Author Topic: Pandemic hoarding  (Read 263312 times)

Imma

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1400 on: August 30, 2022, 12:46:16 AM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1401 on: August 30, 2022, 12:05:15 PM »
K_in_the_Kitchen can you post the recipe for the bread, rolls, etc.?

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1402 on: August 30, 2022, 08:08:41 PM »
K_in_the_Kitchen can you post the recipe for the bread, rolls, etc.?

This recipe was originally from a big called "Scratch It With Sandy" that appears to no longer be a valid website.  I've added my notes :)  Also, I have big bread tins, so I double the recipe, and then I can bake three items, usually two loaves of bread and one of the following: pan of dinner rolls, pan of cinnamon rolls, or pan of New England style hot dog buns.

INGREDIENTS:

2 C warm water about 110-120 degrees
⅔ C white sugar (this is a lot, and it makes the bread delicious, but you can cut it down)
1½ T yeast (I use SAF Instant, and the time I used regular yeast it took a long time to rise)
1½ t salt
¼ C vegetable oil (I use avocado oil or a stick of butter, melted)
6 C flour (I use all purpose unbleached and it works beautifully)

INSTRUCTIONS (as written by recipe author):

Place sugar and water in bowl
Sprinkle with yeast and let dissolve 5-15 minutes
Add salt, oil and half the flour mix together.
Add remaining flour. Change to dough hook and mix till its pulling away from the sides.
Pull out onto lightly floured surface and knead shortly
Place in greased bowl flipping to cover both sides.
Top with saran wrap or damp warm towel
Set aside in draft free area and let rise till doubles in size. About 1 hour
Remove cover and punch down.
Lay out on lightly floured surface and cut in half.
Flaten out into rectangle and "jelly" roll into a loaf.
Pinch ends together and place in greased 9x5 bread pans.
Repeat with other half.
Cover and let rise till double in size about 30-50 minutes.
Pre-heat oven to 350 degrees.
Once double in size bake for 25-30 minutes.
Pull out and brush top with butter.
Let rest 10 minutes before removing to cooling rack

I find these instructions inadequate and use my own method, adapted for my mixer which is an Ankarsrum. For my mixer I add water, oil, salt, sugar, and half the flour, mix briefly, add instant yeast, and then quickly add the rest of the flour.  Once it's incorporated and the dough is slightly tacky but not sticky at all, I mix for about 5 minutes on a medium low speed using the roller and scraper, not the dough hook.  I'm going to assume you know the rest of the process for baking bread, lol.  A few tricks I use are rising the dough in a container marked with quarts so I can clearly see the doubling, doing a 10 minute bench rest after dividing dough but before forming rolls or loaves, forming rolls and loaves on a silicone mat and never adding flour at that stage, and using plastic hair processing caps to cover my items as they do the final rise.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1403 on: August 31, 2022, 07:25:50 AM »
K_in_the_kitchen

Thanks for the recipe!

TomTX

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1404 on: August 31, 2022, 11:11:24 AM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.
Yes, nitrogen fertilizer is produced from natural gas (methane) with CO2 for a substantial waste product.

Imma

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1405 on: August 31, 2022, 12:34:41 PM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.
Yes, nitrogen fertilizer is produced from natural gas (methane) with CO2 for a substantial waste product.

I knew about how nitrogen fertilizer was made but I had no idea dry ice was a byproduct of nitrogen fertilizer. My grocery supplier is now figuring out how to deliver frozen food in the future, if at all. Dry ice was a sustainable choice because it's a byproduct that otherwise would have been thrown away. The other option is to build freezers in all of their vans and that's going to have a certain environmental impact. Their vans are all electric, so I assume a freezer would absolutely drain the battery.

dandarc

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1406 on: August 31, 2022, 01:02:38 PM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.
Yes, nitrogen fertilizer is produced from natural gas (methane) with CO2 for a substantial waste product.

I knew about how nitrogen fertilizer was made but I had no idea dry ice was a byproduct of nitrogen fertilizer. My grocery supplier is now figuring out how to deliver frozen food in the future, if at all. Dry ice was a sustainable choice because it's a byproduct that otherwise would have been thrown away. The other option is to build freezers in all of their vans and that's going to have a certain environmental impact. Their vans are all electric, so I assume a freezer would absolutely drain the battery.
I don't know, for $300 on Amazon you can get a small freezer that runs off the cigarette lighter. Not sure it would necessarily be a substantial draw vs. energy needed to move the van.

Cranky

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1407 on: August 31, 2022, 01:09:58 PM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.
Yes, nitrogen fertilizer is produced from natural gas (methane) with CO2 for a substantial waste product.

I knew about how nitrogen fertilizer was made but I had no idea dry ice was a byproduct of nitrogen fertilizer. My grocery supplier is now figuring out how to deliver frozen food in the future, if at all. Dry ice was a sustainable choice because it's a byproduct that otherwise would have been thrown away. The other option is to build freezers in all of their vans and that's going to have a certain environmental impact. Their vans are all electric, so I assume a freezer would absolutely drain the battery.

Are they shipping these, or driving them from the store to your house?

Meal kits are shipped in boxes with insulation and freezer packs (not dry ice) and they are cold for several days.

Groceries are delivered in thermal bags with a regular ice pack, too - I've never had any dry ice involved in food delivery, unless you get something like ice cream shipped across the country.

Imma

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1408 on: August 31, 2022, 11:58:05 PM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.
Yes, nitrogen fertilizer is produced from natural gas (methane) with CO2 for a substantial waste product.

