pay everything on credit card, take advantage of cash back rewards

[Hoy]

Has anyone devised a way to pay their mortgage, student loans, and big ticket purchases on credit cards, and pay them off monthly. I think that would be a fantastic way to get some money back, however I have never heard of these creditors accepting CC's as payment. Any workarounds?

Thanks,

Hoy

[AJ]

I can all but guarantee you will not find any way to pay your mortgage with a credit card fee-free. It costs the merchant a percentage of the transaction to allow you to use a credit card for payment, usually 2%-3%. Merchants inflate their prices by an equivalent amount to cover the cost, but a mortgage company can't do that. In theory, they could charge you an extra 3% fee to allow the use of cards, and some will do this, but since rewards are usually only 1% or so, this wouldn't help you.

[Angie55]

I've paid my student loans on credit cards with chargesmart. Primarily to get it onto a 0% interest card with no fee on the CC. Chargesmart charged about 2.9% got 1% back in credit card rewards. Saved 8.1% on the student loans so I netted a little. I couldn't stomach to do more than 10k though or else I could have saved more.

This isn't really useful for things you would normally pay upfront like mortgage or regular bills because of the 3% fee. At least not until the savings rate gets back to that joyous 5%.

[CanuckExpat]

There are ways to do this, but it involves some separate steps and fees, you will have to calculate if you come out ahead.
Bluebird by American Express is a weird hybrid bank/debit card that also lets you do bill payments to a variety of mortgage companies, student loans, etc, they also will mail a check from your balance to pay any bills they don't support.
Where it gets interesting is that you can load your Bluebird account with Vanilla Reload cards which you can buy at certain retail stores on credit cards. Note, that the most you can buy on one reload card is $500, and it comes with a $3.95 fee, so you are paying about 0.8% in fees to buy the card; if you can buy the card with a card that gets you 1% or more cashback, you are on top. It's not really worth the trouble if you are only getting 1% back on your card, but it is useful for meeting minimum spending requirements to say get a cash bonus.
On the other hand, if you handle it right, you can usually get about 3-5% back on the CC purchase, which makes it more worthwhile. Google Bluebird and Vanilla Reload, you will see a lot of results, and think about how to best apply it in your situation if you are interested.
Hope that helps.

[Bakari]

In theory, they could charge you an extra 3% fee to allow the use of cards, and some will do this

I believe the credit card companies make merchants agree to not charge more to accept credit cards as part of their user agreement, to prevent encouraging consumers to pay with cash, which is why merchants hide the fee in regular prices instead.

[jpdcpajd]

I used to pay rent on CC and accumulated many miles but still have not used any of them in the 13 yrs that i have started to accumulated them.  I have started paying my electric bill 6 months (on budget billing) in advance for a $3 fee but now as I rethink that i do not need much of an efund it may be better to put in market.

[Gin]

We pay everything that does not charge a transaction fee on cc and pay off the end of the month.  We never were able to pay mortgage on cc (mortgage free for yrs) beacuse they charged a fee.  We always ask.  Bought a car and asked but they said nope had to write a check instead.  Appliances and hard wood flooring all bought with cc.

[RetiredAt63]

I have Air Miles on my cc so use it for everything I can.  But I treat it like a debit card, I have to have the money.  The charges usually show up on my on-line banking the next day, and I pay them as soon as they show, so my running balance is $0.  I do use the Air Miles when I travel ("free" rental cars, hotel rooms, etc.) so it is worth while.  If I had no use for them I wouldn't bother.   Plus I can track purchases this way just as easily as with a debit card.

[hybrid]

Almost everything that I can charge to my Costco Amex gets charged to that (and paid off at the end of the month), but most of my bills must be paid through more conventional means.

[rving-carol]

I can pay my internet, electric, trash, vehicle registration, home & car insurance on cc without fees. I live in an RV and can pay my rent about 30% of the time.
I invest in Microplace every month. I pay through paypal using my amazon visa so I get a 1% rewards on the $s invested and get a present for myself every month. This month I got a bean sprouter.
I have only paid interest on a credit card once. I dropped the payment envelope down between the car sit years ago. Now I always pay online.
As a former owner of a small business that had to pay the cc companies so much money over the years, I make every effort to get some of it back ;-)

[Dibbels81]

Using the American Express Blue Preferred Card, you get 6% cash back for all purchases in Grocery Stores.  When I have a big ticket expense, I purchase a $500 Visa debit card at the store to use for it.  Take off the $5.95 Visa fee, and it's about a $25 net each time.  AMEX has caught on to this practice, and has limited grocery purchases to $6000 annually, but still, easy money.     

