,
well that didn't take very long: she is now quite aggressively both asking for money and trying to off-load him.
She quoted the amount they are paying to live there in yet another unsolicited email to her massive listserv. It's exactly what I had gathered independently. They CAN pay the bill for some period of time if they use the proceeds from the home sale, assuming she hasn't blown it all yet. But of course she doesn't want to do that . . . so she just says she doesn't have any money.

She claims their problems are health related (this is her MO all along all the way back to her last husband's medical bills bankrupting her . . . uh huh). But really the problems are financial and entirely of their own making. Mostly of her making since Dad long since reliquished the purse strings entirely to her, but it's on him too for trusting such a louse and nitwit with his earnings.

She going to dump him now that he is no longer working and generating the sizable income she can spend. But not divorce him, oh no, then he'd get half of the money from the home sale. Instead she's just going to off load him somehow yet stay married and keep all the money. I really despise this woman. Not going to respond to her emails at all.

getsorted

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #460 on: January 16, 2024, 03:52:05 PM »
Ugggh, @Zamboni , that sucks so much!!!

reeshau

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #461 on: January 16, 2024, 04:00:47 PM »
(literally everything, including family heirlooms like my grandfather's medal and great grandfather's cufflinks)

I know we are all rooting for you to stay out of this mess, as much as possible.  Is there any way to track down the heirloom buyer, and perhaps reclaim some of them?  Are they worth it to you and/or other family members?  It's probably easier to do, the more recent the sale.

G-dog

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #462 on: January 16, 2024, 04:15:34 PM »
Oh @Zamboni  - I am so sorry, I know your heart aches and rages for your father and his care and well-being.  Hugs.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #463 on: January 16, 2024, 05:55:56 PM »
Wow, this sucks but like you said, not at all surprising.

Any chance your dad would divorce her so he’d get half of whatever money is left? Maybe he’d then be able to afford a small apartment on his own & be much better off without her bullshit. 

Omy

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #464 on: January 16, 2024, 06:06:53 PM »
Was it obvious in the email that she was trying to offload Dad?

If Dad wasn't included in the email, I'd be inclined to make sure he understands her plans.

And if they separate, she would no longer have access to his social security/pension....so that's a positive.

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #465 on: January 17, 2024, 09:32:35 AM »
Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

I did get a chance to discuss it all with some extended family, so that was helpful. They were distraught by some of her inaccurate reports about how he is doing, so it was good to at least give them another perspective. I won't be able to visit him for awhile due to my work location and schedule, so I have to let go of the hope that I can do anything about anything as far as his situation is concerned.

(literally everything, including family heirlooms like my grandfather's medal and great grandfather's cufflinks)

I know we are all rooting for you to stay out of this mess, as much as possible.  Is there any way to track down the heirloom buyer, and perhaps reclaim some of them?  Are they worth it to you and/or other family members?  It's probably easier to do, the more recent the sale.

I'm not that worried about the physical items, but it's just symptomatic of the whole situation. It's also opposite of how the rest of my family operates, which makes it seem even more weird. Even my Mom, who has her own issues, seems to understand that it might be nice to offer her granddaughters some of her grandmother's earrings as a momento of their family ties.

Wow, this sucks but like you said, not at all surprising.

Any chance your dad would divorce her so he’d get half of whatever money is left? Maybe he’d then be able to afford a small apartment on his own & be much better off without her bullshit. 

I think there's 0% chance of that. She's completely got control of him at this point. We weren't even able to get him to agree to let any of his children have healthcare power of attorney for him when they were both in the hospital. He initially said he thought that was a good idea, but then she swooped in and pitched a fit and he changed his mind. One thing I've learned is that he will always 100% back up SM no matter how destructive she is. He's definitely loyal to her, I'll grant him that. I can't even talk to him alone on the phone . . . she's always always always on the other line. It's disturbing. I can't seem to figure out when to call at a time she won't be there. So I've just made peace with the fact that this is his choice, nothing I can do about it.

Metalcat

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #466 on: January 17, 2024, 09:45:57 AM »
Am I the only one reading who is deeply, painfully curious about what SM's useless, expensive crafting hobby is???