I knew about how nitrogen fertilizer was made but I had no idea dry ice was a byproduct of nitrogen fertilizer. My grocery supplier is now figuring out how to deliver frozen food in the future, if at all. Dry ice was a sustainable choice because it's a byproduct that otherwise would have been thrown away. The other option is to build freezers in all of their vans and that's going to have a certain environmental impact. Their vans are all electric, so I assume a freezer would absolutely drain the battery.

Are they shipping these, or driving them from the store to your house?

Meal kits are shipped in boxes with insulation and freezer packs (not dry ice) and they are cold for several days.

Groceries are delivered in thermal bags with a regular ice pack, too - I've never had any dry ice involved in food delivery, unless you get something like ice cream shipped across the country.

I get my groceries from a nationwide grocery delivery company, they are driving them in specially designed vehicles to my house but they don't have stores. Their whole thing is that not having stores is more sustainable because it creates much fewer waste  - they only order from their supplies what their customers have ordered from them, so no leftovers get thrown out. Their electric vehicles have doors that slide open to the side and there are crates filled with the groceries for every customer (they are put in reusable bags in the crates). I know the frozen stuff comes from the black crates to the left but I had no idea how those were kept cold untill I read their press release. Picnic vans: https://picnic.app/nl/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/2020/11/runnerbijepv.jpg I just get my bag of freezer items from the black crates.  I imagine that if they take the decision to put freezers in those vans, that's going to cost a ton of money.


Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1409 on: September 09, 2022, 10:35:33 AM »
If you see the price of olive oil up significantly, this article explains how they have had a terrible drought and crops are not producing as they should. The pictures in this article are quite impressive.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/09/business/olive-oil-shortage-drought-cnnphotos/

Dicey

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1410 on: September 09, 2022, 12:30:31 PM »
If you see the price of olive oil up significantly, this article explains how they have had a terrible drought and crops are not producing as they should. The pictures in this article are quite impressive.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/09/business/olive-oil-shortage-drought-cnnphotos/
Well, I wasn't planning a Costco run, but I guess I'll work a trip in. Sir Google says that properly stored, EVOO can last 2-4 years. Okay then, right on topic.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1411 on: September 09, 2022, 02:59:44 PM »
Dicey, good to know the shelf life of olive oil. It is best to keep it in a dark place too.

Bartlebooth

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1412 on: September 09, 2022, 03:49:11 PM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.
Yes, nitrogen fertilizer is produced from natural gas (methane) with CO2 for a substantial waste product.

I knew about how nitrogen fertilizer was made but I had no idea dry ice was a byproduct of nitrogen fertilizer. My grocery supplier is now figuring out how to deliver frozen food in the future, if at all. Dry ice was a sustainable choice because it's a byproduct that otherwise would have been thrown away. The other option is to build freezers in all of their vans and that's going to have a certain environmental impact. Their vans are all electric, so I assume a freezer would absolutely drain the battery.
I don't know, for $300 on Amazon you can get a small freezer that runs off the cigarette lighter. Not sure it would necessarily be a substantial draw vs. energy needed to move the van.

Typical electric car is somewhere around 300 watt-hours consumed per mile.  Typical home refrigerator uses 2 kWh per day, figure about the same for a smaller yet less efficient fridge with various loadings/unloadings.  So it would use about 7 miles of range to run a refrigerator.

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1413 on: September 09, 2022, 05:42:32 PM »
If you see the price of olive oil up significantly, this article explains how they have had a terrible drought and crops are not producing as they should. The pictures in this article are quite impressive.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/09/business/olive-oil-shortage-drought-cnnphotos/

Thanks for the info -- I guess it's time to stock a little more than I have right now!  We have a friend who produces premium olive oil (award winning), and he really opened my eyes to what's going on in the olive oil world, even among products that are 100% extra virgin.  I buy the California EVOO from Costco, and he told me it's a premium producer who sells their entire production to Costco.  Our friend's EVOOs are amazing, but not Mustachian.  I also buy the Costco organic EVOO, mostly because our young adult kids pour it out on rice, potatoes, bread, etc.

Dicey

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1414 on: September 09, 2022, 07:38:08 PM »
Dicey, good to know the shelf life of olive oil. It is best to keep it in a dark place too.
Hehe, I went to Costco today.

PSA #1: A 2 liter of Organic EVOO was 11.99, while the non-organic was 14.99. Huh? Different origin, perhaps? I didn't look that hard,  I just grabbed 4 of the cheaper one. Here's the best part: our clown house came with a fancy-pants wine fridge. We don't drink, so I'm going to store it in there at 60 degrees F, which Sir G says should make it last for four years. I'll use it up faster than that, but at least it won't turn rancid and that damn fridge will be doing something useful.

PSA #2: If you like Costco's yummy but ever more expensive Pesto, it's $2.00 off until 9/11/22, i.e. soon.  I bought 5 and stuck them in the freezer. I assure you, they freeze and defrost just fine. Paging @lhamo, because I owe her one.

Hadilly

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1415 on: September 11, 2022, 07:50:50 AM »
Dicey, I appreciate your PSAs! I have to go to Costco today and will follow in your footsteps! I already bought canned tomatoes copying you.

Catbert

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1416 on: September 11, 2022, 12:22:31 PM »
Dicey, I appreciate your PSAs! I have to go to Costco today and will follow in your footsteps! I already bought canned tomatoes copying you.

Me too.  Already got the GO tomatoes and stopped this morning at Costco for the EVOO.  BTW more expensive non-organic EVOO is made from Italian olives and the organic version from a host of European countries not including italy.  Like Dicey I opted for the cheaper organic bottles.