[Matte]

I have been doing it for years , 2% on gas/groceries (anything at a grocery store) and 1% on everything else.  The rebate checks are nice.  I have been putting phone bill, insurance, pretty much everything i can.  Had a credit card since 2006 and never paid interest once.  (until I got wise and out of debt I paid it with my line of credit).

[smedleyb]

My theory is that those who use credit cards exclusively to buy everything, even if they pay off balance in full at end of month, invariably spend 10-20% more over the course of the year on discretionary (such as food, gas, clothes, entertainment, etc.)  than consumers who use strictly cash.  It's like wasting a dollar to save a nickle.  It's the same logic that casinos use to compel you to gamble with chips and not use cash directly (even though they'll let you).

 

   

[rving-carol]

My theory is that those who use credit cards exclusively to buy everything, even if they pay off balance in full at end of month, invariably spend 10-20% more over the course of the year on discretionary (such ass food, gas, clothes, entertainment, etc.)  than consumers who use strictly cash. 

Not!!! My entertainment cost is a fixed $8 mo. netflix and $100 a year for books. The few times I eat out, I either get someone else to pay or I pay in cash because it's a family owned business. Almost all my clothes are purchased at goodwill in cash. I live on $15k or less a year. I really don't know how to spend 10-20% more.

When the Virginia lottery came out around 30 years ago my friend asked what I would do with a million dollars. 30 seconds later she laughed and said that I would spend $100 and put the rest in the bank. I asked her what the hell would I spend $100 on.

[Bakari]

My theory is that those who use credit cards exclusively to buy everything, even if they pay off balance in full at end of month, invariably spend 10-20% more over the course of the year on discretionary (such as food,

how is food "discretionary"?

[Cecil]

My theory is that those who use credit cards exclusively to buy everything, even if they pay off balance in full at end of month, invariably spend 10-20% more over the course of the year on discretionary (such as food, gas, clothes, entertainment, etc.)  than consumers who use strictly cash.  It's like wasting a dollar to save a nickle.  It's the same logic that casinos use to compel you to gamble with chips and not use cash directly (even though they'll let you). 

This theory is based around the idea that cash "feels real" and credit cards hide exactly how much you're spending. I understand many people feel this way, but I've never understood it.

I feel like my bank account balance is the real measure of how much money I have. Cash just doesn't feel "real" to me - it feels like monopoly money. My credit card balance is where my real money is.

The upshot of this is that I hate taking cash out of the bank, because I feel like once I do, the money is already spent. I find it way easier to throw cash around than to pull out my credit card.

[smedleyb]

My theory is that those who use credit cards exclusively to buy everything, even if they pay off balance in full at end of month, invariably spend 10-20% more over the course of the year on discretionary (such as food,

how is food "discretionary"?

Clothing too, if you really want to nitpick.

I guess I had the silly idea that people spend more at the grocery store when they have a large credit line, or buy that extra item of clothing, etc.   But I guess we're all spartan spenders around here, right?

But I'll be more semantically rigorous in the future, I promise.     

[arebelspy]

My theory is that those who use credit cards exclusively to buy everything, even if they pay off balance in full at end of month, invariably spend 10-20% more over the course of the year on discretionary (such as food, gas, clothes, entertainment, etc.)  than consumers who use strictly cash.  It's like wasting a dollar to save a nickle.  It's the same logic that casinos use to compel you to gamble with chips and not use cash directly (even though they'll let you). 

This theory is based around the idea that cash "feels real" and credit cards hide exactly how much you're spending. I understand many people feel this way, but I've never understood it.

I feel like my bank account balance is the real measure of how much money I have. Cash just doesn't feel "real" to me - it feels like monopoly money. My credit card balance is where my real money is.