Every time it's mentioned, I picture a new and silly crafting hobby that my mom has been into over the years. Right now I'm picturing "Paint Gem" kits, which are basically very expensive "paint by numbers" pictures, but where you use coloured "gems" instead of paint.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #467 on: January 17, 2024, 09:50:45 AM »
You’ve definitely done all you can do, so at least you can rest easier (if that’s really even possible) knowing it is/was out of your control. It’s just so hard to see people be so destructive and for their loved one to allow it to pull them down completely. We watched my dad do this to my stepmom and it was really difficult. We were able to help her get out of the situation when he became violent but even then, to this day, it is still a struggle for her to navigate her finances. It’s like they get so used to the chaos & are so out of touch with what’s normal that the chaos and all it entails feels normal. It’s been four years now since she left him and she’s come a long way, but it’s certainly not second nature.

I really hope for the best possible outcome for your dad. At the same time I realize how painful it is to be an observer to the destruction.

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #468 on: January 17, 2024, 09:58:37 AM »
^^Metalcat, I will absolutely not be surprised when that is the next thing she decides to spend money on. But she'll go find someone who sells the kits with real gems, because the fake little plastic gems just aren't up to her lofty standards for crafting.

I'll update some day when my Dad has passed . . . for now I'm going to keep it more general. But let's just say that I could have never imagined in a million years how much money someone could spend on something that seems like it should be relatively inexpensive. It's the volume, more than anything, added to the fact that someone out there is making extremely expensive versions of gazingus pins and gazingus pin parts kits no matter what version of gazingus pins you may interested in. And once the crafter buys the extremely expensive gazingus pin parts in a specialty store online, well then she can't go back to what can be purchased in a regular store, right? Because it's just crap in comparison I guess?

Metalcat

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #469 on: January 17, 2024, 10:02:34 AM »
^^Metalcat, I will absolutely not be surprised when that is the next thing she decides to spend money on. But she'll go find someone who sells the kits with real gems, because the fake little plastic gems just aren't up to her lofty standards for crafting.

I'll update some day when my Dad has passed . . . for now I'm going to keep it more general. But let's just say that I could have never imagined in a million years how much money someone could spend on something that seems like it should be relatively inexpensive. It's the volume, more than anything, added to the fact that someone out there is making extremely expensive versions of gazingus pins and gazingus pin parts kits no matter what version of gazingus pins you may interested in. And once the crafter buys the extremely expensive gazingus pin parts in a specialty store online, well then she can't go back to what can be purchased in a regular store, right? Because it's just crap in comparison I guess?

Oh I get it. My mom got into knitting as a "cheap" hobby. Now she buys only the finest wool, custom dyed by a local artisan who is a world renowned artist who has recently switched to wool dyeing as her passion, so you can just imagine what her wool costs... even though my mom is *very* much still an amateur knitter.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #470 on: January 17, 2024, 10:09:03 AM »
The current topic reminds me of this article I read over the weekend. So much about the man in the article reminded me of how my dad did things and how it affected personal relationships.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/interactive/2024/ken-fritz-greatest-stereo-auction-cost/

getsorted

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #471 on: January 17, 2024, 10:54:52 AM »
Oh I get it. My mom got into knitting as a "cheap" hobby. Now she buys only the finest wool, custom dyed by a local artisan who is a world renowned artist who has recently switched to wool dyeing as her passion, so you can just imagine what her wool costs... even though my mom is *very* much still an amateur knitter.

This has happened to every knitter I've ever known. I'm afraid to knit because of it.

mspym

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #472 on: January 17, 2024, 11:13:01 AM »
Oh I get it. My mom got into knitting as a "cheap" hobby. Now she buys only the finest wool, custom dyed by a local artisan who is a world renowned artist who has recently switched to wool dyeing as her passion, so you can just imagine what her wool costs... even though my mom is *very* much still an amateur knitter.

This has happened to every knitter I've ever known. I'm afraid to knit because of it.
I’m so glad embroidery world is happy with cheap DMC sheened cotton…

I’m picturing scrapbooking with extremely expensive paper and custom stamps.