So my tip is that Costco had real vanilla for $12.  I think I paid $22 a while back (6 months? a year? who knows) after waiting as long as I could.

Imma

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1417 on: September 12, 2022, 03:16:53 AM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.
Yes, nitrogen fertilizer is produced from natural gas (methane) with CO2 for a substantial waste product.

I knew about how nitrogen fertilizer was made but I had no idea dry ice was a byproduct of nitrogen fertilizer. My grocery supplier is now figuring out how to deliver frozen food in the future, if at all. Dry ice was a sustainable choice because it's a byproduct that otherwise would have been thrown away. The other option is to build freezers in all of their vans and that's going to have a certain environmental impact. Their vans are all electric, so I assume a freezer would absolutely drain the battery.
I don't know, for $300 on Amazon you can get a small freezer that runs off the cigarette lighter. Not sure it would necessarily be a substantial draw vs. energy needed to move the van.

Typical electric car is somewhere around 300 watt-hours consumed per mile.  Typical home refrigerator uses 2 kWh per day, figure about the same for a smaller yet less efficient fridge with various loadings/unloadings.  So it would use about 7 miles of range to run a refrigerator.

I'm sure that's true for a small freezer that runs off the cigarette lighter, but obviously the costs are very different for a business. First of all, their freezer is going to have to be much bigger than a mini freezer off Amazon. Say half of their customers on a typical run (so maybe half of 25 customers?) order frozen food. Secondly they need to be built into all of their vans, or at least into all the vans that work from the same distribution center, at the same time, otherwise their warehouse people will go crazy. And then thirdly the freezer needs to somehow be built into their custom designed van that works with their warehousing system, so that probably requires a custom designed freezer as well. The costs associated with that all of that are gigantic, versus working with a waste product that's almost free and is integrated with the current warehouse system.

For a large company, a tiny little switch like that is absolutely massive, so I totally understand why they're just not delivering freezer products, while they are pricing out the different options. I would not be surprised if not delivering freezer products again would be the cheapest option. Most frozen food that people order probably has a low profit margin (stuff like ice cream, cheap frozen veggies and frozen pizza) and never delivering those again probably won't annoy people enough to permanently switch to the competitor. Their main competitor uses regular vans with a freezer compartment but is much more expensive.

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1418 on: September 12, 2022, 10:45:34 AM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.
Yes, nitrogen fertilizer is produced from natural gas (methane) with CO2 for a substantial waste product.

I knew about how nitrogen fertilizer was made but I had no idea dry ice was a byproduct of nitrogen fertilizer. My grocery supplier is now figuring out how to deliver frozen food in the future, if at all. Dry ice was a sustainable choice because it's a byproduct that otherwise would have been thrown away. The other option is to build freezers in all of their vans and that's going to have a certain environmental impact. Their vans are all electric, so I assume a freezer would absolutely drain the battery.
I don't know, for $300 on Amazon you can get a small freezer that runs off the cigarette lighter. Not sure it would necessarily be a substantial draw vs. energy needed to move the van.

Typical electric car is somewhere around 300 watt-hours consumed per mile.  Typical home refrigerator uses 2 kWh per day, figure about the same for a smaller yet less efficient fridge with various loadings/unloadings.  So it would use about 7 miles of range to run a refrigerator.

I'm sure that's true for a small freezer that runs off the cigarette lighter, but obviously the costs are very different for a business. First of all, their freezer is going to have to be much bigger than a mini freezer off Amazon. Say half of their customers on a typical run (so maybe half of 25 customers?) order frozen food. Secondly they need to be built into all of their vans, or at least into all the vans that work from the same distribution center, at the same time, otherwise their warehouse people will go crazy. And then thirdly the freezer needs to somehow be built into their custom designed van that works with their warehousing system, so that probably requires a custom designed freezer as well. The costs associated with that all of that are gigantic, versus working with a waste product that's almost free and is integrated with the current warehouse system.

For a large company, a tiny little switch like that is absolutely massive, so I totally understand why they're just not delivering freezer products, while they are pricing out the different options. I would not be surprised if not delivering freezer products again would be the cheapest option. Most frozen food that people order probably has a low profit margin (stuff like ice cream, cheap frozen veggies and frozen pizza) and never delivering those again probably won't annoy people enough to permanently switch to the competitor. Their main competitor uses regular vans with a freezer compartment but is much more expensive.

It occurs to me that the other issue here is what happens where the groceries are delivered.  Many people are not at home when grocery deliveries arrive -- the kind that have dry ice, like ButcherBox, not the Instacart type of delivery.  Dry ice helps keep the order cold until the person comes home.

I think the reality is that it's not sustainable to have groceries being driven around and delivered.  It becomes ridiculous to be outfitting vans with refrigeration and freezers to provide grocery delivery for the masses.  Getting groceries from the store -- either by going inside or doing a pick up order where they bring it to your car -- makes the most sense.  This is the model we have returned to, we're cancelling ButcherBox and only using Instacart for delivery in emergency type situation.  For example, my college kid is super sick -- waiting for Covid and flu test results -- and needed fresh groceries because he'd been out of town for week for an athletic competition.  I placed an Instacart delivery order for him.  But as we return to cooler weather this fall and winter (fingers crossed anyway), we have two options in place for grocery pick up without markups or tips -- Sprouts (using Instacart) and Sam's Club (using Plus membership).