The upshot of this is that I hate taking cash out of the bank, because I feel like once I do, the money is already spent. I find it way easier to throw cash around than to pull out my credit card.

Agreed.  It's much easier for me to lose track of cash spending than card spending.

I think cash envelope systems are great for those who have trouble controlling their spending.  If your spending is aligned with your values, it's unnecessary.

To each his own.

[arebelspy]

I guess I had the silly idea that people spend more at the grocery store when they have a large credit line, or buy that extra item of clothing, etc.

At least you recognize it as silly now.  Kudos on the growth.

It is certainly ridiculous to say I'm going to spend more at the grocery store if I pay with a credit card with a 35,000 limit than I would if I paid with a credit card with a 2,500 limit than if I paid with 100-200 cash in my pocket.

What, I'm just going to throw extra food in the cart as I go up and down the aisles, thinking about how large my credit limit is?

Hahah, good one. :)

[smedleyb]

I guess I had the silly idea that people spend more at the grocery store when they have a large credit line, or buy that extra item of clothing, etc.

At least you recognize it as silly now.  Kudos on the growth.

It is certainly ridiculous to say I'm going to spend more at the grocery store if I pay with a credit card with a 35,000 limit than I would if I paid with a credit card with a 2,500 limit than if I paid with 100-200 cash in my pocket.

What, I'm just going to throw extra food in the cart as I go up and down the aisles, thinking about how large my credit limit is?

Hahah, good one. :)

Kudos on completely misunderstanding the credit line remark. 

Furthermore, the psychological data clearly supports my position that credit card use leads to overspending vs. cash.

[arebelspy]

Kudos on completely misunderstanding the credit line remark. 

I just reread it, and can't see any other way that can be interpreted.  Tell me how you meant "people spend more at the grocery store when they have a large credit line" cause I only see one way it can be read.

Furthermore, the psychological data clearly supports my position that credit card use leads to overspending vs. cash.

Agreed.  As I said above:

I think cash envelope systems are great for those who have trouble controlling their spending. 

That's most people.

That shouldn't be Mustachians, once the mindset is anchored in and spending is aligned with values.

[Zikoris]

I operate on strictly plastic because I find cash way too easy to spend - knowing that any credit transactions I make will go in my "permanent Mint record" basically eliminates impulse buying entirely. Credit is the most "painful" for me, debit second, cash completely non-painful. As such, I use credit for 99% of purchases.

Anyone who thinks credit is causing me to spend more is welcome to look over my budget and try to spot anything that looks extravagant, or could be reduced by 10-20% - it's not there.

[Albert]

I usually pay cash for everything except hotels, anything online, train tickets or items more expensive than ca 100-150 chf. It's just a habit plus there are still some places here which are cash only. Besides we don't have those kinds of cash back deals.

[zinethstache]

I've recently become a mustachian and a mint user. I like mint on my cell phone so I can see how well we are tracking to our budget, pretty much real time. I shop at safeway and use their online coupon system as we shop. We are now consistently averaging 35% off without couponing. We eat out of our pantry and shop only what is on sale, except the perishable goods.

I use 2 rewards cards, one for business and the other for personal. I haven't had to pay for a plane ticket in many years now thanks to miles. The business rewards is generic, but I find we've only used it for travel, likely out of habit. I really should investigate the other rewards. We do plan to switch to a cash rewards card as these days our airplane travel is minimal and likely to stay that way.

I never carry cash because it just seems to disappear and next thing you know I've spent it and cannot allocate where it went. the card and mint take care of that for me.

ah, but we do "stache" bigger cash at home for larger cash friendly purchases i.e. craigslist shopping etc. so I don't have to go to the bank. I TRY (try being the operative word) to stock our cash stache with my side gig income which is sort of my funny money. I do allocate a small portion of business income to our monthly budget and any extra gets put in that stache. Sometimes it will buy a piece of used equipment for the business, but it has also bought tires/rims for our truck, and it even bought a tailgate for our truck that came without one.

