PhD / Academia

[partgypsy]

I took 5 years, which is pretty much the fastest you could get through the program. The program had a 50% drop out rate which I hear is typical. A certain percentage were failed as the master's level, where they were failed while defending their master's thesis (basically told the department would not support their research focus). The rest in dropping out before completing dissertation or extremely rarely, dissertation not approved.

[Glenstache]

A 3 year Ph.D., part-time? This is absolute garbage and will not be considered a legitimate education for academic positions.

Or they were a genius in an odd field. There's a story circulating at UofM of a professor that finished their PhD (history) in about 2.5 years and was hired on the spot. Three years part-time might be do-able if you had your Masters already and are doing a UK style degree as well.

My PhD advisor finished his PhD in 3 years... and they literally retired the "burnt toast" grad student award for working too hard after he got it. That was no part-time degree, that's for sure.

[Glenstache]

I guess there's always this option, too:
https://www.expressuniversitydegree.com/buy-a-phd/

[Tass]

I guess there's always this option, too:
https://www.expressuniversitydegree.com/buy-a-phd/

This reads like satire. Except that I fully believe they allow you to send them your money. I wonder how much a PhD costs?

Edit: It costs just under $500.

[Glenstache]

I guess there's always this option, too:
https://www.expressuniversitydegree.com/buy-a-phd/

This reads like satire. Except that I fully believe they allow you to send them your money. I wonder how much a PhD costs?

Edit: It costs just under $500.

Here's the fun part: that link was selected only because it was the first result when I searched on "Mail order PhD". I was a little surprised at how many options there were.

[Tass]

I guess there's always this option, too:
https://www.expressuniversitydegree.com/buy-a-phd/

This reads like satire. Except that I fully believe they allow you to send them your money. I wonder how much a PhD costs?

Edit: It costs just under $500.

Here's the fun part: that link was selected only because it was the first result when I searched on "Mail order PhD". I was a little surprised at how many options there were.

They would like you to believe they're a better option than everything else that google turned up. "Never sell diploma mill degree guaranteed." https://www.expressuniversitydegree.com/our-promise/

[Glenstache]

Ok, this is too amazing. ULC offers "Doctor of Divinity" honorary degrees. The best part is that the name they put on the image is.... wait for it.... Chuck Norris.
https://store.ulc.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=dr%2Ddivinity

[sol]

I still don't understand how he did it other than he's a fucking unicorn.

I have seen a handful of these impossible situations unfold in academia, but there has always been some extenuating circumstance.  In one case a grad student was converted directly to faculty without a post doc, because she was banging a superstar prof and he threatened to move to a rival university unless they hired her.  In another a very mediocre grad student got a prestigious pd fellowship because he was related to the dean of the college who had just funded a major expansion of the department.  And I know of two different cases from undergrad of the university paying off individuals to cover up sexual indiscretions of quasi-famous (for a scientist) celebrity faculty members, including one in which the school paid off the perp because his wife took everything in the ensuing divorce and he threatened to quit and go into industry unless they gave him an endowed chair.  In another department, a proud feminist and lesbian professor was notorious for hand picking cute blonde undergrads and cultivating then into successful scientists, but she never had a single male student successfully defend.

Academia is a ruthless environment, at the upper levels.  As with any other arena, the very top competitors viciously exploit every loophole for personal advantage, because that's how you get to the very top.  From the outside looking in, it doesn't always seem to make sense.

[Zoot]

-I've heard it say that you have to learn to "think like a lawyer" in law school. PhD work fundamentally changes your thought process. To this day I have a hard time reading long form fiction and can point directly to my dissertation years as the reason. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you should be aware of the change.

@Lostcomm, I really resonated with this statement, and would love to hear you say more about it.  I'm emerged from a PhD program in linguistics about 20 years ago as an ABD (took me waaaay too long to figure out it wasn't what I wanted to do), and I didn't read ANY fiction of ANY kind for years afterwards.  I think the first thing I read was one of the Harry Potter books, and even THAT was a little too much.  I still don't read much of anything, and when I do, it's cookery books or magazines, or other non-fiction.

Even now I find it hard--my inner "editor" is always on, and I find myself observing stylistic devices and syntax and grammar and structure and so on and so on instead of just enjoying it. 

-If you quit, well, that's another discussion. It's tough to unring that bell.

I'd also LOVE to hear more on this, having quit myself.  :)

[OtherJen]

I only have people I really like, or really don't like call me doctor.

I laughed.