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1419 on: September 13, 2022, 10:48:26 AM »
Made it to Costco last night and bought two bottle of the organic EVOO, plus two of the fancy California EVOOs.  We were using our executive rebate check to stock up and also bought toilet paper, All laundry detergent, Dawn dish soap, Mr. Clean erasers, avocado oil, a bag of frozen mango, 10# organic sugar, 8# butter, a jar of pickles, and 8 jars of peaches (2 sets of 4).  This trip will help keep the grocery bill lower for several months.

I also got my refund for the "local" honey they sold that ended up not being as advertised.  According to the clerk helping me she could find that I had bought 6 bottles in the past, and I got $63 refunded.  Yes, we used the honey, but it was the principle of the matter -- I was irked to have paid $10 per bottle of honey and not have gotten what I paid for.  I specifically chose local honey to avoid getting imported China honey.  They sent a card out alerting us to the situation and offering the refund.  Anyway, if anyone else bought the "local" honey from Costco (where it was from varied by state), you can go in and get a refund even if you bought it in the past and aren't returning the product.

Is anyone else encountering egg shortages?  Costco didn't have anything but the organic eggs, and Sam's Club doesn't have the 5 dozen package of regular eggs, just 2 dozen regular eggs priced higher than the organic eggs.  I need to get back to Aldi ASAP and see if they still have eggs at $2.37 per dozen like they did last week, which astoundingly is the best price I can find.  I should have stocked up.

Josiecat22222

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1420 on: September 13, 2022, 10:57:07 AM »
@K_in_the_kitchen, I don't know where you are located, but at my local Kroger I paid 9.62 for 60 eggs today...so about 2$ per dozen.  It's a far cry from the prepandemic price, but the best I've seen for a while

Imma

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1421 on: September 13, 2022, 12:05:45 PM »
Well, the company that delivers my groceries just let me know they will stop delivering frozen food from Sept. 1 since apparantly you can't get dry ice anywhere. I had no idea but dry ice is basically a leftover product from making artificial fertilizer, and with the current gas prices many plants making artificial fertilizer have significantly scaled back production.
Yes, nitrogen fertilizer is produced from natural gas (methane) with CO2 for a substantial waste product.

I knew about how nitrogen fertilizer was made but I had no idea dry ice was a byproduct of nitrogen fertilizer. My grocery supplier is now figuring out how to deliver frozen food in the future, if at all. Dry ice was a sustainable choice because it's a byproduct that otherwise would have been thrown away. The other option is to build freezers in all of their vans and that's going to have a certain environmental impact. Their vans are all electric, so I assume a freezer would absolutely drain the battery.
I don't know, for $300 on Amazon you can get a small freezer that runs off the cigarette lighter. Not sure it would necessarily be a substantial draw vs. energy needed to move the van.

Typical electric car is somewhere around 300 watt-hours consumed per mile.  Typical home refrigerator uses 2 kWh per day, figure about the same for a smaller yet less efficient fridge with various loadings/unloadings.  So it would use about 7 miles of range to run a refrigerator.

I'm sure that's true for a small freezer that runs off the cigarette lighter, but obviously the costs are very different for a business. First of all, their freezer is going to have to be much bigger than a mini freezer off Amazon. Say half of their customers on a typical run (so maybe half of 25 customers?) order frozen food. Secondly they need to be built into all of their vans, or at least into all the vans that work from the same distribution center, at the same time, otherwise their warehouse people will go crazy. And then thirdly the freezer needs to somehow be built into their custom designed van that works with their warehousing system, so that probably requires a custom designed freezer as well. The costs associated with that all of that are gigantic, versus working with a waste product that's almost free and is integrated with the current warehouse system.

For a large company, a tiny little switch like that is absolutely massive, so I totally understand why they're just not delivering freezer products, while they are pricing out the different options. I would not be surprised if not delivering freezer products again would be the cheapest option. Most frozen food that people order probably has a low profit margin (stuff like ice cream, cheap frozen veggies and frozen pizza) and never delivering those again probably won't annoy people enough to permanently switch to the competitor. Their main competitor uses regular vans with a freezer compartment but is much more expensive.

It occurs to me that the other issue here is what happens where the groceries are delivered.  Many people are not at home when grocery deliveries arrive -- the kind that have dry ice, like ButcherBox, not the Instacart type of delivery.  Dry ice helps keep the order cold until the person comes home.

I think the reality is that it's not sustainable to have groceries being driven around and delivered.  It becomes ridiculous to be outfitting vans with refrigeration and freezers to provide grocery delivery for the masses.  Getting groceries from the store -- either by going inside or doing a pick up order where they bring it to your car -- makes the most sense.  This is the model we have returned to, we're cancelling ButcherBox and only using Instacart for delivery in emergency type situation.  For example, my college kid is super sick -- waiting for Covid and flu test results -- and needed fresh groceries because he'd been out of town for week for an athletic competition.  I placed an Instacart delivery order for him.  But as we return to cooler weather this fall and winter (fingers crossed anyway), we have two options in place for grocery pick up without markups or tips -- Sprouts (using Instacart) and Sam's Club (using Plus membership).

I'm not actually sure it's more efficient to have everyone buy a car and congest all the streets with parked cars, just so people can all get in their cars once a week to buy groceries. It's much more efficient to have one person driving around delivering everything. I'm in a very urban city in Europe where half of the people don't even have a car and those who do typically only use it for the weekly grocery shop and occasional outings. Parking on your own property is not an option for homes under a million and our grocery store only has like 25 parking spaces. So there's a lot of infrastructure needed just to allow people to drive their cars to the grocery store once a week, that we could do many more useful things with, and the weekly shop is still a huge hassle - driving through the neighbourhood five times before you can even park your car anywhere near the store. We don't have a car so if we didn't get things delivered we'd be walking to the grocery store every day. I also have a disability which would make it difficult for me to get any heavy items home on foot at all.