[SMMcP]

I put every expense I possibly can my Southwest Airlines Visa card. This includes groceries, gasoline, insurance, utilities, healthcare, miscellaneous - everything possible. Since I spend about $3000/month this equates to about $60/month toward flights on Southwest. I use these points about 3 times a year to see family in another state. I don't think using the credit card causes me to spend more because I still have to enter my spending in YNAB and that's enough to keep me straight.

[smedleyb]

I put every expense I possibly can my Southwest Airlines Visa card. This includes groceries, gasoline, insurance, utilities, healthcare, miscellaneous - everything possible. Since I spend about $3000/month this equates to about $60/month toward flights on Southwest. I use these points about 3 times a year to see family in another state. I don't think using the credit card causes me to spend more because I still have to enter my spending in YNAB and that's enough to keep me straight.

Along these lines you should consider other Chase cards, such as the Sapphire, Freedom, or the business INK and INK Bold, which generate Ultimate Reward points.  Those points can in turn be moved over to your Southwest account (if you have the Sapphire or Ink card) on a one to one basis.  These other cards typically offer 2, 3, sometimes 5 points per dollar on many types of everyday spend.  It would be easy to turn that 30K spend into something closer to 60K Southwest points with the right card strategy, not to mention some of the cards come with hefty 40-50K sign up bonuses.   

 

[Matte]

I find cash is spent easier, credit card is documented and open to my wife for review (whether I want it or not)

[Mr.Macinstache]

I have no less than 3 stellar offers for 0% 18 months and reward points.

My question is, if I pay off a student loan with one of these cards, is that considered spending and do I get the points for that?

My student loan is 4.5% and the fee is 3% on the CC..... so not sure if it's worth it.

[Will]

Cash definitely spends easier; everyone takes cash.  I spend much less using credit or debit.  If I were to be on a cash-only system, I don't think it would be too difficult to spend 10-20% more without really even noticing until it was too late.   So anecdotal studies mean nothing to me; I know what my own reality is.

[Mr.Macinstache]

Cash definitely spends easier; everyone takes cash.  I spend much less using credit or debit.  If I were to be on a cash-only system, I don't think it would be too difficult to spend 10-20% more without really even noticing until it was too late.   So anecdotal studies mean nothing to me; I know what my own reality is.

Not for me.... credit swipes easier because I don't have to get back all that coins... I hate breaking 20's..so if I carry them I don't spend 'em. :)

[Will]

I have no less than 3 stellar offers for 0% 18 months and reward points.

My question is, if I pay off a student loan with one of these cards, is that considered spending and do I get the points for that?

My student loan is 4.5% and the fee is 3% on the CC..... so not sure if it's worth it.

If you are talking about using the "convenience" checks for a balance transfer (which if there is a 3% fee, I think that is what you are referring to), I don't think that counts as "spending" for rewards.

[Albert]

About spending more or less with card or cash, does anyone else find it difficult to keep check on spending when abroad and everything is in unfamiliar currency plus you don't know what is supposed to be cheap for the location and what not? Certainly the case for me...

[Bakari]

My theory is that those who use credit cards exclusively to buy everything, even if they pay off balance in full at end of month, invariably spend 10-20% more over the course of the year on discretionary (such as food,

how is food "discretionary"?

Clothing too, if you really want to nitpick.

I guess I had the silly idea that people spend more at the grocery store when they have a large credit line, or buy that extra item of clothing, etc.   But I guess we're all spartan spenders around here, right?

But I'll be more semantically rigorous in the future, I promise.     

Ok... so I spend more at the grocery store when I have a credit card on me than $20.  True.  Not because I splurge on the most expensive food I can find.  I buy the food I am going to buy.  I just buy more of it.  So it lasts longer.  If I spend twice as much each trip, but I go half as often, I am not really spending more, am I? 
The study about McDonalds is another example - people spend twice as much per trip, but they are getting twice the calories, so they gan go longer before the next meal (or the next meal is smaller) and the effect cancels out in the end.
If I buy more clothes, but now they get rotated more and last longer, so I don't have to go clothes shopping as soon, it all balances out.  The only way one could actually spend more TOTAL by spending more per trip is if they just threw out a bunch of food or clothes every month so that they could buy more.

Granted - some people actually DO throw out perfectly good clothes just so they can buy more, but is that really an issue of plastic vs paper?