So did I. I rarely pull the “Doctor” card, but I’ve definitely used it in a small number of situations. Most notably with an extremely arrogant and condescending county prosecutor during jury selection. I asked a question about the charges, she addressed me as “Miss” and proceeded to answer as one would to a 5-year-old. I cut in and insisted on Doctor. She struck me from the panel almost immediately. Oh darn.

I also do non-partisan political work in my community. Dropping the “Doctor” title is very effective with some politicians.

[partgypsy]

I only have people I really like, or really don't like call me doctor.

I laughed.

So did I. I rarely pull the “Doctor” card, but I’ve definitely used it in a small number of situations. Most notably with an extremely arrogant and condescending county prosecutor during jury selection. I asked a question about the charges, she addressed me as “Miss” and proceeded to answer as one would to a 5-year-old. I cut in and insisted on Doctor. She struck me from the panel almost immediately. Oh darn.

I also do non-partisan political work in my community. Dropping the “Doctor” title is very effective with some politicians.

Yep you are not going to get picked for jury duty if you have a doctorate. I was picked twice for jury duty in the past 4 years and didn't serve either time. I watched as they quizzed a potential jurist who was a geologist with a masters. They asked what he did for a living and when he answered with a cogent and technically complex description, I could see the prosecutor mentally checking him off the list. Sure enough even though he had no conflicts or issues he was struck from the pool.

[Smokystache]

-If you quit, well, that's another discussion. It's tough to unring that bell.

I'd also LOVE to hear more on this, having quit myself.  :)
[/quote]

I'm not sure if Lostcomm is saying he/she has quit or just that it's a whole different minefield, but I'm curious too. I've just quit after 14 years at a SLAC to pursue my own business ventures. Time will tell if it was the smartest or dumbest thing I've ever done.

[Lostcomm]

-If you quit, well, that's another discussion. It's tough to unring that bell.

I'd also LOVE to hear more on this, having quit myself.  :)

I'm not sure if Lostcomm is saying he/she has quit or just that it's a whole different minefield, but I'm curious too. I've just quit after 14 years at a SLAC to pursue my own business ventures. Time will tell if it was the smartest or dumbest thing I've ever done.
[/quote]

Hello-
  There seemed to be a question concerning the above statement and another involving losing the ability to read long form fiction.

 With respect to those that didn't finish their PhDs, I'm jealous. I completed mine but only because my employer would have required me to pay the tuition back (and I'm pretty cheap.) When I say it's a tough bell to unring, it has more to do with those around you than you. A student (or candidate if they made it that far) is a big deal for people. They're proud of you and will tell everyone they know. I think it's a bit like writing a novel - if you tell everyone you're doing it, the chances you'll complete it seem to go down. As an aside I know a guy who stopped working on his dissertation after comps almost ten years ago and still uses "John Smith, PhD(c)" in his signature lines and business cards. I doubt he'll ever finish (or if the school will let him) but on occasion he'll talk about getting around to that pesky dissertation. I'm told most people fall out at the dissertation phase because it's such a new process for people.

  I think it's that way for just about any major undertaking. Please don't think I'm passing any judgment for people that didn't complete a PhD or some other task. For me, those things follow me around and if I can't complete them I know it never goes away (at least for me.)

  As far as reading goes, what I found after years of reading journal articles and pulling a sentence out of them for my lit review, was that I now read differently. Whether I'm looking for the main argument, a fact, or some sort of exposition, I struggle, even 9 years later to pick up a book to read for enjoyment, and especially fiction. At one point I could rip through a good work of non fiction in a day or two, now I don't really bother because the book will go on the shelf. Pre dissertation I started a study by Boice of the Bible. A verse by verse, very intensive read. The first book of the series was Genesis 1 through (guessing here) 2. Again, a difficult read because it had a lot of counter arguments and interpretations. I intended to start up where I left off after graduation - no way. I started to reread the first book and just couldn't get through it. Maybe others haven't had this happen to them, or maybe I was doing it all wrong, but that's my story!
 
  Another thing that came to mind about PhDs, people will think you're overqualified. I saw this in the military where some of us had badges and tabs and worked in a technical field. We got different (better) responses from our "customers" when we didn't wear all that stuff on our uniforms. A friend of mine was an SF enlisted man and talked about the burden it sometimes placed on him as a Signal officer. Once people knew about his SF tab, there was no keeping it secret, which meant he was going to have to be on his "A" game all the time. He would have anyway, but it added needless stress to the guy's life. As a PhD I see people thinking, or even saying, "I can't have you do this, you'll be bored."