And it's not actually a new thing. Back in the days all groceries were delivered. When I was a kid groceries, vegetables and milk were still sold by a guy in a van who went from house to house. Those services stopped when women started to get jobs but now so many people are back at home it makes sense that these kind of services start again.

Leaving deliveries in front of someone's house is also a thing people seem to do in the US but not here. My grocery supplier takes your order back and charges a fee if you're not home. Mail also can't be left in front of your house, it's taken back to the post office.

slappy

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1422 on: September 13, 2022, 01:50:07 PM »
@K_in_the_kitchen, I don't know where you are located, but at my local Kroger I paid 9.62 for 60 eggs today...so about 2$ per dozen.  It's a far cry from the prepandemic price, but the best I've seen for a while

In my area, eggs are $3 a dozen.

dandarc

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1423 on: September 13, 2022, 01:56:46 PM »
I paid $5 yesterday, but I have to get "pasture raised" level eggs or better for household harmony reasons.

coppertop

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1424 on: September 15, 2022, 08:19:28 AM »
Conventional eggs at Aldi were $2.09 here yesterday in the Baltimore suburbs; I paid more to get the cage-free eggs.  I can't remember the price, but they were certainly less than $4 for the dozen.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1425 on: September 16, 2022, 10:31:37 AM »
I went to order my go-to olive oil from Costco, the Kirkland extra virgin olive oil and it is out of stock. The other jugs of olive oil are kind of too big and I didn't want to open a giant jug and have it sit and get rancid. So, I am buying: Napa Valley Naturals USDA Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil 25.4 oz, 6-count. Never bought that before and not sure if it is a good deal or not. It was $59.99 for 6 bottles. It is more convenient for me to have smaller amounts open at a time. It comes in bottles like wine bottles. There is another Kirkland olive oil I would have bought but it was a 2 liter bottle and the limit was one. So, I think we may see a shortage of OO in due time.


K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1426 on: September 16, 2022, 11:05:15 AM »
I went to order my go-to olive oil from Costco, the Kirkland extra virgin olive oil and it is out of stock. The other jugs of olive oil are kind of too big and I didn't want to open a giant jug and have it sit and get rancid. So, I am buying: Napa Valley Naturals USDA Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil 25.4 oz, 6-count. Never bought that before and not sure if it is a good deal or not. It was $59.99 for 6 bottles. It is more convenient for me to have smaller amounts open at a time. It comes in bottles like wine bottles. There is another Kirkland olive oil I would have bought but it was a 2 liter bottle and the limit was one. So, I think we may see a shortage of OO in due time.

I totally understand this -- if my kid wasn't living here I wouldn't buy the 2 liter bottle of EVOO.  We use EVOO for dressing salads, cooking fried eggs (best to prevent sticking in cast iron), in homemade whole wheat bread, and for sautéing some vegetables.  My preference is the for the 1 liter California EVOO but I don't see it online (I can buy it in warehouse and via sameday, but my guess is that's a regional offering).

I think that's a good price for the Napa Valley Naturals, especially considering it's delivered.  The 25.4 oz. bottle is on sale for $11.74 through Azure Standard (10% off regular price), and that's not delivered -- you have to meet the delivery truck.  You'll have to let us know what you think about the quality.

EVOO isn't something I will store a year's worth of because it goes bad in 12-18 months for EVOO unopened and stored in a dark, cool place, meaning in my house it would go rancid more quickly (house is between 78 - 80°F for 6 months of the year).  Plus there is also subtle rancidity and I'm a super taster with a sensitive nose.  So I have to think about what I might do if we can't get EVOO in 2023.  I could plan on paying a premium, and/or just use less of it.  With my oldest away at university I could use melted butter in the bread recipe for now (but butter is pricey right now).

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1427 on: September 16, 2022, 11:39:45 AM »
When I bought the olive oil I didn't think to buy elsewhere because I always but it at Costco. But today, I took a look at Walmart online and see they have different brands of olive oil if anyone is interested.

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1428 on: September 16, 2022, 04:23:46 PM »
When I bought the olive oil I didn't think to buy elsewhere because I always but it at Costco. But today, I took a look at Walmart online and see they have different brands of olive oil if anyone is interested.

In particular I trust the Costco Kirkland brand to honestly be 100% EVOO, not diluted with other oils.  Same for Costco honey (despite the recent issue of the local honey not being 100% local, it was still 100% honey).  It's a shame that some many places we can't count on what we buy being truly what they say it is.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1429 on: September 16, 2022, 05:24:49 PM »
K_in_the_kitchen I saw you mentioned you were not going to continue with Butcher Box. Is there a particular reason. I have had some really good experiences but a few bad ones too. When I report that the meat is not good, they always seem to refund me. We are just two people and I think if I was trying to feed a family, I would find it too expensive. For two, it works out pretty good. I have to say, I do not mind paying the price of the meat all that much. I watched a tv show on these people who travel around the country and find interesting places to eat at. They featured this restaurant in Michigan. They didn't talk prices on the show so afterwards, I looked up the menu. One hamburger was $20 and if you wanted cheese, it was $2 extra! I am not sure if it came with French fries or not but that is pretty expensive! Then I look at the prices of Butcher Box and calculate prices and nowhere near as bad as restaurant prices! I know they have overhead, but I would rather eat at home anyway! This particular restaurant was super expensive. A rib eye was around $36, and a fillet mignon was around $42! Most items on the menu were ala cart. So, you had to buy your salad, meat and sides separately. By the time you had your meal, an appetizer, dessert, a couple of cocktails and tip, you are probably talking a $300 dinner for two! The cocktails were super expensive too. Who are these people who can afford this! I feel like I eat like a king buying my meat thru Butcher box. However, i also buy some hamburgers thru QVC and it is the Rastelli brand which is very upscale. QVC offers free shipping too. I have bought meat, online, thru Costco too. I am very happy with my purchases. There are other places that I have bought meat too and have been very good.