For actual discretionary spending this may be true.  However, the truly Mustachian will tend to have very low to no discretionary spending.  This also may vary significantly depending if you are one who pays your card off in full every month, and if you look at your statements and/or budget.  I can't find the original study, so its unclear if these variables were addressed.
Perhaps many people do make a card abstract and "feel" paper money leaving.  Also possible its just that if you only have $20 in your pocket, thats the most you can spend at one time.  The former wouldn't surprise me though - people are stupid.  People make ALL SORTS of logical fallacies, but that doesn't mean they can't be avoided, with a little awareness.

[smedleyb]

My theory is that those who use credit cards exclusively to buy everything, even if they pay off balance in full at end of month, invariably spend 10-20% more over the course of the year on discretionary (such as food,

how is food "discretionary"?

Clothing too, if you really want to nitpick.

I guess I had the silly idea that people spend more at the grocery store when they have a large credit line, or buy that extra item of clothing, etc.   But I guess we're all spartan spenders around here, right?

But I'll be more semantically rigorous in the future, I promise.     

Ok... so I spend more at the grocery store when I have a credit card on me than $20.  True.  Not because I splurge on the most expensive food I can find.  I buy the food I am going to buy.  I just buy more of it.  So it lasts longer.  If I spend twice as much each trip, but I go half as often, I am not really spending more, am I? 
The study about McDonalds is another example - people spend twice as much per trip, but they are getting twice the calories, so they gan go longer before the next meal (or the next meal is smaller) and the effect cancels out in the end.
If I buy more clothes, but now they get rotated more and last longer, so I don't have to go clothes shopping as soon, it all balances out.  The only way one could actually spend more TOTAL by spending more per trip is if they just threw out a bunch of food or clothes every month so that they could buy more.

Granted - some people actually DO throw out perfectly good clothes just so they can buy more, but is that really an issue of plastic vs paper?

For actual discretionary spending this may be true.  However, the truly Mustachian will tend to have very low to no discretionary spending.  This also may vary significantly depending if you are one who pays your card off in full every month, and if you look at your statements and/or budget.  I can't find the original study, so its unclear if these variables were addressed.
Perhaps many people do make a card abstract and "feel" paper money leaving.  Also possible its just that if you only have $20 in your pocket, thats the most you can spend at one time.  The former wouldn't surprise me though - people are stupid.  People make ALL SORTS of logical fallacies, but that doesn't mean they can't be avoided, with a little awareness.

Human beings are not robots.  The temptation to overspend is build in all around us, as seen in the ubiquity of advertising and the move toward greater technology/credit expansion allowing for quicker and larger transactions.  Now, I've read your site top to bottom, watched your videos, and there's little doubt where you fall on the Mustachian spectrum!  You are the bad ass par excellence . 

But I maintain that you are fascinatingly unique; others -- like the OP who has student debt and is looking to make "big ticket purchases" with a card (read, buy new) -- as well as myself are prone to the pitfalls of overconsumption.  And the credit card industry has been there every step of the way to facilitate this nation's journey into massive indebtedness.  Can a good Mustachian exist at the margins, milking their 2% while maintaining an absolute rigid spending regimen?  Absolutely.  Will that be the typical behavior of the vast majority of card users?  Absolutely not, as study after study has shown.

The examples of overconsumption you cite above are cases of excess simply diminishing future need for consumption.   I would argue that in moments of overconsumption there is simply rank excess that never gets used.  Efficiency is great but difficult to achieve on a day to day basis.  But yes, the guy or gal with $50 in his or her pocket going to a grocery store will be much more circumspect about their purchases than someone with a credit card and access to 15K in purchasing power at any given moment.  Again, we're just human, and thus prone to error even as we strive to achieve some semblance of spending asceticism in our lives.

But thank you for the thoughtful response to my point.     

[Bakari]

Human beings are not robots.  The temptation to overspend is build in all around us, as seen in the ubiquity of advertising and the move toward greater technology/credit expansion allowing for quicker and larger transactions.  Now, I've read your site top to bottom, watched your videos, and there's little doubt where you fall on the Mustachian spectrum!  You are the bad ass par excellence . 