Agatha Thrifty

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #473 on: January 17, 2024, 11:25:41 AM »
Oh I get it. My mom got into knitting as a "cheap" hobby. Now she buys only the finest wool, custom dyed by a local artisan who is a world renowned artist who has recently switched to wool dyeing as her passion, so you can just imagine what her wool costs... even though my mom is *very* much still an amateur knitter.

This has happened to every knitter I've ever known. I'm afraid to knit because of it.

I've been contemplating this myself.  My current thinking is, let's say a skein of nice merino or organic cotton is $20.  If I am doing a project with any complexity at all, I take about 10 hours to knit that up.  $2 per hour is not all that much to spend on consumables for a hobby, and, as much as I enjoy it, I will spend a few hundred hours per year knitting, at most.

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #474 on: January 17, 2024, 11:32:50 AM »
^^My grandfather had a big music room with a complicated control panel but nothing that compares to that stereo, that's for sure. It's amazing what people will do to satisfy their urge to feel a sense of accomplishment, but my main take from reading that piece is that Fritz was a self-centered a-hole.

_______________

The wool story reminds me of this:

The Pope has died, and so the Medici men quickly gather in the great room with their giant fire place ablaze.
Lorenzo waltzes into the room last with his cape swirling.
Giovanni "That looks like a new cloak, may I have a closer look at it?"
Lorenzo beams and hands it over.
Giovanni inspects it. "My father would sell wool like this only to the wealthiest nobles," he says.
Then he hurls the cloak into the fire as Lorenzo makes a yelp of surprise and alarm.
"That is not how the Medici represent themselves," he says.

SunnyDays

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #475 on: January 17, 2024, 12:06:24 PM »
I still worry about how SM plans to “offload” your dad.  Sounds like nothing is beyond her.

MayDay

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #476 on: January 17, 2024, 07:00:23 PM »
We have a similar offloading/money situation but much less severe, with my grandfather.

She needs him financially as he has the income and she has farmland that is very valuable but pays little rent (and refuses to sell it even though her son doesn't want it and will sell as soon as she dies).

My gpa is older and his health is failing and she doesn't want to care for him so is now talking about putting him in assisted living.

We are honestly fine with it as he'll get better care.... But man I hate her.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2024, 07:31:40 AM by MayDay »

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #477 on: January 18, 2024, 04:51:44 AM »
I'm sorry that's going on with your grandfather. It's a bummer.

Here's the thing: I don't expect someone to become a full-time live-in nurse. It's an unrealistic expectation anyway if both people are elderly. If my Dad or your Grandpa need an extensive amount of care and can't do things like brush their own teeth, then assisted living makes sense for them and I am supportive.

But that's not where my Dad is. I was literally just there, so I am confident in my assessment.

My Dad is a neat person and he has always done some cleaning and tasks like taking out the trash. Then they got a maid years ago. He still keeps his own things picked up and takes out the trash at the new place, I watched him do it. He's never been especially willing to cook, but now they have move into an apartment complex that comes with 3 meals a day provided 7 days a week. They also have maid service, free unlimited coffee, etc. So, if SM doesn't want to cook or clean anymore, then that is solved.

He's also a really, really sweet guy. He's not mean or nasty to her at all. He's loving and always supports whatever she wants. She will immediately acknowledge that he is extremely kind. So this isn't a situation where she is being abused. It's starting to feel the other way around, although she tries to put on a public face about what a super nice person she is.

The selling of their home was forced by her extremely poor financial management and online shopping addiction. It got to where the little equity in their home was the only money she hadn't spent (and she had cash out refi'ed in the past, but the market was strong 2020-2022 so they had some new equity). She talked about a reverse mortgage but she was in too deep with her latest debts for that to make a dent. In my opinion they should have picked a living situation they could afford OR a place with graduated care (the current place is neither), but it was 100% her call and she wasn't interested in feedback from anyone else. Money, yes SEND NOW. Suggestions, no, get out of our business.

SM just wants people to send her money. Her current reason is that she says my Dad needs more care than (quoting her here) "I can afford." She views their money as HER money, not their money. Which is weird given that he earned most of it and still provides well more than half via social security. 