  They might be right, but we'll never know.

  Probably like most people on this site I play things close to the vest.  I don't wear my PhD every day, I keep my finances quiet (though most of my friends are aware things are at least ok,) I give to charities quietly and for the most part I try to keep my mouth shut. I think people on this site know what I mean ("I got a great deal! Such low car payments!" My inner monologue: Car payments?!)

  Anyway, best of luck to all.
LC

[sol]

I’ve completely lost my ability to read fiction. Completely.

I thought it was just me.  Apparently this is a thing?

[OtherJen]

I’ve completely lost my ability to read fiction. Completely.

I thought it was just me.  Apparently this is a thing?

I have trouble with long-form writing in general. Part of it is the PhD (too much screening of abstracts and methods sections) and part of it is the fact that I spend hours everyday reading and editing research manuscripts, grant proposals, and dissertations. I’ve come to appreciate the art of the short story.

[frugaldevil]

I have the same reasons for not reading much fiction.

Although there's likely some selection for people who read for information among the PhD set.

[maizefolk]

Well to provide at least one counter example: I haven't noticed any decline in the pleasure I get from reading fiction since either starting or completing my PhD.

Obviously YMMV.

[sol]

Well to provide at least one counter example: I haven't noticed any decline in the pleasure I get from reading fiction since either starting or completing my PhD.

Obviously YMMV.

In the interest of precision... It wasn't zero to begin with, was it?

[maizefolk]

Hahaha, fair question. No, not zero, and definitely above average for american adults in the 21st century (although as I type that I realize it's a low bar).

[fiteacher]

Reading the last couple of comments on this thread make me think and I also have the same problem reading fiction. The only fiction that I really read anymore is historical fiction and I find myself comparing the fiction to what I know of the time period/knowledge from my non-fiction studies. I don't think I have read a fiction book outside of historical fiction at all in the last few years (except for Star Wars novels) because I can't connect it to what I am reading/researching at the time.

Let me say, however, that I have always loved reading history and political books as my first love so I guess it might not be as dramatic as other folks who got their Ph.D.s.

[Tass]

If I thought losing my love of fiction was a realistic risk of doing my PhD I never would have started it. So far, so good.

[clarkfan1979]

It took me about 12 drafts and 6 years to finish my dissertation project. For the last 4 years, I was ABD with a full-time job. I would write a draft of my dissertation and it would take 3-6 months for my advisor to make comments and send back to me. On a typical year, I would be working on my dissertation for 3 months and my advisor would have it for 9 months. I would only have the opportunity to do about two drafts in a year.

My dissertation committee also told me that they won't respond to me or my project over the summer because they don't get paid over the summer. My grad program had a high attrition rate. I wonder why?

[CCCA]

being in academia made it hard for me to read much of anything for pleasure that wasn't on the internet or magazine length or shorter unless I was on vacation.  Being on sabbatical, I've read a ton of books, almost entirely fiction, which is really nice.

[mizzourah2006]

It took me about 12 drafts and 6 years to finish my dissertation project. For the last 4 years, I was ABD with a full-time job. I would write a draft of my dissertation and it would take 3-6 months for my advisor to make comments and send back to me. On a typical year, I would be working on my dissertation for 3 months and my advisor would have it for 9 months. I would only have the opportunity to do about two drafts in a year.

My dissertation committee also told me that they won't respond to me or my project over the summer because they don't get paid over the summer. My grad program had a high attrition rate. I wonder why?

I had a similar experience with an advisor, but once the other faculty found out they were pretty sympathetic and I was able to switch advisors. I sent him a draft in early September and around January he sent a note to me and the chair of the program saying he had accepted a position at another school and because I wasn't far enough along he wasn't going to take me. He then told the chair I hadn't attempted to make any progress in my dissertation since the beginning of the semester. I took screenshots of emails I sent him at least bi-weekly if not weekly asking him if there was anything I could do or how the draft review was coming along and he said just wait for him to finish the review. The most frustrating thing for me was once my new advisor got ahold of my manuscript she basically told me I was extremely close to proposing and I did within 2 months of her receiving it. So He essentially set me back by about 6-8 months, given that she read the same draft he had received at the beginning of September as he never provided me any feedback.

Not quite as bad as yours, so I can't imagine how frustrating your experience was, but still another reason I didn't want to be in Academia. Once comps was finished it seemed like the politics came out of the woodwork. It was like dancing on ice, trying to just get finished and get out.