But I maintain that you are fascinatingly unique; others -- like the OP who has student debt and is looking to make "big ticket purchases" with a card (read, buy new) -- as well as myself are prone to the pitfalls of overconsumption.  And the credit card industry has been there every step of the way to facilitate this nation's journey into massive indebtedness.  Can a good Mustachian exist at the margins, milking their 2% while maintaining an absolute rigid spending regimen?  Absolutely.  Will that be the typical behavior of the vast majority of card users?  Absolutely not, as study after study has shown.

The examples of overconsumption you cite above are cases of excess simply diminishing future need for consumption.   I would argue that in moments of overconsumption there is simply rank excess that never gets used.  Efficiency is great but difficult to achieve on a day to day basis.  But yes, the guy or gal with $50 in his or her pocket going to a grocery store will be much more circumspect about their purchases than someone with a credit card and access to 15K in purchasing power at any given moment.  Again, we're just human, and thus prone to error even as we strive to achieve some semblance of spending asceticism in our lives.

But thank you for the thoughtful response to my point.   

As a description of "average" person, I don't doubt you are right - I already acknowledged that though:

For actual discretionary spending this may be true...This also may vary significantly depending if you are one who pays your card off in full every month, and if you look at your statements and/or budget.  I can't find the original study, so its unclear if these variables were addressed.
Perhaps many people do make a card abstract and "feel" paper money leaving.  Also possible its just that if you only have $20 in your pocket, thats the most you can spend at one time.  The former wouldn't surprise me though...

Part of the reason I objected was the implication that this automatically implies to everyone.  I don't think I am that unique.  Several people have already posted here to say that, (like myself), paper money doesn't feel real to them, because unlike with a card, the purchase isn't tracked and recorded.  When I client pays me in cash, it goes into the safe, and I have no idea how much is there day to day.  I can look at my bank account and credit balance, see trends on Mint, be reminded of every time I ate out.  With cash its just gone, with no accountability, and I can't help but to be aware of this at the moment of purchase.  I think to myself "eh, its just cash.  Got to spend it on something".
 I mention this only because 6 people above me have already said the same thing, so I'm pretty sure my case isn't just my own personal exceptionalism.  You can't always generalize from a study of average behavior to all individuals.  Often.  Maybe even usually.  But not always.

After all, the cash back rewards are paid for by the 55% of people who routinely carry a balance.  They pay enough in interest that the CCs all make a profit.  45% is a pretty large section of the population to not behave as they are supposed to.

[smedleyb]

How does one use CC's to buy stuff on craigslist?  How do you use CC's at the farmer's stand by the road buying some veggies and fruit?  How is it possible to extract a better deal from a merchant when you present them with a CC which costs them 3% to process?  I can think of numerous examples where paying everything on a CC and disdaining cash is materially detrimental to your financial health. 

And I won't even get into buying weed with a CC.  Good luck with that!

A disciplined mustachian should have no problem using cash or a CC.  They will always spend what the need to spend, nothing more.  What's perceived as more "real" (cash, credit card) is obvioiusly a matter of perception and convention.  But at a fundamentally mathematical level, over time shouldn't the guy with only $20 in his pocket have the advantage over the guy with a $25,000 credit line embedded into a shiny piece of plastic in his wallet, as far as the battle against "overspending" is concerned?     

[Bakari]

How does one use CC's to buy stuff on craigslist?  How do you use CC's at the farmer's stand by the road buying some veggies and fruit?  How is it possible to extract a better deal from a merchant when you present them with a CC which costs them 3% to process?  I can think of numerous examples where paying everything on a CC and disdaining cash is materially detrimental to your financial health. 

And I won't even get into buying weed with a CC.  Good luck with that!

A disciplined mustachian should have no problem using cash or a CC.  They will always spend what the need to spend, nothing more.  What's perceived as more "real" (cash, credit card) is obvioiusly a matter of perception and convention.  But at a fundamentally mathematical level, over time shouldn't the guy with only $20 in his pocket have the advantage over the guy with a $25,000 credit line embedded into a shiny piece of plastic in his wallet, as far as the battle against "overspending" is concerned?   