I don't think anyone in the family is going for it. The people on my side of the family are all well educated and more shrewd than she realizes. Now that I've talked to a few more people in the extended family, I don't think anyone is going for her ploy. The general opinion is that Dad and SM should use the money they have to pay for his needs. Makes sense, right?

The people are her side of the family either are either 1) completely no contact with her, or 2) acknowledge that "she lives in her own version of reality." The one person in her family who still talks to her and tries to help her doesn't have money to give her even if they want to as far as I can tell.

Now she is talking about "putting him" in hospice. But he doesn't have a terminal diagnosis, and last time I was there he told me he has ZERO pain, so that doesn't make sense to me at all. I think she has it in his head that hospice does something other than what they provide. Or, more likely, she's trying to convince everyone that he is definitely going to die soon. Have I mentioned that she has several life insurance policies on him? The premiums on their life insurances alone are >$1000 a month. The payouts aren't great at all since she's borrowed from them already somehow, but I think she's getting more and more desperate for cash. The life insurance + apartment fees combine to be more than their income per month. And that's without any personal item expenses like tp & kleenex.

From what SM has said to us, she has some sort of magical thinking that my Dad kicking the bucket will solve all her money problems. And I guess maybe it would if it freed her up to latch onto a 4th husband who has money?

lhamo

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #478 on: January 18, 2024, 06:24:09 AM »
And I guess maybe it would if it freed her up to latch onto a 4th husband who has money?


Ding ding ding ding -- we have a winner!

She is in a can't live with him (if/when the money runs out), can't live without him (until the money runs out or she finds alternative supply) situation.

I hope you are keeping a file of your observations in real time.  I hate to say it, but if your dad ends up dead by some "accident" or "sudden illness" this paper trail could be valuable evidence.  Maybe I've been watching too much true crime youtube the past couple of years, but this whole situation is really scary.

MayDay

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #479 on: January 18, 2024, 07:36:16 AM »
@Zamboni totally agree that significant care isn't reasonable. The most recent example with my grandpa is that he has lost a TON of weight due to his medical problems. He doesn't have much appetite. They go out to eat for meals so he eats those.

Evil new wife said to my mom "I guess he should probably drink an ensure twice the day in addition to meals but I don't want to deal with that".

He takes care of all his day to day bathing/dressing. The main help he needs is rides as he is often too weak to drive safely. But it's too much caregiving to remind him to drink an ensure twice a day. 

Anyway. Moving on, he made his choice of a wife.


hooplady

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #480 on: January 18, 2024, 07:48:11 AM »
I hope you are keeping a file of your observations in real time.  I hate to say it, but if your dad ends up dead by some "accident" or "sudden illness" this paper trail could be valuable evidence.  Maybe I've been watching too much true crime youtube the past couple of years, but this whole situation is really scary.
Longtime lurker in this thread but I've been thinking for a while now that this is a very real possibility. It seems like she could easily talk herself into believing that he is "suffering" and she'd be doing him a kindness; with his blind and steadfast loyalty towards her, he would never let on if something was amiss. And she's trying very hard to lay the groundwork for a host of plausible medical conditions.

Maybe too much true crime for me too...I surely hope so for your sake Zamboni.

getsorted

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #481 on: January 18, 2024, 08:26:20 AM »
I think it might be wise to make an elder abuse complaint to whatever social services department exists where you live.

What you're describing is financial abuse, coercive control, and isolation/alienation of other family. The mention of hospice for a well person is extremely concerning because it suggests she is planning to escalate to physical abuse.

One thing I didn't recognize in my own DV situation until it was way too late was that confusion is the point. The erratic behavior, the telling on herself, the constant intrusion into conversations, the audacity-- the point is to keep you off-balance and confused, because it inhibits action. People will pretend to be the victim, pretend to be dumb, pretend to be ill, pretend to be strange, if it means you don't call them out on exactly what they are doing. You spend so much time asking, "What on EARTH, what is going ON with this person? What is WRONG with them?" that you don't realize that it's exactly what it says on the tin. Which in this case is theft and abuse.