Dicey

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1430 on: September 17, 2022, 01:14:20 AM »
When I bought the olive oil I didn't think to buy elsewhere because I always but it at Costco. But today, I took a look at Walmart online and see they have different brands of olive oil if anyone is interested.

In particular I trust the Costco Kirkland brand to honestly be 100% EVOO, not diluted with other oils.  Same for Costco honey (despite the recent issue of the local honey not being 100% local, it was still 100% honey).  It's a shame that some many places we can't count on what we buy being truly what they say it is.
This is as good quote as any to jump back in. I have three smaller bottles I decant my EVOO into. Two are 8-10 oz. bottles with drippers. I leave one plain and add a couple drops of organic lemon extract to the other. The third is a fancy, tall bottle with a screw top. They sit in a brass container on my counter where they get constant use. The rest of the bottle goes into the deep recesses of the pantry for future refills. The unopened bottles, as you know, now live in the wine fridge.

I got the honey notice. I chose to ignore it. My brother works for the Costco. Also, I worked for Nordstron for a decade. I took back so much stuff for so many ridiculous reasons that I tend to avoid shades-of-grey returns. I don't disagree with your logic, I'm just not that upset about it.

Recently, I had the second bag of a twin pack of shredded cheese get moldy. I returned it, expecting credit for a single bag, but they readily offered a full refund, which I accepted. I consider myself more than square with them.

Re:Vanilla. Apparently the vanilla bean farms in Madagascar were hit by devastating storms a few years ago, driving prices way up. Costco sells house brand 1.75 liters of Vodka and vanilla beans. I can make a lot of vanilla with very little effort and not much money. I always have one 1.75 liter aging and one I'm actively using.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1431 on: September 17, 2022, 03:28:23 AM »
Dicey I have made vanilla as you described years ago, and it was really good! I don't bake much so vanilla isn't something I need much of, but it was fun making my own and it was wonderful. Maybe you could post your recipe for those who might be inclined to make it.

I also worked for a R&D company that made food products and we bought our vanilla that came from Madagascar. It was probably back in the middle 1990's there was also some storm that wiped out vanilla bean crops and we had to find a replacement. That was not fun! We had to make a million recipes to find 'the one'. For industry, it is important to have a backup plan. Of course, with industry, cost is always a determining factor. If they can save a penny, they will choose and ingredient that costs less and is probably not as good as an ingredient they would like to use.

Dicey

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1432 on: September 17, 2022, 09:47:27 AM »
Dicey I have made vanilla as you described years ago, and it was really good! I don't bake much so vanilla isn't something I need much of, but it was fun making my own and it was wonderful. Maybe you could post your recipe for those who might be inclined to make it.

I also worked for a R&D company that made food products and we bought our vanilla that came from Madagascar. It was probably back in the middle 1990's there was also some storm that wiped out vanilla bean crops and we had to find a replacement. That was not fun! We had to make a million recipes to find 'the one'. For industry, it is important to have a backup plan. Of course, with industry, cost is always a determining factor. If they can save a penny, they will choose and ingredient that costs less and is probably not as good as an ingredient they would like to use.
I don't really have a recipe. Slit beans lengthwise, drop into good vodka*, shake, let steep in a cool, dark place, turn occasionally. Three months later, voila!

I use it in oatmeal, and lots of other things. It also makes nice gifts.

*The basic Costco vodka, is good enough for me and costs about $15 for 1.75 liters. PSA, Costco Vanilla has dropped from 32.99 to 12.00. Used to be 7.99, but still a huge improvement.

SotI

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1433 on: September 17, 2022, 12:51:23 PM »
As a cultural pessimist, I do expect further supply chain issues in the EU due to the energy cost issue. So, we are stocked up to cover 6-8 months on food, pet stuff and other basics (incl fuel). Not quite pandemic hoarding, but as we don't expect inflation to weaken for another year or two, we decided to cover our bases. This means we pulled both some renovations forward that we had planned a couple of years down the line, and we also ensure we are properly stocked up for any further supply chain issue.

I am talking from central European perspective, not US, but seriously shops are starting to look here at times like I remember from communist times: limited options, emptying shelves, prices rising.