I think you just pointed out why it works both ways!
The guy with only a piece of plastic in his pocket and no national currency has the equivalent of zero dollars available when he wants to buy weed or something from a roadside stand or a garage sale.  So he has no choice but to forgo these impulse buys completely.
Come to think of it, there was a time when I carried a CC, but no debit card, because I couldn't withdraw cash from the ATM with a CC, and so I simply couldn't buy certain things.

[Undecided]

And I won't even get into buying weed with a CC.  Good luck with that!

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[m8547]

One thing that larger merchants get for the credit card processing fee is the ability to track your purchases. For example, if you pay with a card at Target, you will get coupons related to things you have bought there in the past, or buy regularly. I've been to other stores where I've bought things online, and when I buy something in the store they offer to email me a receipt, despite me not giving them my email address in the store. Not too many stores use CC info for targeted marketing yet, but you can be sure that they are using the data internally.

[kendallf]

I have been going a little nuts with the rewards CC game lately myself.  The main reason it's working well for me, ironically, is that I'm not as Mustachian as I want to be eventually; I'm still spending quite a bit of money each month and we're traveling quite a bit.  I think the best offers relate to travel (i.e., you can get more value for your dollar from hotels and airlines than in cash). 

I'm using the Mint recommendation feature to find cards with hefty sign up bonuses, and then looking through websites like Nerdwallet for any better deals.  I also have been reading The Points Guy's recommendations for cards, although his hefty spending and traveling means that cards that are good deals for him just aren't for me. 

One valuable tip for me was that there are 'targeted offers' that can be more generous than the general public ones.  I used the card matching tool at https://www.creditcards.com/cardmatch/?a_aid=1004&a_cid=10046/ and this just let me get a Delta Gold Amex with a 45,000 mile bonus instead of the generally available 30,000 mile bonus.

[Dendrite]

I use credit cards for everything I can. Many cards off cash or frequent flyer bonus after you spend a certain amount on them in a certain time frame. So I sign up for a new card or two everything few months and put my spend on them until I've met that minimum spend amount. And of course I always pay off the complete amount before it is due. I have financed some very low cost travel for myself and family members this way. I find that I spend less using a credit card because it will show up on mint, so I guess it keeps me honest.

[DocLago]

I remember the snippet in Dave Ramsey's seminars about how cash is harder to spend than card because you feel it more when it comes out. 

I don't agree with this theory.  I am a farely simple person when it comes to spending money.  If I see something I want, I will buy it.  Regardless of cash or credit.  The only reason I feel cash is harder to spend than card is because it takes up too much damn room in my pocket.  And then change.  CHANGE.  Oh how I hate change.  It sits there in my car or my coffee can and stares at me "what are you gonna try to spend me on, I'm only like 20$ max, have fun counting me and sorting me".

I don't even carry my wallet on my 90% of the time when I'm out, let alone cash.  I carry my ID and my debit card in my Jean pocket, it fits nicely there.  No fumbling, no counting, just swipe, pin, walk away.
/end rant

[arebelspy]

You sound almost exactly like me!

I am a farely simple person when it comes to spending money.  If I see something I want, I will buy it.  Regardless of cash or credit.

Agreed.

The only reason I feel cash is harder to spend than card is because it takes up too much damn room in my pocket.  And then change.  CHANGE.  Oh how I hate change.  It sits there in my car or my coffee can and stares at me "what are you gonna try to spend me on, I'm only like 20$ max, have fun counting me and sorting me".

AMEN!

I don't even carry my wallet on my 90% of the time when I'm out, let alone cash.  I carry my ID and my debit card in my Jean pocket, it fits nicely there.  No fumbling, no counting, just swipe, pin, walk away.

Ditto, only instead of in my pocket, it's in my iPhone case.  For the last year and 1/2 I've had that on my phone.  It holds my ID, debit card, and credit card and is still quite slim.  Then I only have to grab one thing when I leave, my phone.

(Yes, there is the issue of losing my phone = losing my wallet.  Okay?  I've never lost a phone, so I'm not worried about it.  I have lost a wallet.  If anything it makes me less likely to lose it, as I keep track of it a lot more.)