G-dog

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #482 on: January 18, 2024, 09:14:59 AM »
I too worry about your father with SM’s claims of “I’ll health”. But I read Murder mysteries and watch crime shows so I may be more suspicious than average.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #483 on: January 18, 2024, 09:25:02 AM »
shyly raises hand.  I DON'T watch a ton of crime shows or read murder mysteries, and my mind went to the same place. I'm concerned for your father.

reeshau

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #484 on: January 18, 2024, 09:37:16 AM »
DW is much more into true crime than I am, but yeah the situation raises my hackles.  I haven't had something like this in my family, but a dear family friend was targeted by a "black widow."  He committed suicide, and was found near a new will, written by her, that she was pressing him to sign.  Which of course signed everything over to her.  And they were not married.  As far as I know, she was never prosecuted for any crime.

Apples

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #485 on: January 18, 2024, 10:01:40 AM »
On a way lighter note, as someone who recently was drinking Ensure and protein drinks to get enough protein and nutrients (pregnancy nausea that just wouldn't go away)...Ensure has a funky taste. I like the Fairlife Core Power protein "shakes" much better. I get chocolate, it's close to the consistency of chocolate milk, and it also has added vitamins and minerals. And tastes much better than Ensure. Just a PSA.

wenchsenior

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #486 on: January 18, 2024, 11:00:53 AM »
On a way lighter note, as someone who recently was drinking Ensure and protein drinks to get enough protein and nutrients (pregnancy nausea that just wouldn't go away)...Ensure has a funky taste. I like the Fairlife Core Power protein "shakes" much better. I get chocolate, it's close to the consistency of chocolate milk, and it also has added vitamins and minerals. And tastes much better than Ensure. Just a PSA.

Good to know. I have drunk Ensure a few times and it wasn't terrible, but I'll keep the other one in mind as my mom ages.

Josiecat22222

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #487 on: January 18, 2024, 11:36:51 AM »
On a way lighter note, as someone who recently was drinking Ensure and protein drinks to get enough protein and nutrients (pregnancy nausea that just wouldn't go away)...Ensure has a funky taste. I like the Fairlife Core Power protein "shakes" much better. I get chocolate, it's close to the consistency of chocolate milk, and it also has added vitamins and minerals. And tastes much better than Ensure. Just a PSA.

Good to know. I have drunk Ensure a few times and it wasn't terrible, but I'll keep the other one in mind as my mom ages.

Off topic, I know, but if you blend an ensure with 1/2 a frozen banana, it makes it thick and frothy and cold, like a real milkshake.  Of course, it all depends on your dietary needs.

Kris

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #488 on: January 18, 2024, 11:38:45 AM »
On a way lighter note, as someone who recently was drinking Ensure and protein drinks to get enough protein and nutrients (pregnancy nausea that just wouldn't go away)...Ensure has a funky taste. I like the Fairlife Core Power protein "shakes" much better. I get chocolate, it's close to the consistency of chocolate milk, and it also has added vitamins and minerals. And tastes much better than Ensure. Just a PSA.

I have to second this. Ensure is disgusting. I just had a Fairlife Core Power chocolate protein shake this morning. It really does just taste like chocolate milk. Way easier to get down. They have them at Costco, FYI, if you want to buy them in bulk.

jrhampt

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #489 on: January 18, 2024, 12:01:14 PM »
On a way lighter note, as someone who recently was drinking Ensure and protein drinks to get enough protein and nutrients (pregnancy nausea that just wouldn't go away)...Ensure has a funky taste. I like the Fairlife Core Power protein "shakes" much better. I get chocolate, it's close to the consistency of chocolate milk, and it also has added vitamins and minerals. And tastes much better than Ensure. Just a PSA.

I have to second this. Ensure is disgusting. I just had a Fairlife Core Power chocolate protein shake this morning. It really does just taste like chocolate milk. Way easier to get down. They have them at Costco, FYI, if you want to buy them in bulk.

^^^thirded.  Fairlife is tasty, we also get them at Costco.

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #490 on: January 18, 2024, 03:04:22 PM »
I will say that I did reply to all when she sent the hospice email this week. In my reply I was very direct that hospice was for people who had a terminal diagnosis and were expected to die within the next 6 months.