K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1434 on: September 17, 2022, 06:45:16 PM »
K_in_the_kitchen I saw you mentioned you were not going to continue with Butcher Box. Is there a particular reason. I have had some really good experiences but a few bad ones too. When I report that the meat is not good, they always seem to refund me. We are just two people and I think if I was trying to feed a family, I would find it too expensive. For two, it works out pretty good. I have to say, I do not mind paying the price of the meat all that much. I watched a tv show on these people who travel around the country and find interesting places to eat at. They featured this restaurant in Michigan. They didn't talk prices on the show so afterwards, I looked up the menu. One hamburger was $20 and if you wanted cheese, it was $2 extra! I am not sure if it came with French fries or not but that is pretty expensive! Then I look at the prices of Butcher Box and calculate prices and nowhere near as bad as restaurant prices! I know they have overhead, but I would rather eat at home anyway! This particular restaurant was super expensive. A rib eye was around $36, and a fillet mignon was around $42! Most items on the menu were ala cart. So, you had to buy your salad, meat and sides separately. By the time you had your meal, an appetizer, dessert, a couple of cocktails and tip, you are probably talking a $300 dinner for two! The cocktails were super expensive too. Who are these people who can afford this! I feel like I eat like a king buying my meat thru Butcher box. However, i also buy some hamburgers thru QVC and it is the Rastelli brand which is very upscale. QVC offers free shipping too. I have bought meat, online, thru Costco too. I am very happy with my purchases. There are other places that I have bought meat too and have been very good.

We've decided that ButcherBox is just too expensive for what it is, and that our dollars are better used elsewhere.  Our youngest transferring to the state school and living at home again is certainly part of it -- we probably use twice as much meat despite having only one extra person here.  With that being the case, I'm cooking more ground meat and pot roasts, and less steak.  I'm also just tired of having to get with them for all of the issues.  I expect a 20 ounce or 24 ounce roast to weigh close to 20 or 24 ounces, not 16, or at least to have the meat equal out in weight with a heavier one to balance out the light one.  I've received several sirloin cap roasts, which are supposed to weight 24 ounces, come in barely over a pound, and the weight is right there on the package.  I bulk bought their pork breakfast sausage and there isn't a package I cook that we aren't pulling pieces of cartilage/bone out of our mouths.  Some steaks are great, some aren't, and it's disappointing to cook the tough, grisly steaks when we have company over.

Our regional chain has great meat.  It isn't grass-fed, but I've stopped prioritizing that for now.  I'm working on keeping a food budget that will be sustainable once DH stops working, and I want to have money to donate to hunger causes.  At the regional chain, I've recently bought USDA Choice chuck roasts for $3.99 per pound, and USDA Choice top sirloin steaks for $4.99 per pound.  Another supermarket had USDA Choice sirloin cap (picahna/coulotte) for $4.99 per pound, and it was much better than the ButcherBox sirloin cap.  This week they have $4.99 tri-tip, but I'm going to pass since the freezer is full.

If/when we go back to grass-fed beef we'll buy from a rancher in the region, so that the money goes directly to the family producing the meat and not a big company.  It will be raised here in CA, as well.  But I don't think that will be while I'm feeding young adults.


K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1435 on: September 17, 2022, 06:58:17 PM »
This is as good quote as any to jump back in. I have three smaller bottles I decant my EVOO into. Two are 8-10 oz. bottles with drippers. I leave one plain and add a couple drops of organic lemon extract to the other. The third is a fancy, tall bottle with a screw top. They sit in a brass container on my counter where they get constant use. The rest of the bottle goes into the deep recesses of the pantry for future refills. The unopened bottles, as you know, now live in the wine fridge.

I got the honey notice. I chose to ignore it. My brother works for the Costco. Also, I worked for Nordstron for a decade. I took back so much stuff for so many ridiculous reasons that I tend to avoid shades-of-grey returns. I don't disagree with your logic, I'm just not that upset about it.

Recently, I had the second bag of a twin pack of shredded cheese get moldy. I returned it, expecting credit for a single bag, but they readily offered a full refund, which I accepted. I consider myself more than square with them.

Re:Vanilla. Apparently the vanilla bean farms in Madagascar were hit by devastating storms a few years ago, driving prices way up. Costco sells house brand 1.75 liters of Vodka and vanilla beans. I can make a lot of vanilla with very little effort and not much money. I always have one 1.75 liter aging and one I'm actively using.

Decanting out a small amount of olive oil and storing the rest away makes a lot of sense!  My kid goes through so much EVOO that I won't do it now, but I'll keep it in mind for if/when it's ever just two of us again.

At first I was going to ignore the honey notice, but then I thought maybe it's important for Costco to know that people do care about them being honest with their products.

I've had a second bag of cheese be moldy and it never occurred to me that they would issue a refund!

The last two bottles of vanilla I bought at Costco were $8.99 each, and I only just opened the first one.  I always say I'm going to make it, but even though vanilla beans have come down in price they are still pricey.  That makes me sad, because back in late 2010 I paid $27 for half a pound of grade A Madagascar vanilla beans.  I would put an entire bean's worth of vanilla seeds into hot chocolate for the four of us -- I could be completely extravagant with the beans!

Bartlebooth

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1436 on: September 19, 2022, 08:57:21 AM »
I have to say, I do not mind paying the price of the meat all that much. I watched a tv show on these people who travel around the country and find interesting places to eat at. They featured this restaurant in Michigan. They didn't talk prices on the show so afterwards, I looked up the menu. One hamburger was $20 and if you wanted cheese, it was $2 extra! I am not sure if it came with French fries or not but that is pretty expensive! Then I look at the prices of Butcher Box and calculate prices and nowhere near as bad as restaurant prices!

Comparing prices of meat you cook at home with the price of a prepared meal at a restaurant seems to be of little value.  And to compare to a restaurant that is glitzy enough to be featured on TV--even worse.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1437 on: September 29, 2022, 02:44:17 AM »

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1438 on: September 29, 2022, 10:03:36 AM »
Looks like turkeys are in short supply this Thanksgiving.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/thanksgiving-2022-turkey-prices-rise-report_n_6333f8c7e4b0e376dbf0fa25

It will be interesting to see what Aldi does.  With all of the reports of shortages and higher prices last year, Aldi still sold their turkeys cheap.  This certainly does help explain the difficulty in getting high quality turkey deli meat -- Costco is sold out on a regular basis, or maybe they aren't even getting it in.