[DocLago]

Ditto, only instead of in my pocket, it's in my iPhone case.  For the last year and 1/2 I've had that on my phone.  It holds my ID, debit card, and credit card and is still quite slim.  Then I only have to grab one thing when I leave, my phone.

(Yes, there is the issue of losing my phone = losing my wallet.  Okay?  I've never lost a phone, so I'm not worried about it.  I have lost a wallet.  If anything it makes me less likely to lose it, as I keep track of it a lot more.)

That might just be the coolest thing I've ever seen and the fact that I haven't run across something like that in the past is beyond me.

[Will]

Ditto, only instead of in my pocket, it's in my iPhone case.  For the last year and 1/2 I've had that on my phone.  It holds my ID, debit card, and credit card and is still quite slim.  Then I only have to grab one thing when I leave, my phone.

(Yes, there is the issue of losing my phone = losing my wallet.  Okay?  I've never lost a phone, so I'm not worried about it.  I have lost a wallet.  If anything it makes me less likely to lose it, as I keep track of it a lot more.)

That might just be the coolest thing I've ever seen and the fact that I haven't run across something like that in the past is beyond me.

+1!  Now excuse me while I go see if there is something like this for my Galaxy...

[galliver]

So about that "cash feels more real" study (can't find the post to quote): has anyone considered there might be a generational difference here? People who grew up before online banking, Mint, etc were a thing might see cash as more concrete. But those of us who have always gotten paid by direct deposit, used debit or credit to pay, and then checked the balances online (even pre-Mint), the numbers are more real than the cash. Of course, I mean on a population level rather than individuals.

About spending more or less with card or cash, does anyone else find it difficult to keep check on spending when abroad and everything is in unfamiliar currency plus you don't know what is supposed to be cheap for the location and what not? Certainly the case for me...

When it's an extreme conversion rate, you can round it and quick convert in your head (e.g. I was in Russia and it was $1:28rub. so I used 1:30 to convert) but it does get you into trouble with larger values when the details matter. I think I'd have trouble with a currency that was close, like euros or CAD.

How does one use CC's to buy stuff on craigslist?  How do you use CC's at the farmer's stand by the road buying some veggies and fruit?  How is it possible to extract a better deal from a merchant when you present them with a CC which costs them 3% to process?  I can think of numerous examples where paying everything on a CC and disdaining cash is materially detrimental to your financial health. 

And I won't even get into buying weed with a CC.  Good luck with that!

Discover lets you get cash back at stores just like a debit card, and then tacks that on your bill at the end of the month. Effectively, you're putting that cash purchase on your card....

[Mississippi Mudstache]

So about that "cash feels more real" study (can't find the post to quote): has anyone considered there might be a generational difference here?

Absolutely. When cash leaves my hands, it's gone. I never have to think about it again. But when I put something on a debit card or a credit card, the transaction is recorded to be re-lived at the end of the month, when I'm checking my statements, then filed away for all of eternity. When I track my spending, credit and debit card purchases get tracked and assigned to a category, whereas ATM withdrawals tend to get lumped under "Other". Credit and debit card spending is much more "real" to me than cash spending. I generally carry around little or no cash, unless I'm going somewhere where I know I'll have to spend money and I know they won't accept credit cards.

[galliver]

So about that "cash feels more real" study (can't find the post to quote): has anyone considered there might be a generational difference here?

Absolutely. When cash leaves my hands, it's gone. I never have to think about it again. But when I put something on a debit card or a credit card, the transaction is recorded to be re-lived at the end of the month, when I'm checking my statements, then filed away for all of eternity. When I track my spending, credit and debit card purchases get tracked and assigned to a category, whereas ATM withdrawals tend to get lumped under "Other". Credit and debit card spending is much more "real" to me than cash spending. I generally carry around little or no cash, unless I'm going somewhere where I know I'll have to spend money and I know they won't accept credit cards.

Incidentally, I also spend cash much easier than credit like many of the above. :)

[Will]

So about that "cash feels more real" study (can't find the post to quote): has anyone considered there might be a generational difference here?

What generations are we talking about here?  I am Gen X and in the "cash spends much easier" camp.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I guess I'm a Millenial? Gen Y? I'm not even sure what the difference is, or if there is one. I was born in 1983.