Then I made a point of calling Dad's siblings to tell them that he does NOT have a "6 months terminal" diagnosis as far as I know, I just saw him and he told me he is in no pain because I specifically asked. I'm not going to put up with her new "he's suffering" routine without a fight. He's old and yes he does have some health issues, but he doesn't have Alzheimers (she actually goes to a support group, or at least starting saying she does as of Christmastime) and he's not in pain. He has finally stopped working so I can't use that as a defense against her batty claims anymore. The hospice email had already really upset one of his brothers, who lives far away and just took it at face value. Why would he know he is dealing with a crazy person? I felt weird making the calls to just tell people "no, she's not an accurate reporter, here are a few stories," but everyone I talked with thanked me.

At this point I do think I'm dealing with a totally crazy person. We already know she pulled the fake cancer this year, which my Aunt correctly identified as Munchausen syndrome. Now she's moving on to Munchausen syndrome by proxy. My Aunt worked for social services and it sounds like she's seen SM's routine before in other people who are constantly trying to drum up sympathy and support from others.

Anyway, she's now backed off the hospice routine, I think all providers in their normal healthcare system are on to her, and so now she says she trying to get help from the VA. Good luck with that, SM. I think the VA doctors can likely read what is in his medical file just as well as the doctors in his normal network. And I'd bet all doctors have experience deflecting crazy family members.

I agree the things she has been saying and doing over the past year equate to elder abuse, but as I've said before I don't think social services will do anything because he willingly turned over all the finances to her and he will always say everything is fine. Since he doesn't actually have the dementia she claims he has, if he tells any social worker everything is fine, then they are going to believe him. People have all kinds of dysfunctional relationships in marriage . . . he doesn't have a monopoly on that.

SunnyDays

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #491 on: January 18, 2024, 03:52:58 PM »
Just because he would tell a social worker everything is fine doesn’t mean it still wouldn’t be beneficial to report SM.  You have documentation in the form of her texts/emails etc and it would not be the first time a social worker will have come across a situation like this.  At the very least, they will have her on file in case worse happens and she will have been put on notice that authorities have her in their sights.

I would report her if I were you.  Without delay.

Freedomin5

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #492 on: January 18, 2024, 10:54:13 PM »
+1 on reporting. They should at least open a file on her and investigate. Then if/when things get worse, you file another report, and they can start to gather a paper trail/history.

It’s better to report and be wrong, than to not report and be wrong. See something, say something. If in doubt, check it out.

I’m in a line of work where I’m a mandatory reporter, and that’s the training we receive as mandatory reporters.

Also, my mind also immediately went to “black widow” especially when I read that she’s taken out several life insurance policies on your dad. But I do read a lot of crime thrillers and grew up watching CSI.

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #493 on: January 27, 2024, 01:53:54 AM »
Thank you for the advice, everyone.

I'm not sure exactly how I would report things, honestly. That I think she may try to snuff out my Dad?

What I don't want to do is make things worse for my Dad. For whatever reason, he wants to stay with her. Did she wreck his financial situation? Absolutely. Does she tells lies about his health? Repeatedly. Did she take out two additional insurance policies on him in addition to the one he already had? Yes. Did she do the same to her second husband? Probably. Is she willing to falsify paperwork about literally anything as "evidence" she can use. Yes, that is something I have seen from her many times at this point.

What I'd be up against is that she's a well-seasoned con artist who puts on the face of being super sweet and kind and going above and beyond to do things for him. She also plays the long game on her cons, laying the groundwork by doing things like going to support groups (or at least telling people she goes to them) for conditions that don't actually affect her life. She carries on to anyone who will listen about how much she loves him. Remember: this is a person who faked a cancer diagnosis for months and months, and only came clean when my Dad leaked the truth and it was clear the cat was out of the bag. And even then it was "it's a miracle! My prayers of beating my cancer are answered." She has no scruples about defrauding friends and family. None at all.

But, a lot of people are conned and think she is wonderful. A few people seem to be on to her, but more often than not she is successful at fooling her acquaintances and our extended family. Definitely a lot of medical professionals know she is a liar, and their interactions with her that I witness are why I think it is noted in her chart. But then a new provider or social worker will come along and they will not read her chart and just take what she says at face value at first. I've seen this happen over and over. She's been doing this for years in all aspects of her life. In some sense I'm up against a pro.