Turkey isn't on the Thanksgiving menu for us, despite both DH and I having been raised with it as a tradition.  It turns out that other than DH, we don't really like turkey and DH doesn't care if we don't have it.  We've had beef the past two Thanksgivings since it was just the four of us.  This year we'll likely gather with family again (depending on what Covid is doing), and several family members are vegetarian.  It might be easier to do a fancy pasta dish.

GuitarStv

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1439 on: September 29, 2022, 10:07:34 AM »
Looks like turkeys are in short supply this Thanksgiving.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/thanksgiving-2022-turkey-prices-rise-report_n_6333f8c7e4b0e376dbf0fa25

Thanksgiving in October wins again!  We always get first pick of the available birds.  :P

Cranky

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1440 on: September 29, 2022, 10:48:49 AM »
We had chicken legs for dinner last night because that was the only chicken Aldi had out, and there was NO ground beef.

I've been wondering about ham - I haven't seen hams out anyplace for ages, and I'd buy one if I did because I like to put the leftovers in soup.

OTOH, those cabinets everyone likes at Aldi are marked down to the $20 range...

K_in_the_kitchen

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1441 on: September 29, 2022, 01:41:59 PM »
We had chicken legs for dinner last night because that was the only chicken Aldi had out, and there was NO ground beef.

I've been wondering about ham - I haven't seen hams out anyplace for ages, and I'd buy one if I did because I like to put the leftovers in soup.

OTOH, those cabinets everyone likes at Aldi are marked down to the $20 range...

Wow, I went to my Aldi yesterday and the meat section was completely stocked, but it was 10 a.m. on the first day of the weekly ad.  I haven't seen a lot of shortages at Aldi lately, although the corned beef hash has been out of stock more than it has been in stock.  Wouldn't matter to me except my youngest loves it.  Oh, and they didn't have any tortellini, either.  Eggs were $2.53 per dozen.

Have any of you heard of this woman Jordan Page, who claims to have invented "shelf cooking", which we all know as pantry cooking (or a similar name), and clearly she isn't the first person to come up with the idea 🙄.  She has two websites, Shelf Cooking, and Fun, Cheap, or Free.  She runs an annual challenge called "Shelftember".  While her ideas are absolutely not new, I have to commend her for encouraging families to spend between $25 - $50 per week on groceries in September, no matter the family size.  It's a nice reset and shows people that they have more food in their homes than they think.  I decided to stay under her budget for perishables and things we ran out of, but not to give up buying things that are on good sale for stocking up just because of an arbitrary number.  The sales on USDA Choice chuck roasts have continued, and I'm buying them as I have room in the freezer.  There's no way I would put that off, hoping they are on sale again in November.  This year my goal is plan ahead, and get enough chuck roasts for eating through fall and winter, as well as some to cook and then freeze as beef stew for easy reheat meals.

Dicey

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coppertop

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1443 on: September 30, 2022, 08:04:44 AM »
The Aldi closest to us has had a lot of empty shelves lately; notably the vegan "meat substitute" items, such as tofu, meatless meatballs, and veggie burgers; almond milk; and frozen potatoes (shredded hash browns).  Those are all staple items for us.  I have no idea about their meat selection, because I don't buy it.  They're also often short on canned beans, especially chickpeas and cannellini beans. That particular Aldi has also not had many of the Aldi Finds featured in their ads. I've gone to Lidl instead the last two shopping trips and have found almost everything on my list.

Cranky

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1444 on: September 30, 2022, 08:15:20 AM »
My Aldi has been bare of pasta - pretty much any pasta - for a couple of months. I stock up when it goes on sale elsewhere.

We have millions of grocery stores here, so it's just a mild inconvenience, but it's interesting to see how the supply chain is still in flux.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1445 on: September 30, 2022, 09:20:05 AM »
For those of you who don't mind store brands, Target has 1 lb. boxes of their brand pasta for $0.95 cents. I stocked up on it a while back. I have probably a years' worth of various pastas. If you buy the 32 oz packages of certain pasta's I think they are $1.59 a box.

TomTX

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1446 on: October 01, 2022, 12:35:35 PM »
Looks like turkeys are in short supply this Thanksgiving.
Well, that will encourage me to dig one out from the bottom of the deep freeze...

I like hot turkey. I like cold turkey. I like turkey on sandwiches. I like to take the bones, skin, neck, etc and make quarts of a great stock.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1447 on: October 01, 2022, 04:29:52 PM »
I like what TomTX likes too!

TomTX

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1448 on: October 01, 2022, 04:58:39 PM »
I like what TomTX likes too!
I feel honored! Enjoy your many direct and indirect turkey consumption methods!

Money Saver 1

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Re: Pandemic hoarding
« Reply #1449 on: October 25, 2022, 04:10:41 AM »
Question...has anyone else noticed an explosion of hoarding behaviors in friends, family, neighbors?  I'm talking crazy stockpiling that would last regular folks years?  For example, 30 to 40 cans of condensed soup in the pantry when you've never seen this person eat soup?
I won't even go to paper towels or toilet paper or Clorox products.
Specific examples would be appreciated (and fun)!

I'm about to start stockpiling dry store foods such as 50 lb bags of rice and beans, but I call it inflation hoarding.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!