And if my Dad's on board with a lot of her shenanigans, which he seem to be, then is it really my place to interfere with his personal life? I've certainly given him information, support, and opportunity to get away from her: he doesn't want to.

Smokystache

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #494 on: January 27, 2024, 06:46:59 AM »
Keep an eye on the hospice situation. Unfortunately there are some unscrupulous hospice organizations that will sign up a patient well before they meet the traditional criteria that you mentioned. Why would they do that? Because they start getting paid their daily, flat rate from Medicare from the day of sign up. So if they can sign up relatively healthy patients 1 month or 1 year before they normally would, they get paid even if they don't really have to do anything for quite a while.  The big problem for your father would be, of course, that being on hospice would prevent many types of care that would prolong his life.
Here's a frequently cited expose on the "sign them up early" fraud: https://www.propublica.org/article/hospice-healthcare-aseracare-medicare

I should note that I am a big supporter of hospice and believe that most patients don't get enrolled soon enough, when the patient and their family could receive all sorts of medical and emotional support.

Omy

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #495 on: January 27, 2024, 08:09:33 AM »
Hospice also automatically supplies the patient with morphine. At that point, she'd have an easy way to kill him with his own meds.

Zamboni

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #496 on: January 28, 2024, 04:50:58 AM »
^Which would be extremely weird in a case where a man says repeatedly he is in absolutely no pain.

Thank you for the article about hospice, Smokystache. Very eye opening. The article definitely makes it sound like she can sign him up for hospice if that is what she wants to do. She does have medical power of attorney if he is incapacitated.

He generally is not incapacitated. When I was there (and she was not) he was 100% fully lucid and took care of everything for himself for an entire week. He made the coffee, directed me all over town to run errands, we went out for several meals, etc. He navigated me around a detour downtown at one point; he's appeared to be completely mentally functioning and says he's in no pain.

But, when she is there he seems to be cyclically on some kind of meds which make him groggy and make it difficult for him to stay awake. Then she'll say "see, he can't stay awake." This has been going on for months as she ratchets up her "poor me" stories.

I made it clear to her this summer that I don't think she has enough money to get by on her own very long even if he dies right at this moment and she collects all of the life insurance. I was hoping that would slow her down, and it has a little. They moved to a community where she grooms her next mark (or marks . . . she seems to be able to get little old ladies to give her money and put her in their will.)

Meanwhile, I can't visit for awhile, but at least I get updates from family friends. A couple of those guys I have told exactly what is going on and they have been kind enough to make time to go visit them and let me know how it went.

lhamo

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #497 on: January 28, 2024, 05:44:07 AM »
Morphine is used a lot in hospice not just for pain relief -- it also helps to make it easier to breathe, at least short-term.  So it is often used a lot toward the end for people whose combined heart/lung function has declined in relation to their terminal condition -- that was the case for my mom (who had congestive heart failure due to a failed valve).  Somebody who is a real doctor and not just playing one on the internet can probably explain the mechanism of that better than I can.  But there is a fine line between the dose that helps open up the lungs enough to make breathing easier and the higher dose that basically makes the part of your brain that controls the breathing think "oh, this is very nice, let's just stop and relax for a bit." 


Omy

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #498 on: January 28, 2024, 06:19:29 AM »
We found it absolutely shocking that they handed us a bag of morphine and other meds as soon as MIL was signed up for hospice.

She wasn't eating but was in no pain so really didn't need any pain meds - but they gave us this stuff "just in case".

It came in handy at the end when her breathing became labored, but I imagine these meds get misused/abused regularly since there doesn't seem to be a lot of regulation.

MrFancypants

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Re: Please help me help my parents
« Reply #499 on: January 28, 2024, 07:22:37 AM »
^Which would be extremely weird in a case where a man says repeatedly he is in absolutely no pain.


Watch for gaslighting. It seems as though your father might report pain when there is none on the insistence from SM that he’s acting like he’s in pain. YOU know better, hospice care might not.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!